"It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus than is worshipped by the Mormons or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (B.P. Brockbank, The Ensign, May 1977, p. 26)
ATONEMENT in Garden of Gethsemane
"What happened in that garden, was the greatest single
DAVEH: DavidM..This was my pleading post you so blithely ignored
in my impassioned times of despair during the Season of Giving, when you
gave so little to those of us who desperately needed your adulation so
much.
(BTW...I am sorely tempted to save this for a
more appropriate season
God's covenant with HK is unilateral. God's love
and forgiveness are unconditional. Forgiveness preceeds repentance. All of HK is
included in the Incarnation.Blessings, Lance
- Original Message -
From:
Terry Clifton
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 19, 2004 15:07
Bill, you don't play fair. You must havefiles of
my quotes so you can pull them out and use them by themselves (out of
context). This list is called truth talk and Jesus' words (my focus) are
truth. You have been asked more than oncefor proof that Polyani was
a believer. I know that I
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]God's
covenant with HK is unilateral. God's love and forgiveness are
unconditional. Forgiveness preceeds repentance. All of HK is included
in the Incarnation.Blessings, Lance
jt: Do we have the same Bible? God DOES NOT have
a covenant with
fallen
No Bill, we are not on the same page; you are playing
theological word
games and I'm not. Our words either harmonize
with the Word of God
or they don't. Your doctrine of this
"all-inclusive" incarnation does not.
It adds to God's Truth and is heretical. He
(Jesus) was a SPOTLESS LAMB
God's covenant, through Abraham (with all of HK) is
indeed unilateral (not bilateral). God's forgiveness love through the
Incarnate, obedient Israelite Jesus is unconditional and inclusiveness (not
exclusive).These (FL) preceed repentance.Though I have several times
found myself consigned
Judy: At least you're an equal opportunity critic
of doctrine. One cannot help but be impressed with your passion for Him and for
His Gospel. Praise God for such as yourself, Judy.Lance
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 20,
Lance Muir wrote:
God's covenant, through Abraham
(with all of HK) is indeed unilateral (not bilateral). God's
forgiveness love through the Incarnate, obedient Israelite Jesus
is unconditional and inclusiveness (not exclusive).These (FL)
preceed repentance.
Good morning Judy,
I have no heart to argue with you so this
shall be my last post on this topic. I actually feel pretty exhausted by
it all. I have great respect for your incredible knowledge of scripture;
I just wish you could see the spirit that comes across in your words. It
would
Hi Terry,
Why would something that only God can give
(forgiveness) be dependent on something humans can only give
(repentance)? Why make God dependent and restricted by humankind?
God is overly capable of forgiving without repentance. If we say
otherwise than I think it says that we
Good, I'm glad to know that. I apologize for having
suggested otherwise.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Dave
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 11:23
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] When do the
unborn have a spirit and soul?
Wm. Taylor wrote:
Judy, I have not been waiting to set you up. All I
had to do was a search with your name and the name of these gents and there it
was. My point is this, Judy, you evidently do not know how harsh and critical
you sound. You constantly say you are not angry andyou do not judge, but
your words
Jonathan Hughes wrote:
Hi Terry,
Why would
something that only God can give
(forgiveness) be dependent on something humans can only give
(repentance)? Why make God dependent and restricted by humankind?
God is overly capable of forgiving without repentance. If we say
- Original Message -
From: Wm. Taylor
To: Lance Muir
Sent: April 20, 2004 09:14
Subject: Re: Language-Syntax-Semantics as they relate
to:
Good stuff. I think this would be a great exercise.
Why not go ahead and propose it.
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Judy Taylor wrote:
a) A covenant by nature requires the death
of both parties.
DAVEH: I'm lost on this one, Judy. Would you be so kind as to explain
why you believe such, please?
--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you
Okay,David, so we dont know if you came out of a
2-cell or an 8-cell, implanted or pre-implanted zygote. We dont even
know for sure if you are a twin because your mothers egg cell divided
due to genetic predisposition, or if she just hiccoughed after eating too much
popcorn at the movies.
Why do you think the Lord didn't use Joseph's genes, miraculously implanted?
Wasn't Jesus also a descendant of Joseph's lineage? Izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 8:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OR, perhaps he was saying that sometimes
people can be so darned dense that even an arrow couldnt penetrate their
thick skulls??? Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wm. Taylor
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 8:27
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
Oh, Jonathan, welcome back (I think it
was g who unsubscribed you.) What a great idea you had! Can
everyone on TT submit just three book titles that were inspirational or important
in our own lives? (The Bible not included, as we will assume that is already
Number One.) Ill have to
Possible, I guess, but I think the lineage was counted through Joseph's
adoption of Jesus.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:03 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] When do the unborn have a spirit and soul?
Why
Sorry, but I guess youll have to
cast me out as a heretic for saying this. (It wont be the first time, so
it doesnt bother me.) But I dont think that forgiveness
preceeds repentance, if that means were are forgiven before we repent,
or even if we do not repent. I think that repentance is a
Oh
boy! You have no idea how excited I get about reading lists. One of
the first things I do with any book (after looking at the covers) is check if
there are notes/bibliography attached. I always read that first.
Next I hit the index checking for certain topics that interest me as well as
Terry, Youre SO right on! J Izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 7:35
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism
Jonathan Hughes wrote:
Hi Terry,
Why would something that only
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hughes Jonathan
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:29
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Recommended reading
Oh boy! You have no idea how excited
I get about reading lists. One of the first things
I'll kick it off with one of my favorites: Adler,
Mortimer J Van Doren, Charles How to Read a Book. The classic Guide to
Intelligent reading. Touchstone, 1967 If you don't purchase this book then,
while browsing just read the table of contents. Lance
- Original Message -
From:
Thanks, Lance. Ill read it if youll
give us two more books! Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:03
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Recommended reading
I'll kick it off with one of
I'm confused, Jonathan, is there any other way to
start a book! This is so cool. I get immediately suspicious of a book that does
not have a name and subject index. It had better have been
highlyrecommended by a trusted friend, because I have to really want to
read the book to go any
Go ahead, Lance, post a quote. Let's see where it
takes us.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 7:34
AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Language-Syntax-Semantics as they relate to:
- Original
Three
great choices Bill! Books are friends to me. I have had chronic
fatigue syndrome for the last 14 years. In the time that I was partially
bed-ridden and most friends were busy being teenagers books were a solace to
me. It seems a bit silly perhaps, but I treat my books with a lot of
We most assuredly are. We ought to be more careful
about throwing the word heresy around. After we ALL know in part. Blessings,
Lance
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 20, 2004 10:23
Subject: [TruthTalk]
DaveH may believe there was NO sexual contact;
But LDS Apostles, Prophets and the Church educational system has published books to the contrary."Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good, I'm glad to know that. I apologize for having suggested otherwise.
Bill
- Original Message -
Hi Judy, (and Izzy please see my comments below)
I certainly do not mind pointing you to someone who put into words a
representation of my thoughts better than I could have written them myself.
When I read Bill's post I was happy that I could point you to an explanation
that would have been
Lance, this is truly a powerful piece of writing.
You say so much here and you are so right. I hope everyone will read it and
begin to digest it statement by statement. You have profoundly nailed it. Great
job.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: Wm. Taylor
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Hi Judy, (and Izzy
please see my comments below) I certainly do not mind pointing you to someone
who put into words arepresentation of my thoughts better than I could have
written them myself. When I read Bill's post I was happy that I could point you
to an
Sherrie, Thanks for having the courage and faith to come forward and start
posting on TT!!! I'm sure you have a lot to add to the colorful
personalities here. I guess if you want to invite some friends to join in
you'll just have to explain that we aren't quite as polite as new folks you
meet at
Men talk theology while women live it. Blessings, Lance
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 20, 2004 15:36
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Being and Nature of the Unborn Child
Sherrie, Thanks for having the courage and faith to
LOL! Lance, you're sounding more and more like a sage old Chinaman. :-) Izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 1:45 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Being and Nature of the Unborn
In a message dated 4/20/2004 9:57:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ELSMANLAW writes:
I will say that with several of my children, I knew that they were
conceived at the very moment when the egg was fertilized. Nevertheless,
I don't tie that knowing and perception with the fact that they had
received
Izzy wrote:
Why do you think the Lord didn't use Joseph's genes,
miraculously implanted? Wasn't Jesus also a descendant
of Joseph's lineage?
Have you ever considered Jeremiah 22:30, and the fact that Jeconiah was
an ancestor of Joseph but not of Mary? This would be evidence in my
mind that
Jim, if this post was a general post to your mail list, please remove
truthtalk from it. It contains ad hominem attacks as shown below, which are
not welcome on TT.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] WHO WILL RISE UP TO REBUKE LUTHERANS BEFORE LUTHER
In a message dated 4/20/2004 8:35:43 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jonathan Hughes wrote:
Hi Terry,
Why would something that only God can give (forgiveness) be dependent on something humans can only give (repentance)? Why make God dependent and restricted by
In a message dated 4/20/2004 9:43:40 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
By the way Izzy I owe you an email on why I am interested in natural/alternative health.Good!
I am interested in your response also. Laura
Lance wrote:
God's forgiveness ... is unconditional
I agree with the idea that God could forgive unconditionally if he
wanted to. In other words, God has the power and ability to forgive
unconditionally. The real question is whether or not He does. I do not
think he does. I believe that
Nope, I hadn't really ever thought of that, I can honestly say. Izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 4:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] When do the unborn have a spirit and
Calvin's
Institutes.. , partic Vol. 1; also, Luther's Table Talk and
commentaries on Romans and Galatians
G ~ P
235
David Miller wrote:
Do you really think God is blind to your sin?
Do others here who believe in the
Christians-continue-to-sin theology also think
that the atonement means that God does not see
your sin? From my perspective, this defies
reality. This is pure fantasy.
John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:31:13 -0400 "David
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I believe that Jesus.. reveal[s] ..the
nature of God concerning how he administers forgiveness.
But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law
muttered, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.."
[JC
Hi John. After reading your post, it is very clear that we have
different personalities and different ways that we approach truth. I'm
going to comment on your post, but only to help explain where I am
coming from. I don't expect you to appreciate me much, but it is who I
am and it might help
David Miller wrote:
THE BIBLE IS TRUE
Lance wrote:
Because of what you may be meaning when you write
this, I'd like some clarification.
I believe that the Bible is God's Word and leads us to truth. I'm not
sure what kind of clarification you are looking for.
Peace be with you.
David
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]God's
covenant with HK is unilateral. God's love and forgiveness
are unconditional. Forgiveness preceeds repentance. All of HK is
included in the Incarnation.Blessings, Lance
jt: This is your particular theology Lance, it's not
Bible. God has no
open
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]God's
covenant, through Abraham (with all of HK) is indeed unilateral
(not bilateral). God's forgiveness love through the Incarnate,
obedient
Israelite Jesus is unconditional and inclusiveness (not exclusive).
jt: How can you completely ignore the "Ifs,
From: "Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Judy, I have not been waiting to set you up. All I
had to do was a search with your name and the name of these gents and there it
was. My point is this, Judy, you evidently do not know how harsh and critical
you sound.
jt: Just as 'beauty is in the eye
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Lance
wrote:God's forgiveness ... is unconditional
davidm: I agree with the idea that God could forgive unconditionally if he
wanted to. In other words, God has the power and ability to forgive
unconditionally. The real question is whether or not He
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]The Nature
of God and God's Gospel. Each time we speak we reveal our
apprehension of these(NOGGG). We do so using language.
When we employ language (a symbolic system) we first demonstrate just
how blunt an instrument it actually is. Even the more
Hi Judy,
It appears my last post did not go through. Ill try again.
I had mentioned that getting my thoughts into written words was not my gift.
This is glaringly obvious.
When I said it has also been the reason Ive been hesitant to send in posts to
TT I was talking about my confidence in
[
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The following article is located
at:http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/116/22.0.htmlThe Dick Staub Interview: Exegeting U2Get Up Off Your Knees preaches
Dear Truth Talk Subscribers:
Joyous New Moon Greetings (see Isaiah 66) in the Matchless Name of YahShua (Jesus)!!!
A couple of days ago, Brother Chris informed me that he posted my article on Romans
7 to this forum and got two negative reactions. I then inquired what forum this
was
G, we may never agree on Polanyi. I know we share a
great respect for Calvin and his Institutes. And U2 has long been one of my
favorite groups. Maybe two out of three ain't bad?
Thanks for sharing this.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL
WARNING TO ALL:
BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS.
This same Lee had prophesied that I would die at the beginning of the new
year (after Jan.1 2004), he were reminded it was the Jewish New Year. Well,
that has come a gone, with this among MANY FALSE PROPHECIES, so take (HIS
WORD) not mine, DISCARD THIS
Greetings Daniel.
If you remember, you were on this forum, TruthTalk, several years ago.
You were never banned from TruthTalk, but you left on your own accord
after being with us for some time. This was before you developed a
reputation as a false prophet. You are welcome here as long as you
Kevin Deegan wrote:
DaveH may believe there was NO sexual contact;
But LDS Apostles, Prophets and the Church educational system has
published books to the contrary.
DAVEH: Give us the quotes, Kevin. If they don't specifically say
"physical contact" or "sexual intercourse", then your
DAVEH: Note to DavidM...Oooops! I failed to send this note prior
to forwarding my request to become a moderator back before Christmas.
Hmmm.guess that detracts from the effect, eh! Sorry 'bout that,
DavidM. :-[
David Miller wrote:
Hey, did I miss something here? You asked me
In a message dated 4/20/2004 9:24:20 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Sorry, but I guess youll have to cast me out as a heretic for saying this. (It wont be the first time, so it doesnt bother me.) But I dont think that forgiveness preceeds repentance, if that means were are
Laura, you always make sense. :-) Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:21
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Forgiveness/Repentance
In a message dated 4/20/2004 9:24:20 AM
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