RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement
-Original Message- From: David Miller Sent: Wednesday, 05 January, 2005 10.00 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement *slade snipped a bunch to talk about later* DAVID M I believe that a prophet who speaks in the name of the Lord must be error free in the messages that he declares to be a word from the Lord. A man or woman who commits error in such a message is a false prophet. Nevertheless, prophets do not always speak in this way. Prophets do not cease to be men or women who no longer need to study, so the idea that they are always right in their opinions or exegesis of Scriptures is not true. I might note also that some prophets do not even study the Scriptures. There are many different types of prophets, both in OT and NT times. The prophets Abraham, Moses, David, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and John the Baptist all functioned differently. David ministered prophetically primarily through song. Ezekiel through pantomine. Moses through leadership and mighty miracles. John the Baptist without either miracle or many great prophetic statements concerning the future (other than the all important one concerning the appearance of Messiah in his generation). SLADE In the first paragraph, you qualify a message given as the word from the LORD must be error free. This is true. You then state prophets do not always speak in this way. Lastly, you say that prophets are men who err. Ok. I can agree to a point because even Elijah needed assurance from the LORD that he was not the last of his kind (you know the story about the 4000 who never bent a knee). Here's where the problem arises. I know many who claim the prophetic gift, but never proclaim anything. I hear the declaration I AM A PROPHET as if they deserve my reverence, yet they never speak a word from the LORD. It's easy to be error free if you never give a word. The, of course you have the complete jag-off who throws the a word from the lord around like it's candy at a parade and the consistency of their error is shocking! Those are the JERKS that need to be stoned, wiped from the message boards, and surgically altered to never speak or write again. So which are you!?! The never give a word type, an occasional word type, or the always a word type? Are you willing to test the mettle of your prophetic gift? Second paragraph later. -- slade -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
In a message dated 1/6/2005 9:21:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: such seldom is the case in my case. We do know that tongue in cheek is illustrated above? J
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
Mormons are generally nice people SADLY anyone that follows official Mormon Doctrine could not possibly be a CHRISTIAN --- Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: AhI doubt that will be a problem now, Kay. I believe TT has matured a bit in the recent past. I would think that if anybody has a problem with you associating with Mormons or even saying a few nice things about them, it would be more their problem than yours. Slade Henson wrote: Because I've read some of the problems with Mormons here. K. -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of *Dave Hansen *Sent:* Wednesday, 05 January, 2005 09.51 *To:* TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org *Subject:* Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 DAVEH: ??? Why do you consider this as /going out on a limb/, Kay? Slade Henson wrote: Interesting article. I'll go out on a limb...a lawyer I know is a Mormon in Utah, as well as my naturopath. They're both awesome people. So is my next door neighbor and her family. I know she has been treated pretty badly by her fiance's family and can't figure out why. Kay -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
Kevin: Good to see you back again - tell us where you've been? Missed you and your zeal for the truth, judyt On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 13:48:57 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mormons are generally nice people SADLY anyone that follows official Mormon Doctrine could not possibly be a CHRISTIAN --- Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: AhI doubt that will be a problem now, Kay. I believe TT has matured a bit in the recent past. I would think that if anybody has a problem with you associating with Mormons or even saying a few nice things about them, it would be more their problem than yours. Slade Henson wrote: Because I've read some of the problems with Mormons here. K. -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of *Dave Hansen *Sent:* Wednesday, 05 January, 2005 09.51 *To:* TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org *Subject:* Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 DAVEH: ??? Why do you consider this as /going out on a limb/, Kay? Slade Henson wrote: Interesting article. I'll go out on a limb...a lawyer I know is a Mormon in Utah, as well as my naturopath. They're both awesome people. So is my next door neighbor and her family. I know she has been treated pretty badly by her fiance's family and can't figure out why. Kay -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement
In a message dated 1/7/2005 2:54:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Those are the JERKS that need to be stoned, wiped from the message boards, and surgically altered to never speak or write again. LOL -- I gotta admit. John "surgically altered" LOL
Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement
In a message dated 1/7/2005 5:10:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: LOL -- I gotta admit. John "surgically altered" LOL I'm still laughing maybe a red beer or two before you write that second paragraph. I did ask David what would be an acceptable test for his claim. Still waiting for an answer. Not a big deal to me, however. I have seen a number of prophets - they are numerous in the pentecostal tradition. Absolutely none of them were consisted correct in their several prophecies -- some were surprisingly accuratewhile others missed the mark entirely. Most "prophetic words" (actually, all such utterances I have heard over the years) given in a church settings are general words of praise or warning -- nothing specific. John
RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Wednesday, 05 January, 2005 10.00 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement DAVIDM There are many different types of prophets, both in OT and NT times. The prophets Abraham, Moses, David, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and John the Baptist all functioned differently. David ministered prophetically primarily through song. Ezekiel through pantomine. Moses through leadership and mighty miracles. John the Baptist without either miracle or many great prophetic statements concerning the future (other than the all important one concerning the appearance of Messiah in his generation). SLADE You claim these prophets all functioned differently. Why? I see their function as identical! You have spoken of Ezekiel's pantomime and David's shirim. You see different function here while I understand this as different modes/genres by which they prophesied. Their function -- the intent of the prophesy -- is identical. THIS is the function you contradicted in your email that prompted my response. (You will notice I have not elucidated the function; this is an innate understanding in the prophet and I would like to hear your take on this singular function of the prophet.) However, there is a grace I can give since you are not a prophet [from my limited understanding] and I do not wish to embarrass you or anyone else. You see, we all have Yeshua dwelling within us, and Yeshua IS the spirit of prophesy. This prophetic nuance of the Spirit of the Holy One can often confuse a believer into thinking they are a prophet... when in fact, they're feeling just what everyone else experiences... a nonverbal response to this prophetic nuance. -- slade -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
In a message dated 1/7/2005 2:25:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kevin: Good to see you back again - tell us where you've been? Missed you and your zeal for the truth, judyt On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 13:48:57 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mormons are generally nice people SADLY anyone that follows official Mormon Doctrine could not possibly be a CHRISTIAN Interesting as an opening line or is it an opening volley? JD
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
Kevin Deegan wrote: Mormons are generally nice people SADLY anyone that follows official Mormon Doctrine could not possibly be a CHRISTIAN DAVEH: Not only do I respectfully disagree with you on that, Kevin, but I am sad that you feel that way.:-( However, perhaps you define Christian differently than I do. How do you define it so that it excludes LDS folks, Kevin? --- Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: AhI doubt that will be a problem now, Kay. I believe TT has matured a bit in the recent past. I would think that if anybody has a problem with you associating with Mormons or even saying a few nice things about them, it would be more their problem than yours. Slade Henson wrote: Because I've read some of the problems with Mormons here. K. Behalf Of *Dave Hansen *Sent:* Wednesday, 05 January, 2005 09.51 *To:* TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org *Subject:* Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 DAVEH: ??? Why do you consider this as /going out on a limb/, Kay? Slade Henson wrote: Interesting article. I'll go out on a limb...a lawyer I know is a Mormon in Utah, as well as my naturopath. They're both awesome people. So is my next door neighbor and her family. I know she has been treated pretty badly by her fiance's family and can't figure out why. Kay -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Christianity is a crime in America
How Christianity Became a Crime in America: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42268 (from WorldNetDaily) Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
Just for the record, the following are some of those things I brought into this forum and where I am now. I would be interested in a similar contruct from any and all.
Those words above were the first words of what I thought would be a list issues. Instead, writing this line after writing the following (below) , the Lord has led me to a statement of faith of sorts and it is ..
. Water baptism: for me, the last of the great Mohicans as regards my works salvationist upbring. I believed that works AND faith carried equal weight. That changed shortly before I came to this list. And at the time I came onto this list, I believed that God had two considerations in His thinking on salvation: 1) that the condition of the heart carried more weight in the soteriological sense that any other consideration --- that salvation occured apart from obedience. A prayerful consideration of Ps 51 and Romans 2:8-29 showed me the basis for God's judgment in our lives and confirmed the above thinking; 2) that when this salvation is expressed in Jesus Christ -- we have confidence and definition in regard to our salvation. We know we are saved. The entire letter of I john is written with this purpose in mind -- that we might have confidence in our salvation. As luck would have it, where I was when I came to this forum was accidently correct, as far as it went.
(after coming to this list -- this is what happened next)
Sadly, I did not understand why this was so -- although I thought I did -- an accident. Paul's argument (Gal 3) that the Abrahmic promise was extended to Jesus Christ (as the seed, not of many but as of one v 16) opened the door to understanding that it is the faith of Christ that has secured (aorist, if you will) our salvation. When I combine this biblical fact with the idea that community is the very image of God, that we were created in this image, that not only attachment to others ("it is not good for man to be alone") but a profound and expressed caring for those "others" is the central issue in any definition of this Image, the conclusion if forced upon me in this wise: that Christ, in the flesh, was no less involved in this Image (of community) than before or after the incarnation event; that He (in the flesh) gives definition of "God" (and I changed verb tenses, here, intentionally for His was an action begun during the incarnation and extending to this very moment or any moment we call "now.") and my imitation of Him (to any degree) in deed and perhaps word has the benefit of a salvation already procured for me in the Christ of the Cross. I loose my salvation when I move to serve myself and in so doing, deny the very Image I am. I am destroyed in serving self.
My faith in Christ does not save me -- it gives me confidence and opens the door to an understanding of the soteriological process I am involved in as a human being -- knowingly or not. When the biblical message speaks of "saved," "being saved" and a future "salvation," it is demonstrating the process we are all involved in. The fact that "judgment day" is for all of mankind proves, to me, that this process is for us all and that we are all involved in it, like it or not --- whether they have heard of Christ or not - no matter what.
Water baptism? How did that figure in? Well, I used to believe that you had to be baptised to be saved. Now, and here is the change for me, I believe that anything I do, including water baptism however you define it (immersion or sprinkling, I do not care), and especially those things done in the name of the Lord, are acts that reveal God in Christ through me to others. I can preach it or I can simply perform. All is to the revealed glory and certainty of the Great God Almighty. So baptism saved me years ago, at age 12, because it was an _expression_ of the very faith of Christ Jesus Himself. He was even baptised !!! And now I am doing it that is salvation.
His life is mirrored in mine when I do what He did
His life is confirmed in mine when I do what He wills.
-- me --
How could this not be salvation?
And the "baptism" that really matters to me, is the one spoken of in Gal 3:26,27 -- a full immersion into Christ Himself.
"Work out your own salvation in fear and trembling for it is God at work in you both to will and to perform His good pleasure" (Phil 2:12,13). Why did Paul add "fear and trembling". The message is the same without this parenthetical. It is exactly the same, to me. So why? Because, if the performance of righteousness is act of community and its individual memership -- the pronouncement that it is God performing in us should bring to our mind a startled awareness that is manifest in fear and trembling. In this passage , Paul has suddenly put his readership in tune with that which is the Subtle Force behind their works of goodness. Suddenly -- there it is!! Community with God Himself. He has been there all the while. We have manifested
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
Slade Henson wrote: I actually have friends from all walks of faithsome with no walk at all. I figure they'll get there, someday. DAVEH: Hmmm.You don't sound like a typical Christian who believes in hell-fire and damnation stuff, Kay. Does that mean you live and let live without getting pushy about trying to change people? Kay -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Thursday, 06 January, 2005 02.48 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 DAVEH: AhI doubt that will be a problem now, Kay. I believe TT has matured a bit in the recent past. I would think that if anybody has a problem with you associating with Mormons or even saying a few nice things about them, it would be more their problem than yours. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . Water baptism: for me, the last of the great Mohicans as regards my works salvationist upbring. I believed that works AND faith carried equal weight. That changed shortly before I came to this list. And at the time I came onto this list, I believed that God had two considerations in His thinking on salvation: 1) that the condition of the heart carried more weight in the soteriological sense that any other consideration --- that salvation occured apart from obedience. DAVEH: ??? Do you believe one can be saved without obedience to repentance? John David Smithson Pastor and Bishop of Calfornia -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
In a message dated 1/7/2005 9:37:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Slade Henson wrote: I actually have friends from all walks of faithsome with no walk at all. I figure they'll get there, someday. DAVEH: Hmmm.You don't sound like a typical Christian who believes in hell-fire and damnation stuff, Kay. Does that mean you live and let live without getting pushy about trying to change people? Crouched as warriors, ready to pounce, we await Kay's answer. Will life for Kay change because of this response? Will her children have nothing left but fond memories?. Will she loose the respect of her mate for life? Will there be any place on TruthTalk? Stayed tune, my brethren. Back after this commercial break (din din) John John -- out (yes I have had at least one red beer, this evening)
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/7/2005 9:37:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Slade Henson wrote: I actually have friends from all walks of faithsome with no walk at all. I figure they'll get there, someday. DAVEH: Hmmm.You don't sound like a typical Christian who believes in hell-fire and damnation stuff, Kay. Does that mean you live and let live without getting pushy about trying to change people? Crouched as warriors, ready to pounce, we await Kay's answer. DAVEH: ??? I should hope not, John. I just got done telling Kay that I think TT has matured a bit lately! I do hope I'm not wrong about that. O:-) Will life for Kay change because of this response? Will her children have nothing left but fond memories?. Will she loose the respect of her mate for life? Will there be any place on TruthTalk? Stayed tune, my brethren. Back after this commercial break (din din) John John -- out (yes I have had at least one red beer, this evening) -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
In a message dated 1/7/2005 9:53:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: ??? I should hope not, John. I just got done telling Kay that I think TT has matured a bit lately! I do hope I'm not wrong about that. O:-) Me too. Time will tell. Jd
