> > Try writing the code to do what lstrip actually does
> > - its much harder. So the library includes the more
> > difficult function and lets you code the easy ones.
>
> def lstrip(string,chars=' ')
> string = list(string)
> t = 0
> for x in string:
> if x in chars:
>
> Just wondering if I should bite the bullet and code from scratch in
> Perl, or if my Python - Perl is Ok.
Its nearly always a bad idea to just translate code structures from
one language to another. It will usually be sub optimal and non
idiomatic - thus harder for the 'native' programmers to
un
Alan Gauld wrote:
[...]
1) I'll use Perl for the regex stuff from now on, Perl is obviously
built for this.
Yes, or PHP. Both have RE baked in.
Beware! Overcome the temptation!
Try this: http://kodos.sourceforge.net/
HTH ;-)
Wolfram
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> Beware! Overcome the temptation!
> Try this: http://kodos.sourceforge.net/
While I have no problem personally with Perl or PHP, I'll second the
recommendation for kodos -- it's very useful for learning to use
regexes in Python.
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> > How's Ruby? I bookmarked the homepage, but never got around to
looking
> > at it.
>
> Very, very nice. Cleanest object-orientedness I ever saw in a
language
> (not that I have that much experience -- people like Alan would
> probably be better judges than me on this).
You knew I couldn't resis
Patrick Hall wrote:
Beware! Overcome the temptation!
Try this: http://kodos.sourceforge.net/
While I have no problem personally with Perl or PHP, I'll second the
recommendation for kodos -- it's very useful for learning to use
regexes in Python.
Or, if you don't have Qt available, use the regular
On Feb 3, 2005, at 09:48, Alan Gauld wrote:
Pythons lambda feature is a bare minimum (and Guido wants to remove
it!).
Does he? Damn, just when I was learning functional programming! (in
Haskell, if you're curious ^^)
Yes the Japanese thing is an issue.
THere are a few English books now, and the
> code to run it on a different platform. But most existing Java projects
> have platform-specific versions, if only to make the GUI (try to) look
> native. You can spot a Java app from a hundred meters away.
> (then again, the same critic could be made of Python's and Perl's
> "standard
Well, here's my $0.02.
I would recommend caution regarding the trashing of
Perl. One thing I've been very impressed with on this list (and other
segments of the Python community) is the _fairly_ cordial relationship
between the supporters of the two languages. Contrast that to a lot
of PHP li
This is from a tutorial
"EXERCISE 3.9
Use the math library to write a program to print out
the sin and cos of numbers from 0 to 2pi in intervals
of pi/6. You will need to use the range() function."
Range won't let me use pi/6 as an incremator
is there some other way i can accomplish this task
> (I am an ex-perler gone clean. Been straight
for 5 years now with only
> the occasional work forced binges.)
>
> Perl was designed by a linguist. He wanted it to act like human language
> -- which is not very consistent.
And from what I gather, quite effective. :-)
> Personally, the thin
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 05:53:31 -0800 (PST), alieks laouhe
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is from a tutorial
>
> "EXERCISE 3.9
> Use the math library to write a program to print out
> the sin and cos of numbers from 0 to 2pi in intervals
> of pi/6. You will need to use the range() function."
>
>
Michael Janssen a écrit :
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 05:53:31 -0800 (PST), alieks laouhe
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is from a tutorial
"EXERCISE 3.9
Use the math library to write a program to print out
the sin and cos of numbers from 0 to 2pi in intervals
of pi/6. You will need to use the range() fun
Title: Message
Nicholas,
Well
put. I come from a physics FORTRAN background and when I decided to learn
C and start using it I heard the same arguments: it's too hard to
read.
It's a
silly argument to use against a language. It's like an English-only
speaker claiming he won't learn Gr
Hi Jeff,
> Well put. I come from a physics FORTRAN
background and when I
> decided to learn C and start using it I heard the same arguments:
> it's too hard to read.
>
> It's a silly argument to use against a language.
It's like an
> English-only speaker claiming he won't learn Greek becau
[the problem provided by alieks]
> >>"EXERCISE 3.9
> >>Use the math library to write a program to print out
> >>the sin and cos of numbers from 0 to 2pi in intervals
> >>of pi/6. You will need to use the range() function."
[Michael]
> > You _can_ do the exercise
> > with the range function but it
I once heard that Larry Wall said, "Perl is worse than Python because
people needed it worse".
And I've heard it said that "Perl is the Write-Only language"
Marilyn
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i came up with
z=0
while z<= 2*pi:
z=z+pi/6
print z
z=z+pi/6
"while" makes alot more sense than using range
i still don't know if its the most efficient way
to do it this is day two with python, im pushing 30hrs
straight lots of coffee and ciggarettes!
So far I really like python...alot. it's
alieks laouhe wrote:
i came up with
z=0
while z<= 2*pi:
z=z+pi/6
print z
z=z+pi/6
I don't think you're quite there. You are incrementing by pi/6 twice in the loop, so the printed
values will differ by pi/3. And the first value printed will be pi/6, not 0.
Where are you getting the value of p
sorry way off heh...
i think i'll sleep and try later.
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> >for x in string:
> >if x in chars:
> >string[i] = ''
>
> I just have a hangover from other languages, but I really wanted to
know
> how Python handles iteration over a variable which is being changed
> within the loop itself. Is the "for" condition evaluated in every
loo
from math import *
z=0
while z<=2*pi:
print cos(z)
z=z+(pi/6)
ok i think this is right...
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On Feb 3, 2005, at 18:17, alieks laouhe wrote:
So far I really like python...alot. it's so intuitive
I started trying to learn c but it's lack of intuitive
string handling made me shudder... so, i tried perl
and it was a breath of fresh air after c.
then i stumbled upon python. it's the most intuit
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
> >for x in string:
> >if x in chars:
> >string[i] = ''
>
> I just have a hangover from other languages, but I really wanted to know
> how Python handles iteration over a variable which is being changed
> within the loop itse
> But let's change it to what I think you were thinking of:
>
> ###
> def lstrip(string, chars):
> scratchspace = list(string) ## get a mutable list of characters
> for x in scratchspace:
> if x in chars:
> scratchspace[i] = ''
> return ''.join(scratchspace)
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, alieks laouhe wrote:
> from math import *
> z=0
> while z<=2*pi:
> print cos(z)
> z=z+(pi/6)
>
> ok i think this is right...
Hi Alieks,
This looks ok, and is probably the most straightforward way to do this.
For safety's sake, you may want to modify the top i
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Btw, I'm skeptical that the code below does what you want it to do. :-)
that was kind of my point. In python I just type the obvious and it
works. In Perl I have to muck with references, slashes, arrows and the
like. Every time I have had to write a nested datastructu
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 04:24:06 -0500, Patrick Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Beware! Overcome the temptation!
> > Try this: http://kodos.sourceforge.net/
>
> While I have no problem personally with Perl or PHP, I'll second the
> recommendation for kodos -- it's very useful for learning to use
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >
> > Btw, I'm skeptical that the code below does what you want it
to do. :-)
> >
>
> that was kind of my point. In python I just type the obvious and it
> works. In Perl I have to muck with references, slashes, arrows and
the
> like. Every time I have ha
From what I understand, range() no longer allows you to use floats as
arguments. (Or it gives you a deprication warning)
This tutorial must be old.
Not the only way, but.
import math
num = 0
while num <= 2*math.pi:
## Do stuff to figure pi/6 things
num = num + math.pi/6.0 ## Don't forget .
You can also iterate over a copy of the list and change the original.
i.e.
a = range(10)
for x in a[:]:
if x % 2 == 0:
a.remove(x)
print a
And yes, I did test it this time.
Jacob
>for x in string:
>if x in chars:
>string[i] = ''
I just have a hangover from other
I should have thought of that! Here I looked at the concept of generators,
what they can do, and totally overlooked a user defined range type function
that allows floats. Any reason why range doesn't? Is it for speed, or to
keep the arguments pure (without floating point errors)?
Jacob
There ar
Can anyone recommend to me a Python module to work with ID3v2 tags in Ogg
Vorbis files? I tried using the EyeD3 module, but it only supports mp3 right
now, and I couldn't get the pyid3tag module to work reliably, or I'm just not
understanding the documentation.
I just need to retrieve all of th
>num = num + math.pi/6.0 ## Don't forget .0 or you'll get an integer
the division operator returns a float when either of the operands are
floats -- in this case math.pi is, so you don't have to worry about
passing it 6.0 instead of 6
>>> import math
>>> math.pi
3.1415926535897931
>>> math.
Miles Stevenson wrote:
Can anyone recommend to me a Python module to work with ID3v2 tags in Ogg
Vorbis files? I tried using the EyeD3 module, but it only supports mp3 right
now, and I couldn't get the pyid3tag module to work reliably, or I'm just not
understanding the documentation.
I just nee
MessageI hate to be a spoiled sport and do exactly what you said to not do.
But I present two counter examples
1. The indentation IS the closure on flow statements. Indenting starts a
flow, then removing indentation on next line closes the flow. Again its all
about the language. If your English
Max Noel wrote:
On Feb 3, 2005, at 09:48, Alan Gauld wrote:
Pythons lambda feature is a bare minimum (and Guido wants to remove
it!).
Does he? Damn, just when I was learning functional programming! (in
Haskell, if you're curious ^^)
However, Python doesn't need lambdas to be able to write in
Jeff Shannon wrote:
However, Python doesn't need lambdas to be able to write in a functional
style. Functions are first-class objects and can be passed around quite
easily, and IIRC Python's list comprehensions were borrowed (though
probably with notable modification) from Haskell.
Note, it is
> > For the non-Perl people here, let me defend Perl by saying it is
> > VERY good at what it was built for and not so good (but passable)
at
> > what it was not built for.
> >
> > What it is good at:
> > Very rapid development of small scripts
> > Replacing sed/awk/ksh/etc for scripting
>
Jacob,
As I said I'm well aware of the defense of these peculiarities of Python
but I still disagree with them from a language design choice. That
doesn't stop me from learning and using and enjoying Python but I feel
that both of them introduce some instability to the langauge.
In only 6 months
Alan,
We'll just have to have to disagree about awk. I starting learning Perl
to avoid learning awk :-)
I also disagree about the symbology. I am never confused by it. In
fact, I find it clarifies the language although I agree its ugly.
When I see a random variable in Perl I can tell at a gla
On Feb 3, 2005, at 22:21, Smith, Jeff wrote:
Perl and Python both resist the introduction of a switch statement
which
I (and many others) feel is the most elegant way to express what it
does.
I echo that.
-- Max
maxnoel_fr at yahoo dot fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic crea
> I also disagree about the symbology. I am never confused by it.
I'll believe you, but its interesting that computer scientists
have done lots of studies to test people's comprehension of programs
and in every single case there has been clear evidence that
additional prefixes/characters etc
I think the point is that different people are...different. It probably
won't surprise you to find out that I am in the C camp that prefers your
second example. I'm sure what those studies show is what the "majority"
find easier not what "everyone" finds easier. Who knows, maybe it's a
left-brai
> Alan,
>
> We'll just have to have to disagree about awk. I starting learning Perl
> to avoid learning awk :-)
But awk is smaller and simpler than perl. So it should be faster
(esp. at startup) for small and simple tasks.
As usual: Right tool for right task.
> Jeff
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> haskell:
>
> [ x | x <- xs ]
> [ foo x | x <- xs, x > 2 ]
>
> python
>
> [ x for x in xs ]
> [ foo(x) for x in xs if x > 2 ]
>
Sean, what book/tutor are you using for Haskell?
I learned it from "The Haskell School of Expression" which
was OK but very graphics focused, I'd be interested in
> Perl and Python both resist the introduction of a switch statement
> which I (and many others) feel is the most elegant way to express
> what it does.
Interesting. What do you feel is the problem with elif?
Its not even much more typing and allows for much more
expressive test conditions. Swi
> We'll just have to have to disagree about awk.
> I starting learning Perl to avoid learning awk :-)
Really? Why for? awk is far easier to learn than Perl
- and far less generally capable! - but it makes Perl seem
positively verbose!
Alan G.
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Alan Gauld wrote:
There is no perfect language, and very few truly bad
languages - they never get out of the lab - they all
have something that they are good at and from which
we can learn!
Heh, I'd look at that a bit differently -- I think that there's a
*lot* of bad languages, it's just that we'
> second example. I'm sure what those studies show is what the
"majority"
> find easier not what "everyone" finds easier.
They are statistical its true, but they were based on the folks
who actually used the second style indent and they actually
got worse scores in the tests using their own style
On Feb 3, 2005, at 23:19, Alan Gauld wrote:
Sean, what book/tutor are you using for Haskell?
I learned it from "The Haskell School of Expression" which
was OK but very graphics focused, I'd be interested in
recommended second source on Haskell.
I'm not Sean, but I'm using Simon Thompson's "Haskell
On Feb 3, 2005, at 23:41, Jeff Shannon wrote:
(But then, at my job I'm stuck using a horrible Frankenstein's monster
of a proprietary language on a daily basis, so I can't help but
believe that there's plenty more awful languages around that didn't
happen to be "rescued" from oblivion by an acci
On Feb 3, 2005, at 23:41, Alan Gauld wrote:
The reasons for the K&R style of brace winning is to do
with the way the brain process structure and despite
the subjects stated preference for the 'Pascal' style
they still had lower perception scores.
Little nit-picking here:
if(foo)
{
bar()
Alan Gauld wrote:
However, Python doesn't need lambdas to be able to write in a
functional style.
I disagree Jeff. It does need lambdas to do FP properly, and
better lambdas than we have currently. What it doesn't need
is the lambda keyword and syntax - although pesonally I like
lambda since it is
Sorry, over paranoid. ;-)
Jacob
num = num + math.pi/6.0 ## Don't forget .0 or you'll get an integer
the division operator returns a float when either of the operands are
floats -- in this case math.pi is, so you don't have to worry about
passing it 6.0 instead of 6
import math
math.pi
3.14159
>I suppose that one might argue that I *still* just don't really get
>lambdas (and I wouldn't argue with that). I can see some advantages
>to small inline functions, though I suspect that a more-explicit
>currying mechanism (such as the proposed partial() higher-order
>function) could easily repla
Alan said -
> Its bad practice to delete a member in the collection being iterated
> but Python copes OK if you just change the current item.
Yeah, that's very bad. Makes for all sorts of subtle errors. I usually
do the iteration as a for i in range(len(someList) type thing, and
collect the indexe
On Thursday 03 February 2005 17:41, Alan Gauld wrote:
> In fact the best style of all is neither of the two I showed,
> its actually this - which early everyone hates when they see it!
>
> inf f(x)
> {
> bah()
> }
Ugh. Alan, I won't even try to dispute the study. But if I have to
wr
Although, (and this will be rough) a list comprehension would be
probably do the same thing
j=[1, 2,3,4, 5,6,7,8]
q = [if not item % 2 for item in j]
I really think I've got that 'if not item % 2' wrong, as I can't test
it, but I'd be hoping for
print q
[1, 3, 5, 7]
Backwards. ;-)
q = [item for it
Max Noel wrote:
On Feb 3, 2005, at 23:41, Jeff Shannon wrote:
(But then, at my job I'm stuck using a horrible Frankenstein's monster
of a proprietary language on a daily basis, so I can't help but
believe that there's plenty more awful languages around that didn't
happen to be "rescued" from obl
How about a concrete example where lambda is more elegant than a
named
block of code
aList=['a','bb','ccc','','ee']
bList=aList[:] #deep copy
assert not bList is aList
def sortByLength(item1,item2):
return cmp(len(item1),len(item2))
bList.sort(sortByLength)
assert bList==['a', 'bb', 'ee
I've tried this and I cannot figure out why this does not work. I
figure this has something to do with order of operations. I figured
someone would know exactly why it doesn't work. Wouldn't this start
inside parens then from left to right?
open(item,'w').write(open(item,'r').read().replace(
> >> Pythons lambda feature is a bare minimum (and Guido wants to
remove
> >> it!).
> However, Python doesn't need lambdas to be able to write in a
> functional style.
I disagree Jeff. It does need lambdas to do FP properly, and
better lambdas than we have currently. What it doesn't need
is the l
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