[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
We have discussed establishing a more formal relationship with developer representatives to help bring outside perspective and balance to our larger platform decisions. We are still a few quarters away from where we envisioned this model being viable. If Peter and others could come up with a plan, a team, and the ability to organize an opinion, we would listen to more formal representation from the community. If anything, it would allow us to explore what a hybrid corporate / representative decision making process might look like. Interested, Doug On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:47 PM, ferodynamicsduch...@solve360.com wrote: On Jul 16, 4:34 pm, Peter Denton petermden...@gmail.com wrote: There is a lot of ambiguity up in the air, about api devs (third party) and the future of the api and twitter. Apps are a huge growth vehicle and a very significant piece of the future, getting the Twitter medium a global behavior. You could call it the Association of Communications App Developers, or something like that. Sign me up. I just joined the group here but Peter has a good point. Even if you didn't read the leaked documents, Twitter could be sold tomorrow. Get real, this happens all the time: big company buys cool website and all promises are out the window. Worst case scenario: Yahoo buys Twitter and now you need a Yahoo account to use it ;-) I doubt Yahoo could afford Twitter, but you know what I mean. Regardless, I heard Laconica (open source microblogging) is working on a name registration system, so these 140-character messages can find new paths The clients could then update open networks with one extra line of code, then bypass the Twitter API entirely, if they had to. I don't care what Tweetdeck does (noobs catch on eventually) and with so much prior art there's nothing to stop it. Put down your Wii remote kids, that's the endgame here. Get some perspective.
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
Thanks Doug and Alex for your reply. I have a Google group set up for collaboration on this ( http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-developer-alliance) and will add a doc so we can begin going through iterations. If you would like an invite to this group, let me know and I will send one today. Thanks Peter On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Alex Payne a...@twitter.com wrote: I'm absolutely in favor of the community surfacing its own take on the Bill of Rights concept. We have a draft here at Twitter, but it's been difficult to make the time to work on it, particularly when I imagine your collective first priority is that we fix bugs and work on stability. Though access to the Twitter API is a privilege and not a right, we'd like to codify what every developer should be entitled to when working with our platform. If you have thoughts about that, please put them together and make them available for collaborative editing. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:39, Doug Williams d...@twitter.com wrote: We have discussed establishing a more formal relationship with developer representatives to help bring outside perspective and balance to our larger platform decisions. We are still a few quarters away from where we envisioned this model being viable. If Peter and others could come up with a plan, a team, and the ability to organize an opinion, we would listen to more formal representation from the community. If anything, it would allow us to explore what a hybrid corporate / representative decision making process might look like. Interested, Doug On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:47 PM, ferodynamicsduch...@solve360.com wrote: On Jul 16, 4:34 pm, Peter Denton petermden...@gmail.com wrote: There is a lot of ambiguity up in the air, about api devs (third party) and the future of the api and twitter. Apps are a huge growth vehicle and a very significant piece of the future, getting the Twitter medium a global behavior. You could call it the Association of Communications App Developers, or something like that. Sign me up. I just joined the group here but Peter has a good point. Even if you didn't read the leaked documents, Twitter could be sold tomorrow. Get real, this happens all the time: big company buys cool website and all promises are out the window. Worst case scenario: Yahoo buys Twitter and now you need a Yahoo account to use it ;-) I doubt Yahoo could afford Twitter, but you know what I mean. Regardless, I heard Laconica (open source microblogging) is working on a name registration system, so these 140-character messages can find new paths The clients could then update open networks with one extra line of code, then bypass the Twitter API entirely, if they had to. I don't care what Tweetdeck does (noobs catch on eventually) and with so much prior art there's nothing to stop it. Put down your Wii remote kids, that's the endgame here. Get some perspective. -- Alex Payne - Platform Lead, Twitter, Inc. http://twitter.com/al3x
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
For what you want to do, I recommend someone look at this platfrom. Its a way to post ideas that people can vote on, where the best ideas rise to the top. Starbucks uses the platform (mystarbucksidea.com), with a huge amount of success and participation. http://www.ideascale.com/ - Dale Fol.la MeDia, LLC On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Alex Payne a...@twitter.com wrote: I'm absolutely in favor of the community surfacing its own take on the Bill of Rights concept. We have a draft here at Twitter, but it's been difficult to make the time to work on it, particularly when I imagine your collective first priority is that we fix bugs and work on stability. Though access to the Twitter API is a privilege and not a right, we'd like to codify what every developer should be entitled to when working with our platform. If you have thoughts about that, please put them together and make them available for collaborative editing. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:39, Doug Williams d...@twitter.com wrote: We have discussed establishing a more formal relationship with developer representatives to help bring outside perspective and balance to our larger platform decisions. We are still a few quarters away from where we envisioned this model being viable. If Peter and others could come up with a plan, a team, and the ability to organize an opinion, we would listen to more formal representation from the community. If anything, it would allow us to explore what a hybrid corporate / representative decision making process might look like. Interested, Doug On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:47 PM, ferodynamicsduch...@solve360.com wrote: On Jul 16, 4:34 pm, Peter Denton petermden...@gmail.com wrote: There is a lot of ambiguity up in the air, about api devs (third party) and the future of the api and twitter. Apps are a huge growth vehicle and a very significant piece of the future, getting the Twitter medium a global behavior. You could call it the Association of Communications App Developers, or something like that. Sign me up. I just joined the group here but Peter has a good point. Even if you didn't read the leaked documents, Twitter could be sold tomorrow. Get real, this happens all the time: big company buys cool website and all promises are out the window. Worst case scenario: Yahoo buys Twitter and now you need a Yahoo account to use it ;-) I doubt Yahoo could afford Twitter, but you know what I mean. Regardless, I heard Laconica (open source microblogging) is working on a name registration system, so these 140-character messages can find new paths The clients could then update open networks with one extra line of code, then bypass the Twitter API entirely, if they had to. I don't care what Tweetdeck does (noobs catch on eventually) and with so much prior art there's nothing to stop it. Put down your Wii remote kids, that's the endgame here. Get some perspective. -- Alex Payne - Platform Lead, Twitter, Inc. http://twitter.com/al3x
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Abir abstar...@gmail.com wrote: Peter: In my experience, the folks @Twitter have been extremely responsive both on this forum+via email, and I thought this group was supposed to be doing that? Abir Twitter has, for the most part, done a great job in working with us and helping us. That said, I don't think it hurts to have a little advocacy. We developers share a somewhat unique share a set of priorities, needs and concerns -- why not make it easier to understand, represent and support those for everyone?
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
I understand the idea and I think it is interesting, but I am worried that it involves too much politics. Once such a group was established, I would have to make sure that my voice gets heard in that group. That would mean investing time in politics, which I am not keen on. Of course now the politics is probably mostly be a big enough company so that Twitter listens to you - not meant as a complaint, I think Twitter listens to normal guys as well, just saying. If you had a special interest, being a big player probably still helps. Björn
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
I think this is well intended but not necessary. As far as creating a group that has the ear of Twitter, I think this is list is doing quite well in that regard. The Twitter dev's have been very responsive and so far we have a nice community of third party devs as well. I agree with Bjoren, I feel this would just add an unnecessary level of politics. If I chose not to join said alliance, would Twitter care less about my voice? Again, I don't see how this group would be beneficial in anyway that this list isn't already providing. Lastly, I don't feel that I, or my App, have rights to access Twitter's API. It's their system, my access is a privilege. +Clint
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
Lastly, I don't feel that I, or my App, have rights to access Twitter's API. It's their system, my access is a privilege. They must in order for any app of significant size to exist. To reiterate others in this thread, Twitter does a great job. I think the alliance is a bit unrealistic (though interesting). I would like to see a developer bill of rights which is officially backed by Twitter and made public. They could of course change this as they feel necessary but once it's publicly disclosed then everyone is on the same page as to what they can and should expect. As a developer one of my primary concerns if that Twitter creates or modifies a policy which only has an implicit guideline. That's easy to do and could cause harm to developers that have invested a lot of time. This would, in the long run, wind up resulting in a crappy developer community (ala Facebook). I would also like to see on the bill of rights a list of rights reserved for Twitter. They're ultimately in control and have the most at stake. I trust the Twitter team as much as the rest of us on this list but I would like to see some sort of commitment for long term behavior if possible. Thanks for starting the thread Peter. Jaisen On Jul 17, 7:47 am, Clint Shryock cts...@gmail.com wrote: I think this is well intended but not necessary. As far as creating a group that has the ear of Twitter, I think this is list is doing quite well in that regard. The Twitter dev's have been very responsive and so far we have a nice community of third party devs as well. I agree with Bjoren, I feel this would just add an unnecessary level of politics. If I chose not to join said alliance, would Twitter care less about my voice? Again, I don't see how this group would be beneficial in anyway that this list isn't already providing. Lastly, I don't feel that I, or my App, have rights to access Twitter's API. It's their system, my access is a privilege. +Clint
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
Lastly, I don't feel that I, or my App, have rights to access Twitter's API. It's their system, my access is a privilege. Well said. -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- Talkers are no good doers. -- Shakespeare --
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
Lastly, I don't feel that I, or my App, have rights to access Twitter's API. It's their system, my access is a privilege. Well said. I believe the original intent was to state that while it's a privilege there have to be some agreed upon policies going both ways. The TOS works for Twitter and something similar could exist for developers. I doubt the original author implied that they want full access and rights to Twitter's system / API.
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
On Jul 16, 4:34 pm, Peter Denton petermden...@gmail.com wrote: There is a lot of ambiguity up in the air, about api devs (third party) and the future of the api and twitter. Apps are a huge growth vehicle and a very significant piece of the future, getting the Twitter medium a global behavior. You could call it the Association of Communications App Developers, or something like that. Sign me up. I just joined the group here but Peter has a good point. Even if you didn't read the leaked documents, Twitter could be sold tomorrow. Get real, this happens all the time: big company buys cool website and all promises are out the window. Worst case scenario: Yahoo buys Twitter and now you need a Yahoo account to use it ;-) I doubt Yahoo could afford Twitter, but you know what I mean. Regardless, I heard Laconica (open source microblogging) is working on a name registration system, so these 140-character messages can find new paths The clients could then update open networks with one extra line of code, then bypass the Twitter API entirely, if they had to. I don't care what Tweetdeck does (noobs catch on eventually) and with so much prior art there's nothing to stop it. Put down your Wii remote kids, that's the endgame here. Get some perspective.
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
Not sure that there needs to be formal alliance, but a working group that has the ear of twitter and can make sure needs are being met from both the developers and Twitters perspective would be good. On that same note though, I feel that twitter has done a pretty good job with this balance so far, and I do not feel that they'd do anything to hinder developers. As much as twitter is about being a communications tool, it is also a platform. I think they realizes this, and hindering the developers kills the platform. So, while an alliance might be helpful, personally, I also do not see it changing anything much. -Joel From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Denton Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:35 PM To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] API Developers Alliance There is a lot of ambiguity up in the air, about api devs (third party) and the future of the api and twitter. Apps are a huge growth vehicle and a very significant piece of the future, getting the Twitter medium a global behavior. I believe there should be a formal alliance of third party developers to ensure that Apps have rights. The ambiguity around down the road, if and when scenarios, leave many investors weary, teams unformed, and products unbuilt because at the end of the day, people have to consider a massive acquisition or change where suddenly apps are crushed by the parent. Twitter is not facebook and potential for sustainable/profitable products and services around this medium are real. If you don't agree, that's fine. I am seeking those who believe this and want to address this. This is not meant to be a big, serious thing. This is meant to be an action item to those who want a developer bill of rights to happen, with input/voice from an organized approach, and want to create some level of insurance, to go out to investors/partners with an approach. If anyone would like to discuss this, please let me know off the list. I am not trying to irritate people, just gauge people's interest. Regards Peter
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
Yes, agree with you 100%. I hope my mail did not come across overly Orwellian. Twitter is awesome and I have never experienced as warm a relationship with any large entity as with twitter. My intentions are to provide a place for API developers to discuss long term goals, concerns, as an entity of the twitter medium. Being able to express needs/fears to twitter in an organized manner will help everyone involved and reduce friction and increase transparency. On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Joel Strellner j...@twitturly.com wrote: Not sure that there needs to be formal alliance, but a working group that has the ear of twitter and can make sure needs are being met from both the developers and Twitters perspective would be good. On that same note though, I feel that twitter has done a pretty good job with this balance so far, and I do not feel that they’d do anything to hinder developers. As much as twitter is about being a communications tool, it is also a platform. I think they realizes this, and hindering the developers kills the platform. So, while an alliance might be helpful, personally, I also do not see it changing anything much. -Joel *From:* twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto: twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Denton *Sent:* Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:35 PM *To:* twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [twitter-dev] API Developers Alliance There is a lot of ambiguity up in the air, about api devs (third party) and the future of the api and twitter. Apps are a huge growth vehicle and a very significant piece of the future, getting the Twitter medium a global behavior. I believe there should be a formal alliance of third party developers to ensure that Apps have rights. The ambiguity around down the road, if and when scenarios, leave many investors weary, teams unformed, and products unbuilt because at the end of the day, people have to consider a massive acquisition or change where suddenly apps are crushed by the parent. Twitter is not facebook and potential for sustainable/profitable products and services around this medium are real. If you don't agree, that's fine. I am seeking those who believe this and want to address this. This is not meant to be a big, serious thing. This is meant to be an action item to those who want a developer bill of rights to happen, with input/voice from an organized approach, and want to create some level of insurance, to go out to investors/partners with an approach. If anyone would like to discuss this, please let me know off the list. I am not trying to irritate people, just gauge people's interest. Regards Peter -- Peter M. Denton www.twibs.com i...@twibs.com Twibs makes Top 20 apps on Twitter - http://tinyurl.com/bopu6c
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
Peter: In my experience, the folks @Twitter have been extremely responsive both on this forum+via email, and I thought this group was supposed to be doing that? Abir On Jul 16, 3:36 pm, Joel Strellner j...@twitturly.com wrote: Why can't we keep using this list for that purpose? It has worked well so far. -Joel From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Denton Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:34 PM To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance Yes, agree with you 100%. I hope my mail did not come across overly Orwellian. Twitter is awesome and I have never experienced as warm a relationship with any large entity as with twitter. My intentions are to provide a place for API developers to discuss long term goals, concerns, as an entity of the twitter medium. Being able to express needs/fears to twitter in an organized manner will help everyone involved and reduce friction and increase transparency. On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Joel Strellner j...@twitturly.com wrote: Not sure that there needs to be formal alliance, but a working group that has the ear of twitter and can make sure needs are being met from both the developers and Twitters perspective would be good. On that same note though, I feel that twitter has done a pretty good job with this balance so far, and I do not feel that they'd do anything to hinder developers. As much as twitter is about being a communications tool, it is also a platform. I think they realizes this, and hindering the developers kills the platform. So, while an alliance might be helpful, personally, I also do not see it changing anything much. -Joel From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Denton Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:35 PM To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] API Developers Alliance There is a lot of ambiguity up in the air, about api devs (third party) and the future of the api and twitter. Apps are a huge growth vehicle and a very significant piece of the future, getting the Twitter medium a global behavior. I believe there should be a formal alliance of third party developers to ensure that Apps have rights. The ambiguity around down the road, if and when scenarios, leave many investors weary, teams unformed, and products unbuilt because at the end of the day, people have to consider a massive acquisition or change where suddenly apps are crushed by the parent. Twitter is not facebook and potential for sustainable/profitable products and services around this medium are real. If you don't agree, that's fine. I am seeking those who believe this and want to address this. This is not meant to be a big, serious thing. This is meant to be an action item to those who want a developer bill of rights to happen, with input/voice from an organized approach, and want to create some level of insurance, to go out to investors/partners with an approach. If anyone would like to discuss this, please let me know off the list. I am not trying to irritate people, just gauge people's interest. Regards Peter -- Peter M. Dentonwww.twibs.com i...@twibs.com Twibs makes Top 20 apps on Twitter -http://tinyurl.com/bopu6c
[twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance
Yes, I think my email was wrongly presented and as a result, misinterpreted. I was hoping to spearhead an attempt to compose the developers Bill of Rights that has been floating around. This was intended as a way to help twitter platform team and present a draft from the developers ideas/concerns, and possibly further identify hurdles to business models, etc. I will continue to communicate with those interested off the list and anyone who is interested in contributing can email me. I also want to keep brainstorming with people on how to unify the development community. nuff said. Regards Peter On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Abir abstar...@gmail.com wrote: Peter: In my experience, the folks @Twitter have been extremely responsive both on this forum+via email, and I thought this group was supposed to be doing that? Abir On Jul 16, 3:36 pm, Joel Strellner j...@twitturly.com wrote: Why can't we keep using this list for that purpose? It has worked well so far. -Joel From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Denton Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:34 PM To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: API Developers Alliance Yes, agree with you 100%. I hope my mail did not come across overly Orwellian. Twitter is awesome and I have never experienced as warm a relationship with any large entity as with twitter. My intentions are to provide a place for API developers to discuss long term goals, concerns, as an entity of the twitter medium. Being able to express needs/fears to twitter in an organized manner will help everyone involved and reduce friction and increase transparency. On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Joel Strellner j...@twitturly.com wrote: Not sure that there needs to be formal alliance, but a working group that has the ear of twitter and can make sure needs are being met from both the developers and Twitters perspective would be good. On that same note though, I feel that twitter has done a pretty good job with this balance so far, and I do not feel that they'd do anything to hinder developers. As much as twitter is about being a communications tool, it is also a platform. I think they realizes this, and hindering the developers kills the platform. So, while an alliance might be helpful, personally, I also do not see it changing anything much. -Joel From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Denton Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:35 PM To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] API Developers Alliance There is a lot of ambiguity up in the air, about api devs (third party) and the future of the api and twitter. Apps are a huge growth vehicle and a very significant piece of the future, getting the Twitter medium a global behavior. I believe there should be a formal alliance of third party developers to ensure that Apps have rights. The ambiguity around down the road, if and when scenarios, leave many investors weary, teams unformed, and products unbuilt because at the end of the day, people have to consider a massive acquisition or change where suddenly apps are crushed by the parent. Twitter is not facebook and potential for sustainable/profitable products and services around this medium are real. If you don't agree, that's fine. I am seeking those who believe this and want to address this. This is not meant to be a big, serious thing. This is meant to be an action item to those who want a developer bill of rights to happen, with input/voice from an organized approach, and want to create some level of insurance, to go out to investors/partners with an approach. If anyone would like to discuss this, please let me know off the list. I am not trying to irritate people, just gauge people's interest. Regards Peter -- Peter M. Dentonwww.twibs.com i...@twibs.com Twibs makes Top 20 apps on Twitter -http://tinyurl.com/bopu6c
