[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-14 Thread Chris Babcock

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:13:12 -0700 (PDT)
Mike Langford m...@tweetworks.com wrote:

 Twitter will also have to inform other existing clients, like
 Twiterific and TwitterBerry, to cease and desist as well if it hopes
 for a success application.

I'm not sure the situation is that set in stone.

If Twitter wants an alternative to massive numbers of CDs then it can
contact developers currently using the Twitter name and offer reasonable
terms to license it for their applications. It may or may not be as
simple as return this form signed and use this wording on your
product and there may be business reasons not to take that approach,
but my pure and utterly uninformed guess would be that the lawyers are
working on that form and that the API team has advocates with the
advocates urging them to find a way to make it happen that doesn't
require asking for a licensing fee.

Chris Babcock


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-13 Thread Chris Babcock

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:17:38 -0600
Bioscience News bioscienceupda...@gmail.com wrote:

 All this stuff about following being equated to spamming is nonsense.


First, the act of following someone usually generates a message. When
you first join Twitter, it's exciting to get new followers and you look
forward to those messages. Then you start checking out the profiles to
see if you want to follow back... and you find that you don't because
it's a just a BambiBot or some other SpamBot. Soon you stop checking
out your followers all together because the noise is too high in that
channel. The content of the users' profile and existing Tweets are the
payload of the Spam message communicated by following a user.

Second, and more importantly, the social graph is part of the signal on
Twitter. Part of the value of following a person may be the quality of
their other followers. Without the Spam and the Ham in the following,
you could browse the followers of those whose insight you appreciate
and identify others who share that appreciation. You might even browse
those they follow to try to find other users to follow like the one you
had in common to begin with.

Unless the content of the social graph is hand grown, or at least
reasonably filtered, you lose the channel. So, yes, it is possible to
have following Spam and it is a real problem for Twitter users.

Chris Babcock



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-13 Thread Chris Babcock

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:50:24 -0700 (PDT)
Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote:

 It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam.
 
 You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it
 is NOT spam.


If you have an email account sent notices to your IMs when you have
email, those notices are not Spam, but the content of the message may
be.

Twitter's just the protocol. The you have a follower message is not
Spam, but the act of following itself may be if the intent is to use
Twitter's delivery methods to deliver unwelcome content. 

If a user opts-out of receiving follower notices because of the
content of the followers' profiles then Spam has damaged the network
infrastructure on which Twitter is based.

Chris Babcock


 



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-13 Thread Dewald Pretorius

In the final analysis, I think we should express sympathy for the API
team. They're great guys, and they are busting their butts to help us
succeed.

This action appears to be an example of where another part of the
Twitter organization did something that makes their lives hell.

Chin up, guys. I know you cannot reply to this thread. But, hopefully,
as the Twitter organization grows and matures, coordination will also
improve.

Dewald


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-13 Thread Neil Ellis


+1 and well explained Chris, thanks.

On 13 Aug 2009, at 08:38, Chris Babcock wrote:



On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:50:24 -0700 (PDT)
Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote:

It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT  
spam.


You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it
is NOT spam.



If you have an email account sent notices to your IMs when you have
email, those notices are not Spam, but the content of the message may
be.

Twitter's just the protocol. The you have a follower message is not
Spam, but the act of following itself may be if the intent is to use
Twitter's delivery methods to deliver unwelcome content.

If a user opts-out of receiving follower notices because of the
content of the followers' profiles then Spam has damaged the network
infrastructure on which Twitter is based.

Chris Babcock








[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-13 Thread Andrew Badera

Spam is anything in your inbox caused by a third party and not desired
by you. Period. Get over the semantics already. If it were possible to
opt-out of all bambibot, SEObot and other spambot accounts on
Twitter, then sure, getting bot follow notifications in your inbox
would NOT be spam. Unfortunately the choice is not offered, but the
lack of a distinctive choice in this matter does not change intent or
outcome.

∞ Andy Badera
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)



On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Neil Ellisneilellis1...@googlemail.com wrote:

 +1 and well explained Chris, thanks.

 On 13 Aug 2009, at 08:38, Chris Babcock wrote:


 On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:50:24 -0700 (PDT)
 Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote:

 It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam.

 You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it
 is NOT spam.


 If you have an email account sent notices to your IMs when you have
 email, those notices are not Spam, but the content of the message may
 be.

 Twitter's just the protocol. The you have a follower message is not
 Spam, but the act of following itself may be if the intent is to use
 Twitter's delivery methods to deliver unwelcome content.

 If a user opts-out of receiving follower notices because of the
 content of the followers' profiles then Spam has damaged the network
 infrastructure on which Twitter is based.

 Chris Babcock








[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-13 Thread Mike Langford

In short, Twitter has filed a trademark application and in doing so
they must attempt to defend the name if they hope to be awarded
trademark protection. Twitter allowed its original application to
lapse and refiled on April 29, 2009. 
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=docstate=4003:eq5aoa.2.5

If Twitter continues to allow developers to use its name without
attempting to defend its use it will certainly be denied a trademark.
Twitter will also have to inform other existing clients, like
Twiterific and TwitterBerry, to cease and desist as well if it hopes
for a success application.

As an business owner I completely understand Twitter's position here.
I'm hopeful however, that they will be equally as diligent in working
with the development community to help apps succeed while staying in
bounds of Twitter's needs and user expectations. Twitter is at a
turning point where it is almost certain to crush a few developers in
the process of rolling out its business model. It's a delicate
balance, monetize while keeping the development community happy,
attracting more average users, and keeping the power users purists
happy.

Should be fun to watch.

Mike Langford
CEO, Tweetworks LLC
Tweet Me: @MikeLangford
Email Me: m...@tweetworks.com

On Aug 11, 10:48 pm, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote:
 Any other developer being sued by Twitter today?

 If so give me a call - feel free to tweet 
 outwww.MyTwitterButler.com/I'm_Being_Sued
 http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/I'm_Being_Sued  to anyone you want -
 looking forward to the press having a field day with this.

 Regards,

 Dean Collins
 d...@mytwitterbutler.com
 mailto:d...@mytwitterbutler.com?subject=i'm%20being%20Sued
 +1-212-203-4357   New York
 +61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
 +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).

 

 From: Dean Collins
 Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:37 PM
 To: 'newtec...@meetup.com'
 Subject: Twitter is Suing me!!!

 So not only are Twitter fighting battles with Russian hackers they are
 now fighting their own third party API developer community !!

 I received this email 30 minutes ago stating that Twitter is suing me??

 Basically they feel that my application -www.MyTwitterButler.com
 http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/  does the following.

 1/ That anyone using the API to auto follow people are breaching the
 TOS??

 2/ That no one can use the word Twitter in their domain

 3/ That somehow people might be confused my application is related to
 twitter even though every page is labeled

 Copyright 2009 (c) My Twitter Butler - Not related in anyway to Twitter
 Inc, if I owned Twitter would i be spending my time building this app??

 Is this the end for Twitter 3rd party developers?

 Have they forgotten that it was people like me who saw a need and built
 an application using the publicly defined Twitter API to add value to
 the Twitter ecosystem?

 I have asked Twitters lawyers for a conference call tomorrow to clear up
 'WHY' they feel anyone using the twitter API to auto follow people is an
 illegal act and will be looking forward to their answers about 'WHY' the
 twitter API was built in the first place if they want to sue people for
 using it.

 www.MyTwitterButler.com/I'm_Being_Sued
 http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/I'm_Being_Sued  

 Regards,

 Dean Collins
 d...@mytwitterbutler.com
 +1-212-203-4357   New York
 +61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
 +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).

 FENWICK  WEST LLP

 SILICON VALLEY CENTER 801 CALI FORN IA STREET MOUNTAIN VIEW, CA 94041

 TEL 650.988.8500 FAX 650.938.5200 WWW.FENWICK.COM

 August 11, 2009

 KAREN WEBB

 VIA CERTIFIED MAIL AND EMAIL

 Dean Collins

 Attn: MyTwitterButler.com

 d...@cognation.net

 Re: Infringement of Twitter, Inc.'s Trademark Rights

 Dear Mr. Collins:

 EMAIL kw...@fenwick.com

 DIRECT DIAL (650) 335*7656

 This firm represents Twitter, Inc. (Twitter), owner of the TWITTER
 trademark and

 the popular social networking and micro-blogging website atwww.twitter.com. 
 We are

 contacting you regarding your violation of Twitter's Terms of Service
 (TOS) and spam

 rules, and your infringement of Twitter's trademark rights.

 Twitter has recently become aware that you have registered and are using
 the

 MyTwitterButler.com domain, where you advertise and offer for sale the
 My Twitter Butler

 software that facilitates aggressive and automatic following to Twitter
 users. On your website

 you also claim to have used the same aggressive following techniques.
 This activity violates

 Twitter's TOS and rules.

 In addition to the above violations, you are also infringing on
 Twitter's trademark

 rights by using the MyTwitterButler.com domain and the TWITTER
 trademark. As you are

 likely aware, Twitter's extensive and widespread use of its TWITTER
 trademark provides

 Twitter with strong and defensible rights in the mark, and has caused
 the mark to become

 well-known, if not famous, in today's online marketplace. Twitter owns

[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-13 Thread jim.renkel

IANAL, but I don't think all is doom and gloom, or at least not as
doomy and goomy as previous posts to this thread (Including one of
mine, if it is not read as tongue-in-cheek, as intended) portray.

Yes, if you have a trademark, you have to aggressively defend it or
risk losing it. No, completely barring others from using it is not the
only way to aggressively defend it. You can license it, subject to
some terms and conditions, and aggressively police the licensing
program.

I know this because in a previous life I made modems. These modems
included many significant innovations, which were protected by
patents.

Now, modems are like dancing: it takes two to twango (GDI! I've got o
stop doing that! :-) ). And even though the company for which I worked
had at one time an ~85% market share of dial-up modems, there was
still that pesky ~15% from competitors that wanted to interoperate
with ours. To do that, they had to include our innovations, and the
companies that built them, our competitors, had to license the
innovations.

Each innovation had a catchy, trade-marked brand name, and along with
licensing the innovations the other companies would license the brand
name for use in their labeling, promotion, and advertising. In fact,
the licensing terms and conditions *REQUIRED* them to do so, or risk
having the license terminated.

All fine and dandy, so far.

But it addition to the other modem manufacturers, ISPs that purchased
these modems, either from us or others, wanted to advertise that they
provided service that included these innovations. Unlike licensing the
technology, purchasing a product containing the technology did *NOT*
grant you license to use the technology's trademarked brand name in
your labeling, promotions, and advertising: they had to separately
license the trademarked brand name.

Now licensing is never free, it always involves compensation. (Why?
Don't ask me, IANAL) But the compensation is not necessarily monetary,
it may be a requirement to actually use the brand name to promote your
service, thereby promoting the technology. I.e., if you actually run
advertising (For your service) that includes the brand name upon which
your service is built, then you have promoted the brand name and
thereby compensated us for licensing the brand name to you; if you
don't advertise, then you haven't compensated us, and we pull the
license. All of this, of course, subject to terms and conditions
contained in the license agreement.

I know this is how it worked because periodically my engineering team
would gets updates from the legal department on new licensees (I.e.,
people we could and should talk to) and terminated licensees (I.e.,
people we couldn't and shouldn't talk to). I know for a fact that in
some cases licenses to use the trademarked brand names were terminated
because their service and/or advertising violated the terms and
conditions of the license (Most such cases involved providing or
promoting illegal activities; for example, child pornography).

How is all of this relevant to the case at hand?

Twitter could (And I sincerely hope they do.) license the use of their
trademarks to us, developers of products that interoperate with their
services, subject to terms and conditions, with the only compensation
being that ya have to actually use the trademarks to promote your
product and thereby their service. If ya actually use the trademarks
(And abide by the terms and conditions) your license stays in effect;
ya don't use the trademarks (Or you violate the terms and condition)
your license is terminated.

Again, IANAL, but I don't see any reason that the licensing of the
trademarks could not include their use in product and domain names.

And maybe the licensing process is as simple as signing up for an
OAuth consumer key, agreeing to the trademark licensing terms and
conditions as part of the OAuth sign-up.

Naw! That wouldn't work, it's too easy! :-)

Comments expected and welcome,

Jim Renkel

On Aug 13, 2:19 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote:
 did you really expect them to allow something that clearly violated their
 TOS to use the Twitter name? There are plenty of apps out there that add
 Real Value(TM) to Twitter's community.



 On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 13:05, Dale Merritt mogul...@gmail.com wrote:
  You're right, they could decide to grant you the right to use it.  Good
  luck with that. Keep building up that brand then and cross your fingers.
  Sounds like a sound assumption.

  On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Nick Arnett nick.arn...@gmail.comwrote:

   On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Dale Merritt mogul...@gmail.comwrote:

  Don't waste your time.  If you have Twitter in your domain name, you
  could be put out of business if you don't cease and desist. I've seen it
  first hand.  They bury you in a law suit, wrong or right is not the point.
  These companies have a huge lawyer group and bat you around for fun.

  This doesn't take into account the fact that Twitter is certainly 

[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Goblin

I got a letter from a UK law firm too regarding www.twitlonger.com
(which clearly doesn't use the word Twitter).

They weren't too draconian in their claims. They want a disclaimer put
on the site (fair enough) and for me to stop using the little blue
birds (again, fair enough. This is what happens when a stupid weekend
project turns into half million uniques a month).

What isn't quite as fair is that I have to stop using a font
identical or similar to that used in the Twitter logo. I'm using
Arial Rounded which is significantly different to the custom font
Twitter uses and as common a typeface as you can get, though the
colours are similar. This one's the kicker though, they want me to
permanently stop use on the website of a blue background. WTF?
Twitter now owns blue? I'm about a day away from dropping a redesign
anyway, but being told what colours I can use is a bit much.

This was all on the same day that they approved my whitelisting :)

On Aug 12, 5:27 am, Jeremy Darling jeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote:
 I really really want to see them backup the tweet trademark.  All birds are
 now being sued by twitter, they can no longer say; tweet tweet LOL.

 Seems lil twitter grew up and found lawyers.  While I don't agree or like
 the product that Dean sells, I dis-agree more with the misuse of legal
 representation by a corporation even more.  I remember when MS started this
 everyone threw stones (and courts threw it out), now twitter starts it and
 its OK!?

 I warn developers to watch their backs, your little cheezy app that uses
 twitter may bite you in the arse.

 Of course, I don't see twitter going after the advertising/marketing
 companies utilizing the API and hitting the service just as many times to
 mine for data or to use what they mine to target sales.  That seems to be a
 complete and total ethical use of the service, course a few $$ thrown the
 right direction always does sway a corporations view of grey.

  - Jeremy



 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:13 PM, jim.renkel james.ren...@gmail.com wrote:

  I guess I should have pointed out that my tongue was firmly planted in
  my check when I wrote my previous post. My bad! :-(

  Dean: I don't mean to make light of your particular situation.
  Sometimes I just can't not point out absurdities, which the logic I
  presented clearly is.

  What I was trying to do, perhaps not too well, is point out that the
  API TOS may need to be revised to say that developers may use
  twitter's trademarks, but only in approved ways.

  BTW, twitter is trademarking tweet as well as twitter. You have
  been warned! :-)

  Jim


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Rich

Except Twitter is encouraging the use of the word Tweet in
applications, but not their brand name, Twitter. Perfectly acceptable
in my personal opinion.

On Aug 12, 5:13 am, jim.renkel james.ren...@gmail.com wrote:

 BTW, twitter is trademarking tweet as well as twitter. You have
 been warned! :-)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Andrew Badera

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Jeremy
Darlingjeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote:
 Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that trademark
 against a URL, can't be done.  If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people
 left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com) as
 well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names
 LOL.  Several other companies have tried this as well and failed.

 As for Twitter TOS and developer rights.  Nope, can't sue for voilation of a
 TOS on a public API either.  You can suspend suspect activities and revoke
 developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS
 violation of this type.  Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject.

 On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in
 valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point in
 most cases.

 Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be
 Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the company that
 was un-true.  In that case, they could get you for everything your worth
 LOL.  Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the same laws
 as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically have to suck
 it up in the end.

  - Jeremy


Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case.

Twitter can most definitely enforce their trademark here.

∞ Andy Badera
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Andrew Badera

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Except Twitter is encouraging the use of the word Tweet in
 applications, but not their brand name, Twitter. Perfectly acceptable
 in my personal opinion.

 On Aug 12, 5:13 am, jim.renkel james.ren...@gmail.com wrote:

 BTW, twitter is trademarking tweet as well as twitter. You have
 been warned! :-)


I thought there was a CD incident last month that revolved around tweet?

∞ Andy Badera
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Rich

I'm not aware of this but this link 
http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html,
published only last month says

We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to
Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going
after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in
their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use
of the word Tweet.

On Aug 12, 10:47 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote:

  Except Twitter is encouraging the use of the word Tweet in
  applications, but not their brand name, Twitter. Perfectly acceptable
  in my personal opinion.

  On Aug 12, 5:13 am, jim.renkel james.ren...@gmail.com wrote:

  BTW, twitter is trademarking tweet as well as twitter. You have
  been warned! :-)

 I thought there was a CD incident last month that revolved around tweet?

 ∞ Andy Badera
 ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
 ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Andrew Badera

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm not aware of this but this link 
 http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html,
 published only last month says

 We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to
 Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going
 after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in
 their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use
 of the word Tweet.



Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article
that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know.

--ab


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Goblin

The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic,
Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon,
iTwitter etc?

I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as
I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version
is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone
with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious
issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect
trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :(

On Aug 12, 10:54 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'm not aware of this but this 
  linkhttp://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html,
  published only last month says

  We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to
  Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going
  after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in
  their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use
  of the word Tweet.

 Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article
 that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know.

 --ab


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dale Merritt
What is Twitters real stance on auto following?  In there API they prohibit
mass following so what does that mean exactly.  More than 1, 100?  In my
app, I had planned on integrating some meaniful auto following
Dale
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:55 AM, Goblin stu...@abovetheinternet.org wrote:


 The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic,
 Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon,
 iTwitter etc?

 I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as
 I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version
 is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone
 with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious
 issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect
 trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :(

 On Aug 12, 10:54 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:
  On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   I'm not aware of this but this linkhttp://
 blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html,
published only last month says
 
   We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to
   Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going
   after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in
   their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use
   of the word Tweet.
 
  Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article
  that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know.
 
  --ab




-- 
Dale Merritt
Fol.la MeDia, LLC


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Vision Jinx

FYI - mashable.com just posted a story on this here
http://mashable.com/2009/08/12/twitter-not-suing-developer/

Interesting to know that if Twitter gets the trademark for Tweet
also what about the apps and businesses that have been using it before
the claim like TweetDeck etc etc? Seems they would have a justifiable
claim to the name also? How does that work?

Not sure about the US but where I am if someone has made a stable
reputation from a name they are also entitled to a trademark clause
for it regardless if they officially trademarked it. (in my own words)

The owner of a common law trademark may also file suit, but an
unregistered mark may be protectable only within the geographical area
within which it has been used or in geographical areas into which it
may be reasonably expected to expand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV either so seek
your own legal council regarding it.


On Aug 12, 5:55 am, Goblin stu...@abovetheinternet.org wrote:
 The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic,
 Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon,
 iTwitter etc?

 I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as
 I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version
 is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone
 with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious
 issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect
 trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :(

 On Aug 12, 10:54 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:

  On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote:

   I'm not aware of this but this 
   linkhttp://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html,
   published only last month says

   We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to
   Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going
   after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in
   their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use
   of the word Tweet.

  Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article
  that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know.

  --ab


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dale Merritt
The trademark app for Tweet could be disputed. There is a window of time
in the trademark office proceedings that you can do this.  I think its 60
days after the mark has been approved for publication, prior to the official
registration is approved.  Any app w/ Tweet in their name might band
together to see if more can be accomplished and spend less money on
attoneys.  I'm sure Twitter is probably wrestling with this issue too,
seeing that they have basically came out and said they wouldn't go after
anyone using it in a correct way.  To dispute the mark provides leverage.  I
went through this with one of my trademarks, and was able to come to a
settlement.

Dale


On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:24 AM, Vision Jinx vjn...@gmail.com wrote:


 FYI - mashable.com just posted a story on this here
 http://mashable.com/2009/08/12/twitter-not-suing-developer/

 Interesting to know that if Twitter gets the trademark for Tweet
 also what about the apps and businesses that have been using it before
 the claim like TweetDeck etc etc? Seems they would have a justifiable
 claim to the name also? How does that work?

 Not sure about the US but where I am if someone has made a stable
 reputation from a name they are also entitled to a trademark clause
 for it regardless if they officially trademarked it. (in my own words)

 The owner of a common law trademark may also file suit, but an
 unregistered mark may be protectable only within the geographical area
 within which it has been used or in geographical areas into which it
 may be reasonably expected to expand.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark

 Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV either so seek
 your own legal council regarding it.


 On Aug 12, 5:55 am, Goblin stu...@abovetheinternet.org wrote:
  The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic,
  Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon,
  iTwitter etc?
 
  I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as
  I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version
  is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone
  with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious
  issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect
  trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :(
 
  On Aug 12, 10:54 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:
 
   On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote:
 
I'm not aware of this but this linkhttp://
 blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html,
published only last month says
 
We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to
Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going
after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in
their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the
 use
of the word Tweet.
 
   Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article
   that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know.
 
   --ab




-- 
Dale Merritt
Fol.la MeDia, LLC


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dewald Pretorius

Logically, isn't it necessary that a clear and unambiguous definition
of aggressive following to be publicly available before any legal
action can be based on it?

Just asking.

Dewald


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread JDG
As has been stated ad nauseum, Twitter would have a very hard time
initiating legal proceedings simply because you violated the TOS. They could
suspend your account, sure, but they're a private company. They could
suspend your account because they didn't like the color of your shirt.

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 07:04, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote:


 Logically, isn't it necessary that a clear and unambiguous definition
 of aggressive following to be publicly available before any legal
 action can be based on it?

 Just asking.

 Dewald




-- 
Internets. Serious business.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Andrew Badera

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Logically, isn't it necessary that a clear and unambiguous definition
 of aggressive following to be publicly available before any legal
 action can be based on it?

 Just asking.

 Dewald


The decision in any legal action would set the precedent most likely.
It's essentially an interpretation of contract case.

∞ Andy Badera
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Duane Roelands

You're not being sued.  That's a cease-and-desist letter.

You're violating Twitter's trademark by selling a product with
Twitter in the name.  The legal precedents for this are ironclad.
You can't do it.

You're violating Twitters terms of service by offering a program that
auto-follows thousands of people at a time.  Did you really think you
were going to get away with that?

It doesn't matter if you think it's fair.  It doesn't matter who else
is doing it.  It doesn't even matter if you think you're right: you're
not.

Stop infringing Twitter's trademark and stop violating their terms of
service and they'll leave you alone.  It's really not rocket science.



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Bill Kocik



On Aug 12, 12:27 am, Jeremy Darling jeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Seems lil twitter grew up and found lawyers.  While I don't agree or like
 the product that Dean sells, I dis-agree more with the misuse of legal
 representation by a corporation even more.  I remember when MS started this
 everyone threw stones (and courts threw it out), now twitter starts it and
 its OK!?

I'm not expressing an opinion on this one way or the other, but what a
lot of people don't realize about US trademark law is this: Twitter
doesn't have a choice in this matter. They are *required* to actively
defend their trademark, or they will lose it. This is how the law
works, and it's why you often see companies taking seemingly
unnecessary action against seemingly minor violations (not that I'm
quantifying this as minor). They have to, that's all there is to it.



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Larry Wright



 I'm not expressing an opinion on this one way or the other, but what a
 lot of people don't realize about US trademark law is this: Twitter
 doesn't have a choice in this matter. They are *required* to actively
 defend their trademark, or they will lose it. This is how the law
 works, and it's why you often see companies taking seemingly
 unnecessary action against seemingly minor violations (not that I'm
 quantifying this as minor). They have to, that's all there is to it.



+1

I was going to send this but you beat me to it.

-- 
Larry Wright


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dewald Pretorius

Andy,

One would hope that a judge would not even hear a case that said,
Defendent violated terms that he had no way of knowing exactly when
and how he violated those terms.

Suspending accounts based on what is a nebulous concept to the public
is one thing. Even though it may not be good PR, it is well within
someone's rights to do so. But, to take legal action based on it is
probably, or shall I say hopefully, a bit of a stretch of the
imagination. There is a good reason why law books and contracts are so
thick and contain so many definitions, namely, so you can know exactly
when you have broken the law or broken the terms of the contract.

Dewald

On Aug 12, 10:07 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote:
 The decision in any legal action would set the precedent most likely.
 It's essentially an interpretation of contract case.

 ∞ Andy Badera
 ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
 ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Andrew Badera

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Andy,

 One would hope that a judge would not even hear a case that said,
 Defendent violated terms that he had no way of knowing exactly when
 and how he violated those terms.

 Suspending accounts based on what is a nebulous concept to the public
 is one thing. Even though it may not be good PR, it is well within
 someone's rights to do so. But, to take legal action based on it is
 probably, or shall I say hopefully, a bit of a stretch of the
 imagination. There is a good reason why law books and contracts are so
 thick and contain so many definitions, namely, so you can know exactly
 when you have broken the law or broken the terms of the contract.

 Dewald


And if a judge refused to hear the case, that's also setting some
precedent, and forces Twitter to provide clearer terms if they expect
to pursue similar matters in the future.

∞ Andy Badera
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread David Fisher

The OP should have first gotten a lawyer to look over it, instead of
freaking out hysterically here.

He's not being sued. Twitter does own the name Twitter and can
selectively choose to sue/CD (or not sue) anyone they like who
infringes on it. You defense being other people have registered the
domain names too! isn't any better one than you'll get with saying,
But other people use Bittorrent too!

Someone up in the thread said, No one can now use the Twitter API
because it says you can't use Twitter's name in your application, but
they want you to put Powered by Twitter on the site. That's just
FUD.

Come on guys, put on your big boy pants and lets show a bit of
business acumen and maturity here. Twitter isn't draconian, shutting
down the developer community, etc. That's just silly.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dewald Pretorius

Just thinking, I cannot recall ever having seen in the Twitter TOS
where it says that it is a violation of their TOS to assist or enable
others to violate their TOS. It is probably just an oversight, and
it's something that should be in a Developer TOS.

But, even if they did that, they would be painting themselves into a
corner if they did not very clearly and very exactly define each
clause of the TOS. Not doing that is simply sending them into a very
dark alley of extremely bad publicity.

Dewald

On Aug 12, 10:31 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote:
 And if a judge refused to hear the case, that's also setting some
 precedent, and forces Twitter to provide clearer terms if they expect
 to pursue similar matters in the future.

 ∞ Andy Badera
 ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
 ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Andrew Badera

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Just thinking, I cannot recall ever having seen in the Twitter TOS
 where it says that it is a violation of their TOS to assist or enable
 others to violate their TOS. It is probably just an oversight, and
 it's something that should be in a Developer TOS.

 But, even if they did that, they would be painting themselves into a
 corner if they did not very clearly and very exactly define each
 clause of the TOS. Not doing that is simply sending them into a very
 dark alley of extremely bad publicity.

 Dewald

Might qualify as a safe harbor issue ...

∞ Andy Badera
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Rich

As I've already said above, quoted from Twitter, they are doing it to
protect their brand but are not interested in stopping people using
Tweet, in fact they are actively encouraging it!

On Aug 12, 1:53 pm, Dale Merritt mogul...@gmail.com wrote:
 The trademark app for Tweet could be disputed. There is a window of time
 in the trademark office proceedings that you can do this.  I think its 60
 days after the mark has been approved for publication, prior to the official
 registration is approved.  Any app w/ Tweet in their name might band
 together to see if more can be accomplished and spend less money on
 attoneys.  I'm sure Twitter is probably wrestling with this issue too,
 seeing that they have basically came out and said they wouldn't go after
 anyone using it in a correct way.  To dispute the mark provides leverage.  I
 went through this with one of my trademarks, and was able to come to a
 settlement.

 Dale



 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:24 AM, Vision Jinx vjn...@gmail.com wrote:

  FYI - mashable.com just posted a story on this here
 http://mashable.com/2009/08/12/twitter-not-suing-developer/

  Interesting to know that if Twitter gets the trademark for Tweet
  also what about the apps and businesses that have been using it before
  the claim like TweetDeck etc etc? Seems they would have a justifiable
  claim to the name also? How does that work?

  Not sure about the US but where I am if someone has made a stable
  reputation from a name they are also entitled to a trademark clause
  for it regardless if they officially trademarked it. (in my own words)

  The owner of a common law trademark may also file suit, but an
  unregistered mark may be protectable only within the geographical area
  within which it has been used or in geographical areas into which it
  may be reasonably expected to expand.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark

  Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV either so seek
  your own legal council regarding it.

  On Aug 12, 5:55 am, Goblin stu...@abovetheinternet.org wrote:
   The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic,
   Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon,
   iTwitter etc?

   I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as
   I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version
   is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone
   with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious
   issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect
   trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :(

   On Aug 12, 10:54 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm not aware of this but this linkhttp://
  blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html,
 published only last month says

 We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to
 Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going
 after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in
 their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the
  use
 of the word Tweet.

Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article
that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know.

--ab

 --
 Dale Merritt
 Fol.la MeDia, LLC


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Andrew Badera

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Bill Kocikbko...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Aug 12, 9:07 am, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote:

 It doesn't matter who else
 is doing it.

 Well, actually, it does matter. That's the thing about trademarks -
 you are obligated to defend them across the board, or you lose them.
 You can't selectively defend them by allowing people (or applications,
 or business entities) you like to use them and not people you don't.
 If you do, the people you selectively pursue will stand up in court
 and ask What actions have you taken against X, Y, and Z, who also use
 your trademark? which is a perfectly relevant legal question to which
 the plaintiff's answer had better not be None - we're only going
 after you.

 This is how trademark suits are defended against and how they are lost.


But _ethically_, morally, it doesn't matter.

∞ Andy Badera
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Jeremy Darling
Actually, I recall it perfectly well.  MS threatened action against Mike Roe
(a Canadian student as I recall) for his development company.  The case was
settled OUT OF COURT, with MS basically having to purchase his domain.  The
same could be applied to this product where Twitter can not demand the URL
but they can wait for it to expire and snag it or offer to buy out the
owner.

On the point about aggressively pursuing because they have to.  That's a
complete and total cop-out, if that were the case then Twitter would be
going after ALL offenders and not the select bad guys, if someone gives
twitter a warm fuzzy they view it as ok.  According to your statement (and I
reviewed the laws a while back on trademarks but will go look again) they
can loose their trademark for this action alone.

 - Jeremy

PS: I'm still not a lawyer, I still hate the product, but I still hate the
thought more.  Of course, their CD order is little more than a notice to
disconnect :)

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:


 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Jeremy
 Darlingjeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote:
  Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that
 trademark
  against a URL, can't be done.  If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people
  left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com)
 as
  well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names
  LOL.  Several other companies have tried this as well and failed.
 
  As for Twitter TOS and developer rights.  Nope, can't sue for voilation
 of a
  TOS on a public API either.  You can suspend suspect activities and
 revoke
  developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS
  violation of this type.  Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject.
 
  On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in
  valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point
 in
  most cases.
 
  Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be
  Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the company that
  was un-true.  In that case, they could get you for everything your worth
  LOL.  Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the same
 laws
  as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically have to
 suck
  it up in the end.
 
   - Jeremy
 

 Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case.

 Twitter can most definitely enforce their trademark here.

 ∞ Andy Badera
 ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
 ∞ Google me:
 http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)http://www.google.com/search?q=%28andrew+badera%29+OR+%28andy+badera%29



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dean Collins
So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get 
an email last night?

 

 

twittercounter.com

twitterfall.com

twitter-friends.com

www.twitter.ca

www.tinytwitter.com

www.twitterbuttons.com

www.accessibletwitter.com

twitterfeed.com

twitterpatterns.com

www.twitterlocal.net

www.twitterbackgrounds.com

twittergallery.com

twitteranalyzer.com

whentwitterisdown.com

destroytwitter.com

blog.twittervotereport.com

twitter.pbworks.com

twitter.polldaddy.com

twitter.alltop.com

twitter.infinityward.com

twitter.grader.com

 

 

Regards,

Dean Collins
d...@mytwitterbutler.com 
mailto:d...@mytwitterbutler.com?subject=i'm%20being%20Sued 
+1-212-203-4357   New York
+61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
+44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).

 

 



From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Darling
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:12 AM
To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com
Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

 

Actually, I recall it perfectly well.  MS threatened action against Mike Roe (a 
Canadian student as I recall) for his development company.  The case was 
settled OUT OF COURT, with MS basically having to purchase his domain.  The 
same could be applied to this product where Twitter can not demand the URL but 
they can wait for it to expire and snag it or offer to buy out the owner.

On the point about aggressively pursuing because they have to.  That's a 
complete and total cop-out, if that were the case then Twitter would be going 
after ALL offenders and not the select bad guys, if someone gives twitter a 
warm fuzzy they view it as ok.  According to your statement (and I reviewed the 
laws a while back on trademarks but will go look again) they can loose their 
trademark for this action alone.

 - Jeremy

PS: I'm still not a lawyer, I still hate the product, but I still hate the 
thought more.  Of course, their CD order is little more than a notice to 
disconnect :)

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Jeremy
Darlingjeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote:
 Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that trademark
 against a URL, can't be done.  If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people
 left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com) as
 well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names
 LOL.  Several other companies have tried this as well and failed.

 As for Twitter TOS and developer rights.  Nope, can't sue for voilation of a
 TOS on a public API either.  You can suspend suspect activities and revoke
 developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS
 violation of this type.  Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject.

 On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in
 valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point in
 most cases.

 Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be
 Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the company that
 was un-true.  In that case, they could get you for everything your worth
 LOL.  Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the same laws
 as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically have to suck
 it up in the end.

  - Jeremy


Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case.

Twitter can most definitely enforce their trademark here.

∞ Andy Badera
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera) 
http://www.google.com/search?q=%28andrew+badera%29+OR+%28andy+badera%29 

 



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dewald Pretorius

Now, with that kind of clause in a Developer TOS, would it mean
applications will need to actively prevent users from violating
Twitter TOS?

For example, would Tweetie and TweetDeck then be in violation if they
did not prevent users from:

a) Publishing the same tweet text more than once in short succession,

b) Publishing tweets that all contain links,

c) Publishing the same tweet text on more than one account, etc.

In the final analysis, and not to alienate the developer community,
the onus should rest on the Twitter account holder to understand and
comply with Twitter TOS, regardless of what tool is put at his
disposal.

This does not mean Twitter cannot and should not put certain clear
definitions of what an application can and cannot do in a Developer
TOS. The aforementioned enabling others to violate Twitter TOS is
probably just not one of them, now that I have thought about it a bit
more.

That's just my 2 cents.

Dewald

On Aug 12, 10:44 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Might qualify as a safe harbor issue ...

 ∞ Andy Badera
 ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
 ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Neil Ellis
Seriously Dean I'm afraid that your application (like a mass mailer)  
is the kind of the thing that spammers use to fill up our followers  
list with a bunch of real estate agents and 'social media experts'.  
Mass following actually harms the community on Twitter which is the  
reason that you will be finding less sympathy than you expected.


Obviously you're bright enough to write applications, rather than dig  
yourself a hole on this list, why not take a step back and consider  
what else you could do with those skills. I'm sure you could write an  
application that contributed to the community more now that you have  
the experience of writing Twitter applications. I understand that you  
must be feeling upset, who wouldn't when they get legalese schtick  
through the email. It's not nice. But they have a point and you have  
the opportunity to graciously accept the situation and move on to your  
next idea. The most valuable thing is your skill and entrepreneurial  
spirit, not a micro app.


I wish you good luck in your endeavors.

peace
Neil

On 12 Aug 2009, at 15:14, Dean Collins wrote:

So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did  
they also get an email last night?



twittercounter.com
twitterfall.com
twitter-friends.com
www.twitter.ca
www.tinytwitter.com
www.twitterbuttons.com
www.accessibletwitter.com
twitterfeed.com
twitterpatterns.com
www.twitterlocal.net
www.twitterbackgrounds.com
twittergallery.com
twitteranalyzer.com
whentwitterisdown.com
destroytwitter.com
blog.twittervotereport.com
twitter.pbworks.com
twitter.polldaddy.com
twitter.alltop.com
twitter.infinityward.com
twitter.grader.com


Regards,
Dean Collins
d...@mytwitterbutler.com
+1-212-203-4357   New York
+61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
+44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).


From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com 
] On Behalf Of Jeremy Darling

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:12 AM
To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com
Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

Actually, I recall it perfectly well.  MS threatened action against  
Mike Roe (a Canadian student as I recall) for his development  
company.  The case was settled OUT OF COURT, with MS basically  
having to purchase his domain.  The same could be applied to this  
product where Twitter can not demand the URL but they can wait for  
it to expire and snag it or offer to buy out the owner.


On the point about aggressively pursuing because they have to.   
That's a complete and total cop-out, if that were the case then  
Twitter would be going after ALL offenders and not the select bad  
guys, if someone gives twitter a warm fuzzy they view it as ok.   
According to your statement (and I reviewed the laws a while back on  
trademarks but will go look again) they can loose their trademark  
for this action alone.


 - Jeremy

PS: I'm still not a lawyer, I still hate the product, but I still  
hate the thought more.  Of course, their CD order is little more  
than a notice to disconnect :)


On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us  
wrote:


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Jeremy
Darlingjeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote:
 Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that  
trademark
 against a URL, can't be done.  If so, MicroSoft would have nailed  
people
 left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and  
IE8.com) as
 well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product  
names

 LOL.  Several other companies have tried this as well and failed.

 As for Twitter TOS and developer rights.  Nope, can't sue for  
voilation of a
 TOS on a public API either.  You can suspend suspect activities  
and revoke

 developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS
 violation of this type.  Lots of statuatory presidence on the  
subject.


 On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly  
labeled in
 valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates  
this point in

 most cases.

 Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be
 Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the  
company that
 was un-true.  In that case, they could get you for everything your  
worth
 LOL.  Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the  
same laws
 as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically  
have to suck

 it up in the end.

  - Jeremy


Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case.

Twitter can most definitely enforce their trademark here.

∞ Andy Badera
∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+ 
badera)






[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Duane Roelands

Are any of these developers -selling- their products?  You are.
Are any of these developers violating the Terms of Service?  You are.

Just because another website has Twitter in the name doesn't make
their situation the same as yours.

You made a tool for spammers.  You get caught.  Get over it.

On Aug 12, 10:14 am, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote:
 So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also 
 get an email last night?


Auto-following (WAS: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!)

2009-08-12 Thread Chris Babcock

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:17:27 -0700
Dale Merritt mogul...@gmail.com wrote:

 What is Twitters real stance on auto following?  In there API they
 prohibit mass following so what does that mean exactly.  More than
 1, 100?  In my app, I had planned on integrating some meaniful auto
 following

I'm sure that someone could clarify stance if you could clarify
meaningful. :-)

I think what's missing from the API here isn't hard limits, but a
shared vocabulary for describing social design.

We have this in the API TOS:

 4. Do not create a bot to promote mass following. Twitter
enables users to find and connect with people. Mass
following does not help users find interesting connections.
Applications found to be promoting valueless mass-following
or following-ponzi schemes will be promptly blacklisted. So
please, spend your time developing something that helps
users find people with interesting connections.

It's clear to me that the intent of the rule is an appeal to social
design. What is mass following? is the wrong question. The right
questions would be What are interesting connections? and How do I
help people find them?

I'm writing a game application that might auto return follows because
it relies on DMs for a communication channel. I don't have any doubts
about where this app stands with this rule. Finding other people who
play the game definitely helps users find interesting connections.

Another app might autofollow those who post on certain topics and
retweet posts that are on-topic for the Bot, effectively amplifying
certain channels and making it easier to find posts and posters. I
think that this is likely an edge case. A bot that doesn't provide any
additional filtering or processing over a saved search doesn't really
serve any purpose other than promoting a mass following, while an
application that adds value to the data stream could develop an immense
following because it helps users find people with interesting
connections.

Chris Babcock



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Rich

and I'm certain the reason for adding the Twitter name violation in
there in addition to all the others is that they don't want their name
associated with, what is effectively a Web 2.0 spamming operation.

On Aug 12, 3:55 pm, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote:
 Are any of these developers -selling- their products?  You are.
 Are any of these developers violating the Terms of Service?  You are.

 Just because another website has Twitter in the name doesn't make
 their situation the same as yours.

 You made a tool for spammers.  You get caught.  Get over it.

 On Aug 12, 10:14 am, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote:

  So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also 
  get an email last night?


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dean Collins
Hi Neil

 

So i guess what Fenwick and Webb are saying is if i manually log into twitter 
and click to follow each of the people who just wrote about my application 
thats ok

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=mytwitterbutler 
http://search.twitter.com/search?q=mytwitterbutler 

 

BUT if i use a little .Net application to do it Then I'm breaking the ‘Law’ 
and must - Cease and Desist

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Dean

 

 



From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Ellis
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:52 AM
To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com
Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

 

Seriously Dean I'm afraid that your application (like a mass mailer) is the 
kind of the thing that spammers use to fill up our followers list with a bunch 
of real estate agents and 'social media experts'. Mass following actually harms 
the community on Twitter which is the reason that you will be finding less 
sympathy than you expected.

 

Obviously you're bright enough to write applications, rather than dig yourself 
a hole on this list, why not take a step back and consider what else you could 
do with those skills. I'm sure you could write an application that contributed 
to the community more now that you have the experience of writing Twitter 
applications. I understand that you must be feeling upset, who wouldn't when 
they get legalese schtick through the email. It's not nice. But they have a 
point and you have the opportunity to graciously accept the situation and move 
on to your next idea. The most valuable thing is your skill and entrepreneurial 
spirit, not a micro app.

 

I wish you good luck in your endeavors.

 

peace

Neil

 

On 12 Aug 2009, at 15:14, Dean Collins wrote:





So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get 
an email last night?

 

 

twittercounter.com

twitterfall.com

twitter-friends.com

www.twitter.ca

www.tinytwitter.com

www.twitterbuttons.com

www.accessibletwitter.com

twitterfeed.com

twitterpatterns.com

www.twitterlocal.net

www.twitterbackgrounds.com

twittergallery.com

twitteranalyzer.com

whentwitterisdown.com

destroytwitter.com

blog.twittervotereport.com

twitter.pbworks.com

twitter.polldaddy.com

twitter.alltop.com

twitter.infinityward.com

twitter.grader.com

 

 

Regards,

Dean Collins
d...@mytwitterbutler.com 
mailto:d...@mytwitterbutler.com?subject=i'm%20being%20Sued 
+1-212-203-4357   New York
+61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
+44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).

 

 



From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Darling
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:12 AM
To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com
Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

 

Actually, I recall it perfectly well.  MS threatened action against Mike Roe (a 
Canadian student as I recall) for his development company.  The case was 
settled OUT OF COURT, with MS basically having to purchase his domain.  The 
same could be applied to this product where Twitter can not demand the URL but 
they can wait for it to expire and snag it or offer to buy out the owner.

On the point about aggressively pursuing because they have to.  That's a 
complete and total cop-out, if that were the case then Twitter would be going 
after ALL offenders and not the select bad guys, if someone gives twitter a 
warm fuzzy they view it as ok.  According to your statement (and I reviewed the 
laws a while back on trademarks but will go look again) they can loose their 
trademark for this action alone.

 - Jeremy

PS: I'm still not a lawyer, I still hate the product, but I still hate the 
thought more.  Of course, their CD order is little more than a notice to 
disconnect :)

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote:


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Jeremy
Darlingjeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote:
 Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that trademark
 against a URL, can't be done.  If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people
 left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com) as
 well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names
 LOL.  Several other companies have tried this as well and failed.

 As for Twitter TOS and developer rights.  Nope, can't sue for voilation of a
 TOS on a public API either.  You can suspend suspect activities and revoke
 developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS
 violation of this type.  Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject.

 On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in
 valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point in
 most cases.

 Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be
 Slander/Liable if you

[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Charles

Has nothing to do with anything.

Enforce your trademark evenly or don't enforce it at all.  Selective
enforcement is not allowed.

On Aug 12, 10:57 am, Rich rhyl...@gmail.com wrote:
 and I'm certain the reason for adding the Twitter name violation in
 there in addition to all the others is that they don't want their name
 associated with, what is effectively a Web 2.0 spamming operation.

 On Aug 12, 3:55 pm, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote:

  Are any of these developers -selling- their products?  You are.
  Are any of these developers violating the Terms of Service?  You are.

  Just because another website has Twitter in the name doesn't make
  their situation the same as yours.

  You made a tool for spammers.  You get caught.  Get over it.

  On Aug 12, 10:14 am, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote:

   So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they 
   also get an email last night?


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Charles

I love how in this discussion people keep trying to bring emotion and
personal beliefs into a legal context.

So he made a tool for spammers.  What does that have to do with
anything?

First they came for the Spammers and I didn’t speak up, because I
wasn’t a Spammer.

There are two LEGAL issues here

- The Twitter Trademark

- Violation of TOS

Twitter trademark - as has been mentioned by many - you can NOT
selectively enforce a trademark.  I don't care what the application's
intended use.

As for the violation of TOS - the section of the TOS that Chris quoted
is explicit, but then goes vague by injecting brevity and 'kindas'.
Strict interpretation would evaluate that Chris's game application is
in violation of the TOS.   Unfortunately most of the Twitter TOS is
vague.  Every application you write requires an evaluation against
nothing certain.  'Hmmm this service provides value to me, and I
believe it provides value to the Twitter community that it targets,
but will it provide value to the Twitter lawyers?'

I don't know the specifics of the My Twitter Butler application but
there is probably wiggle room.

On Aug 12, 10:55 am, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote:
 Are any of these developers -selling- their products?  You are.
 Are any of these developers violating the Terms of Service?  You are.

 Just because another website has Twitter in the name doesn't make
 their situation the same as yours.

 You made a tool for spammers.  You get caught.  Get over it.

 On Aug 12, 10:14 am, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote:

  So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also 
  get an email last night?


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Neil Ellis


First they came for the Spammers and I didn’t speak up, because I
wasn’t a Spammer.



Oh really, spammers being banned equated to the Holocuast, perspective  
required.





On Aug 12, 10:55 am, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote:

Are any of these developers -selling- their products?  You are.
Are any of these developers violating the Terms of Service?  You are.

Just because another website has Twitter in the name doesn't make
their situation the same as yours.

You made a tool for spammers.  You get caught.  Get over it.

On Aug 12, 10:14 am, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote:

So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did  
they also get an email last night?




[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Neil Ellis


I pity the fool who wakes up to this thread in the morning :-)



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dossy Shiobara


On 8/12/09 10:14 AM, Dean Collins wrote:

So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they
also get an email last night?


IANAL, but, I think the horse has already left the barn for Twitter.

Unless someone is building a short-message service called Twitter it's 
hard to claim dilution here.


The few years that Twitter hasn't policed the infringing use of their 
mark should be reasonable basis for estoppel, too.


However, all legal issues aside, they can still shut down third-party 
services from using their API or otherwise accessing their service, 
which is probably stronger than the actual legal recourse they may be 
entitled to.


--
Dossy Shiobara  | do...@panoptic.com | http://dossy.org/
Panoptic Computer Network   | http://panoptic.com/
  He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own
folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Neil Ellis

Hi Dean

Well yes. It's like saying if I send one email that's okay but if I  
bulk email 100 people then it's regarded as wrong. Yes I'm afraid  
it is.


You see from a users point of view, receiving lots of follower  
notifications from people who aren't interested in you drowns out the  
really useful ones of someone who is genuinely interested. It really  
soils the experience of Twitter and quite naturally their trying to  
rectify it.


I can understand how you feel Dean - CD is not the nice way of doing  
things, it's certainly not friendly.


Again, I know it's unpleasant for you, but if you can turn your anger  
into motivated action you will a) avoid making enemies of Twitter b)  
come up with another application in no time. Learning the APIs etc.  
would have been the bulk of your efforts. Now that's done why not  
refocus onto another one, you'll spend less energy doing that then  
dealing with CD. Social networking is a big area still and we haven't  
finished yet, so keep on the board and ride the wave, if nothing else  
try and chalk it up to experience and you'll be the wiser for it.


Good luck with future endeavors
Neil


On 12 Aug 2009, at 16:05, Dean Collins wrote:


Hi Neil

So i guess what Fenwick and Webb are saying is if i manually log  
into twitter and click to follow each of the people who just wrote  
about my application thats ok


http://search.twitter.com/search?q=mytwitterbutler

BUT if i use a little .Net application to do it Then I'm breaking  
the ‘Law’ and must - Cease and Desist






Cheers,
Dean


From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com 
] On Behalf Of Neil Ellis

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:52 AM
To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com
Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

Seriously Dean I'm afraid that your application (like a mass mailer)  
is the kind of the thing that spammers use to fill up our followers  
list with a bunch of real estate agents and 'social media experts'.  
Mass following actually harms the community on Twitter which is the  
reason that you will be finding less sympathy than you expected.


Obviously you're bright enough to write applications, rather than  
dig yourself a hole on this list, why not take a step back and  
consider what else you could do with those skills. I'm sure you  
could write an application that contributed to the community more  
now that you have the experience of writing Twitter applications. I  
understand that you must be feeling upset, who wouldn't when they  
get legalese schtick through the email. It's not nice. But they have  
a point and you have the opportunity to graciously accept the  
situation and move on to your next idea. The most valuable thing is  
your skill and entrepreneurial spirit, not a micro app.


I wish you good luck in your endeavors.

peace
Neil

On 12 Aug 2009, at 15:14, Dean Collins wrote:


So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did  
they also get an email last night?



twittercounter.com
twitterfall.com
twitter-friends.com
www.twitter.ca
www.tinytwitter.com
www.twitterbuttons.com
www.accessibletwitter.com
twitterfeed.com
twitterpatterns.com
www.twitterlocal.net
www.twitterbackgrounds.com
twittergallery.com
twitteranalyzer.com
whentwitterisdown.com
destroytwitter.com
blog.twittervotereport.com
twitter.pbworks.com
twitter.polldaddy.com
twitter.alltop.com
twitter.infinityward.com
twitter.grader.com


Regards,
Dean Collins
d...@mytwitterbutler.com
+1-212-203-4357   New York
+61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
+44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).


From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com 
] On Behalf Of Jeremy Darling

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:12 AM
To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com
Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

Actually, I recall it perfectly well.  MS threatened action against  
Mike Roe (a Canadian student as I recall) for his development  
company.  The case was settled OUT OF COURT, with MS basically  
having to purchase his domain.  The same could be applied to this  
product where Twitter can not demand the URL but they can wait for  
it to expire and snag it or offer to buy out the owner.


On the point about aggressively pursuing because they have to.   
That's a complete and total cop-out, if that were the case then  
Twitter would be going after ALL offenders and not the select bad  
guys, if someone gives twitter a warm fuzzy they view it as ok.   
According to your statement (and I reviewed the laws a while back on  
trademarks but will go look again) they can loose their trademark  
for this action alone.


 - Jeremy

PS: I'm still not a lawyer, I still hate the product, but I still  
hate the thought more.  Of course, their CD order is little more  
than a notice to disconnect :)


On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us  
wrote

[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Goblin

Here's a thought, if Twitter has allowed a specific site to have their
application name added to the posted from list, is that tacit
permission to use the name? They've been happy to show messages as
posted from Twitteriffic, which uses their name and, it could be
argued, have explicitly allowed this use.

On Aug 12, 4:43 pm, Dossy Shiobara do...@panoptic.com wrote:
 On 8/12/09 10:14 AM, Dean Collins wrote:

  So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they
  also get an email last night?

 IANAL, but, I think the horse has already left the barn for Twitter.

 Unless someone is building a short-message service called Twitter it's
 hard to claim dilution here.

 The few years that Twitter hasn't policed the infringing use of their
 mark should be reasonable basis for estoppel, too.

 However, all legal issues aside, they can still shut down third-party
 services from using their API or otherwise accessing their service,
 which is probably stronger than the actual legal recourse they may be
 entitled to.

 --
 Dossy Shiobara              | do...@panoptic.com |http://dossy.org/
 Panoptic Computer Network   |http://panoptic.com/
    He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own
      folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dewald Pretorius

I believe that threatening with legal action was the secondary choice
for Twitter.

The first choice would have been simply blackholing the IP address of
Dean's application. However, that's impossible because it's a .Net app
that makes calls from each user's IP address, much like Tweetie and
TweetDeck.

Was it a good move? I don't know.

Now they have created yet another round of potentially bad publicity
for Twitter, and they have put fear and uncertainty in the minds of
all application developers who have a domain name with twitter in
it.

Dewald


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Bob Fishel

Oh come on, you're just being disingenous now. First they came for
the pedophiles First they came for the muderers

Today's society is to worried about offending someone to acknowledge
the fact that YES there are univseral rights and universal wrongs.
That is not to say that there isn't a difference between premeditated
murder and self defense but it is perfectly acceptable to say that
Premeditated Murder is ALWAYS wrong, even if for some reason it isn't
illegal.

In this case spamming is ALWAYS wrong. Again you need to allow for
definitions. Asking to receive announcements from Dell and then having
Dell follow you is on thing. But having someone autofollow you with
800 different PC resellers becasue you posted a tweet saying look at
the great deal #Dell has today is WRONG.

Emotional and personal beliefs SHOULD have a place in legal context
and largely do in our society (read up on Jury nullification if you're
interested)

As another extreme example: Datamining Myspace (if it's possible I've
never worked with it) for 12 year olds names and addresses etc...
COULD have a purposeful use in advertising but if your $12 product is
being used by 99% of people to find children to attack then your
product is WRONG and needs to come off the market.

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Charlescharles.r.dil...@gmail.com wrote:

 I love how in this discussion people keep trying to bring emotion and
 personal beliefs into a legal context.

 So he made a tool for spammers.  What does that have to do with
 anything?

 First they came for the Spammers and I didn’t speak up, because I
 wasn’t a Spammer.
 *SNIP*


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dewald Pretorius

Bob,

Perhaps I'm being daft, but how can someone following you be spam or
wrong, regardless of whether it is manual or auto follow?

If you don't follow them, you don't see their tweets, and they cannot
DM you.

In other words, what does it matter if 50,000 undesirable accounts
follow you, except for perhaps a minor personal irritation? Do you
want to be selective about who is allowed and who is not allowed to
follow you?

Dewald

On Aug 12, 1:50 pm, Bob Fishel b...@bobforthejob.com wrote:
 In this case spamming is ALWAYS wrong. Again you need to allow for
 definitions. Asking to receive announcements from Dell and then having
 Dell follow you is on thing. But having someone autofollow you with
 800 different PC resellers becasue you posted a tweet saying look at
 the great deal #Dell has today is WRONG.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Scott Haneda


It may get even harder and open the door to an already hot topic with  
T.W.I.T.  (The Week In Tech) which is a show by Leo Laporte.


I believe this show pre-dates the use of twit, and nay pre-date  
Twitter. I seem to recall at some point Leo Laporte would not even use  
Twitter as a result of feeling they were infinging on his name.


I don't know the trademark status with regard to this, but he has been  
vocal about it to say the least.


If anything, Laporte has prior art in this one.
--
Scott
Iphone says hello.

On Aug 12, 2009, at 4:55 AM, Goblin stu...@abovetheinternet.org wrote:


The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic,
Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon,
iTwitter etc?

I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as
I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version
is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone
with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious
issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect
trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :(


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Neil Ellis


Dewald

Honest question honest answer 

If someone follows me, I'd like to find out about them and see if I'd  
like to follow them, I'd like to consider becoming friends with this  
person.


How can I do that if 80% of my follows are Real Estate Agents. It  
wastes my time, it's annoying and pollutes my inbox. I think you'll  
find quite a few people are tired of this annoyance. I'd like to get  
to know my followers not have 3000 numpties following me.



ATB
Neil
On 12 Aug 2009, at 18:07, Dewald Pretorius wrote:



Bob,

Perhaps I'm being daft, but how can someone following you be spam or
wrong, regardless of whether it is manual or auto follow?

If you don't follow them, you don't see their tweets, and they cannot
DM you.

In other words, what does it matter if 50,000 undesirable accounts
follow you, except for perhaps a minor personal irritation? Do you
want to be selective about who is allowed and who is not allowed to
follow you?

Dewald

On Aug 12, 1:50 pm, Bob Fishel b...@bobforthejob.com wrote:

In this case spamming is ALWAYS wrong. Again you need to allow for
definitions. Asking to receive announcements from Dell and then  
having

Dell follow you is on thing. But having someone autofollow you with
800 different PC resellers becasue you posted a tweet saying look at
the great deal #Dell has today is WRONG.




[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Neil Ellis



 All this stuff about following being equated to spamming is nonsense.


really, glad you cleared that up ;-)



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Abraham Williams
Me :(

2009/8/12 Neil Ellis neilellis1...@googlemail.com

 I pity the fool who wakes up to this thread in the morning :-)




-- 
Abraham Williams | Community Evangelist | http://web608.org
Hacker | http://abrah.am | http://twitter.com/abraham
Project | http://fireeagle.labs.poseurtech.com
This email is: [ ] blogable [x] ask first [ ] private.
Sent from Fairbanks, Alaska, United States


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Neil Ellis

Good morning Abraham ;-)

On 12 Aug 2009, at 18:20, Abraham Williams wrote:


Me :(

2009/8/12 Neil Ellis neilellis1...@googlemail.com
I pity the fool who wakes up to this thread in the morning :-)



--
Abraham Williams | Community Evangelist | http://web608.org
Hacker | http://abrah.am | http://twitter.com/abraham
Project | http://fireeagle.labs.poseurtech.com
This email is: [ ] blogable [x] ask first [ ] private.
Sent from Fairbanks, Alaska, United States




[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Zac Bowling


 Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case.



The deal with MikeRoweSoft is a different issue then this one. Mike
Rowe was perfectly fine in his use. However when Microsoft sent him a
CD and said they would pay $
Zac Bowling


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Scott Haneda


I don't know how we get to the point of meaningful auto following.  
That seems hard to define.


If I post a tweet mentioning photography I get 5-10 new followers in  
a few minutes. Use the word cock or pussy and the auto follow rate  
is higher. Hash tags are vulnerable here as well.


In most cases, I've yet to see them come back and solicit me in any  
way, so I will never notice them aside from my wrongly inflated follow  
metrics.


Under what conditions could any automated system follow someone in a  
meaningful way?  There is no way to tell context.


My suggestion is that the apps should bring in a list of suggested  
followers. The user of the app must review the list, and the  
corresponding tweets and decide to follow or not.


Further, after a follow has been established, you should not  
communicate with that person in an unsolicited way. Treat it like  
email/spam.


If I am bashing a brand and they want to make good on my issues, they  
can tweet me. They need not even follow me to start this relationship.  
If they want to DM me they can then start that relationship.


For Starbucks to auto follow because I said starbucks sucks is not  
meaningful.


To me, the nature of auto follow shows a wanting to use Twitter as a  
way to market, brand, and build relationships. That much is fine. But  
they want to do so in as easy a way possible. That is where I draw the  
line.


If you want to market to me, you must put in the time to learn about  
me and my value to your brand. Having a robot do it for you is dirty,  
and in the end, will probably hurt more than help.


If someone can tell me how automatic auto follow is not analogous to  
the end result of a spam network, my opinion may change. In the end,  
there is no easy way to build and establish relationships with your  
end users. Either do the work, or stop abusing Twitter.


* The above statements are a generality, the OP may have learned a  
meaningful way to auto follow that I am not seeing. I do not intend to  
call out the OP in any way.

--
Scott
Iphone says hello.

On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:17 AM, Dale Merritt mogul...@gmail.com wrote:

What is Twitters real stance on auto following?  In there API they  
prohibit mass following so what does that mean exactly.  More than  
1, 100?  In my app, I had planned on integrating some meaniful auto  
following


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Scott Haneda


The second you can play drinking games based on how many times a  
company is mentioned on local news; I think that companies ability to  
be clear and unambiguous becomes as hard as not getting hammered in  
5 minutes of watching the news.


--
Scott
Iphone says hello.

On Aug 12, 2009, at 6:04 AM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote:


Logically, isn't it necessary that a clear and unambiguous definition
of aggressive following to be publicly available before any legal
action can be based on it?


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Zac Bowling


 Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case.



The deal with MikeRoweSoft is a different issue then this one. Mike
Rowe was perfectly fine in his use. However when Microsoft sent him a
CD and said they would pay $100 (IIRC) for his domain. His mistake
was saying yah, maybe for a $1,000,000.00 in jest. Doing so was
enough to claim that his intent wasn't for his own his own fair use
but to hold Microsoft to pay for it. Microsoft tried to force it to
domain arbitration when it turned into a PR issue for Microsoft being
seen as the big bad bully for taking down a 16 year old kids personal
page, so they backed down and gave him a bunch of free stuff.

Using Twitter in a domain name directly related to a service that
involves Twitter is a whole other issue that pretty much can get you
in a lot of trouble.



Zac Bowling


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Scott Haneda
I was always under the impression trademarks came down to a reasonable  
expectation that users could be confused as to which was the original  
name.


In the example of the Edge iPhone game, he was called out against  
using Edge as a name since there was a shady software development  
house that owned the mark in the gaming industry. There very well  
could have been confusion.


Edge can safely be used in other industry. If I started Edge  
Clothing I suspect there would be no confusion and no issue.


Twitter makes sense, their only presence being the web. A user who  
hears Twitter, downloads a Twitter app by searching for one in their  
mobile store, could easily walk away thinking that mobile app is  
Twitter. They could easily think they are at the source.


I don't see why they care, they care about service users. Alienate the  
3rd part apps and Twitter is going back in time, not forward. It is  
the existance of this API that I believe made Twitter what it is.


But tweet, I don't know the history. Is it like hash tags, a user  
invented term for an action within the service?


To me, this is as if eBay tries to trademark selling because that is  
the verb describing what you do within the service. Tweet is the verb  
within the service, and likely was user crafted anyway.


All technical and legal issues aside, this boils down to just doing  
the right thing. Trademark Twitter, that seems fair and smart. There  
will be some fallout while protecting the name, but that is just part  
of the process.


Trademark tweet, and you are doing the wrong thing. From podcasting,  
syncing, downloading, IM'ing, DM'ing, texting, etc. Just leave it alone.


They will do far better to allow the word to become more a household  
term, than to aggravate everyone.


--
Scott
Iphone says hello.

On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Vision Jinx vjn...@gmail.com wrote:


FYI - mashable.com just posted a story on this here
http://mashable.com/2009/08/12/twitter-not-suing-developer/

Interesting to know that if Twitter gets the trademark for Tweet
also what about the apps and businesses that have been using it before
the claim like TweetDeck etc etc? Seems they would have a justifiable
claim to the name also? How does that work?

Not sure about the US but where I am if someone has made a stable
reputation from a name they are also entitled to a trademark clause
for it regardless if they officially trademarked it. (in my own words)

The owner of a common law trademark may also file suit, but an
unregistered mark may be protectable only within the geographical area
within which it has been used or in geographical areas into which it
may be reasonably expected to expand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV either so seek
your own legal council regarding it.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Scott Haneda


I am not a lawyer, but everything I have read about this makes the  
below impossible.  If you have a trademark on a name, you MUST protect  
it.  Failure to protect it, results in loss of the mark.


The quote below, clearly states that Twitter is not going to protect  
this mark.  That being the case, they will lose the mark, making the  
filing and costs associated with it a complete waste.


The statement below very well may invalidate the mark entirely.

On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:52 AM, Rich wrote:

I'm not aware of this but this link http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html 
,

published only last month says

We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to
Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going
after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in
their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use
of the word Tweet.


--
Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread avail4one
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote:


 I am not a lawyer, but everything I have read about this makes the below
 impossible.  If you have a trademark on a name, you MUST protect it.
  Failure to protect it, results in loss of the mark.

 The quote below, clearly states that Twitter is not going to protect this
 mark.  That being the case, they will lose the mark, making the filing and
 costs associated with it a complete waste.


yeah me no atty neither. lol. wonder what they put for 'mark first used in
commerce' - maybe in the future? ;-)


-- 
\./'\./ /'\ \ ]. /'\./'\ /'\ /'\./


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Scott Haneda


Others use your following and follower list as a way to bridge new  
connections to interesting people.


If I am interested in Person X, I can look at who is following him,  
and know that others are probably of like minds.  I can dig into their  
list of followers and following, and build deeper relationships that  
are only separated by small degrees.


If I go to someone's account and they have 500 followers, 90% of them  
are adult porn and social media experts, not only do I get the wrong  
impression as to what that person is about, but I also have a  
completely off kilter signal to noise ratio.


On Aug 12, 2009, at 10:07 AM, Dewald Pretorius wrote:


In other words, what does it matter if 50,000 undesirable accounts
follow you, except for perhaps a minor personal irritation? Do you
want to be selective about who is allowed and who is not allowed to
follow you?


--
Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dossy Shiobara


On 8/12/09 12:50 PM, Bob Fishel wrote:

As another extreme example: Datamining Myspace (if it's possible I've
never worked with it) for 12 year olds names and addresses etc...
COULD have a purposeful use in advertising but if your $12 product is
being used by 99% of people to find children to attack then your
product is WRONG and needs to come off the market.


Universal wrongs?

YOU are WRONG.

Guns don't kill people.  People kill people.

See what I did there?

--
Dossy Shiobara  | do...@panoptic.com | http://dossy.org/
Panoptic Computer Network   | http://panoptic.com/
  He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own
folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Adam Cloud
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote:


 Perhaps I'm being daft, but how can someone following you be spam or
 wrong, regardless of whether it is manual or auto follow?



It can be spam if you had your account sent to auto-notify your phone or
inbox when someone follows you. 1 spam follower won't make a dent, but if
one spam follower is allowed to 'live' more will follow, and thats when it
gets fun.

Take into account the fact that many twitter had to reach deals with phone
companies for their bulk texts. If they see a substantial increase in texts
sent out as result of this, they may have to renegotiate. Re-negotiations
waste time :)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dewald Pretorius

Adam,

It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam.

You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it
is NOT spam.

Dewald

On Aug 12, 3:46 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote:
 It can be spam if you had your account sent to auto-notify your phone or
 inbox when someone follows you. 1 spam follower won't make a dent, but if
 one spam follower is allowed to 'live' more will follow, and thats when it
 gets fun.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread owkaye

 I surely hope people would not judge
 me based on who is following me.

They won't unless they are stupid.  After all, Twitter gives 
you no way to control who follows you, and most people 
understand this.


 Followers do no, zero, nada harm. 
 Just let them be.

Agreed. 


Owkaye






[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread owkaye

  Perhaps I'm being daft, but how can someone following
  you be spam or wrong, regardless of whether it is
  manual or auto follow?

 It can be spam if you had your account sent to
 auto-notify your phone or inbox when someone follows you.

You're wrong.

SPAM only exists when you do NOT ask for commercial messages 
to be sent to you, and in this case clearly you are asking 
for it.

Owkaye






[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Adam Cloud
**sigh** Dewald, on a technicality, you're completely right. We did opt in.
It was originally a convenience to opt int, so you knew you were being
followed. However since the count of bots has increased, it's now an
inconvenience to constantly get follow emails\texts from bots. Perhaps they
could rename it, now, to Check box to increase twitter to inbox\phone
traffic

Maybe one of us could add to one of our Apps the ability to notify
*after*having gone through a screening processes of some sort to see
if the account
resembles a bot :)
Of course it wont' be perfect because at the beginning of the twitterbot
life, they look like a normal user lol

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote:


 Adam,

 It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam.

 You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it
 is NOT spam.

 Dewald

 On Aug 12, 3:46 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote:
  It can be spam if you had your account sent to auto-notify your phone or
  inbox when someone follows you. 1 spam follower won't make a dent, but if
  one spam follower is allowed to 'live' more will follow, and thats when
 it
  gets fun.



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread David Fisher

Let's not get into a semantic argument of spam.

Spam, noise, trash followers, whatever you want to call them. They are
all annoying and not what Twitter or most users want in their
service.

I'm unsure if a company HAS to pursue every trademark infringement to
hold their trademark. Otherwise you could in theory make a company go
bankrupt quickly just by setting up a bunch of shill companies using
similar names and force them to pursue each fully in court. Also there
is no obligation for Twitter to constantly search, identify and sue/
CD/defend against every company worldwide that uses the name Twitter.
Just seems silly. IANAL however and could be wrong.

dave


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dewald Pretorius

Adam,

I know this is off the topic of the thread, but along the same vein,
this whole notion that someone can spam one via DMs is absolutely
bloody bullshit.

By virtue of how Twitter works, when you follow someone, you grant
that person permission to DM you. They can send you the biggest load
of crap, they are not spamming you. You opted in to receive DMs from
them.

Your only recourse is to unfollow them, and thereby remove the
permission you granted them.

Dewald

On Aug 12, 3:56 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote:
 **sigh** Dewald, on a technicality, you're completely right. We did opt in.
 It was originally a convenience to opt int, so you knew you were being
 followed. However since the count of bots has increased, it's now an
 inconvenience to constantly get follow emails\texts from bots. Perhaps they
 could rename it, now, to Check box to increase twitter to inbox\phone
 traffic

 Maybe one of us could add to one of our Apps the ability to notify
 *after*having gone through a screening processes of some sort to see
 if the account
 resembles a bot :)
 Of course it wont' be perfect because at the beginning of the twitterbot
 life, they look like a normal user lol

 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote:

  Adam,

  It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam.

  You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it
  is NOT spam.

  Dewald

  On Aug 12, 3:46 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote:
   It can be spam if you had your account sent to auto-notify your phone or
   inbox when someone follows you. 1 spam follower won't make a dent, but if
   one spam follower is allowed to 'live' more will follow, and thats when
  it
   gets fun.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dewald Pretorius

Scott,

Personally I think that is a mutilation of the use and purpose of
Twitter. I surely hope people would not judge me based on who is
following me.

The only way one can maintain a clean list of people who follow you
is to block those whom you don't want as followers. It is going to
cause the suspension of many innocent Twitter accounts if people block
others simply because they do not agree with their political views,
the way they comb their hair, or their profession.

Followers do no, zero, nada harm. Just let them be.

Dewald

On Aug 12, 3:28 pm, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote:
 If I go to someone's account and they have 500 followers, 90% of them  
 are adult porn and social media experts, not only do I get the wrong  
 impression as to what that person is about, but I also have a  
 completely off kilter signal to noise ratio.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread owkaye

   I surely hope people would not judge
   me based on who is following me.
 
  They won't unless they are stupid.  After all, Twitter
  gives you no way to control who follows you, and most
  people understand this.

 sure they do. it's called blocking. every time a pain
 in the ass porn bot or social media expert following
 100x more people than follow them follows me, i block
 them. then they can't follow me.

I guess I care so little about who is following me that I 
never bothered to learn about this.  Now that I know about 
it I still have no use for it, and I never will ... but it's 
good to know it's available to others I guess.

Owkaye



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dewald Pretorius

But let me immediately add, that is on a technical definition of
spam.

I am fully aware that most people would label as spam any DM that
they do not like.

On Aug 12, 4:03 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Adam,

 I know this is off the topic of the thread, but along the same vein,
 this whole notion that someone can spam one via DMs is absolutely
 bloody bullshit.

 By virtue of how Twitter works, when you follow someone, you grant
 that person permission to DM you. They can send you the biggest load
 of crap, they are not spamming you. You opted in to receive DMs from
 them.

 Your only recourse is to unfollow them, and thereby remove the
 permission you granted them.

 Dewald

 On Aug 12, 3:56 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote:

  **sigh** Dewald, on a technicality, you're completely right. We did opt in.
  It was originally a convenience to opt int, so you knew you were being
  followed. However since the count of bots has increased, it's now an
  inconvenience to constantly get follow emails\texts from bots. Perhaps they
  could rename it, now, to Check box to increase twitter to inbox\phone
  traffic

  Maybe one of us could add to one of our Apps the ability to notify
  *after*having gone through a screening processes of some sort to see
  if the account
  resembles a bot :)
  Of course it wont' be perfect because at the beginning of the twitterbot
  life, they look like a normal user lol

  On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote:

   Adam,

   It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam.

   You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it
   is NOT spam.

   Dewald

   On Aug 12, 3:46 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote:
It can be spam if you had your account sent to auto-notify your phone or
inbox when someone follows you. 1 spam follower won't make a dent, but 
if
one spam follower is allowed to 'live' more will follow, and thats when
   it
gets fun.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Scott Haneda


I used to ass well, this does not work well when number grow.

On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:54 AM, JDG wrote:

sure they do. it's called blocking. every time a pain in the ass  
porn bot or social media expert following 100x more people than  
follow them follows me, i block them. then they can't follow me.


--
Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Adam Cloud
@Thread,

They're not going to be able to force dean to transfer his domain to them.
His domain name isn't confusing, as twitter.com as well established. He also
has a legitimate claim to the domain, regardless of how legitimate the
service that serves as that claim may be. Perhaps they should go in the
direction of the legal gray area that is his service?

@DewaldP,

I don't think i referred to people i followed myself, if i did it was done
by mistake. I completely agree with the DM situation. You followed them
yourselves, you took the action to do it, you can deal with the effects of
that decision.

I'm only talking about the notify traffic generated by being followed by
accounts that twitter wouldn't consider legitimate accounts. I realize
you're a little biased since many of the features you offer on the
professional version of your twitter app would be rendered not necessary
if the spam traffic was eliminated. That girl deserved to have her purse
stolen because she had it out there for everyone to see is how i see
follow spam.



Clarification, when i've used the word inbox, i'm referring to the email
your registered your account on, not your twitter DM inbox.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dewald Pretorius

Note to self: Before painting, first pinpoint all the corners in the
room.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Scott Haneda


On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Dewald Pretorius wrote:


Personally I think that is a mutilation of the use and purpose of
Twitter. I surely hope people would not judge me based on who is
following me.


I would not judge you.  No, I never take it that far.  However,  
consider if a politician was on Twitter, and a mass follow of spam  
porn bots hit that person up.  People unlike you and I, and others on  
the dev list here, very well will get the wrong impression, simply for  
lack of understanding how this all works.


Whether it is a mutilation of the use and purpose, I can certainly see  
your point.  Though to be honest, I do not know a person who has not  
looked up one person, to find who they follow and who follows them.   
It very much is the entire premise of myspace, facebook, and linked in.


I personally use it for that purpose all the time, though I have  
learned based on username and profile picture how to discern a real  
user and a bot pretty easily with relatively good accuracy.


It does muddy the pool, and make me have more pages of stuff to wade  
through.



The only way one can maintain a clean list of people who follow you
is to block those whom you don't want as followers.


Also, you can privatize your account, which to be honest, I wish was  
not even an option, as that indeed is a mutilation of the use and  
purpose of twitter in my humble opinion.


But tell me how feasible it is to remove followers once you get past a  
few thousand?



It is going to
cause the suspension of many innocent Twitter accounts if people block
others simply because they do not agree with their political views,
the way they comb their hair, or their profession.


Can you elaborate on this?  How does a block of a twitter account end  
up as a account suspension?  Do multiple blocks tally up and end up  
being used as a way to suspend an account?



Followers do no, zero, nada harm. Just let them be.


I think I have shown how they do in fact harm. Even at a very basic  
level, if a army of bots were to follow you, say, a million of them,  
what would you do?  You yourself would look like part of the army, you  
would not be able to maintain that account easily, if you put aside  
your ability to programatically remove those bots.


Follower and following as also an at a glance metric I use to see how  
interesting someone may be.  If they have 5000 followers, but only  
follow back 100, I can gauge immediately the type of twitter use that  
person is.  If they have 5000 followers and around the same following  
counts, I know there is no way they are engaging all 5000 of those  
people, and that account has less value to me.


These are pretty rough generalizations, but I certainly do not agree  
with the no harm statement.  It just depends on your use and how you  
define harm, which to me is defined as inconvenience.




On Aug 12, 3:28 pm, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote:

If I go to someone's account and they have 500 followers, 90% of them
are adult porn and social media experts, not only do I get the wrong
impression as to what that person is about, but I also have a
completely off kilter signal to noise ratio.


--
Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Vincent Wright

None of us actually know how this might turn out but, even recognizing
that this could become an uncomfortable matter for MyTwitterButler
and/or Twitter, I nonetheless, decided to ask the question regarding
the 1942 movie Bambi:
Would Twitter Sue Bambi For Being Twitterpated? :-) :
http://mylinkingpowerforum.ning.com/group/twitterpated/forum/topics/would-twitter-sue-bambi-for

Thanks, and Keep STRONG!!
Vincent Wright
Director Of Community
MyLinkingPowerForum.ning.com |


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Robert Fishel

No I don't see what you did there

There are universal wrongs. Guns aren't on of them. Premeditated murder is.
So is spam.

Maybe I'm slow but what are you trying to get at?

-Bob

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Dossy Shiobarado...@panoptic.com wrote:

*SNIP*
 Universal wrongs?

 YOU are WRONG.

 Guns don't kill people.  People kill people.

 See what I did there?

 --
 Dossy Shiobara              | do...@panoptic.com | http://dossy.org/
 Panoptic Computer Network   | http://panoptic.com/
  He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own
    folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread David Fisher

@Vincent

No. Do you not understand that Trademark infringements occur between
things that could be mistaken for each other or in the same industry,
diluting a brand?

A Disney film from the 1940's has what to do with a 3rd part
application for a 2006-present social network?
There is a CLEAR connection between MyTwitterButler and Twitter.
MyTwitterButler is using Twitter as the basis for their business and
clearly in the same brand space.

This isn't uncomfortable for Twitter or MyTwitterButler.

Were you asleep for the whole Apple Computers v Apple Music thing? As
long as they weren't in similar spaces (computers weren't supposed to
make sounds/music initially) everything was ok, but then once Apple
got into music, the stuff got nuts and went to court. No Apple (fruit)
companies were sued however or sent notices.

You guys are so stupid this makes my head hurt.

david

On Aug 12, 3:18 pm, Vincent Wright mylinkedinpowerfo...@gmail.com
wrote:
 None of us actually know how this might turn out but, even recognizing
 that this could become an uncomfortable matter for MyTwitterButler
 and/or Twitter, I nonetheless, decided to ask the question regarding
 the 1942 movie Bambi:
 Would Twitter Sue Bambi For Being Twitterpated? :-) 
 :http://mylinkingpowerforum.ning.com/group/twitterpated/forum/topics/w...

 Thanks, and Keep STRONG!!
 Vincent Wright
 Director Of Community
 MyLinkingPowerForum.ning.com |


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread mcfnord

This incident bounced around in my head today. I think Twitter does
not like the essential nature of this application, to contact members
of its userbase. I would like to know what users of the premium
Twitter Butler product included in their messages. I am designing a
mass-contact model now, and feel extremely cautious about how I intend
to contact my customers, how easily I can assure their ongoing
participation is voluntary, and other concerns. Does the author of
Twitter Butler have a clear understanding of how his product has been
used within Twitter.com? Or does he prefer to collect ten dollars and
forget it?


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Jeremy Darling
You completely missed the point of my post.  It is a simple call to ethical
analysis of the situation.  Deeming different situations with similar
outcomes (mass following or unwanted solicitation) I asked for simple
justification of the community at large.  In fact had I left out Deans name
it could have been any generic email to the group.

As for your TOS statement, I never said a company could not do so, in fact I
said they could.  But, the only legal recourse to a violation of this type
is suspension of accounts at this level.  If after account suspension Dean
(or anyone else) created new accounts and utilized those to perform the same
action then Twitter (or any entity) could then prove malice.

For naming, go back to your law books (I know I did), his name implies the
service that his product provides (IE: it answers the door when an
interesting party comes by).  In fact, twitter is doing further damage to
this argument by not going after those good guys on their list (a
trademark must be enforced in ALL cases or it shall be revoked).  Twitter
did not pursue revocation of the name in proper fashion with accordance to
the law (they told him to hand it over and didn't offer compensation).  They
also did not provide the proper statue of 30 days prior written notice (note
that in the US email communication is not considered valid notice and thus
is why if you win a contest they have to send you a written notice you have
to send back as well).

Now, can we get back to my 4 points/questions with your answers?  What of
the 4 do you feel would be ethical and why, I'm simply curious as to the
community reaction?

 - Jeremy

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:30 PM, David Fisher tib...@gmail.com wrote:


 Jeremy,

 The problem with your logic is that you don't feel that a company can
 set a ToS for how they want users to use their service. They can.

 There are legitimate and non-legitimate uses of Twitter. This guy
 screwed up, and overreacted. Case closed. Twitter's got him on the
 naming issue and the ToS issue (which they can change any time they
 like).


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Robert Fishel

Just because in all cases you can't define premeditated murder doesn't
mean that premeditated murder isn't universally wrong.

One person considers being followed by someone they don't want to be
followed by to be spam.  Others don't.

Very true, however when you ask that same person if being followed by
100 or 1000 people that they don't want to be followed by as spam I
would be surprised if anyone said no and that is the behavior this app
encourages.

To blame a tool that enables people to follow someone is like blaming
the gun for killing.  That's just downright stupid, or in this case,
universally wrong.

Again very true, however one needs to use some common sense. It's ok
for people to own guns. It's not ok for people to own nuclear missiles
or anthrax. Why is that? We don't blame those tools for killing... We
ban there ownership because they have no legitimate use for every day
normal people.

My Twitter Butler falls into the nuclear missile category. I can think
of no legitimate uses for wanting to follow 400 people who input any
keyword.

You could make the case of a niche market, I mean if you wanted to
connect with people who liked to fly fish in dubai then you could look
for #flyfishingindubai but with the smallness of that group the
twitter web interface and manually following works just fine. At any
scale where you need an app to follow people based on keywords the
uses are only malicious.

The only scenario I can think of that is legitimate is to compare
other tweets of those who are interested in one topic. Ie if people
mention #Dell what other habits do they have? However this behavior
can be achieved by running searches for #Dell, culling the user names
and accessing their streams directly alleviating the need for mass
following.

If there is a use case I haven't thought of please feel free to enlighten me.

Also as a final note, I've never heard of your application nor do I
have any knowledge of what it does (and I'm intentionally not going to
look until this thread is done) so I don't want you to think this is a
personal attack. I'm just trying to observe the reason for the TOS
violation and make a case for why it is a reasonable part of the TOS.

-Bob

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Dossy Shiobarado...@panoptic.com wrote:

 On 8/12/09 3:44 PM, Robert Fishel wrote:

 There are universal wrongs. Guns aren't on of them. Premeditated murder
 is.
 So is spam.

 Suppose you're right.  Is it so very clear what premeditated murder is in
 all cases?  How about spam?

 One person considers being followed by someone they don't want to be
 followed by to be spam.  Others don't.

 To blame a tool that enables people to follow someone is like blaming the
 gun for killing.  That's just downright stupid, or in this case, universally
 wrong.

 Users abusing tools can be destructive and we should define ways of handling
 those abuses - trying to ban or eliminate those tools is pointless.

 In developing and maintaining Twitter Karma, I have been very careful in
 selecting what features to implement.  I recognize that it can still be used
 by people to abuse Twitter and that makes me very, very sad. However, those
 features are also very useful for legitimate users, so I have implemented
 them.  I will, however, refuse to implement any feature that only benefits
 users who intend to abuse Twitter.

 In the end, I would hope that Twitter would create ways of punishing the
 abusive users and not Twitter Karma.

 --
 Dossy Shiobara              | do...@panoptic.com | http://dossy.org/
 Panoptic Computer Network   | http://panoptic.com/
  He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own
    folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)



[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Vincent Wright

David,
It's called HUMOR.

If your head hurts don't blame us - reduce the self-induced strain
from trying to live a humorless life and you'll be ok.

Untwist your bonnet a bit and relax - - -

As a reminder: Labeling an indiscriminate group of people stupid is a
stupid way to try to establish your own intelligence.

Thanks, and Keep STRONG!!
Vincent Wright
Director Of Community



On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:47 PM, David Fishertib...@gmail.com wrote:

 @Vincent

 No. Do you not understand that Trademark infringements occur between
 things that could be mistaken for each other or in the same industry,
 diluting a brand?

 A Disney film from the 1940's has what to do with a 3rd part
 application for a 2006-present social network?
 There is a CLEAR connection between MyTwitterButler and Twitter.
 MyTwitterButler is using Twitter as the basis for their business and
 clearly in the same brand space.

 This isn't uncomfortable for Twitter or MyTwitterButler.

 Were you asleep for the whole Apple Computers v Apple Music thing? As
 long as they weren't in similar spaces (computers weren't supposed to
 make sounds/music initially) everything was ok, but then once Apple
 got into music, the stuff got nuts and went to court. No Apple (fruit)
 companies were sued however or sent notices.

 You guys are so stupid this makes my head hurt.

 david

 On Aug 12, 3:18 pm, Vincent Wright mylinkedinpowerfo...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 None of us actually know how this might turn out but, even recognizing
 that this could become an uncomfortable matter for MyTwitterButler
 and/or Twitter, I nonetheless, decided to ask the question regarding
 the 1942 movie Bambi:
 Would Twitter Sue Bambi For Being Twitterpated? :-) 
 :http://mylinkingpowerforum.ning.com/group/twitterpated/forum/topics/w...

 Thanks, and Keep STRONG!!
 Vincent Wright
 Director Of Community
 MyLinkingPowerForum.ning.com |


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Gonzalo Larralde

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:48 PM, Dean Collinsd...@cognation.net wrote:
 Any other developer being sued by Twitter today?

Basically it's a WINDOWS XP .net application, if you have a mac and
you stupidly purchase this and it doesn't workgo bitch to Steve
Jobs. [0]

If you buy this and it doesn't do what you thought it was supposed
togo bitch to your mother. [0]

I hope they win. ¬¬


[0] http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/ @ About Me


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Neil Ellis


Someone remind me again who was it that saw this record breaking  
thread coming . :-)


I think the only thing that hasn't been discussed is the very nature  
of life itself :-)


peace
Neil

On 12 Aug 2009, at 23:04, Gonzalo Larralde wrote:



On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:48 PM, Dean Collinsd...@cognation.net  
wrote:

Any other developer being sued by Twitter today?


Basically it's a WINDOWS XP .net application, if you have a mac and
you stupidly purchase this and it doesn't workgo bitch to Steve
Jobs. [0]

If you buy this and it doesn't do what you thought it was supposed
togo bitch to your mother. [0]

I hope they win. ¬¬


[0] http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/ @ About Me




[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Robert Fishel

Obligatory Wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology


On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Neil Ellisneilellis1...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Someone remind me again who was it that saw this record breaking thread
 coming . :-)

 I think the only thing that hasn't been discussed is the very nature of life
 itself :-)

 peace
 Neil

 On 12 Aug 2009, at 23:04, Gonzalo Larralde wrote:


 On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:48 PM, Dean Collinsd...@cognation.net wrote:

 Any other developer being sued by Twitter today?

 Basically it's a WINDOWS XP .net application, if you have a mac and
 you stupidly purchase this and it doesn't workgo bitch to Steve
 Jobs. [0]

 If you buy this and it doesn't do what you thought it was supposed
 togo bitch to your mother. [0]

 I hope they win. ¬¬


 [0] http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/ @ About Me




[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread Dossy Shiobara


On 8/12/09 6:14 PM, Robert Fishel wrote:

My Twitter Butler falls into the nuclear missile category. I can think
of no legitimate uses for wanting to follow 400 people who input any
keyword.


Then, you're not very creative or inspired.  Read on ...


You could make the case of a niche market, I mean if you wanted to
connect with people who liked to fly fish in dubai then you could look
for #flyfishingindubai but with the smallness of that group the
twitter web interface and manually following works just fine. At any
scale where you need an app to follow people based on keywords the
uses are only malicious.

The only scenario I can think of that is legitimate is to compare
other tweets of those who are interested in one topic. Ie if people
mention #Dell what other habits do they have? However this behavior
can be achieved by running searches for #Dell, culling the user names
and accessing their streams directly alleviating the need for mass
following.


First, the fact that you can think of even one legitimate scenario means 
that the tool in question has a legitimate use.  This takes it out of 
the nuclear or biological weapon category and puts it squarely in the 
guns category.  So, stop suggesting that it isn't, because you're wrong.


Second, anyone here who has polled 1,000+ users' timelines with any 
reasonable frequency knows that it's a poor solution.  Following 1,000 
users and polling your own friends timeline is far more efficient and 
scalable.  (Note: The streaming API's follow API limits you to 200, 
which is a non-starter for any non-trivial project.  The next level up, 
shadow requires approval and a signed agreement, which may or may not 
be desirable.)



If there is a use case I haven't thought of please feel free to
enlighten me.


Suppose you're doing competitive analysis and you want to follow anyone 
who mentions your client or your client's competitors, in order to 
perform some analysis and produce some reports.


The one thing that computers do well is repetitive tasks.  Sure, you can 
do everything manually using Twitter Search and the web UI, but if 
you're doing the same repetitive thing over and over, you've failed to 
fully utilize your computer.  Automation of repetitive tasks is 
inevitable and desirable: let people focus on more value-add activities 
that cannot be simply automated by a machine.


...

Many third-party Twitter applications *can* be used to abuse Twitter, 
not only the one we're actively discussing.


Has Kevin Mesiab received a similar CD and take-down threat for 
Hummingbird, which has similar bulk-following capability?  If there's 
ever a tool that's so very well-known for being abused by Twitter 
spammers, it's Hummingbird.


My guess?  Probably not.  Why not?  I suspect the bulk of the issue here 
is the fact that My Twitter Butler has the name Twitter embedded in 
it.  Hummingbird has no such issue.


As Twitter continues to mature, I'm sure we'll see a lot more of these 
kind of things happen.  Once the lawyers get their hands on Twitter's 
money, it'll only get worse, and they'll be grasping harder and harder 
at whatever reasons they can find to send a letter.


There's that old joke ... There was a lawyer who moved to a new town. 
He was the only lawyer in town.  For months, he was starving, trying to 
find work.  Then, another lawyer moved into town.  Since then, business 
has never been better.



--
Dossy Shiobara  | do...@panoptic.com | http://dossy.org/
Panoptic Computer Network   | http://panoptic.com/
  He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own
folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-12 Thread citricsquid

I would give my legs to stop all those Social media expert types
following me because I said something, it's god awful constantly
having Bob I make $100,000 a day and you can too just sign up for
this $500 product through my referral link is now following you!
emails.

uh, off topic.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-11 Thread Cameron Kaiser

Could we please not quote the *entire* *original* *message* with every reply?

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- They told me I was gullible ... and I believed them. ---


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-11 Thread Neil Ellis


Sorry Cameron :-) it's just so easy to hit that button :-)

peace
Neil
On 12 Aug 2009, at 04:02, Cameron Kaiser wrote:



Could we please not quote the *entire* *original* *message* with  
every reply?


--
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ 
 --

 Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- They told me I was gullible ... and I believed them.  
---




[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-11 Thread Kevin Mesiab
The same TOS that applies to users applies to developers, along with this
one: http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Terms-of-Service
http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Terms-of-ServiceIf you haven't already, I
encourage all developers to familiarize themselves with both.  You may also,
now, find more value in joining the Twitter Developers Alliance, which is
presently working on the first draft of the Twitter Developers Bill of
Rights, which Twitter has agreed to coordinate with.




 I'm very interested to learn more about the specifics, if there is some
 developer TOS I'm unaware of.


-- 
Kevin Mesiab
CEO, Mesiab Labs L.L.C.
http://twitter.com/kmesiab
http://mesiablabs.com
http://retweet.com


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-11 Thread JDG
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 20:48, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote:

  Any other developer being sued by Twitter today?


I might be. Oh wait, no, I'm not, because I know the difference between a
lawsuit and a cease and desist letter that enumerates all the things I'm
doing that violates Twitter's terms of service.

Glad I learned to read.

-- 
Internets. Serious business.


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-11 Thread Jeremy Darling
Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that trademark
against a URL, can't be done.  If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people
left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com) as
well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names
LOL.  Several other companies have tried this as well and failed.

As for Twitter TOS and developer rights.  Nope, can't sue for voilation of a
TOS on a public API either.  You can suspend suspect activities and revoke
developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS
violation of this type.  Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject.

On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in
valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point in
most cases.

Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be
Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the company that
was un-true.  In that case, they could get you for everything your worth
LOL.  Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the same laws
as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically have to suck
it up in the end.

 - Jeremy


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-11 Thread Larry Wright
As others have pointed out, this isn't a lawsuit. That aside, Twitter  
announced some time ago that they were not comfortable with people  
using their name as part of the name of their product ( http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html) 
, so it seems odd that you would be surprised by this.


Regardless, you'll get little sympathy from me. Your application  
encourages many of the behaviors most twitter users find annoying. The  
Twitter ecosystem is frankly better off without it.



Larry Wright
http://larrywright.me

On Aug 11, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Dean Collins wrote:


Any other developer being sued by Twitter today?

If so give me a call – feel free to tweet out www.MyTwitterButler.com/I 
’m_Being_Sued to anyone you want – looking forward to the press  
having a field day with this.



Regards,
Dean Collins
d...@mytwitterbutler.com
+1-212-203-4357   New York
+61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
+44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).









[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-11 Thread jim.renkel

An interesting implication is buried in all of this.

FACT: http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Terms-of-Service states: Please give
us a nod in your app, perhaps by including one of these stylish
Powered by Twitter badges, which I read as If ya use the API you
must acknowledge twitter.

FACT: The letter from twitter's lawyers states: stop all use of ...
the TWITTER mark, which I read as Ya can't use the word twitter in
your application or on your website.

IMPLICATION: No one can use the API !!!

I guess we should all pack up and move on.

Jim


On Aug 11, 10:13 pm, Larry Wright larrywri...@gmail.com wrote:
 As others have pointed out, this isn't a lawsuit. That aside, Twitter  
 announced some time ago that they were not comfortable with people  
 using their name as part of the name of their product 
 (http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html)
 , so it seems odd that you would be surprised by this.

 Regardless, you'll get little sympathy from me. Your application  
 encourages many of the behaviors most twitter users find annoying. The  
 Twitter ecosystem is frankly better off without it.

 Larry Wrighthttp://larrywright.me

 On Aug 11, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Dean Collins wrote:

  Any other developer being sued by Twitter today?

  If so give me a call – feel free to tweet outwww.MyTwitterButler.com/I
  ’m_Being_Sued to anyone you want – looking forward to the press  
  having a field day with this.

  Regards,
  Dean Collins
  d...@mytwitterbutler.com
  +1-212-203-4357   New York
  +61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
  +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-11 Thread Dean Collins

I'm glad you feel you can move on.I'm the one facing legal action!!


(and yes I read the comment I'm not being suedI'm facing legal action)


Does Twitter inc know that their lawyers are shutting down the third party 
developer community?


(sorry I'm new to this and freaking out - never had a lawyer sue me like this)



Regards,
Dean Collins
d...@mytwitterbutler.com
+1-212-203-4357   New York
+61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
+44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).

-Original Message-
From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of jim.renkel
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:51 PM
To: Twitter Development Talk
Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!


An interesting implication is buried in all of this.

FACT: http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Terms-of-Service states: Please give
us a nod in your app, perhaps by including one of these stylish
Powered by Twitter badges, which I read as If ya use the API you
must acknowledge twitter.

FACT: The letter from twitter's lawyers states: stop all use of ...
the TWITTER mark, which I read as Ya can't use the word twitter in
your application or on your website.

IMPLICATION: No one can use the API !!!

I guess we should all pack up and move on.

Jim


On Aug 11, 10:13 pm, Larry Wright larrywri...@gmail.com wrote:
 As others have pointed out, this isn't a lawsuit. That aside, Twitter  
 announced some time ago that they were not comfortable with people  
 using their name as part of the name of their product 
 (http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html)
 , so it seems odd that you would be surprised by this.

 Regardless, you'll get little sympathy from me. Your application  
 encourages many of the behaviors most twitter users find annoying. The  
 Twitter ecosystem is frankly better off without it.

 Larry Wrighthttp://larrywright.me

 On Aug 11, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Dean Collins wrote:

  Any other developer being sued by Twitter today?

  If so give me a call - feel free to tweet outwww.MyTwitterButler.com/I
  'm_Being_Sued to anyone you want - looking forward to the press  
  having a field day with this.

  Regards,
  Dean Collins
  d...@mytwitterbutler.com
  +1-212-203-4357   New York
  +61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
  +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-11 Thread Michael Ivey

 (sorry I'm new to this and freaking out - never had a lawyer sue me like
 this)


And you still haven't.




[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-11 Thread Josh Roesslein
Twitter warned a while back that they where being granted the trademark for
Twitter and they would like developers to no longer use Twitter in their
product names. This does not mean you can't display a powered by twitter
logo. They just don't want you associating their brand name with your
product's name. Users might get confused what is and is not a twitter
product.

I'm sorry but Dean you are using their trademark in your product name which
violates the trademark.
You have been asked nicely to stop. They could easily take you to court and
probably sue every dime out of your company.
From the letter it seems its just a warning, not a law suite yet.

Best to comply with them and avoid a law suit.

**note I am not a lawyer and this is just my two cents. i'd recommend
talking with your own lawyer
on what rights you have in this case.**

Best of luck

Josh

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:56 PM, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote:


 I'm glad you feel you can move on.I'm the one facing legal action!!


 (and yes I read the comment I'm not being suedI'm facing legal action)


 Does Twitter inc know that their lawyers are shutting down the third party
 developer community?


 (sorry I'm new to this and freaking out - never had a lawyer sue me like
 this)



 Regards,
 Dean Collins
 d...@mytwitterbutler.com
 +1-212-203-4357   New York
 +61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
 +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).

 -Original Message-
 From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:
 twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of jim.renkel
 Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:51 PM
 To: Twitter Development Talk
 Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!


 An interesting implication is buried in all of this.

 FACT: http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Terms-of-Service states: Please give
 us a nod in your app, perhaps by including one of these stylish
 Powered by Twitter badges, which I read as If ya use the API you
 must acknowledge twitter.

 FACT: The letter from twitter's lawyers states: stop all use of ...
 the TWITTER mark, which I read as Ya can't use the word twitter in
 your application or on your website.

 IMPLICATION: No one can use the API !!!

 I guess we should all pack up and move on.

 Jim


 On Aug 11, 10:13 pm, Larry Wright larrywri...@gmail.com wrote:
  As others have pointed out, this isn't a lawsuit. That aside, Twitter
  announced some time ago that they were not comfortable with people
  using their name as part of the name of their product (
 http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html)
  , so it seems odd that you would be surprised by this.
 
  Regardless, you'll get little sympathy from me. Your application
  encourages many of the behaviors most twitter users find annoying. The
  Twitter ecosystem is frankly better off without it.
 
  Larry Wrighthttp://larrywright.me
 
  On Aug 11, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Dean Collins wrote:
 
   Any other developer being sued by Twitter today?
 
   If so give me a call - feel free to tweet outwww.MyTwitterButler.com/I
   'm_Being_Sued to anyone you want - looking forward to the press
   having a field day with this.
 
   Regards,
   Dean Collins
   d...@mytwitterbutler.com
   +1-212-203-4357   New York
   +61-2-9016-5642   (Sydney in-dial).
   +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).




-- 
Josh


[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

2009-08-11 Thread Howard Siegel
Not taking sides, here, but so far you are the only one that has reported
receiving the CD letter.
How do you get from 1 instance of legal action to Twitter's lawyers are
shutting down the third
party developer community?

- h

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 20:56, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote:


 Does Twitter inc know that their lawyers are shutting down the third party
 developer community?





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