[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread jmathai
I like Abraham's idea: Twitter could add: next_cursor_string:1314614526448841129 Or a general return_as_string parameter which would return all values as strings. This would solve the problem for future values that might exceed the max int. There are going to be a lot of devs using PHP that

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Scott Haneda
If you are on 32 bit, what php.ini changes are you referring to that would be beneficial? -- Scott Iphone says hello. On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:35 AM, jmathai jmat...@gmail.com wrote: I like Abraham's idea: Twitter could add: next_cursor_string:1314614526448841129 Or a general

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread David Fisher
I'm sorry, but the problem isn't Twitter- its your language and JSON parser. Outputting everything as a string, when it clearly should be a number, is inefficient and crazy. Saying that startups can't afford 64 bit processors in systems is crazy. Most startups I know are running on EC2 or have

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread jmathai
I don't think anyone's saying it's Twitter's problem (at least I hope not). It's the same issue as supporting Internet Explorer. You can bitch and complain all you want about IE not supporting standards but if it's the most popular (or one of the most popular) browsers that are in use --- then

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Scott Haneda
I tend to agree, a MacMini, around 600.00, would build php out as 64 bit no issue. If you are a baby startup, that should really cover you and be able to handle a lot more load than you would think. You may have to pop your database on something more robust, but it works quite well as

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread jmathai
It's ridiculous to suggest a change in hardware (64 bit) or software (switch from PHP) to use Twitter's API. It's not like either of these are archaic. It sucks, sure, but it's silly to suggest such a solution. BTW, I don't have this problem. I'm just trying to be the voice of reason. On Sep

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Cameron Kaiser
You either need to run on a newer system or use a language that can properly handle 64-bit numbers. C, Python, Ruby, Scala, Erlang, C#, etc none of them have problems with 64-bit ints. Heck, Perl does it fine. I run TTYtter on a 32-bit system that runs a Perl that's over 10 years old, and

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Scott Haneda
I would not change either. But there are those here that are stating they need new hardware to work around this issue, and that they can not afford that. I was trying to be that voice of reason if that is the road/excuse they are choosing to go. There seem to be acceptable workarounds,

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Chad Etzel
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote: I can not see it being that huge a performance hit to massage that string a bit once you get ahold of it. Precisely. If you really want to turn the numbers into strings in PHP, here are 2 workaround examples. Please

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Richard
Can this not be returned as hex or base64? It would save bandwidth for Twitter (and us) and make it a string people could convert it to 64bit int if they still want to. On Sep 25, 10:16 pm, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote: I would not change either.  But there are those here that are

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread JDG
and it would also break everyone who CAN handle 64 bit ints and expects results in decimal numeric format. On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 16:01, Richard ryt...@gmail.com wrote: Can this not be returned as hex or base64? It would save bandwidth for Twitter (and us) and make it a string people could

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Dewald Pretorius
I think the point that some folks are trying to make is that forcing consumers of the API to use 64-bit machines is stifling innovation. Many Twitter apps start as pet projects hosted on a shared HostGator or other provider's server for nine bucks a month. That's how mine started way back. You

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread jmathai
Dewald sums it up great. I'm not affected by this issue but keeping the barrier of entry low is of high value. It sucks that some PHP installations have this issue, but if there's a good way to accomodate such a popular language then what's the harm? This brings up an issue though. I'm not in

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Scott Haneda
Why is the API not versioned then? api.twitter.com/?v=1, api.twitter.com/?v=1.1, api.twitter.com/?v=1.2 etc Or, if that is too much maintenance, how about api.twitter.com/?bitfix=32 or whatever. -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ * On Sep 25, 2009, at 6:40

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Dewald Pretorius
I actually like the idea of versioning the API. Having an API version that returns all values as strings can be as simple on the Twitter side as an IF statement in the final stages of constructing the JSON output that just converts all numerical values to strings before the JSON encode. Dewald

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Jim Renkel
@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids Why is the API not versioned then? api.twitter.com/?v=1, api.twitter.com/?v=1.1, api.twitter.com/?v=1.2 etc Or, if that is too much maintenance, how about api.twitter.com/?bitfix=32 or whatever

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Michael Steuer
: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Haneda Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 21:28 To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids Why

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread Chad Etzel
: Friday, September 25, 2009 21:28 To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids Why is the API not versioned then? api.twitter.com/?v=1, api.twitter.com/?v=1.1, api.twitter.com/?v=1.2 etc Or, if that is too

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-25 Thread dennisu rozenbaum
To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids Why is the API not versioned then? api.twitter.com/?v=1, api.twitter.com/?v=1.1, api.twitter.com/?v=1.2 etc Or, if that is too much maintenance, how about

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread jmathai
Agreed that the problem isn't Twitter's fault. But a basic feature like cursor should work in a language as popular as PHP. Not so much in principle but in practice. Has anyone tried PEAR's Services_JSON? I haven't tried nor looked at the source. It's also slower than the native json_*

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Dewald Pretorius
Provided that it will not break the JSON for other language apps, the solution is extremely simple for Twitter to implement, and it will save a lot of us a lot of work and expense. Just create any large numeric values in the JSON output as strings, instead of numbers. This goes for any large

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Jeffrey Greenberg
My 2 cents are:1. we're using the xml form of the api on 32bit development machines and it works fine. 2. not supporting 32bit machines seems like a bad idea for twitter and developers, no matter who(twitter or php) you want to blame as the problem; a) PHP is perhaps the most popular web

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Dewald Pretorius
Jesse, It will add exactly two quote characters () per numeric field in the JSON payload. In any event, I am now hacking the raw JSON output to convert the ids and cursors to string. It's not an ideal solution but it works. Dewald On Sep 24, 12:34 pm, Jesse Stay jesses...@gmail.com wrote: On

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Abraham Williams
Twitter could add: next_cursor_string:1314614526448841129 Minimal cost and it would be backwards compatible. Abraham On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 12:06, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Jesse, It will add exactly two quote characters () per numeric field in the JSON payload. In any

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Jim Renkel
...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dewald Pretorius Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:26 To: Twitter Development Talk Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids Provided that it will not break the JSON for other language apps, the solution is extremely simple

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Dewald Pretorius
Abraham, That is true, but we are going to run into exactly the same problem with 64-bit status ids. And that is going to break a LOT of PHP applications in one fell swoop. Dewald On Sep 24, 2:27 pm, Abraham Williams 4bra...@gmail.com wrote: Twitter could add:

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Chad Etzel
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Abraham, That is true, but we are going to run into exactly the same problem with 64-bit status ids. This has already happened. Tweet ids are now bigger than a 32 bit int can store. That's what Twitpocalypse 2 was all

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Dewald Pretorius
Chad, Thanks for setting me straight on that one. My app is not reliant on Twitter tweet ids except for one specific informational use. Hence, I have not been paying much attention to the Twitpocalypse 2. Dewald On Sep 24, 3:14 pm, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Joseph Cheek
until 65+ bit computing becomes standard, a lot of things will break (twitter included) when id's go past 64 bits. i hate to be a naysayer though, but the difference between 2^32 and 2^64 is, well, huge. i don't expect twitter id's to break 64 bits anytime soon, until at least far past

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Joseph Cheek
already past 32-bit signed but not 32-bit unsigned, right? twitpocalypse moves the max to 2^32-1, right? or did i misread it? Chad Etzel wrote: This has already happened. Tweet ids are now bigger than a 32 bit int can store. That's what Twitpocalypse 2 was all about. -Chad -- Joseph

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Dewald Pretorius
Although, looking at a few tweets in the public timeline, I'm seeing tweet ids of 4348298962, 4348298957, etc. At least on my server, json_decode is still correctly decoding those numbers. So, it's probably safe to say that Twitpocalypse 2 has not arrived yet for many PHP apps in terms of JSON

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Chad Etzel
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Joseph Cheek jos...@cheek.com wrote: already past 32-bit signed  but not 32-bit unsigned, right? twitpocalypse moves the max to 2^32-1, right?  or did i misread it? They have passed 32-bit *un*signed. My latest tweet id is 4345383616 (which is 2^32 - 1)

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Chad Etzel
Dewald, What do you get on your server if you do: echo PHP_INT_MAX; also, what version of PHP are you using? -Chad On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Although, looking at a few tweets in the public timeline, I'm seeing tweet ids of 4348298962,

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Dewald Pretorius
Chad, PHP_INT_MAX is 2147483647. And yet, json_decode is still correctly decoding id:4348298957. O-o Dewald On Sep 24, 3:58 pm, Chad Etzel c...@twitter.com wrote: Dewald, What do you get on your server if you do: echo PHP_INT_MAX; also, what version of PHP are you using? -Chad

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Joseph Cheek
um... As mentioned previously, the Twitter operations team will artificially increase the maximum status ID to 4294967296 this coming Friday, September 11th. This action is part of routine database upgrades and maintenance.

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Dewald Pretorius
Clearly PHP_INT_MAX plays no role in json_decode. There must be some other mystical maximum number above which it represents the number as float in the decoded data. Dewald On Sep 24, 4:05 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Chad, PHP_INT_MAX is 2147483647. And yet, json_decode

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Dewald Pretorius
That magical maximum number appears to be 1 (1.0E+12). So, for tweet ids we still have a bit of breathing space. Dewald On Sep 24, 4:18 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Clearly PHP_INT_MAX plays no role in json_decode. There must be some other mystical maximum number

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Chad Etzel
For reference, the PHP_INT_MAX on my 64-bit linux VM is: 9223372036854775807 and using json_decode on the next_cursor field of an ids list works just fine. I'm using PHP 5.2.10-0.dotdeb.1 (though PHP 5.2.11-0.dotdeb.1 is available) fwiw, -Chad On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Dewald Pretorius

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-24 Thread Scott Haneda
Can someone explain this issue to me in more detail? How do I know my php can handle it? I'm running on an older PPC machine, which is 64 bit, but I have no idea if I built it as 64, I just supplied standard configure arguments. If php sees a 64 bit integer come in as JSON what happens on

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-23 Thread Joseph Cheek
from http://us2.php.net/json_decode: |In PHP = 5.1.6 trying to decode an integer value that's PHP_INT_MAX will result in an intger of PHP_INT_MAX. In PHP 5.2+ decoding an integer PHP_INT_MAX will cause a conversion to a float. Neither behaviour is perfect, capping at PHP_INT_MAX is

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-23 Thread Dewald Pretorius
All that Twitter needs to do to solve this problem is to build the JSON out with next_cursor and previous_cursor as string values. I.e., the JSON data should contain: next_cursor:12398712981212987,previous_cursor:-12398712981212987 I don't know what it will do to Java apps, but for PHP apps it

[twitter-dev] Re: SERIOUS Problem With Cursors In JSON Followers/Friends Ids

2009-09-23 Thread Chad Etzel
Hello, As Joseph points out, PHP on a 64-bit system can handle these numbers. If you really want this data as a string, you could write a regex in PHP to alter the json string to wrap the digits in quotes before sending it through json_decode(), but that would be a pretty gnarly kludge. -Chad