Re: [U-Boot] Need assistance with increasing command line size on Cavium
Dear Garrett, In message <364299f40907061303q5d253301u7f7fbc6be09e8...@mail.gmail.com> you wrote: > > > But any of these Cavium users has the full rights granted by the GPL, > > whih includes for example to put the code or patches on a FTP server > > or to post them here on the mailing list. > > Yes, but the license used in the kernel and glibc (the last time I > checked, and I'm not a lawyer), have differences from the vanilla > ?L?GPL licenses because of the way the pieces of software are defined > and things interlink with one another -- otherwise you'd have to > expose a lot of sources to the general community that are proprietary. > Yet, it all depends on how things interlock too and where the > modifications are made :). No sources that are linked with the Linux kernel can be "proprietary" in any way - at least not legally. They are covered by GPLv2, and restrictions of the rights granted by the GPL are not possible. > Np. I know this junk sucks because of the way that things are written > and designed, but I can also see how keeping things proprietary to > keep market share and innovations is important. Actually this is a serious misconception. In all my experience pushing stuff into mainline as soon as possible is a much stronger push for market share and innovations. > I just think that some businesses fail to compromise at some decent > middle ground that benefits both the community and the corporation -- > that's what both group should seek for the betterment of both groups, > because absolute proprietary secrets just leads to bitrot and security > flaws, whereas total exposure leads to potential loss in market share > and failure to succeed (take OSS for instance), unless one has a good Sorry, I don't understand what you mean here. Why would using Free Software (which is a pretty much different thing compared to Open Source Software) lead to loss in market share and failure to succeed? do you have any specific examples for this? On contrary, there are tons of examples that prove quite the opposite. Best regards, Wolfgang Denk -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: w...@denx.de Documentation is the castor oil of programming. Managers know it must be good because the programmers hate it so much. ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] Need assistance with increasing command line size on Cavium
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 12:30 PM, Wolfgang Denk wrote: > Dear Garrett Cooper, > > In message <364299f40907061215m2f239b33tbf0914e066a9f...@mail.gmail.com> you > wrote: >> >> > Yes, he should. This should be covered by GPLv2. >> >> Yeah, Cavium did some potentially interesting things by tokenizing the >> arguments and passing it to the kernel arguments parser in their >> platform dependent routines. Unfortunately this isn't opensource >> because even though it's GPLv2, as they only provide their kernel >> sources and SDK to customers with Cavium accounts (which require >> purchasing the hardware). > > But any of these Cavium users has the full rights granted by the GPL, > whih includes for example to put the code or patches on a FTP server > or to post them here on the mailing list. Yes, but the license used in the kernel and glibc (the last time I checked, and I'm not a lawyer), have differences from the vanilla ?L?GPL licenses because of the way the pieces of software are defined and things interlink with one another -- otherwise you'd have to expose a lot of sources to the general community that are proprietary. Yet, it all depends on how things interlock too and where the modifications are made :). > Maybe anybody is listening and willing to invest this little effort > for the benefit of all? > >> I'm going to pursue obtaining the patch via our Cavium PoC and see if >> I can get it put into the U-boot source tree. > > Thanks in advance. Np. I know this junk sucks because of the way that things are written and designed, but I can also see how keeping things proprietary to keep market share and innovations is important. Since we're already straying a bit OT... I just think that some businesses fail to compromise at some decent middle ground that benefits both the community and the corporation -- that's what both group should seek for the betterment of both groups, because absolute proprietary secrets just leads to bitrot and security flaws, whereas total exposure leads to potential loss in market share and failure to succeed (take OSS for instance), unless one has a good product and marketing strategy that isn't based purely in software, but a combination of proprietary ASICs and software (take Apple for example and how they've opensourced Darwin). Cheers, -Garrett ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] Need assistance with increasing command line size on Cavium
Dear Garrett Cooper, In message <364299f40907061215m2f239b33tbf0914e066a9f...@mail.gmail.com> you wrote: > > > Yes, he should. This should be covered by GPLv2. > > Yeah, Cavium did some potentially interesting things by tokenizing the > arguments and passing it to the kernel arguments parser in their > platform dependent routines. Unfortunately this isn't opensource > because even though it's GPLv2, as they only provide their kernel > sources and SDK to customers with Cavium accounts (which require > purchasing the hardware). But any of these Cavium users has the full rights granted by the GPL, whih includes for example to put the code or patches on a FTP server or to post them here on the mailing list. Maybe anybody is listening and willing to invest this little effort for the benefit of all? > I'm going to pursue obtaining the patch via our Cavium PoC and see if > I can get it put into the U-boot source tree. Thanks in advance. Best regards, Wolfgang Denk -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: w...@denx.de Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no substitute for a good blaster at your side. - Han Solo ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] Need assistance with increasing command line size on Cavium
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:55 AM, Frank Svendsbøe wrote: > On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Detlev Zundel wrote: >> Hi Frank, >> > As I cannot see any Cavium support in mainline U-Boot, when can we > expect the patches adding support to be posted? :) Crud. If they've been hacking U-boot, then I can't say when it can be released as I don't own the code :(... -Garrett >>> >>> If they've use U-boot and did modification to the source code, the GPL state >>> that they must make their modification available for the public (under the >>> same license). >> >> Actually the GPL states that if you receive a copy of the program, then >> you have those rights. As long as you do not distribute a changed GPLv2 >> program, nobody has any right on your changes. As it turned out, this > > Hi Detlev, > Does "not distribute" here mean "for internal usage"? I believe this product > is not in that category. > >> also is the case if you use GPLed software to offer e.g. webservices - >> i.e. as the program is not distributed, not even as a user of these >> services you have a right to see the modifications. The latter fact is >> addressed by the Affero GPL. >> > > I'm not familiar with the Affero GPL (but I saw it mentioned on the > "U-Boot and GPLv3"-thread the other day). > > Btw, I've read some (good/bad) arguments in favor of keeping U-Boot GPLv2 > licensed, but I'm still "voting" for GPLv3. Most of the v3 counterarguments > we've seen so far use non-consumer products as examples, which the license > is not applicable to (as stated many times by Richard Stallman). > > How will the GPLv3 affect a device running a GPLv3 U-Boot, but containing > proprietary code in, say user-mode, and/or other chip devices (eg. the device > is > "useless" without the proprietary code, but can boot and the source is > available > as v3)? .. oops, this is not very relevant to the e-mail subject. > >>> Since it's already available for consumers, I guess that the port >>> development >>> is finished? Just send them an e-mail and ask for the U-Boot support patch >>> for >>> their product. >> >> Garret obviously received a copy of the program, so he has the right to >> get the sources. He should exercise that right. >> > > Yes, he should. This should be covered by GPLv2. Yeah, Cavium did some potentially interesting things by tokenizing the arguments and passing it to the kernel arguments parser in their platform dependent routines. Unfortunately this isn't opensource because even though it's GPLv2, as they only provide their kernel sources and SDK to customers with Cavium accounts (which require purchasing the hardware). I'm going to pursue obtaining the patch via our Cavium PoC and see if I can get it put into the U-boot source tree. Thanks for the recommendations, -Garrett ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] Need assistance with increasing command line size on Cavium
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Detlev Zundel wrote: > Hi Frank, > As I cannot see any Cavium support in mainline U-Boot, when can we expect the patches adding support to be posted? :) >>> >>> Crud. If they've been hacking U-boot, then I can't say when it can be >>> released as I don't own the code :(... >>> -Garrett >> >> If they've use U-boot and did modification to the source code, the GPL state >> that they must make their modification available for the public (under the >> same license). > > Actually the GPL states that if you receive a copy of the program, then > you have those rights. As long as you do not distribute a changed GPLv2 > program, nobody has any right on your changes. As it turned out, this Hi Detlev, Does "not distribute" here mean "for internal usage"? I believe this product is not in that category. > also is the case if you use GPLed software to offer e.g. webservices - > i.e. as the program is not distributed, not even as a user of these > services you have a right to see the modifications. The latter fact is > addressed by the Affero GPL. > I'm not familiar with the Affero GPL (but I saw it mentioned on the "U-Boot and GPLv3"-thread the other day). Btw, I've read some (good/bad) arguments in favor of keeping U-Boot GPLv2 licensed, but I'm still "voting" for GPLv3. Most of the v3 counterarguments we've seen so far use non-consumer products as examples, which the license is not applicable to (as stated many times by Richard Stallman). How will the GPLv3 affect a device running a GPLv3 U-Boot, but containing proprietary code in, say user-mode, and/or other chip devices (eg. the device is "useless" without the proprietary code, but can boot and the source is available as v3)? .. oops, this is not very relevant to the e-mail subject. >> Since it's already available for consumers, I guess that the port development >> is finished? Just send them an e-mail and ask for the U-Boot support patch >> for >> their product. > > Garret obviously received a copy of the program, so he has the right to > get the sources. He should exercise that right. > Yes, he should. This should be covered by GPLv2. - Frank > Cheers > Detlev > > -- > To you I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition. > -- Woody Allen > -- > DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel > HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany > Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-40 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: d...@denx.de > ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] Need assistance with increasing command line size on Cavium
Hi Frank, >>> As I cannot see any Cavium support in mainline U-Boot, when can we >>> expect the patches adding support to be posted? :) >> >> Crud. If they've been hacking U-boot, then I can't say when it can be >> released as I don't own the code :(... >> -Garrett > > If they've use U-boot and did modification to the source code, the GPL state > that they must make their modification available for the public (under the > same license). Actually the GPL states that if you receive a copy of the program, then you have those rights. As long as you do not distribute a changed GPLv2 program, nobody has any right on your changes. As it turned out, this also is the case if you use GPLed software to offer e.g. webservices - i.e. as the program is not distributed, not even as a user of these services you have a right to see the modifications. The latter fact is addressed by the Affero GPL. > Since it's already available for consumers, I guess that the port development > is finished? Just send them an e-mail and ask for the U-Boot support patch for > their product. Garret obviously received a copy of the program, so he has the right to get the sources. He should exercise that right. Cheers Detlev -- To you I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition. -- Woody Allen -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-40 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: d...@denx.de ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] Need assistance with increasing command line size on Cavium
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 2:49 AM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Detlev Zundel wrote: >> Hi Garrett, >> >>> Our group is running into command line length issues with a number >>> of Cavium boards we have at our office (CN38xx, CN5xxx), and I was >>> wondering (apart from the Linux kernel command line length), where I >>> would look to increase the size for the command line that's passed >>> from U-boot to the Linux kernel, as well as maybe which config file I >>> should be modifying to enact these changes. >> >> First thing would be to ask whoever provided you with the code ;) >> >> If this doesn't help, check the code in lib_mips/bootm.c. Especially >> linux_params_init. Also be sure to check what gd->bd->bi_boot_params is >> on your boards. >> >> As I cannot see any Cavium support in mainline U-Boot, when can we >> expect the patches adding support to be posted? :) > > Crud. If they've been hacking U-boot, then I can't say when it can be > released as I don't own the code :(... > -Garrett If they've use U-boot and did modification to the source code, the GPL state that they must make their modification available for the public (under the same license). Since it's already available for consumers, I guess that the port development is finished? Just send them an e-mail and ask for the U-Boot support patch for their product. - Frank ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] Need assistance with increasing command line size on Cavium
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Detlev Zundel wrote: > Hi Garrett, > >> Our group is running into command line length issues with a number >> of Cavium boards we have at our office (CN38xx, CN5xxx), and I was >> wondering (apart from the Linux kernel command line length), where I >> would look to increase the size for the command line that's passed >> from U-boot to the Linux kernel, as well as maybe which config file I >> should be modifying to enact these changes. > > First thing would be to ask whoever provided you with the code ;) > > If this doesn't help, check the code in lib_mips/bootm.c. Especially > linux_params_init. Also be sure to check what gd->bd->bi_boot_params is > on your boards. > > As I cannot see any Cavium support in mainline U-Boot, when can we > expect the patches adding support to be posted? :) Crud. If they've been hacking U-boot, then I can't say when it can be released as I don't own the code :(... -Garrett ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] Need assistance with increasing command line size on Cavium
Hi Garrett, > Our group is running into command line length issues with a number > of Cavium boards we have at our office (CN38xx, CN5xxx), and I was > wondering (apart from the Linux kernel command line length), where I > would look to increase the size for the command line that's passed > from U-boot to the Linux kernel, as well as maybe which config file I > should be modifying to enact these changes. First thing would be to ask whoever provided you with the code ;) If this doesn't help, check the code in lib_mips/bootm.c. Especially linux_params_init. Also be sure to check what gd->bd->bi_boot_params is on your boards. As I cannot see any Cavium support in mainline U-Boot, when can we expect the patches adding support to be posted? :) Cheers Detlev -- The fact is, volatile on data structures is a bug. It's a wart in the C language. It shouldn't be used. -- Linus Torvalds -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-40 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: d...@denx.de ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
[U-Boot] Need assistance with increasing command line size on Cavium
Hello, Our group is running into command line length issues with a number of Cavium boards we have at our office (CN38xx, CN5xxx), and I was wondering (apart from the Linux kernel command line length), where I would look to increase the size for the command line that's passed from U-boot to the Linux kernel, as well as maybe which config file I should be modifying to enact these changes. Thanks, -Garrett ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
