Re: [U-Boot] REJECT: Too many recipients to the message
On Monday 01 June 2009 22:00:12 Wolfgang Denk wrote: there is an increasing number of postings with loong lists of recipients (10 addresses and more); usually several of these are regular and active users of this mailing list so this is actually redundant; It is not redundant -- including a person in the CC list brings the mail to their attention faster (and with less chances of missing it) than if they have to pick it out of the list. An email message is a message is a message, isn't it? The message on the list and the Cc: are identical, aren't they? No, they not identical. For example my internal mail filtering will move all mails directed to the list to a special u-boot list folder and those mails addressed to me directly not. So I see all mails addressed to me in my inbox which helps me to not miss anything relevant for me (ppc4xx etc). Best regards, Stefan = DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: +49-8142-66989-0 Fax: +49-8142-66989-80 Email: off...@denx.de = ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] REJECT: Too many recipients to the message
Jerry Van Baren wrote: That is actually a MailMan feature. If you go to your personal configuration page, you will find the last option to be... Avoid duplicate copies of messages? When you are listed explicitly in the To: or Cc: headers of a list message, you can opt to not receive another copy from the mailing list. Select Yes to avoid receiving copies from the mailing list; select No to receive copies. I already have that set to no. It's not the list e-mail that isn't making it, but the direct CC e-mail. It only happens some of the time. -Scott ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] REJECT: Too many recipients to the message
Dear Scott Wood, In message 4a242071.1010...@freescale.com you wrote: there is an increasing number of postings with loong lists of recipients (10 addresses and more); usually several of these are regular and active users of this mailing list so this is actually redundant; It is not redundant -- including a person in the CC list brings the mail to their attention faster (and with less chances of missing it) than if they have to pick it out of the list. An email message is a message is a message, isn't it? The message on the list and the Cc: are identical, aren't they? What is the difference whether you receive one or two identical copies of a message? How about reconfiguring the list software instead? I see no reason for that yet. Best regards, Wolfgang Denk -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: w...@denx.de If a train station is a place where a train stops, then what's a workstation? ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] REJECT: Too many recipients to the message
Dear Scott Wood, In message 4a242313.3060...@freescale.com you wrote: I already have that set to no. It's not the list e-mail that isn't making it, but the direct CC e-mail. It only happens some of the time. To the best of my knowledge both messages get sent, but it seems some servers drop them on the receiving side, if the message ID is already known. Best regards, Wolfgang Denk -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: w...@denx.de A student of probability soon realizes that by its nature the billion-to-one chance crops up nine times out of ten, and that the greatest odds boil down to a double-sided statement: it will happen, or it will not. - Terry Pratchett, _The Dark Side of the Sun_ ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] REJECT: Too many recipients to the message
On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 10:00:12PM +0200, Wolfgang Denk wrote: Dear Scott Wood, In message 4a242071.1010...@freescale.com you wrote: there is an increasing number of postings with loong lists of recipients (10 addresses and more); usually several of these are regular and active users of this mailing list so this is actually redundant; It is not redundant -- including a person in the CC list brings the mail to their attention faster (and with less chances of missing it) than if they have to pick it out of the list. An email message is a message is a message, isn't it? The message on the list and the Cc: are identical, aren't they? Yes, but how one's MUA / mail client handles them may *not* be identi- cal. Quite a few people configure their MUA to prioritize messages based on whether they are on the To: list, CC:, BCC:, or none of the above (i.e. by list membership). What is the difference whether you receive one or two identical copies of a message? It's a hassle and distraction to deal with duplicates. How about reconfiguring the list software instead? I see no reason for that yet. +1 for not restricting the # of addressees absent a reason other than some of them are often redundant. Tom -- A: Because it breaks the logical| flow of the message.| Email to user 'CTZ001' | at 'email.mot.com' Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? | ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] REJECT: Too many recipients to the message
Dear T Ziomek, In message 20090601203258.gg8...@email.mot.com you wrote: Yes, but how one's MUA / mail client handles them may *not* be identi- cal. Quite a few people configure their MUA to prioritize messages based on whether they are on the To: list, CC:, BCC:, or none of the above (i.e. by list membership). I read this as a pro for long cc: lists. What is the difference whether you receive one or two identical copies of a message? It's a hassle and distraction to deal with duplicates. This however is a clear con, isn't it? How about reconfiguring the list software instead? I see no reason for that yet. +1 for not restricting the # of addressees absent a reason other than some of them are often redundant. We neever before had any such problems. Currently these are caused because some messages have 5 (or more) samsung.com addresses listed on Cc:; for example, [PATCH] The omap3 L2 cache enable/disable function to omap3 dependent code has 6 such addresses on Cc: I doubt that this is really necessary. In this specific case, a company-internal distribution list would probably be more appropriate. Best regards, Wolfgang Denk -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: w...@denx.de A Vulcan can no sooner be disloyal than he can exist without breathing. -- Kirk, The Menagerie, stardate 3012.4 ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] REJECT: Too many recipients to the message
Dear T Ziomek, In message 20090601210846.gj8...@email.mot.com you wrote: How about reconfiguring the list software instead? I see no reason for that yet. I see no reason, at least none articulated as of yet, for the current configuration. The current configurations is (1) the default one, and (2) pretty useful to detect list abuse that has not been cought yet by other means. We neever before had any such problems. Currently these are caused because some messages have 5 (or more) samsung.com addresses listed on Cc:; for example, [PATCH] The omap3 L2 cache enable/disable function to omap3 dependent code has 6 such addresses on Cc: And what problem does that cause? Such messages need manual moderation which (1) delays the messages and (2) causes additional work to the list moderator (me). I doubt that this is really necessary. Necessary is in the eye of the beholder here. And IMHO the presump- tion should be that the sender of an email is addressing it properly. Absent either (a) clear, significant abuse of emails' recipients or (b) a measurable and significant impact on the list provider [1], let people CC who they consider appropriate and let the list server send emails to whomever it is asked to send emails to. [1] E.g. exceeding bandwidth quotas, mail delivery being delayed for hours, etc. Messages get delayed, and they exceed my patience quota ;-) In this specific case, a company-internal distribution list would probably be more appropriate. I don't understand what you envision here, or what it would accomplish. They could Cc: u-boot-addi...@foo.com (i. e. just one address) and distribute this internally to anybody who might be interested. Best regards, Wolfgang Denk -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: w...@denx.de I used to be indecisive, now I'm not sure. ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] REJECT: Too many recipients to the message
Wolfgang Denk wrote: Dear T Ziomek, In message 20090601210846.gj8...@email.mot.com you wrote: How about reconfiguring the list software instead? I see no reason for that yet. I see no reason, at least none articulated as of yet, for the current configuration. The current configurations is (1) the default one, and (2) pretty useful to detect list abuse that has not been cought yet by other means. I don't understand what CC lists have to do with abuse of the mailing list -- any mail generated by a CC is done at the sender's mail server. CC lists do not cause additional mail to be sent by lists.denx.de. At worst, long-running threads can accumulate CCs that are no longer relevant to where the thread has gone (and I'm fine with encouraging those to be trimmed), but that's got nothing to do with the mailing list itself. The only thing that having the list reject such mails will accomplish is that people *not* on the CC list won't see the mail, which is sort of the opposite of the intended effect. We neever before had any such problems. Currently these are caused because some messages have 5 (or more) samsung.com addresses listed on Cc:; for example, [PATCH] The omap3 L2 cache enable/disable function to omap3 dependent code has 6 such addresses on Cc: And what problem does that cause? Such messages need manual moderation which (1) delays the messages and (2) causes additional work to the list moderator (me). That problem is not caused by the CC lists, but rather the configuration of the list server. What problem do the CC lists cause *by themselves*? In this specific case, a company-internal distribution list would probably be more appropriate. I don't understand what you envision here, or what it would accomplish. They could Cc: u-boot-addi...@foo.com (i. e. just one address) and distribute this internally to anybody who might be interested. What would that accomplish (keeping in mind that the CCs are often not for expanding the distribution list but calling specific people's attention to the mail)? If those addicts were uniformly interested in all u-boot mail, why wouldn't they just subscribe to the list? If they're only interested in some threads, what makes you think it will be the same set of 5 (or more) people each time? How should I know that someone wants to be CCed by some address other than what they post with? -Scott ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] REJECT: Too many recipients to the message
On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 12:00:21AM +0200, Wolfgang Denk wrote: Dear T Ziomek, In message 20090601210846.gj8...@email.mot.com you wrote: How about reconfiguring the list software instead? I see no reason for that yet. I see no reason, at least none articulated as of yet, for the current configuration. The current configurations is (1) the default one, Unless there's a good reason it's the default, I wouldn't defer to that in the presence of good arguments otherwise. and (2) pretty useful to detect list abuse that has not been cought yet by other means. What sort(s) of abuse has configuration this helped catch? We neever before had any such problems. Currently these are caused because some messages have 5 (or more) samsung.com addresses listed on Cc:; for example, [PATCH] The omap3 L2 cache enable/disable function to omap3 dependent code has 6 such addresses on Cc: And what problem does that cause? Such messages need manual moderation which (1) delays the messages and (2) causes additional work to the list moderator (me). But that's a problem caused by the list server's config, not inherently by the # of CCs. I doubt that this is really necessary. Necessary is in the eye of the beholder here. And IMHO the presump- tion should be that the sender of an email is addressing it properly. Absent either (a) clear, significant abuse of emails' recipients or (b) a measurable and significant impact on the list provider [1], let people CC who they consider appropriate and let the list server send emails to whomever it is asked to send emails to. [1] E.g. exceeding bandwidth quotas, mail delivery being delayed for hours, etc. I take this example back; as Scott reminds us the CCs don't affect the list server (except for a few more bytes in the headers of a message it relays). In which case I have even more trouble seeing the harm in re- moving the list server's [apparently arbitrary and unsubstantiated] CC limit. Or at least changing it to a much higher number. Messages get delayed, and they exceed my patience quota ;-) Again, not inherently because of having too many CCs. Raise/remove the limit, and your immediate issue is resolved. What's not to like? Tom -- A: Because it breaks the logical| flow of the message.| Email to user 'CTZ001' | at 'email.mot.com' Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? | ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] REJECT: Too many recipients to the message
Dear Wolfgang everyone, It happened ”Too many recipients to the message”, and I'm very sorry that my messages's many CC cause this event. Before that, I didn't find the recipients # limits on the u-boot mailinglist guidelines. So, I just send the messages like other my situation. If It's hard to configure mailing list server, I think the warnning about“The limit of CC” is showed on the u-boot mailinglist guidlines or anywhere. Thanks Sorry. Best Regards, Riverful - 원본 메시지 - 보낸 사람: T Ziomek ctz...@email.mot.com 보낸 날짜: 2009년 6월 2일 화요일 오전 9:09 받는 사람: Wolfgang Denk w...@denx.de 참조: Scott Wood scottw...@freescale.com; u-boot@lists.denx.de 제목: Re: [U-Boot] REJECT: Too many recipients to the message On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 12:00:21AM +0200, Wolfgang Denk wrote: Dear T Ziomek, In message 20090601210846.gj8...@email.mot.com you wrote: How about reconfiguring the list software instead? I see no reason for that yet. I see no reason, at least none articulated as of yet, for the current configuration. The current configurations is (1) the default one, Unless there's a good reason it's the default, I wouldn't defer to that in the presence of good arguments otherwise. and (2) pretty useful to detect list abuse that has not been cought yet by other means. What sort(s) of abuse has configuration this helped catch? We neever before had any such problems. Currently these are caused because some messages have 5 (or more) samsung.com addresses listed on Cc:; for example, [PATCH] The omap3 L2 cache enable/disable function to omap3 dependent code has 6 such addresses on Cc: And what problem does that cause? Such messages need manual moderation which (1) delays the messages and (2) causes additional work to the list moderator (me). But that's a problem caused by the list server's config, not inherently by the # of CCs. I doubt that this is really necessary. Necessary is in the eye of the beholder here. And IMHO the presump- tion should be that the sender of an email is addressing it properly. Absent either (a) clear, significant abuse of emails' recipients or (b) a measurable and significant impact on the list provider [1], let people CC who they consider appropriate and let the list server send emails to whomever it is asked to send emails to. [1] E.g. exceeding bandwidth quotas, mail delivery being delayed for hours, etc. I take this example back; as Scott reminds us the CCs don't affect the list server (except for a few more bytes in the headers of a message it relays). In which case I have even more trouble seeing the harm in re- moving the list server's [apparently arbitrary and unsubstantiated] CC limit. Or at least changing it to a much higher number. Messages get delayed, and they exceed my patience quota ;-) Again, not inherently because of having too many CCs. Raise/remove the limit, and your immediate issue is resolved. What's not to like? Tom -- A: Because it breaks the logical| flow of the message.| Email to user 'CTZ001' | at 'email.mot.com' Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? | ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
