Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table
Excellent points. In my personal experience, I've had terrible dealings with overseas firms. On the flip side, the sharpest person I've ever worked with was from New Delhi. Getting back to the point at hand, I believe that Pick Systems had some development work done in Russia, during the early 90's. I remember their work as being very good and remarkably bug-free. (Of course, I also drank a lot during those days, so my memory may not be that good.) Now,all of a sudden, at the same time that Rocket Software picks up U2, we start getting questions from rsystems in India. Naturally, I wondered if Rocket Software was the company that hired them. Probably not, but I'm still curious. Larry Hiscock lar...@wcs-corp.com 10/12/2009 5:09 PM Indian development firms aren't all they're cracked up to be, especially in anything other than Microsoft technologies. I've seen exactly this progression in other language lists to which I belong. Indian firm gets contract based on price and claim to know the language. Indian firm tries to get free help from mailing lists, newsgroups, etc, because they don't understand the technology. Indian firm loses contract or is not renewed. We've got personal experience in taking development contracts away from this type of firm. Larry Hiscock Western Computer Services -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of bney...@hcmg.net Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 1:47 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Doesn't matter which. We are the next group that will be asked to work for reduced pay or our work will go to India. Bruce M Neylon Health Care Management Group Phone: (301) 608-8633 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table
Indian development firms are pretty much the same as any other - if you get a small highly focused team of experts they will achieve a lot. The problem is when you get large pools of programmers of various skill levels, and so need more management time than it would take to program it in the first place. But then this is in theory more scalable. I live in the north west of England, just outside Manchester, the Industrial revolution started here, It was once very big in the textile industry- However no textiles are made here anymore, the old Victorian buildings that used to produce these are now trendy apartments, or business parks. There are a few specialist providers, I can kind of see software going the same way. Much of software is grinding out work, that can be done very cheaply in India/China/and Africa soon. All we in the western world will be doing is niche specialist development. Perhaps -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Larry Hiscock Sent: 12 October 2009 22:09 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Indian development firms aren't all they're cracked up to be, especially in anything other than Microsoft technologies. I've seen exactly this progression in other language lists to which I belong. Indian firm gets contract based on price and claim to know the language. Indian firm tries to get free help from mailing lists, newsgroups, etc, because they don't understand the technology. Indian firm loses contract or is not renewed. We've got personal experience in taking development contracts away from this type of firm. Larry Hiscock Western Computer Services -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of bney...@hcmg.net Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 1:47 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Doesn't matter which. We are the next group that will be asked to work for reduced pay or our work will go to India. Bruce M Neylon Health Care Management Group Phone: (301) 608-8633 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table
I don't think anyone was questioning Jay's intelligence. He is probably a very intelligent person or he would not have been hired. What is in question is the intelligence of the individuals that hired the firm he works for and the intelligence of the people that gave him the work to do without first of having him trained on it. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Charlie Rubeor Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:26 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Excellent points. In my personal experience, I've had terrible dealings with overseas firms. On the flip side, the sharpest person I've ever worked with was from New Delhi. Getting back to the point at hand, I believe that Pick Systems had some development work done in Russia, during the early 90's. I remember their work as being very good and remarkably bug-free. (Of course, I also drank a lot during those days, so my memory may not be that good.) Now,all of a sudden, at the same time that Rocket Software picks up U2, we start getting questions from rsystems in India. Naturally, I wondered if Rocket Software was the company that hired them. Probably not, but I'm still curious. Larry Hiscock lar...@wcs-corp.com 10/12/2009 5:09 PM Indian development firms aren't all they're cracked up to be, especially in anything other than Microsoft technologies. I've seen exactly this progression in other language lists to which I belong. Indian firm gets contract based on price and claim to know the language. Indian firm tries to get free help from mailing lists, newsgroups, etc, because they don't understand the technology. Indian firm loses contract or is not renewed. We've got personal experience in taking development contracts away from this type of firm. Larry Hiscock Western Computer Services -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of bney...@hcmg.net Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 1:47 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Doesn't matter which. We are the next group that will be asked to work for reduced pay or our work will go to India. Bruce M Neylon Health Care Management Group Phone: (301) 608-8633 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table
I don't see where you are coming from here. Every program I ever produce is for a specific purpose. We don't create one program and then have an assembly line that types it in several times over and over again. We just make copies of it. Programming takes skill, intelligence, and imagination. It is not a massed produced product like linen or towels where they have to have a body to recreate the product over and over. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:43 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Indian development firms are pretty much the same as any other - if you get a small highly focused team of experts they will achieve a lot. The problem is when you get large pools of programmers of various skill levels, and so need more management time than it would take to program it in the first place. But then this is in theory more scalable. I live in the north west of England, just outside Manchester, the Industrial revolution started here, It was once very big in the textile industry- However no textiles are made here anymore, the old Victorian buildings that used to produce these are now trendy apartments, or business parks. There are a few specialist providers, I can kind of see software going the same way. Much of software is grinding out work, that can be done very cheaply in India/China/and Africa soon. All we in the western world will be doing is niche specialist development. Perhaps -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Larry Hiscock Sent: 12 October 2009 22:09 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Indian development firms aren't all they're cracked up to be, especially in anything other than Microsoft technologies. I've seen exactly this progression in other language lists to which I belong. Indian firm gets contract based on price and claim to know the language. Indian firm tries to get free help from mailing lists, newsgroups, etc, because they don't understand the technology. Indian firm loses contract or is not renewed. We've got personal experience in taking development contracts away from this type of firm. Larry Hiscock Western Computer Services -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of bney...@hcmg.net Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 1:47 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Doesn't matter which. We are the next group that will be asked to work for reduced pay or our work will go to India. Bruce M Neylon Health Care Management Group Phone: (301) 608-8633 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program
The two main ingredients in any good software are.. [1] Guts and [2] Brains. --B -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of jpb-u2ug Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:53 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - I don't think anyone was questioning ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program
with a couple goto's spinkled in for good measure?? ;) -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brutzman, Bill Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 1:45 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program The two main ingredients in any good software are.. [1] Guts and [2] Brains. --B ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Haydon Bishop is out of the office.
I will be out of the office starting 13/10/2009 and will not return until 16/10/2009. I will respond to your message when I return. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table
Actually for many it is mass produced. Specification is being done to the absolute minutia, for example in the Unified Rational process, when generating use cases these get transmitted down to the architectural specifications and become the actual classes in the code (there is even software to build such skeleton code), with each method and property defined, again this is then used by the test plan to test each class/method/property etc. The coder kind of just fills in the gaps. In my previous employment we had whole teams of BA's, DBA's, System Architects, UI Designers, UX analysts etc, Then a bunch of people in the Philipines to do exactly as was written down in front of them. This kind of scenario happens a lot in larger projects. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of jpb-u2ug Sent: 13 October 2009 18:00 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table I don't see where you are coming from here. Every program I ever produce is for a specific purpose. We don't create one program and then have an assembly line that types it in several times over and over again. We just make copies of it. Programming takes skill, intelligence, and imagination. It is not a massed produced product like linen or towels where they have to have a body to recreate the product over and over. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:43 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Indian development firms are pretty much the same as any other - if you get a small highly focused team of experts they will achieve a lot. The problem is when you get large pools of programmers of various skill levels, and so need more management time than it would take to program it in the first place. But then this is in theory more scalable. I live in the north west of England, just outside Manchester, the Industrial revolution started here, It was once very big in the textile industry- However no textiles are made here anymore, the old Victorian buildings that used to produce these are now trendy apartments, or business parks. There are a few specialist providers, I can kind of see software going the same way. Much of software is grinding out work, that can be done very cheaply in India/China/and Africa soon. All we in the western world will be doing is niche specialist development. Perhaps -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Larry Hiscock Sent: 12 October 2009 22:09 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Indian development firms aren't all they're cracked up to be, especially in anything other than Microsoft technologies. I've seen exactly this progression in other language lists to which I belong. Indian firm gets contract based on price and claim to know the language. Indian firm tries to get free help from mailing lists, newsgroups, etc, because they don't understand the technology. Indian firm loses contract or is not renewed. We've got personal experience in taking development contracts away from this type of firm. Larry Hiscock Western Computer Services -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of bney...@hcmg.net Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 1:47 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Doesn't matter which. We are the next group that will be asked to work for reduced pay or our work will go to India. Bruce M Neylon Health Care Management Group Phone: (301) 608-8633 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2 is now Rocket U2
No, PS/RD/TL no longer has development in Russia. However D3 does work in Cyrillic - and Thai. Not sure if any other MV DBMS produts can make the same claim. T From: djordan Pick Systems actually had RD over in Russia 10 years ago, not sure if that is still the case ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2 is now Rocket U2
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009, Tony Gravagno wrote: No, PS/RD/TL no longer has development in Russia. However D3 does work in Cyrillic - and Thai. Not sure if any other MV DBMS produts can make the same claim. It was my understanding that JBase would work with Unicode data, stored in UTF-8 format. I'm not sure how thoroughly that carries through to the user interface. Regards, Bob Rasmussen, President, Rasmussen Software, Inc. personal e-mail: r...@anzio.com company e-mail: r...@anzio.com voice: (US) 503-624-0360 (9:00-6:00 Pacific Time) fax: (US) 503-624-0760 web: http://www.anzio.com street address: Rasmussen Software, Inc. 10240 SW Nimbus, Suite L9 Portland, OR 97223 USA ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table
With a number of the modern languages, there is a lot of code that is mind numbing boring and tedious. What is a couple of lines in unibasic is hundreds of lines in .Net, Java, etc. What is being outsourced is all the tedious unclever stuff such as defining variables and validations and other functions that don't require smarts but are responsible for a volume of the work in these languages. Ironically as in manufacturing, automation is replacing the manual repetitive work. The next release of .Net is reducing a lot of this unnecessary work. If you can structure coding to be like a production line catering for less skilled people, then you can automate it and that is what .Net is doing. Hence automation is going to kill the lucrative outsourcing business in the end. The key to survival is being resourceful, adaptive and innovative. The days of coding drones is becoming numbered. What businesses need are people who come up with innovative and clever ways of doing things that improves the bottom line. David Jordan ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table
If you are going to go that far with the minutia then why not just type it in and get done with it? Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:09 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Actually for many it is mass produced. Specification is being done to the absolute minutia, for example in the Unified Rational process, when generating use cases these get transmitted down to the architectural specifications and become the actual classes in the code (there is even software to build such skeleton code), with each method and property defined, again this is then used by the test plan to test each class/method/property etc. The coder kind of just fills in the gaps. In my previous employment we had whole teams of BA's, DBA's, System Architects, UI Designers, UX analysts etc, Then a bunch of people in the Philipines to do exactly as was written down in front of them. This kind of scenario happens a lot in larger projects. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of jpb-u2ug Sent: 13 October 2009 18:00 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table I don't see where you are coming from here. Every program I ever produce is for a specific purpose. We don't create one program and then have an assembly line that types it in several times over and over again. We just make copies of it. Programming takes skill, intelligence, and imagination. It is not a massed produced product like linen or towels where they have to have a body to recreate the product over and over. Jerry Banker -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:43 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Indian development firms are pretty much the same as any other - if you get a small highly focused team of experts they will achieve a lot. The problem is when you get large pools of programmers of various skill levels, and so need more management time than it would take to program it in the first place. But then this is in theory more scalable. I live in the north west of England, just outside Manchester, the Industrial revolution started here, It was once very big in the textile industry- However no textiles are made here anymore, the old Victorian buildings that used to produce these are now trendy apartments, or business parks. There are a few specialist providers, I can kind of see software going the same way. Much of software is grinding out work, that can be done very cheaply in India/China/and Africa soon. All we in the western world will be doing is niche specialist development. Perhaps -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Larry Hiscock Sent: 12 October 2009 22:09 To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Indian development firms aren't all they're cracked up to be, especially in anything other than Microsoft technologies. I've seen exactly this progression in other language lists to which I belong. Indian firm gets contract based on price and claim to know the language. Indian firm tries to get free help from mailing lists, newsgroups, etc, because they don't understand the technology. Indian firm loses contract or is not renewed. We've got personal experience in taking development contracts away from this type of firm. Larry Hiscock Western Computer Services -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of bney...@hcmg.net Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 1:47 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table Doesn't matter which. We are the next group that will be asked to work for reduced pay or our work will go to India. Bruce M Neylon Health Care Management Group Phone: (301) 608-8633 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___
