Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users
Thanks to all who responded. We aren't re-using the same machine but it's still nice to know we would experience a 30-40% drop if we were. Looks like we may have to tune the virtual machine to minimize the performance drop... but I'm not at all sure how to estimate how much it will be. Eric Armstrong Programmer/Analyst Lobel Financial LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users
Uv/NET ? Wow. I didn't know anyone actually used that. -Original Message- From: Manu Fernandes e...@infodata.lu To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 4:14 am Subject: Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users hi, we have done it with a 150 uv Enterprise edition, we run +- 3 sessions per user + UV/Net access. database specs : - 65GB, we use mostly DEFINE.DF vs 65BIT files applications type - SB+ / SBClient on telnet - UV/Net is running ; we share another uv for wharehouse activity hardware setting - dell 12 proc, 256 GB ram - SAN on SCSI vmware setting - ESX - 4 processor dedicated - 128 GB RAM os setting - Redhat Enterprise - regarding a pure hardware system, same config, we loose 30% of perf. then we push the memory larger the database, Linux push the complete DB on cache an we have a very powerfull system. Manu Eric Armstrong earmstr...@lobelfinancial.com a écrit : Has anyone virtualized a Universe server of 100+ users, and if so, could you share how it went? Eric Armstrong Programmer/Analyst Lobel Financial LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users
Yes, UV/NET is a good way to network UNIVERSE systems. I saw a UNIVERSE job site recently have networked UV systems WITHOUT using UV/NET. They used the networking built into the OS (Windows or UNIX). Sounds good, right? Not until you realize that there was no record locking because the OS had no concept of a UNIVERSE record. It also didn't allow you to file away the record. If you pulled up a record on one system, and then pulled it up on the other, there would be no message and no lock. You can use UV/NET and a file pointer with the '!' designator to specify the system and it works well (record locking, etc.). Robert Norman . ROBERT NORMAN AND ASSOCIATES 23441 Golden Springs Dr., #289, Diamond Bar, CA 91765 (951) 541-1668 i...@keyway.net mailto:i...@keyway.net http://users.keyway.net/~ice/ http://users.keyway.net/%7Eice/ Affordable UNIVERSE programming services for PICK/BASIC, DATA/BASIC, UniVerse Basic, UniBasic, R/BASIC, jBC. On 8/21/2012 7:31 AM, Wjhonson wrote: Uv/NET ? Wow. I didn't know anyone actually used that. -Original Message- From: Manu Fernandes e...@infodata.lu To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 4:14 am Subject: Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users hi, we have done it with a 150 uv Enterprise edition, we run +- 3 sessions per user + UV/Net access. database specs : - 65GB, we use mostly DEFINE.DF vs 65BIT files applications type - SB+ / SBClient on telnet - UV/Net is running ; we share another uv for wharehouse activity hardware setting - dell 12 proc, 256 GB ram - SAN on SCSI vmware setting - ESX - 4 processor dedicated - 128 GB RAM os setting - Redhat Enterprise - regarding a pure hardware system, same config, we loose 30% of perf. then we push the memory larger the database, Linux push the complete DB on cache an we have a very powerfull system. Manu Eric Armstrong earmstr...@lobelfinancial.com a écrit : Has anyone virtualized a Universe server of 100+ users, and if so, could you share how it went? Eric Armstrong Programmer/Analyst Lobel Financial LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users
Hi, I saw a UNIVERSE job site recently have networked UV systems WITHOUT using UV/NET. They used the networking built into the OS (Windows or UNIX). Sounds good, right? Not until you realize that there was no record locking because the OS had no concept of a UNIVERSE record. It's worse than that. There is no group level locking which protects the pointers that link the internal structure of groups. Without group locks, the chances of corrupting a file are very high. Not just losing records but losing the structural integrity of the file. Martin Phillips Ladybridge Systems Ltd 17b Coldstream Lane, Hardingstone, Northampton NN4 6DB, England +44 (0)1604-709200 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users
Well for networked UV systems, you would only need group and record locking *if* the UV systems were trying to write to each others hashed files. But how do you even reference a hashed file, living on a different server ? Using an UNC path? Does that work? I would think that Universe wouldn't even try to open a file as hashed using just a Windows PATH type pointer. It could open the directory possibly. But on writing conflicts you should get a block at the Windows level anyway. -Original Message- From: Robert i...@keyway.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 8:22 am Subject: Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users Yes, UV/NET is a good way to network UNIVERSE systems. I saw a UNIVERSE job site recently have networked UV systems WITHOUT using UV/NET. They used the networking built into the OS (Windows or UNIX). Sounds good, right? Not until you realize that there was no record locking because the OS had no concept of a UNIVERSE record. It also didn't allow you to file away the record. If you pulled up a record on one system, and then pulled it up on the other, there would be no message and no lock. You can use UV/NET and a file pointer with the '!' designator to specify the system and it works well (record locking, etc.). Robert Norman . ROBERT NORMAN AND ASSOCIATES 23441 Golden Springs Dr., #289, Diamond Bar, CA 91765 (951) 541-1668 i...@keyway.net mailto:i...@keyway.net http://users.keyway.net/~ice/ http://users.keyway.net/%7Eice/ Affordable UNIVERSE programming services for PICK/BASIC, DATA/BASIC, UniVerse Basic, UniBasic, R/BASIC, jBC. On 8/21/2012 7:31 AM, Wjhonson wrote: Uv/NET ? Wow. I didn't know anyone actually used that. -Original Message- From: Manu Fernandes e...@infodata.lu To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 4:14 am Subject: Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users hi, we have done it with a 150 uv Enterprise edition, we run +- 3 sessions per user + UV/Net access. database specs : - 65GB, we use mostly DEFINE.DF vs 65BIT files applications type - SB+ / SBClient on telnet - UV/Net is running ; we share another uv for wharehouse activity hardware setting - dell 12 proc, 256 GB ram - SAN on SCSI vmware setting - ESX - 4 processor dedicated - 128 GB RAM os setting - Redhat Enterprise - regarding a pure hardware system, same config, we loose 30% of perf. then we push the memory larger the database, Linux push the complete DB on cache an we have a very powerfull system. Manu Eric Armstrong earmstr...@lobelfinancial.com a écrit : Has anyone virtualized a Universe server of 100+ users, and if so, could you share how it went? Eric Armstrong Programmer/Analyst Lobel Financial LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users
Hi again, Well for networked UV systems, you would only need group and record locking *if* the UV systems were trying to write to each others hashed files. Almost but there is still the possibility of the remote system reading a group for which the local system has a group write lock and is changing pointers. I have in the past spent many happy hours fixing UV files where a client had accessed the same file from two system using a Unix mounted drive to access the remote file. Martin Phillips Ladybridge Systems Ltd 17b Coldstream Lane, Hardingstone, Northampton NN4 6DB, England +44 (0)1604-709200 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users
There's an example of how the path is formed in the help file. ORION!/u1/filename This example is shown if you type HELP BASIC SYSTEM() . Another example: OPEN ORION!/u1/user/file TO FU.ORIONFILE You can type HELP BASIC TIMEOUT to see this info. You can see all of the info in the UV/NET II guide on Rocket's website. Robert Norman . ROBERT NORMAN AND ASSOCIATES 23441 Golden Springs Dr., #289, Diamond Bar, CA 91765 (951) 541-1668 i...@keyway.net mailto:i...@keyway.net http://users.keyway.net/~ice/ http://users.keyway.net/%7Eice/ Affordable UNIVERSE programming services for PICK/BASIC, DATA/BASIC, UniVerse Basic, UniBasic, R/BASIC, jBC. On 8/21/2012 8:41 AM, Wjhonson wrote: Well for networked UV systems, you would only need group and record locking *if* the UV systems were trying to write to each others hashed files. But how do you even reference a hashed file, living on a different server ? Using an UNC path? Does that work? I would think that Universe wouldn't even try to open a file as hashed using just a Windows PATH type pointer. It could open the directory possibly. But on writing conflicts you should get a block at the Windows level anyway. -Original Message- From: Robert i...@keyway.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 8:22 am Subject: Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users Yes, UV/NET is a good way to network UNIVERSE systems. I saw a UNIVERSE job site recently have networked UV systems WITHOUT using UV/NET. They used the networking built into the OS (Windows or UNIX). Sounds good, right? Not until you realize that there was no record locking because the OS had no concept of a UNIVERSE record. It also didn't allow you to file away the record. If you pulled up a record on one system, and then pulled it up on the other, there would be no message and no lock. You can use UV/NET and a file pointer with the '!' designator to specify the system and it works well (record locking, etc.). Robert Norman . ROBERT NORMAN AND ASSOCIATES 23441 Golden Springs Dr., #289, Diamond Bar, CA 91765 (951) 541-1668 i...@keyway.net mailto:i...@keyway.net http://users.keyway.net/~ice/ http://users.keyway.net/%7Eice/ Affordable UNIVERSE programming services for PICK/BASIC, DATA/BASIC, UniVerse Basic, UniBasic, R/BASIC, jBC. On 8/21/2012 7:31 AM, Wjhonson wrote: Uv/NET ? Wow. I didn't know anyone actually used that. -Original Message- From: Manu Fernandes e...@infodata.lu To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 4:14 am Subject: Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users hi, we have done it with a 150 uv Enterprise edition, we run +- 3 sessions per user + UV/Net access. database specs : - 65GB, we use mostly DEFINE.DF vs 65BIT files applications type - SB+ / SBClient on telnet - UV/Net is running ; we share another uv for wharehouse activity hardware setting - dell 12 proc, 256 GB ram - SAN on SCSI vmware setting - ESX - 4 processor dedicated - 128 GB RAM os setting - Redhat Enterprise - regarding a pure hardware system, same config, we loose 30% of perf. then we push the memory larger the database, Linux push the complete DB on cache an we have a very powerfull system. Manu Eric Armstrong earmstr...@lobelfinancial.com a écrit : Has anyone virtualized a Universe server of 100+ users, and if so, could you share how it went? Eric Armstrong Programmer/Analyst Lobel Financial LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users
hi, Badly knowed, UV/NET is a embedded client server module which work over unirpc system. Then when a uv system open a remote uv file ; uv/net start (if not already established) a uv session on the remote server. On remote uv uvlictool, port-status, list-readu reports uv/net session like phantoms session. Then when uv system READ/WRITE on the remote file, UVNet send a request to do it by the remote session. Locks (group and record) are maintined on the remote server linked to the uv net phantom session. UVNET module must be licensed on uv remote system only (where files are adressed). a uv subr is provided to launch a uv/basic on the remote uv ; most powerfull vs. select/readnext/read on a remote file. Manu Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com a écrit : Well for networked UV systems, you would only need group and record locking *if* the UV systems were trying to write to each others hashed files. But how do you even reference a hashed file, living on a different server ? Using an UNC path? Does that work? I would think that Universe wouldn't even try to open a file as hashed using just a Windows PATH type pointer. It could open the directory possibly. But on writing conflicts you should get a block at the Windows level anyway. -Original Message- From: Robert i...@keyway.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 8:22 am Subject: Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users Yes, UV/NET is a good way to network UNIVERSE systems. I saw a UNIVERSE job site recently have networked UV systems WITHOUT using UV/NET. They used the networking built into the OS (Windows or UNIX). Sounds good, right? Not until you realize that there was no record locking because the OS had no concept of a UNIVERSE record. It also didn't allow you to file away the record. If you pulled up a record on one system, and then pulled it up on the other, there would be no message and no lock. You can use UV/NET and a file pointer with the '!' designator to specify the system and it works well (record locking, etc.). Robert Norman . ROBERT NORMAN AND ASSOCIATES 23441 Golden Springs Dr., #289, Diamond Bar, CA 91765 (951) 541-1668 i...@keyway.net mailto:i...@keyway.net http://users.keyway.net/~ice/ http://users.keyway.net/%7Eice/ Affordable UNIVERSE programming services for PICK/BASIC, DATA/BASIC, UniVerse Basic, UniBasic, R/BASIC, jBC. On 8/21/2012 7:31 AM, Wjhonson wrote: Uv/NET ? Wow. I didn't know anyone actually used that. -Original Message- From: Manu Fernandes e...@infodata.lu To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Tue, Aug 21, 2012 4:14 am Subject: Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users hi, we have done it with a 150 uv Enterprise edition, we run +- 3 sessions per user + UV/Net access. database specs : - 65GB, we use mostly DEFINE.DF vs 65BIT files applications type - SB+ / SBClient on telnet - UV/Net is running ; we share another uv for wharehouse activity hardware setting - dell 12 proc, 256 GB ram - SAN on SCSI vmware setting - ESX - 4 processor dedicated - 128 GB RAM os setting - Redhat Enterprise - regarding a pure hardware system, same config, we loose 30% of perf. then we push the memory larger the database, Linux push the complete DB on cache an we have a very powerfull system. Manu Eric Armstrong earmstr...@lobelfinancial.com a écrit : Has anyone virtualized a Universe server of 100+ users, and if so, could you share how it went? Eric Armstrong Programmer/Analyst Lobel Financial LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users
On 21/08/12 17:20, Robert wrote: There's an example of how the path is formed in the help file. ORION!/u1/filename This example is shown if you type HELP BASIC SYSTEM() . Another example: OPEN ORION!/u1/user/file TO FU.ORIONFILE You can type HELP BASIC TIMEOUT to see this info. You can see all of the info in the UV/NET II guide on Rocket's website. Robert Norman Bear in mind uv/net comes from the old INFORMATION network product. And as far as Pr1mes were concerned, unless you were an admin it was tricky to know whether a file was remote or not - there was no clue in the file name. One of my favourite war stories along those lines is the user who wanted to test a tape drive - so she asked it to back up a disk pack over a 9600 modem. Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users
Hi Eric, Be prepared for a significant performance drop compared to a bare metal machine. Similar results to what Manu posted our experience has been a 30% to 40% drop of performance. That is if you compare Virtual vs non virtual on the same machine. We tried to get VM Ware specialist to performance tune the virtual machine but could not get anywhere. I think it is a limitation to the disk block size configuration in VMWare. The minimum size you can set is 1MB. I would also be interested to hear from others what type of performance they get out of a VMWare Universe server. Regards Adrian Halid Senior Analyst/Programmer ___ NOTICE : This e-mail and any attachments are intended for the addressee(s) only and may contain confidential or privileged material. Any unauthorised review, use, alteration, disclosure or distribution of this e-mail (including any attachments) by an unintended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender as soon as possible by return e-mail and then delete both messages. ___ -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Eric Armstrong Sent: Monday, 20 August 2012 11:59 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users Has anyone virtualized a Universe server of 100+ users, and if so, could you share how it went? Eric Armstrong Programmer/Analyst Lobel Financial LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Virtualizing a Universe server of 100+ users
Has anyone virtualized a Universe server of 100+ users, and if so, could you share how it went? Eric Armstrong Programmer/Analyst Lobel Financial LOBEL FINANCIAL PRIVACY NOTICE: This communication may contain confidential company information that is protected by federal law. Federal regulations prohibit the disclosure (or re-disclosure) of confidential information without the written consent of the person(s) to whom it pertains. Additionally, the views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
