Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Louie Bergsagel
I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on
my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of
Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's
Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to learn Python
as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program controls is through
indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so why
not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be glad
you did.
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
So your company hired you to write in Python with no work experience in Python?
 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Louie Bergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 12:21 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and on
my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University of
Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information, Henco's
Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to learn Python
as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program controls is through
indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so why
not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be glad
you did.
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread u2ug
mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie
Bergsagel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and
on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University
of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information,
Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to
learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program
controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even
go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so
why
not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
glad
you did.
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
For a single line.
I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's 
supposed to end.
With a semi colon?  Horrible.
Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List 
u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie
Bergsagel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and
on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University
of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information,
Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to
learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program
controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even
go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so
why
not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
glad
you did.
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wols Lists
On 09/12/12 17:38, Wjhonson wrote:
 For a single line.
 I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's 
 supposed to end.
 With a semi colon?  Horrible.
 Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.
 
Why don't you take the OP's advice and learn some Python! I don't know
the language but, actually, imho it's pretty obvious how the IF would
know :-)

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Charlie Noah
If it's multi-line, the compiler doesn't know, and keeps adding code to 
the ELSE section. DAMHIKT :-)


Amen to your last statement!

Charlie

On 12-09-2012 11:38 AM, Wjhonson wrote:

For a single line.
I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's 
supposed to end.
With a semi colon?  Horrible.
Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.

  

  

  


-Original Message-
From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List 
u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie
Bergsagel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and
on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University
of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information,
Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to
learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program
controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even
go Pick one better:
  an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so
why
not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
glad
you did.
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Brian Leach
since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and 
sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else syntax that 
is the one that trips me.

Basic

If cond Then
blah
End Else
blah
End

Delphi

If cond Then Begin
blah;
End Else Begin
blah;
End;

VB.NET

If cond Then
blah
Else
blah
End If

.. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome!

But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the syntactic 
vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course which is always 
horrible. grin

Brian

Sent from my iPad

On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote:

 For a single line.
 I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's 
 supposed to end.
 With a semi colon?  Horrible.
 Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
 To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List 
 u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 
 mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie
 Bergsagel
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and
 on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University
 of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information,
 Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to
 learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program
 controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even
 go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so
 why
 not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
 glad
 you did.
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
 ___
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 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
if not(cond) then Jump Label1
cmd1
cmd2
Jump Label2
*
Label1:
cmd3
cmd4
*
Label2:
That's all folks

I think SMI's RPL has this type of requirement
If you mean the IF knows when it ENDS because it hits a JUMP that's not a very 
nice solution



 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 10:06 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and 
sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else syntax that 
is the one that trips me.

Basic

If cond Then
blah
End Else
blah
End

Delphi

If cond Then Begin
blah;
End Else Begin
blah;
End;

VB.NET

If cond Then
blah
Else
blah
End If

.. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome!

But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the syntactic 
vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course which is always 
horrible. grin

Brian

Sent from my iPad

On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote:

 For a single line.
 I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where it's 
supposed to end.
 With a semi colon?  Horrible.
 Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
 To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List 
u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 
 mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie
 Bergsagel
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work and
 on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the University
 of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime Information,
 Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  It was fun to
 learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.  Program
 controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.  They even
 go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so
 why
 not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
 glad
 you did.
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
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 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Martin Braid
I don't have time for this  Give us all a break

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: 09 December 2012 19:01
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

if not(cond) then Jump Label1
cmd1
cmd2
Jump Label2
*
Label1:
cmd3
cmd4
*
Label2:
That's all folks

I think SMI's RPL has this type of requirement If you mean the IF knows
when it ENDS because it hits a JUMP that's not a very nice solution



 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 10:06 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and
sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else
syntax that is the one that trips me.

Basic

If cond Then
blah
End Else
blah
End

Delphi

If cond Then Begin
blah;
End Else Begin
blah;
End;

VB.NET

If cond Then
blah
Else
blah
End If

.. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome!

But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the
syntactic vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course
which is always horrible. grin

Brian

Sent from my iPad

On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote:

 For a single line.
 I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where 
 it's
supposed to end.
 With a semi colon?  Horrible.
 Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
 To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List
u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 
 mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie 
 Bergsagel
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work 
 and on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the 
 University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime 
 Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  
 It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.

 Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.

 They even go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so 
 why
 not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
 glad
 you did.
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
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 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
Why are you responding?
 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Martin Braid mbr...@epicor.com
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 11:04 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


I don't have time for this  Give us all a break

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: 09 December 2012 19:01
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

if not(cond) then Jump Label1
cmd1
cmd2
Jump Label2
*
Label1:
cmd3
cmd4
*
Label2:
That's all folks

I think SMI's RPL has this type of requirement If you mean the IF knows
when it ENDS because it hits a JUMP that's not a very nice solution



 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 10:06 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


since I often find myself working in mvBasic, Delphi, C#, javascript and
sometimes VB.NET at the same time it is the multiline end and else
syntax that is the one that trips me.

Basic

If cond Then
blah
End Else
blah
End

Delphi

If cond Then Begin
blah;
End Else Begin
blah;
End;

VB.NET

If cond Then
blah
Else
blah
End If

.. So sometimes the C# and javascript braces are welcome!

But I would add that good code is beautiful irrespective of the
syntactic vagaries of the chosen language - except for TSQL of course
which is always horrible. grin

Brian

Sent from my iPad

On 9 Dec 2012, at 17:38, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote:

 For a single line.
 I don't understand how an IF would know, for multiple lines, where 
 it's
supposed to end.
 With a semi colon?  Horrible.
 Computer languages should be written for humans to read, not machines.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2ug simpson-u...@gerzio.ca
 To: louiebergsagel louiebergsa...@gmail.com; U2 Users List
u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:32 am
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 
 mv basic doesn't require an END to an IF either
 
 -Original Message-
 From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
 [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Louie 
 Bergsagel
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:21 AM
 To: U2 Users List
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 I'm in my current job because I was willing to learn Python at work 
 and on my own dime.  I took a beginner's course in Python at the 
 University of Washington because I didn't know much besides Prime 
 Information, Henco's Info, Structure/4, UniVerse, UniData and MITS.  
 It was fun to learn Python as the syntax was so similar to Pick basic.

 Program controls is through indentation, which we usually use anyway.

 They even go Pick one better:
 an IF statement doesn't need an END.  They all require one, right, so 
 why
 not assume it?  I love that thinking.   Learn some Python.  You'll be
 glad
 you did.
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
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Registration Number: 2338274.   Registered Office:  6th Floor, One London Wall, 
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Tony Gravagno
 From: Martin Braid 
 I don't have time for this  Give us all a break

I completely agree. This is  nonsense.

And for historical accuracy and with some relevance to Pick, RPL did
and still does support one or multi-line IF just like every other
language on the planet.

So please, done already?
T

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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
Those of use who *wish* to discuss it can continue, and those who don't want to 
read it, should stop reading it and whining about being *forced* to read it ;)

You aren't.


 
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Martin Braid
So sad. Do you have any hobbies?   Other than creating havoc on
respectable U2 lists I mean. I can recommend a good psychiatrist.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: 09 December 2012 20:15
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

Those of us who *wish* to discuss it can continue, and those who don't
want to read it, should stop reading it and whining about being *forced*
to read it ;)

You aren't.


 
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-12-09 Thread Wjhonson
Let me hold up a mirror to the person who wanted this thread to end.
Stop... talking
:) seems like a good solution to me


 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Martin Braid mbr...@epicor.com
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 12:23 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


So sad. Do you have any hobbies?   Other than creating havoc on
respectable U2 lists I mean. I can recommend a good psychiatrist.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: 09 December 2012 20:15
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

Those of us who *wish* to discuss it can continue, and those who don't
want to read it, should stop reading it and whining about being *forced*
to read it ;)

You aren't.


 
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-05 Thread Charlie Noah
I do pretty well with a QWERTY keyboard, since I've been using one all 
my life, starting with an old Underwood typewriter. I don't think I want 
to try to learn the Dvorak keyboard at this point. I have enough 
frustrations in my life. :-) Thanks for the tip, though.


Actually I did start playing the guitar again after my stroke. I did OK 
and can strum a little with my right hand, but I certainly won't win any 
awards. Can you play a guitar with just one hand?


Thanks,
Charlie

On 11-03-2012 5:36 AM, Wols Lists wrote:

On 02/11/12 16:31, Charlie Noah wrote:

Left handed only, when I used to be right handed?

Try and get a left-handed-dvorjak keyboard layout. If you're on windows
you should be able to find a key mapping somewhere. It'll then take some
getting used to :-) but it should make life easier. I swear by
trackballs and ergonomic keyboards, then other people curse when they
use my workstation (at one job, I had my ergonomic and an ordinary
keyboard plugged in, for people borrowing my desk. I don't think I went
as far as trackball plus mouse, though).

Another tip, learn to play piano or classical guitar - it'll improve
your typing :-) There are a few pieces specially written for left hand
(a famous pianist lost his right hand in the Great War).

I'm actually right-handed, left-eyed, which means I'm forced to be
partially ambidextrous.

Cheers,
Wol

On 11-02-2012 10:54 AM, Wjhonson wrote:

Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing

Took me from 42 wpm to 78 wpm in two weeks.
I'm not kidding


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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-05 Thread Wols Lists
On 05/11/12 12:36, Charlie Noah wrote:
 I do pretty well with a QWERTY keyboard, since I've been using one all
 my life, starting with an old Underwood typewriter. I don't think I want
 to try to learn the Dvorak keyboard at this point. I have enough
 frustrations in my life. :-) Thanks for the tip, though.
 
 Actually I did start playing the guitar again after my stroke. I did OK
 and can strum a little with my right hand, but I certainly won't win any
 awards. Can you play a guitar with just one hand?
 
I'd probably have major difficulty, but then I'm a classical guitarist -
which is why I'm a six-fingered typist. My left hand is fine, but I
hunt-n-peck with the first two fingers on my right hand.

But if you can strum, and manage the chord changes with the left hand,
it should certainly help. How much control do you have with right hand?
If you can manage to finger-pick it might help in lots of ways - then
again it might not. If you think you can do it, get an easy classical
guitar tutor and have a go.

Sorry to hear about the stroke though, I've much enjoyed the chatting on
the list(s) over the years, and it's not the news one wants to hear. I
can understand your frustrations, I'm a carer, and while I'm not looking
after someone who's had a stroke it's still easy to see how difficult it
is. It's so frustrating to have to teach my wife how to use her laptop -
things she knows how to do but doesn't know how to do. She'll know she
knew but she doesn't have a clue - and then it just comes back as if it
never went!

Cheers,
Wol
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-03 Thread Wols Lists
On 02/11/12 16:31, Charlie Noah wrote:
 Left handed only, when I used to be right handed?

Try and get a left-handed-dvorjak keyboard layout. If you're on windows
you should be able to find a key mapping somewhere. It'll then take some
getting used to :-) but it should make life easier. I swear by
trackballs and ergonomic keyboards, then other people curse when they
use my workstation (at one job, I had my ergonomic and an ordinary
keyboard plugged in, for people borrowing my desk. I don't think I went
as far as trackball plus mouse, though).

Another tip, learn to play piano or classical guitar - it'll improve
your typing :-) There are a few pieces specially written for left hand
(a famous pianist lost his right hand in the Great War).

I'm actually right-handed, left-eyed, which means I'm forced to be
partially ambidextrous.

Cheers,
Wol
 
 On 11-02-2012 10:54 AM, Wjhonson wrote:
 Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing

 Took me from 42 wpm to 78 wpm in two weeks.
 I'm not kidding

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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-02 Thread Wols Lists
On 02/11/12 02:49, Bill Haskett wrote:
 Kind of reminds me of my phone.  It's gotten so many functions, that
 barely work, now I can't even make a simple phone call.  So I ditched my
 Android and went to a pay-as-you-go simple phone.  Now I can receive and
 make calls without any problems.  Who'd have thought?  :-)

:-)

I follow Linus on Google+ and there's been a major rant about screen
resolution and how laptops (and indeed desktops) are now so lo-res.

The typical top-end laptop ten years ago had a screen res about
2000x1280. Now it's pretty much impossible to find anything above 1080!

(And no, hi-res does not necessarily equal small. When working close-up
at a large screen it often is the difference between readable and
unreadable - large HD screens are meant to be viewed at a distance far
too far away for sensible working.)

Cheers,
Wol
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-02 Thread Brian Leach
There's a comedy radio show I listen to, and a few weeks back they had a 'My
New App Does ..' round.
One of the contributors said (paraphrased)

I've got a brilliant new app!

It shows a set of numbers on my display.. 
and if you press them in the right order .. it sends a message to one of
your friends.. 

And you know what? If they respond - you can even talk to each other!

Whoever would have thought of adding that to a phone?

Brian

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wols Lists
Sent: 02 November 2012 10:57
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

On 02/11/12 02:49, Bill Haskett wrote:
 Kind of reminds me of my phone.  It's gotten so many functions, that 
 barely work, now I can't even make a simple phone call.  So I ditched 
 my Android and went to a pay-as-you-go simple phone.  Now I can 
 receive and make calls without any problems.  Who'd have thought?  :-)




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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-02 Thread Charlie Noah
I'm with you, Bill. My phone makes and receives calls - period. I think 
you might be able to text on it (remember having to press 3 numbers to 
get 1 letter?) - but I don't use it. The best part - it costs me 
$99/year! And no, I don't talk on it while driving.


Charlie

Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store
Home of Safety Net Shipping
http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com
Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232)

On 11-01-2012 9:49 PM, Bill Haskett wrote:
Kind of reminds me of my phone.  It's gotten so many functions, that 
barely work, now I can't even make a simple phone call.  So I ditched 
my Android and went to a pay-as-you-go simple phone.  Now I can 
receive and make calls without any problems.  Who'd have thought?  :-)


Bill

P.S.  Now I'm waiting for the new Thinkpad X1 to get a better docking 
station and offload my business email to the cloud, where I can 
securely store and access 10Gb of archived email.  Then I'll just walk 
around with a phone that works and an ultra-thin ultra-fast 
workstation I can open up and access the internet in a few seconds, to 
get whatever I need (and be able to read it and interface by typing 70 
wpm).  Ahhh...



- Original Message -
*From:* 3xk547...@sneakemail.com
*To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
*Date:* 11/1/2012 4:25 PM
*Subject:* Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

In the mainstream, it's generally understood that one must be in a
constant learning cycle, or skills get outdated in a matter of 6-18
months. So .NET people need to understand the difference between
WebForms and MVC, and adapt to generics, lambdas, and dynamic types.
Java people need to adjust to changes in frameworks, networking,
security, and XML parsing. PHP people need to understand competing
frameworks as well as balance their server-side skills with JavaScript
and related client frameworks. Any browser developer needs to shift
with browser changes, now HTML5, CSS3, etc. And some of us need to do
all of the above and then some.

But what changes in the Pick world? Not much. And how do a lot of Pick
people respond to that? By not feeling a need to do anything but
R83-compatible BASIC.

There are a lot  of jobs out there for developers of new UI's for
existing MV apps, but few people available who can satisfy the demand.
And yet Pick people have  had nearly two decades to improve their
skills. Every developer here should be qualified for the job
associated with this thread, because that ad looks pretty much like
any other ad in this industry these days.

I'm not trying to paint every Pickie as a dinosaur or a laggard - far
from it. I'm just saying there are too many people who still only know
BASIC while there have been any number of opportunities to move beyond
that. And there are any number of examples of people in the mainstream
who are in a constant mode of adaptation to prove that this is not
only possible but the established norm.

We are where we are in the Pick industry because Pick people generally
become complacent in the belief that they are already using the best
database in the world, so they don't need to learn anything else.
That's just wrong at so many levels. That cripples the industry,
making it more difficult for VARs to sell their software and for the
DBMS providers to continue investing in this niche market.

And let's face it, the additional problem that many here face is that
the developer base is now aging, and it's difficult to start from
scratch and jump on Mr Toad's Wild Technology Ride. We just can't do
that anymore - myself included. What this means is that many people
need to recognize their own limitations, and transition their approach
to finding employment and consulting gigs. Position as a manager
rather than as a programmer. Profile your skills as a problem solver
who can get qualified people to write code, rather than competing with
a million people who can write code but can't solve real world
business problems. Sell your understanding of business rules, because
this is an area where you excel compared to all of those people who
can write code but have no idea what to write.

T



From: John Lorentz

David Jordan wrote:

you have to change the way you get the job interview.

Only works if there are jobs available.

In Portland, the long list of what people are looking for in skills

when

hiring does not include Pick (or other varieties).  And years of
experience in the field plus knowledge of xxx (say, PHP) does

not

equal five years of experience in PHP specifically using tools x

and y

in their equation, and you don't get past the initial screening.

So I scramble to get what I can.  Right now, I'm working QA on a
contract and haven't had a chance for a permanent job for seven

years

now.

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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-02 Thread Mecki Foerthmann

Come on Charlie, texting is cool and it is easy.
If I want to talk to my son in France for instance, I send him a text to 
switch on his PC so we can use Skype to actually talk and vice versa.
The workshop sending me a text that my bike is ready to be collected - 
now how cool is that?

You're an American and you guys had letters on your phone keys for ages.
OK if you would have to remember that B is hitting 2 twice and S is 
hitting 7 four times I could see your point, but it's really not that 
difficult when the letters are actually displayed on the keys and you 
soon get the hang of it.
I bought a phone with especially big keys so I can see the letters 
because my eyes are not what they used to be. ;-)
And no, it's not one of those so called smart phones - it cost me just 
15£ including bluetooth and camera - and no contract.


On 02/11/2012 12:07, Charlie Noah wrote:
I'm with you, Bill. My phone makes and receives calls - period. I 
think you might be able to text on it (remember having to press 3 
numbers to get 1 letter?) - but I don't use it. The best part - it 
costs me $99/year! And no, I don't talk on it while driving.


Charlie

Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store
Home of Safety Net Shipping
http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com
Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232)



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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-02 Thread Charlie Noah
Just old fashioned, I guess, Mecki. My phone has 12 buttons: 1-0, * and 
#, and the necessary Send, End, Menu and cursor arrows. That's enough 
buttons for me. I know what you mean about the eyes not being what they 
used to be. I've been looking for an easier to read keyboard, maybe with 
black letters on white or yellow keys. I've tried lighted keys and they 
never worked very well. The painted (or inked) letters rub off so fast, 
and I've never mastered touch typing. Having only one hand to type with 
doesn't help, either. And speaking of being old fashioned, do you know 
it's almost impossible to get a keyboard with the big, L shaped Enter 
key and the \ on the top row next to the Backspace key?


Getting older by the second,
Charlie

On 11-02-2012 7:52 AM, Mecki Foerthmann wrote:

Come on Charlie, texting is cool and it is easy.
If I want to talk to my son in France for instance, I send him a text 
to switch on his PC so we can use Skype to actually talk and vice versa.
The workshop sending me a text that my bike is ready to be collected - 
now how cool is that?

You're an American and you guys had letters on your phone keys for ages.
OK if you would have to remember that B is hitting 2 twice and S is 
hitting 7 four times I could see your point, but it's really not that 
difficult when the letters are actually displayed on the keys and you 
soon get the hang of it.
I bought a phone with especially big keys so I can see the letters 
because my eyes are not what they used to be. ;-)
And no, it's not one of those so called smart phones - it cost me just 
15£ including bluetooth and camera - and no contract.


On 02/11/2012 12:07, Charlie Noah wrote:
I'm with you, Bill. My phone makes and receives calls - period. I 
think you might be able to text on it (remember having to press 3 
numbers to get 1 letter?) - but I don't use it. The best part - it 
costs me $99/year! And no, I don't talk on it while driving.


Charlie

Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store
Home of Safety Net Shipping
http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com
Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232)



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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-02 Thread Wjhonson
Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing

Took me from 42 wpm to 78 wpm in two weeks.
I'm not kidding

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Fri, Nov 2, 2012 6:07 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


Just old fashioned, I guess, Mecki. My phone has 12 buttons: 1-0, * and 
#, and the necessary Send, End, Menu and cursor arrows. That's enough 
buttons for me. I know what you mean about the eyes not being what they 
used to be. I've been looking for an easier to read keyboard, maybe with 
black letters on white or yellow keys. I've tried lighted keys and they 
never worked very well. The painted (or inked) letters rub off so fast, 
and I've never mastered touch typing. Having only one hand to type with 
doesn't help, either. And speaking of being old fashioned, do you know 
it's almost impossible to get a keyboard with the big, L shaped Enter 
key and the \ on the top row next to the Backspace key?

Getting older by the second,
Charlie

On 11-02-2012 7:52 AM, Mecki Foerthmann wrote:
 Come on Charlie, texting is cool and it is easy.
 If I want to talk to my son in France for instance, I send him a text 
 to switch on his PC so we can use Skype to actually talk and vice versa.
 The workshop sending me a text that my bike is ready to be collected - 
 now how cool is that?
 You're an American and you guys had letters on your phone keys for ages.
 OK if you would have to remember that B is hitting 2 twice and S is 
 hitting 7 four times I could see your point, but it's really not that 
 difficult when the letters are actually displayed on the keys and you 
 soon get the hang of it.
 I bought a phone with especially big keys so I can see the letters 
 because my eyes are not what they used to be. ;-)
 And no, it's not one of those so called smart phones - it cost me just 
 15£ including bluetooth and camera - and no contract.

 On 02/11/2012 12:07, Charlie Noah wrote:
 I'm with you, Bill. My phone makes and receives calls - period. I 
 think you might be able to text on it (remember having to press 3 
 numbers to get 1 letter?) - but I don't use it. The best part - it 
 costs me $99/year! And no, I don't talk on it while driving.

 Charlie

 Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store
 Home of Safety Net Shipping
 http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com
 Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232)


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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-02 Thread Charlie Noah

Left handed only, when I used to be right handed?

On 11-02-2012 10:54 AM, Wjhonson wrote:

Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing

Took me from 42 wpm to 78 wpm in two weeks.
I'm not kidding

  

  

  


-Original Message-
From: Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Fri, Nov 2, 2012 6:07 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


Just old fashioned, I guess, Mecki. My phone has 12 buttons: 1-0, * and
#, and the necessary Send, End, Menu and cursor arrows. That's enough
buttons for me. I know what you mean about the eyes not being what they
used to be. I've been looking for an easier to read keyboard, maybe with
black letters on white or yellow keys. I've tried lighted keys and they
never worked very well. The painted (or inked) letters rub off so fast,
and I've never mastered touch typing. Having only one hand to type with
doesn't help, either. And speaking of being old fashioned, do you know
it's almost impossible to get a keyboard with the big, L shaped Enter
key and the \ on the top row next to the Backspace key?

Getting older by the second,
Charlie

On 11-02-2012 7:52 AM, Mecki Foerthmann wrote:

Come on Charlie, texting is cool and it is easy.
If I want to talk to my son in France for instance, I send him a text
to switch on his PC so we can use Skype to actually talk and vice versa.
The workshop sending me a text that my bike is ready to be collected -
now how cool is that?
You're an American and you guys had letters on your phone keys for ages.
OK if you would have to remember that B is hitting 2 twice and S is
hitting 7 four times I could see your point, but it's really not that
difficult when the letters are actually displayed on the keys and you
soon get the hang of it.
I bought a phone with especially big keys so I can see the letters
because my eyes are not what they used to be. ;-)
And no, it's not one of those so called smart phones - it cost me just
15£ including bluetooth and camera - and no contract.

On 02/11/2012 12:07, Charlie Noah wrote:

I'm with you, Bill. My phone makes and receives calls - period. I
think you might be able to text on it (remember having to press 3
numbers to get 1 letter?) - but I don't use it. The best part - it
costs me $99/year! And no, I don't talk on it while driving.

Charlie

Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store
Home of Safety Net Shipping
http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com
Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232)


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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Clifton Oliver
So me a person who wants* to work in RPL, and I'll show you desperate.


On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote:

 http://simply.engcen.com/JobAdCareerJet.asp?JobID=1253361
 
 Really don't these people get actual... you know... specs?
 What did they do skip some words?
 
 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, 
 Jbase, Revelation AND RPL
 and I will show you a liar
 
 Clearly they meant something like either/or
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Wjhonson
I bet they get a lot of people who are thinking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPL_%28programming_language%29

instead of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realtime_Programming_Language

 
The latter article, by the way, could stand an expert hand to expand it.
I only used the language for four months.

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Clifton Oliver w...@oliver.com
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 8:50 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


So me a person who wants* to work in RPL, and I'll show you desperate.


On Nov 1, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote:

 http://simply.engcen.com/JobAdCareerJet.asp?JobID=1253361
 
 Really don't these people get actual... you know... specs?
 What did they do skip some words?
 
 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, 
Jbase, Revelation AND RPL
 and I will show you a liar
 
 Clearly they meant something like either/or
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Doug Averch
I have all of the relevant experience.  So what does that say about me?

Regards,
Doug
www.u2logic.com
Very experienced U2 programming staff
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Charlie Noah
I have experience with Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation and RPL 
(which was Microdata's very proc-like language). Actually, I have a few 
more, too. Gonna call me a liar, Will? :-)


Charlie

Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store
Home of Safety Net Shipping
http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com
Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232)

On 11-01-2012 10:46 AM, Wjhonson wrote:

http://simply.engcen.com/JobAdCareerJet.asp?JobID=1253361

Really don't these people get actual... you know... specs?
What did they do skip some words?

Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, 
Jbase, Revelation AND RPL
and I will show you a liar

Clearly they meant something like either/or
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Wjhonson
The history of RPL needs to be expanded.
Would they take someone with RPL 25 years old?
SMI kept adding to it.

WORK experience?  And it can be verified?
Or just at home dabbling experience?

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Charlie Noah cwn...@comcast.net
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 9:29 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


I have experience with Universe, Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation and RPL 
(which was Microdata's very proc-like language). Actually, I have a few 
more, too. Gonna call me a liar, Will? :-)

Charlie

Tiny Bear's Wild Bird Store
Home of Safety Net Shipping
http://www.TinyBearWildBirdStore.com
Toll Free: 1-855-TinyBear (855-846-9232)

On 11-01-2012 10:46 AM, Wjhonson wrote:
 http://simply.engcen.com/JobAdCareerJet.asp?JobID=1253361

 Really don't these people get actual... you know... specs?
 What did they do skip some words?

 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata, D3, 
Jbase, Revelation AND RPL
 and I will show you a liar

 Clearly they meant something like either/or
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 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users


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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Brian Leach
 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata,
D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar

Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin.

Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS...


Brian



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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Wjhonson
Usually if your experience is more than five years old, employers don't 
consider it.
By the way, I notice that all the people who responded saying they had it, 
aren't actually looking


 Can any of you actually write an input and update routine in RPL right now, 
without consulting a manual?


 

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk
To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 10:02 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata,
D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar

Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin.

Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS...


Brian



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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Robert Houben
I could pretend to do all of these, but frankly, I've never actually written 
production RPL code. I've also not written anything in about 2 years in 
Revelation and that was for Revelation G (really old) so I'm not sure it would 
count.   I think that the RPL is the killer. There are people who have done 
work on multiple MV platforms who can do all the rest, though if you're not 
talking Revelation G, then Revelation is different, and you have to have done 
more than just BASIC coding.

Of course, as noted, people with that depth of skill are not generally on the 
hunt...

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: November-01-12 10:06 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

Usually if your experience is more than five years old, employers don't 
consider it.
By the way, I notice that all the people who responded saying they had it, 
aren't actually looking


 Can any of you actually write an input and update routine in RPL right now, 
without consulting a manual?






-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk
To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 10:02 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata,
D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar

Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin.

Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS...


Brian



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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread David Wolverton
HA!  I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a  GREAT acronym!  

They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their
naming!

David W.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata,
D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar

Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin.

Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS...


Brian



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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Barry Rogen
So what does SMILE stand for ?


Barry Rogen
Senior Programmer/Analyst
PNY Technologies, Inc.
(973) 560-5327
bro...@pny.com


    We are continually faced with great opportunities brilliantly disguised 
as insoluble problems. 
 John W Gardner

 


-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton 
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:38 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

HA!  I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a  GREAT acronym!  

They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their naming!

David W.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, 
 Unidata,
D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar

Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin.

Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS...


Brian



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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Allen Elwood (TW)


well, it WAS the 60's. love in's, etc.

On 11/1/2012 10:37 AM, David Wolverton wrote:

HA!  I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a  GREAT acronym!

They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their
naming!

David W.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, Unidata,

D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar

Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin.

Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS...


Brian



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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread David Wolverton
System Marketing Inc. Language Extender for Generalized (Global?)
Information Retrieval Language System



-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Barry Rogen
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:01 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

So what does SMILE stand for ?


Barry Rogen
Senior Programmer/Analyst
PNY Technologies, Inc.
(973) 560-5327
bro...@pny.com



    We are continually faced with great opportunities brilliantly
disguised as insoluble problems. 
 John W Gardner

 


-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:38 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

HA!  I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a  GREAT acronym!  

They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their
naming!

David W.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, 
 Unidata,
D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar

Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin.

Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS...


Brian



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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Brian Leach
It was the precursor to RPL.
Just as GIRLS was the precursor to PICK.

SMI's Language Extender.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Barry Rogen
Sent: 01 November 2012 18:01
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

So what does SMILE stand for ?


Barry Rogen
Senior Programmer/Analyst
PNY Technologies, Inc.
(973) 560-5327
bro...@pny.com



    We are continually faced with great opportunities brilliantly
disguised as insoluble problems. 
 John W Gardner

 


-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:38 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

HA!  I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a  GREAT acronym!  

They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their
naming!

David W.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, 
 Unidata,
D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar

Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin.

Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS...


Brian



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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Barry Rogen
Thanks

Barry Rogen
Senior Programmer/Analyst
PNY Technologies, Inc.
(973) 560-5327
bro...@pny.com


    We are continually faced with great opportunities brilliantly disguised 
as insoluble problems. 
 John W Gardner

 



-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton 
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 2:08 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

System Marketing Inc. Language Extender for Generalized (Global?) Information 
Retrieval Language System



-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Barry Rogen
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:01 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

So what does SMILE stand for ?


Barry Rogen
Senior Programmer/Analyst
PNY Technologies, Inc.
(973) 560-5327
bro...@pny.com



    We are continually faced with great opportunities brilliantly disguised 
as insoluble problems. 
 John W Gardner

 


-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:38 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

HA!  I had to go look up SMILE for GIRLS -- what a  GREAT acronym!  

They were really were creative (and yes, maybe a bit sexist...) in their naming!

David W.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brian Leach
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:02 PM
To: 'U2 Users List'
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe, 
 Unidata,
D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar

Better keep my mouth shut, then, hadn't I ? grin.

Mind you I'm surprised they didn't add SMILE for GIRLS...


Brian



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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Tony Gravagno
Not sure where to jump in on this thread so I'll start at the top.

First, like Doug Averch, Charlie Noah, Brian Leach, and others here, I
actually do have experience with  all of the technologies AND
applications defined. So once again your commentary has over-reached
your limited understanding of the world around you.  Heck, if I wanted
to close my business and move back to Chicago, I might apply for the
position. But I don't. :)

Second, I believe this site is looking for someone with some
permutation of the described skills, not all of them. They say RPL/D3
are qualifications but U2, etc are a plus, meaning if someone has
skills with U2 they're probably trainable.  You were correct that they
meant either/or ... and they DID say a plus which means it's Not a
Requirement. In your eagerness to criticize you missed and/or ignored
key words - an oversight which would further disqualify you for the
position.

Third, RPL is still alive and well, used to run a Lot of large and
small shops and for new development. It's only supported now over D3,
so again the mention of U2, jBase, Rev, etc is an attempt to find
someone who can learn something new. (Rather difficult for some people
in this market, easy for others.) Would I start a new project with
RPL? No. Do I think it has a long-term future? No. But people have
been saying the same thing about Pick in general for a couple decades
now. Just remember that the only way some of you could get U2 into a
new prospect a few years ago was by slinging around the IBM moniker -
now that you don't have that anymore, U2 is as much an anomaly in the
mainstream as RPL is among Pick people. Be careful about throwing
rocks in this small glass house.

T


 From: Wjhonson 
 http://simply.engcen.com/JobAdCareerJet.asp?JobID=1253361
 
 Really don't these people get actual... you know... specs?
 What did they do skip some words?
 
 Show me a single person in the world who has all of : Universe,
 Unidata, D3, Jbase, Revelation AND RPL and I will show you a liar
 
 Clearly they meant something like either/or


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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Charles_Shaffer
I did a lot of RPL coding in the 80s. I remember when I left that job 
telling them that I would rather slide down a razor blade into a vat of 
alcohol than write one more line of RPL code. But that's just my opinion.

Charles Shaffer
Senior Analyst
NTN-Bower Corporation
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread John Lorentz
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Robert Houben robert.hou...@fwic.net wrote:
 I could pretend to do all of these, but frankly, I've never actually written 
 production RPL code. I've also not written anything in about 2 years in 
 Revelation and that was for Revelation G (really old) so I'm not sure it 
 would count.   I think that the RPL is the killer. There are people who have 
 done work on multiple MV platforms who can do all the rest, though if you're 
 not talking Revelation G, then Revelation is different, and you have to have 
 done more than just BASIC coding.

 Of course, as noted, people with that depth of skill are not generally on the 
 hunt...

Depends where you're located, I guess.

In the last dozen years here in Portland, I've been at two places that
dropped Universe for other platforms, and another that outsourced all
their system work to a company in California so that they could use my
position to instead hire a project manager who was a friend of the
department head.  (Oh, and one company that suddenly laid off 25% of
their employees one day.)

Since 1999, I've nearly _always_ been on the hunt...

John
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread David Jordan
A good CEO knows the first rule of employing.  First look at attitude, then 
capability and last experience.   When you write a resume, don't list 
experience, list your capability to pick up languages, ability to adapt and 
ability to understand the business.   It is also worth looking at how to get 
jobs a different way to the usually job markets.   Politicians spin bad news to 
good news, your competitors in the job market spin their lack of ability to win 
jobs.   Step back and look at your resume a different way.

Regards

David Jordan
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Wjhonson
You're not interviewing with the CEO for this job :)
You're lucky if you get past the junior level trainee in the recruiters 
office

Oh you have 20 years of experience in D3?  Well they also want to make sure you 
know Power Point

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: David Jordan da...@dacono.com.au
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 2:14 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


A good CEO knows the first rule of employing.  First look at attitude, then 
capability and last experience.   When you write a resume, don't list 
experience, list your capability to pick up languages, ability to adapt and 
ability to understand the business.   It is also worth looking at how to get 
jobs a different way to the usually job markets.   Politicians spin bad news to 
good news, your competitors in the job market spin their lack of ability to win 
jobs.   Step back and look at your resume a different way.

Regards

David Jordan
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Brian Leach
hmm and there was I thinking it was tiime for RPL.NET.

All it would need is a tortuously non obvious syntax for property and method 
setting and class instantiation and it would be job done..

just need another buffer type for handles..

C instantiate my form and return handle
IS ^1 MyForm ELSE \XNothing doing\END
C set title property to hello
MV ^1.Title hello
C get value of client width indirectly
MV %2 ClientWidth
MV %3 ^1.%2
C double it
F;%3;%3;+;?^1.%2
Cshow it
MX ^1.Show


Couldn't be more legible.

Brian
Sent from my iPad

On 1 Nov 2012, at 19:32, charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com wrote:

 I did a lot of RPL coding in the 80s. I remember when I left that job 
 telling them that I would rather slide down a razor blade into a vat of 
 alcohol than write one more line of RPL code. But that's just my opinion.
 
 Charles Shaffer
 Senior Analyst
 NTN-Bower Corporation
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread David Jordan
I didn't say it was easy, I am saying if you want to increase your opportunity 
change the dynamics.   You can curse and disparate the selection until the cows 
come home and it won't change a thing, you have to change the way you get the 
job interview.

Regards

David Jordan


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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Wjhonson
Where's my pitchfork?


 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk
To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Cc: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 3:22 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue


hmm and there was I thinking it was tiime for RPL.NET.

All it would need is a tortuously non obvious syntax for property and method 
setting and class instantiation and it would be job done..

just need another buffer type for handles..

C instantiate my form and return handle
IS ^1 MyForm ELSE \XNothing doing\END
C set title property to hello
MV ^1.Title hello
C get value of client width indirectly
MV %2 ClientWidth
MV %3 ^1.%2
C double it
F;%3;%3;+;?^1.%2
Cshow it
MX ^1.Show


Couldn't be more legible.

Brian
Sent from my iPad

On 1 Nov 2012, at 19:32, charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com wrote:

 I did a lot of RPL coding in the 80s. I remember when I left that job 
 telling them that I would rather slide down a razor blade into a vat of 
 alcohol than write one more line of RPL code. But that's just my opinion.
 
 Charles Shaffer
 Senior Analyst
 NTN-Bower Corporation
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Brian Leach
and I overlooked the obvious, using the ! buffer for IEnumerable.. its a winner.

Now, lambdas.. that might be a challenge.. they're already ugly enough.

B

Sent from my iPad

On 1 Nov 2012, at 22:25, Wjhonson wjhon...@aol.com wrote:

 Where's my pitchfork?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Brian Leach br...@brianleach.co.uk
 To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Cc: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
 Sent: Thu, Nov 1, 2012 3:22 pm
 Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
 
 hmm and there was I thinking it was tiime for RPL.NET.
 
 All it would need is a tortuously non obvious syntax for property and method 
 setting and class instantiation and it would be job done..
 
 just need another buffer type for handles..
 
 C instantiate my form and return handle
 IS ^1 MyForm ELSE \XNothing doing\END
 C set title property to hello
 MV ^1.Title hello
 C get value of client width indirectly
 MV %2 ClientWidth
 MV %3 ^1.%2
 C double it
 F;%3;%3;+;?^1.%2
 Cshow it
 MX ^1.Show
 
 
 Couldn't be more legible.
 
 Brian
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On 1 Nov 2012, at 19:32, charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com wrote:
 
 I did a lot of RPL coding in the 80s. I remember when I left that job 
 telling them that I would rather slide down a razor blade into a vat of 
 alcohol than write one more line of RPL code. But that's just my opinion.
 
 Charles Shaffer
 Senior Analyst
 NTN-Bower Corporation
 ___
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 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 ___
 U2-Users mailing list
 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
 http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
 
 
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 U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread John Lorentz
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:23 PM, David Jordan da...@dacono.com.au wrote:
 you have to change the way you get the job interview.

Only works if there are jobs available.

In Portland, the long list of what people are looking for in skills
when hiring does not include Pick (or other varieties).  And years
of experience in the field plus knowledge of xxx (say, PHP) does
not equal five years of experience in PHP specifically using tools x
and y in their equation, and you don't get past the initial
screening.

So I scramble to get what I can.  Right now, I'm working QA on a
contract and haven't had a chance for a permanent job for seven years
now.
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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Tony Gravagno
In the mainstream, it's generally understood that one must be in a
constant learning cycle, or skills get outdated in a matter of 6-18
months. So .NET people need to understand the difference between
WebForms and MVC, and adapt to generics, lambdas, and dynamic types.
Java people need to adjust to changes in frameworks, networking,
security, and XML parsing. PHP people need to understand competing
frameworks as well as balance their server-side skills with JavaScript
and related client frameworks. Any browser developer needs to shift
with browser changes, now HTML5, CSS3, etc. And some of us need to do
all of the above and then some.

But what changes in the Pick world? Not much. And how do a lot of Pick
people respond to that? By not feeling a need to do anything but
R83-compatible BASIC.

There are a lot  of jobs out there for developers of new UI's for
existing MV apps, but few people available who can satisfy the demand.
And yet Pick people have  had nearly two decades to improve their
skills. Every developer here should be qualified for the job
associated with this thread, because that ad looks pretty much like
any other ad in this industry these days.

I'm not trying to paint every Pickie as a dinosaur or a laggard - far
from it. I'm just saying there are too many people who still only know
BASIC while there have been any number of opportunities to move beyond
that. And there are any number of examples of people in the mainstream
who are in a constant mode of adaptation to prove that this is not
only possible but the established norm.

We are where we are in the Pick industry because Pick people generally
become complacent in the belief that they are already using the best
database in the world, so they don't need to learn anything else.
That's just wrong at so many levels. That cripples the industry,
making it more difficult for VARs to sell their software and for the
DBMS providers to continue investing in this niche market.

And let's face it, the additional problem that many here face is that
the developer base is now aging, and it's difficult to start from
scratch and jump on Mr Toad's Wild Technology Ride. We just can't do
that anymore - myself included. What this means is that many people
need to recognize their own limitations, and transition their approach
to finding employment and consulting gigs. Position as a manager
rather than as a programmer. Profile your skills as a problem solver
who can get qualified people to write code, rather than competing with
a million people who can write code but can't solve real world
business problems. Sell your understanding of business rules, because
this is an area where you excel compared to all of those people who
can write code but have no idea what to write.

T


 From: John Lorentz 
 
David Jordan wrote:
  you have to change the way you get the job interview.
 
 Only works if there are jobs available.
 
 In Portland, the long list of what people are looking for in skills
when
 hiring does not include Pick (or other varieties).  And years of
 experience in the field plus knowledge of xxx (say, PHP) does
not
 equal five years of experience in PHP specifically using tools x
and y
 in their equation, and you don't get past the initial screening.
 
 So I scramble to get what I can.  Right now, I'm working QA on a
 contract and haven't had a chance for a permanent job for seven
years
 now.

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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Don Robinson
Tony,

As usual, you make some good points, however, I have a little different 
viewpoint.
For the past 20 years I have worked for several mom and pop companies. These 
companies have refused to provide training for their employees including me and 
are very slow to adopt new developments in this business.

I get reasons like, for what I'm paying you, you should already know ever 
thing, when so and so got back from training, they told me 'I know enough to 
get started, but I'm no expert', so no more training. (I guess the boss thinks 
a few days in class make you an expert!), I'll send you when we get a customer 
to buy the xyz product and several more I can't remember at the moment.

Once, I was charged with supporting a customer with a new product and I was 
allowed to attend the same 3 day FREE training as the customer!! The customer 
had a couple of programmers that dug into it and within a couple of DAYS they 
knew more about it than I did, but I was still supposed to act like I knew what 
I was doing! Very frustrating. 

Any kind of Pick related training is always somewhere else and when the 
employer won't pay for you to go, what do you do?

I understand it costs a lot but not being properly trained costs too.

It seems a lot of employers want someone with specific experience instead of 
looking at your potential and ambition.


Regards,

Don Robinson


From: Tony Gravagno 3xk547...@sneakemail.com
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org 
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue
 
In the mainstream, it's generally understood that one must be in a
constant learning cycle, or skills get outdated in a matter of 6-18
months. So .NET people need to understand the difference between
WebForms and MVC, and adapt to generics, lambdas, and dynamic types.
Java people need to adjust to changes in frameworks, networking,
security, and XML parsing. PHP people need to understand competing
frameworks as well as balance their server-side skills with JavaScript
and related client frameworks. Any browser developer needs to shift
with browser changes, now HTML5, CSS3, etc. And some of us need to do
all of the above and then some.

But what changes in the Pick world? Not much. And how do a lot of Pick
people respond to that? By not feeling a need to do anything but
R83-compatible BASIC.

There are a lot  of jobs out there for developers of new UI's for
existing MV apps, but few people available who can satisfy the demand.
And yet Pick people have  had nearly two decades to improve their
skills. Every developer here should be qualified for the job
associated with this thread, because that ad looks pretty much like
any other ad in this industry these days.

I'm not trying to paint every Pickie as a dinosaur or a laggard - far
from it. I'm just saying there are too many people who still only know
BASIC while there have been any number of opportunities to move beyond
that. And there are any number of examples of people in the mainstream
who are in a constant mode of adaptation to prove that this is not
only possible but the established norm.

We are where we are in the Pick industry because Pick people generally
become complacent in the belief that they are already using the best
database in the world, so they don't need to learn anything else.
That's just wrong at so many levels. That cripples the industry,
making it more difficult for VARs to sell their software and for the
DBMS providers to continue investing in this niche market.

And let's face it, the additional problem that many here face is that
the developer base is now aging, and it's difficult to start from
scratch and jump on Mr Toad's Wild Technology Ride. We just can't do
that anymore - myself included. What this means is that many people
need to recognize their own limitations, and transition their approach
to finding employment and consulting gigs. Position as a manager
rather than as a programmer. Profile your skills as a problem solver
who can get qualified people to write code, rather than competing with
a million people who can write code but can't solve real world
business problems. Sell your understanding of business rules, because
this is an area where you excel compared to all of those people who
can write code but have no idea what to write.

T


 From: John Lorentz 
 
David Jordan wrote:
  you have to change the way you get the job interview.
 
 Only works if there are jobs available.
 
 In Portland, the long list of what people are looking for in skills
when
 hiring does not include Pick (or other varieties).  And years of
 experience in the field plus knowledge of xxx (say, PHP) does
not
 equal five years of experience in PHP specifically using tools x
and y
 in their equation, and you don't get past the initial screening.
 
 So I scramble to get what I can.  Right now, I'm working QA on a
 contract and haven't had a chance for a permanent job for seven
years
 now

Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Bill Haskett
Kind of reminds me of my phone.  It's gotten so many functions, that 
barely work, now I can't even make a simple phone call.  So I ditched my 
Android and went to a pay-as-you-go simple phone.  Now I can receive and 
make calls without any problems.  Who'd have thought?  :-)


Bill

P.S.  Now I'm waiting for the new Thinkpad X1 to get a better docking 
station and offload my business email to the cloud, where I can securely 
store and access 10Gb of archived email.  Then I'll just walk around 
with a phone that works and an ultra-thin ultra-fast workstation I can 
open up and access the internet in a few seconds, to get whatever I need 
(and be able to read it and interface by typing 70 wpm).  Ahhh...



- Original Message -
*From:* 3xk547...@sneakemail.com
*To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
*Date:* 11/1/2012 4:25 PM
*Subject:* Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

In the mainstream, it's generally understood that one must be in a
constant learning cycle, or skills get outdated in a matter of 6-18
months. So .NET people need to understand the difference between
WebForms and MVC, and adapt to generics, lambdas, and dynamic types.
Java people need to adjust to changes in frameworks, networking,
security, and XML parsing. PHP people need to understand competing
frameworks as well as balance their server-side skills with JavaScript
and related client frameworks. Any browser developer needs to shift
with browser changes, now HTML5, CSS3, etc. And some of us need to do
all of the above and then some.

But what changes in the Pick world? Not much. And how do a lot of Pick
people respond to that? By not feeling a need to do anything but
R83-compatible BASIC.

There are a lot  of jobs out there for developers of new UI's for
existing MV apps, but few people available who can satisfy the demand.
And yet Pick people have  had nearly two decades to improve their
skills. Every developer here should be qualified for the job
associated with this thread, because that ad looks pretty much like
any other ad in this industry these days.

I'm not trying to paint every Pickie as a dinosaur or a laggard - far
from it. I'm just saying there are too many people who still only know
BASIC while there have been any number of opportunities to move beyond
that. And there are any number of examples of people in the mainstream
who are in a constant mode of adaptation to prove that this is not
only possible but the established norm.

We are where we are in the Pick industry because Pick people generally
become complacent in the belief that they are already using the best
database in the world, so they don't need to learn anything else.
That's just wrong at so many levels. That cripples the industry,
making it more difficult for VARs to sell their software and for the
DBMS providers to continue investing in this niche market.

And let's face it, the additional problem that many here face is that
the developer base is now aging, and it's difficult to start from
scratch and jump on Mr Toad's Wild Technology Ride. We just can't do
that anymore - myself included. What this means is that many people
need to recognize their own limitations, and transition their approach
to finding employment and consulting gigs. Position as a manager
rather than as a programmer. Profile your skills as a problem solver
who can get qualified people to write code, rather than competing with
a million people who can write code but can't solve real world
business problems. Sell your understanding of business rules, because
this is an area where you excel compared to all of those people who
can write code but have no idea what to write.

T



From: John Lorentz

David Jordan wrote:

you have to change the way you get the job interview.

Only works if there are jobs available.

In Portland, the long list of what people are looking for in skills

when

hiring does not include Pick (or other varieties).  And years of
experience in the field plus knowledge of xxx (say, PHP) does

not

equal five years of experience in PHP specifically using tools x

and y

in their equation, and you don't get past the initial screening.

So I scramble to get what I can.  Right now, I'm working QA on a
contract and haven't had a chance for a permanent job for seven

years

now.

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Re: [U2] Another job ad written by people who have no clue

2012-11-01 Thread Kevin King
TonyG wrote:

*Profile your skills as a problem solver who can get qualified people to
write code, rather than competing with a million people who can write code
but can't solve real world business problems. Sell your understanding of
business rules, because this is an area where you excel compared to all of
those people who can write code but have no idea what to write.*

I know it's difficult to find a position in this economy but from the
employer side I can tell you it's been difficult to find people who even
acknowledge that the world of technology reaches beyond their current
skillset.  One of the questions I ask in every interview is what have you
learned and applied recently? and yet more times than not I get blank
stares instead of a real answer.  Well guess what?  Nobody is going to pay
you to get trained, but do it anyway.  There are copious resources
available for free or low cost to get started, and once you get started
you'll find more stuff to learn with less to invest.  Get creative.  That's
what we've been doing for our employers for years, so why not do it for
yourself?  Sure, you're tired, there's no time to learn, yada, yada.  Do it
anyway.  Learn or burn.

Not that anyone cares, but I have a deal with myself that has served me
well for decades.  Commit to yourself that any investment in your yourself
must come with a payout of a factor of the investment.  For me, that factor
is 100x.  In other words, if I spend $50 on a book I commit to myself to
learn enough from that book to earn $5K.  If I spend an hour of time
learning something, then I commit to finding 100 hours of opportunity to
apply what I have learned.  Certainly through the years there've been a few
duds, but more often than not this has worked splendidly.  The key to the
whole deal is in committing to execute the payout.  If you can't be counted
on to pay yourself back for an investment in yourself, why would an
employer want to make a similar commitment?

I know, I know... preaching to the choir.  Or am I?
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