[Bug 124480] Re: forbidden characters is filenames are allowed
From ntfs-3g upstream: this bug report is invalid. NTFS has several file namespaces: DOS, WIN32, POSIX. Linux, as a POSIX OS, always creates files in the POSIX namespace. Characters in the file name can be anything except '/' and '\0'. These files are accessible via the WIN API on Windows only if they don't have forbidden characters. To handle these files on Windows, the same way as on Linux, one needs to install the Windows Services for Unix (SFU) freely available Microsoft package. In sort, everything behaves as it was designed. No problem on Linux and all the files are accessible if SFU is installed on Windows. If a non-posix file namespace handling is desirable on Linux then I suggest exporting the NTFS volume via Samba which should have support for restricting the file namespace to the WIN32 or DOS one. Thank you for the report, the question will be added to the ntfs-3g support page. -- forbidden characters is filenames are allowed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/124480 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 124480] Re: forbidden characters is filenames are allowed
I've seen this on the ntfs-3g page, but I don't understand why ntfs can be accessed in a POISIX way, since it is a filesystem designed for windows. What are the advanteges? (since people have always used the vfat filesystem to share files, which is non POSIX at least by default?). This is an unexpected change! And finally what are the disadvantages of using the filesystem in the WIN way? On the other hand I'm glad to discover that there is a fix for windows. BUT this should *really* be told to the user who uses ntfs-3g, especially now that there is the spec to add it by default. Doesn't using samba slow down the acces? I've seen lots of apps that, before accessing the file, copy it to the local cache, which is a very expensive operation for big files Finally, I think that the user should have the possibility to choose (maybe through ntfs-config ?) the first time he uses this driver. He should be told that using it in the POSIX way, files will be case sensitive, some characters such as : ? \ and others that previously were not allowed on the filesystem now are allowed, and that they have to download and install BWindows Services for Unix/B And he should be told that if he wants to access the filesystem in the standard way, there are these restrictions in the filename, and the case will be non sensitive -- forbidden characters is filenames are allowed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/124480 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 124480] Re: forbidden characters is filenames are allowed
Which component of Windows Services for Unix will enable POSIX read/write? I would like to install only the needed files to not waster space and memory -- forbidden characters is filenames are allowed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/124480 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 124480] Re: forbidden characters is filenames are allowed
On Sat, 7 Jul 2007, Nicolò Chieffo wrote: I've seen this on the ntfs-3g page, but I don't understand why ntfs can be accessed in a POISIX way, since it is a filesystem designed for windows. No, you're misunderstanding the issues here. NTFS is designed to be POSIX: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/windows2000serv/reskit/core/fncc_fil_koez.mspx?mfr=true Forbidden characters and case sensitivity is perfectly legal on NTFS. Your wiki update for WriteSupportForNTFS is misleading. It suggests ntfs-3g doesn't use NTFS the correct, legal way which is not true. In fact, Windows restricts access to these files for legacy reason, namely VFAT can't support these. What are the advanteges? POSIX. You can use it on any other POSIX OS for interoperability. This is why NTFS was designed to be POSIX. And indeed, ntfs-3g runs fine on Linux, OS X, FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc. (since people have always used the vfat filesystem to share files, which is non POSIX at least by default?). VFAT isn't POSIX at all. NTFS intentionally solved this problem, so one can use it in its full capacity. This is an unexpected change! No, it's not. Microsoft intentionally made NTFS POISX. There are governmental and industrial regulations which requires POSIX for certain solutions and without POSIX compliance Microsoft couldn't have made important business deals. And finally what are the disadvantages of using the filesystem in the WIN way? Quite many things would break and users would be confused why things don't work. The question is what is better? Breaking many Linux and other POSIX OSes applications or fix Windows where the fix is already available? On the other hand I'm glad to discover that there is a fix for windows. BUT this should *really* be told to the user who uses ntfs-3g, especially now that there is the spec to add it by default. This is Microsoft's job. It's their problem, they restrict users, they need to solve it. Finally, I think that the user should have the possibility to choose (maybe through ntfs-config ?) the first time he uses this driver. Then even more people would be confused why so many programs wouldn't work on Linux due to these restrictions. Please note that you can't really refer to VFAT because they are quite different file systems and even Microsoft stopped supporting it as the main file system, due to very good reasons. He should be told that using it in the POSIX way, files will be case sensitive, some characters such as : ? \ and others that previously were not allowed on the filesystem now are allowed, and that they have to download and install BWindows Services for Unix/B And he should be told that if he wants to access the filesystem in the standard way, there are these restrictions in the filename, and the case will be non sensitive Microsoft always toldl these to the Windows users. I can't see any new or surprising here. Everybody is keep learning, that's all. -- forbidden characters is filenames are allowed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/124480 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 124480] Re: forbidden characters is filenames are allowed
Well in my opinion you are talking as a very very advanced user, and I'm instead trying to be near to a normal user which dual boots in windows and wants his files available to both windows and ubuntu. (this is what the spec is aimed for, read Use Cases) I understand that windows forbidden characters is legal in the NTFS filesystem at all. But they are not legal in a normal windows installation, and a normal user does not know what's happening, since these files (without WinSerForUnix, and the normal user does not even know that this software exists and what it is for) cannot be read. I updated my wiki comment to be less misleading, but I think this is still a warning that cannot be ignored You're talking as most applications will not work if the filesystem is not POSIX. I instead think that the problem is different and we could try to answer together to these questions to have a better idea of the most frequent situation: 1) which partition is normally ntfs? My answer: the partition where windows resides and maybe another partition in which documents, videos, music, downloads are stored. For sure not / or $HOME... 2) which applications are normally used over a ntfs partition? My answer: openoffice, gedit, totem, nautilus, rhythmbox, firefox (vim, cat, less, diff, , for more advanced users). I cannot think of other apps now. what would not work in these applications if the filesystem is not POSIX? Tell me if I forgot something. Maybe it's not a Microsoft problem... Since we're using their filesystem, we should do the best to not confuse the normal user I told you it was an unexpected change and I was using vfat as a reference because (I think) most normal users were using vfat to exchange files, and now that ntfs3g is out will for sure switch to this. But (I think) they expect it works the same way as vfat, because in windows there is no difference, and because they know they are using a windows filesystem which has restrictions in windows default installation. If it behaves differently they might face lots of problems and most users will not understand which is the problem. My opinion is that there will be more people confused because files are not read by windows than the number of people confused because some apps don't work (since I cannot really think of an application that does not work). At finally, Microsoft doesn't tell normal users that the filesystem restrictions are only for legacy, and that cannot be removed. The user has to discover this by itself. (this was my case, for example) Please tell me what you think of my opinions -- forbidden characters is filenames are allowed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/124480 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 124480] Re: forbidden characters is filenames are allowed
** Changed in: ntfs-3g (Ubuntu) Importance: Undecided = Medium Status: New = Confirmed -- forbidden characters is filenames are allowed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/124480 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
