Ryan Waldroop wrote:
@ Felipe:
Actually, with further testing, my laptop appears to be fixed while on AC
power, but it's still cycling a lot on battery. The wiki page linked in the
opening bug post has a three step process to check if everything is fixed
and change the values if you like.
Why is acpi-support still used in Intrepid? Shouldn't Ubuntu use pm-
utils only by now?
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Przemysław Kulczycki wrote:
Why is acpi-support still used in Intrepid? Shouldn't Ubuntu use pm-
utils only by now?
The acpi-support package has two functions. One is suspend, the other is
to translate hardware specific events into generic ones (such as custom
keys). I'm considering a
I just (finally) upgraded to Intrepid on my IBM T41 laptop. I went like 10
minutes without any LOAD_CYCLE_COUNT increases, and thought this had
actually been fixed. Then I checked again 5 minutes later and it jumped up
by 17. Now I'm looking at a steady 3-4 load cycles per minute on battery,
On Sat, 2008-10-04 at 15:01 +, Ryan Waldroop wrote:
I just (finally) upgraded to Intrepid on my IBM T41 laptop. I went like 10
minutes without any LOAD_CYCLE_COUNT increases, and thought this had
actually been fixed. Then I checked again 5 minutes later and it jumped up
by 17. Now I'm
I am now testing intrepid and even tough I don't have deadlocks, the bug
is there, load cycles increase. Was this a bug also in previous
releases? Is it also a bug in windows?
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I definitely experienced this bug with my laptop in Gutsy. Some people may
have had this problem in Feisty as well.
The bug is also *technically* present in Windows...except Windows is too
busy constantly polling the hard disk to let it idle even for a second.
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 4:24 AM,
The workaround on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement plus the
correction of the FOR statement in power.sh mentioned here
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/89269
finally works here :D
No cycles for 1h now!
Using Ubuntu 8.04.1 on a T42 with Hitachi HDD
--
High
Are we supposed to be looking at load cycle count or start/stop count?
My load cycles are about 200 per hour lately, but
http://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Known_issues says
Start_Stop_Count, which I also have.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Yes, it IS pesent in Windows too. Just checked it in Vista SP1, and not
only with my ears, but also with smartmontools and hdparm for Windows.
Vista does the same as Ubuntu: nothing... it just let's the hdd manage
itself. I fixed it in Linux with setting hdparm to 254 while on AC mode
and 128
I'm highly in favor of the blacklist approach used by Novell/openSUSE as
well. It tracks different laptop/hard disk combinations and knows
exactly which apm value (254/255) fixes the problem for each entry. The
storage-fixup script was written and is maintained by kernel developer
Tejun Heo by the
Il giorno mer, 20/08/2008 alle 03.48 +, Endolith ha scritto:
If your product is destroying users' hardware, this should be a TOP
priority for fixing. If you're not going to fix it, the very least
you
could do is include a script that checks for inordinate numbers of
load
cycles, warns
So 56 load cycles per hour would be a bad number?
Model Family: Hitachi Travelstar 7K100
Device Model: Hitachi HTS721010G9AT00
Dell Inspiron 8600
Ubuntu 8.04
In November, I was told by Ubuntu Forum staff that I didn't have to
worry about this, since laptop mode is disabled by default and
Hi,
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement has been updated to respect the fixes
for intrepid (ubuntu 8.10).
You currently still need to follow the steps mentioned there for hardy
(ubuntu 8.04) installs.
(I guess Vincenzo Ciancia who reported his issues where fixed with
recent hardy updates
No, because laptop-mode is still disabled by default. If you experience
these problems (big note: this is currently for intrepid only!) you can
try the following:
Edit /etc/default/acpi-support: ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true
Edit /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-mode.conf: BATT_HD_POWERMGMT=number and
Alexey,
these bugs was resolved, then this bug too, no?
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I followed instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement
I had been using a new laptop for few days:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# smartctl -a /dev/sda -d ata
...
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 099 099 000Old_age Always
- 16266
the solution?
= https://launchpad.net/~snaury/+archive (acpi-support - 0.110~df1)
one Alexey Borzenkov's patch
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paulo_alex, no, that's not the solution (all it does is lets other
packages do their jobs). For first steps to solution see bug 250935 and
bug 250938.
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I just got a new Dell laptop and I'm getting an average of 31 clicks per
hour. Load_Cycle_Count / Power_On_Hours = 1706 / 55.
I just went to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement to try to fix
this but the How to get disks idleing correctly (without excessive load
cycling) part is everything
I see that Suse and Debian has released a fix for this, cant we use the
same fix?
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** Description changed:
This is not a support forum. Please do not use it as such (even though
it has been used as such already).
You can scan through the bug for links to the Ubuntu forums where many,
many different questions have been asked, answered, and re-answered.
- The
I have not followed the whole thread. Right after installing hardy, I
was about to send my laptop to repair because I was experiencing random
deadlocks with high temperature. Then after some upgrade the problem
vanished and indeed I had the symptoms of this bug.
So the question is:
has this bug
The problem is that this bug was definitely present in Gutsy, and possibly
Feisty. So telling someone not to upgrade won't necessarily help them. If
you are providing Tech Support for someone, I would say it is safe to
upgrade to Hardy, but you need to go ahead and check their load/unload
cycles
Il giorno lun, 07/07/2008 alle 12.46 +, Ryan Waldroop ha scritto:
if necessary, apply the
fixes posted here.
Ok, thank you for the clarification. And the fact that I saw this fixed
by an upgrade on a laptop of my own does mean that some measures have
already been taken?
--
High frequency
A howto get disks idleing correctly (without excessive load cycling) has been
added to:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagement
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** Description changed:
This is not a support forum. Please do not use it as such (even though
it has been used as such already).
You can scan through the bug for links to the Ubuntu forums where many,
many different questions have been asked, answered, and re-answered.
The
I have a Clevo laptop with a Samsung Harddisk. Ubuntu 8.04. I'm totally
confused with this issue. My system have hdparm -B 254 and no Load_Cycle_Count,
but my 'Load_Retry_Count' is constantly increasing. The clicks is loud, much
louder than the clicks from Load_Cycle_Count increase. Sometimes
Hi pelm,
I had an exactly the same issue with my Samsung drive, I suspect this
could be happening because of overheating or some other hardware problem
causing superclicks if heads are not parked for more than a minute or
so. I'm tired of repeating that disabling power management is *not* a
I can not believe that it is normal for a basic, non-enterprise disk to
overheat, not even when it is permanently used.
If disabling power management causes any other issue than decreased battery
life by max. 5%, then this is obviously some disk/firmware related bug.
This is why I guess the
Gabor CZIGOLA wrote:
I can not believe that it is normal for a basic, non-enterprise disk to
overheat, not even when it is permanently used.
If disabling power management causes any other issue than decreased battery
life by max. 5%, then this is obviously some disk/firmware related bug.
Is fully disabling Power Manager really needed? Wouldn't it cause some
problems related with overheat or short battery lifetime?
Seems that my hardrive is now using 128 value:
# hdparm -I /dev/sda | grep Advanced
Advanced power management level: 128
*Advanced Power
Suse ships some fix now (storage-fixup and storage-fixup.conf at the bottom of
http://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=386555 )
They use a blacklist approach for disabling APM on affected drives, which seems
reasonable.
The blacklist seems to be maintained by someone at [EMAIL PROTECTED] (see
** Changed in: suse
Status: Incomplete = Fix Released
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Actually, the only way to stop the problem on my laptop (airis N1212) is
disable the acpi at boot (acpi=off in grub).
No problem with ac, only with battery.
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** Changed in: suse
Status: In Progress = Incomplete
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Interesting! Setting ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true really helps, but not after
start. On my ACER Extensa 5210 it helps after I unplug and plug back the
AC cord. So just after the start (if laptop started on AC) it is just as
before, but if you unplug the AC cord - the power management is beeing
set to 1
I have tried everything! I can NOT stop the problem by applying hdparm
-B 255 (or 254) myself! What else is there to try? :( LoadCycleCount is
100+!
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With Hardy Heron on a Dell Vostro 1400, Load_Cycle_Count was increasing
2-5 times per minute with AC and battery. Setting
ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE=true in /etc/default/acpi-support fixed that problem.
/proc/sys/vm/laptop_mode was set to 2 prior to that. With the change,
among other things the APM level
Just checked my ACER Extensa 5210, I bought it 3 months ago (laptop run mostly
on AC power)
Load_Cycle_Count 68629
Power_On_Hours 707
Seems like I have 97 cycles/hour - it seems too much for me, anyway I use
thunderbird to check my email every 3 minutes, but it is still strange to have
97
I am also concerned about the cooler, it turns on every minute for 30
seconds then stops, this happens even if laptop is totally idle. Any
ideas? Is it normal?
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I suggest you check:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=386555
Seems that they are working on a solution
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I have bought a new laptop and I have installed both ubuntu and fedora
core 9. On ubuntu I immediately installed the fix ( the one starting by
if on power; then..) but on fedora I did not. I noticed a lots of
«clicks» using fedora and the number of head parkings increased. Is
Fedora Core affected
The same fix is the pm-utils fix (hardy), then yes you can use the same
files.
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Mark Baas wrote:
The same fix is the pm-utils fix (hardy), then yes you can use the same
files.
Begging your pardon I didn't not understand. On ubuntu I use this fix:
#!/bin/bash
if on_ac_power; then
# on AC so don't do any head parking
hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda # you might need 255 or a
Confirmed on HP Pavilion DV6614tx running Hardy.
I had a load cycle count of 114,000 in 6 months at an average of 93 per
hour. The workaround posted above resolved the problem.
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Status: Incomplete = In Progress
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I personally think the solution should be simple. First some parameters
in laptop-mode need splitting into LM_AC_ and LM_BAT_ (like
LM_READAHEAD), next someone should invent sane defaults that actually
work for a default installation. Next installer should autodetect or ask
(during installation)
Also, more on laptop-mode. In config file comments I've seen that it is
disabled by default (and it seems devs tried to make it not so obvious
how to really enable it), because it causes odd hangs on some computers.
What sort of hangs are we dealing with? If this was about hangs when
watching a
Alexey Borzenkov wrote:
Also, more on laptop-mode. In config file comments I've seen that it is
disabled by default (and it seems devs tried to make it not so obvious
how to really enable it), because it causes odd hangs on some computers.
What sort of hangs are we dealing with? If this was
This problem is still there under ubuntu Hardy 8.04 (LTS... but with present
settings, my HD will not last 3 years!).
I've a brand new HDD, a WD scorpio 320Gb. Hardy hdparm -B defaults to 128 even
on AC power, leading this drive to have heads parked/unparked every minutes.
60 minutes
Just to (re?)state the obvious:
A standard Linux kernel flushes to disk every 5 seconds. I don't know
what anyone expects their disk to do to save power between those
flushes, but it doesn't. When the drive manufacturer sets default
settings it is under the assumption the OS is not going to force
For me, using a non-broken disk, the heads never park - I'm not using
laptop-mode. So there seems to be a problem with the broken disks that
makes them park without Linux telling them to do so, and even prevents
Linux from avoiding spinning down. Maybe Ubuntu should be able to let
the HD sleep for
I find it strange that so many people say there is no possible
workaround for their system. If you can stop the problem by applying
hdparm -B 255 (or 254) yourself, then the only remaining problem is to
make sure that is always applied (particularly after a suspend). If
that is the problem, then
Milo: it just means your disks default settings do not trigger within
the 5 seconds of the forced flush. This is purely coincidental and
nothing to do with broken disks.
It is also the reason so many people see so many different results,
depending on your drive's settings you may never see it, or
Dennis, I agree with what you're saying; I'm just trying to make sure
everyone knows that the problem with not restoring the setting after
suspend is described in bug 89269, which also includes a workaround.
That bug needs to be reopened or a new bug opened to provide an official
fix.
--
High
I opened bug 229693 to describe the remaining unsolved problem in bug
89269. I believe a proper fix here would solve this problem for most
users (as long as they set the ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE flag in /etc/default
/acpi-support).
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may
What I have been saying all along Ubuntu does not work for laptops
sorry to say Microsoft is better for laptops, on my laptop now using
Windows XP the drive is fine ,
Power management is sticky and sore issue with Ubuntu and if they want
to take a bigger bite out of Microsoft this issue has to
my laptop is running extremely well with Ubuntu after some configuration
(and a lot of learning on my part). but this isn't a windows vs linux
thread.
for people without heat problems, the ugly fixes for /etc/pm/*.d/ or
/etc/acpi/*.d/ will work just fine. However, for people who have heat
revelationman: did you try the ugly fix proposed above? It should be doing
exactly what Windows currently does. ;-)
[code]
#! /bin/sh
while [ 1 ]; do
touch /tmp/foobar.tmp
sync
sleep 3
done
[/code]
Ubuntu is not at fault here and I've been using it on many laptops
without trouble.
hi !
That i don't not understand it's why you don't try to detect this
problem automatically and let inform the user via notification that the
firmware of the disk is defect and propose him to make a dirty
workaround.
it is just few lines of code to add to the notification system (checking that
Novell/SUSE Bugzilla #338230 is marked as a duplicate of this new one.
See comments for look at the workaround they are working on.
** Changed in: suse
Bugwatch: Novell/SUSE Bugzilla #338230 = Novell/SUSE Bugzilla #386555
Status: In Progress = Unknown
--
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** Changed in: suse
Status: Unknown = Incomplete
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Akshay Srinivasan wrote:
Brian :-
About your fix :- Creating a new file , didn't really do any disk
operation - atleast not immediately - so this means laptop-mode is
actually working.
Paradoxically , firefox some how does instantaneous write operations-
laptop-mode fails to work
This is *really* an ugly fix.
Åskar, have you tried this?
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4897802postcount=842
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Sad reality is that Laptops and Ubuntu do not mix at this moment I have
since switch back to Windows XP and the clicking noises are gone, I
still run Ubuntu on my desktop that is fine no issue's . All laptops
must have power management that is the issue here with Ubuntu .
I am sorry but I do not
A note of observation. After I switched back to Windows XP I found that
Windows indeed didn't let my drive to spin down or park heads, however
all this came at the same price I had in Linux, i.e. frequent
superclicks and Load_Retry_Count increasing. So the problem is not with
Linux or Ubuntu at
On Sun, 2008-05-04 at 11:33 +, Åskar wrote:
No fix mentioned here works for me..my harddrive is still slowly dying
with about 5 loadcycle increased every 10 seconds!
If *no* fix works for you, and your count is increasing that quickly,
use this script (this really *is* a dirty fix).
[code]
Brian :-
About your fix :- Creating a new file , didn't really do any disk
operation - atleast not immediately - so this means laptop-mode is
actually working.
Paradoxically , firefox some how does instantaneous write operations-
laptop-mode fails to work here. Is there anyway one can
Here is the solution for Hardy:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4886869posted=1#post4886869
(also read my comment there in the end)
** Changed in: dell
Status: New = Confirmed
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Did anyone bother trying my script?
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Thanks ethanay, I had exactly the same two problems as you!
Personnally I've put hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda even in battery mode because this
click sound is driving me crazy. My HD temperature looks OK (42°C).
I'm not sure the problem is 100% solved thus, because I still hear a
much fainter click
** Also affects: dell
Importance: Undecided
Status: New
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No fix mentioned here works for me..my harddrive is still slowly dying
with about 5 loadcycle increased every 10 seconds!
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Confirming (finally!) that my inability to apply any of the various ugly
fixes was due to a second bug #89269. Valentin Neacsu's posted
workaround has enabled persistent safe hdparm rules for me in Hardy.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
Some more info on the issue. I recently bought a new Samsung HM160HI and
started having the issue with Load_Cycle_Count. I tried the solution
with setting hdparm -B 255, but what I found is that my drive is already
in that mode after reboot. So after hdparm -B 254 Load_Cycle_Count
stopped
Oh my god, it's so stupid. It turned out that my issue was hddtemp
running in daemon mode. Because it uses smart (sic!) to query drive
temperature, and update interval is hard-coded to 60 seconds, it was
waking my drive every 60 seconds! As soon as I disabled it, my problems
seem to go away. The
Why not using the laptop-mode which is installed per default but only
has to be enabled? It has an option for setting advanced power
management and if it is added to STOP_SERVICES in /etc/default/acpi-
support it sets APM even after suspend resume.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some
I finished writing a simple Shell script for monitoring the disk-head
activity.Once started , it beeps if the number of parks exceed a preset
limit , within the given interval of time.You need to have beep
installed for it to work.
P.S : - Running smartctl usually brings the disk out of idle ,
I've tried all the above, to no avail. Even with laptop mode enabled,
and set to execute on resume (laptop_mode is enabled after resume), apm
= 128 and I have to change the setting manually. I'm beginning to think
this might actually be another bug, unless someone has some suggestions
about
I would recommend taking a look at bug 89269. The real problem, at
least for me, is that the hdparm settings that are supposed to take
place in power.sh when you have LAPTOP_MODE_ENABLED actually only take
place when you change power sources, not when you resume from a suspend.
See Valentin
Hi, all.
As I wrote here before (look above), i've tried many things and solutions. Now
my HDD working fine, no Load_Cycle clicking, no hdd overheat.
It works normal for 5 months already.
Look what I've done
sudo aptitude purge acpid
sudo aptitude purge acpi-suport
I thought if this acpi
This is most definitely a bug in the hard drive firmware settings in
how quickly it parks the head after being idle. It affects MacOS X and
Windows users along with Linux users in general not just Ubuntu. I have
found posts on other sites referencing the problems for their users as
well. The only
I went back to Ubuntu after speaking to the Seagate Tech I have a 5 year
warranty and I have another drive (Seagate) with a 5 year warranty.
I personally cannot stand Vista to me it is Windows ME all over again it is
bloated and with over 50 million lines of code ( so that say) it does not
** Description changed:
This is not a support forum. Please do not use it as such (even though
it has been used as such already).
You can scan through the bug for links to the Ubuntu forums where many,
many different questions have been asked, answered, and re-answered.
The
Nothing seems to be working in hardy where it worked in gutsy.
so i am still entering hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda manually after each resume
from suspend or hibernate.
There are limitations to the /etc/pm/xx/disk solution. If I have time,
I'll spend some of it to improve it.
..erh, that is,
Good info!
It shouldn't be too difficult to include a script that monitors the
system for the bug, to be run by cron, then notifies the user, providing
an option to automatically disable power management on the disk if so.
I could do that. Is there a way I could get it published, if I did make
Brian Visel:
Is there a way I could get it published, if I did make such a script?
Add an attachment to this bug report so the devs could decide?
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Brian Visel wrote:
Good info!
It shouldn't be too difficult to include a script that monitors the
system for the bug, to be run by cron, then notifies the user, providing
an option to automatically disable power management on the disk if so.
I could do that. Is there a way I could get it
Brian: I've replaced the old config.d/disk and power.d/disk files with
the updated ones and made them executable as you've directed, and the
APM level is still reset back to 128 after resume from
suspend/hibernate.
Since I can manually enter
sudo hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda
in a terminal and change
ethanay: have you tried adding your script to /etc/acpi directories per the
ubuntuforums post?
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3675960postcount=26
Also, you should be able to run sudo hdparm -B 254 /dev/sda on startup
by adding it to System Preferences Sessions.
--
High frequency
Ryan: Thanks for the suggestions. That brings up an important
distinction: startup settings are fine (APM 254). The problem is
specifically with resume from suspend or hibernate.
The link you provided was the first solution that I tried, with no
success.
--
High frequency of load/unload
Dell XPS m1330 laptop running hardy 8.04 with latest
none of the ugly fixes above or others that I have encountered elsewhere
have worked; HDD apm value (hdparm -I /dev/sda) after resume from
suspend or hibernate persistently resets to 128. I get about 5-8
load/unloads per minute. I have tried
It would be nice if we get an official response from Ubuntu on this and what
are their plans on correcting the issue.
Ubuntu is a community developed, Linux-based operating system that is perfect
for laptops, desktops and servers.
I can agree but not on laptops sure the software that comes
** Changed in: laptop-mode-tools (Mandriva)
Status: Fix Released = Confirmed
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Well I am surprised this bug was overlooked in Hardy,
It does angers me that is was not corrected, my friends all want Ubuntu on
their laptops and I am saying to them not to install it till this issue is
corrected..
You must understand as a PC Tech if I recommend Ubuntu to laptop user's and
Is this really a bug with Ubuntu - Linux in general. As far as I've
observed , this seems to be inherent to the Hard disks. I'm guessing
these parameters were set , keeping Windows in mind.
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High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
I don't think this is a general Linux problem. I had this under Windows XP too.
It has something to do with the Advanced power management which seems to be set
to 128 per default from the hard disk producer which lets the hard disk sleep
after a short time. At least under Linux it is very easy
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