Re: [Bug 1] suggested patch - search engine for free hardware systems
My primary concern now is the wireless drivers. http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/net/wireless/cards.html -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1] suggested patch - search engine for free hardware systems
My primary concern now is the wireless drivers. http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/net/wireless/cards.html I am familiar with this page. Good luck trying to find an actual laptop that comes with one of those cards. -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1] suggested patch - search engine for free hardware systems
On 05/07/07, Mark Shuttleworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even a really good vendor like Intel still has the odd propietary blob (on the way out, but still there). Sorry to wander further off-topic, but this really intrigued me: What do you mean by on the way out? My primary concern now is the wireless drivers. Most laptops that i could find where i live have Intel a/b/g wireless cards, which Ubuntu considers restricted. When i popped a 7.04 live CD into a Toshiba laptop in a store, that's the only restricted driver it complained about. I can feel more content if i buy this one knowing that some day there'll be a true free driver. However, when i googled for linux wireless driver blob i couldn't find anything substantial. There were mostly stories on making one for OpenBSD and they also said that it will probably not work for Linux. Or did Intel announce that they are releasing the source? (Please excuse my cluelessness. I know that it's all hard work and i don't expect kernel hackers to produce a driver just for me; i'm just a curious monkey tring to follow the Free Software ethic.) -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1] suggested patch - search engine for free hardware systems
Amir E. Aharoni wrote: On 05/07/07, Mark Shuttleworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even a really good vendor like Intel still has the odd propietary blob (on the way out, but still there). Sorry to wander further off-topic, but this really intrigued me: What do you mean by on the way out? My primary concern now is the wireless drivers. Most laptops that i could find where i live have Intel a/b/g wireless cards, which Ubuntu considers restricted. When i popped a 7.04 live CD into a Toshiba laptop in a store, that's the only restricted driver it complained about. I can feel more content if i buy this one knowing that some day there'll be a true free driver. Yes, Intel is working on a free driver (with closed firmware, but that's not unusual at this stage and is more acceptable IMO). -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1] suggested patch - search engine for free hardware systems
Thanks OK Amir ! Lots of us are equally curious. With the latest forays into cross-licensing and other such ilk it would seem apparent that proprietary drivers will be ground into dust. There are many free operating systems, most will just hack' the drivers, or come up with a workaround. The problem (good) is that Ubuntu plays by all of the rules so it requires the user (me, you etc) to employ other methods or simply sign a E.U.L.A. that may be distasteful. Intel, Nvidia, Broadcom, S.I.S. and many more have created this problem for wireless drivers. I have two machines with Broadcom, wireless, chips, what a nuisance ! When building my working system I shopped for parts that have free drivers. Atheros on wireless etc. There may be 40 million Linux users and growing, most of us are technically minded and help many others make decisions on buying. So, we have an influence. Note that I've found it easy to install Ubuntu 7.04 in Dell laptops. regards, Allen On 7/6/07, Amir E. Aharoni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 05/07/07, Mark Shuttleworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Even a really good vendor like Intel still has the odd propietary blob (on the way out, but still there). Sorry to wander further off-topic, but this really intrigued me: What do you mean by on the way out? My primary concern now is the wireless drivers. Most laptops that i could find where i live have Intel a/b/g wireless cards, which Ubuntu considers restricted. When i popped a 7.04 live CD into a Toshiba laptop in a store, that's the only restricted driver it complained about. I can feel more content if i buy this one knowing that some day there'll be a true free driver. However, when i googled for linux wireless driver blob i couldn't find anything substantial. There were mostly stories on making one for OpenBSD and they also said that it will probably not work for Linux. Or did Intel announce that they are releasing the source? (Please excuse my cluelessness. I know that it's all hard work and i don't expect kernel hackers to produce a driver just for me; i'm just a curious monkey tring to follow the Free Software ethic.) -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. -- http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/allen.onpizzazz/my_photos http://www.speedtest.net/result/63662323.png -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1] suggested patch - search engine for free hardware systems
Dear Mark, How about having a division of Canonical certify that certifies hardware and supporting driver software as Ubuntu Compliant? This could be a supportable enterprise. Fees paid by manufacturers to allow them to display the Certified Ubuntu product logo on their equipment might pay for the web site. BTW thanks for the excellent software and... Kindest Regards, Paul Flint / Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth/V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it.^^-^^ -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1] suggested patch - search engine for free hardware systems
On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, Paul Flint wrote: Note the removal of extra certify in first line of message... Dear Mark, How about having a division of Canonical that certifies hardware and supporting driver software as Ubuntu Compliant? This could be a supportable enterprise. Fees paid by manufacturers to allow them to display the Certified Ubuntu product logo on their equipment might pay for the web site. BTW thanks for the excellent software and... Kindest Regards, Paul Flint / Paul Flint 17 Averill Street Barre, VT 05641 http://www.flint.com/home skype: flintinfotech Work: (202) 537-0480 Fax: (703) 852-7089 Free advice .~. is worth/V\ exactly what /( )\ you pay for it.^^-^^ -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
[Bug 1] suggested patch - search engine for free hardware systems
Ubuntu is both a popular distribution and one that is relatively purist about Free Software. Despite that, i couldn't find an *easy* way on any Ubuntu-related website, or anywhere on the web, to test whether a computer will work with Ubuntu without the need to use restricted drivers and firmware *before* i buy the computer. Until now everything was an afterthought - for years i installed Linux after i bought the computer and all the time i ran into problems because there were no drivers at all or because there were no free drivers. Now i want to test that a computer will be completely usable with only Free Software without binary blobs and proprietary firmware - but i couldn't find any sane way to do it without being a hardware guru, kernel hacker and master lspci decryptor. I already looked at the gNewSense webpage ( http://wiki.gnewsense.org/Main/RecommendedHardware ) and FSF's Hardware compatibility page ( http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/ ). Still too hard to decypher. I looked at a few linux laptop compatibility sites that i found on Google, but it didn't help - they are all a mess. I know that it is all a volunteer community effort, but i think that it is a problem. I asked about it on some forums and mailing lists several times. Some people say buy a Dell/System76 - well, at least some Dells and System76's use NVidia drivers, which are either non-Free or technically crippled. Some say Google is your friend - but no, in this case it is not: It is damn hard to check every single device and be sure that it has a free driver. Some people say that i worry too much and that this matter is just not too important. I understand a few things about software, but i really don't claim to understand ALL of the technical implications of non-free drivers and firmware, so one could say that i listen to Richard Stallman's preaching about freedom too zealously; but i believe that this might be important to Ubuntu considering Mark Shuttleworth's announcement of the extra-free Gutsy Gibbon edition. Who will bother to try to install it, if it's too damn hard to find a properly free computer which can run it? I know that this sounds very pretentious and i am not even close to being a notable member of the Ubuntu community, but i think that this is a bit of a meta-bug in itself and that the famous Bug #1 cannot be fixed before this issue is addressed somehow. Any ideas how can that be made easier? -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1] suggested patch - search engine for free hardware systems
It's definitely important to be able to know if a device will work with free software drivers only. I think the radically-free Live CD would be one way to do it. Another might be if we build this information into the hardware device manager... perhaps just booting normal Ubuntu and running the restricted drivers manager gives useful info? Mark -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1] suggested patch - search engine for free hardware systems
Mark - thanks for the reply! Your suggestion may work, and i may try it, but even i am embarrassed by it; note - i want to know that the system is free *before* i buy it. Theoretically i can pop a live CD in the store, but it is embarrassing and time-consuming. Being able to prepare for this before going to the store would be better. What i would be happy to see is a website with a directory of laptops, such as the www.dpreview.com directory of digital cameras, where i can find a laptop according to its parts and EASILY filter out the non-free ones. It's really weird that in 2007 i couldn't find such a website, and i searched for a few days. Even simply making a section called Ubuntu-recommended hardware on the main ubuntu.com page would be nice. Currently the links to Hardware program and Ubuntu Hardware Database don't lead to any information which is useful to the end user. -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
Re: [Bug 1] suggested patch - search engine for free hardware systems
Amir E. Aharoni wrote: What i would be happy to see is a website with a directory of laptops, such as the www.dpreview.com directory of digital cameras, where i can find a laptop according to its parts and EASILY filter out the non-free ones. It's really weird that in 2007 i couldn't find such a website, and i searched for a few days. That is because, right now, I don't think you could find such a laptop :-( Even a really good vendor like Intel still has the odd propietary blob (on the way out, but still there). Those are improving, but right now it's hard to see how one could recommend any laptop as being entirely free-software-enabled. Mark -- Microsoft has a majority market share https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-bugs
