** No longer affects: null
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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945
Title:
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information
/ new update-manager behaviour is
R. Steve McKown: All except one of your points have been addressed
several times previously. The one that hasn't been is Bubbles dismiss
themselves. In notification-daemon, that was dependent on the bubble
(expire_timeout). But a bubble that dismissed itself (as they always do
in Notify OSD) would
** Changed in: update-notifier (Ubuntu)
Assignee: Registry Administrators (registry) = (unassigned)
** Changed in: update-notifier (Ubuntu Jaunty)
Assignee: Registry Administrators (registry) = (unassigned)
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I recently upgraded from Kubuntu 10.10 to Ubuntu 10.10. I find the new
update notification window method far inferior to the icon method (I
update regularly and timely). I have seen the updater pop up one time
so far, and that was over a week ago. Please read on.
1. The update window is
I'm going to come clean.
After all the garbage that I cannot believe I wrote in the last two
years I must admit that the current model far outstrips the previous
one.
While it sports some interesting downsides to consider I feel that the
model works somewhat beautifully. As of Maverick there is
Another interesting problem from this change is Bug #414181. If the
user doesn't respond to the automatically opened update-manager in a
timely fashion the Install button becomes non-functional.
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager
See Bug 549799. Now (recent change to Lucid) the icon now longer shows
up at all, even setting auto_launch to false.
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[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945
You received this bug
This is just useless .. *sigh*
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update-manager behaviour is annoying
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I get no window popping up and no icon in the notification area - I get
no updates at all. How can I get at least one of them working? I prefer
the icon.
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[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
So, any news on getting old behaviour back? or any changes to existing
popup ?
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[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
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** Changed in: null
Status: Fix Released = Fix Committed
** Changed in: null
Status: Fix Committed = Fix Released
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945
You
This is what I can do in one minute, and I'm no hacker or webdesigner:
http://www.ime.unicamp.br/~martinez/leandro/test1.html
Click on the click here and then click anywhere on the image.
I myself got confused while doing this because the first image is totally
realistic on my system and I had
OK Leandro,
I just sent an email to Ayatana list with your mockup and presenting
the argument on the possible security flaw. Let us see how it goes.
However, I would not be very hopeful, it seems like people in
Canonical are convinced that the new behavior is good.
best,
Paulo
On Wed, Nov 18,
On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 13:13 +, Paulo J. S. Silva wrote:
OK Leandro,
I just sent an email to Ayatana list with your mockup and presenting
the argument on the possible security flaw. Let us see how it goes.
However, I would not be very hopeful, it seems like people in
Canonical are
Graeme the number of duplicates speaks for itself. But it seems that,
for some reason, no usability is involved in this bug (the current
behaviour is against nearly *every* usability rule ). I assume (and I
hope) that this more-important-than-usability reason worth it and I
would like more
On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 08:11 +, Lionel Dricot wrote:
Graeme the number of duplicates speaks for itself. But it seems that,
for some reason, no usability is involved in this bug
What is intriguing with Graeme's user scenario is, why have the users
been ignoring the window which was popping
mac_v I've posted some answers in this comment :
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-
notifier/+bug/332945/comments/430
It's up to the user to choose when he wants to update. Forcing him is
*never* the good time. Poping up a window will *always* be annoying.
When a normal user
Disabling the updater daemon is now part of my installation routine for
newbies. (well, I'm still looking for someone that will find that
useful so I do it only when they tell me they have a bug with a window
appearing all the time).
Why disable it? Just use gconf and recover the old (and good)
Paulo because I didn't know. Thanks for the information :-)
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[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
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Or, in a one-liner: gconftool -s --type bool /apps/update-
notifier/auto_launch false
Please fix this. Even as this CLI-entry is not much work, I'm trying to
keep my post-install tasks to the absolute minimum.
Everything what can be said, is already said here above, well put,
especially by
mac_v wrote:
What is intriguing with Graeme's user scenario is, why have the users
been ignoring the window which was popping up?
Why were they not updating when the window opened and dismissing it
instead?
On all computers I've installed Karmic (and Jaunty before) the
update-manager
mac_v What is intriguing with Graeme's user scenario is, why have the users
been ignoring the window which was popping up?
This is important to look at, I think. Others have mentioned reasons for
this that overlap what I've seen: windows pop up minimized, or behind
other windows so they don't get
As a personal sidenote, I want to add that, during the early discussion, I
was not opposed to the idea. I had a lot of doubt but it has to be tried. I
was kind of agnostic so let's try and see. Now, I can say that I've seen.
It's not a matter of personal preferences : it's a matter when user you
What is intriguing with Graeme's user scenario is, why have the users
been ignoring the window which was popping up?
Users ignore this kind of popup behavior because the internet, and viruses
do this crap all the time.
The same way you filter out ads online, in the store, on tv, wherever you
There is a simple solution to this problem Turn off auto update And
check it manually.
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update-manager behaviour is annoying
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945
You received this bug notification because you are a
Dave The root problem with all of this, for me, is that users aren't
doing their updates. Your solution is simply to make the problem
worse. No thanks.
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[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
Yes, Dave, this is what I do in all machines I install. Simply put, most
machines I install (family and friends) only get updated when I really have
nothing else to do. This is only because I want these people to like Ubuntu and
that popup is extremelly annoying. Fortunatelly updates are not
The problem was that users were not applying their updates. Now the problem
is that
an annoying popup (or popunder) is jumping on our desktops, and the first
problem
was aggravated for some people posting here (the statistics of that is missing,
as noted
before).
Also, can you imagine the
2009/11/17 Leandro leandromartine...@gmail.com:
Also, can you imagine the security absurd for a
unexperienced user which gets used to the system
popuping something AND asking for root privileges?
How easy is to mimic that with a website popup?
That is a major point. If there anyone can
Le mardi 17 novembre 2009 à 21:17 +, Paulo J. S. Silva a écrit :
That is a major point. If there anyone can mimic the pop-up behavior
using a website maybe, and I mean just maybe, we can get the
developers attention on this possible security role.
This should *NOT* be a developer
Lionel,
Whoever made the decision (in this case probably some usability
expert), will have to at least reconsider his/her decision in face of
a real security risk even if to confirm it later. In my email, please
read developer in a more general sense, as someone in the development
team who is
This change is absolutely idiotic, despite all the rationalizing I've
seen here. The proof is in the actual use cases.
Everyone I know who has upgraded thought they broke something, because
they were no longer getting update notifications, since the OSD
notifications happened when they were AFK,
Just another voice to add to this discussion which echos a fair amount
of what I have already read.
- When I upgraded to Jaunty, I noticed that the update icon did not appear.
I assumed that this was a bug introduced during the update.
- upgrade manager juat appearing on its own is a really bad
karmic update forced new behaviour on me *again*.
just annoying.
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[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
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A friend that was test driving Ubuntu said the following:
I think it's not horrible, but not as good as the little notification
would be.
She also stated, It's annoying.
Just an update.
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is
A side effect of this decision causes update-manager to give
/var/lib/dpkg/lock errors when automatic security updates it turned on.
See this papercut Bug #369706 for details.
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
Rajeev Nair, if Update Manager appears for users who do not have
permission to install updates, please report a separate bug about that.
(That would be just as wrong for a notification icon as it is for Update
Manager.)
** Changed in: hundredpapercuts
Status: New = Invalid
--
[Jaunty]
I don't believe personnal opinions are relevants when we talk about user
experience. I was personnaly not against the current behaviour as I
thought why not.
But now, I have some numbers. I've converted my whole family and most of
my circle of friends to Ubuntu. Once in a while, I help them to
Hi Mathew P Thomas
Any user who knows the admin password can install updates, so iam not
sure what you mean by 'update manager appears for users who dont have
permission to install'
Anyways, glad you still are present in this thread.Iam expecting
something spectacular for notifications in
On Mon, 2009-08-17 at 15:04 +, Rajeev Nair wrote:
Any user who knows the admin password can install updates,
That's a pretty long stretch -- assuming that all users have the admin
password. This is *exactly* the mentality that has lead to millions of
windows machines being exploited and
Rajeev Nair: You said: Any user who knows the admin password can
install updates...
Did you actually test this with a user who is not in the admin group?
What admin password do you have in mind, since Ubuntu systems do not
normally have a root password? I think you are mistaken. Only users in
I agree with corey.Update manager is a huge resource hog.In my office
with 50 systems,not a single one is updated ,because the systems dont
belong to the employee who uses it.
But almost each one of them updates their systems at home.Through the
windows or ubuntu icon.Now we went ahead with
Everybody knows, except the Ayatana team, that a flashing window is
annoying and distracting. Real annoying use cases are so common that
there's no point in enumerating them.
My suggestion is to reconfigure the update notifier to only check for
updates every two weeks. This should be enough time
Sorry, the previous message is probably not addressed to Ayatana tem,
but to whatever team that has decided to change the behavior of update
notifier.
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
hdante: Your snide remarks made me chuckle for quite a while. I'm all
for a program that does that!
Seriously, though, at 31 dupes, more subscribers than I can count, and a
100 percent (I believe) consensus from the community that this behavior
is stupid, I'm a little sad to notice that there's
Any one ever consider that the update manager uses a whole bunch of
resources. For older systems it renders the rest of the desktop almost
useless until its finished loading, and completely locks it up if you
were already using a resource intensive app. For me and I suspect some
others at least
If you can provide a realistic way of spoofing either the updates window
or the resulting password dialog in a way that an Ubuntu user might be
exposed to (e.g. a Web page or an e-mail message), please attach a demo
to bug 370248. Thanks.
Loïc Martin, it should be abundantly clear from the
maybe we can make the new feature an opt-in instead of an opt-out? that way
people that dont want to use it dont have to.
I know it defeats the purpose of the whole redesign of it but it is really
annoying.
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
This solution to my above comment may not be popular :
maybe have an option on the installer to use it or not
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945
You received this bug
Loïc Martin: I believe that, while it was certainly a plus for them to
clean up the notification dialogue, the end goal was to make updates
more noticeable and present for the average user that would probably
just ignore the icon in the tray. Nine out of ten Windows machines that
I fix have a
A quote from my friend on his Mac's notification system:
I find the bouncy icon annoying and all, but if it weren't there I'd
probably never update. When it does bounce, I see all the updates and if
I don't use some programs in the list ill [sic] just ignore them
altogether.
While I in NO WAY
On lun, 2009-07-06 at 13:36 +, Chauncellor wrote:
A quote from my friend on his Mac's notification system:
I find the bouncy icon annoying and all, but if it weren't there I'd
probably never update. When it does bounce, I see all the updates and if
I don't use some programs in the list
I can certainly agree with and appreciate that. It is true that the
notification area in the average Ubuntu installation is nowhere near as
cluttered as the system tray in the average Windows installation, and it
is better to solve a problem *before* it becomes a problem rather than
after. I'd
mac_v wrote:
The notification area icon is *not* returning...
That's not true. The notification area icon is probably not returning
for the next release of Ubuntu, but in 2 or 3 years time, when
everybody will have forgotten, there's nothing to prevent it to be
reintroduced as a groundbreaking
In what way will the way the pop under change in the way it is
presented? It really doesn't matter how it is presented, if it pops up
in the users space it is going to be hated by most people. Media
center PC's, presentations, people doing real work will always find it a
huge annoyance if it uses
i like the way it was in intrepid
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[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
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Still getting dupes of this. We're up to 32, now
Any word on what's up?
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945
You received this bug notification because you are a member of
When I reported the bug I thought it might be a security issue and I
still think it might. In my case the window opened spontaneously and I
got notification of updates but when I closed that window without
updating and clicked on update manager to deliberately open the window
and check for
Chauncellor wrote:
Still getting dupes of this. We're up to 32, now
Any word on what's up?
The notification area icon is *not* returning...
As for the Automatic Pop-under, work is being done on presenting the
window better, so lets wait .
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide
+1. Please add my name to the list. The Intrepid behaviour was correct.
The Jaunty behaviour is not. What more needs to be said?
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[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945
You
** Summary changed:
- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information
+ [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
Just my 2 cents, but I consider we're going right into a wall if we design
intrusive tools, even if the intrusiveness (does this word exist ?) is
legitimate. Remember what about to Windows' UAC.
Imo, it should be ok to use a notify-osd notification + a systray icon for
updates as soon as they're
** Also affects: hundredpapercuts
Importance: Undecided
Status: New
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information / new
update-manager behaviour is annoying
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945
You received this bug notification because you are a member of
** Description changed:
+ *
+ For anyone who REALLY wants to revert to the pre-Ubuntu 9.04 behaviour, you
may run:
+
+ gconftool -s --type bool /apps/update-notifier/auto_launch false
+ *
+
I am
So, it turns out that this bug is actually partially fixed (the
excessive opening at least) by bug #369198 which has been sitting in SRU
(Stable Release Update) verification for 2 months.
mvo sladen: it needs a sru-verficiation
pitti sladen: well, we need some people giving testing feedback
Steve Dodier wrote:
Imo, it should be ok to use a notify-osd notification + a systray icon for
updates as soon as they're available, and to pop-up the window only on
extreme cases :
@ Steve:
The pop-up window seems like a reasonable option in the scenario's
you've given... But i feel that
I had been very vocal here opposing the change but i went with it...
And *even though it might not have been the intended purpose* for the
removal of the icon, *I have found the icon removal useful* ...
*Now I dont think much about the updates* , there is no icon nagging me
about the
** Description changed:
- *
- For anyone who REALLY wants to revert to the pre-Ubuntu 9.04 behaviour, you
may run:
-
- gconftool -s --type bool /apps/update-notifier/auto_launch false
-
- A partial fix for update-notifier is queued in bug #369198
** Description changed:
I am referring to the removal up the update-notifier in the Gnome
notification area. The discussion of it is embedded in the thread
headed by:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-
devel/2009-February/027416.html
Specific messages worth reading
Paulo J. S. Silva wrote:
* When the user has chosen not to download updates , These
notification repeat again at a later
time[10mins/30mins/1hr/4hrs/1day/7days],which the user chooses from a
drop-down menu and if the user tries to shutdown before updating he is
reminded again via the
I'm fairly partial to the idea of subtly putting a fade/blink action in
the System of the menu bar and devote another menu entry there. Of
course, there's a problem if someone wants to remove it. But i really do
think that would be the best action.
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide
On 14/06/2009 Chauncellor wrote:
After realizing this, I've found out that MPT was right: I don't think
that any icon will suit the notification area for a casual user. There
is something that needs to be done. HOWEVER, I still don't agree that
the pop-up is the necessary solution.
I
Il giorno lun, 15/06/2009 alle 22.55 +, bdoe ha scritto:
The same could be said for Windows. Since Windows XP SP2, automatic
security updates are turned on by default, and users have to
specifically opt out of it to turn it off.
I want to point out the following to the many who think
To use automotive analogies in this... If our check engine light comes
on our car taking us in a straight line to the dealership, not following
roads, going straight through forest, lakes, streams etc. Its just
ludicrous devs hijacking the desktop with unsolicited pop-ups. Update
manager is going
Chauncellor:
No it is different.
If you read carefully my text you'll see that I consider that the
notification area should only be populated by docked applications,
that is running applications that usually should stay in the background
doing their thing but that want to leave some small
Paulo: I understand more, now, thanks. I've read the proposals on
Launchpad, and I feel that those are better approaches already than what
has been done.
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945
You received this bug
-Original Message-
From: Vincenzo Ciancia
Subject: Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would
provide useful status information
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:59:50 -
I am in all ways against automatic updates because I think the user must
be aware of when something delicate
Il giorno dom, 14/06/2009 alle 04.56 +, bdoe ha scritto:
Regarding automatic updates: I'm with Martin on this one; I believe it
should be turned on by default
I am in all ways against automatic updates because I think the user must
be aware of when something delicate is happening. E.g. in
I'm totally against automatic updates as well. My house internet connection is
too
slow to handle any download and be usable for anything else at the same time.
This happens many times with me on Windows. Furthermore, as was mentioned,
sometimes an update requires the program to restart and
I use Linux Mint Live CDs on my hard-drive-less laptop when I need a
portable computer for something with things like flash and other
proprietary things pre-installed. I've been using it in this way for
nearly a year. Just this week, though, I found out that the little Lock
in the notification
I am for automatic updates for security problems only be default. This
is a sane default, that would suit most users. Of course there are
specific uses (like a slow connection or high fees on downloads already
cited) that would not like such behavior. However, this setting can be
changed from the
Is it just me, or does this indicator applet sound more and more like a
collapsible...notification area? It makes this whole excursion seem
absurd, really
--
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You received this bug
@Paulo J. S. Silva:
I still don't think that default security update should be a default, because
you just can't make the effects predictable and you may find out about it when
it's too late...
But I fully support the icon + a notifications saying click ... to
update your system (just in case
I've created an entry on the Ubuntu Brainstorm site concerning this problem:
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/20266/
I've done so because with that people can vote for something, thus providing
some measurable feedback for the developers on what the average user
is thinking, and not hear just
I have just posted an email to Ayatana project mailing list with the
proposal I described (once again) today:
https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg00251.html
In case someone missed. This proposal was already partially implemented
by C. Cooke, see comment #345
I have marked Leandro's Brainstorm Idea as a duplicate of:
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/19283
Best Regards
Lanoxx
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[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information
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You received this bug notification because you are a member of
Matthew, Mark, (or anyone else from the design team)
I'm interested to know where you are going with security updates long
term in Ubuntu.
The old behaviour was broken because it cluttered the notification area
and most users didn't understand it etc.
But the current behaviour is IMHO also
@Martin:
No - there are two problems with automatic [anything]:
1. I may be using the application that is being upgraded - and may cause it to
crash / misbehave.
2. An automatic download at the wrong time might be very costly for the user.
For example on my 3G connection it costs me the same to
...@att.net
Subject: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide
useful status information
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 00:05:56 -
@Martin:
No - there are two problems with automatic [anything]:
1. I may be using the application that is being upgraded - and may cause it to
crash / misbehave
Yeah this is really bad. I want the orange star back. And the new
notification doesnt work either.I havent seen security updates pop up in
a day and its been months since i even saw that notify osd tell me of
any updates.
Better to close this bug than just keep commenting on it and no one
trying
Chauncellor, LanoxxthShaddow: We are developing more consistent access
points for the sort of programs people often want to be running in the
background. The first example of this in 9.04 is the messaging menu,
providing access to Evolution and Pidgin -- and soon other messaging
clients too -- in
MPT.. so if I am hearing this right... popup/popunder is here to stay
and there is no amount of griping in any fashion, organized or
unorganized that can get that virus... erm feature removed going
forward?
--
[Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information
getut wrote:
MPT.. so if I am hearing this right... popup/popunder is here to stay
and there is no amount of griping in any fashion, organized or
unorganized that can get that virus... erm feature removed going
forward?
sad to say that feature seems here to stay ! since mostly they dont
have
Il giorno ven, 12/06/2009 alle 20.34 +, mac_v ha scritto:
concerns *need* to be made at https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
subscribe to this mailing list and voice your concerns... its no use
here...
Subscribe to that mailing list if you are interested in constructive
discussion, not to
@Vincenzo Ciancia
^good catch, i realized i missed something :)
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Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu.
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Il giorno mer, 10/06/2009 alle 04.52 +, mb_webguy ha scritto:
Ubuntu is likewise
a free distribution, and so market share doesn't really figure into
it.
I think you didn't notice the hype around preinstalled ubuntu and OEM,
which is where all this mess came from :) It is clear that
mb_webguy: Perhaps you should take a look at bug number 1 :). While
Linux might not care, Ubuntu does.
Really, I'm just scared to death of Gnome 2.30/3.0 modeling too much
after Mac - meaning having nothing of real productive value in the GUI
(good lord, if there's a dock, I swear I'll kill
. It's not like we're entirely powerless here.
-Original Message-
From: Chauncellor brettcornw...@gmail.com
Reply-to: Bug 332945 332...@bugs.launchpad.net
To: brian...@att.net
Subject: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide
useful status information
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009
Devs, please provide information on this, what is the current status? Is
there any talk whatsoever of getting rid of the popup/popunder?
Is there any proper method for us users to request the removal of
popups/popunders? Is there any hope at all of getting this fixed?
MPT, I think you are
Really? So the majority of the PC users, and a good portion of the open
source market decided that they liked a certain model...
And you come and proclaim that they all have it wrong? Very bold of you,
sir.
I really don't icare/i what you think about the notification area...
What I care about
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