[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Phillip Susi]

See bug #1770966 for someone complaining that they are no longer able to
install Ubuntu because this question was removed ( and the automatic
choice made to stick with an efi mode install instead of switching to
bios mode ).

Also see the hundreds of apport reports that have been filed since 18.04
was released with people booting the installer in EFI mode with an
existing bios mode install, and crashing because grub-efi can't be
installed without an EFI system partition.

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
  confusing

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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Phillip Susi]

Please pay attention:

The choice that lead to a bios mode install was the correct one that
worked.  Choosing to use efi mode is the one that failed and crashed the
install.  Now it always uses efi mode, and so always crashes the
install.  It must be changed to take the bios mode install instead.

Again, removing the choice is not the issue; auto choosing the efi mode
instead of bios mode is the problem.


** Changed in: partman-efi (Ubuntu)
   Status: Fix Released => Triaged

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Steve Langasek]

The question allowed a user who is also a mind reader and knew what the
options meant (since the actual text of the message was useless for
understanding this) to switch to a bios mode install.

The fact that this message was shown at all, ever, was a bug elsewhere
in the installer.  This will be fixed so that we never again hit the
path where this message was previously shown.

Therefore there is no value in reintroducing this opaque message.

** Changed in: partman-efi (Ubuntu)
   Status: Triaged => Fix Released

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
  confusing

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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Phillip Susi]

The message allowed the user to switch to a bios mode install of grub
instead of trying to continue with EFI mode, which would fail, and crash
the install.  Now there is no way to avoid the installation failure and
it 100% crashes.

Removing the message is one thing, but the default choice of action is
absolutely the wrong one.


** Changed in: partman-efi (Ubuntu)
   Status: Fix Released => Triaged

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Steve Langasek]

We are absolutely not reverting this.  The message was dropped because
it was USELESS to an end user.

The reason the user is *presented* the message is because there are bugs
in ubiquity, which is giving the user guided installation options which
will NEVER work.

We are fixing this in ubiquity for 18.04.1, by fixing the guided
installation options to work if possible, and to be hidden if not.

** Changed in: partman-efi (Ubuntu)
   Status: Triaged => Fix Released

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Phillip Susi]

No, no no.  This change is a bad release regression and must be reverted
and bionic respun.

The point of this was to make the message less confusing, not to remove
it.  By removing it and always trying to install grub-efi, it FAILS TO
INSTALL because of the lack of an EFI system partition.


** Tags added: regression-release

** Changed in: partman-efi (Ubuntu)
   Status: Fix Released => Triaged

** Changed in: partman-efi (Ubuntu)
   Importance: Medium => Critical

** Changed in: partman-efi (Ubuntu Artful)
   Importance: Medium => Critical

** Changed in: partman-efi (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre (cyphermox) => Łukasz Zemczak (sil2100)

** Changed in: partman-efi (Ubuntu Artful)
 Assignee: Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre (cyphermox) => Łukasz Zemczak (sil2100)

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
  confusing

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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Launchpad Bug Tracker]

This bug was fixed in the package partman-efi - 71ubuntu2

---
partman-efi (71ubuntu2) bionic; urgency=medium

  * Do not ask the user about forcing UEFI installation if there are BIOS
compatibility mode installed systems as those will still be bootable from
grub if we proceed in UEFI mode.  (LP: #1668148)
  * debian/partman-efi.templates: remove the partman-efi/non_efi_system
template as we no longer need it.

 -- Łukasz 'sil2100' Zemczak   Wed, 28 Mar
2018 18:16:17 +0200

** Changed in: partman-efi (Ubuntu)
   Status: Triaged => Fix Released

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
  confusing

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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre]

Go for it; the confusion from this message is greater than the benefit
to the very tiny set of users who might run into issues this is meant to
catch.

ie. automated partitioning will already DTRT; and people who write their
own partitions and don't add an ESP are presumed to already know what
they are doing.

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
  confusing

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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Łukasz Zemczak]

After experimenting with possible scenarios with the current partman-efi
(2 systems on kvm - first one installed in BIOS mode, second in UEFI), I
currently propose two courses of action:

1) Removing the warning prompt completely and always continuing in UEFI
mode. During my testing on bionic it seemed that there was no risk in
continuing in UEFI mode, even when BIOS mode OSes were present they were
still bootable and visible in grub. Maybe I missed some test case? What
use-case could tempt the user to not continue the install in UEFI since
that's the mode we're in right now? Maybe just a warning, without any
choices, would be enough?

2) Reformat the warning message and default to continuing in UEFI mode.
I'm not an expert here, but to me currently it feels like the more risky
solution is to not to force the EFI install. If the system is running in
UEFI mode and the user selects 'cancel', in the end he/she will not have
a bootable system anymore without switching to BIOS or creating the ESP
manually. To me that doesn't sound like a very good default. Or am I
misunderstanding something from the testing I did?

I'd generally prefer 1), but I'll defer to people with more experience
in UEFI and partman-efi.

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Steve Langasek]

It should be understood that when fixed, this message also needs to
stand alone.  The user has two choices before them, "yes, force" and
"no, don't force".  The system must not assume that the user remembers
anything about what was done before in the installer, or knows what will
come next when picking either of those two options, except what the
message tells them.

It's also possible that the real bug here is in this message ever being
shown to the user at all.  But someone needs to dig into the code and
see it in context of the installer (both ubiquity and d-i) to make that
determination.

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
  confusing

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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Steve Langasek]

Here is the current message:

 Force UEFI installation?

 This machine's firmware has started the installer in UEFI mode but
 it looks like there may be existing operating systems already
 installed using "BIOS compatibility mode". If you
 continue to install Debian in UEFI mode, it might be difficult to
 reboot the machine into any BIOS-mode operating systems later.

 If you wish to install in UEFI mode and don't care about
 keeping the ability to boot one of the existing systems, you have the
 option to force that here. If you wish to keep the option to boot an
 existing operating system, you should choose NOT to force UEFI
 installation here.

And here is what has proposed in the prior upload that was rejected from
the queue last cycle:

 Force UEFI installation?

 This machine's firmware has started the installer in UEFI mode but
 it looks like there may be existing operating systems already
 installed using "BIOS compatibility mode". Furthermore, it appears there
 is no EFI System Partition (ESP) on your system. If you continue to install
 Debian in UEFI mode and do not create an ESP, it might be difficult to
 reboot the machine into any operating system later.
 .
 If you decide to force installation in UEFI mode, be sure to create an EFI
 System Partition to make sure your system will be able to boot after install.
 .
 If you wish to keep the option to boot an existing operating system, then
 you should not force installation in UEFI mode.

I understand UEFI fairly well, and both messages are completely unclear
to me.  What does it mean to "force" UEFI installation on a system that
has no ESP?  If I am being told to "be sure to create an ESP", is
clicking 'ok' going to give me an opportunity to repartition?  Or is it
going to proceed with an installation without creating an ESP, therefore
requiring me to repartition outside of the installer in order to make
the system bootable?  Or is it going to *automatically* create an ESP
for me if I say "yes" to "force", thus making the "be sure to create
[...]" message an irrelevant lie?  And why are we telling users that
they may not be able to boot other OSes in BIOS mode once they create an
ESP?  If we've detected other OSes, they should be added to our own grub
config with os-prober.  If we haven't, we shouldn't be printing scary
messages about OSes that don't exist.

Someone needs to understand the answers to these questions, and clean up
the warning prompt to match.

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre]

That's not the point; the system is also warning you that proceeding
with the install is potentially breaking your setup if there is a pre-
existing partition.

In the past Steve McIntyre changed the code to avoid having this message
show up when dealing with a blank disk; plus further updates fixed
false-positive issues. We're sufficiently up to date with Debian w.r.t
partman-efi already. I think more than changing the text, we need to fix
the logic to make absolutely sure it doesn't trigger on blank disks.

As for non-blank disks, perhaps it would be best to fail to install in
that case -- the system will surely not boot in UEFI mode, and other
bits will fail (such as installing grub-efi).

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  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Iain Lane]

I'll reject this from the queue given Steve's concern. You can talk
about it out of band and accept that if appropriate, or upload a new
version.

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Steve Langasek]

If we're going to break string freeze and diverge from Debian, could we
at least drop the word "Debian" here? s/install Debian/install/

(That change is also appropriate to forward upstream, AFAICS)

Also, I don't find the new text particularly clear either and would not
recommend breaking string freeze for it, with or without the dropping of
the word "Debian".  Can we workshop this further (perhaps together with
Debian) before committing to anything?

Also also, why in the world do we have to *warn* the user about creating
an ESP partition?  This should be a FATAL ERROR in the setup of a UEFI-
installed system, and d-i should refuse to proceed with the installation
without one!

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Iain Lane]

Looks like the string is translated. Is that a concern?

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  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Francis Ginther]

** Tags added: id-597a82de584cad98020216a5

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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Brian Murray]

** Changed in: partman-efi (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: (unassigned) => Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre (cyphermox)

** Also affects: partman-efi (Ubuntu Artful)
   Importance: Medium
 Assignee: Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre (cyphermox)
   Status: Triaged

** Tags removed: rls-aa-incoming

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Title:
  Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly
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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Brian Murray]

** Tags removed: rls-z-incoming
** Tags added: rls-aa-incoming

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[Bug 1668148] Re: Warning message when installing in EFI mode to a BIOS disk is horribly confusing

[Brian Murray]

** Tags added: rls-z-incoming

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