Re: Hello, I'm Martin

2016-09-27 Thread Ted Gould
On Tue, 2016-09-27 at 12:38 +0100, Martin Wimpress wrote:
> Today is my second day at Canonical. I've joined the Desktop Team and
> I'm absolutely delighted to be here!
> 
> I'm working from home in Hampshire, England and connected to the
> Internet via shortwave radio. My recent professional background has
> been in large scale server infrastructure and the transmission and
> analytics of "black box" flight data. In my spare time I'm a MATE
> Desktop core team member and the lead for Ubuntu MATE.
> 
> I am a massive fan of film and cinema, all genres except horror. I'm
> a podcaster and co-present the Ubuntu Podcast. I like to unwind by
> cooking good food :-)
Welcome Martin! I was kinda hoping you'd say "cooking good food and
enjoying it with some mate" ☺  Hope that desktop issues are easier to
decode than black box data.
Ted

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Re: [Desktop 13.04-Topic] Having a smart ubuntu desktop

2012-10-18 Thread Ted Gould
On Thu, 2012-10-18 at 11:10 +0200, Didier Roche wrote:
 In a world where we are using more and more connected web services doing 
 some of our tasks (web mails, online documentation editing, online music 
 players…) should we imagine having a more adapated image to our users? 
 This will mean reducing our main image footprint by removing some of 
 those tools we install by default:
 I'm thinking of thunderbird, libreoffice, rhythmbox and other main 
 applications of our desktop for instance.

What I see is that more people are having data online, but that doesn't
necessarily mean using online clients.  Or, in many cases the reason
they're using the web client is because they don't know that there is a
better, more integrated experience available.

 The counter-part would be to make our desktop smarter. I can imagine:
 - having the messaging menu (or an icon in the launcher, or an icon in 
 the dash) showing, the first time you try to configure your email 
 account, a window asking for your email
 - based on the answer, either proposing to directly use a web 
 application (with unity integration) for an @gmail.com, @yahoo.com… and 
 other email providers known to have good web integrations. Otherwise, 
 proposing to install thunderbird, ideally opening the account creating 
 setup prefiled with the information already be done.
 (we can of course imagine a checkbox to override the smart behavior).

So I think that this is an interesting idea, but I'd propose it a little
differently.  If you, for instance said that you have a Google account
we could offer to integrate the GMail website but also offer to set up
IMAP to Synchronize e-mail locally.

Perhaps another option would be to use the online accounts dialog to
show which applications are currently using that account, but also which
applications could use that account if they were installed.

--Ted



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Re: [Desktop 13.04-Topic] Having a smart ubuntu desktop

2012-10-18 Thread Ted Gould
On Thu, 2012-10-18 at 18:19 +0200, Didier Roche wrote:
 That's precisely why I've written:
 
 (we can of course imagine a checkbox to override the smart
 behavior).
 
 prefiling thunderbird fields based on those (so the user doesn't have
 to type twice his email) would be awesome if we can get to it ;)

Hmm, I would have said that as we can make it smarter and set up local
sync as well ;-)  It isn't removing the behavior of being smart, it is
extending it to provide more routes.

If we continually encourage people to use websites instead of local apps
we decrease the stickiness of Ubuntu in general.  They might as well be
using Chrome OS.

--Ted



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Re: Trying to reduce our memory and battery footprint

2012-10-17 Thread Ted Gould
On Wed, 2012-10-17 at 13:18 +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
 On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 01:07:58PM +0100, James Hunt wrote:
  On 16/10/12 10:07, Colin Watson wrote:
   On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 09:59:11AM +0100, James Hunt wrote:
   The current thinking is in fact to have 1 process / user. I think Scott
   was suggesting that everything _can_ be handled by PID 1, but whilst
   that may be technically true, my view is that the benefits of 1 process
   / user outweigh having PID 1 handle everything.
   
   Won't this mean that you'll have to have extra complexity to have pid 1
   tell the per-user upstart processes about dead processes, since only pid
   1 is able to find out about these reliably?  You'd need this, for
   example, to be able to have a respawning user job.
  
  Unclear at this stage: we are still gathering requirements, so no
  concrete design yet.
  
  However, iff the plan is to allow arbitrary amounts of data to be stored
  in a session, I'd prefer that to be external to PID 1 :-)
 
 I can understand that.  I think we need a clear idea of how we're going
 to handle things like respawning before the desktop team makes any
 concrete plans, though; and preferably with a minimum of complex
 plumbing in upstart.

It was my understanding that we could get this by upstart putting all of
the processes in the user session in a cgroup for that user.  This would
require upstart to be the first process in the user session, but I think
that's achievable.  Is my understanding there incorrect?

--Ted



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Re: Trying to reduce our memory and battery footprint

2012-10-17 Thread Ted Gould
On Wed, 2012-10-17 at 06:43 +0200, Martin Pitt wrote:
snip
 I don't think the reason why starting Unity and starting the
 Dash takes so long is in any way related to startup order or that we
 wouldn't have a mechanism of starting things on demand (D-Bus
 activation works just fine for the most part).

To be clear, I don't think that using upstart will materially effect the
startup time of Unity or the desktop in general.  There might be slight
gains through clearer dependencies, but I don't think that's a reason to
do it.  I think you've pointed out some real issues there, but those are
probably independent threads themselves.

 One opportunity where having session upstart (or systemd, FWIW) jobs
 would be handy is to finally replace update-notifier. It's become a
 collection of totally unrelated things (launching update-manager,
 launching Apport on crashes, launching Jockey on missing firmware,
 etc) just because we always need a session daemon to listen for
 events. This could be replaced by individual jobs that are triggered
 by uevents and inotify watches. This will help maintainability and
 improve memory usage a bit (2.5 MB RSS for upstart vs. 13 MB RSS
 update-notifier), and shouldn't noticeably increase CPU overhead.

I think that this is the key benefit, and I think it happens in other
places other than update-notifier.  I think we need a way to remove the
need for many of the long running services that we have in the desktop.

--Ted



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Re: Trying to reduce our memory and battery footprint

2012-10-17 Thread Ted Gould
On Wed, 2012-10-17 at 08:43 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
 On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 08:43:31AM -0500, Ted Gould wrote:
  It was my understanding that we could get this by upstart putting all of
  the processes in the user session in a cgroup for that user.  This would
  require upstart to be the first process in the user session, but I think
  that's achievable.  Is my understanding there incorrect?
 
 No.  cgroups provide multi-process resource control and push-button reaping
 of a set of related processes; they don't change the Unix semantics of PID 1
 parent-of-last-resort handling, which is what we're talking about here. 
 Now, Lennart has pushed a kernel change to allow parent-of-last-resort
 delegation, but a) TTBOMK that's unrelated to cgroups, b) that would tie us
 to a bleeding-edge kernel interface, c) it's not clear that it's needed for
 what we're trying to achieve.

I guess I think the parent-of-last-resort is different than just simple
noticing when a task dies and restarting it.  For instance in[1] there
is this:

If the notify_on_release flag is enabled (1) in a cgroup, then
whenever the last task in the cgroup leaves (exits or attaches
to some other cgroup) and the last child cgroup of that cgroup
is removed, then the kernel runs the command specified by the
contents of the release_agent file in that hierarchy's root
directory, supplying the pathname (relative to the mount point
of the cgroup file system) of the abandoned cgroup.  This
enables automatic removal of abandoned cgroups.

Which it seems to me that if we created a cgroup of for instance Compiz,
if Compiz and all of its children were to die the cgroup would close and
upstart would get notified.  It could respond to that by respawing a new
cgroup with a new Compiz in it.

--Ted

[1] http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/cgroups/cgroups.txt



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Re: Trying to reduce our memory and battery footprint

2012-10-16 Thread Ted Gould
On Tue, 2012-10-16 at 09:59 +0100, James Hunt wrote:
 On 15/10/12 21:23, Ted Gould wrote:
  On Mon, 2012-10-15 at 21:19 +0200, Sebastien Bacher wrote:
  Le 15/10/2012 21:10, Ted Gould a écrit :
  I don't believe that
  happened in the Q cycle, do we think that we could get upstart
 
  James pinged me recently because foundation is planning work for next 
  cycle and wanted to know what's the most important on the list for 
  desktop. I said it would be user session jobs, do other still agree 
  with that? If you have other request I think there is still time at UDS 
  to discuss those
  
  I still don't understand why we want a single upstart instance and not
  one system one and one per session.  I think that having a single
  instance is what makes user jobs difficult as you have to handle all the
  states of things like encrypted file systems, where if we started the
  upstart process later, PAM/lightdm would do it for us.  There are other
  benefits too, but at least if I can move that out of the way I can get
  other features :-)

 The current thinking is in fact to have 1 process / user. I think Scott
 was suggesting that everything _can_ be handled by PID 1, but whilst
 that may be technically true, my view is that the benefits of 1 process
 / user outweigh having PID 1 handle everything. It would make sense to
 add in user job logging with enhanced user session support. I already
 have a branch for this which went through a number of iterations to
 ensure that the facility was safe, secure and fast. The only way that
 all those requirements can be satisfied from my findings is to have a
 user process handle user job logging. So this fits in with the overall
 thinking on upstart user sessions too.

Great!  I think that makes a lot of sense.  I think it also means that
we can do additional AppArmor isolations that we couldn't do on PID 1.

So then can we really early (right now) rearrange the desktop startup to
start upstart when then start dbus and gnome-session?  That would give
us the ability to start migrating jobs over to being upstart user jobs
over time without having to do all at once (like we have done with SysV
Init jobs in system startup).  I'm sure when we do this at first it'll
cause some regressions with things like a11y, but if we start early we
can fix them by release time.

It would also be nice to get the user upstart as the DBus activation
broker on the session bus.  That way it knows all ;-)
 
  The feature that upstart doesn't have today that I think would help the
  most on the power/memory front is file watches.  That way processes that
  watch a set of files for some change, could just be started when that
  change happens, deal with it, and then shut themselves down.

 Agreed. Again, I have a basic 'upstart-file-bridge' in development.
 However, there are a quite a few issues that need to be dealt for such a
 bridge to work reliably. One of the biggies is supporting recursive
 watches explicitly, or atleast internally to minimise the risk of
 possible fd-starvation. The first issue though is finding a suitable API
 to use:
snip

I guess what I care about is that we provide a way to specify it in the
job definition, if upstart does it a hacky way to get it bootstrapped
that's fine.  We can move from doing the shell based to an *notify based
solution internally over time.  I just want to start defining jobs and
killing long running processes.

  Second for me would be DConf key watches.  It is hard today to have
  something start when a key is set to True to enable a feature.
  Usually there has to be some sort of framework involved or a process has
  to sit around waiting to be enabled.

 Yes, and a D-Bus bridge might be useful too? In fact a modular bridge
 design might be even better. Again, you could just do:
 
  dconf watch | initctl emit dconf DPATH=/desktop/unity/foo

Again, same as above, if we could hide that from the task definition
that would be fine IMHO.  We should also look to see if we can have
dconf help here, since we are paying the maintainer to work on it...

--Ted



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Re: Trying to reduce our memory and battery footprint

2012-10-15 Thread Ted Gould
On Mon, 2012-10-15 at 09:02 +0200, Didier Roche wrote:
 In the past cycles, we saw our memory need for an user session 
 increasing quite a lot. One of the consequence is that our battery life 
 on laptop diminished.
 I think having a session discussing and trying to review if we can work 
 on the more offending daemons, disabling some plugins and so on, can 
 help to put her in a better position on that front.

At UDS Q we discussed getting upstart into the desktop, which I think is
critical for a lot of these.  Most of them are basically file watches
and other events that upstart could do for us.  I don't believe that
happened in the Q cycle, do we think that we could get upstart
underneath things with some new events in R?  I'd love to see that.
Curious how we should plan sessions based on that, it seems that the
upstart sessions and these would be co-dependent.

--Ted



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Re: Trying to reduce our memory and battery footprint

2012-10-15 Thread Ted Gould
On Mon, 2012-10-15 at 21:19 +0200, Sebastien Bacher wrote:
 Le 15/10/2012 21:10, Ted Gould a écrit :
  I don't believe that
  happened in the Q cycle, do we think that we could get upstart

 James pinged me recently because foundation is planning work for next 
 cycle and wanted to know what's the most important on the list for 
 desktop. I said it would be user session jobs, do other still agree 
 with that? If you have other request I think there is still time at UDS 
 to discuss those

I still don't understand why we want a single upstart instance and not
one system one and one per session.  I think that having a single
instance is what makes user jobs difficult as you have to handle all the
states of things like encrypted file systems, where if we started the
upstart process later, PAM/lightdm would do it for us.  There are other
benefits too, but at least if I can move that out of the way I can get
other features :-)

The feature that upstart doesn't have today that I think would help the
most on the power/memory front is file watches.  That way processes that
watch a set of files for some change, could just be started when that
change happens, deal with it, and then shut themselves down.

Second for me would be DConf key watches.  It is hard today to have
something start when a key is set to True to enable a feature.
Usually there has to be some sort of framework involved or a process has
to sit around waiting to be enabled.

--Ted



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Re: [Desktop13.04-Topic] Drop gconf from the default installation

2012-10-08 Thread Ted Gould
On Mon, 2012-10-08 at 16:58 +0200, Sebastien Bacher wrote:
 - lightdm-remote-session-uccsconfigure (need to look at it but I guess 
 it shouldn't be hard)

I'll fix that one.  It used GConf when Unity used it, but has been
migrated to GSettings now with Unity, just need to update the packaging.

--Ted



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Visual Design Assets

2012-05-22 Thread Ted Gould
Hello,

We were talking about project management today and how to get work items
on the list for needing visual design.  Previously we have assigned
tasks and bugs to design, or individual designers, but in talking with
Nick what he'd prefer is that we assign those tasks and bugs to him --
and he'll ensure that they stay up-to-date with their internal list of
tasks.

He claims his e-mail inbox can handle the task ;-)

So, in the future, if you could please do that hopefully it'll result in
better coordination of work items.

--Ted



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Re: What I love about Unity

2011-12-31 Thread Ted Gould
On Fri, 2011-12-30 at 23:03 +0100, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:
 Den 30. des. 2011 20:30, skrev Ted Gould:
  Thanks for writing this up.  I appreciate it.  We're never perfect, but
  it's nice to see some positive reviews every once in a while :-)

 It was not meant as a positive review and I don't want it to be 
 understood as such. 

Sure, it wasn't a review really.  I guess it should have read noting
some of the positive aspects.  Though, in general, I was less careful
with my words since I wasn't replying to the mailing list ;-)

 The point was to separate between what users see and 
 what programs see and why that's important. The ultimate goal for me, is 
 to teach everyone that there are no fundamental differences between 
 10.04 and 12.04.
snip

In general, you are correct, but I think your language there might hurt
your argument.  I think that, for most people, it seems drastically
different because the data is presented in a different way, but it is
fundamentally the same data.  So instead of saying nothing changed it
might be easier to say only the emphasis changed.

As an example we could look at the use case of finding applications.
You can still browse for the applications in groups like you could in
the Applications menu of 10.04.  But, it's not as handy.  On the flip
side searching them is much, much, easier.  So we've switched the
emphasis from browsing to searching.

--Ted



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Re: Proposed desktop-extra set

2011-11-07 Thread Ted Gould
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 17:25 -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
 The proposed description from today's meeting was Every package that
 is NOT in main, but needed for a vanilla GNOME. Vanilla GNOME is
 defined by upstream in gnome-suites-core, gnome-suites-core-deps, and
 gnome-apps http://git.gnome.org/browse/jhbuild/tree/modulesets;
snip
 gnome-bluetooth

I think that gnome-bluetooth is in main.

--Ted



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Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Simplifying system sleep functions

2011-04-22 Thread Ted Gould
On Thu, 2011-04-21 at 12:06 -0400, Tony Espy wrote:
 On 04/21/2011 11:49 AM, Ted Gould wrote:
  On Thu, 2011-04-21 at 11:34 -0400, Tony Espy wrote:
  On 04/19/2011 08:09 PM, Jason Warner wrote:
  Hi Everyone - Sending this on behalf of John Lea, desktop design lead.
 
  ==
 
  Currently Ubuntu contains two separate sleep functions, suspend and
  hibernate.  This choice confuses users and is a un-necessary
  complication to 'sleeping' the computer.  The proposed change is to
  combine both 'suspend' and 'hibernate' into a single 'sleep' function.
 When the user presses 'sleep', the computer should both suspend and
  hibernate simultaneously.  The computer remains suspended for a set
  period of time (e.g. 30min) or until the battery charge falls below a
  set level.  At the point the suspend state is discarded, and if  the
  user wakes the computer after this point their state is restored from
  hibernate.  However if the user wakes the computer before the suspend
  state is discarded, the computer is restored from 'suspend' and the
  'hibernate' state is discarded.
 
  I'm not a fan of this idea.
 
  If suspend works for the vast majority of users, why complicate it by
  adding a timed auto-hibernate to the equation?  As a few folks have
  pointed out, what if hibernate fails?  What if the BIOS doesn't properly
  support a wake timer?
 
  I'm pretty sure the latter criteria for triggering hibernate ( critical
  low-battery event while suspended ) already works.  It essentially wakes
  the system from suspend, the power manager notices the battery is
  critically low, and invokes a hibernate.  The timed scenario would work
  in a similar manner, except that after a timer event wakes the system,
  the power manager would have to have added logic to trigger the hibernate.
 
  I'm much more in favor of hiding or even removing hibernate from the UI,
  as long as it remains an option for critical low-battery event for
  those systems that properly support hibernate.
 
  I think these are all valid cases, but I think that we should support
  this feature.  I think how we should handle this is with a whitelist if
  machines that we know hibernate works on.  We can provide instructions
  on adding your machine to that list if you want.  Otherwise machines
  that get certified by a vendor that cares about Ubuntu could ship their
  machine in that whitelist.
 
 Two words come to mind...maintenance nightmare.  ;)
 
 After having lived through OEM-hell the last three months dealing with 
 ACPI stress testing and hibernate failures on Sandy Bridge machines, the 
 idea of maintaining a whitelist of machines that are known to have a 
 working hibernate function, doesn't seem very practical to me.

I'm confused, wouldn't your work there be effectively building that
whitelist?  Sounds like work you've already done ;-)

  What I think this does, and I don't believe it's really a bad thing, is
  makes it so there are effectively two Ubuntu experiences.  That which
  you get from installing off of the CD on random hardware, and that which
  you get when you use a hardware vendor that cares about Ubuntu.  I think
  that we need to make the experience the best we can for hardware vendors
  that want to participate in Ubuntu -- and provide reasonable fallback
  for those who don't.
 
 Personally, if we really want to consider this idea, I think we need to 
 put cycles into making hibernate work better first ( faster, more user 
 feedback, ... ).
 
 Another alternative would be to explore something more radical, along 
 the lines of what OS X does, which actually tries to combine hibernate 
 and sleep as opposed to running them in a serial fashion as proposed.

So I guess that'd be the list of things we should discuss in the
session.  What are the requirements and changes we'd need to make
hibernate work well enough to make this a reality?  We can't budget time
if we don't know what we want :-)

Also, I thought this *was* how OSX did things.  Can you explain how that
works as I don't know.

--Ted




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Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Appindicators for xfce4-panel, lxpanel and others?

2011-04-21 Thread Ted Gould
On Fri, 2011-04-08 at 18:10 +0200, Julien Lavergne wrote:
 Le Thursday 07 April 2011 à 10:43 +0200, Jo-Erlend Schinstad a écrit :
  It would be good for both developers and users
  if they were working equally well on Unity, Gnome-panel, Xfce4-panel
  and Lxpanel. 
 
 It's already available for lxpanel / LXDE / Lubuntu, just not enable by
 default due to the additional memory usage.
 
 There is also a xfce panel applet which implement appindicators.

How bad is the additional memory usage?  I mean, if the answer is we
want zero more, there's not much we can do to help.  But I'd like to
think the appindicators are fairly conservative in that regard.

--Ted



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Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Reducing number of patches in our packages

2011-04-21 Thread Ted Gould
On Fri, 2011-04-08 at 17:18 +0200, Rodrigo Moya wrote:
 On Fri, 2011-04-08 at 10:12 -0400, Jorge O. Castro wrote:
  On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Rodrigo Moya rodrigo.m...@canonical.com 
  wrote:
   How would this affect application authors, would they need to go update 
   again?
  
   what do you mean?
  
  Basically do we have to go from app to app adjusting them again or is
  this a change we can do in one place?
  
 well, the proposal I've made is to patch gtk_status_icon_* API in GTK,
 so that we don't have to patch any app at all, as they would be already
 be using the GTK API. So this means no more indicator patches. So yes,
 it would be a change in one place + the removal of all the appindicator
 patches in our packages

That doesn't really work because we add explicit menu support which
GtkStatusIcon doesn't have.  Most applications just respond to the
signals and then build the menu.  So we'd have to add API to
GtkStatusIcon and then have patches to the individual applications to
support that API.

--Ted



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Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Simplifying system sleep functions

2011-04-21 Thread Ted Gould
On Thu, 2011-04-21 at 11:34 -0400, Tony Espy wrote:
 On 04/19/2011 08:09 PM, Jason Warner wrote:
  Hi Everyone - Sending this on behalf of John Lea, desktop design lead.
 
  ==
 
  Currently Ubuntu contains two separate sleep functions, suspend and
  hibernate.  This choice confuses users and is a un-necessary
  complication to 'sleeping' the computer.  The proposed change is to
  combine both 'suspend' and 'hibernate' into a single 'sleep' function.
When the user presses 'sleep', the computer should both suspend and
  hibernate simultaneously.  The computer remains suspended for a set
  period of time (e.g. 30min) or until the battery charge falls below a
  set level.  At the point the suspend state is discarded, and if  the
  user wakes the computer after this point their state is restored from
  hibernate.  However if the user wakes the computer before the suspend
  state is discarded, the computer is restored from 'suspend' and the
  'hibernate' state is discarded.
 
 I'm not a fan of this idea.
 
 If suspend works for the vast majority of users, why complicate it by 
 adding a timed auto-hibernate to the equation?  As a few folks have 
 pointed out, what if hibernate fails?  What if the BIOS doesn't properly 
 support a wake timer?
 
 I'm pretty sure the latter criteria for triggering hibernate ( critical 
 low-battery event while suspended ) already works.  It essentially wakes 
 the system from suspend, the power manager notices the battery is 
 critically low, and invokes a hibernate.  The timed scenario would work 
 in a similar manner, except that after a timer event wakes the system, 
 the power manager would have to have added logic to trigger the hibernate.
 
 I'm much more in favor of hiding or even removing hibernate from the UI, 
 as long as it remains an option for critical low-battery event for 
 those systems that properly support hibernate.

I think these are all valid cases, but I think that we should support
this feature.  I think how we should handle this is with a whitelist if
machines that we know hibernate works on.  We can provide instructions
on adding your machine to that list if you want.  Otherwise machines
that get certified by a vendor that cares about Ubuntu could ship their
machine in that whitelist.

What I think this does, and I don't believe it's really a bad thing, is
makes it so there are effectively two Ubuntu experiences.  That which
you get from installing off of the CD on random hardware, and that which
you get when you use a hardware vendor that cares about Ubuntu.  I think
that we need to make the experience the best we can for hardware vendors
that want to participate in Ubuntu -- and provide reasonable fallback
for those who don't.

--Ted



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Meeting item: FUSA, passwords vs. session saving

2009-02-27 Thread Ted Gould
Hello,

Chris provided a patch for using PolicyKit and ConsoleKit in the FUSA
applet that makes it so that if multiple people are logged in, you can
get a password dialog, and shutdown the system.  The way that this works
is that it asks ConsoleKit for the shutdown and restart actions and if
they need a password asks PolicyKit to handle it.

One of the things that this changes is that we're shutting down using
ConsoleKit instead of asking GDM to do the shutdown for us.  This means
that we're not logging out of the session, and doing the equivalent to
sudo shutdown -h now on the command line.  So, if the session manager
supports saving sessions it won't, as we're not even asking it to.

This obviously isn't great.  But, this is fixed in the new GDM as it
will use DBus and so we can get the PK messages from the request to GDM,
and we can again start asking GDM to do the shutdown/restart for us.
But, that's a solution for Karmic.

I feel like today we're given the choice between two bugs:

  * Don't allow restart/shutdown to work with multiple users
  * Don't save sessions on restart/shutdown

I guess I'm writing this to see if anyone has any ideas.  Anyone?
Perhaps we should discuss these two during the desktop meeting on
Tuesday?  I'm kinda thinking about going with the password dialog, but I
think this shouldn't be an individual decision.

--Ted



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Re: Meeting item: FUSA, passwords vs. session saving

2009-02-27 Thread Ted Gould
On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 19:40 +, Chris Coulson wrote:
 I had a brief look at the gnome-session code when writing the patch, and
 it appears that the only thing that it does differently to the FUSA is
 block on any applications that are trying to inhibit closing the
 session. In this case, it pops up the inhibit dialog. Once the user has
 confirmed this, all it seems to do is send Stop() to ConsoleKit in the
 same way that the FUSA does now.
 
 It seems that the only thing the new FUSA misses is being able to cancel
 the action if some application wants to inhibit it (but that didn't
 happen with the old GDM interface anyway).

That's basically what it does, but it also sends out a signal that it's
going to shutdown to all the applications to allow them to inhibit the
shutdown for various reasons.

http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/gnome-session/docs/gnome-session.html#id2735819

This could be that a document isn't saved or just because you feel like
it.  I'm not sure if any apps have implemented all of the new API.
There's been some talk about putting it into GTK+, but I don't believe
that there is anything today.

But, maybe that is the fix.  Maybe we should extend gnome-session to
have enough options that we just call it directly?  That way it doesn't
give us the big ugly dialogs, but it can handle the PK/CK stuff.

There is currently only commands to bring up dialogs:

http://www.gnome.org/~mccann/gnome-session/docs/gnome-session.html#org.gnome.SessionManager.Shutdown

--Ted



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Re: gnome-power-manager human icon set

2008-12-18 Thread Ted Gould
On Thu, 2008-12-18 at 00:03 +0100, Sebastian Heinlein wrote:
 Am Montag, den 15.12.2008, 10:01 -0600 schrieb Ted Gould:
  On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 11:38 +, Matthew East wrote:
   I'd like to draw some attention to this bug, which has been open now
   for over 2 and a half years, and is still a problem in the latest
   release.
   
   https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-power/+bug/32921
  
  +1
  
  We could also patch GPM so that it would use more icons if that would
  help.  I believe that only uses icons on the 20s for percentage
  currently.
 
 You should better create a patch and propose it upstream.

I will, if the art team determines it to be useful.  But they haven't
done that.

--Ted



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Re: gnome-power-manager human icon set

2008-12-15 Thread Ted Gould
On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 11:38 +, Matthew East wrote:
 I'd like to draw some attention to this bug, which has been open now
 for over 2 and a half years, and is still a problem in the latest
 release.
 
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-power/+bug/32921

+1

We could also patch GPM so that it would use more icons if that would
help.  I believe that only uses icons on the 20s for percentage
currently.

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Re: Desktop Team Meeting, 2008-10-02

2008-10-03 Thread Ted Gould
On Fri, 2008-10-03 at 16:39 +1000, Sarah Hobbs wrote:
 Scott James Remnant wrote:
  == gnome-themes ==
  
  kwwii began a discussion about the gnome-themes package, which has been
  suggested to be split into two pieces; one containing good themes and
  the other not so good themes.
  
  seb128 strongly suggests retaining the gnome-themes package, separating
  out the others into a seperate package; or having gnome-themes as a
  dummy package depending on both split packages (with only the good
  themes installed by default)
 
 Can I ask what the rationale behind this is?  No rationale was given in
 the meeting, either.

What's the rationale for anything?  CD Size  :)

My understanding is that the gnome-themes package includes the
hicontrast themes which are very important, but also includes themes
that are more user preferences.  At least for a default install, we
don't need to include all the themes people could want.

--Ted



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Re: Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

2008-08-22 Thread Ted Gould
On Aug 22, 2008, at 4:10 AM, Mads Rosendahl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I was just looking over the posts about the change of screensaver. I
 couldn't really find out what the discussion ended with. Can anyone
 sum up the outcome of the it all? Is anyone working on it at the
 moment or will it remain black for Intrepid?

My understanding is that it will remain black in Intrepid.

 --Ted


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Re: Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

2008-08-07 Thread Ted Gould
On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 10:28 +0100, Odysseus Flappington wrote:
 I wouldn't mind sitting down and trying to submit the patches to the
 relevant projects myself, they're prolly at the right level for a
 beginner, but I really don't have the time at this point, maybe next
 year some time.

While I understand having too much to do, if you have a little bit of
time now one thing that would be useful is to start documenting and
filing bugs on the apps that don't support inhibit but should.  This way
there can be some discussion on the individual cases, but also we can
have a way to determine when the task is done.  I think making an
umbrella bug Suspend happens when I'm doing stuff that is dependent on
all of them would help.

--Ted


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Re: Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

2008-08-06 Thread Ted Gould
On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 11:35 +0100, Odysseus Flappington wrote:
 If the inhibit sleep on CPU load was ever implemented, it never
 worked.

While in theory this sounds nice, it is nearly impossible to implement
in practice.  The reality is that it's difficult to determine which
things are important to block suspend based on CPU load alone.  How
important is the animation on your desktop?  Based on CPU load?

What is implemented is there is a DBUS interface that applications can
call which inhibits suspend.  So if the application is doing something
that it knows suspend will effect negatively (playing a full screen DVD)
it can block that.  This interface has issues too, but it does make more
sense as applications are more likely to know which actions should be
blocking.

--Ted


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Re: Change the default screensaver from black to ubuntu logo

2008-08-04 Thread Ted Gould
On Fri, 2008-08-01 at 17:05 +0200, Martin Pitt wrote:
 Personally I wouldn't mind a more attractive screensaver by default.
 However, I'd insist on keeping the black one if you are on a laptop
 which is currently running on battery. No need to waste precious power
 there for bling.

The reality is that the blank screensaver will save very little power
over the floating Ubuntu logos.  The blank screensaver leaves the
backlight on, which is the majority of the power.  DPMS is still
configured with laptop setups through GPM, and that'll save the power.
I don't think the 2D GPU usage would make much of a difference in power
usage.

--Ted



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Re: Inclusion of Abiword 2.6 in Hardy Heron

2008-04-05 Thread Ted Gould
On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 22:35 -0700, Ted Gould wrote:
 So, I'm for it but I think it is a very close call.  I'll probably make
 an attempt at the packaging as I want to play with Abicollab, but it
 seems unlikely I'll get it right.  I think if we want this to happen
 someone with significant deb-fu would have to do it.

Seems that Fedora is shipping quite a few patches right now:

http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/rpms/abiword/devel/

From the change log, someone with an @abisource e-mail address has been
doing the packaging.  Probably fairly up-to-date.

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Re: Inclusion of Abiword 2.6 in Hardy Heron

2008-04-04 Thread Ted Gould
I guess this is the way the way I see it:

-1 Feature freeze (2.6 has tons of new features)
+1 Longer support cycle which is a plus for an LTS
+1 Significant improvements that are worth pushing for
-1 Packaging seems non-obvious as the Abi folks have rearranged things
   a little bit.  Increases risk of doing something wrong.
+1 I like Abiword and would like to see it succeed, I think that 2.6
   lays and important foundation for future word processing on Ubuntu
---
+1 Total

So, I'm for it but I think it is a very close call.  I'll probably make
an attempt at the packaging as I want to play with Abicollab, but it
seems unlikely I'll get it right.  I think if we want this to happen
someone with significant deb-fu would have to do it.

--Ted

On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 21:20 -0700, Dylan McCall wrote:
 There is a bug report filed, requesting to update Abiword to the new
 version 2.6 for Ubuntu Hardy. It does not appear that the desktop team
 has been notified of it automatically though it was suggested that you
 folks should have something to do with the freeze exception, so I may as
 well let you know myself!
 The reasoning is, in my opinion, indisputable. 2.4.x is now dead; it is
 not going to receive any updates whatsoever. This means that many
 outstanding bugs in the package would remain unfixed in Hardy without
 updating the packaged version of Abiword. I should also take this moment
 to point out that abiword-gnome is in main...
 
 Further, 2.6.x breathes wonderful new life into Abiword, and it would
 simply be a shame not to see it in the context of having new stuff. I
 think Abiword deserves some support since the program is making
 wonderful progress to being a good, integrated and easy to use
 alternative to OpenOffice -- possibly worth considering as a default
 some day. That day when Ubuntu can have a powerful and integrated office
 suite by default will not come any time soon, however, if the packaged
 version in its LTS release is out of date by over a year. Such an idea
 cannot grow support if people are seeing an ugly, buggy and outdated
 version of the program. (While this is a tad off topic, in my opinion
 such an idea would be a good one; OpenOffice is wonderful, but totally
 out of place as a default thanks to its behaving completely different
 from anything else in this desktop environment; the more momentum
 towards a full-fledged GNOME Office, the better!).
 
 Relevant bug report:
 bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/202174
 
 Thanks,
 -Dylan McCall


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Re: Standardized home directories (was: Use a general ~Downloads-folder for all applications.)

2008-02-06 Thread Ted Gould
http://specs.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-0.6.html

On Wed, 2008-02-06 at 11:49 +0100, Bogdan Butnaru wrote:
 The advantage of having a well-defined standard is that we could file
 bugs on launchpad against each application that doesn't conform,
 rather than each user meddling with the config of each application by
 themselves.

I agree.  I think that they should be tagged with a standard tag,
perhaps basedir-spec.  Then perhaps we can get a blueprint together
for a release once we know them.

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Re: Getting a usability patch into gnome-panel package?

2008-02-06 Thread Ted Gould

On Wed, 2008-02-06 at 16:06 -0400, William Lachance wrote:
 A while back I fixed up a patch originally written by Novell to GNOME
 panel, which makes it impossible to move without unlocking it first (the
 default setting is locked). This prevents the user from inadvertently
 moving the panel when (e.g.) they're just trying to open an application.

While I like this better, doesn't it make sense to remove the Lock
option on individual applets at the same time?  I don't see why you'd
need both.

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Re: About this computer

2007-12-18 Thread Ted Gould
On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 23:17 +, (=?utf-8?q?=60=60-=5F-=C2=B4=C2=B4?=)
-- Fernando wrote:
 [sudo]
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File test.py, line 113, in module
 main()
   File test.py, line 10, in main
 '/org/freedesktop/Hal/Manager')
   File /var/lib/python-support/python2.5/dbus/bus.py, line 244, in 
 get_object
 follow_name_owner_changes=follow_name_owner_changes)
   File /var/lib/python-support/python2.5/dbus/proxies.py, line 241, in 
 __init__
 self._named_service = conn.activate_name_owner(bus_name)
   File /var/lib/python-support/python2.5/dbus/bus.py, line 183, in 
 activate_name_owner
 self.start_service_by_name(bus_name)
   File /var/lib/python-support/python2.5/dbus/bus.py, line 281, in 
 start_service_by_name
 'su', (bus_name, flags)))
   File /var/lib/python-support/python2.5/dbus/connection.py, line 607, in 
 call_blocking
 message, timeout)
 dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The 
 name org.freedesktop.Hal was not provided by any .service files
 
 
 Is this normal?

No.  Do you have HAL installed?  This would normally be a package
requirement, but since there is no packaging on e-mailed files ;)

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Re: Desktop Team Development Meeting, 2007-12-13

2007-12-14 Thread Ted Gould
On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 15:02 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote:
 Le jeudi 13 décembre 2007, à 14:48 +, Scott James Remnant a
 écrit :
   * UbuntuSpec:exit-strategy : Working on cleaning up XSMP to make
 people
  happy enough to put it in more apps.  So then we can query their
  document change status.  Should solve many other UI issues.
 Currently
  there is an issue finding the current version of the spec.  Seems
 it's
  not in git.  I didn't bring up bazaar ;)
 
 Do you plan to work with upstream on this? I've not followed the spec
 since UDS, so I must admit I don't know where things are going, but
 this
 really sounds like something that could be done upstream (or at least
 tried to be done upstream)

Dr. Untz,

Yes.  I started talking to GNOME folks, and realized that nothing was
going to happen without cleaning up XSMP enough that people weren't
angry at it anymore :)  So, I've been talking to the X folks about
revising the spec and cleaning it up so that it's more clear.  I still
haven't found the current version though...  work in progress.

--Ted



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Re: About this computer

2007-12-14 Thread Ted Gould
On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 09:28 +0100, Loïc Minier wrote:
  In [11]: rootfses
  Out[11]: dbus.Array([], signature=dbus.Signature('s'))
 
  So according to hal, I don't have any volume mounted on /; my setup is
  LVM over MD, /dev/mapper/raid1-root is my /; /dev/md1 is the PV.

Hmm, I'm not sure what we should display in that case.  I kinda want to
go with the Facebook answer: It's complicated.

Maybe we should just list all the hard drives, and try to avoid dealing
with how they are set up.

--Ted



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About this computer

2007-12-13 Thread Ted Gould
Hello,

I've been working on the implementation of the AboutThisComputer
blueprint[1] and I have a little demo script of the data gathering
component.  It pulls a bunch of data from HAL and some config files and
prints to the screen.  I wanted to post it here so that people could run
it on various configurations and see what breaks.  It's nothing fancy,
but I want to try to vet out problems before more code depends on them.
Here's an example output from my Mac mini:

Processor:  Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T5600  @ 1.83GHz
Processor:  Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T5600  @ 1.83GHz
HD size:  80026361856 bytes
Network:  Atheros Communications, Inc. :  AR5006EG 802.11 b/g Wireless
PCI Express Adapter
Network:  Marvell Technology Group Ltd. :  88E8053 PCI-E Gigabit
Ethernet Controller
Video:  Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express
Integrated Graphics Controller  ( intel )
Distribution:  Ubuntu 7.10 (gutsy)
Linux Kernel:  2.6.22-14-generic
RAM:  1003888 kB
GNOME:  2.20.1

It needs to be cleaned up, but I'm currently more worried about
correctness.  I don't need posts from everyone unless the values come
out with something that is incorrect.  If everything is right don't
worry about it.

Also a couple of questions have come up:

  * Is there a way to get the KDE or XFCE version similar to the
gnome-about --gnome-version command?

  * At UDS we decided that we only wanted to have the size of the
hard drive that the root partition was on.  Does this still make
sense?  If we already have to handle multiples for processors,
video cards and network cards, does it make sense to handle
multiple hard drives?

Next step, make it pretty :)

--Ted

[1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/about-this-computer
#!/usr/bin/env python

import dbus
import os

def main () :
	system_bus = dbus.SystemBus()

	halmanager = system_bus.get_object('org.freedesktop.Hal',
		'/org/freedesktop/Hal/Manager')
	processors =  halmanager.FindDeviceByCapability('processor')

	# print (processors)
	for processor in processors :
	# print processor
		proc  = system_bus.get_object('org.freedesktop.Hal', processor)
		print 'Processor: ', proc.GetPropertyString('info.product')

	rootfses = halmanager.FindDeviceStringMatch('volume.mount_point', '/')
	if len(rootfses) != 1 :
		print 'Hmm, more than one root filesystem?'
	else:
		rootfs = system_bus.get_object('org.freedesktop.Hal', rootfses[0])
		rootfshd = system_bus.get_object('org.freedesktop.Hal', rootfs.GetPropertyString('info.parent'))
		print 'HD size: ', rootfshd.GetProperty('storage.size'), 'bytes'

	networkifaces =  halmanager.FindDeviceByCapability('net')
	networkcards = {}
	for networkiface in networkifaces :
		netiface = system_bus.get_object('org.freedesktop.Hal', networkiface)
		networkcards[netiface.GetPropertyString('info.parent')] = 1
	for networkcard in networkcards.keys() :
		netcard = system_bus.get_object('org.freedesktop.Hal', networkcard)
		print 'Network: ', netcard.GetProperty('info.vendor'), ': ', netcard.GetProperty('info.product')

	xorgconf = open('/etc/X11/xorg.conf')
	xorgconf_indev = False
	xorgconf_id = 
	xorgconf_dev = 
	videocards = {}
	for xorgline in xorgconf:
		xorgline.strip()

		if xorgline.startswith('EndSection'):
			xorgconf_indev = False
			if xorgconf_id !=  and xorgconf_dev !=  :
videocards[xorgconf_id] = xorgconf_dev
			xorgconf_id = 
			xorgconf_dev = 
		if xorgline.startswith('Section Device'):
			xorgconf_indev = True

		if xorgconf_indev == True :
			finalnode = xorgline.split('')[1]
			if xorgline.find('Identifier') != -1 :
xorgconf_id = finalnode
			if xorgline.find('Driver') != -1 :
xorgconf_dev = finalnode
	for videocard in videocards.keys() :
		print 'Video: ', videocard, ' (', videocards[videocard], ')'
	xorgconf.close()

	lsb_release = open('/etc/lsb-release')
	lsb_release_vals = {}
	distrib = 
	for lsb_release_line in lsb_release :
		lsb_release_line.strip()
		lsb_split = lsb_release_line.split('=')
		if len(lsb_split) == 2 :
			lsb_release_vals[lsb_split[0]] = lsb_split[1]
	lsb_release.close()
	if lsb_release_vals.has_key('DISTRIB_ID') :
		distrib = lsb_release_vals['DISTRIB_ID'].strip()
		if lsb_release_vals.has_key('DISTRIB_RELEASE') :
			distrib +=  
			distrib += lsb_release_vals[DISTRIB_RELEASE].strip()
		if lsb_release_vals.has_key('DISTRIB_CODENAME') :
			distrib +=  (
			distrib += lsb_release_vals[DISTRIB_CODENAME].strip()
			distrib += )
	if distrib != :
		print Distribution: , distrib

	uname = os.popen('uname -r')
	print Linux Kernel: , uname.read().strip();
	uname.close()

	meminfo = open('/proc/meminfo')
	for memline in meminfo :
		if memline.startswith('MemTotal:') :
			split = memline.split(' ')
			print RAM: , split[-2].strip(), split[-1].strip()
	meminfo.close()

	gnomever = 
	try:
		[dontcare, gnomeinfo, dontcareeither] = os.popen3('gnome-about --gnome-version')
		for gnomeline in gnomeinfo :
			if 

Re: Switching off tabs in Pidgin by default

2007-12-03 Thread Ted Gould
On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 19:10 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I think instead the issue should be taken with the upstream dev-team.  
 Making a change to have the name of the sender flash, instead of the active 
 tab.  This seems like a more logical request.  And will allow us to keep our 
 taskbars from being flooded with windows.

So you're thinking:

When the chat window is minimized the last user to send a message should
have their name appear in the window title.

Should the tab be shifted in the window when it is redisplayed?

--Ted



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Debian Screensaver

2007-11-28 Thread Ted Gould
Hello,

Currently in gnome-screensaver we're replacing the Debian logo
screensaver with an Ubuntu Logo one.  I'm thinking we should change that
so that we're just adding the Ubuntu one instead of replacing it.  I
don't think it'll confuse users and it does pay tribute to Debian's
importance to Ubuntu.  I think the Ubuntu logo should still be default.

--Ted



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Re: Debian Screensaver

2007-11-28 Thread Ted Gould
On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 22:38 -0800, Ted Gould wrote:
 I'll go ahead and
 put the Debian screensaver in the Ubuntu package.

Okay, so some of the Debian folks are saying that this might create more
issues that it would fix.

I'm now in favor of the status quo :)

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Re: Debian Screensaver

2007-11-28 Thread Ted Gould
On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 20:06 +0100, Oliver Grawert wrote:
 On Mi, 2007-11-28 at 10:50 -0800, Ted Gould wrote:
  Currently in gnome-screensaver we're replacing the Debian logo
  screensaver with an Ubuntu Logo one.  I'm thinking we should change
that
  so that we're just adding the Ubuntu one instead of replacing it.  I
  don't think it'll confuse users and it does pay tribute to Debian's
  importance to Ubuntu.  I think the Ubuntu logo should still be
default.
  
 we never replaced anything here, the 01_ubuntu_floaters.patch just
adds
 an ubuntu.svg and ubuntu_theme.desktop which are selected by default.

Okay, sorry, I didn't understand the history there.  I'll go ahead and
put the Debian screensaver in the Ubuntu package.

--Ted


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Re: Panel resizing

2007-11-16 Thread Ted Gould
On Fri, 2007-11-16 at 18:07 +1300, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
 On Nov 16, 2007, at 4:29 PM, Ted Gould wrote:
  As long as the icons on the dock use the themes correctly this 
  shouldn't be a big deal.
  ...
 
 Unfortunately they don't, as you can see by playing with the Panel 
 Properties window in Ubuntu 7.10. The most egregious example is the 
 Ubuntu icon itself: despite the presence of 
 /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/places/distributor-logo.svg, the Ubuntu 
 icon in the Main Menu applet doesn't scale beyond 48px, and the 
 Ubuntu icon in the default Menu Bar applet doesn't scale at all. (The 
 latter might be constrained by the non-resizing Applications text; I 
 think that's an example of basic aesthetic incompatibility between text 
 menus and a manually-resizable panel.)

Yes, I think that them not using them correctly is the issue here.

 Even if the icons did use the themes correctly, that wouldn't work well 
 for panel sizes such as 30px, 31px, and 41px to 47px inclusive, just as 
 it doesn't work well now. With a panel size that was specified in 
 points and scaling itself based on the screen resolution, you might 
 easily end up in those pixel ranges and not know why the panel looked 
 bad.
 
  Think of it as we suckered the art team into hinting all the icons
  already ;)
 
 That's why I suggest combining a scaling-resilient icon style with a 
 smart resizing algorithm. Each icon would need to be drawn only *once*, 
 and the panel would look much more consistent at different sizes. 
 Artists could spend less time redrawing the same icons at different 
 sizes, and more time increasing theme coverage.

I don't think that we'll ever get to the point of making one icon.  Just
likely it's nearly impossible to make a great font without any hinting.
But, we could get better.

Because all of the icons sizes are SVG, we can scale them within
specific ranges and it's like that they'll look pretty good, most users
wouldn't notice.  The next step would to be starting to do things like
pixel fitting rendering of the SVGs.  ClearType for graphics.  I don't
know of anyone doing this today -- it'd be tricky to say the least.

I think it is worth solving the first part of this, handling using the
icons we have first as that will gain significant improvement.  The
pixel fitting would definitely make it better.

--Ted



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Re: Panel resizing

2007-11-16 Thread Ted Gould
On Fri, 2007-11-16 at 16:12 +1300, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
 So to avoid the panel looking ugly at different resolutions, I think 
 you'll need a couple of other things first. An icon style that is 
 robust at all sizes from 16px*16px upward (so, for example, it doesn't 
 feature 1-pixel strokes). And a smart image-resizing algorithm, that 
 can shrink (large) icons so they don't look blurry at any size.

This is a problem, and the way that we combat it is to make several
versions of every icon.  I believe there are three, but I'm not sure on
that.  Basically, super small, bigger and then scalable.  As long as the
icons on the dock use the themes correctly this shouldn't be a big deal.

Think of it as we suckered the art team into hinting all the icons
already ;)

--Ted



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Re: Panel resizing

2007-11-14 Thread Ted Gould
[Sorry about the late reply, sent with the wrong address which made the
list unhappy]

On Tue, 2007-11-13 at 23:21 +0100, Sebastian Heinlein wrote:
 AFAIK the panel will be rewritten for GNOME 2.22. Such discussions
 should go upstream.

I guess I don't see this as entirely a panel issue, it seems to be more
of an Applications that use the panel issue.  Many of those are in the
panel packages, but folks like NetworkManager are some of the most
notable problems and not part of the panel package.

 Furthermore the font size should not change. If you choose to have a
 larger font the panel will be larger automatically.

That seems to be what everyone's leaning towards.  Should we be
specifying the panel size in points instead of pixels?

--Ted



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Panel resizing

2007-11-13 Thread Ted Gould

One of the UI reviews of Ubuntu Gutsy specifically mentioned that the
panel resizing was not good.  And specifically that in the world of SVG
icons it should be perfect.  Having never resized my panels I set out to
grab some screenshots:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/PanelResize

One of the things that I think stands out is that the text in any of the
applications stays the same.  Should it change?

Let me argue this from a couple different perspectives:


-- Use Case --

The biggest use case that I can see for adjusting the size of the panel
would be for people who have high DPI screens or a hard time seeing the
panel.  In those cases, it would make sense that if they can't see the
icons, they can't read the text also.  So as they adjust the panel size,
they probably want the text to get bigger.


-- Font size is DPI independent --

The font being used by these applets is the application font.  Which in
the appearances dialog is set to a point size.  If these people really
have a DPI issue, the font should adjust likewise automatically.  What
they really want at the end of the day is _all_ their fonts to get
bigger, not just one on their panel.


-- Not a bug, feature --

Some people might really want to have huge panels with small text.
Perhaps they're trying to avoid a couple of bad lines at the top of
their LCD screen by filling them with whitespace.  I can't think of a
good reason, but the status quo seems to always have some weight
associated with it.


What do people think about the text issue?  Is text something that
should change with panel size?

--Ted



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