Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
Hello everyone, I work for System76 and (when needed) have back-ported and maintained newer versions of the Nvidia driver in our PPA[1]. I think this is a great idea and am happy to help. I'd love to see the Nvidia driver packaging get more attention, plus when System76 is shipping hardware newer than what is supported by the Nvidia driver in the in the official archive, this is work I'm already doing. So might as well have it more broadly useful, coordinate the effort with others. I think it might be most helpful to share some of my experiences doing this for System76 over the past few years. When we've needed a backport, System76 has stuck to the long-lived branch releases when possible (which is currently 346). In my experience, these are very low-risk releases. Thus far, I've never encountered regressions in the Nvidia driver itself when moving from a short-lived branch release to the long-lived release, nor when moving from one long-lived point release to the next (for example, the 346.59 to 346.82 transition we recently made). When absolutely needed, we've backported a short-lived release (for example, when the 900 series GPUs came out, we had to use 343 as there were no other options). As far as I can tell, Nvidia uses the short-lived releases as a pre-beta leading up to the next long-lived release. Understandably, the short-lived releases can sometimes be a bit shaky when it comes to the very latest Nvidia hardware. But I've also experienced some minor regressions now and then with the short-lived releases on the earlier generation hardware (for example, at one point there were some issues with 343 on certain 800 series GPUs). That said, my general approach has been to trust driver releases from Nvidia, both because in my experience Nvidia does a very good job with the quality of their Linux driver, and because you kinda have to. The driver is proprietary, you can't patch it. Whether because of needing to support for newer hardware, fixing stability issues, or fixing security issues like CVE-2014-8298[2], you rather need to just take what Nvidia gives us and roll forward. Of course, that doesn't mean I don't test it :P So most of my effort has been on the packaging itself, making sure all the install/upgrade/downgrade/remove paths work correctly. I've tried to work closely with Alberto Milone on this, who has always been very helpful and has steadily incorporated my fixes into the official Ubuntu packaging. When it comes testing the packaging itself, most of the issues I've found could have be caught by automated install/upgrade/downgrade/remove testing in VM, and I'll love to see that happen. Seems like this blessed PPA would be a great place to start experimenting with that. Note that nvidia-persistenced is one thing that can't really be tested in a VM in a realistic way, especially now that it's started via udev rather than Upstart. And I have encountered one specific packaging problem related to nvidia-persistenced[3]. Anyway, I'm excited to see where this goes! Cheers, Jason [1]: https://launchpad.net/system76-driver [2]: https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/794964/unix-graphics-announcements-and-news/indirect-glx-security-vulnerabilities-in-the-nvidia-linux-solaris-and-freebsd-driver/ [3]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-331/+bug/1394348 On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Edwin Smith esm...@feralinteractive.com wrote: Hi All, My name is Edwin and I am the head of production at Feral Interactive. We are the Mac development and publishing company responsible for Shadow of Mordor and other AAA games on Linux. I spoke with Jorge on reddit and he suggested I post in this mailing list with some thoughts. Firstly the addition of an easier way of updating drivers is very welcome, so thanks for doing this. I think it should really help our users update without worrying about upgrading issues. With games like Shadow Of Mordor and others we have in development right now we're pushing the latest OpenGL features to the limit. This means we are hitting driver and performance issues that you might not see when using the desktop or older simpler games that only use OpenGL3.x. For example if you play Mordor on Nvidia using the default (closed source) drivers on Ubuntu the game runs in Smurf mode due to a driver bug, the performance is also lower than later drivers. We usually attempt to support all three graphics card vendors if possible (AMD, Nvidia and Intel) so having a good selection of drivers for all three vendors would be very advantageous. We can help by providing you with driver versions that upcoming games will be needing before they launch so the drivers are listed in time for the games launch day. We try to always try and avoid recommending the very latest drivers unless they are completely required due to driver bugs. The reasoning is the very latest drivers might have issues that have not been
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
Hi Jorge, This indeed would be a good move to make it easier for Ubuntu gamers to easily have access to the latest drivers. The newest NVIDIA drivers bring some improvements for the higher profile Linux game ports while having the latest AMD Catalyst Linux driver tends to always be critical for gamers. Is there any thought to also making more official along similar lines any of the open-source driver PPAs? Namely like the Oibaf PPA that ships latest Mesa and X components? Any improvements and support there would be helpful to users of Intel and Radeon graphics now that Mesa is achieving OpenGL 4 compliance and will soon be able to run more Steam games with decent performance for Radeon/Intel. If help is needed with testing, I can easily have a number of systems within my automated test farm do automated tests of new driver packages. http://linuxbenchmarking.com/?latest-open-source-linux-graphics - this is one of the trackers I run right now on Ubuntu systems on a fully-automated via Phoronix-Test-Suite + Phoromatic.com, daily basis of using the latest Oibaf PPA packages + Ubuntu Mainline Kernel PPA for tracking the performance of the latest Git kernel/Mesa code on different Intel/Radeon hardware. It could be useful seeing if a particular driver push into any new PPA directly benefits performance or at least seeing if any games fail to run on a particular build. I'd imagine that the PPA wouldn't see updates daily so Phoromatic already supports running on a triggered-basis, a.k.a. automatically whenever it sees there are new packages available to apt-get. Then the results could automatically go out on a new tracker under LinuxBenchmarking.com or wherever. If there's enough interest and once monitoring how well the existing PPAs (or if there's a new centralized/official PPA) are evolving I can set it up to trial on a few modern NVIDIA systems to see if it's worthwhile. Cheers, Michael -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Jorge O. Castro jo...@ubuntu.com wrote: ... or, how I wanted to kill Orcs all weekend, but instead I was wrestling with my operating system. Hi everyone, Thanks for the overwhelming positive response. In true Ubuntu spirit Rico, Michael, and Alberto busted this out today despite the timezone difference: https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa There's no driver difference, so if you were using xorg-edgers or michael's PPA, nothing really changes. The real fun begins when new drivers are released. - I've gone ahead an applied for the hardware for Rico and Michael through the community process, - We still need to sort where bugs will live and policies around bug reporting and what not, but I'm sure we'll sort this over the next few days. - Some mails to the list seem to be stuck in moderation, can someone on the desktop team check it out? In particular Michael Larabel sent a mail with his thoughts. From my initial testing swapping over to the new PPA has worked as expected, orcs were slain, I'm not trying to brag, but let's just say Goroth Graug-Slayer won't be bothering anyone again. -- Jorge Castro Canonical Ltd. http://juju.ubuntu.com/ - Automate your Cloud Infrastructure -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
Hello, Aspyr Media programmer here. I think this is a great idea. GPU drivers have always been a rough experience for us, especially when we were ramping up our Linux development. Having a set of “blessed” drivers that most users are installing would allows us to focus our testing on what users are actually playing games on. With the “latest bling” section we have last-minute driver bug fixes covered so bleeding-edge driver requirements are covered. For us, it looks like a win-win situation. If this gets set up I’d recommend to our QA department that we test by default on the drivers in the PPA. That’d reduce the possibility of support requests for code you can’t fix, at least on our products. Is there anything Aspyr can do to help? Ian Bullard Linux Dev Aspyr Media -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Jorge O. Castro jo...@ubuntu.com wrote: After some googling I found two people who are doing amazing work: Bah, as pointed out in IRC I totally missed Rico and Robert: https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa Sorry guys, it wasn't my intent to leave people out! -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
Having a disjunct set of packages for every nvidia driver series has served us well in my opinion. So this should be continued. A slight change I would prefer is a det of common metapackages. Those would control which driver gets chosen for install. Basically this could match the linux-kernel package scheme. So there could be a metapackage for old-legacy, legacy, longterm, stable and beta. (supporting drivers which don't work with the system's xorg-server isn't possible) There should be no need for transitional packages in the driver package itself. This would preserve all available driver series to roll back to if needed. I am in favor of introducing a commonly trusted (non-virtualized) PPA which is able to build for all architectures like it is done by the linux-kernel or mozilla-security team. This PPA could be promoted by some mentioned technical websites to encourage users to test the provided driver versions. Regards, Rico https://launchpad.net/~ricotz https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=nvidia signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
Thanks for the email. I read what you wrote but failed to understand the details of issue, could you give some details on what sort of issues you saw? Did we ship drivers buggy enough that you couldn't play with them? Was that fixes with the version you found in ppas? For my use case, the latest NVidia hardware isn't supported on 14.04 (I'm on 15.04 now, but it definitely wasn't supported previously). I believe I need 340.xx or higher for Geforce 750 (Maxwell+) or above. For gamers especially, it's recommended to always use the latest stable driver because it will have the latest fixes, performance improvements, and possibly features that your new game requires. Some drivers will also include game specific profiles to optimize the driver for that specific game. Steam actually included a Video Driver Update checker and will warn if you drivers are to out-of-date (this doesn't work on Linux). We've had the most games released for Linux in the last year (or so), then any year (or decade?) previously. That's why this hasn't really been an issue before. Kind regards, Bryan -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 9:36 AM, Sebastien Bacher seb...@ubuntu.com wrote: Thanks for the email. I read what you wrote but failed to understand the details of issue, could you give some details on what sort of issues you saw? Did we ship drivers buggy enough that you couldn't play with them? Was that fixes with the version you found in ppas? From a Just Works for the Desktop, the drivers we ship in the archive work just fine. However, with all that's going in upstream OpenGL and (soon) Vulkan; coupled with AAA game releases; users are wanting to get the absolute latest drivers. For example, a new game comes out, and Liam runs some benchmarks: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/shadow-of-mordor-nvidia-benchmarks-on-linux.5769 If you check out the comments there are some times when a game requires a new version for the best performance. This is just an example, but it's usually a similar discussion any time a large release is made. Having uptodate drivers in a documented location seems like a good idea, I would still like to understand how unusable our archive versions are, because if users can't use those to start games then I think that having an out of the archive solution isn't good enough. I don't consider the drivers in the archive broken, I think for desktop users they generally work fine. I don't think aggressively updating those will be useful, since Nvidia has dropped support for older hardware in the past, and I am wary of us sending out an SRU with a new driver update and old hardware breaks. (This happened to SteamOS in May). It appears as though more and more games are requiring newer drivers though. I was thinking of maybe pinging the guys over at Feral or Aspyr (who port games to Linux) to see what they think. -- Jorge Castro Canonical Ltd. http://juju.ubuntu.com/ - Automate your Cloud Infrastructure -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
Le 11/08/2015 01:05, Jorge O. Castro a écrit : because our Nvidia driver story in Trusty isn't ideal Hey Jorge, Thanks for the email. I read what you wrote but failed to understand the details of issue, could you give some details on what sort of issues you saw? Did we ship drivers buggy enough that you couldn't play with them? Was that fixes with the version you found in ppas? Having uptodate drivers in a documented location seems like a good idea, I would still like to understand how unusable our archive versions are, because if users can't use those to start games then I think that having an out of the archive solution isn't good enough. We shouldn't keep shipping drivers in the archive if those aren't usable... Cheers, Sebastien Bacher -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
Le 11/08/2015 16:13, Jorge O. Castro a écrit : From a Just Works for the Desktop, the drivers we ship in the archive work just fine. However, with all that's going in upstream OpenGL and (soon) Vulkan; coupled with AAA game releases; users are wanting to get the absolute latest drivers. Thanks Jorge, it's reassuring to know that our archive drivers situation is not totally bogus ;-) And yeah, I agree that having a way for users to get the most recent upstream stuff would be nice! Cheers, Sebastien Bacher -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
Hey Jorge, Nice idea, if any help is needed ill throw my hat in the ring for it too, I think its a pretty important cause to push gaming as much as we can. Some things to note, so this is an Nvidia only thing going by what you are saying, could we have a split for AMD users too? Also I know there are a few PPAs out there like ( https://launchpad.net/~oibaf/+archive/ubuntu/graphics-drivers) for the latest bleeding edge open source graphic stack which would be cool if we could bless one of those as well. Also I'm sure AMD can send out some cards for people if needed to test the AMD stack in such an effort, I have a contact if anyone wants to ask them directly. Also what about tweaks like setting the CPU usage to performance mode, it has a slight bump at least for my machine in frame rates. (cpupower frequency-set performance) The biggest question I have is the future of the effort given the move away from apt to Snappy eventually. Can someone elaborate on what the idea for the future of PPAs after Snappy comes to the desktop, I'm presuming it will be the default eventually. Could we conceivably have a Snap that would be just for gaming? One last thing but aside from the topic slightly, the Steam package in Ubuntu is semi-broken for certain systems because the installer doesn't have the newest Steam runtime so it just straight up breaks on 15.04. The workaround is to either disable the runtime or delete the bundled libs for libgcc, libstdc++ and libxcb. Could we get that updated or just do a script that wget's the one from Valve instead and installs that instead of the one in the repo? It is a massive annoyance and it might confuse some users who don't know how to get around. Regards, Shane On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 at 00:07 Jorge O. Castro jo...@ubuntu.com wrote: ... or, how I wanted to kill Orcs all weekend, but instead I was wrestling with my operating system. So, Shadow of Mordor was recently released on Linux so I happened to have some spare parts, rebuilt a computer, and then ended up not playing because our Nvidia driver story in Trusty isn't ideal. It's not terrible, it worked, but I think we can do better. After some googling I found two people who are doing amazing work: The first is Michael Marley: https://launchpad.net/~mamarley/+archive/ubuntu/nvidia And the 2nd is Jason DeRose from system-76: https://launchpad.net/~system76-dev/+archive/ubuntu/stable So, I approached both Will Cooke and Alberto Milone on how we could do a better job of getting all this goodness to users with the least amount of breakage. Will responded with Talk to the right people, get some +1's and tell me how I can help. That's this email. :) Alberto responded with We spend a bunch of time testing drivers, which is why we look slow, as long as we don't break that... I just got off the phone with Michael and Jason, and I'd like to start this discussion. First off: ## Why? - The amount of Linux games being released is ever increasing; the demand for fresh drivers in a fast developing market is becoming hard to ignore, users are going to want the latest upstream has to offer, and historically that's why we're here; we should strive to deliver the best experience. - With Windows 10 Nvidia is now directly publishing their drivers into Windows update. That means they can deliver a kickass experience with almost no effort from the user. Until we can convince Nvidia to do the same with Ubuntu we're going to have to pick up the slack. ## What I propose Jason and Michael have done a ton of work to deliver these goodies in PPAs, here's where I think we should go: - Let's not break distro, SRUs and existing distro policies exist for a reason; breaking my dad's computer isn't worth it, so - Let's do a blessed PPA with the latest drivers, so that people can just get those drivers without resorting to xorg-edgers and bleeding. - This PPA can have a give be the latest bling section, which is basically automated builds of the latest drivers; and a stable section that is basically a few days behind for people who want the latest, but don't want to be beta testers. - Lets work to ensure that there's a nice way to get back to the stable drivers in distro and that for users opting in won't be stuck in a weird broken state. - Lets add a hook to the graphical driver installer for Pure upstream nvidia driver, which would enable this PPA. (Actually the entire wording of the drivers in that capplet is horrible, but let's save that for another day). - We should ensure that there is an understanding of support; we're going to give you the latest driver from Nvidia, and if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces. :) Last thing we want is people reporting bugs on binary drivers that we can't fix. - I would like to dip into the community fund to provide Michael and Jason with hardware for development and testing. Carl Richell told me that they have no problems sourcing hardware
Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
... or, how I wanted to kill Orcs all weekend, but instead I was wrestling with my operating system. So, Shadow of Mordor was recently released on Linux so I happened to have some spare parts, rebuilt a computer, and then ended up not playing because our Nvidia driver story in Trusty isn't ideal. It's not terrible, it worked, but I think we can do better. After some googling I found two people who are doing amazing work: The first is Michael Marley: https://launchpad.net/~mamarley/+archive/ubuntu/nvidia And the 2nd is Jason DeRose from system-76: https://launchpad.net/~system76-dev/+archive/ubuntu/stable So, I approached both Will Cooke and Alberto Milone on how we could do a better job of getting all this goodness to users with the least amount of breakage. Will responded with Talk to the right people, get some +1's and tell me how I can help. That's this email. :) Alberto responded with We spend a bunch of time testing drivers, which is why we look slow, as long as we don't break that... I just got off the phone with Michael and Jason, and I'd like to start this discussion. First off: ## Why? - The amount of Linux games being released is ever increasing; the demand for fresh drivers in a fast developing market is becoming hard to ignore, users are going to want the latest upstream has to offer, and historically that's why we're here; we should strive to deliver the best experience. - With Windows 10 Nvidia is now directly publishing their drivers into Windows update. That means they can deliver a kickass experience with almost no effort from the user. Until we can convince Nvidia to do the same with Ubuntu we're going to have to pick up the slack. ## What I propose Jason and Michael have done a ton of work to deliver these goodies in PPAs, here's where I think we should go: - Let's not break distro, SRUs and existing distro policies exist for a reason; breaking my dad's computer isn't worth it, so - Let's do a blessed PPA with the latest drivers, so that people can just get those drivers without resorting to xorg-edgers and bleeding. - This PPA can have a give be the latest bling section, which is basically automated builds of the latest drivers; and a stable section that is basically a few days behind for people who want the latest, but don't want to be beta testers. - Lets work to ensure that there's a nice way to get back to the stable drivers in distro and that for users opting in won't be stuck in a weird broken state. - Lets add a hook to the graphical driver installer for Pure upstream nvidia driver, which would enable this PPA. (Actually the entire wording of the drivers in that capplet is horrible, but let's save that for another day). - We should ensure that there is an understanding of support; we're going to give you the latest driver from Nvidia, and if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces. :) Last thing we want is people reporting bugs on binary drivers that we can't fix. - I would like to dip into the community fund to provide Michael and Jason with hardware for development and testing. Carl Richell told me that they have no problems sourcing hardware for testing for Jason, but I'd like to ensure that Michael is sorted. I was thinking of a first gen Maxwell card (750TI), and a 2nd gen Maxwell (970) to round out his existing hardware. - I've asked David Planella if we can get a bit of support communicating this to places where gamers are, like Liam @ gamingonlinux and Michael @ phoronix. This would help us getting data early on how well this works with plenty of time for the LTS. Once we have a semi-official place it will also allow other people to contribute if they'd like to. - The intent here is very much like umake; we recognize that people want the latest bling, and no matter what they're going to do it, so we might as well put a framework around it so people can get what they want without breaking their computer. On a semi-related note, Marc Deslauriers has been maintaining a PPA with the latest SteamOS stuff, the dedicated session, xpad controller fixes, and the compositor, once we get the baseline set with the drivers I would love to see someone grab these bits and get them into the distro proper. The xpad stuff has already been submitted to the upstream kernel, but if someone wants to help get the other parts into the distro, that would be amazing. Let's hunt some orc: https://youtu.be/XD-PfIdGIBE?t=1m25s Thoughts? -- Jorge Castro Canonical Ltd. http://juju.ubuntu.com/ - Automate your Cloud Infrastructure -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
- Let's not break distro, SRUs and existing distro policies exist for a reason; breaking my dad's computer isn't worth it, so - Let's do a blessed PPA with the latest drivers, so that people can just get those drivers without resorting to xorg-edgers and bleeding. - This PPA can have a give be the latest bling section, which is basically automated builds of the latest drivers; and a stable section that is basically a few days behind for people who want the latest, but don't want to be beta testers. - Lets add a hook to the graphical driver installer for Pure upstream nvidia driver, which would enable this PPA. (Actually the entire wording of the drivers in that capplet is horrible, but let's save that for another day). I don't think we can save that for another day. There are already more choices in the drivers applet then the average user knows what to do with. - And having the official drivers applet call a PPA doesn't seem like it would pass distro policies.. Why would the average user not choose - Pure upstream nvidia driver? It has a higher number after all *and* generally should give users the best experience. I'd propose that we just give users 3 visible options for every modern card: Latest Stable Nvidia Driver (proprietary, tested) - We don't have to release this same day..2 week lag time seems fine, we would need to get a MRE for this I think Previous Stable Nvidia Driver Series (proprietary, tested, if you have trouble with Latest) - Should stay on the same series, basically like nvidia-346-updates now. Nouveau drivers, (open source, tested, may have limited 3d acceleration) For non-modern cards it becomes easier, as you only need to offer the last series that supported that card. I believe the average user would be better suited with the latest stable then the previous series. Obviously we'd have to have a good test plan. I wonder if it's One last thing but aside from the topic slightly, the Steam package in Ubuntu is semi-broken for certain systems because the installer doesn't have the newest Steam runtime so it just straight up breaks on 15.04. I have found that in general when there's a new HWE release that Steam is uninstallable for a certain period of time, but have not had a chance to investigate this other than when I see people complaining about it on reddit or whatever. Maybe it might be a good idea to put steam on the list of things that get tested as part of the HWE process? It might be useful if people gathered a list of bug reports around this if anyone out there is reading this and knows more about it. Agreed, I know of at least 2 people who couldn't get Steam installed in Ubuntu. I determined HWE was the culprit after the fact, but they had already moved on. A few example bugs: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3728, https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3730 It sounds like getting a bunch of gaming stakeholders in the same (virtual) room might help let us get good next steps on this. Thoughts? Thanks! Bryan -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Coordinating work around newer upstream Nvidia drivers for users
On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:55 PM, Shane Fagan shanepatrickfa...@ubuntu.com wrote: Some things to note, so this is an Nvidia only thing going by what you are saying, could we have a split for AMD users too? If you want to gather people up to do the AMD side of the house I think that would be swell. Also what about tweaks like setting the CPU usage to performance mode, it has a slight bump at least for my machine in frame rates. (cpupower frequency-set performance) So for things like this I was thinking let's sort the driver situation first, get that solid, then investigate other things down the road. The biggest question I have is the future of the effort given the move away from apt to Snappy eventually. Without defaulting to snappy will solve all our problems, I'm more concerned about sorting the issues out over the next cycle for the LTS since we know that we'll still be on Unity7/Traditional Xorg. Can someone elaborate on what the idea for the future of PPAs after Snappy comes to the desktop, I'm presuming it will be the default eventually. It is my understanding that with snappy upstreams can publish directly to their users and that the idea of PPA won't really matter anymore for snappy systems, but I'll let someone from that team explain that bit. One last thing but aside from the topic slightly, the Steam package in Ubuntu is semi-broken for certain systems because the installer doesn't have the newest Steam runtime so it just straight up breaks on 15.04. I have found that in general when there's a new HWE release that Steam is uninstallable for a certain period of time, but have not had a chance to investigate this other than when I see people complaining about it on reddit or whatever. Maybe it might be a good idea to put steam on the list of things that get tested as part of the HWE process? It might be useful if people gathered a list of bug reports around this if anyone out there is reading this and knows more about it. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
