Re: Look ahead at GNOME 3.26
Il 25/04/2017 07:00, Jeremy Bicha ha scritto: > GNOME might support non-integer scaling (for Hi-DPI displays). This is something I'd be happy to help, if needed. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Look ahead at GNOME 3.26
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 11:51 PM Martin Pitt wrote: > > FTR, upstream systemd is currently converting to meson [1], and we > successfully > run builds of it both in Debian unstable as well as in Ubuntu 16.04 with > ninja+meson backports [2]. Not having debhelper support is not a big > blocker -- > either we could just upload and use debhelper git master, or directly call > meson in debian/rules, as we did in the systemd package for now [3]. > > I just updated simple-scan in Artful, which is a simple case of using meson: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/simple-scan/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/rules --Robert -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Look ahead at GNOME 3.26
Hello all, Jeremy Bicha [2017-04-25 7:33 -0400]: > On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 6:11 AM, Sebastien Bacher wrote: > >> I expect several GNOME components to switch from autotools to meson this > >> cycle. > > I didn't follow that closely, is that a reference documentation to read? > > http://mesonbuild.com/documentation.html > > > I think Debian tools are ready for it right? > > To see which packages are already using meson, run > reverse-depends -b meson > reverse-depends -r sid -b meson > > graphene [1] is developed by one of the GNOME developers so that might > be a good place to look for example packaging. > > Michael Biebl has added meson support to debhelper master, but a new > version of debhelper hasn't been released with it yet. FTR, upstream systemd is currently converting to meson [1], and we successfully run builds of it both in Debian unstable as well as in Ubuntu 16.04 with ninja+meson backports [2]. Not having debhelper support is not a big blocker -- either we could just upload and use debhelper git master, or directly call meson in debian/rules, as we did in the systemd package for now [3]. Martin [1] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/5704 [2] https://launchpad.net/~pitti/+archive/ubuntu/systemd-semaphore/+packages [3] https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-systemd/systemd.git/commit/?h=biebl/meson&id=bd3fbb82462ae3 -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Look ahead at GNOME 3.26
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 6:11 AM, Sebastien Bacher wrote: >> I expect several GNOME components to switch from autotools to meson this >> cycle. > I didn't follow that closely, is that a reference documentation to read? http://mesonbuild.com/documentation.html > I think Debian tools are ready for it right? To see which packages are already using meson, run reverse-depends -b meson reverse-depends -r sid -b meson graphene [1] is developed by one of the GNOME developers so that might be a good place to look for example packaging. Michael Biebl has added meson support to debhelper master, but a new version of debhelper hasn't been released with it yet. [1] https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-gnome/graphene.git/tree/debian/rules [2] https://anonscm.debian.org/git/debhelper/debhelper.git/log/?qt=grep&q=meson Thanks, Jeremy Bicha -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Look ahead at GNOME 3.26
Hi, On 2017-04-24 09:53 PM, Jeremy Bicha wrote: > On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Marc Deslauriers > wrote: >> gtk4 is currently at version 3.90. If I understand the new upstream >> versioning >> scheme correctly[1], gtk4 won't have a stable API/ABI until around 4.6. > > That is an obsolete proposal. The plan now [1] is for the stable > version to start at 4.0. That stable version is supposed to be more > like GTK+ 2.24 or 3.22. Oh! That new plan makes much more sense. > >> Does this mean we'll be shipping an LTS release for 18.04 that contains >> desktop >> applications built with a version of gtk4 that is considered by upstream to >> be a >> pre-release version that we'll then need to support for 5 years? > > GNOME Developers have said that is their intent. [2] > >> How are we going to handle upgrading to the final API/ABI stable version that >> developers are going to target with their applications? > > Developers outside of GNOME should continue to target GTK+ 3.22 until > GTK+ 4.0 is released. > > If this is a problem for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, now is a great time to > bring it up to GNOME since GNOME just released 3.25.1 and nothing has > switched yet. Since they will be bumping the soname, it will be a bit easier to ship both the pre-release version and eventually the final 4.0 version once it becomes stable. The packaging may need to reflect that now perhaps by having a distinct name and not creating a major soname symlink. Not sure what the policy is here... Or perhaps the best thing to do is not to ship gtk4 apps until it's released. Marc. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Look ahead at GNOME 3.26
Hey Jeremy, thanks for starting that discussion Le 25/04/2017 à 01:00, Jeremy Bicha a écrit : > In the last 2 Ubuntu releases, we made this decision between GNOME > Freeze and Ubuntu's Feature Freeze. This cycle, both the GNOME and > Ubuntu release schedules were modified slightly to give us about 2 > weeks there. [1] [2] Good, I think it is wise to stabilize the current version first and wait before deciding on what to update to avoid surprises (and also to make sure we can handle the workload of the transition + updates) > I encourage you to visit [3] to get an idea of the goals some GNOME > developers would like to achieve this cycle. Not all goals are > mentioned there and not all goals will necessarily be completed this > cycle. Here's a few more things that may affect us. > > GNOME might support non-integer scaling (for Hi-DPI displays). > > gjs will probably be ported from mozjs38 to mozjs52 (the current, > supported version of Firefox ESR's JavaScript engine). Those features seems like things we want indeed (at least for the LTS) > > The Nautilus developer suggested that Nautilus 3.26 might use gtk4. > Nautilus is fairly standalone and doesn't need to be updated at the > same time as the rest of GNOME. The GTK+ developers were hoping that > part of GNOME would have been using gtk4 for 3.24 which did not > happen, so we'll see what happens here. I have uploaded an initial > gtk4 package to the Artful new queue and the GNOME3 Staging PPA. GTK4 is a tricky topic, I mentioned it during the IRC discussion but I think we should keep it out of our default installation for the LTS, it's too much of a moving target at the moment and is going to be difficult to maintain over the years without just taking the new versions which might include incompatible changes. > I expect several GNOME components to switch from autotools to meson this > cycle. I didn't follow that closely, is that a reference documentation to read? I think Debian tools are ready for it right? Cheers, Sebastien Bacher -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Look ahead at GNOME 3.26
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Marc Deslauriers wrote: > gtk4 is currently at version 3.90. If I understand the new upstream versioning > scheme correctly[1], gtk4 won't have a stable API/ABI until around 4.6. That is an obsolete proposal. The plan now [1] is for the stable version to start at 4.0. That stable version is supposed to be more like GTK+ 2.24 or 3.22. > Does this mean we'll be shipping an LTS release for 18.04 that contains > desktop > applications built with a version of gtk4 that is considered by upstream to > be a > pre-release version that we'll then need to support for 5 years? GNOME Developers have said that is their intent. [2] > How are we going to handle upgrading to the final API/ABI stable version that > developers are going to target with their applications? Developers outside of GNOME should continue to target GTK+ 3.22 until GTK+ 4.0 is released. If this is a problem for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, now is a great time to bring it up to GNOME since GNOME just released 3.25.1 and nothing has switched yet. [1] https://blog.gtk.org/2016/09/01/versioning-and-long-term-stability-promise-in-gtk/ [2] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2016-October/msg00033.html Thanks, Jeremy Bicha -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Look ahead at GNOME 3.26
Hi, On 2017-04-24 07:00 PM, Jeremy Bicha wrote: > The Nautilus developer suggested that Nautilus 3.26 might use gtk4. > Nautilus is fairly standalone and doesn't need to be updated at the > same time as the rest of GNOME. The GTK+ developers were hoping that > part of GNOME would have been using gtk4 for 3.24 which did not > happen, so we'll see what happens here. I have uploaded an initial > gtk4 package to the Artful new queue and the GNOME3 Staging PPA. I don't quite understand this. gtk4 is currently at version 3.90. If I understand the new upstream versioning scheme correctly[1], gtk4 won't have a stable API/ABI until around 4.6. Does this mean we'll be shipping an LTS release for 18.04 that contains desktop applications built with a version of gtk4 that is considered by upstream to be a pre-release version that we'll then need to support for 5 years? How are we going to handle upgrading to the final API/ABI stable version that developers are going to target with their applications? Marc. [1] - https://blogs.gnome.org/desrt/2016/06/13/gtk-4-0-is-not-gtk-4/ -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Look ahead at GNOME 3.26
As discussed at last week's meeting, the Ubuntu Desktop team will not be making a decision about which GNOME version we will target for Ubuntu 17.10 yet. This is because GNOME developers sometimes make big changes that require more integration work that is difficult to complete in the short Ubuntu release cycle. In the last 2 Ubuntu releases, we made this decision between GNOME Freeze and Ubuntu's Feature Freeze. This cycle, both the GNOME and Ubuntu release schedules were modified slightly to give us about 2 weeks there. [1] [2] I encourage you to visit [3] to get an idea of the goals some GNOME developers would like to achieve this cycle. Not all goals are mentioned there and not all goals will necessarily be completed this cycle. Here's a few more things that may affect us. GNOME might support non-integer scaling (for Hi-DPI displays). gjs will probably be ported from mozjs38 to mozjs52 (the current, supported version of Firefox ESR's JavaScript engine). The Nautilus developer suggested that Nautilus 3.26 might use gtk4. Nautilus is fairly standalone and doesn't need to be updated at the same time as the rest of GNOME. The GTK+ developers were hoping that part of GNOME would have been using gtk4 for 3.24 which did not happen, so we'll see what happens here. I have uploaded an initial gtk4 package to the Artful new queue and the GNOME3 Staging PPA. By the way, see https://pad.lv/1585903 for ideas on how to reduce our remaining gtk2 dependencies. I expect several GNOME components to switch from autotools to meson this cycle. [1] https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointTwentyfive [2] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule [3] https://wiki.gnome.org/ReleasePlanning/FeaturePlans Thanks, Jeremy Bicha -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
