Re: Xchat: the exception that confirms the rule?
On Mon, 2008-01-28 at 16:11 +0100, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: > It's very difficult to configure it. What is a screen name, what's > local alias? Where do I enter my nickname? Ok, I enter the same in all (...) > Don't get me wrong. I absolutely love Pidgin, and I use it for > everything related to IM, but let's be honest: it's _horrible_ when it > comes to IRC! IRC and IM are two different things in any case. Let's > have good tools for both. Especially when we recommend it to new > users... I have to second that. I once tried to use pidgin as an IRC client but the experience made me so frustrated I even stopped using pidgin altogether for a short while. Nowadays pidgin really is a great IM application, heck, even on MS platforms I consider it to be the best multi-protocol IM client available. Sadly pidgin fails horribly as IRC client. Whether this is because that feature shouldn't be in an IM client at all or because pidgin's IRC implementation simply sucks is open to debate. I'm inclined to think an IM client could actually have a decent IRC implementation but on the other hand I don't have any examples or references to back it up. As of now there is no decent IRC application by default so a separate application would definitely be an improvement. Regards, Marcus Wagenaar -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Xchat: the exception that confirms the rule?
On 28/01/2008, Sebastien Bacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On lun, 2008-01-28 at 00:47 +0100, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: > > XChat isn't included in Ubuntu by default, and I guess that's because > > of the rule of one application for each task. However, I feel that > > even though Pidgin can be used for IRC, it does the job so poorly > > compared to XChat, that it isn't a real option. > > Could you describe why you think that pidgin doesn't do an acceptable > easy to use IRC client? > > Sebastien Bacher It's very difficult to configure it. What is a screen name, what's local alias? Where do I enter my nickname? Ok, I enter the same in all the fields, and hope that'll work. I now seem to be connected. I have a window called freenode-connect, which sais «freenode-connect: Received CTCP 'VERSION' (to aintmynick) from freenode-connect» and I have another window that's called NickServ, telling me that my nickname is owned by someone else. Ok, so I've read RFC 1459 and know that there is a command called NICK that's used to change nicknames. I also know of a command named JOIN, which will enable me to join something called a channel, which Pidgin doesn't seem to know anything about, until you type /join #. I'm now in the channel, which pidgin has renamed "Room". I have a list of 1300 users, each having their own color, so it's impossible to read the text. Pidgin has changed my nickname to aintmynick2 internally, while people on IRC see my nickname as aintmynick. So, if someone calls me by my Pidgin-nickname, then the message comes out golden, but if someone calls me by my IRC-nickname, then the message comes out so light-green that I cannot see their nickname. Actually, only the nickname of the user sending it, not the entire message, like in xchat. ... Don't get me wrong. I absolutely love Pidgin, and I use it for everything related to IM, but let's be honest: it's _horrible_ when it comes to IRC! IRC and IM are two different things in any case. Let's have good tools for both. Especially when we recommend it to new users... I hope that was descriptive, Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Xchat: the exception that confirms the rule?
On lun, 2008-01-28 at 00:47 +0100, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: > XChat isn't included in Ubuntu by default, and I guess that's because > of the rule of one application for each task. However, I feel that > even though Pidgin can be used for IRC, it does the job so poorly > compared to XChat, that it isn't a real option. Could you describe why you think that pidgin doesn't do an acceptable easy to use IRC client? Sebastien Bacher -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Xchat: the exception that confirms the rule?
On 28/01/2008, Corey Burger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jan 27, 2008 3:47 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > XChat isn't included in Ubuntu by default, and I guess that's because > > of the rule of one application for each task. However, I feel that > > even though Pidgin can be used for IRC, it does the job so poorly > > compared to XChat, that it isn't a real option. Most users quickly > > install XChat anyway. I therefore think XChat should be included by > > default, and not XChat-GNOME, but the standard one. IRC, after all, is > > a very important tool in this FOSS world of ours. > > Xchat was removed quite deliberately because although IRC is used a > great deal by us geeks, it is not really something mom/pop and the > more recent generation use, as they mostly use IM, SMS or increasingly > Facebook. > > Corey They also doesn't use Firefox instead of Internet Explorer, they don't use Ubuntu instead of Windows, and not XMPP instead of MSN. Why is that? They're never exposed to it. People don't learn what they never get a chance to learn. The fact that Microsofts IRC client was a flop, causing them to force their proprietary chat protocols on us instead, is no good argument for removing peoples opportunity to use real, standards based, chat protocols. In fact, I'd say quite the contrary, of that reason we _should_ make IRC accessible. There is also the fact that help.ubuntu.com in numerous places refers to IRC as the best place to get help, which is true. Newbies, of all people, should have easy access to IRC in general and our beloved Freenode in particular. Xchat's standard configuration should open a connection to freenode, automatically join #Ubuntu-welcome, which should offer them some introduction, preferably in their own language, and suggest, or forward to help channels. Are Facebook, Microsoft Network, and the SMS really good alternatives to IRC? , Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Xchat: the exception that confirms the rule?
On Jan 27, 2008 3:47 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > XChat isn't included in Ubuntu by default, and I guess that's because > of the rule of one application for each task. However, I feel that > even though Pidgin can be used for IRC, it does the job so poorly > compared to XChat, that it isn't a real option. Most users quickly > install XChat anyway. I therefore think XChat should be included by > default, and not XChat-GNOME, but the standard one. IRC, after all, is > a very important tool in this FOSS world of ours. Xchat was removed quite deliberately because although IRC is used a great deal by us geeks, it is not really something mom/pop and the more recent generation use, as they mostly use IM, SMS or increasingly Facebook. Corey -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Xchat: the exception that confirms the rule?
XChat isn't included in Ubuntu by default, and I guess that's because of the rule of one application for each task. However, I feel that even though Pidgin can be used for IRC, it does the job so poorly compared to XChat, that it isn't a real option. Most users quickly install XChat anyway. I therefore think XChat should be included by default, and not XChat-GNOME, but the standard one. IRC, after all, is a very important tool in this FOSS world of ours. Best regards, Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
