Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
On 20 November 2012 13:13, Sebastien Bacher seb...@ubuntu.com wrote: I've been looking at the new ibus/g-s-d/g-c-c stack recently to update in raring and I'm not convinced it's a good idea to update to those. We have discussed the issue a bit on IRC today but I figured I would write an email to the list to document and share the thinking. There seem to be several annoying issues with the new ibus/GNOME keyboard stack. The most annoying one is the drop of the Separate layout per window feature. That feature might come back at some point but it's not in GNOME 3.6 and still is on need for design upstream so we shouldn't hold on it for this cycle. The new ibus is having the same issue... Some pointers on discussion around those topics: * https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684210 - 'Separate layout per window' is missing upstream discussion on the feature being dropped * http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=692424 - the bug is about some ubuntu ibus packaging fixes but it turned into a discussion between the ibus maintainers about the new ibus version, they don't consider it ready for end users * https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2012-October/004014.html One discussion on the ibus topic we had early on this list Note that no major distribution has been released yet with that new stack (Debian has it in experimental only and the Debian ibus maintainer seem to have issues with the new version, the OpenSuse maintainer seem to have concern about it as well and it's not decided if they will ship it for their next version due in march, fedora 18 will have it but it has been delayed to january) which means the new stack didn't get much of real world feedback yet, I don't think we should be in the first one to push it. Based on that it seems a safer bet to stay on the current ibus until we know better were things are going. Our options, if we stay on the current ibus, are: - stay on g-s-d/g-c-c 3.4 (the current version) - update g-s-d/g-c-c to 3.6 fully using the upstream code without building with ibus (they have a fallback mode without ibus integration), that's not going to restore the 'Separate layout per window' option but would avoid the ibus issues at least. We will need to update our keyboard indicator still if doing that - update g-s-d/g-c-c to 3.6 and revert the keyboard changes (e.g go back to the 3.4 codebase for the region panel and the g-s-d keyboard handling). If we do that we avoid the need to get the keyboard indicator this cycle There are good reasons to not keep delaying the g-s-d/g-c-c updates so I would try to avoid 1 and would suggest to start with 2 and see what issues we get from it and what we can build from there. We can then consider doing the extra work to add the missing bits then or go for 3 and revert the 3.6 keyboard change. Note that option 2 and 3 might have an impact on the replace language-selector by the region capplet work, especially if we go back to the 3.4 codebase on that panel, we might want to postpone that work for yet another cycle in that case... That's my thinking on the topic ... comments are welcome as usual ;-) Hey could we revisit this topic and see what still is blocking ibus 1.5 from Ubuntu? The 'separate input sources per window' feature has apparently returned which was a big blocker last year.[1] I believe the other big blocker was creating an indicator for ibus-1.5. I don't think anything has been done on that yet since the Desktop Team doesn't really use ibus themselves which makes it harder to ensure that it's working correctly. I believe we need some kind of indicator-keyboard anyway to avoid needing to keep the keyboard plugin in gnome-settings-daemon at 3.6 indefinitely. There's a basic mockup on the wiki[2]. Was there anything else serious enough to still block ibus 1.5? [1] http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2013/01/14/input-sources-in-gnome-3-7-4-continued/ [2] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguageAndText#Switching_between_keyboard_layouts_and_other_input_sources Thanks, Jeremy -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hey could we revisit this topic and see what still is blocking ibus 1.5 from Ubuntu? Sure. The 'separate input sources per window' feature has apparently returned which was a big blocker last year.[1] Well, it is returned in GNOME Shell. But I don't see it working on other DE. I tried to compile IBus git yesterday (as multiple commits happened after 1.5.2) but it failed at some Vala stuff. I believe the other big blocker was creating an indicator for ibus-1.5. I don't think anything has been done on that yet since the Desktop Team doesn't really use ibus themselves which makes it harder to ensure that it's working correctly. I believe we need some kind of indicator-keyboard anyway to avoid needing to keep the keyboard plugin in gnome-settings-daemon at 3.6 indefinitely. There's a basic mockup on the wiki[2]. Where is the context menu of input engines? Don't repeat the same mistake of old indicator and GNOME 3.6 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/1188509 Was there anything else serious enough to still block ibus 1.5? IBus is always buggy, you know. Some Arch user find 1.5.2 unusable in Firefox and IBus upstream say they cannot reproduce in Fedora. God knows why. http://code.google.com/p/ibus/issues/detail?id=1618 -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:44:58 -0600 Ma Xiaojun damage3...@gmail.com wrote: The problem is that it enforces global input source state now. In 1.4 it is configurable, you can have either local (per window / input context) or global state. I received issue report June this year for this. http://code.google.com/p/ibus/issues/detail?id=1477 I cannot read Chinese, but I understand. I (and IMHO most of Japanese users) don't mind about it. Thanks, -- AWASHIRO Ikuya ik...@fruitsbasket.info / ik...@oooug.jp / iku...@gmail.com GPG fingerprint: 1A19 AD66 C53F 2250 3537 1A9D 3A53 2C1D 20AB CC8A -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
Le 20/11/2012 21:31, Ma Xiaojun a écrit : Exactly. I probably want to try adding such feature back to IBus itself at certain point. But I have no confidence of persuading so-called GNOME design people, please help. Do you have a list of the features that are missing in the 1.5 update? Is that mostly the input method per win option? I will try to resume/continue the GNOME upstream discussion on the topic Be aware of the fact that Aron Xu and Jeremy Bicha don't use IBus. Well, I don't either and we lack people in the team we do, still we need to maintain need so I'm trying to understand where we stand. I'm not using ibus but reading bugs and discussions from users and ibus maintainers in other distributions I got the feeling that 1.5 was a problematic version ... isn't that true? Sir Ubuntu, there is no free lunch. If you have specific design idea/blueprint that related to IBus, please use upstream channel to request or discuss. Right, we don't though, we lack people knowing it and we are stuck in trying to understand what change between ibus-1.4 and GNOME 3.4 and ibus-1.5 and GNOME 3.6 to see if the update is something we should do or if it's problematic enough that we should hold back on it until we get some of the issues resolved (that also requires to understand what the issues are and engage with those upstream about getting them resolved) The best thing I would like to see is that we patch 3.6 g-c-c to have local layout state and try to push back to upstream. Is that the only thing missing in GNOME 3.6 keyboard handling from your perspective? The IBus indicator is a shame of Ubuntu, it is an ugly patch which contains no author information. Do you have a blueprint for new IBus indicator? Do you have a code repo for new IBus indicator? What's the issue with the IBus indicator? It's basically an equivalent of the upstream GtkStatusIcon as an Indicator. Is your comment based on the open bug that the icon fail to load in some cases for some users or do you know of other issues? We neither have a blueprint nor a code repository for the new indicator no ... reasons include that we are just starting looking at ibus 1.5 and that we lack people with enough knowledge about the domain to design a proper solution. Our first iteration would probably to keep following what ibus upstream is doing with their icon just using an indicator, that's assuming that the IBus upstream know enough about IBus and its users to come with an useful UI (if IBus upstream doesn't know how IBus is used we have other issues...) Sebastien Bacher -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 4:47 AM, Sebastien Bacher seb...@ubuntu.com wrote: Do you have a list of the features that are missing in the 1.5 update? Is that mostly the input method per win option? I will try to resume/continue the GNOME upstream discussion on the topic Yes, mostly the input method per win option. But also something related to layout handling, since the model is changed. Well, I don't either and we lack people in the team we do, still we need to maintain need so I'm trying to understand where we stand. I'm not using ibus but reading bugs and discussions from users and ibus maintainers in other distributions I got the feeling that 1.5 was a problematic version ... isn't that true? I use 1.4 now since I'm using Ubuntu. I saw three kinds of issues in upstream tracker (I guess I skimmed every open issue on that tracker): 1. Oops! The IM state become global. (We already discussing this.) 2. Oops! My layout setting is overwritten by IBus. ( This is due to the fact that the way of layout handing is changed, but there maybe some UI addition needed to make things more friendly. ) 3. Other random issues that is probably packaging issues. Right, we don't though, we lack people knowing it and we are stuck in trying to understand what change between ibus-1.4 and GNOME 3.4 and ibus-1.5 and GNOME 3.6 to see if the update is something we should do or if it's problematic enough that we should hold back on it until we get some of the issues resolved (that also requires to understand what the issues are and engage with those upstream about getting them resolved) Is AWASHIRO Ikuya's above mentioned commands sufficient enough to see what would be the final result? Is that the only thing missing in GNOME 3.6 keyboard handling from your perspective? Also: 1. Lack of IM switching OSD, GNOME people say 3.8 2. Filtering of available input methods: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-November/msg00091.html What's the issue with the IBus indicator? It's basically an equivalent of the upstream GtkStatusIcon as an Indicator. Is your comment based on the open bug that the icon fail to load in some cases for some users or do you know of other issues? No, they are not equivalent. You may check my videos, total length 7 minutes to see why they are different, the versions involved are vanilla 1.4.2 and Ubuntu 1.4.1, both in 12.10 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/45139465/vanilla-ibus.ogv http://dl.dropbox.com/u/45139465/ibus-indicator.ogv I will report/reuse a bug later. We neither have a blueprint nor a code repository for the new indicator no ... reasons include that we are just starting looking at ibus 1.5 and that we lack people with enough knowledge about the domain to design a proper solution. Our first iteration would probably to keep following what ibus upstream is doing with their icon just using an indicator, that's assuming that the IBus upstream know enough about IBus and its users to come with an useful UI (if IBus upstream doesn't know how IBus is used we have other issues...) You may check how 1.5 icon looks like in GNOME Shell by following picture. http://desktopi18n.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/gnome-shell-ibus-menu-20120216.png Probably we just whitelist it? -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Sebastien Bacher seb...@ubuntu.com wrote: I've been looking at the new ibus/g-s-d/g-c-c stack recently to update in raring and I'm not convinced it's a good idea to update to those. We have discussed the issue a bit on IRC today but I figured I would write an email to the list to document and share the thinking. What was the IRC channel? There seem to be several annoying issues with the new ibus/GNOME keyboard stack. The most annoying one is the drop of the Separate layout per window feature. That feature might come back at some point but it's not in GNOME 3.6 and still is on need for design upstream so we shouldn't hold on it for this cycle. The new ibus is having the same issue... Some pointers on discussion around those topics: * https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684210 - 'Separate layout per window' is missing upstream discussion on the feature being dropped Exactly. I probably want to try adding such feature back to IBus itself at certain point. But I have no confidence of persuading so-called GNOME design people, please help. * http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=692424 - the bug is about some ubuntu ibus packaging fixes but it turned into a discussion between the ibus maintainers about the new ibus version, they don't consider it ready for end users Be aware of the fact that Aron Xu and Jeremy Bicha don't use IBus. Sir Ubuntu, there is no free lunch. If you have specific design idea/blueprint that related to IBus, please use upstream channel to request or discuss. Note that no major distribution has been released yet with that new stack (Debian has it in experimental only and the Debian ibus maintainer seem to have issues with the new version, the OpenSuse maintainer seem to have concern about it as well and it's not decided if they will ship it for their next version due in march, fedora 18 will have it but it has been delayed to january) which means the new stack didn't get much of real world feedback yet, I don't think we should be in the first one to push it. Based on that it seems a safer bet to stay on the current ibus until we know better were things are going. Release of other distributions may not change anything. Fedora 17 comes with IBus 1.4.99 and users complain about global state issue. But we haven't found a workaround yet. Our options, if we stay on the current ibus, are: - stay on g-s-d/g-c-c 3.4 (the current version) - update g-s-d/g-c-c to 3.6 fully using the upstream code without building with ibus (they have a fallback mode without ibus integration), that's not going to restore the 'Separate layout per window' option but would avoid the ibus issues at least. We will need to update our keyboard indicator still if doing that - update g-s-d/g-c-c to 3.6 and revert the keyboard changes (e.g go back to the 3.4 codebase for the region panel and the g-s-d keyboard handling). If we do that we avoid the need to get the keyboard indicator this cycle There are good reasons to not keep delaying the g-s-d/g-c-c updates so I would try to avoid 1 and would suggest to start with 2 and see what issues we get from it and what we can build from there. We can then consider doing the extra work to add the missing bits then or go for 3 and revert the 3.6 keyboard change. Note that option 2 and 3 might have an impact on the replace language-selector by the region capplet work, especially if we go back to the 3.4 codebase on that panel, we might want to postpone that work for yet another cycle in that case... The best thing I would like to see is that we patch 3.6 g-c-c to have local layout state and try to push back to upstream. The IBus indicator is a shame of Ubuntu, it is an ugly patch which contains no author information. Do you have a blueprint for new IBus indicator? Do you have a code repo for new IBus indicator? -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/11/20/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t14:59 until 16:30 OK, I will try to stay there since now, not to miss such discussions. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-gnome-fallback I don't think work on porting the indicator patch to ibus 1.4.99 has really started yet. Seb was looking at it, which sparked this discussion. You need to be clear for this. If you even don't have a new design, let me try submitting a new blueprint. The blueprint you linked is a meta one. If you already have have a design, but no code work yet, let me try discussing with upstream and try coding it. I'm not trying to hijack your work. But if you really have limited expertise on input staff as history of IBus packages in Ubuntu already showed, you should make the process more open to community. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
On 21/11/12 07:13, Sebastien Bacher wrote: Hey, I've been looking at the new ibus/g-s-d/g-c-c stack recently to update in raring and I'm not convinced it's a good idea to update to those. We have discussed the issue a bit on IRC today but I figured I would write an email to the list to document and share the thinking. There seem to be several annoying issues with the new ibus/GNOME keyboard stack. The most annoying one is the drop of the Separate layout per window feature. That feature might come back at some point but it's not in GNOME 3.6 and still is on need for design upstream so we shouldn't hold on it for this cycle. The new ibus is having the same issue... Some pointers on discussion around those topics: * https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684210 - 'Separate layout per window' is missing upstream discussion on the feature being dropped * http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=692424 - the bug is about some ubuntu ibus packaging fixes but it turned into a discussion between the ibus maintainers about the new ibus version, they don't consider it ready for end users * https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2012-October/004014.html One discussion on the ibus topic we had early on this list Note that no major distribution has been released yet with that new stack (Debian has it in experimental only and the Debian ibus maintainer seem to have issues with the new version, the OpenSuse maintainer seem to have concern about it as well and it's not decided if they will ship it for their next version due in march, fedora 18 will have it but it has been delayed to january) which means the new stack didn't get much of real world feedback yet, I don't think we should be in the first one to push it. Based on that it seems a safer bet to stay on the current ibus until we know better were things are going. Our options, if we stay on the current ibus, are: - stay on g-s-d/g-c-c 3.4 (the current version) - update g-s-d/g-c-c to 3.6 fully using the upstream code without building with ibus (they have a fallback mode without ibus integration), that's not going to restore the 'Separate layout per window' option but would avoid the ibus issues at least. We will need to update our keyboard indicator still if doing that - update g-s-d/g-c-c to 3.6 and revert the keyboard changes (e.g go back to the 3.4 codebase for the region panel and the g-s-d keyboard handling). If we do that we avoid the need to get the keyboard indicator this cycle There are good reasons to not keep delaying the g-s-d/g-c-c updates so I would try to avoid 1 and would suggest to start with 2 and see what issues we get from it and what we can build from there. We can then consider doing the extra work to add the missing bits then or go for 3 and revert the 3.6 keyboard change. Note that option 2 and 3 might have an impact on the replace language-selector by the region capplet work, especially if we go back to the 3.4 codebase on that panel, we might want to postpone that work for yet another cycle in that case... That's my thinking on the topic ... comments are welcome as usual ;-) Cheers, Sebastien Bacher I think option 3 is our best bet if it's feasible to revert the ibus changes easily. This way we can solve all the other merging issues immediately and then move to 2 if we can get it working in time for release (my guess is this wont happen). --Robert -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
On 20 November 2012 16:59, Ma Xiaojun damage3...@gmail.com wrote: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-gnome-fallback I don't think work on porting the indicator patch to ibus 1.4.99 has really started yet. Seb was looking at it, which sparked this discussion. You need to be clear for this. If you even don't have a new design, let me try submitting a new blueprint. The blueprint you linked is a meta one. If you already have have a design, but no code work yet, let me try discussing with upstream and try coding it. I'm not trying to hijack your work. But if you really have limited expertise on input staff as history of IBus packages in Ubuntu already showed, you should make the process more open to community. I believe the design plan was basically that the indicator should do like what it did in Quantal…unless we can do it better. On the other hand, it sounds like Seb does not want ibus 1.4.99 in Ubuntu until we can figure out how to get separate layout per window working. Jeremy -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
Sorry for not repeating the list previously, jbicha. On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: I believe the design plan was basically that the indicator should do like what it did in Quantal…unless we can do it better. I repeat, current IBus indicator isn't working right because it makes Embedded in Menu unusable. Embedded in Menu is the default in current Ubuntu and confused many Ubuntu users already. And there is no language panel any more in IBus 1.4.99+ I guess. On the other hand, it sounds like Seb does not want ibus 1.4.99 in Ubuntu until we can figure out how to get separate layout per window working. Can you try convince GNOME people at least in design? https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684210 -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:47 PM, AWASHIRO Ikuya iku...@gmail.com wrote: $ sudo add-apt-repository ppa:jbicha/ibus $ sudo apt-get update;sudo apt-get upgrade $ gsettings set com.canonical.Unity.Panel systray-whitelist ['JavaEmbeddedFrame', 'Wine', 'Update-notifier', 'ibus'] $ gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.keyboard active false logout and re-login It looks good (not perfect) to me. You are not concerned with the global state issue? -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 23:55:56 -0600 Ma Xiaojun damage3...@gmail.com wrote: You are not concerned with the global state issue? I don't understand what is the problem well, IBus 1.4.99.20121006 still have Global input method settings. Thanks, -- AWASHIRO Ikuya ik...@fruitsbasket.info / ik...@oooug.jp / iku...@gmail.com GPG fingerprint: 1A19 AD66 C53F 2250 3537 1A9D 3A53 2C1D 20AB CC8A -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Update on the new ibus-1.5 and gnome-settings-daemon gnome-control-center 3.6 situation
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 12:20 AM, AWASHIRO Ikuya iku...@gmail.com wrote: I don't understand what is the problem well, IBus 1.4.99.20121006 still have Global input method settings. The problem is that it enforces global input source state now. In 1.4 it is configurable, you can have either local (per window / input context) or global state. I received issue report June this year for this. http://code.google.com/p/ibus/issues/detail?id=1477 -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
