Olá Matthew e a todos.
On Friday 13 February 2009 18:27:06 Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
I have no doubt that it could be solved if people put their minds to
it. System Monitor (or a process-specific buset) could reduce the
priority of your other programs whenever it is running, be special-cased
On 13/02/2009 Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
The fact is, many things are easier to fix afterwards.
Particularly because that's the only time you'll find people
motivated enough to bother about it. If you were to need to fix
everything before-the-fact, nothing fundamental would
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:24:32 +0100 Vincenzo Ciancia cian...@di.unipi.it
wrote:
I typically am the guy that persuades friends using linux that the new
*DEFAULT* choices ubuntu makes in every release are good even though
they look like evil. But this time I don't really have a justification.
Scott Kitterman ha scritto:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:24:32 +0100 Vincenzo Ciancia cian...@di.unipi.it
wrote:
I typically am the guy that persuades friends using linux that the new
*DEFAULT* choices ubuntu makes in every release are good even though
they look like evil. But this time I don't
Mario Vukelic ha scritto:
On Sat, 2009-02-14 at 16:18 +0100, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
I see, but did I miss the thread or why such big changes are not
publicized in early stages?
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty ?
Fine, I did not know. Will look at the blueprints for
Vincenzo Ciancia escreveu:
I see, but did I miss the thread or why such big changes are not
publicized in early stages? Announces of the planned changes or
something like that? Is there some web page I should monitor that will
explain the planned changes for jaunty+1? I may be just ignorant
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Vincenzo Ciancia cian...@di.unipi.it wrote:
Can someone tell me how will I protect myself from fake login screens in
multi-user ubuntu setups? Even my office machine is multi-user!
It took me a while to figure out what you meant by this, but yeah!
That's
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Remco remc...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Vincenzo Ciancia cian...@di.unipi.it wrote:
Can someone tell me how will I protect myself from fake login screens in
multi-user ubuntu setups? Even my office machine is multi-user!
It took me a
On Thu, 2009-02-12 at 20:16 -0500, Mike Jones wrote:
I have absolutely no desire to C-A-F#, find the program that is giving
me fits, and then kill it in the hopes it fixes my issue.
You rather lose your complete X session along with all data in open
files than switching to a virtual console and
Thomas Jaeger [2009-02-12 17:16 -0500]:
This is not a healthy discussion. We have people claiming that they
can't live without C-A-B
Nobody stops them from re-enabling it (to the contrary, there's a new
tool dontzap which makes this very easy). Please keep in mind that
we aren't discussing
2009/2/13 Martin Pitt martin.p...@ubuntu.com:
Thomas Jaeger [2009-02-12 17:16 -0500]:
This is not a healthy discussion. We have people claiming that they
can't live without C-A-B
Nobody stops them from re-enabling it (to the contrary, there's a new
tool dontzap which makes this very easy).
Fergal Daly wrote:
Anyway, I'm curious, is this really a developer list? I subscribed
because it was the only way to _contact_ ubuntu developers and I've
seen lots of people use it for that. So maybe it has more technical
users than the average but that's not the same thing as being a
of rebooting my machine or trying to find which
process is being an ass? Heck Yes.
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:45:57 +0100
From: Mario Vukelic mario.vuke...@dantian.org
Subject: Re: Fwd: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good
idea? - no.
To: u-d-d ubuntu-devel-discuss
This discussion is hardly relevant anymore. I agree the popup
explaining what the user is about to do would be a nice alternative,
but this is also a completely adequate solution.
I'm sure any patches for that alternative would have a good, warm and
fulfilling life.
Preferences? Fine; you can set
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Dylan McCall dylanmcc...@gmail.com wrote:
This discussion is hardly relevant anymore. I agree the popup
explaining what the user is about to do would be a nice alternative,
but this is also a completely adequate solution.
I'm sure any patches for that
On 13/02/2009 Dylan McCall wrote:
Too late to set preferences, it's already crashed? Any power user who
would have used Ctrl Alt Backspace probably had the sense to read the
Jaunty release notes, which will have said (and I for one will make
sure they say this) that that key combination is
I've been following this discussion, and it seems that some people have
been wanting some poll results. This might be of interest:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1040988
--Dane
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Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:30:38 +
From: Andrew Sayers andrew-ubuntu-de...@pileofstuff.org
Subject: Re: Fwd: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good
idea? - no.
To: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Message-ID: 49954bce.80...@pileofstuff.org
Content-Type
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Remco wrote on 12/02/09 22:33:
Every program that hangs but doesn't release grabs is a problem. You
could certainly implement some kind of solution to that, but only
after that solution is implemented, C-A-B or equivalents should be
disabled.
: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:31:27 -0800
From: Dylan McCall dylanmcc...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good
idea?
To: ubuntu-devel-discuss ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Message-ID:
9b6762c90902130831g12ca69efyb96a37c3df0f9...@mail.gmail.com
Martin Pitt wrote:
Thomas Jaeger [2009-02-12 17:16 -0500]:
This is not a healthy discussion. We have people claiming that they
can't live without C-A-B
Nobody stops them from re-enabling it (to the contrary, there's a new
tool dontzap which makes this very easy). Please keep in mind that
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
Remco wrote on 12/02/09 22:33:
Every program that hangs but doesn't release grabs is a problem. You
could certainly implement some kind of solution to that, but only
after that solution is implemented, C-A-B or equivalents should be
disabled. Not before.
The
Thomas,
Thank you for letting me know what additional information I needed to
provide. I will get it as soon as I have an opportunity. I really appreciate
the help.
As for the whole C-A-B issue... yes, honestly, dude, I wish that I never
had to use C-A-B. But I do. I report bugs when I'm
Mario,
I'm sorry if I appear to be bitching / whining. That wasn't my intention. If
you would like I can stop posting my thoughts. I didn't intend to cause
problems.
**Your problem, really.
I don't believe so. While the command line is reasonably simple to use
for me, as I have said in
it
to be necessary to my computing on a day to day basis.
MIchael Jones
Junior Software Engineering and Computer Science major
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 02:08:39 -0500
From: Thomas Jaeger thjae...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace
From what I understand, Ctrl-Alt-Backspace isn't the only way to kill X.
Alt-Sysrq-k also works, and is still enabled, as it is significantly less
likely to be hit by accident.
I don't really see what all the fuss is about? People who know what they're
doing can still kill X if necessary, and
On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:17:30 -0500 Evan eapa...@gmail.com wrote:
From what I understand, Ctrl-Alt-Backspace isn't the only way to kill X.
Alt-Sysrq-k also works, and is still enabled, as it is significantly less
likely to be hit by accident.
... for some definition of works and not on all
This is not a healthy discussion. We have people claiming that they
can't live without C-A-B, yet they're unable to come up with any
*concrete* situations where they need it. I don't doubt that these
issues exist, but my guess is that in most of those cases, C-A-B is the
wrong way to go about
Every program that hangs but doesn't release grabs is a problem. You
could certainly implement some kind of solution to that, but only
after that solution is implemented, C-A-B or equivalents should be
disabled. Not before.
Every program that makes the system so slow that it becomes unusable
is a
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Thomas Jaeger thjae...@gmail.com wrote:
This is not a healthy discussion. We have people claiming that they
can't live without C-A-B, yet they're unable to come up with any
*concrete* situations where they need it. I don't doubt that these
issues exist, but
Remco wrote:
Every program that hangs but doesn't release grabs is a problem. You
could certainly implement some kind of solution to that, but only
after that solution is implemented, C-A-B or equivalents should be
disabled. Not before.
I know that this is possible, but the question is how
This is not a healthy discussion. We have people claiming that they
can't live without C-A-B, yet they're unable to come up with any
*concrete* situations where they need it.
Compiz always crashes on me, and I need CAB to get back to something.
Yes, it is a workaround because of another bug,
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Thomas Jaeger thjae...@gmail.com wrote:
I know that this is possible, but the question is how common this
situation is.
Apparently it's pretty common, as some people use C-A-B every week. I
don't use it quite that much, but I don't want it to go away. You
don't
snipNo. What surprises me is when people are fine with those bugs
as
long
as there is a quick way to kill the X server that is enabled by default.
/snip
People do file bugs. Perhaps not everyone, and perhaps not every
time.
Well, then it shouldn't be too difficult to come up with a
habtool wrote:
More chats about it here:
http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2009/01/since-we-all-know-x-is-nowhere-near.html
I think it's quite telling that the people that have accepted X Server
freezes as a fact of life could point to a single bug report where such
an issue was
Client applications, and even X.org itself, will always have bugs.
They are created by humans, and we are not perfect. In that respect,
it is normal behaviour. So C-A-B will never become obsolete.
Things that can happen:
* Client can grab keys but hang.
* System can become too slow to be usable.
I can't really take these blanket statements seriously if you can't
point me to specific bug reports, sorry.
Remco wrote:
Client applications, and even X.org itself, will always have bugs.
They are created by humans, and we are not perfect. In that respect,
it is normal behaviour. So C-A-B
On 2/12/09, Thomas Jaeger thjae...@gmail.com wrote:
Things that can happen:
* Client can grab keys but hang.
In that case, you get the X Server back to normal by killing the client
and you should try and fix the client.
Killing the client actually prevents X from having any input; you lose
Thomas Jaeger wrote:
John Moser wrote:
On 2/12/09, Thomas Jaeger thjae...@gmail.com wrote:
Things that can happen:
* Client can grab keys but hang.
In that case, you get the X Server back to normal by killing the client
and you should try and fix the client.
Killing the client actually
John Moser wrote:
On 2/12/09, Thomas Jaeger thjae...@gmail.com wrote:
Things that can happen:
* Client can grab keys but hang.
In that case, you get the X Server back to normal by killing the client
and you should try and fix the client.
Killing the client actually prevents X from
John Moser wrote:
This is not how grabs work. If a client that has grabbed the
Keyboard/Pointer/Server is killed all grabs are automatically released.
Try this when qemu freezes. I've frequently had to C-A-F1, kill qemu,
then alt-F7 back and ... wow, nothing works. C-A-F1, DISPLAY=0:0
Yes, exactly. Just don't be surprised if someone says something happens
that shouldn't.
No. What surprises me is when people are fine with those bugs as long
as there is a quick way to kill the X server that is enabled by default.
Because they want to do the work, not report bugs -
-- Forwarded message --
From: Liam Zwitser liamzwit...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Subject: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good idea?
To: ubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com
Hello everyone,
In Jaunty alpha 3 you can´t use CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE to restart
On Friday 16 January 2009 15:58:23 Liam Zwitser wrote:
In Jaunty alpha 3 you can´t use CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE to restart the X-server
anymore. I know that some users complained about restarting the X-server,
but I see a lot more, including yours truly, complaining about the fact
that the shortcut
I agree with this guy, have it on by default, noobs can use GUI to switch it
off.
Else, millions of users will be doing this on first boot up:
alt f2
gksudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Section ServerFlags
Option DontZap no
EndSection
The important thing is that those millions of users
, but a powerful resource when
needed.
Sent via BlackBerry by ATT
-Original Message-
From: Dylan McCall dylanmcc...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:02:51
To: Clive Wagenaarclivewagen...@gmail.com
Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really
On Tuesday 10 February 2009 15:57:02 Justin M. Wray wrote:
Even if a new user is unfamiliar with the key combination, it only takes a
little education OR them doing it once. Lessons are learned hard.
Should we remove all the abilities that may damage the system?
Where does the line get
On Tuesday 10 February 2009 15:02:51 Dylan McCall wrote:
The important thing is that those millions of users actually don't
mind tinkering with xorg.conf and probably do anyway. The users we are
trying to help, however, Don't Know The Key Combo Exists, or that
xorg.conf exists, or that they
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 09:59, Clive Wagenaar clivewagen...@gmail.comwrote:
(It is a pity this is from upstream where Arch, fedora etc will all also
'dumbed down' too)
Is this true? If it is, then C-A-B should be left disabled.
--
hacker != cracker
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On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 17:42 -0600, Nergar -blank- wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 09:59, Clive Wagenaar
clivewagen...@gmail.com wrote:
(It is a pity this is from upstream where Arch, fedora etc
will all also
'dumbed down' too)
Is this true? If
On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 17:42 -0600, Nergar -blank- wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 09:59, Clive Wagenaar
clivewagen...@gmail.com wrote:
(It is a pity this is from upstream where Arch, fedora etc
will all also
'dumbed down' too)
Is this true? If
-Original Message-
From: Dylan McCall dylanmcc...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:02:51
To: Clive Wagenaarclivewagen...@gmail.com
Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Is disabling ctrl-alt-backspace really such a good idea?
I agree with this guy, have
On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 19:06 -0500, John Moser wrote:
The correct solution is not dead-simple to implement, but it works:
When you C-A-B, grab the whole screen and put up a confirmation dialog
like gksudo does. You can't switch desktops off it (CAB happens
sometimes while swapping around
On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 19:10 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote:
I don't particularly care for the deicision that was made, but it's
been
made, so there's little point rehashing it now.
Scott K
Cool,
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:37:49 -0500 John Moser john.r.mo...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com
wrote:
I don't particularly care for the deicision that was made, but it's been
made, so there's little point rehashing it now.
Fallacy. I don't
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:37:49 -0500 John Moser john.r.mo...@gmail.com
wrote:
This is engineering, not science. There is no single answer that is right
for everyone.
Engineering is science. How do you think engines
On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 19:06 -0500, John Moser wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Justin M. Wray
wray.justin.ubu...@gmail.com wrote:
Even if a new user is unfamiliar with the key combination, it only takes a
little education OR them doing it once. Lessons are learned hard.
This is
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:26:06 -0500 John Moser john.r.mo...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com
wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:37:49 -0500 John Moser john.r.mo...@gmail.com
wrote:
This is engineering, not science. There is no single answer
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Mackenzie Morgan maco...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 19:06 -0500, John Moser wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Justin M. Wray
wray.justin.ubu...@gmail.com wrote:
Even if a new user is unfamiliar with the key combination, it only takes a
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