Re: dependance typo problem with gcc-4.8-arm-linux-gnueabihf 4.8.1-10ubuntu6cross0.9

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 8 October 2013 22:57,   wrote:
> Today gcc-4.8-arm-linux-gnueabihf 4.8.x (and other gcc 4.8 for armhf) has
> has been updated to version 4.8.1-10ubuntu6cross0.9
>
> There is a dependency problem, probably due to a typo error, it depend on:
>
> dnlcpp-4.8-arm-linux-gnueabihf
>
> that doesn't exists, instead of:
>
> cpp-4.8-arm-linux-gnueabihf
>
> that exists...

I think it's getting fixed by
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.8/4.8.1-10ubuntu7

Please note it's best to file bugs on launchpad against packages,
instead of emailing the mailing list.
And also check recent uploads. It does take a while to build.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: 13.10 (Saucy Salamander) Beta 1 Released!

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 September 2013 15:05, Andreas Hasenack  wrote:
> I'm a bit confused, sorry
>
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Kate Stewart  wrote:
>>
>> Welcome to Saucy Salamander Beta 1 release, which will in time
>> become the 13.10 release.
>>
>
> Ok, Beta 1
>
>>
>> This alpha features images for Edubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu,
>> Ubuntu GNOME, UbuntuKylin, Ubuntu Studio and Xubuntu.
>>
>
> Alpha?
>
>>
>> change, the Ubuntu products themselves will not have a Beta 1 release.
>
>
> No Beta 1?
>

Similar to raring cycle, ubuntu desktop & server & core are not
participating / pushing out Beta 1 image.
To see which flavour participated see:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta1

>>
>> Their first milestone release will be the  beta release on the 26th of
>> September 2013. Other Ubuntu flavours have the option to release using
>
>
> Today is September 6th, so Beta 1 comes out in 20 days? What was released
> today?
>

Beta 1 came out on September the 5th.

On September the 26th "Final Beta" will published which is a mandatory
milestone for all official flavours.

This will be followed by one RC and the Final release.

Please see the details on the release schedule:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: country-level archive DNS changes

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 22 July 2013 16:34, Daniel J Blueman  wrote:
> What (who?) is the right mechanism to re-point a country-level Ubuntu
> archive DNS entry, after we have confirmed agreement from the hosting
> organisation?
>

Information about becoming country mirror is at:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mirrors

Including irc and email contact details, on the bottom of that page.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Encrypted-phone setting for ubuntu-touch?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 1 July 2013 16:22, Matt B.  wrote:
> Love the full-phone encryption option available on Android phones. I assume
> ubuntu-touch should have phone encryption option cause of its compatibility
> with the Desktop.
>

Please note, all Ubuntu Touch development discussion happens on
ubuntu-phone mailing list.
You can subscribe here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone

Android doesn't actually do full-disk encryption. Instead the userdata
partition is encrypted and applications/services that need access to
it are restarted after the volume is unlocked.

> Will Ubuntu-Touch offer users a full-phone-encryption setting when released
> that requires password at every startup/boot?
>

At the moment, initial Ubuntu Touch release might not have that
feature fully integrated but the kernel support to implement ecryptfs
and/or dm-crypt(LUKS) should be there.

Similarly to android, it is currently believed using ecryptfs to
encrypt all user data will offer sufficient privacy at a reasonable
performance.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: any plymouth ...

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 7 May 2013 01:55, Thomas Prost  wrote:
> Hello devels,
>
> I came here last month hoping to meet the maintainer(s) of plymouth 
> 0.8.2-2ubuntu2.
> Is there anybody there ... ?

All packages are collaboratively maintained by ubuntu developers,
including plymouth.
Simply pinging about a package will not usually generate many responses.
Instead simply ask what you actually want to ask straight away on this
mailing list.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: resize gpt ext4 partitions

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 30 April 2013 23:34, DimanNe  wrote:
> Is there any technique to resize gpt ext4 partition?
>
>
> The only one I found is something like this:
>
> 1 Run parted on your device: parted /dev/sdX
> 2 Change display unit to sectors: unit s
> 3 Print current partition table and note the start sector for your partition: 
> p
> 4 Delete your partition (won't delete the data or filesystem): rm 
> 5 Recreate the partition with the starting sector from above: mkpart primary 
>  
> 6 Exit parted: quit
>
>
> Is it really exclusive way to accomplish it?
>

All resizing is done in essentially the same way:
* when shrinking, inside one first
* when enlarging, outside one first

So for a simple gpt partition with ext4 do one of the following:
* shrink ext4 fs with resizefs, then shrink the partition
* enlarge the partition, then enlarge the ext4 fs

parted is one of many tools to do the job, but make sure you don't end
up with fs beyond the block-device/partition end.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Regarding manual partitioning on EFI systems

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 19 April 2013 11:59, Biswarup Ray  wrote:
> I recently installed 13.04 final beta(Gnome version) on my Efi enabled
> desktop. I selected "manual partitioning" option during installation. This
> being my first installation of an OS supporting Efi, I was not aware of the
> requirement of a separate EFI partition. The installer proceeded with the
> installation without indicating that there was any problem and the
> installation was otherwise correctly done except the Efi part. I discovered
> this problem only after when the system refused to boot. I then re-installed
> the whole system again after creating the EFI partition(I was not sure
> chroot would work).
>
> I am proposing that a warning system be included in the installer, which
> will warn users if the EFI partition is absent during installation.
>

Which image have you used? i386 or amd64?

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Aptitude installed by default on 13.10?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 9 April 2013 18:02, Brett Cornwall  wrote:
> On 04/09/2013 12:57 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>> If anything, it's aptitude which is less feature-rich =)
>> Space on the CD is still a reason for not including duplicate
>> functionality.
>
>
> What CD?
>

So all iso images generated and released have hard limits on their
size. For a long time the hard limit was of "what a standard CD-ROM
size is" which is ~700MB (+- bikesheding about unit sizes and how much
extra buffer is writable).
After extensive discussions the limit got raise a little to ~800MB for
Ubuntu Desktop, and some official flavours also followed suite
(Xubuntu ?!). I think Ubuntu Server and Lubuntu still have "CD" size
limit.

One can check size limits warnings on the ISO tracker, e.g.:
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds/41759/testcases

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Oversized user-desktop.svg files in ubuntu-mono-light and ubuntu-mono-light icon themes

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 10 April 2013 13:41, Augustine Souza  wrote:
> All these .svg files
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-light/places/16/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-light/places/48/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-light/places/64/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-light/places/32/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-light/places/128/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-light/places/24/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-light/places/22/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/places/16/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/places/48/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/places/64/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/places/32/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/places/128/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/places/24/user-desktop.svg
> /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-dark/places/22/user-desktop.svg
> have a size of 737.7 KiB. In other words, approx. 14x737 KiB (post-install).

Can you show the output of:

$ dpkg -S /usr/share/icons/ubuntu-mono-light/places/16/user-desktop.svg

to find out which package it came from?

E.g. on my system I do not have user-desktop.svg in above locations at all.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Aptitude installed by default on 13.10?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 9 April 2013 12:45, Brett Cornwall  wrote:
> On 04/09/2013 06:31 AM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
> 
>
>> Aptitude is a fairly niche and highly technical package.
>
> 
>
> I beg to differ:
>
> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkgtools.en.html
>
> Official Debian docs, section 8.1.3 - aptitude:
>
> "Note that aptitude is the preferred program for daily package management
> from console".
>

Sure, that's why aptitude is seeded on ubuntu-server images, is in
main and supported.

> Dismissing this as a 'niche' tool hardly counts.
>

Maybe I was not very explicit - all console applications are "niche"
on the Ubuntu (gui) Desktop. And vice versa, gui-desktop applications
are nice on the Ubuntu (console) Server.

We have aptitude seeded where console is the default interface.

On ubuntu-desktop the default interface is unity with preferred
package management using:
- dash application scope
- software updater
- software center

Depending on the use-case/goal one uses one or combination of above.

> AFAIR, Debian was even trying to discourage usage of apt-get in the day in
> favor of aptitude before Ubuntu decided to drop aptitude in 10.10.
>

On Ubuntu Desktop we want to discourage usage of command line =) as
there is no need for that for non-developers.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Aptitude installed by default on 13.10?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 8 April 2013 17:46, Brett Cornwall  wrote:
> In revisions past, Ubuntu's CDs did not have enough space to accommodate
> aptitude and apt-get. Now that we have moved on to DVDs I feel it would be a
> worthy investment to include aptitude by default, especially since it is
> Debian's 'proper' package management tool.
>

We did not move to DVDs, but to a 800MB limit. Aptitude is a fairly
niche and highly technical package. People who know/want to use
aptitude  are also sufficiently advanced to install it manually.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Help needed for official builders

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 9 April 2013 09:58, Gianfranco Costamagna
 wrote:
> Hi developers, I'm posting here a launchpad question, I hope you could help
> me in solve it.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/226103
>

File a bug with a patch / debdiff attached and subscribe Ubuntu
Sponsors and one of the patch pilots who have access to armhf hardware
will sponsor it.
As it happens I have armhf (nexus7) which can do a test build and I am
a patch pilot today ;-)

I'll see if I can do a test build today.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Ubuntu Manpage Repository need some love

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 2 April 2013 13:06, Ma Xiaojun  wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas  
> wrote:
>> 
>
> I noticed this bug already.
>

It would help branching manpages repository, trying to run it locally
/ find out what needs to be done server side to "scan" quantal and
raring.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: How is app information in Ubuntu Software Center maintained?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 18 March 2013 17:25, Ma Xiaojun  wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:42 AM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs
>  wrote:
>> In practice this means that application should ship the .desktop file
>> and the icon in the main arch:any package where the main executable
>> is.
>
> Sometimes the software is split into several packages and the meta

I know. I simply described the most generic case / standard rule. I'm
sure we have plenty of exceptions and cases where we do want to
advertise packages even if they are not executable at all and don't
have .desktop files. And vice versa, where we need & have .desktop
files, but do not want to explicitly enlist them in USC.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

> package that would be used in CLI case doesn't contain a desktop file.
> For example, USC advertise "eclipse-platform" as "Eclipse" while
> people would use "s a-g i eclipse"
> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/eclipse-platform/
>
> I'm not sure whether USC install suggests packages. If it installs
> suggests package then there is no problem with "Eclipse" since there
> is some sort of circular dependency.
>
>> It should not, ship extra/pointless .desktop files, or mark them to be
>> ignored by USC archive-scanner.
>
> Do you think "Browse C: Drive" is pointless for Wine?
> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/wine1.4/
> Or "IBus Hangul Preferences" is pointless for Hangul engine of IBus?
> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/ibus-hangul/
>
> Extra .desktop files is due to sometimes DE specific .desktop files are used?
> As this the case for Synaptics.
>
> How to "mark them to be ignored by USC archive-scanner", is it documented?
> I hope such information available nicely in
> http://developer.ubuntu.com/ while I understand such information can
> also be figured by checking archive-scanner's source code :)
>
>> The conf file in the scanner is a point of last resort to fix up
>> things last minute.
>> Ideally updated / corrected desktop files should be in the packages themself.
> Sure.

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Re: How is app information in Ubuntu Software Center maintained?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 18 March 2013 16:25, Ma Xiaojun  wrote:
> I guess many app-install-data-ubuntu related bug can be fixed by tweaking
> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~j-johan-edwards/archive-index/app-install/files/head:/config/
>
> On the other hand, can packagers of particular software fix such bug
> on by themselves?
> Since they should have better idea how the software should be shown in USC.
>
> I do see 
> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/app-install-data-ubuntu/ubuntu/view/head:/README
> It seems like we can tweak the .desktop files in packages to change
> how the software is shown in USC.
>
> However, the information is not complete.
> And ousider have no idea when the app-install-data-ubuntu would be 
> regenerated.

app-install-data-ubuntu is generated by downloading debs from the
archive and yanking .desktop file out of them & the icon.
In practice this means that application should ship the .desktop file
and the icon in the main arch:any package where the main executable
is.
It should not, ship extra/pointless .desktop files, or mark them to be
ignored by USC archive-scanner.
The conf file in the scanner is a point of last resort to fix up
things last minute.
Ideally updated / corrected desktop files should be in the packages themself.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: How is app information in Ubuntu Software Center maintained?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 18 March 2013 15:35, Ma Xiaojun  wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas  
> wrote:
>> Yes, the same way you would fix any other bug in Ubuntu.
>
> No, the branch of app-install-data contains GENERATED data.
> I cannot find the source of origin data and/or generation script.
>

Indeed the archive extractor code is in http://pad.lv/c/archive-index

I'm planning to run it before wednesday and upload it.
I will try to fix up as many reported bugs as possible (it has been a
while since we tweaked it).
I will consider to adding it to a bi-monthly landing for dev-releases
in the future though.

I don't know if myapps repositories need a similar update or not.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Why there are many discussions in ubuntu-devel recently but not here?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 8 March 2013 00:42, Ma Xiaojun  wrote:
> As title.

ubuntu-devel is open to post by ~ubuntu-developers, or moderated if
posted by others.
ubuntu-devel-discuss is open to post by anyone.

Typically ubuntu-devel is usually more technical.
Recently ubuntu developers started to discuss a lot of project wide
changes that affect all developers hence the increase of discussions
on that mailing list.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: ureadahead

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 4 March 2013 21:29, Phillip Susi  wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 3/4/2013 2:58 PM, Bryan Fullerton wrote:
>> However, in the process of this I couldn't help but notice that
>> ureadahead seems fairly abandoned, even though it's still shipping
>> with most (all?) versions of Ubuntu. The main project on LP hasn't
>> been updated in almost three years, and even the Ubuntu branches
>> only have bare minimum of updates.
>>
>> So... questions.
>>
>> Is the intention to keep ureadahead in the base Ubuntu OS for the
>> foreseeable future?
>>
>> If yes, should changes to the base functionality (which arguably
>> all the changes I've made are) be pushed back up to the main
>> ureadahead LP project, or just done in Ubuntu release branches?
>>
>> And in either case, who is the maintainer now for the main LP
>> project and Ubuntu branches?
>
> The maintainer for the project is still Scott James Remnant, who no
> longer works for Canonical, so doesn't seem to be working on it any
> more.  Seeing as how there have been merge requests pending since
> 2010, we probably need to have someone else take it over over.
>

I am quite happy to review ureadahead bugfixes & improvements.
I'll try to go over the pending merge proposals on both upstream and
ubuntu branches.
If there is anything specific you are after, just reply in private to
me and I'll prioritise it.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: kexec and Grub

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 10 February 2013 23:52, John Moser  wrote:
> On 02/10/2013 06:22 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it might be mine or someone else's.  There's an ANCIENT spec for
>> "RapidReboot"
>>
>> Nah, I was thinking about more recent stuff which is exactly what's
>> proposed in the quickly reboot.
>>
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SessionHandling#Restart
>>
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartupSettings
>
>
> I wish I could un-see that second one.  I'm completely baffled as to what
> "startup software" is (I'd imagine that would be the bootloader, kernel,

Hehe. I believe the original goal was to provide an easy way to
customise grub and/or restore default grub settings.
We have way to many reports of people modifying grub config and
copy&pasting “ ” from blogs instead of " " which breaks boot.
This is a way to address this with simple way to choose what to boot,
whether to show choices during the boot and select what to boot into
next.

I see your point that it will not magically fix all possible startup
problems within the whole stack =)

But the reboot popup fixes would be nice ;-)

Cheers,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: kexec and Grub

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 8 February 2013 23:23, John Moser  wrote:
> On 02/08/2013 02:27 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>>
>> On 8 February 2013 10:04, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Nice... Now can you tell grub to boot entry 1, 3, 7, etc?  Read an
>>>> alternate grub.conf?
>>>>
>>>> Rapid reboot :)
>>>
>>> Yes, you can, with "grub-reboot" command. You should probably team up
>>> with the script kitties behind Unity Reboot
>>>
>>> (http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/unity-reboot-launcher-to-quickly-reboot.html)
>>> and implement a faster reboot sequence. I believe it would be
>>> beneficial for both parties.
>>>
>> Wait a second. There is a whole plan and design to integrated "Reboot
>> into" in the g-s-d panel and the reboot popup.
>
>
> Yes, it might be mine or someone else's.  There's an ANCIENT spec for
> "RapidReboot"
>

Nah, I was thinking about more recent stuff which is exactly what's
proposed in the quickly reboot.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SessionHandling#Restart

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartupSettings

Although later deals with grub customisation bugs as well.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: kexec and Grub

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 8 February 2013 10:04, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
 wrote:
>> Nice... Now can you tell grub to boot entry 1, 3, 7, etc?  Read an alternate 
>> grub.conf?
>>
>> Rapid reboot :)
>
> Yes, you can, with "grub-reboot" command. You should probably team up
> with the script kitties behind Unity Reboot
> (http://www.webupd8.org/2013/01/unity-reboot-launcher-to-quickly-reboot.html)
> and implement a faster reboot sequence. I believe it would be
> beneficial for both parties.
>

Wait a second. There is a whole plan and design to integrated "Reboot
into" in the g-s-d panel and the reboot popup.

We want this in ubuntu as well =)

Mpt, can you point where the designs are? Since technically the
utility exists and prof of concept it should be quick to integrate.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Showing rebooting notifications in lightdm / unity greeter

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 7 February 2013 18:24, Alec Warner  wrote:
> We use the reboot-required file and the freedesktop notification
> framework to notify users that they should reboot.
>
> Users have requested that we show a notice at login time (before they
> login and start working.) Does anyone know if such a notification is
> feasible in the Greeter interface?
>

Notifications do work during greeter (at least in quantal and up)
E.g. network indicator can show connected/not-connected bubble.

I do wonder if one can add a custom indicator indicating that restart
is required. Or have the system cog go read and say restart required
there.

I guess somebody on unity-design mailing list might know better than me.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: APT and dpkg Translations

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 29 January 2013 10:00, Volkan Gezer  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Should APT and DPKG translations be done from Debian or Launchpad?
>

In Ubuntu it's part of the language packs.
Debian is upstream.
Translating in Debian will take significant amount of time to
propagate into Ubuntu.
I'm not sure if we have or have not Ubuntu specific strings in
dpkg/apt, but it is quite lickely.

Do it in Launchpad and submit to Debian as well, if same strings are
missing there.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Ubuntu.com Download Page

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 25 January 2013 14:34, Volkan Gezer  wrote:
> I think most people don't know that Kubuntu, Lubuntu and Xubuntu
> versions are officially supported by Ubuntu.
>

This statement is an oxymoron. Ubuntu is officially supported by
Canonical. Kubuntu is officially supported by Blue Systems.
All of them share common hosting / development infrastructure
sponsored by Canonical.

> I highly suggest you telling in download page something like that:
>
>
> "Ubuntu is using Unity desktop environment.
>
> We also have official distributions for KDE, XCFE  environments too..."
>

That would be confusing.

> to give a link to other official Ubuntu distros. You can also add a
> page which users can reach in one click to these distributions and
> comparison.

We already have this link about derivatives:

http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/derivatives

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: ubuntu android mobile use Bionic or glibc

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 15 January 2013 11:02, naveen yadav  wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I am checking http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone link,
>
> I need below clarification.
> 1. ubuntu using glibc or bionic.
> 2. Is it possible to simulate on X86.
> 3. from where we can get environment ( Kernel, toolchain ,SDK)
>

All currently available public information is available here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone

Toolkit and SDK are here: http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/

Kernel/phone images are not released yet.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: The cloud directory name "Ubuntu One" has a space in it....

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 26 December 2012 19:04, Paul Smith  wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-12-26 at 18:09 +0200, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>> On 26 December 2012 16:52, Fredrik Öhrström  wrote:
>> > this causes problems when I try to use the directory for my source code
>> > projects that use make or when I put configuration files for dosemu in 
>> > there,
>> > or a thousand other situations, when spaces in directory names cause
>> > problems
>>
>> Exactly what is broken? It's 2012 surely software must be able to deal
>> with " " in file names / paths.
>> Maybe we can fix the broken piece instead?
>
> The "make" program, as defined by POSIX and implemented by every UNIX
> system since the 1970's, cannot support pathnames containing whitespace.
> The format of makefiles is fundamentally word-based with whitespace
> separators and there is no syntax supporting escaping of special
> characters.
>
> Changing this is quite a significant amount of work (it's not just
> introducing an escape character: make uses a "lazy evaluation" scheme
> for its makefiles which means all the internals of the implementation
> would need to change as well, not just the front-end makefile parser),
> and would violate standards and force makefiles to be non-portable to
> any other implementation of "make".
>
> I'm not taking any position on what the cloud directory name for "Ubuntu
> One" should be.  I'm just stating facts related to using "make".
>

Sure, but why would one put makefile projects into Ubuntu One folder?
With no real conflict resolution (e.g. like in bzr or git) & I am not
sure if timestamps are preserved. Also uploading and downloading
binary objects doesn't quite make sense to me either (above implies
that make is run & stuff is compiled).

Use bzr?!

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: The cloud directory name "Ubuntu One" has a space in it....

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 26 December 2012 16:52, Fredrik Öhrström  wrote:
> this causes problems when I try to use the directory for my source code
> projects that use make or when I put configuration files for dosemu in there,
> or a thousand other situations, when spaces in directory names cause
> problems
>

Exactly what is broken? It's 2012 surely software must be able to deal
with " " in file names / paths.
Maybe we can fix the broken piece instead?

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Misc problems with quantal

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 18 December 2012 20:18, Dale Amon  wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 12:53:46AM +0000, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>> On 18 December 2012 00:37, Dale Amon  wrote:
>> > A couple broken items in quantal...
>> >
>> > First off, I also have been bit by the dselect
>> > problem discussed in
>> >
>> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/1066847
>> >
>> > I always use dselect unless I am only installing one or two
>> > packages. I just do not particularly like aptitude, etc.
>> >
>>
>> As noted in the bug report dselect does not work with multi-arch.
>>
>> Either write patches to dselect to make it support multi-arch, or
>> disable multi-arch, or use a different package management tool.
>> Each of these proposals has advantages & drawbacks. The first one is
>> universally best, but requires significant technical work. The latter
>> two, are compromises one way or another.
>
> How and where do I disable multi-arch?

Depending on which release you are on, use either first or second answer:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/66875/how-to-disable-multiarch-support

Please use google first next time.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Misc problems with quantal

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 18 December 2012 00:37, Dale Amon  wrote:
> A couple broken items in quantal...
>
> First off, I also have been bit by the dselect
> problem discussed in
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/1066847
>
> I always use dselect unless I am only installing one or two
> packages. I just do not particularly like aptitude, etc.
>

As noted in the bug report dselect does not work with multi-arch.

Either write patches to dselect to make it support multi-arch, or
disable multi-arch, or use a different package management tool.
Each of these proposals has advantages & drawbacks. The first one is
universally best, but requires significant technical work. The latter
two, are compromises one way or another.

> Second, I am getting hit with a blinking screen even in
> virtual terminals on a quantal amd64 server build. Terminal
> is an ADI ProVista attached to a KVM.
>

Sorry, can't help you here. File a bug maybe?

> Eventually the screen seems to go to sleep and I cannot
> get it to ever come back.
>
> I have modified /etc/default/grub to get
>
> # Uncomment to disable graphical terminal (grub-pc only)
> GRUB_TERMINAL=console
>
> which I assumed would shut off any graphical silliness,
> but it seems to have had no affect.
>

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Possible inclusion of zram-config on default install

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 7 December 2012 22:32, Fabio Pedretti  wrote:
> It would be nice if Ubuntu could include zram-config by default. This package
> set up compressed RAM swap space and can lower RAM requirements for running 
> and
> installing Ubuntu. It should be a win for every configuration. Since kernel 
> 3.8
> the zram module is out of staging, I am using it since precise with no 
> problem.
>
> The bug request is here:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zram-config/+bug/381059
>

Where necessaries, we already ship and include zram.

E.g. ubuntu nexus7 and ac100 images.

What other images do you want this for? I am not convinced it makes
much sense on i386/amd64.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: non-free software in Ubuntu

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 5 December 2012 10:26, Enrico Weigelt  wrote:
>
>> > Could those packages be candidates for the multiverse section ?
>>
>> Yes, but IANAL. Your license needs to allow distribution.
>
> Of course.
>
> We havent't decided on the exact terms yet. Our goal is:
>
> a) allow distros to redistribute the binary packages AS-IS
>(for now just .deb's, maybe .rpm and other will follow)
> b) deny integrators to repackage and essentially sell it as their own,
>(these parties should have explicit contracts with us)
> c) free-of-charge for small companies, personal or educational use
>

It's best for these packages to be self-hosted on the web-servers you control.
It is very easy to setup apt & rpm repositories.
Note that OpenERP installations & paths vary widely between
installations and one deb/rpm will not fit all.
Launchpad & Ubuntu archive(s) components accept source uploads only
which may or may not fit your distribution model.

Regards,

Ubuntu Core Developer
Dmitrijs.

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Re: Whole disk encryption

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 4 December 2012 05:43, Dale Amon  wrote:
> Just did a test drive on Quantal, tried several different
> types of build. However the one thing I could not figure
> out was how to get multiple partitions on the encrypted
> disk. It does not seem to want to allow me to specify the
> size of the / partition either to allow me to build a
> separately keyed LUKS partition for other uses or to do
> so via LVM.
>
> Did I miss something in the install menu's? It does not seem
> like an unusual requirement.
>

Inherently LUKS does not have a "partition table" so you either create
multiple luks partitions (each with an encryption key) or use lvm on
top of LUKS. You did not miss anything.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Installation of Ubuntu Core on Virtual Machine

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 1 December 2012 07:19, Saqlain Abbas  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I want to create a custom Ubuntu Distro and want to start with Ubuntu core,
> i have gone through below links...
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core/InstallationExample
>
> My question is is it possible to create Ubuntu core while in Virtual Machine
> (my host machine is Ubuntu 12.04), i later on also want to test it on VM
> i.e. creating ISO... I am new to distribution creating kindly guide me...
>

Ubuntu Core is meant to be installed on-to target machine and then
directly booted.

If you want to boot in the VM, that means you should create a
virtual-disk (depending on which VM you use it can be a plain img,
qcow files, vdx etc), loop-mount that and follow the Ubuntu Core
instructions with "target disk" being the loop-mounted virtual disk.
Eventually you will setup a VM to use that virtual disk to boot ubuntu
core.

You may be also interested in these wiki pages:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization

As well as live-build & debian-cd software packages.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: pbuilder performance

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 17 November 2012 18:33, Enrico Weigelt  wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm regularily building quite huge packages with large dependencies,
> eg. libreoffice, using git-buildpackage. And it's really slow.
>
> Is there any way for speeding up the builds ?
>
> I'm already using cowbuilder, but it only seems to be able to use
> an existing base system tree, while still needs installing all
> the dependencies one by one.
>
> Is it possible to do some similar logic with dependencies ?
> (something like an tweaked dpkg that fetches everything from
> per-package directories instead *.dpkg files and just hardlink
> instead of copying) ?
>

* use eatmydata
* use local caching proxy (apt-cacher-ng)

eatmydata - reduces IO by faking fsync which speeds up dpkg install a
lot (note this may result in e.g. test-suite failures which rely on
fsync)

apt-cacher-ng starts a local proxy on your machine, which can be used
as an apt-proxy or even as a "full" mirror, if it doesn't have
packages cached it simply gets them over the network. For a common set
of regular builds that greatly speeds up things.

use sbuild, it's faster. there is a handy mk-sbuild utility in
ubuntu-dev-tools that can create schroots for you (it even has a handy
eatmydata option).

you either want a clean environment, or you don't ;-) so you do have
to pay for a clean room.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: gfortran-4.6 dependency problems

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 2 November 2012 21:45, JC Lawrence  wrote:
> The current version of gfortran in 12.0 LTS depends on gfortran-4.6, which in 
> turn depends on GCC-4.6 (=, not >=), which can't be satisfied as the only GCC 
> release in 12.0 is 4.6.1-2.  Is this likely to be resolved soon?  I need 
> gfortran and am having the very devil of a time building GCC and thus 
> gfortran from sources (arghh!).
>
> # apt-get install gfortran

Can you show the output of:

$ apt-cache policy gfortran

?

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: Is Gtk+ version 3.6 missing patches from upstream?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 25 October 2012 17:43, Didier Roche  wrote:
> Le 25/10/2012 18:25, Lanoxx a écrit :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I was rather surprised today to see that the GTK+3 version 3.6 that is
>> currently shipped with Ubuntu does not actually match the version 3.6
>> that was released by Gnome a few weeks ago.
>>
>> For example this particular patch seems not to have made it into Ubuntu
>> 12.10:
>>
>>
>> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-3-6&id=4c67e71c63aca1770a6a486c30653f831a0191bd
>>
>> So either I did a mistake and looked at the wrong source in Ubuntu [1]
>> or for some reason this commit was not synced properly from upstream.
>> Could anyone clarify this please?
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> Lanoxx
>>
>> [1]
>> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/quantal/gtk+3.0/quantal
>>
>
> It seems the auto branch importer is broken and the last uploads were not
> imported. We have newer versions of gtk+3.0 than the one you are seeing
> here. The real code that is available through apt-get source 
> if you enable the deb-src repositories.

Or you can use pull-lp-source. Also always check debian/changlog to
make sure you are viewing what you think you are viewing.

Regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: redmine packaging

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 23/10/12 22:27, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> we have packaged redmine (1.4.* line) and lots of
> plugins for Ubuntu, and contihously improving it.
> (will mirror everything to github in next days)
> 
> Anybody interested in getting it into Ubuntu mainline ?
> 
> Our dep repo:
> 
> http://packages.vnc.biz/vnc-ubuntu-precise/
> 
> Experimental repo:
> 
> http://packages.vnc.biz/redmine-testing/
> cu
> 

Based on
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/redmine

And:
http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=redmine

I can say that 12.10 and Raring Ringtail, and Debian Wheezy already have
redmine 1.4 and some plugins that go with it.

I recommend you to send your improvements and additional packaged
redmine plugins to Debian, as that is where Ubuntu gets it from.

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Re: Are UI developers all left handed?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 08/08/12 23:49, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 08, 2012 02:35:00 PM Felix Miata wrote:
>> On 2012/08/08 12:16 (GMT-0400) Phillip Susi composed:
>>> Felix Miata wrote:
  You're under 40, right? Under 30 too? 20?
>>>
>>> 33 actually, though I don't see what that has to do with the price of
>>> tea in China.
>>
>> Sadly obvious. If you've not studiously watched people over 50 or 80 try to
>> use a computer you should. Then you should be able to discover some
>> important realities about UI usability.
>>
  We all must navigate to a clicking point before clicking. You seem
  to be assuming moving a mouse pointer is always easy. It isn't. Put
  on your carpal tunnel or arthritis gloves and try it. Even just
  using the wrong hand might give you some idea. Maybe the Windows 8
  devs have discovered what the OP is getting at.
>>>
>>> I am not aware of CTS or arthritis having a bias towards one side or
>>> the other.  I assume only that whether you must move to the left or
>>> the right, either is equally hard or easy.
>>
>> A natural proclivity on grasping it to send the pointer away from most
>> likely targets is unhelpful, and even more so when CTS or arthritis makes
>> every mouse movement difficult. According to the OP, toward upper right is
>> the natural proclivity of a right-hander, while toward upper left is the
>> natural proclivity of a left-hander, making natural proclivity helpful to
>> left-handers and detrimental to right-handers who use Unity and Gnome Shell.
>> My point is it is even more detrimental for those for whom mouse movement
>> is difficult.
> 
> Speaking as an almost 50, left-handed-but-got-forced-to-start-right-handed-
> with-mice-because-that-is-how-the-worked-back-then, occasional RSI sufferer 
> who 
> now switches the mouse from one side to the other as needed when the RSI 
> starts to act up ...
> 
> I've never felt like the U/I design of any computer was left handed or right 
> handed.  The LTR aspects of the design work because of the sequence people 
> read in.  It should be (and I thought was) reversed in RTL languages.
> 
> Being someone with a reasonable amount of experience using a mouse with both 
> hands, I can't say I've ever noticed a difference other than it takes a bit 
> of 
> getting used to whenever I switch.
> 
> On the KDE plasma-netbook interface you can switch windows either by hitting 
> the upper left corner or clicking on the right most widget on the panel 
> (which 
> is at the top).  In that case, where I could do equivalent actions either 
> way, 
> I found myself going to the top right, even though it was slightly harder 
> (requires a click) because that was how I started doing it.
> 
> My conclusion is that this is most a matter of habit and experience and none 
> of us can generalize from our individual experiences about what is intuitive. 
>  
> The only way to discover that is find someone who's never used a computer 
> before.  For people with any experience at all, they work best with something 
> like what they've used before.
> 
> Scott K
> 

Speaking as an almost 24, right-handed, snowboarding leading leg regular
(left). Worked a lot with poor laptop keyboards and touchpads, started
to feel wrist pain and now switched to Microsoft Ergonomic Desktop 7000
wireless keyboard and mouse. With regards to hand position the mouse is
semi-vertical, that is my wrist is holding the mouse as if I am about to
shake somebody's hand.

I have been using ubuntu netbook remix, through early unity and still
using unity with quantal. If I grab the mouse from default location, the
pointer may move slightly upwards or not at all. (gotta love the heavy
ergonomic mouse).

I agree that movement to the right is more impulsive (faster), while
movement to the left requires a decision (slower). But to me this is
organisation bias, rather than LTR / RTF issue per se.

Things I do quickly/impulsively and on the right:
- start / stop music
- change wifi hot spots
- logout, suspend, shutdown

Things I do on the left:
- I keep my dash always visible, medium size and I only have 8
applications on it, so i often switch between them by clicking on it.
Other times I use alt-tab alt-` (switching between windows of the same
app). All apps are always maximized. I rarely close apps.
- some toolbar buttons like 1 or 2 in a couple applications.
- I didn't use menus much, and now that they are hidden I use them even less

Things I do on the keyboard:
- Everything else (I am an emacs user/lover as well)

It would be interested to do a mirror test (switch everything LTR to
RTL). My gut feeling after a dip of productivity, I will be back to same
speed. I cannot afford a productivity dip, so I will not test this. I am
not sure how to do a double blind test, cause self-reported results can
be easily spoofed/faked.

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Re: mdadm bugs 946758 and 946344

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 04/07/12 10:23, Robie Basak wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 08:57:15PM +1200, Tim Frost wrote:
>> Now that I can see activity and comments for both bug reports, I see
>> that apport-retrace has changed the summary in bug 946758, although the
>> crash reports on the affected systems that I run show the same
>> information as in bug 946344.
>>
>> What is the best forum for discussing these specific bugs?  And, as an
>> affected user, how can I assist in working to identify cause, and/or
>> possible fixes [the affected systems are my work desktop, and my main
>> home system, so I don't want to put alpha code on either of them]? 
> 
> I browsed the bug and from looking at the stack trace the problem seemed
> obvious, so I investigated and have posted a fix. It's now in the
> sponsorship queue so somebody will review it in the next week or two.
> 
> The bug doesn't exist in Quantal as it has already been fixed upstream.
> It only affects Precise.
> 
> If this is to get fixed in Precise, the hardest part is to get the fix
> tested carefully to ensure that it doesn't cause regressions. Assuming
> that the fix is accepted for Precise, it'll enter precise-proposed and
> there will be a call for testing in the bug. If you can follow the bug
> and test the proposed package when it is announced, then this would be
> great. If nobody can test a proposed fix, then it is unlikely to go in,
> and your only option will be to upgrade to the next release when it
> comes out.
> 
> Robie
> 

Please note, that I had an mdadm SRU targeting precise, but it got
rejected on a couple of technical points. I will integrate your debdiff
into that one, and reupload.

see details at:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/mdadm/+bug/1009973

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Re: Private bugs - mdadm

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 02/07/12 12:25, Tim Frost wrote:
> I am one of a number of people affected by an apparent bug in mdadm.
> The official master bug in launchpad is marked as private - #946758
> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/946758 for those who have access to
> it).  My best reference (which I have subscribed to) is #946344
> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mdadm/+bug/946344 ) and there
> is a message associated with that bug as follows:
> 
>   Remember, this bug report is a duplicate of a private bug.
>Comment here only if you think the duplicate status is wrong. 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I an tell, this bug has been around for a year, affecting
> people who use RAID, but have some partitions (in my case, it is swap
> partitions) that are not managed by the raid subsystem.
> 
> How can I (and other affected people) track progress [or update the
> master bug report with useful information/patches/...] if the master bug
> is private? 
> 
> I know that there are reasons for protecting sensitive data, but there
> should be a way of creating a master bug record in Launchpad that has
> the data needed to track the issue, without exposing any sensitive data.
> 

Automatically filed bugs via apport are all initially marked as private.
Ubuntu BugSquad works on the bugs and trianges / makes them public if
there is no sensitive data in the bug report and the automatically
attached files.

I have checked the attachments on the bug, and there doesn't seem to be
anything private (apart from hostnames, user names & mount points).

I therefore have now marked the bug public.

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Re: OOo and LibO

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

Hello

On 10 February 2011 13:41, "Prof. Román H. Gelbort"
 wrote:
> Hi folks.
>
> I'm an Ubuntu user and supporter for years, in Argentina. And I'm the
> marketing contact of OpenOffice.org in my country too.
>
> Now, with the becoming of LibO to Ubuntu... ¿Is there the possibility
> that OpenOffice.org (vanilla) is in Ubuntu repository?
>

This has been previously discussed. A vanilla version of
OpenOffice.org was never quite part of Ubuntu. We had OO.o + Novell's
Go-OO patches + something else. Ubuntu did used to ship with "Sun" and
later with "Oracle" logos on the splash screen though, despite not
shipping "vanilla" OpenOffice.org.

OpenOffice.org is a huge application which requires a lot of work to
maintain. And most likely will not happen due to technical, governance
and social reasoning being in favour of LibreOffice.

Have you considered joining the Document Foundation and do marketing for both?

> Note: Forgive my poor English. I try to ask this very kindly.
>

Your English is great =)

> Best regards.
>

Regards.

> --
> ··
> Prof. Román H. Gelbort
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Re: Maverick Alpha3 +nvidia-96 +updates

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2010-August/000744.html

On 12 August 2010 04:43, NoOp  wrote:
> Loaded up Maverick Alpha3 a simple test 32bit machine (Intel Motherboard
> 1Ghz/348Mb) with an nVidia NV25GL [Quadro4 900 XGL] card. All working
> well; get notification for a driver is available (nvidia-96), install
> the driver via jockey, reboot, got to
> System|Preferences|Appearance|Visual Effects|click 'Extra' & compiz
> works (well for a change) with wobbly windows & all. Packages installed are:
>
> $ apt-cache policy xserver-xorg
> xserver-xorg:
>  Installed: 1:7.5+6ubuntu2
>  Candidate: 1:7.5+6ubuntu3
>  Version table:
>     1:7.5+6ubuntu3 0
>        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick/main i386 Packages
>  *** 1:7.5+6ubuntu2 0
>        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
> $ apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-core
> xserver-xorg-core:
>  Installed: 2:1.8.1.902-0ubuntu2
>  Candidate: 2:1.8.99.905-1ubuntu1
>  Version table:
>     2:1.8.99.905-1ubuntu1 0
>        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick/main i386 Packages
>  *** 2:1.8.1.902-0ubuntu2 0
>        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
> $ apt-cache policy nvidia-96
> nvidia-96:
>  Installed: 96.43.18-0ubuntu1
>  Candidate: 96.43.18-0ubuntu1
>  Version table:
>  *** 96.43.18-0ubuntu1 0
>        500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ maverick/restricted
> i386 Packages
>        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>
> Then the trouble begins... do an update and that installs 1.8.99.905:
> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/2:1.8.99.905-1ubuntu1
> And that breaks everything. Reboot & system stalls at plymouth splash
> screen. Booting into single user mode (Recovery) gets me to a terminal
> mode, but startx, gdm et all do not work.
> I can purge nvidia-96 and get the gdm login back. I can even purge
> nouveau and reinstall nvidia-96 and get the gdm login back; but I can't
> enable the nvidia drivers as 'sudo nvidia-xconfig' creates an
> /etc/X11/xorg.conf that does not work.
>
> So I reinstall 10.10 Alpha3 and get nvidia-96 working again (including
> fading & wobbly windows). This time I 'force version' of xserver-common
> and xserver-xorg-core to 1.8.1.902 via Synaptic. I purposely leave
> xserver-xorg available for update & reboot as update-manager keeps
> crashing & interestingly enough shows a download size of 1Kb for 256
> selected updates... So I pin the packages via dpkg:
>
> $ sudo -s
> # echo xserver-common hold | dpkg --set-selections
> # echo xserver-xorg-core hold | dpkg --set-selections
> # exit
> $ sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
>
> Update the system again & reboot: nvidia-96 and compiz are still working
> fine. So my suspicion is that 2:1.8.99.905-1ubuntu1 is the primary
> issue. Unfortunately, pinning to the 1.8.1.902 version seems to cause
> holding back 43 other packages:
>
> The following packages have been kept back:
>  gbrainy gir1.0-freedesktop gir1.0-glib-2.0 python-gobject
>  python-gobject-cairo xserver-common xserver-xorg xserver-xorg-core
>  xserver-xorg-input-evdev xserver-xorg-input-mouse
>  xserver-xorg-input-synaptics xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse
>  xserver-xorg-input-wacom xserver-xorg-video-apm xserver-xorg-video-ark
>  xserver-xorg-video-ati xserver-xorg-video-chips xserver-xorg-video-cirrus
>  xserver-xorg-video-fbdev xserver-xorg-video-i128 xserver-xorg-video-i740
>  xserver-xorg-video-intel xserver-xorg-video-mach64 xserver-xorg-video-mga
>  xserver-xorg-video-neomagic xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
> xserver-xorg-video-nv
>  xserver-xorg-video-openchrome xserver-xorg-video-r128
>  xserver-xorg-video-radeon xserver-xorg-video-rendition
> xserver-xorg-video-s3
>  xserver-xorg-video-s3virge xserver-xorg-video-savage
>  xserver-xorg-video-siliconmotion xserver-xorg-video-sis
>  xserver-xorg-video-sisusb xserver-xorg-video-tdfx
> xserver-xorg-video-trident
>  xserver-xorg-video-tseng xserver-xorg-video-vesa xserver-xorg-video-vmware
>  xserver-xorg-video-voodoo
> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 43 not upgraded.
>
> Before I wander off to launchpad land to file a bug, can anyone else
> verify the same issue with nvidia-96 and/or offer suggestions as to how
> to resolve with the updated xserver packages?
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: aptitude vs. apt

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 14 June 2010 19:03, Akkana Peck  wrote:
> Chris Jones writes:
>> I was simply pointing out that in addition to apt-get's
>> functions, there really is nothing that aptitude can technically do that
>> can't be done already with other built-in tools.
>
> I use aptitude primarily for aptitude search. It shows which packages
> are or are not installed, deleted etc., which apt-cache search doesn't.
>

dpkg -l "baz*"

not good enough for you?

For more robust syntax use dpkg-query

> Is there a better way of getting this information without aptitude
> (and without firing up a gui program)?  Certainly aptitude isn't
> perfect (like the way it truncates lines at the display width even
> if stdout isn't a terminal), but getting the same information with
> other programs seems like it requires scripting or at least a fairly
> long shell pipeline.
>
>        ...Akkana
>
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Re: Aptitude included in Maverick by default

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 11 June 2010 23:40, Chris Jones  wrote:
> I was discussing this issue with some other members on #ubuntu+1 irc just
> yesterday. Should aptitude be included in Maverick by default?
>
> I can't see any valid reason of why it should be. We already have apt-get,
> dpkg and gdebi. And between the 3 of those, all bases are already covered.
> So I believe one has to raise the question.
> I'm not aware of how much space aptitude actually consumes, but the space
> could be better used for something more useful and/or important.
>
> Regards
>

Debian aptitude is at 0.6.2.1-2, while ubuntu's aptitude is at
0.4.11.11-1ubuntu10

I don't know why there is such a large version difference though and
how much work needs to be done to merge these two together.

Aptitude is able to handle downgrades better than synaptic/apt-get
this was the only way for me to downgrade from my personal
experimental gcc-4.5 toolchain on Lucid back to the default 4.4

http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/aptitude.html
https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptitude

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Re: Is Ubuntu commited to free software?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 10 June 2010 17:32, David Schlesinger  wrote:
> Having gotten that authoritative answer, I'm _still_ not sure it would have
> the slightest bit of relevance here. Go create a "FSF-Buntu" or something,
> if you feel the burning need.
>

gNewSense

http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
http://www.gnewsense.org/

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Re: Is Ubuntu commited to free software?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 9 June 2010 17:57, Danny Piccirillo  wrote:
> Of course it is! At least according to our
> philosophy: http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy
>
> Still, many people don't think that Ubuntu is truly committed to free
> software in practice. These people can and should be our allies. Their
> concerns are valid, and they are not difficult to appease. I'd like to
> present a short list of simple ways that Ubuntu could show it's commitment:
> 1. Offer ways to easily purge all non-free software from one's system.

Those who know why medibuntu, restricted & multiverse exists also know
how to remove those and purge those packages.

I personally have only one firmware blob for my webcam support,
non-free codecs, flash & skype.

>  * This would require supporting the linux libre kernel (it doesn't have to
> be by default, but the option should be available)
> 2. Make a point of saying why and how non-free software was bad, but also
> why the option is given to install it


Define "bad" ?! It's a very subjective matter with many personal views
on the subject. I for example believe that Microsoft Office suite is a
high quality software designed with very high standards and great user
experience. License terms does not make software better or worse, it
just limits the amount of people who will agree to use it and limits
what is and isn't allowed to do when you are using it.

>  * This would need to be shown every time Ubuntu recommends proprietary
> software like restricted drivers
> That's it!

Personally I do not want my desktop to nag and change my personal
views and making me feel bad for making a particular choice of the
installed software.

Ubuntu is about freedom, and that includes freedom of choice. We do
have predefined-seeds targeting different users with what we believe
is best experience for them, but in no way we will ever limit user's
freedom of choice or try to manipulate it. From defining apt
components, adding/removing ppa's, pinning and blacklisting packages
users have the ultimate control of what they feel comfortable with
running on their machines.

There are many software packages out there, and there are many
alternative packages with similar functionality but written in
different languages / with different license and we are offering the
most we can collectively possibly maintain / support.

Some thing gpl is evil, some thing bsd is evil, i don't think EULA's
and apple public license are evil. I respect all developers' choices
and as a user I make my own whether I want to use particular package
or not.

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Re: LiveCD optimisations

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 24 May 2010 17:57, Conrad Knauer  wrote:
> On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 4:33 AM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs
>  wrote:
>
>>> Tomboy can be replaced with Gnote
>>
>> Gnote is abandoned by the author
>
> On what basis do you claim this?
>

Last time I cared about Tomboy vs Gnote arguments it was this:

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnote-list/2009-October/msg1.html

> Lucid uses 0.6.2 according to http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=gnote
>
> I note the following release dates according to the files in
> http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/gnote/
>
> gnote-0.6.3   28-Nov-2009
> gnote-0.6.4   22-Mar-2010
>
> gnote-0.7.0   31-Dec-2009
> gnote-0.7.1   04-Jan-2010
> gnote-0.7.2   12-Mar-2010
>
> Debian is up to 0.7.1 as per http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=gnote
>

Fair enough so taking ~6 months as cutoff date which puts at gnote
0.6.2 & tomboy 1.1.0

Comparing:

http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnote/tree/NEWS
http://git.gnome.org/browse/tomboy/tree/NEWS


>> and has less functionality then Tomboy (less plugins, no ubuntuone 
>> integration etc.)
>
> Please see http://www.stefanoforenza.com/getting-gnote-facts-straight/
>

So has the syncing been implemented yet? IMHO it's the killer feature
to sync tomboy with linux, mac, win & cloud.

Also note that gnote vs tomboy in terms of disk space savings is
really about gtkmm vs mono. As far as I remember (again could be
out-of-date and less relevant with GObject-Interspcection) that gtkmm
is big and currently not-included by default on Ubuntu CD's.

ps. I use emacs-org mode and I don't have tomboy/gnote installed =)

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Re: glibc version in Ubuntu 10.04!

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 24 May 2010 13:41, Naresh Mehta  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am trying to compile Ofono in Ubuntu 10.04. I have a problem with the
> glibc version number. Ofono needs a version >2.16 whereas 10.04 gives 2.10.
> Upstream of glibc is at 2.9. Why is ubuntu 10.04 stuck at 2.10? Is there a
> reason for that and/or are there any plans to upgrade the library later on?
>

How about testing for API/ABI and functions instead of version numbers?

> Previous versions of Ubuntu had glibc package available which is not
> available with 10.04. It would be great if somebody can throw some light
> here.
>

Maybe because Debian & Ubuntu stopped using glibc? =) we use eglibc
and it is at latest stable version

www.eglibc.org


> Please do guide me to the appropriate mailing list if this is not the
> intended one.
>

This is not the correct mailing list.

ubuntu-users or ubuntu-app-devel channel on freenode. There is also a
developing subforum on ubuntuforums.

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Re: LiveCD optimisations

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 24 May 2010 10:33, Conrad Knauer  wrote:
> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Louis Simard  wrote:
>
>> Optimising the PNG images saves 5.5 MB on the filesystem.squashfs.
>> Optimising the SVG files saves an additional 7 MB. This is a total of
>> 12.5 MB which could be used to pack more software or another language
>> pack or two onto the LiveCD.
>
> Speaking of saving space on the LiveCD, I note on
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/see-ya-f-spot-shotwell-comes-to-ubuntu.html
> that F-Spot is supposed to be bumped (in favor of Shotwell) for
> Maverick.  Does this mean that we can finally remove Mono now too?

No.

> (Tomboy can be replaced with Gnote; gBrainy can be replaced with some

Gnote is abandoned by the author and has less functionality then
Tomboy (less plugins, no ubuntuone integration etc.)

gBrainy ROCKS =)

> other game... it's not like there aren't lots to pick from :)  Anyone
> have an estimate of how much space would be saved by doing that?
>

No clue =) and to late for Maverick this should have been proposed as
a spec for UDS and discussed there.

ps. I would really want for gnome-do to get into default install ;-)

> CK
>

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Re: LiveCD optimisations

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 22 May 2010 09:31, Louis Simard  wrote:
> HOWEVER: The optimisations made card games (Klondike etc.) unplayable,
> as no cards appear, due to the change in
> /usr/share/gnome-games-common/cards/gnomangelo_bitmap.svg. Gbrainy
> started crashing when a new game of verbal analogies was started, due
> to xmllint's addition of an  tag in
> /usr/share/games/gbrainy/verbal_analogies.xml. Nautilus lost its
> toolbars, icons and right-click menu. The help viewer (System / Help
> and Support) complains that every file is not a well-formed XML
> document. So perhaps XML optimisations aren't so good? :(
>

Is it due to them using GMarkup instead of libxml to parse XML's?

I yes it's a bug in glib then =) i would be cool to compress xml's as
much as possible. Afterall people should be getting the source
packages to edit those and apps should parse xml's just fine without
spaces and with/without  tag.

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Re: LiveCD optimisations

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 21 May 2010 01:35, Louis Simard  wrote:
>
> -- WHAT? --
>
> Optimise the PNG images and SVG files on the Ubuntu LiveCD.
> Optimise the Ubuntu LiveCD by putting start-up files and programs near
> the end of the CD.
>

-- Implementation --

1) Should this go into deb-package mangler run by soyuz?

2) Or should this be implemented as debhelper addon / cdbs as no-op
ubuntu-patch and then if successful (all the quirks are worked out)
and pushed to Debian?

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Re: Package screenshots concerns

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 19 May 2010 23:20, Dylan McCall  wrote:
> Hello!
>
>
> Software Centre makes package screenshots (via screenshots.debian.org)
> extremely prominent, which is wonderful. Before I dive in, I think this
> really improves how packages are presented and I would never want to go
> back. Having said that, I think the screenshots stuff is currently
> problematic.
>
>
> First of all, some of these just don't look right. At the moment every
> screenshot seems to have a different desktop environment, theme,
> application font, or something. The Ubuntu Manual people use a nice
> little app, called Quickshot, to solve this kind of thing.
> ( http://ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot ). Is anyone working on that? There
> is the unfortunate issue that Debian doesn't really aim for a special
> cohesive look, whereas Ubuntu does…
>
>

Guidelines for debian screenshots ask to take screenshots without
desktop / window decorations to minimise the amount of visible user
customisation. And it is not visible to get a consistent look for all
screenshots for all apps in debian nor ubuntu because we people do
have custom themes on and we do have multiple default themes per
distribution & per flavour (think Kubuntu Karmic & Ubuntu Lucid).

And to be fair screenshots are of limited use =) you see it only once
or twice for a given app, and then you install it and it's end of
story. It is purely 3 second marketing of what the app looks like
approximately.

Ubuntu Manual on the other actually describes the application and
walks through dialogs and etc. So it is important for the real
application to match the screenshot you are guiding people through.


> More importantly, many of these screenshots are outdated! The screenshot
> for Miro is from version 1. Its current major version is 3, which has
> some very big changes that are visible in the UI. Screenshot uploaders
> can (but aren't required to) specify version numbers. Unfortunately, as
> far as I can tell, there is no way to retrieve a screenshot based on
> package name + version. As a result,
> http://screenshots.debian.net/screenshot/anjuta , and by extension
> Software Centre, shows the shot for Anjuta version 2.4.2-1+lenny1, even
> though there is a screenshot for 2.28.1.0-1 available.
>

Make new screenshot and upload it =)

>
> Another thing worries me a little: screenshots.debian.net does not
> accept screenshots for non-free packages. Software Centre, on the other
> hand, probably shouldn't be that picky. The new specification
> foundations-m-software-center-screenshots-for-third-parties[1] suggests
> package meta-data that points at a screenshot, not far from the existing
> Homepage field, as an “alternative solution.” I think it would be worth
> discussing that as THE solution, where the Debian Screenshots service
> kicks in as a fallback from that in all cases. (It's still excellent for
> any package that is specific to Debian or lacks a stable web presence).
> [1]
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-software-center-screenshots-for-third-parties
>

No clue about this, no opinion.

>
> I'm concerned that, if the problems aren't addressed, we'll end up with
> a lot of screenshots being catalogued insufficiently. Later on, that
> could lead to either wasted effort or cruft. I also get the impression
> that this service detaches the presentation of an application from its
> respective maintainer, and from its original developer. If I make a
> game, for example, and I'm really proud of it, and it's in the
> repositories, I would want my own screenshot attached to it and I would
> be Really Irritated if some random person uploaded anything else.
>

True. Some changes probably do make sense. When screenshots started
there was 3 binary package and 0 screenshots ;-) so it was the
only realistic solution to start providing screenshots.

And for Debian it really maters to have stable screenshot for 2+ years
unlike ubuntu which is released more frequently.

>
>
> Thanks,
> Dylan
>
>
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Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 19 May 2010 00:49, Dylan McCall  wrote:
>> I've posted this on the debian-devel mailing list as well. This was
>> posted out of a concern that Canoncial is thinking about switching
>> over to Chromium in later releases as Lubuntu has done already. I have
>> seen articles of this possibility as well. I don't feel making
>> Chromium the default browser is appropriate until the privacy issues
>> are addressed. I also feel that taking care these issues before a
>> switch to Chromium is even seriously considered is beneficial to
>> everyone.
>
> Given that the privacy concerns have been neatly documented[1] by
> Google including instructions on disabling the offending features, I
> can't shake the doubt that they could ever be addressed in some
> peoples' opinions.
> [1] http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=114836&hl=en-GB
>

Note this link above is about Google Chrome not about Chromium.
Chromium doesn't have that.

> Granted, I may just be ill informed. Is there some detail being missed
> in that document?
>
> It's not that I have anything against Iron, of course, though I am
> slightly wary of their website and apparent lack of a source
> repository. Doesn't feel brilliantly maintained. Maybe they just need
> a gentle nudge in Launchpad's direction.
> With regards to packaging, there is a Launchpad PPA with daily builds
> of Chromium, so they surely have sorted out any installation and
> packaging quirks in that source repository. Perhaps you can get a diff
> with Iron's changes, and if you're incredibly lucky it'll apply
> smoothly. Could save you some work :)
>


The chromium daily builds ppa is more accuratly should be described as
a mini-fork it has spliced chromium tree almost in half and throughout
out loads of junk (embedded copies of libraries being the most
significant part).

My personal opinion is that current chromium daily builds ppa (which
is maintained by a few folks including some that do mozilla for
ubuntu) is far more secure and stable in terms of packaging and
integration with Ubuntu & Debian _and_ it doesn't have google goggles
spying users.

At UDS it has been discussed to switch Ubuntu Netbook Remix to
Chromium for Maverick.

>
> Dylan
>
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Re: Remove OO Draw from the default install

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 16 May 2010 18:53, David Futcher  wrote:
>
>
> On 16 May 2010 15:26, Dane Mutters  wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 09:49 -0400, Michael Robinson wrote:
>> > I've found Dia to be useful for diagrams. It's a lot like Visio (the
>> > flowchart program in MS Office).
>>
>> I took a look at Dia in the Ubuntu Software Center.  While it looks
>> well-adapted for diagramming schematics and such, I'm not sure how it
>> would do with flow charts and the like.  Any thoughts on that?
>
>
>
> I have used Dia a bit and found it quite clunky and difficult to use. The
> graphics in the files aren't spectacular either. I haven't used Openoffice
> Draw before but seeing was we include much of OO.o anyway, I don't think it
> would really make too much sense to replace it with something that is
> (apparently, again I have not used OO Draw) not much better.
>
>
> Are there any other suggestions for a replacement app? Dia seems to really
> be the other go-to app for diagramming, but it doesn't really feel
> "professional" or sleek enough to include in the default install.
>


I personally find Google Docs Diagrams more flexible and easier to use
than OO.o Draw & Dia both for a quick vector sketch & flowcharts.

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Re: Device label being shown none on Ubuntu server 10.04

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

This is not a support mailing list. This mailing list about developing
Ubuntu Operting System.

Please see help.ubuntu.com, #ubuntu, support mailing lists, ubuntuforums etc.

ps. I really don't understand your question, so when you seek help
using above support options please describe your question more
verbose.

On 16 May 2010 02:08, Kaushal Shriyan  wrote:
> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Kaushal Shriyan
>  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have not understood about the device label being none on Ubuntu
>> Server 10.04 and on Ubuntu Server 8.04 it appears to be correct.
>> Please help me understand about it.
>>
>> On a 8.04 Ubuntu Server
>>
>> Filesystem    Type    Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>> /dev/sda1      xfs    461G  118G  343G  26% /
>> varrun       tmpfs    4.0G   72K  4.0G   1% /var/run
>> varlock      tmpfs    4.0G     0  4.0G   0% /var/lock
>> udev         tmpfs    4.0G   32K  4.0G   1% /dev
>> devshm       tmpfs    4.0G     0  4.0G   0% /dev/shm
>> lrm          tmpfs    4.0G   43M  3.9G   2%
>> /lib/modules/2.6.24-16-generic/volatile
>> /dev/sda5     ext3    464M   28M  412M   7% /boot
>>
>> On a 10.04 Ubuntu Server
>>
>> Filesystem    Type    Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>> /dev/sda1      xfs    522G  645M  521G   1% /
>> none      devtmpfs     36G  224K   36G   1% /dev
>> none         tmpfs     36G     0   36G   0% /dev/shm
>> none         tmpfs     36G   36K   36G   1% /var/run
>> none         tmpfs     36G     0   36G   0% /var/lock
>> none         tmpfs     36G     0   36G   0% /lib/init/rw
>> none       debugfs    522G  645M  521G   1% /var/lib/ureadahead/debugfs
>> /dev/sda3     ext3    490M   27M  438M   6% /boot
>>
>> Also I see the (none       debugfs    522G  645M  521G   1%
>> /var/lib/ureadahead/debugfs) and (/dev/sda1      xfs    522G  645M
>> 521G   1% /) the same on Ubuntu server 10.04, Any clue ?
>>
>> Thanks and Regards
>>
>> Kaushal
>>
>
> Hi Again
>
> I have not heard anything from this list. Any updates please?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kaushal
>
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Re: UID mapping filesystem

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

How about formatting your flash drive as FAT and use it everywhere
without ACL mess?

=)

Alternativly you might be able to achieve this with cunning DeviceKit
/ PolicyKit rules.

I don't see how this can be useful as FUSE because it will be one more
hurdle to jump.

Also I don't understand how can you prove that this flash drive with
this random UID is actually yours on a new machine? Surely that would
still require root access to add yourself to your new FUSE config.

On 11 May 2010 19:03, Tiago Espinha  wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I'm a postgraduate student at the University of Leicester and the time has 
> come for me to do my thesis. This thesis can be in the format of a technical 
> project and one of the topics that has been proposed for my course has to do 
> with Linux.
>
> More concretely, the idea is that the student develops a FUSE file system 
> that maps that user's user ID across several terminals. The purpose of this 
> would be that if I have a USB stick formatted with ext4 and I copy files to 
> it at my Linux terminal at home, I would be able to access these files from 
> my terminal at work.
>
> As it is, according to this project's description (I'm no guru on this 
> matter), when we attempt to do what I've described, we won't have permissions 
> (unless the files are chmod'ed to 777) to read the files, set aside modify 
> them. Of course that as long as you are a super-user, you can always chown 
> them to your user in the local terminal and all is well. However, you would 
> have the same exact problem when returning to your other terminal.
>
> My question is: does the community agree that this would be feasible with a 
> FUSE file system AND that is this an actual feature with appeal and 
> usefulness to the community? Has this been requested a lot or not really?
>
> I have to make up my mind between this project and another one by tomorrow so 
> if anyone has an opinion or take on this, I'm all ears!
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Tiago
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Including a system-wide pulseaudio equalizer

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 11 May 2010 09:20, Luke Yelavich  wrote:
> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 08:15:30AM CEST, Chandru wrote:
>> The default media players in Ubuntu, though quite capable do not have
>> graphical equalizers.  Rather than including an equalizer in every
>> application, having a system wide equalizer can be very handy especially
>> when playing online videos.
>
> I personally think that users will get confused with an EQ. If they find it, 
> adjust something, and find sound is not as good, they will file bugs 
> regarding sound problems that they have caused.
>

Yeah I'm Engineering Major and have no clue which slider to move to
hear what i want =)

But with every music player I use I've always went into the equaliser,
was choosing between preset options. Finding the one I like best and
always increased the pre-amplifier to get louder music.

I would find it extremely useful to do that just once for all apps
that produce sound.

As for bugs I was annoyed that speakers on my laptop were quieter
under ubuntu until I was told to use EQ to crank the speakers higher
without getting distortion when the sound is maxed out.

> I personally think we need to think very very carefully about how we 
> implement EQ, and whether it is needed by the vast majority of people.
>

Why can't the EQ be inside the sound properties the one you get to
from current VolumeIndicator -> Preferences?

That would be Hidden enough yet Findable enough =)

> Luke
>

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Re: The Excalibur System

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 11 May 2010 06:51, Ryan Oram  wrote:
> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs
>  wrote:
>> Goog luck with your project.
>>
>> https://www.ltsp-cluster.org/
>>
>> http://www.stgraber.org/2010/02/21/ltsp-52-out
>>
>> Hope this helps ;-)
>>
>
> How does LTSP fair over remote connections?
>

This is something for you to investigate =)

I've never done anything with it but blog posts "sound wonderful everything"

> One of the parts of my system is that students and faculty would be
> able to remote desktop in from any computer and access their apps and
> data from anywhere in the world, aiming for local-computer-like
> response times for anywhere in the local area.
>
> NX remote desktoping has near native response times over DSL.
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>

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Re: The Excalibur System

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

Goog luck with your project.

https://www.ltsp-cluster.org/

http://www.stgraber.org/2010/02/21/ltsp-52-out

Hope this helps ;-)

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Re: Maverick is open for development

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 8 May 2010 07:59, Martin Pitt  wrote:
> Hello Ubuntu Developers,
>
> those of you who are already on maverick-changes[1] will have noticed,
> but now it is official: Maverick is open for development now, go wild!
>
> Martin
>
> [1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/maverick-changes
>

Maverick is still a little bit confused about its toolchain though.
To me it looks like gcc-defaults hasn't been reuploaded yet to depend
on gcc-4.5 instead of gcc-4.4.
Looking at the buildlog which finished 13 minutes ago [1] it uses 4.4 toolchain:

"""
Toolchain package versions: libc6-dev_2.11.1-0ubuntu8
make_3.81-7ubuntu1 dpkg-dev_1.15.5.6ubuntu4 g++-4.4_4.4.4-1ubuntu1
gcc-4.4_4.4.4-1ubuntu1 binutils_2.20.1-9ubuntu1
libstdc++6_4.5.0-2ubuntu2 libstdc++6-4.4-dev_4.4.4-1ubuntu1
"""

On irc I was told that we will be using gcc-4.5 for maverick.

[1] 
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/48079893/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.ucommon_2.1.3-0ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz


> --
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> Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com)  | Debian Developer  (www.debian.org)

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Re: Window controls: minimise and maximise icons are confusing?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 7 May 2010 11:42, C. Gatzemeier  wrote:
> Am Fri, 7 May 2010 10:04:21 +1000
> schrieb Chris Jones :
>
> Notice the waste of display space. 80% unused double hight menu space
> when window is maximized. That makes ubuntu use four status bar hights
> of precious display space with its default layout. About the one thing I
> liked from chromium is the idea of putting the menu/tab items and window
> buttons into one bar. Menu/tab things left window buttons right.
>

I don't think we can do this without client-side decorations support
in Gtk+ without patching everysingle app with loads of code like it is
currently done in chromium.

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Re: Windows controls: new button layout (was: Re: Window controls: minimise and maximise icons are confusing?)

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 7 May 2010 08:00, V for Vortex  wrote:
> On Fri, 7 May 2010 10:04:21 +1000
> Chris Jones  wrote:
>
>> Some days I get frustrated and go to change it back to the
>> traditional way of doing things. But then I have to remind myself to
>> "just be patient". And it doesn't help also being a Windows user and
>> having to compete with the Windows window control buttons which are
>> of course the traditional layout also.
>
> If you are using Windows and Ubuntu together, it may be better for you
> to have the buttons at the same location on both systems. On the
> other hand, Mac+Ubuntu users should be happier with the new layout.
>

I'm Mac+Ubuntu user and I was so annoyed when mark said he is gonna
revert the order on the left handside to close,min,full
(title)(space)
min,full, close.(title)(space)

My mouse always stays roughly in the center of the screeen and close
button is the most often I have to reach for with my mouse so i
preffered the beta like controls with "close" being the closest. It
was refreshing =(

> I control my windows mostly with the keyboard (compiz has some great
> options for this), so I am not bothered with the new layout most of the
> time. ;)
>

Yesterday I've purged compiz packages. But unfortunatly gnome-shell
fails to start I'm not missing anything.

> Ciao
>
> V.
>
> --
> "An Open Source project that is disconnected from community is like
> trying to make beautiful music having never heard a song."
> -- Jono Bacon, Ubuntu Community Manager at Canonical
>
>
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Re: Ubuntu needs a new development model

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 May 2010 21:23, John Moser  wrote:
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs
>  wrote:
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust
>>
>> The thing that all packages in debian rely on to prove that they are 
>> authentic?
>
>
> He said easier to trust PEOPLE.  Look at the PGP web of trust, people
> with dozens or hundreds of signatures on their PGP public keys.  When
> I was using GPG for a year to sign my e-mails, I re-downloaded my
> public key from the key server and had found that some 15 or so people
> that I'd never heard of had signed my key.
>

Debian is not using public gpg servers. Instead they maintain their
own keyring shipped in the debian-keyring package. You cannot add
signatures to that from non-dd's. And DD's are only keeping real
signatures on their keys from key signing parties.

> Your first response to this is going to point out that Ubuntu could
> trust only keys signed with keys that themselves are signed with an
> Ubuntu Master Key or some such; so maybe Martin's key is signed by

My response is to not use public gpg keyservers as authorative source
of keys & signatures

> Canonical, Inc and Martin signs your key, so you're valid.  You sign
> another key, that is still called "untrusted."  Thus, we don't have
> the crazy uncontrolled mess described above.
>

That's more inline with SSL keys with CA keys and so-on. Debian does
self-signed onces, then sign it by gpg key =) cause CA keys are imho a
bit of mess and I can't really trust them for distributed nature.

> Which brings us back to trusting people.
>
> Out of the hundreds, thousands of people that you want to incorporate
> into your trust hierarchy, how do you determine which can be trusted?
> Who is talking their way through you, showing good work, uploading
> hundreds of excellent packages with stopgap patches or well-requested
> features and things that won't go into Main or will go in later; but
> in secret, really waiting for a good time to slip malware into a
> package?
>

I don't recall that this ever happened with ubuntu or debian to the
point that it got distributed to users. Plus there is hiearchy of
human review of all packages which go into the archive. Such things
will be noticed very quickly.

> It doesn't have to be patches they wrote; could be a -ck kernel or a
> kernel with a piece from -mm, or a patch onto Gimp that's gained
> popularity but nobody felt fit to pay attention to, or any other
> 3-seconds-of-work patching process.  More than 3 seconds?  Oh, this
> one I hit a bump with, I think I'll just discard it; I've got plenty
> of other "work" to show.
>

you lost me here.

> The smoke and mirrors is a bit complex; but we're talking about a
> threat that essentially amounts to "someone wrote, compiled, packaged,
> tested, and uploaded a piece of malware to a repository they needed
> special permission to join."  This is not a fat businessman pushing
> the "SPAM THE WORLD" button.
>

I maybe be wrong but there are about 200 people with upload rights to
ubuntu archive. It's not so hard to know 200 people. Most of these
people are putting their reputation and work prospects when they sign
a package for upload. One such incedent can invalidate years of hard
work in open-source. I don't think there are people motivate enough to
cause such a thing.

> Every time someone suggests finding a way to trust people more (or in
> this case, trust more people), God laughs at them.  A lot.  The only
> way to fully trust an individual is to hang a camera and a turret
> above his head constantly, and even then you can't be sure; the only

How does that help to read someone's mind? I don't follow.

> way to improve how much you can safely trust someone is to devote
> resources to learning about them on a personal and technical (i.e.
> background check) level.  When you add hundreds of developers or just
> random people to a project, with direct access, you WILL have
> problems, and you WILL hand access to people who desperately don't

All people are already filtered like that. The suggestion here is that
you can extend this model to unofficial repositories and allow users
to connect to those easier.

You might want to look at openSUSE buildservice which allows 1-click
install of packages from any random user's published repositories.
They even kind of hide the fact that it is a team or person they just
display a catalogue with package names and versions.

> need it.  This is why the Linux Kernel has 30,000 developers and all
> of 1 or 2 people with commit access (Linus and who else?  Drepper and
> Andrew maybe).
>

Everyone has commit access to linux tree. Go clon

Re: Ubuntu needs a new development model

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 May 2010 20:33, John Moser  wrote:
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Martin Owens  wrote:
>
>> Work on making... easier to trust people
>
>  hahahahahahaha.
>
> Hey man, I'm calling from your bank.  There's like, a problem with
> your account...
>
> Wait, what were you suggesting again?
>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust

The thing that all packages in debian rely on to prove that they are authentic?

and you shouldn't be laughing at Martin Owens that's disrespectful
considering the amount of work he his done for ubuntu.


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Re: Chromium for Xubuntu?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 May 2010 17:30, Charlie Kravetz  wrote:
> On Thu, 6 May 2010 11:01:26 -0400
> John Moser  wrote:
>
> Perhaps the best fit of all would be midori, which is part of Xfce
> development now. Is chromium still in beta? I don't seem to keep up
> with all of these anymore.
>

Chromium is operating in continuous release model with "channels":
they have trunk, dev channel, beta channel, stable channel. All of
these are getting continious releases with trunk being the fastest and
stable being the slowest. They haven't made a release tarball & it
doesn't look like they are planning to. Pick a channell and you will
get security & improvements & bugs in all of them in different
proportions and latency.

Chromium daily ppa is packaging trunk & beta channels similar codebase
that google is using in their linux builds.

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Re: Chromium for Xubuntu?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 May 2010 16:01, John Moser  wrote:
> I only use Ubuntu/Gnome, but Google seems to tell me the state of things is:
>
>  - Ubuntu comes with Firefox
>  - Xubuntu comes with Firefox
>  - KDE comes with something called Arora
>
> Arora seems to be a Webkit-based browser, as Chrome.

Chromium-browser is in Lucid repository.
Epiphany-browser is also available

Both use Gtk and Webkit. I find epiphany the most integrated into
Gnome desktop at the moment not sure how well both fit into xubuntu.

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Re: Ubuntu needs a new development model

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 May 2010 02:38, Ryan Oram  wrote:
> All the packages I have pulled from dev PPAs have been of high
> quality. In fact, most of them fix problems present in the Ubuntu
> packages.
>
> Really only a minimal amount of review and testing should be needed.
> Ubuntu would just need to require that developers build their packages
> on Launchpad before review. Launchpad is an excellent filter in
> itself. We all know how much of a pain signing up for a Launchpad
> upload privileges is, in addition to the effort required to get
> something to even build on Launchpad (pbuilder is awesome, but boy
> getting something to build in a chroot environment can be a hassle).
>
> Ryan
>

Answer: It broke the flow of reading
.
Question: Why is top posting bad?

Please stop that.


The high-quality ppa's are done by Ubuntu&Debian developers and not
upstream authors. Those that are fixing bugs in Ubuntu are targetted
at ubuntu archive after sufficient testing is done and uploaded.

PPAs bitrot: it fixes one thing but ubuntu archive moves on and you
are stuck either with old version with one fix from ppa or newer
version from archive which has these after cool features but not this
one fix.

Plus I've been hit personally when ppa's don't provide versions for
the current release.

As for building on launchpad it is theoretically possible to make a
binary blob tarball upload it and just run dpkg-deb*

* I haven't tried it myself & possibly there are auto-rejection
scripts on launchpad to detect this.
> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs
>  wrote:
>> Upstream developers build from trunk and they don't care on how to
>> package it cause they personally do not need it.
>>
>> Upstreams don't usually have a clue in packaging and spend quite a bit
>> of time trying to make it build and ignoring all lintian warnings
>> because someone asked them to & there is no real package available in
>> the archive.
>>
>> These upstream debanisations are usually of poor quality and can do
>> nasty things to your machine (static libs, auto-updating and pinging
>> upstream about userbase => google chrome & they do know how to package
>> btw so this was on purpose and not to make it fit into the system)
>>
>>
>> If some project doesn't have a package it is either new, unnoticed, or
>> half-broken code that it cannot justify packaging effort.
>
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Re: Removal of PulseAudio from Ubuntu

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 May 2010 02:31, Ryan Oram  wrote:
> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs
>  wrote:
>> Generalisation. I know plenty of people who play games and do not
>> know how to edit *plain* text files.
>
> In order to get most emulators (which at this point sadly are what

what is an emulator? i play games on facebook & xbox.

> people are going to be using to play games) and native games to work

yofrankie works fine so does skype here.

> on Ubuntu, you have to remove PulseAudio, install aoss and, if the
> emulator/games uses SDL, libsdl1.2debian-oss as SDL seems to have
> timing problems with ALSA (especially with games made using the
> Allegro library/toolkit).
>
> It is broken to the point that the OpenSonic FAQ recommends that you
> remove PulseAudio when installing.
> http://opensnc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/FAQ#The_game_has_no_sound.21_.28Linux.29
>

you lost me at installing "emulator" i play games & listen music in my kitchen.

>> I don't know how to configure Linux to do that. I use the PA sliders.
>> Thanks to avahi I was able to stream music to my kitchen without
>> editing any textfiles.
>>
>> I would not be able to do this without PA.
>
> Is your average user is going to be streaming audio to his kitchen?
>

In US & Canada a lot of people do.

> I think Ubuntu should be focusing on getting its audio system to work
> out of the box for common usage situations. Playing native games and
> emulators is much more common usage situation then Bluetooth headsets
> (hell I gave mine up as it was much more of a pain on any OS then a
> corded/RF headset) and streaming audio to another computer.
>


We got streaming audio & bluetooth audio for free. I don't see any
"emulators" in ubuntu main so I don't understand why should it be a
focus for ubuntu. As for games the default set of games & more
advanced like yofrankie work fine.


> Less common situations can be addressed by FAQs and documentation.

For me "emulators" is a niche situation. And so is for all of my
hosemates and family. Only a few of us are gamers and they use xbox.

> Chances are if a user wants to stream audio to his kitchen or use a
> bluetooth headset, he will be looking online for documentation and
> help anyways.
>

On Mac & Windows streaming audio and using bluetooth headsets is dead
simple using manufacturer cd (which everyone installs) and using
iTunes for streaming.

Why should one look up documentation & help on Ubuntu when it's
painlessly done on a Mac?


How *easy* is it to setup "emulators" on windows?

> A user will not expect to have to configure his audio system to play
> games. He will expect it to work by default.
>

Default games work.


You have operating system already. Work on, it make it unique, profit.

> Ryan
>
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Re: Ubuntu needs a new development model

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 May 2010 02:16, Tom H  wrote:
> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs
>  wrote:
>> On 6 May 2010 01:38, Brandon Holtsclaw  wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2010-05-05 at 20:34 -0400, Daniel Hollocher wrote:
>>>> I'm pretty sure that getdeb.net and the ppa's on launchpad satisfy
>>>> most cravings for rolling releases.
>>>
>>> And Debian sid and/or Testing for that matter
>>
>> And of course ubuntu+1
>
> Except that there is a period of a few weeks after a release where
> there is no ubuntu+1
>

Similar for debian but stretched a bit timewise for testing & sid and
even experimental in someways.

How about going fedora style and openening ubuntu+1 for toolchain &
debian package autoimport at rc such that at day 0 we have ubuntu+1?

This will put pressure on toolchain hackers we love you =)
don't hate us for suggesting this.

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Re: Ubuntu needs a new development model

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 May 2010 02:09, Ryan Oram  wrote:
> It seems like a good site, but I ultimately feel it should be the
> developer themselves who package the applications, as the developers
> will have a much greater incentive to make working and tested packages
> then the maintainers (no offense to the great work of the maintainers
> of Ubuntu and Debian).
>
> Ryan
>

Upstream developers build from trunk and they don't care on how to
package it cause they personally do not need it.

Upstreams don't usually have a clue in packaging and spend quite a bit
of time trying to make it build and ignoring all lintian warnings
because someone asked them to & there is no real package available in
the archive.

These upstream debanisations are usually of poor quality and can do
nasty things to your machine (static libs, auto-updating and pinging
upstream about userbase => google chrome & they do know how to package
btw so this was on purpose and not to make it fit into the system)


If some project doesn't have a package it is either new, unnoticed, or
half-broken code that it cannot justify packaging effort.

> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Daniel Hollocher
>  wrote:
>> Hey there,  have you thought about just working more closely with
>> getdeb.net?  They are doing the same thing, except it isn't restricted
>> to just multimedia packages.  Regardless, good luck.
>>
>> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Ryan Oram  wrote:
>>> End users don't want to have to add PPAs or download .deb files off of 
>>> websites.
>>>
>>> With infinityOS, users never have to leave their package management
>>> system (or Software Center really) to get programs or update them to
>>> the latest versions. This includes drivers. It works so well that I am
>>> now suggesting that downloading packages from a third-party website is
>>> a security hazard and that users should stick only to the packages
>>> provided by default in the infinityOS and Ubuntu repos. This
>>> completely eliminates the possiblity of spyware, as end-users would
>>> only download packages that have been authenticated, peer-reviewed,
>>> and tested.
>>>
>>> I would be more than happy to bring such functionality upstream to
>>> Ubuntu. I want my ideas to be used by as many people as possible.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ryan Oram
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Daniel Hollocher
>>>  wrote:
 I'm pretty sure that getdeb.net and the ppa's on launchpad satisfy
 most cravings for rolling releases.

>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In science and in mind, the impossible and the hasn't-happened-yet are
>> indistinguishable.
>>
>
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Re: Removal of PulseAudio from Ubuntu

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 May 2010 01:49, Ryan Oram  wrote:
> How many users actually use Bluetooth headsets with their computers or
> mute their browsers?
>

This one time in bandcamp when you fool around with a cool cellphone accessories

> I feel that being able to play games without having to edit text files
> or install alternate packages is much important to the average user
> then the above features.
>

Generalisation. I know plenty of people who play games and do not
know how to edit *plain* text files.

> Chances are people who want to use Bluetooth headsets and to mute
> browsers will know how to configure Linux to do so anyways.
>

I don't know how to configure Linux to do that. I use the PA sliders.
Thanks to avahi I was able to stream music to my kitchen without
editing any textfiles.

I would not be able to do this without PA.

> Thanks,
> Ryan Oram
>
> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 8:09 PM, Dylan McCall  wrote:
>> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Ryan Oram  wrote:
>>> A great overview of the problems with PulseAudio:
>>> http://www.webcitation.org/5kcZfOb4l
>>>
>>> It is 2 years old, but the facts in the article above are still
>>> completely true. PulseAudio has made essentially zero progress in the
>>> last 2 years, which is why it should be abandoned.
>>
>> I fail to see how diverging from upstream Gnome and switching audio
>> systems AGAIN would solve any problems. As it is we have gained a lot
>> from PulseAudio (eg: Bluetooth audio that we can actually expect end
>> users to use), it is quite widely adopted and it is neatly integrated
>> at this point.
>>
>> Now, granted, most things (gstreamer, canberra) are flexible and have
>> (or could have) OSS4 support, but there is some significant energy
>> required to swap these kinds of components. I think energy would be
>> better spent sorting out the higher level APIs that application
>> developers are actually meant to be using. We seem to have hundreds of
>> these bouncing around, and they are all compatible with a different
>> subset of audio frameworks. We can change underlying systems all we
>> want, but those diagrams of the audio stack will still look awful
>> because of all those libraries.
>>
>> You mention PulseAudio's high latency. I haven't followed this, but
>> does anyone know what became of rtkit? Personally I've had an
>> excellent audio experience in Lucid thus far (except for that funny
>> issue with the balance slider and indicator-sound) and I believe rtkit
>> has been merged into the kernel, but I could be mistaken about whether
>> it's being used (or useful to begin with).
>>
>> Disclaimer: I'm also quite attached to positional event sounds :)
>>
>>
>> Dylan
>>
>
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Re: Ubuntu needs a new development model

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 6 May 2010 01:38, Brandon Holtsclaw  wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-05-05 at 20:34 -0400, Daniel Hollocher wrote:
>> I'm pretty sure that getdeb.net and the ppa's on launchpad satisfy
>> most cravings for rolling releases.
>
> And Debian sid and/or Testing for that matter
>

And of course ubuntu+1

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Re: Window controls: minimise and maximise icons are confusing?

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 5 May 2010 18:58,   wrote:
> Hey, just a thought:
>
> On Lucid, after I've maximised a window and I then want to unmaximise it I
> keep finding myself pressing the minimise button instead. I think it's
> because of the icons: minimise is a down arrow and maximise is an up
> arrow, which suggests that minimise is the reverse of maximise, but it
> isn't, the reverse of maximise is unmaximise.
>

Thank you for bringing up User Experience related Issue. Ayatana team
is managing User Experience in Ubuntu. Please join
https://edge.launchpad.net/~ayatana and subcribe to their mailing list
and post your proposal there =)

Thanks.

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Re: Hide name in Indicator Applet Session

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 2 May 2010 16:55, Lorenzo De Liso  wrote:
> Il giorno dom, 02/05/2010 alle 17.42 +0200, Sebastian Geiger ha scritto:
>> Hi,
>>
>> is ist possible to hide the name of the user in the indicator applet
>> session?
>> Currently the Indicator contains the off-button a green circle and the
>> name, but the name is uncessesary and uses a lot of space, I tried right
>> clicking on it but there is no preferences option. Is there any other
>> way to hide the name so only the green circle remains? I would remove
>> the indicator completely but it is bound to the shutdown button which i
>> need.
>
> Hello,
> just do a right click on it and then select "Remove from the panel" a
> left click.
>

But this will remove the power button as well that user wants to keep.

> Regards.
>
> --
> Lorenzo De Liso
>
>
>
>
>  --
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Re: Hide name in Indicator Applet Session

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 2 May 2010 16:42, Sebastian Geiger  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> is ist possible to hide the name of the user in the indicator applet
> session?
> Currently the Indicator contains the off-button a green circle and the
> name, but the name is uncessesary and uses a lot of space, I tried right
> clicking on it but there is no preferences option. Is there any other
> way to hide the name so only the green circle remains? I would remove
> the indicator completely but it is bound to the shutdown button which i
> need.
>
> Cheers
> Lanoxx
>

You can use shutdown & log-out applets instead.

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Re: something about install g++－4.3

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

$ sudo dpkg -i $g++-4.3.deb $libstdc++6-4.3.deb

should do it =)

also see apt-on-cd package.

2010/4/16 xiaohuhu :
> hello！
>          There are somethings trouble me when I download G++.deb to install
> g++ .
> when i  install  g++-4.3.deb which is  download from the packages.ubuntu.com
> ,  it
> tell me that need to install libstdc++6-4.3.dev first.  So i download it ,
> but it require
>  g++-4.3 installed.  It get into a  bad  loop.  If i use the apt-get , It
> will ok, but i need to
> download  debs to install  another computer without network.
>         How can i make it through!
>        best wishes!
>        Thank  you!
>
>
>
> xiaohuhu
> safar...@gmail.com
>
>
>
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Re: Removal of notification area

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 23 April 2010 16:05, Aurélien Naldi  wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Davyd McColl  wrote:
>> For what it's worth, I'd like to put in 2 (perhaps long-winded) cents here.
>>
>> The short story and suggestions:
>> I think that culling the Notification Area could be problematic
>
> I also think that it may be a bit early to remove it completely.
> While I'm not involved in this, I'll try to share what I like about
> the new system.
>

Well. I guess I'm from the opposite "camp" =) I can't wait to shut
down all applets & notification area. I love envelope turning green
when my nick is mentioned in "gnome-xchat" and I love how my power
button turns red after unattended upgrade & requirement to reboot to
get new kernel. (when you click red power button you see red circular
icon next to where "Restart" was, which gets renamed to "Restart
Required...")

>
>> 2) Whilst I like the floating click-through notification concept, it doesn't
>> help for being able to tell, after being away from the desktop, when, for
>> example, I've missed an IM. I really hope no-one expects that the user
>> should have to scan all open applications for updates in lieu of a
>> "systray". Since I don't use empathy (finding it clunky, and, well, just
>> "not pidgin" enough for me and my set ways), I don't know if the user status
>> icon can show that there have been IMs since the user stepped away from her
>> desk -- but I'm assuming not? The pidgin tray icon lets me know straight
>> away.
>
> I don't use pidgin but if I recall properly, pidgin supports the new
> "message indicator", introduced in karmic. It provides a single icon
> to show unread messages for each messaging application (empathy,
> evolution, pidgin, gwibber, probably others, esp. kopete).
>

& gnome-xchat

>> 3) I've had a look at the spec at
>> http://design.canonical.com/2010/04/notification-area/ for the "menu"
>> concept, and I have to ask: what, apart from the fact that moving the mouse
>> will open another app's menu (which may actually confuse new users who don't
>> expect that) is the difference between this concept and the current
>> notification area with clickable icons? It doesn't seem all that abstracted
>> to me...
>
> IMHO, the fact that we can't switch from one menu to another in the
> panel when they belong to different applets make these menus feel
> weird (compared to the ones found in a single application). I remember
> comments about this from the gnome-panel maintener years ago saying
> that a new design would allow to fix this problem. The application
> indicators solves this but only partially as it only allows to switch
> between the menus of applications using this system. I would really
> love something working for the whole panel as we can see on macosx. My
> main critics here is that we now have single applets or notification
> icons (which don't allow switching at all) as well as several groups
> of menu inside which we can switch: the application/places/system main
> menu, the application indicators and the me/session menu.
> At least merging the message-indicator and application-indicator menus
> would much improve the situation IMHO (but would also lead to less
> flexibility WRT positioning them..).
> Another big difference between notification area is that the
> application does _NOT_ paint its menu, it only provides icons, text
> and callbacks for the available actions. Painting, positioning,
> showing the menu.. is up to the applet, which provides a much better
> desktop integration (for exemple, a kde application can use it with a
> gnome panel and the menu will use gtk, thus not feel alien or depend
> on toolkit theming hacks). In fact this is also why it is possible to
> switch between the different menus. It also makes it easier to change
> the way they are presented or they react to user input without needing
> to update each separate application (no more right-click here and
> left-click there). It will also make it much easier to build solution
> like hiding silent application, even if I would much prefer making
> good use of the available space and creative solution like grouping
> stuff like the message-indicator does than adding auto-hide featres
> which would send a message saying: you can overuse this space, we try
> to compensate for it.
> For now this system is limited to relatively simple menus but as I
> understand it, more advanced features are planned to support more
> complex needs like the network-manager applet or the clock applet.
> So it is not finished yet, but as a lucid user I must say I like the
> first step and look forward to the next one. Even if I'm also
> concerned about the risk of removing the notification area too early.
>

(in reply to this and earlier email)

I don't see why Linux can't lead the way in this respect. With
appindicator library you will just wait when Canonical or someone else
comes up with a library to support Gnome-shell, Windows & Mac. On mac
(not sure how they are called 

Re: Making notifications close-able

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

Hello

This is more appropriate for the ayatana desktop experience mailing list.

On 26 March 2010 06:44, Chandru  wrote:
> I understand that notifications are not manually close-able to avoid making
> the user take a conscious decision about notifications.  However, there are
> certain cases where user might want to immediately close the notification
> without waiting for it to time-out (certain chat messages, for example).
> To handle these cases, can't we allow manual closing of the notifications
> (say by clicking it) while still retaining the time-out based closing to
> ensure that the user can still ignore it without any difference?
> --
> Chandra Sekar.S
>

And that won't work =) cause one the design goals was to make them
"click-through" so that if your mouse is that corner and notification
appears you can still do what you wanted instead of getting confused
=)

With regards,

Dmitrijs.

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Re: cant start gksu firefox

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 4 April 2010 14:46, Michael Kappes  wrote:
> hello again all,
>
> thanks a lot for help...
>
> Am 04.04.2010 13:23, schrieb John Vivirito:
>> There is a good chance that starting Firefox as root/sudo will screw up
>> your profile as it happens a lot.
>
> i use ubuntuzilla (1)
>

Why not use ppa? ppa:ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ppa

It provides firefox 3.5, 3.6, 3.7 and similar versions of xulrunner &
thunderbird. You can have stable, next release or development if you
wish switching between them =)

Plus it's build by official ubuntu-mozilla team and exactly these
versions end up in the Ubuntu (+ ubuntu branding).

Just a though =) use binaries build for ubuntu by ubuntu on your ubuntu ;-)

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Re: cant start gksu firefox

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 4 April 2010 01:36, Tom H  wrote:
 Can you explain why gksu is a bad idea and why gksudo is better?
>
>>> gksu - executes as superuser using $HOME = /root
>>> gksudo - executes your current environment e.g. $HOME=/home/$user but
>>> with superuser priviliges.
>
>> However, on Ubuntu:
>
>> ~$ diff -as $(which gksu) $(which gksudo)
>> Files /usr/bin/gksu and /usr/bin/gksudo are identical
>
>> In fact:
>
>> ~$ ls -l $(which gksudo)
>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2010-02-27 02:03 /usr/bin/gksudo -> gksu
>
>> And if I've understood things correctly. on ubuntu gksu is originally
>> wired to instead work like gksudo by default.
>
> Using gksu or gksudo is the same thing.
>
> You can use "-w" to use su-mode (IIRC, you need to have the root
> password set) and you can use "-S" for sudo-mode (the default on
> Ubuntu, see [1] below).
>
> You can also use "-k" to preserve the environment.
>
> [1] In gconf-editor, by default,
> /apps/gksu/sudo-mode
> is set. If you untick it,
> gksu 
> will require the root password.
>

Thank you everyone. It looks like it's 2 in 1. Cause it determines
under which name it was called and outputs different help. But with
command line flags and gconf you can make it both of them work however
you like.

Something new for me for today.

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Re: cant start gksu firefox

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 3 April 2010 21:26, Nils Kassube  wrote:
> Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
>> And even worse idea to use gksu. Try
>>  gksudo. Should yield better results.
>
> Can you explain why gksu is a bad idea and why gksudo is better?
>
>
> Nils

gksu - executes as superuser using $HOME = /root
gksudo - executes your current environment e.g. $HOME=/home/$user but
with superuser priviliges.
Generally you want the latter one.

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Re: cant start gksu firefox

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 3 April 2010 18:35, Michael Kappes  wrote:
> hello devels and readers,
>
> i will start my firefox as "root" - but, it doesn't work
>
> bash:
>
>> u...@laptop:~$ gksu firefox -d

Very bad idea as a whole. And even worse idea to use gksu. Try gksudo.
Should yield better results.

/me doesn't have firefox
/me uses epiphany

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Re: 2 panels waste the height needed for web browsing on 16/10 screens

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 3 April 2010 09:58, Jérôme Bouat  wrote:
>> Ubuntu - two bar (desktop edition)
>
> The issue is that small screens are now shipped high performance laptop
> (~1000 €).
>
> On those high performance laptops, I would not use the netbook remix flavor
> but the genuine flavor of Ubuntu.
>

Using Ubuntu Desktop -> $ sudo apt-get install ubuntu-netbook-remix

It's only a couple of additional packages ontop of regular ubuntu. A
lot of people are using just the netbook launcher on their desktops
cause they like it that way.

Searching for UNR on wiki / blogs / launchpad / google will give you
loads of ways & tips how to set it up

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Re: 2 panels waste the height needed for web browsing on 16/10 screens

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 2 April 2010 15:17, Felix Miata  wrote:
> On 2010/04/02 14:01 (GMT+0200) Jérôme Bouat composed:
>> Maybe only 1 panel which includes the windows bar (like the Microsoft
>> Windows task bar) would be a good trade-off.
>
> Kubuntu - one bar
> Xubuntu - one bar

Ubuntu - one bar (netbook remix)
Ubuntu - two bar (desktop edition)

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Re: unattended-upgrade(8)

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 1 April 2010 23:34, Alexander Schrijver
 wrote:
>
> Except for the program and libraries in memory.

There is no safe way to replace anything in memory, it's buffer
overflow attack then.

> How can you ever be sure of this? For example in the case of firefox it would
> change the XUL/Javascript files. As i said, i noticed the interface would get
> messed up, but it could get messed up in a way your data couldn't be send
> anymore.
>

You can never be sure.

> I think this is a really bad policy. Most (All?) programs don't expect their
> resources to be changed while they are running. Knowingly bringing programs in
> an unknown state seems like a reallly really bad idea to me.

It's not a policy, but a default. You can comment all lines in the
config file I've mentioned before or you can $apt-get remove
unattended-upgrades if you don't like. But then it will be your
responsobility to keep your machine secure and updated.

As noted by ubuntu-mozilla there ~120 CVE reports against firefox
fixed in each release eg 4-6 months. Not all of them are pushed to
security Repository.

This default is here to keep ~3 Millions of users safe when they
install Ubuntu. As you are becoming more advanced user there are other
options available for you in Ubuntu.

Alos note data speaks better. For example Gtk issues non-critical
warnings if some of it's data files don't quite match up (eg icons
changed, non available, glade files changed) Plus those resources are
already in the memory for Gtk apps so you can delete glade files from
a running gtk app and it will continue behave normally. It might not
be able to build additional dialogs if that Gtkbuilder file is not
cached. And quite a lot of stock gnome programms they build their UI
using gtk directly without glade/gtkbuilder. Most of Ubuntu Destkop
installation is Gnome applications written to a high standard.

Can you please tell me did firefox crash for you in the end or not?

So Ubuntu decided that it is more important to keep loads of computers
updated with essential security fixes by default for a default
installation. (look on packages.ubuntu.com security subsection and
look at corresponding diffs you will notice it almost never more than
one-liners).

Obviously our unseeded packages might not be as great as apps in
*-desktop seeds so if you do find that app does not behave gracefully
because of -security update. Please file a bug.

Note this is considered more user-friendly than mandating to restart
computer, shut down applications, and install at shutdown & requiring
to do this loop a few times in a row which some other Operating
Systems do. You don't even need to restart your computer to upgrade to
a new release. (it is better though to get kernel drivers reloaded).

And again, if it doesn't seem to be appropriate for your system, then
you are free to disable unattended-upgrades on your system.

Good luck.

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Re: unattended-upgrade(8)

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

(please keep the discussion on the mailing-list always use "reply-all"
in gmail ;-) or get a getter mail client)

On 1 April 2010 22:17, Alexander Schrijver
 wrote:
>> By default it only installs -security updates. But it is configurable
>> see /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades.
>
> I am not really familiar with Ubuntu so sorry for my ignorance, but this is 
> all
> software which has security bugs?
>

Read up on help.ubuntu.com about Ubuntu archive we have a few sections
& a few repositories. I'm talking about distro repository e.g.
karmic-security. Whatever enters that by default is picked up by
unattended-upgrades.

It's not all software which has security bugs =) we don't know that.
It's all packages which have been updated and are deemed important /
high-risk security vulnerabilities  by Ubuntu security team, e.g. CVE
fixes.

>> Please use polite language =)
> okay :)
>
>> Generally you would want -security fixes as soon as possible.
>>
>> Program is still in memory and their dynamically loadable libraries as
>> well. So it is quite stable. Icons & pictorial data can become
>> inconsistent but I haven't seen unattended upgrade to crash firefox
>> yet.
>
> Not if the library would be loaded after the update has overwritten it.
> Dynamically loaded libraries can be loaded at anytime.
>

Yes but -upgrades and -security do not allow API/ABI changes / so-name
bumps. So we are safe here for majority of programming languages. Read
up about sonames. Just google.

> Isn't it more important that the program keeps running? I mean this
> theoretically could crash programs, it just seems wrong to me.
>

No. Theoretically someone can get access to your system and whipe your
whole hardrive or get you into denial of service. It is more important
to prevent you from becoming a spam sending slave then to prevent
programs from crashing. Also dpkg writes files atomically so in the
file system for a given package you either have old files & new files
or pending / unavailable (e.g. python). And there are no soname
changes in these upgrades. So there has been a lot of work done to
make it as harmless as possible.

Crashing programs is not a problem. Loosing user data is, like for
example the email you have been typing in the browser for an hour is
important that why programs are not shudown. Just because firefox
looks weird it doesn't prevent you to save the email into draft before
restarting firefox.

>> Also if you have low disk space things can get really interesting. I
>> once had less than 100MiB left on my harddrive and Firefox & Gtk look
>> really funky =) So is your free disk space fine?
>
> Yeah that is no problem.
>
>> I think I explained it in detail =)
>
> Yes, thank you for your answer :)
>

Your welcome.

>> security only & you get a popup
>> that firefox needs restarting after you as a user decide when to do
>> it. Because user data in the browser is important.
>
> But this is after the upgrade has been installed? Because the program could
> have potentially crashed.
>

Potentially anything can happen =) but because of dpkg & sonames &
ldconfig and massive testing of security fixes & them actually being
really small crashing is hightly unlickly.

If firefox did crash on upgrade instead of "firefox needs restarting"
you will get "firefox has just crashed" and apport will kick in to
start collecting backtraces to send a bug report to launchpad ;-)

> Regards,
>
> Alexander
>

See ya =)

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Re: unattended-upgrade(8)

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 1 April 2010 20:02, Alexander Schrijver
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> unattended-upgrade(8) is called via /etc/cron.daily/apt and this is seems to 
> be
> the default Ubuntu configuration. This script automatically installs package
> upgrades without notifying the user.
>

By default it only installs -security updates. But it is configurable
see /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades.

> The problem is that if a user is running for example firefox (or any other
> program with external resources) this script would overwrite the resources on
> disk but the program would still be in memory. This brings the program in an
> unknown state, and potentially crash it. I tried this with Firefox and it 
> fucks
> up the user interface. But if the program would load a dynamically loadable
> library things would get really fucked up.
>

Please use polite language =)

>From my experience i get a notification saying firefox needs
restarting after unattended-upgrade happens. Not long time ago I've
stopped using daily firefox builds and switched to epiphany so please
confirm which version of Ubuntu you are using and whether you use
ppas.

Generally you would want -security fixes as soon as possible.

Program is still in memory and their dynamically loadable libraries as
well. So it is quite stable. Icons & pictorial data can become
inconsistent but I haven't seen unattended upgrade to crash firefox
yet.

Also if you have low disk space things can get really interesting. I
once had less than 100MiB left on my harddrive and Firefox & Gtk look
really funky =) So is your free disk space fine?


> My question is, how is this supposed to work, because this seems really messed
> up.
>

I think I explained it in detail =) security only & you get a popup
that firefox needs restarting after you as a user decide when to do
it. Because user data in the browser is important.

> Regards,
>
> Alexander
>

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Re: If Luicd ia a LTS......

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

Hardy -> Lucid upgrade will not be enabled on day 0. Latest plans I've
read (maybe changed since then) is that LTS upgrade will start with
10.04.1 which will bring us a few bugfixes after the release.

>From Developers point of view Lucid is looking very solid and on
track. I'm running Ubuntu though.

So you should consider Lucid to become LTS with 10.04.1

And thank you for filing bugs =) keep them coming.

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Re: Bug: python2.5-minimal

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 15 March 2010 15:48,   wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I am using this list for my bug report because using "ubuntu-bug" did not 
> work. I could not establish a connection to the bug database (continuous 
> errors).
>

You can try https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug in your
browser to file bugs in the future

> My bug report is as follows:
>
> Richte python2.5-minimal ein (2.5.4-1ubuntu6.1) ...
> Linking and byte-compiling packages for runtime python2.5...
> /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Onboard/KeyboardSVG.py:104: Warning: 'with' 
> will become a reserved keyword in Python 2.6
> Compiling /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Onboard/KeyboardSVG.py ...
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/Onboard/KeyboardSVG.py", line 104
>    with open(pane_svg_filename) as svg_file:
>            ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>

After quick search I've found this
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/onboard/+bug/460389
This is a known bug in onboard package and fixed in lucid.

If you can try lucid's package. if not comment on that bug saying that
you want this in karmic-backports.

With regards

Dima.

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Trouble with 32 bit Gtk app on 64 bit system - no or misleading error msgs

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 14 March 2010 22:40, Thomas Tempelmann  wrote:
> Hi there,
> this is my first post. I've signed up here because I have a particular
> problem I like to discuss with the developers.
>
> I'm a long-time software developer, although I'm not a big fan of Unix and
> derivates. I am mostly developing for OS X, and used to do for classic Mac
> OS, so I'm more of a autmatic tools user than a user of command line tools.
>
>
> Anyway. I've created a 32 bit application that uses Gtk 2, which launches
> fine on the 32 Bit Ubuntu 9.10 default installation.
>
> But when I launch the same app on the 64 bit Ubuntu version, the following
> things happen:
>

There is quite a huge difference between Mac-O binaries and linux elf
binaries and how the libraries are linked.

On mac most binaries are compiled to be "fat" meaning that 32 & 64 bit
versions are compiled and merged into final binary. Similar thing is
done with libraries as well. That's why when you compile on mac you
generally can run binary on both 32 & 64 bit macs. That's why there
are apps like trim the fat which can save about ~6-9 GB of space.

On linux we are not doing fat binaries =) You can use pbuilder / qemu
or launchpad PPA to compile two binaries: 32 & 64 bit.

> 1.
>  When launching by double clicking it within the Explorer (sorry, haven't
> figured out the name of the UI desktop app yet), _nothing_ happens. Not even
> a error message popping up. This is, IMO, something that should be fixed,
> i.e. that the user needs to get some kind of response telling him that his
> attempt to launch the app was actually understood.
>

On Ubuntu default file manager is Nautilus.

I don't think an error is needed. Generally on Ubuntu you launch
.desktop files of applications installed using Software Centre /
Synaptic / apt. All of which are of correct architecture.


> 2.
>  When launching it from the Terminal, the only message I get is "bash:
> ./appname: No such file or directory".
>
> Now, this is a bad error message as well. The file exists and is executable.
> So, the error message should be something like "required lib .. not found"
> or "this executable has no code for this architecture" or whatever. But not
> a message saying "there is no file".
>

Dunno did you run this command from the folder the binary is located?
I'll try some 64bit arch binaries in terminal to see if I get that
error message. Cause I thought the error was something else.

> So, is there a chance that this gets fixed/improved without me actually
> having to do that (I won't, I've got other problems, thank you :) ?
> If so, where should I address this issue, or does this post already make it
> into the bug DB even, magically?
>
>

No there is no magic which scans mailing lists and files bug in
launchpad =) This type of request might actually be marked invalid.

It is more idea or wish of how to make ubuntu better and is more
suited for Brainstrom. http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/

> BTW, I'm still stuck solving this problem, i.e. getting the right libs
> installed so that this app eventually launches (no, I can not build a 64 bit
> version of this app, just believe me), and so I installed, as a first step,
> the "ia32-libs". This, in fact, made the misleading error msg in Terminal go
> away, replaced by a similarly useless "segmentation fault" without any
> further info even in which context this happened, and again with no error
> msg when double clicking the app in Explorer. Any suggestions how I could
> get at least some more information so that I can figure out which other 32
> bit libs are missing?
>
>

How come you can't build it on AMD64? Sounds like a bug in that
software. And do use ldd as suggested in previous mail to find all of
the missing 32 bit libs needed for your binary.

Is it not free software?

With regards, Dima.

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Re: package fluid - build error

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

(please note this mailing list is for discussing about developing
ubuntu and not helping users with build problems on unfamiliar
platforms ;-) but I'm not sure which mailing list to suggest for this
so here are my $0.02)

On 1 March 2010 20:24, Schoap D  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When I build fluid http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/fluid
> on opensuse buildservice https://build.opensuse.org/ it fails to
> build. It looks like there is something wrong in the source. See
> attachment for logfile
>

I didn't know that opensuse buildservice supports Debian/Ubuntu =) Wow.

> /usr/bin/htmldoc: error while loading shared libraries:
> libfltk_images.so.1.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or
> directory
>

The problem starts earlier though:

"installing htmldoc
dpkg: htmldoc: dependency problems, but configuring anyway as you requested:
 htmldoc depends on libfltk1.1 (>= 1.1.6); however:
  Package libfltk1.1 is not installed."

> How to solve this?
>

You need to somehow have libfltk package already available to your
build environment. Such that you can successfully install htmldoc and
hence generate docs and get the build finished. I think it's a problem
with the ubuntu archive on Opensuse buildservice.

Why are you using opensuse build service and trying to build this
package? Try using PPA on launchpad.net and it has full ubuntu archive
available already and there are more people who can provide you
support/advice with using PPA's.

> Thanks in advance,
> ~D

Your welcome.

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Re: 10.04 Alpha

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

2010/2/22 Andrés Baldrich :
> Hello, I've searched in launchpad and asked in the forums. So far I have not
> found a way to report a bug that is not caused by an application.
> I have set the default automatic graphical log in. But it asks me the
> password before connecting to the internet. Since I've installed Lucid
> Alpha, if I press enter in stead of clicking "accept", it freezes everything
> and I have to reboot. I cant even quit the GUI session.
>

The password is asked by PolicyKit to unlock gnome-keyring.

https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-keyring

In my wifi connection settings I have "connect automatically" and
"available to all users" checked. This way I don't need to type any
password (my login or wifi network one) to connect to the internet.

> The same freezing happens sometimes, when:
> 1) I open Firefox too quickly and the "connection established" message is
> not gone.
> 2) Try to load any page, as soon as I click or press enter, boom. 100% non
> responsive.
>
> Andres Baldrich
>

Not sure about this. Browse the bugs for gnome-keyring?

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Re: User friendly dpkg errors

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

On 23 January 2010 02:01, Ryan Dwyer  wrote:
> What are the chances of having these error messages changed?
> Before:
> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily
> unavailable)
> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another
> process using it?
> After:
> Something like "You have another package manager running. Please close it
> and run this command again."
> Before:
> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission
> denied)
> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you
> root?
> After:
> Something like "You must run this command as root."
> Many newbies are instructed to run commands in a terminal. For many, it's
> probably the first time they've ever used one. Getting an error about locks,
> administration, and a directory they've never heard of wouldn't give them a
> good impression.
> Although the error messages are pretty straightforward, users are having
> problems understanding what they mean as shown in Launchpad Answers and the
> Ubuntu Forums.
> Here are some examples, both within the last 24 hours:
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1387762&page=2
> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/98243 (scroll down)
> -Ryan


The rest of the dpkg output is less then friendly as well - Reading
Database, Unpacking, preparing, setting up, processing triggers,
unpacking again.. It would be great if some kind of bzr like
progress indicator would be shown (e.g. done 31/105 tasks) and then
spit out the errors in full glory when they happen.


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Google Calendar for Other Projects

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

Hello all

Not sure who to ask.

Can someone please create another Google Calendar with the same
editing policy as Fridge for the use on
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OtherProjectSchedules ?

I'll be happy to keep it updated.

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Re: Removing Ubuntu releases, just Ubuntu

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

2010/1/15 Aitor Pazos :
> While this approach is OK in the desktop world it might not be the same
> in server's area. In servers world it might be better to keep the
> distribution's model; where each package's version don't change during
> supported period.
>

Unfortunately this is not possible for Ubuntu yet. ChromeOS in
simplistic view is 1 application + kernel & drivers all compiled into
a firmware. Ubuntu is 2+ packages available in infinite amount of
user configurations. Hence running Ubuntu development in continuing
mode will be quite dramatic for users. with many packages
continuity being broken or uninstallable.

Have you ever tried running development release from day 1? I do it in
VM and in no way it is usable as everyday desktop.

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Re: retrieving package related information

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

2009/12/23 Patrick Freundt :
> Basically, I am looking for a source of information like
> karmic-chan...@lists but I am unsure, if that list is notified
> on security updates aswell. And I am hoping for another
> way similar to Debian's Package Tracking System so I
> could select what information I want for only a limited
> number of packages.
>
> P.
>

Go to http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/
Find package and then you can subscribe to it's bugmail.

Not sure if that will give the "new version uploaded" notification though.


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Re: Introduction to Ubuntu Distributed Development

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

Wehn we are discussing $VCS to manage packages it is really about the
tools associated with them.

In git that's topgit + git-buildpackage. In hg that MQ + recently
restarted hg+buildpackage. And the famous pristine-tar.

It is important (for me at least) to still be able to generate debdiff
and be able to reproduce each version.

In addition you have to consider DebSrc 3.0 (quilt) (approved for
Debian, in final stages for Ubuntu) and DebSrc 3.0 (git/bzr).

hg/MQ is probably the closest to DebSrc 3.0 (quilt) - MQ is like
loom/threads which when applied are stored as series of quilt patches.

Topgit is a full DAG which is quite confusing (for me personally) and
the generated final package is not stored. (You keep branches unmerged
and export patches). IMHO this is bad cause I still want to $vsc
$build $tag.

Bzr is ok for building packages and keeping the history right.

What makes Ubuntu different from typical package maintanance is that
we are based on Debian. And we usually have upstream -> debian patches
-> debian-packaging -> ubuntu patches -> ubuntu packaging. WIth small
amount of packages being just upstream -> ubuntu patches -> ubuntu
packaging when we take a different policy direction from debian.

Git/Hg do not support that directly without cheating. Bzr and
associate tools are the only once so far which try to support this
workflow.

Upstreams should use whatever $vcs is appropriate for them (reasons
are often not seconds for $command execution but community, developer
familiarity, integration with other tools, cost of switching. Just
read up on gnome switching to DVCS and KDE. The biggest blockers were
and are i18n and l10n.)

I do believe upstreams should tag a release commit, branch it, run
./autogen or similar, commit everything, and add pristine-tar delta.
Such that Distro packaging can base packaging ontop of that branch and
still be able to easily cherry-pick / submit changesets back.

On this front UDD is the only one so-far aiming to get there.

I do wish as well for Autofoo to just die such that we can use e.g.
waf where there are much less difference between what you keep in vcs
and what ends up in the tarball.

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Re: Introduction to Ubuntu Distributed Development

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

2009/12/17 Adrian Perez :
> Your point is accurate.
> But you might agree that work was accomplished by several people, and
> not a single person. No need to tell us that you need a Git-enable infra
> to compare with, when you know that can't be accomplished without the
> community support as has the bzr one evolved from both canonical and the
> community itself.
> I'm not aware of the exact numbers, but I think you could find more
> packages on git.debian.org than on bzr.debian.org; take that as an
> example.

Quite a few Debian teams host on lp instead of bzr.debian.org.


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Re: Bug#559761: ITP: release -- provides information about the current releases

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

2009/12/9 Paul Smith :
> On Mon, 2009-12-07 at 00:14 +0100, Benjamin Drung wrote:
>> Package: wnpp
>> Severity: wishlist
>> Owner: Benjamin Drung 
>>
>> * Package name    : release
>>   Version         : 0.1 (native)
>>   Upstream Author : Benjamin Drung 
>> * License         : GPL v3+
>>   Programming Lang: Python
>>   Description     : provides information about the current releases
>>
>>  This package contains information about all releases of Debian and
>> Ubuntu. The
>>  release script will give you the codename for e.g. the latest stable
>> release of
>>  your distribution. To get information about a specific distribution
>> there are
>>  the debian-release and the ubuntu-release scripts.
>
> I wonder what the difference is between this and the existing, standard
> lsb_release command.
>
> I'm not saying we shouldn't create a new package, if lsb_release is not
> sufficient for some reason.  I'm just not sure what the reason is.  Can
> someone write up a few sentences about what this package does that makes
> it necessary, instead of using lsb_release?
>
> Cheers!
>

It is similar tool. lsb_release shows the info about the release you
are currently running. The proposed tool will show current stable &
developing releases for Ubuntu & Debian.

So that if you want to upload to Ubuntu it will tell you what's the
current development release is.

There are intentions to make other tools use it as well. Such that new
codename will be needed to update only in one place and all revelevent
packaging tools & scripts will pick it up.


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Re: Downgrading packages after removing a repository

[Dmitrijs Ledkovs]

2009/8/1 Andrew Sayers :
> When you add a repository to your computer, then remove that repository,
> it's not obvious how to downgrade packages that are no longer available.
>

https://edge.launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa/+files/ppa-purge_0.2.2~jaunty.dsc

Removes a ppa and downgrades that was pulled from it.

AWESOME =)

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