Re: [ubuntu/bionic-proposed] update-manager 1:18.04.11 (Accepted)
On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 09:21:19PM +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote: > What I feel like should happen is to automatically generate compulsory > metadata in appstream generator from task fields or something. That could be done, but not from Task fields in isolation IMO. For ubuntu-desktop we have most applications as recommends, not depends, precisely because we want people to be able to remove them. Indeed this cycle we added a new "minimal" option to the installer that makes use of this. For *dependencies* of the metapackage, though, generating compulsory_for_desktop metadata makes sense. You just need to know what to generate it for: the $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP value for the seed's corresponding desktop session. It'd probably have to be a hardcoded list, I guess, and appstream-generator could consider this as an additional data source when it generates a particular component. A slight variant is that it would also be possible to generate this out of band (but probably on the same machine as runs the appstream-generator so that it can be easily fetched by LP) and ship a new "merge" type AppStream file through the archive. In that case we'd also need an apt.conf.d snippet to cause it to be downloaded. FAOD I don't plan to work on this, but I could discuss & review a change. Cheers, -- Iain Lane [ i...@orangesquash.org.uk ] Debian Developer [ la...@debian.org ] Ubuntu Developer [ la...@ubuntu.com ] signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: [ubuntu/bionic-proposed] update-manager 1:18.04.11 (Accepted)
On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 09:21:19PM +0200, Julian Andres Klode wrote: > > I am concerned about the model here by which individual packages need to add > > blobs of metadata on the filesystem to declare themselves "not for removal". > > This is completely disconnected from the existing logic for managing > > metapackages, which is expressed through the central Packages files and > > apt's logic for metapackage dependencies. > > Why is GNOME Software removing dependencies of packages /at all/? Why are > > the decisions about dependency removal not being delegated to apt, instead > > of being reimplemented poorly? > I don't believe PackageKit/GNOME Software does anything different here. > What happens is that e.g. ubuntu-desktop depends on nautilus, but if you > remove nautilus, ubuntu-desktop is removed too. That's the same in APT > and PackageKit. > What I feel like should happen is to automatically generate compulsory > metadata in appstream generator from task fields or something. Agreed. This would also address the problem that appstream data will again become out of date whenever an app is dropped from a seed. So how do we make this happen? -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: [ubuntu/bionic-proposed] update-manager 1:18.04.11 (Accepted)
On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 12:17:16PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 02:53:13PM -0400, Jeremy Bicha wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Brian Murray wrote: > > > Why is it necessary to modify individual packages so that GNOME > > > Software won't uninstall them? > > > > Is update-manager being a dependency of ubuntu-desktop not enough to > > > prevent it from being uninstalled? > > > Thank you for asking. > > > GNOME Software does not notify the user about dependencies that will > > be uninstalled. Packages and dependencies are details that are not > > exposed at all to users of GNOME Software. > > > > If it is necessary to modify every package which a metapackage depends > > > on how is this work being tracked? > > > Nothing is tracking this. I am making sure that the AppStream metadata > > is in place and set correctly for ubuntu-desktop only. The apps that > > are depends of ubuntu-desktop are gnome-control-center, nautilus, > > software-properties-gtk, update-manager, and yelp. Recommends are not > > a problem as they can be removed without removing the metapackage. > > > (I have also removed the compulsory-for-GNOME tag from epiphany and totem.) > > > This has been an issue since Ubuntu 16.04 LTS but it wasn't a big > > enough priority to anyone to fix until now. > > > I wasn't planning on backporting this to 16.04 but it could be done by > > someone. > > I am concerned about the model here by which individual packages need to add > blobs of metadata on the filesystem to declare themselves "not for removal". > This is completely disconnected from the existing logic for managing > metapackages, which is expressed through the central Packages files and > apt's logic for metapackage dependencies. > > Why is GNOME Software removing dependencies of packages /at all/? Why are > the decisions about dependency removal not being delegated to apt, instead > of being reimplemented poorly? I don't believe PackageKit/GNOME Software does anything different here. What happens is that e.g. ubuntu-desktop depends on nautilus, but if you remove nautilus, ubuntu-desktop is removed too. That's the same in APT and PackageKit. What I feel like should happen is to automatically generate compulsory metadata in appstream generator from task fields or something. -- debian developer - deb.li/jak | jak-linux.org - free software dev ubuntu core developer i speak de, en -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: [ubuntu/bionic-proposed] update-manager 1:18.04.11 (Accepted)
On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 02:53:13PM -0400, Jeremy Bicha wrote: > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Brian Murray wrote: > > Why is it necessary to modify individual packages so that GNOME > > Software won't uninstall them? > > Is update-manager being a dependency of ubuntu-desktop not enough to > > prevent it from being uninstalled? > Thank you for asking. > GNOME Software does not notify the user about dependencies that will > be uninstalled. Packages and dependencies are details that are not > exposed at all to users of GNOME Software. > > If it is necessary to modify every package which a metapackage depends > > on how is this work being tracked? > Nothing is tracking this. I am making sure that the AppStream metadata > is in place and set correctly for ubuntu-desktop only. The apps that > are depends of ubuntu-desktop are gnome-control-center, nautilus, > software-properties-gtk, update-manager, and yelp. Recommends are not > a problem as they can be removed without removing the metapackage. > (I have also removed the compulsory-for-GNOME tag from epiphany and totem.) > This has been an issue since Ubuntu 16.04 LTS but it wasn't a big > enough priority to anyone to fix until now. > I wasn't planning on backporting this to 16.04 but it could be done by > someone. I am concerned about the model here by which individual packages need to add blobs of metadata on the filesystem to declare themselves "not for removal". This is completely disconnected from the existing logic for managing metapackages, which is expressed through the central Packages files and apt's logic for metapackage dependencies. Why is GNOME Software removing dependencies of packages /at all/? Why are the decisions about dependency removal not being delegated to apt, instead of being reimplemented poorly? -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: [ubuntu/bionic-proposed] update-manager 1:18.04.11 (Accepted)
On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 02:53:13PM -0400, Jeremy Bicha wrote: > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Brian Murray wrote: > > Why is it necessary to modify individual packages so that GNOME > > Software won't uninstall them? > > > > Is update-manager being a dependency of ubuntu-desktop not enough to > > prevent it from being uninstalled? > > Thank you for asking. > > GNOME Software does not notify the user about dependencies that will > be uninstalled. Packages and dependencies are details that are not > exposed at all to users of GNOME Software. > > > If it is necessary to modify every package which a metapackage depends > > on how is this work being tracked? > > Nothing is tracking this. I am making sure that the AppStream metadata > is in place and set correctly for ubuntu-desktop only. The apps that > are depends of ubuntu-desktop are gnome-control-center, nautilus, > software-properties-gtk, update-manager, and yelp. Recommends are not > a problem as they can be removed without removing the metapackage. Won't this same work, setting up AppStream metadata, need to happen for every Ubuntu flavor that includes GNOME software? [I just tried uninstalling abiword on a Lubuntu 18.04 system and lubuntu-desktop was also removed.] Is there no way to sort this out in GNOME software? -- Brian Murray -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: [ubuntu/bionic-proposed] update-manager 1:18.04.11 (Accepted)
On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Brian Murray wrote: > Why is it necessary to modify individual packages so that GNOME > Software won't uninstall them? > > Is update-manager being a dependency of ubuntu-desktop not enough to > prevent it from being uninstalled? Thank you for asking. GNOME Software does not notify the user about dependencies that will be uninstalled. Packages and dependencies are details that are not exposed at all to users of GNOME Software. > If it is necessary to modify every package which a metapackage depends > on how is this work being tracked? Nothing is tracking this. I am making sure that the AppStream metadata is in place and set correctly for ubuntu-desktop only. The apps that are depends of ubuntu-desktop are gnome-control-center, nautilus, software-properties-gtk, update-manager, and yelp. Recommends are not a problem as they can be removed without removing the metapackage. (I have also removed the compulsory-for-GNOME tag from epiphany and totem.) This has been an issue since Ubuntu 16.04 LTS but it wasn't a big enough priority to anyone to fix until now. I wasn't planning on backporting this to 16.04 but it could be done by someone. Jeremy Bicha -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
