Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ebook reader?
On Monday, 2013-05-20, Stuart Langridge wrote: On Sat 18 May 2013 18:41:34 BST, Kevin Krammer wrote: On Friday, 2013-05-17, Stuart Langridge wrote: It is somewhere in between impossible and very nearly impossible to write a book reader in pure QML for Ubuntu Touch right now, sadly. Well, QtQuick (assuming you wanted to refer to that UI framework when you wrote QML) is a UI framework, not a data processing or application framework. Those pieces are supplied by C++ code just like QtQuick itself being implemented in C++. Speaking purely for myself here, I don't agree with this. I know that a lot of experienced long-time Qt programmers think that apps should be written in C++ with Qt Quick solely as a presentation layer, but I personally believe that the more it can be possible to write apps using QML and JavaScript alone, with no compilation step or C++ requires, the more it becomes possible to engage developers in building for the platform. I see your point but I was specifically addressing QtQuick which is solely a presentation layer, not QML generically. However, QtQuick as one of the available type sets for QML shows that certain things are best implemented in C++, exposed to the QML scene as ready-to-use building blocks. The more type sets you have available as part of the platform, the less often application developers will have to create their own. In this case my impression was that there are currently not components for rendering certain type of documents, neither into a QtQuick element nor into a buffer. One important thing to keep in mind is that the JavaScript parts of QML is not the same thing as JavaScript for Qt scripting, i.e. focused on the needs of QML. While it is currently using V8, a very capable and extensive engine, there are considerations to create a custom egine, codenamed V4, that is reduced to work for the QML use case but does not incur the problems V8 and other full engines have, e.g. not allowed on restricted platforms like iOS. I certainly acknowledge that that's not entirely possible right now, that there will always be a space for C++ plugins, and that the platform should probably not grow to encompass all things! However, I'd like to see Qt Quick, and the Ubuntu SDK, extend more capability than it currently does to JavaScript programmers. The web is working out the same way: using HTML and JavaScript as a presentation layer only certainly works, but more and more capability is extended to programmers in those environments without having to fall back on a more capable environment server-side. True, but in the case of HTML/JavaScript the browsers provide a closed system that is not really expandable by anyone than the browser vendor so they need to provide the option of adding functionality otherwise. Henvce their strive to provide better and better JS engines, even if that means not being able to provide the browser for certain locked down platforms. Qt, as a framework that others build upon cannot as easily afford to pass on those platforms but since it provides other means of extending the provided features set it can compromise in scripting capability and there have been hints that they are at least investigating into that direction. like that with Qt Quick; what's preventing that is not a large technical chasm between the two, but a few trivial items such as QML's XMLHttpRequest not supporting some of the XMLHttpRequest v2 API that deals with binary data. As Kevin says here, one way to do this is to put most of the logic of an ebook app in C++ and compile for each platform, and that's indeed what I suggested in my original mail... but I'd love to see the final few tweaks happen to allow an app such as an ebook reader to be writeable without compiling anything, in the same way that a good proportion of the already existing Ubuntu Touch apps are also pure Qt Quick. Sure, the very core concept of QML is to be agnostic of where the types developer can use come from. Whether the types are registered by the application startup code, by the application package or the platform doesn't matter. So if registered by the application startup code is undesired, i.e. the application should be started by a generic runner, then this still leaves the last two options. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ebook reader?
On Sat 18 May 2013 18:41:34 BST, Kevin Krammer wrote: On Friday, 2013-05-17, Stuart Langridge wrote: It is somewhere in between impossible and very nearly impossible to write a book reader in pure QML for Ubuntu Touch right now, sadly. Well, QtQuick (assuming you wanted to refer to that UI framework when you wrote QML) is a UI framework, not a data processing or application framework. Those pieces are supplied by C++ code just like QtQuick itself being implemented in C++. Speaking purely for myself here, I don't agree with this. I know that a lot of experienced long-time Qt programmers think that apps should be written in C++ with Qt Quick solely as a presentation layer, but I personally believe that the more it can be possible to write apps using QML and JavaScript alone, with no compilation step or C++ requires, the more it becomes possible to engage developers in building for the platform. I certainly acknowledge that that's not entirely possible right now, that there will always be a space for C++ plugins, and that the platform should probably not grow to encompass all things! However, I'd like to see Qt Quick, and the Ubuntu SDK, extend more capability than it currently does to JavaScript programmers. The web is working out the same way: using HTML and JavaScript as a presentation layer only certainly works, but more and more capability is extended to programmers in those environments without having to fall back on a more capable environment server-side. Qt Quick apps have the distinct advantage of being native and therefore having access to some native capability. Taking the example of Monocle that I mentioned, it's entirely possible to write an ebook reader in pure client-side JavaScript in modern browsers right now. I'd love to be able to work like that with Qt Quick; what's preventing that is not a large technical chasm between the two, but a few trivial items such as QML's XMLHttpRequest not supporting some of the XMLHttpRequest v2 API that deals with binary data. As Kevin says here, one way to do this is to put most of the logic of an ebook app in C++ and compile for each platform, and that's indeed what I suggested in my original mail... but I'd love to see the final few tweaks happen to allow an app such as an ebook reader to be writeable without compiling anything, in the same way that a good proportion of the already existing Ubuntu Touch apps are also pure Qt Quick. sil -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ebook reader?
on a more capable environment server-side. Qt Quick apps have the distinct advantage of being native and therefore having access to some native capability. Taking the example of Monocle that I mentioned, it's entirely possible to write an ebook reader in pure client-side JavaScript in modern browsers right now. I'd love to be able to work like that with Qt Quick; To what degree is 'first class support for HTML5 apps' is there today in Ubuntu Touch? Wouldn't an existing JavaScript ebook reader like the one you mention do what you want? In the long run it would seem strange to me to have both a JavaScript/HTML5 and a QML alternative written for many popular apps given that the former will need to work anyway on most platforms. Jani -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ebook reader?
Hey, On Friday 17 May 2013 13:53:05 Andrew Fullam wrote: I was wondering if there is anyone currently working on an ebook reader for ubuntu touch? I have an empty house all weekend so I was looking to take a stab at it if no one has already undertaken the task? Doesn't look like there is one. But better walk through the list yourself. The names are not always descriptive and I didn't click on all the links: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Collection Cheers, Michael -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Ebook reader?
I haven't seen an e-reader app yet. I had started working on one, but ran into the problems noted by Stuart Landridge. From the discussion on the mailing list here: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg01530.htmlit appears that there has been at least some discussion among the developers about having an e-reader as a core app for tablets, once we've gotten to that point, but I'll defer to the Canonical guys who're already participating in this thread to flesh that out. On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Andrew Fullam andrew.ful...@live.co.ukwrote: Hey guys, I was wondering if there is anyone currently working on an ebook reader for ubuntu touch? I have an empty house all weekend so I was looking to take a stab at it if no one has already undertaken the task? Thanks Andrew -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-**phonehttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.**netubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-**phonehttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone Post to : ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
