Re: Upgrade 6.06 LTS --> 8.04 LTS

2007-10-19 Thread Tollef Fog Heen
* Soren Hansen 

| On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 12:23:11PM -0500, Michael Hipp wrote:
| > My understanding is that the next version of Ubuntu (8.04?) will be an 
| > LTS release.
| 
| That's right.
| 
| > What will be the upgrade procedure/policy from the current LTS
| > release?
| > 
| > - Can I upgrade in one step from 6.06 -> 8.04?
| 
| Yes. Hardy will be a special release in this respect since we'll be
| support upgrading from both 7.10 and 6.06. It is not trivial, but it's a
| high priority for us.

Note that you might well be required to use the dist-upgrader rather
than just doing apt-get dist-upgrade.

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Re: Upgrade 6.06 LTS --> 8.04 LTS

2007-10-18 Thread Michael Hipp
Soren Hansen wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 12:23:11PM -0500, Michael Hipp wrote:
>> My understanding is that the next version of Ubuntu (8.04?) will be an 
>> LTS release.
> 
> That's right.
> 
>> What will be the upgrade procedure/policy from the current LTS
>> release?
>>
>> - Can I upgrade in one step from 6.06 -> 8.04?
> 
> Yes. Hardy will be a special release in this respect since we'll be
> support upgrading from both 7.10 and 6.06. It is not trivial, but it's a
> high priority for us.
> 
>> (I'm only speaking of server releases, not desktop.)
> 
> I actually belive desktops will have the same options, but I'm not the
> one to say that, though :)

Thanks, Soren. Good news all the way around.

To the idea that such upgrades shouldn't be attempted, but should do a 
clean install. That's certainly would be preferred ... in a perfect 
world, that is. Reality is that it isn't feasible in many cases.

And I submit that release upgrades ought to be a "must have" feature of 
any distro worthy of being considered for production server use. IMHO.

Michael


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Re: Upgrade 6.06 LTS --> 8.04 LTS

2007-10-18 Thread Soren Hansen
On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 01:40:09PM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> The plan is 6.06 -> 8.04.  I recently did a 6.06 -> 7.10 upgrade as an
> experiment and I was able to get there, but not easily.  There's a lot
> of work to be done, so personally, I'm not holding my breath.

If you remember the issues you saw, please start filing bugs about it
already now and tag them with something like "dappertohardy". This needs
to work at least as well as a "regular" upgrade.

> Actually 6.06 -> 6.10 -> 8.04 would be substantially easier because
> then the sysv-init to upstart transition is done before you leap into
> the unknown.

If the transition magic has not survived this far, someone needs a good
kickin'! It most certainly ought to work.

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Ubuntu Server Team
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Re: Upgrade 6.06 LTS --> 8.04 LTS

2007-10-18 Thread Soren Hansen
On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 12:23:11PM -0500, Michael Hipp wrote:
> My understanding is that the next version of Ubuntu (8.04?) will be an 
> LTS release.

That's right.

> What will be the upgrade procedure/policy from the current LTS
> release?
> 
> - Can I upgrade in one step from 6.06 -> 8.04?

Yes. Hardy will be a special release in this respect since we'll be
support upgrading from both 7.10 and 6.06. It is not trivial, but it's a
high priority for us.

> (I'm only speaking of server releases, not desktop.)

I actually belive desktops will have the same options, but I'm not the
one to say that, though :)

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Ubuntu Server Team
http://www.ubuntu.com/


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Re: Upgrade 6.06 LTS --> 8.04 LTS

2007-10-18 Thread Neal McBurnett
On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 10:16:03PM +0200, Michael Willenbuecher wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Alexandro Silva wrote:
> > I believe that better form is a new installation, is very dangerous to
> > do this type of procedure in a production environment.
> 
> i was asking myself exactly the same question lately. given the fact that 
> in productive environments servers are running for years and years, the 
> lts looses its sense, if i cannot upgrade from say 6.06 to 8.04. servers 
> tend to become very differentiated buildings in time which may not that 
> easy been build again from scratch. so upgrading to the next productive
> version seems crucial to me as a criteria for longterm reliability of a 
> distri. that was the reason for us to run debian since last century 
> despite of its outmodedness especially at the end of a release circle. for 
> ubuntuserver that seems to be an important point in the long run for its 
> standing in the servermarket. it shouldnt become the flipside of the 
> desktopsuccess hopefully.

Right and right - I suspect admins will want both options.  So some
wiki pages that describe the easiest way to do them both would be
handy.

I expect that many folks with production servers would replicate
the old server to another machine, upgrade the other machine,
test it, and then put it in production.

Documentation that would help (much of this exists, but could be
linked together under the LTS upgrade heading):

 reinstall option:

   how to get the same set of packages on the new machine

   how to identify all your configuration changes and incorporate
them in the new machine.  some will be easy, some hard

 upgrade option:

   which packages upgrade easily, which are harder

 testing tools - some recommendations and examples of ways to automate
 tests of various services: web, mail, directory, etc.

Will we have a slot to discuss this at UDS?  Is there a blueprint?

Neal McBurnett http://mcburnett.org/neal/



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Re: Upgrade 6.06 LTS --> 8.04 LTS

2007-10-18 Thread Michael Willenbuecher
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Alexandro Silva wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> I believe that better form is a new installation, is very dangerous to
> do this type of procedure in a production environment.

Hi all,

i was asking myself exactly the same question lately. given the fact that 
in productive environments servers are running for years and years, the 
lts looses its sense, if i cannot upgrade from say 6.06 to 8.04. servers 
tend to become very differentiated buildings in time which may not that 
easy been build again from scratch. so upgrading to the next productive
version seems crucial to me as a criteria for longterm reliability of a 
distri. that was the reason for us to run debian since last century 
despite of its outmodedness especially at the end of a release circle. for 
ubuntuserver that seems to be an important point in the long run for its 
standing in the servermarket. it shouldnt become the flipside of the 
desktopsuccess hopefully.

regards
mw

   ---
Michael Willenbuecher
Systemadministration
Helmholtz-Zentrum fuer Kulturtechnik
Humboldt-Universitaet Berlin
+49(0)30-2093-2715
http://www2.hu-berlin.de/kulturtechnik
http://www.sammlungen.hu-berlin.de
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Re: Upgrade 6.06 LTS --> 8.04 LTS

2007-10-18 Thread Alexandro Silva
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Michael,

I believe that better form is a new installation, is very dangerous to
do this type of procedure in a production environment.

Regards,

- --
Alexandro "Penguim" Silva
http://penguim.wordpress.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SIP Number: 1-747-179-9349
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Re: Upgrade 6.06 LTS --> 8.04 LTS

2007-10-18 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Thursday 18 October 2007 13:23, Michael Hipp wrote:
> My understanding is that the next version of Ubuntu (8.04?) will be an
> LTS release.
>
> What will be the upgrade procedure/policy from the current LTS release?
>
> - Can I upgrade in one step from 6.06 -> 8.04?
>
> - Or will I have to do 6.06 -> 7.04 -> 7.10 -> 8.04?
>
> Hopefully the former.
>
> (I'm only speaking of server releases, not desktop.)

The plan is 6.06 -> 8.04.  I recently did a 6.06 -> 7.10 upgrade as an 
experiment and I was able to get there, but not easily.  There's a lot of 
work to be done, so personally, I'm not holding my breath.

Actually 6.06 -> 6.10 -> 8.04 would be substantially easier because then the 
sysv-init to upstart transition is done before you leap into the unknown.

Scott K

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