Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10)
On Mon, 11 May 2020, Ross Gammon wrote: I thought we had fixed that Ardour crash problem by removing the old version of calf-ladsp that was bundled with lmms? Do we still get bug reports of these crashes? That fixed the crash every time problem :) Calf plugins are built using system gui libs and as such have a shared namespace with other gui libs which sometimes confict and some times don't... when they do they create odd crashes that may not seem connected to the plugin. The devs at calf are switching the gui to their own (static build) gui (all plugins should be static built) which should fix that problem. Anyway, I can't comment if the lsp-plugins offer the same functionality/quality as the calf ones (as I have not used either of them enough). I sure hope not! Quality != Calf. The general comment by professional audio engineers is that the DSP in Calf is some of the lowest quality available. The controls do not do what they are supposed to do, The EQ causes phasing problems, the controls can not be automated because they are not dezippered. The reverb may return a signal that is +1000 dB on occasion. The only people I know who use Calf a lot, do so because they like the sound and are using that artistically. (Unfa for example) However, for straight mixdown use they are the poorest choice available. Ardour already comes with the a-series plugins that includes much of the same functionality. LSP is quite good, x42 is very good, eq10q is a good set, zam is quite good (these are the a-plugins with extras). The dragonfly reverb is very good and being actively developed with the help of clasical recording engineers (who are quite picky I might add). Every time I see someone suggesting calf plugins to a new user, I cringe. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10)
On 11/05/2020 00:23, Erich Eickmeyer wrote: > Len and I have discussed removing the Calf plugins from the default > install since lsp-plugins covers the things that Calf can do (and then > some), and Calf has a tendency to be prone to crashing when used in Ardour. I thought we had fixed that Ardour crash problem by removing the old version of calf-ladsp that was bundled with lmms? Do we still get bug reports of these crashes? Anyway, I can't comment if the lsp-plugins offer the same functionality/quality as the calf ones (as I have not used either of them enough). -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10)
Hi Eylul!
On 5/11/20 4:55 AM, eylul wrote:
>
> I would suggest adding:
>
> 1) Siril (photography) - astrophotography suite that does a series of
> tasks related to it, including dealing with astrophotography specific
> file formats, aligning and stacking of large number of images, dealing
> with dark, flat and bias frames etc. (debian package: siril)
>
> 2) Hugin (photography) - panorama maker, also useful for making HDR
> images, and aligning of some specific astrophotography and
> non-astrophotography related aligning. (debian package hugin)
>
Those two seem certainly sensible. In fact, iirc, Digikam works with Hugin.
>
> 3) Godot (game design) - Godot is an open sourced gaming engine. it
> looks like it finally is in debian repositories and we can put it in.
> :) (current package is godot3. Godot 4.0 is expected to happen
> sometime in the middle of 2020 through so worth watching)
>
At this point we'd have to decide whether or not Ubuntu Studio is also
an application development studio. Historically, this has not been the
case. To be honest, I'd rather not go down that road, because that could
easily increase the size of the ISO.
>
> 4) Natron (video) - node based compositing software. (a commercial
> example would be adobe after effects) it has an active userbase. The
> main problem is that it is not in the repos, but it is available as a
> snap (and also as a flatpak)
>
Per Natron's documentation, they require Qt 4 ("Natron is known to be
buggy when running with Qt 5"), which has been removed from the repos.
This is probably why it's only available as a snap or a flatpak. From a
packaging perspective, I'm going to have to say "no" to this one,
unfortunately. That said, it should be available from Discover out of
the box since it's a snap. Perhaps we can add the snap as a seeded snap
(yes, that's a thing), I can look into that.
>
> There is some other software I would love to see in, but they don't
> have repos/packages available so not sure it is feasible to discuss them.
>
> Could we start with the full list of software and work off of it? I
> am worried we might miss less obvious overlaps or potential missing
> items. For example we should probably look into video viewers (not
> sure we have VLC installed by default) and what music players we have.
> I believe we are not pre-installing some publishing packages like
> calibre, etc :)
>
Both VLC and Calibre are seeded.
The full software list is in the seed:
https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntustudio/tree/
Naturally, you can ignore the "STRUCTURE", "blacklist", "dvd",
"dvd-live", "ship-live", "pre-seeds", and "supported" files.
-Erich
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10)
I would suggest adding: 1) Siril (photography) - astrophotography suite that does a series of tasks related to it, including dealing with astrophotography specific file formats, aligning and stacking of large number of images, dealing with dark, flat and bias frames etc. (debian package: siril) 2) Hugin (photography) - panorama maker, also useful for making HDR images, and aligning of some specific astrophotography and non-astrophotography related aligning. (debian package hugin) 3) Godot (game design) - Godot is an open sourced gaming engine. it looks like it finally is in debian repositories and we can put it in. :) (current package is godot3. Godot 4.0 is expected to happen sometime in the middle of 2020 through so worth watching) 4) Natron (video) - node based compositing software. (a commercial example would be adobe after effects) it has an active userbase. The main problem is that it is not in the repos, but it is available as a snap (and also as a flatpak) There is some other software I would love to see in, but they don't have repos/packages available so not sure it is feasible to discuss them. Could we start with the full list of software and work off of it? I am worried we might miss less obvious overlaps or potential missing items. For example we should probably look into video viewers (not sure we have VLC installed by default) and what music players we have. I believe we are not pre-installing some publishing packages like calibre, etc :) Best Eylul On 11.05.2020 07:50, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: > I have had good luck with Kdenlive for many years on several systems > (hardware wise) and a very long-lived rolling OS install. > > On 5/10/2020 at 3:24 PM, "Erich Eickmeyer" wrote: > > Hi all, > > So, first with the news: I'm done with the move and configuration > of the > seed to KDE Plasma. If there's anything Xfce left, it's mostly > remnants > at this point. Now, on to business. > > In an effort to cut-down on application purpose duplication, we > need to > review which applicationswe include by default. > > First, I would like to start off with the video editors. Currently, we > have three applications that describe themselves as video editors: > pitivi, openshot, and kdenlive. At one point in time, these may have > served different purposes, but all three of them are video editors and > describe themselves as such. My recommendation is to drop pitivi and > openshot from the default install and use kdenlive as our video editor > for a number of reasons: 1) It's more feature-full, 2) It's KDE > software > (by carrying Plasma we carry most of its libraries including the KDE > Frameworks), and 3) as a flavor for creative *professionals* we > need to > be including the most professional software we can, and right now > Kdenlive fits that bill. If people need functionality that is in > one of > the others, it's just a download away. The other objection I have for > keeping Openshot is that it has a nag button for the "latest" version, > which takes one to an appimage download, which isn't ideal. > > You will notice I leave Blender out of that discussion because, > while it > has video editing capabilities, it is primarily a 3D modeling and > animation application, and video editing is not its default > configuration. For this reason, we should leave Blender. > > Len and I have discussed removing the Calf plugins from the default > install since lsp-plugins covers the things that Calf can do (and then > some), and Calf has a tendency to be prone to crashing when used > in Ardour. > > Gimp vs Krita: I recommend keeping both since, while both are equally > capable of each other's functions, each has a different target > audience. > Whereas Gimp targets photo manipulation, Krita targets advanced > graphical art. We could lump MyPaint in with this as well, but as > Eylul > has discussed with me, it fits a different niche altogether. > > Brasero: I don't understand why we've been carrying this since Xfburn > was also installed. Now that we no longer carry Xfce, I recommend > changing that out for K3b since, once again, KDE, and since it is a > historically more powerful tool anyhow. > > Darktable vs Rawtherapee: Both are RAW image manipulation > applications, > with Darktable closely fitting the functionality of Adobe > Lightroom. If > we had to pick just one, I'd say Darktable as it seems to be the more > professional of the two. > > Additionally, while we haven't carried Shotwell in a number of > years, I > think we could do with a photo catalog program. I think Digikam > would be > a good addition since it has all sorts of plugins to enable people to > easily catalog their photos, including features such as facial > recognition and geolocation. I know
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10)
I have had good luck with Kdenlive for many years on several systems (hardware wise) and a very long-lived rolling OS install. On 5/10/2020 at 3:24 PM, "Erich Eickmeyer" wrote:Hi all, So, first with the news: I'm done with the move and configuration of the seed to KDE Plasma. If there's anything Xfce left, it's mostly remnants at this point. Now, on to business. In an effort to cut-down on application purpose duplication, we need to review which applicationswe include by default. First, I would like to start off with the video editors. Currently, we have three applications that describe themselves as video editors: pitivi, openshot, and kdenlive. At one point in time, these may have served different purposes, but all three of them are video editors and describe themselves as such. My recommendation is to drop pitivi and openshot from the default install and use kdenlive as our video editor for a number of reasons: 1) It's more feature-full, 2) It's KDE software (by carrying Plasma we carry most of its libraries including the KDE Frameworks), and 3) as a flavor for creative *professionals* we need to be including the most professional software we can, and right now Kdenlive fits that bill. If people need functionality that is in one of the others, it's just a download away. The other objection I have for keeping Openshot is that it has a nag button for the "latest" version, which takes one to an appimage download, which isn't ideal. You will notice I leave Blender out of that discussion because, while it has video editing capabilities, it is primarily a 3D modeling and animation application, and video editing is not its default configuration. For this reason, we should leave Blender. Len and I have discussed removing the Calf plugins from the default install since lsp-plugins covers the things that Calf can do (and then some), and Calf has a tendency to be prone to crashing when used in Ardour. Gimp vs Krita: I recommend keeping both since, while both are equally capable of each other's functions, each has a different target audience. Whereas Gimp targets photo manipulation, Krita targets advanced graphical art. We could lump MyPaint in with this as well, but as Eylul has discussed with me, it fits a different niche altogether. Brasero: I don't understand why we've been carrying this since Xfburn was also installed. Now that we no longer carry Xfce, I recommend changing that out for K3b since, once again, KDE, and since it is a historically more powerful tool anyhow. Darktable vs Rawtherapee: Both are RAW image manipulation applications, with Darktable closely fitting the functionality of Adobe Lightroom. If we had to pick just one, I'd say Darktable as it seems to be the more professional of the two. Additionally, while we haven't carried Shotwell in a number of years, I think we could do with a photo catalog program. I think Digikam would be a good addition since it has all sorts of plugins to enable people to easily catalog their photos, including features such as facial recognition and geolocation. I know as a photographer that kind of thing makes my life millions of times easier. With that, here's my recommendations so far (- means drop, + means add): -pitivi -openshot -calf -brasero +k3b -rawtherapee +digikam I'd love to hear thoughts about this, or other applications worth dropping. Remember, our ISO is a whopping 3.4GB, which is a pretty hefty download for some people. Also, believe it or not, that's only an increase of 0.1 with Plasma. And remember: this is a meritocracy, meaning those with the most involvement in the project have the most sway. Those who simply follow this mailing list without being otherwise involved have very little, if any sway. This is in an effort to keep a potentially negative, yet vocal minority from ruling. Thanks, Erich Erich Eickmeyer Project Leader Ubuntu Studio ubuntustudio.org-- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
[ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10)
Hi all, So, first with the news: I'm done with the move and configuration of the seed to KDE Plasma. If there's anything Xfce left, it's mostly remnants at this point. Now, on to business. In an effort to cut-down on application purpose duplication, we need to review which applicationswe include by default. First, I would like to start off with the video editors. Currently, we have three applications that describe themselves as video editors: pitivi, openshot, and kdenlive. At one point in time, these may have served different purposes, but all three of them are video editors and describe themselves as such. My recommendation is to drop pitivi and openshot from the default install and use kdenlive as our video editor for a number of reasons: 1) It's more feature-full, 2) It's KDE software (by carrying Plasma we carry most of its libraries including the KDE Frameworks), and 3) as a flavor for creative *professionals* we need to be including the most professional software we can, and right now Kdenlive fits that bill. If people need functionality that is in one of the others, it's just a download away. The other objection I have for keeping Openshot is that it has a nag button for the "latest" version, which takes one to an appimage download, which isn't ideal. You will notice I leave Blender out of that discussion because, while it has video editing capabilities, it is primarily a 3D modeling and animation application, and video editing is not its default configuration. For this reason, we should leave Blender. Len and I have discussed removing the Calf plugins from the default install since lsp-plugins covers the things that Calf can do (and then some), and Calf has a tendency to be prone to crashing when used in Ardour. Gimp vs Krita: I recommend keeping both since, while both are equally capable of each other's functions, each has a different target audience. Whereas Gimp targets photo manipulation, Krita targets advanced graphical art. We could lump MyPaint in with this as well, but as Eylul has discussed with me, it fits a different niche altogether. Brasero: I don't understand why we've been carrying this since Xfburn was also installed. Now that we no longer carry Xfce, I recommend changing that out for K3b since, once again, KDE, and since it is a historically more powerful tool anyhow. Darktable vs Rawtherapee: Both are RAW image manipulation applications, with Darktable closely fitting the functionality of Adobe Lightroom. If we had to pick just one, I'd say Darktable as it seems to be the more professional of the two. Additionally, while we haven't carried Shotwell in a number of years, I think we could do with a photo catalog program. I think Digikam would be a good addition since it has all sorts of plugins to enable people to easily catalog their photos, including features such as facial recognition and geolocation. I know as a photographer that kind of thing makes my life millions of times easier. With that, here's my recommendations so far (- means drop, + means add): -pitivi -openshot -calf -brasero +k3b -rawtherapee +digikam I'd love to hear thoughts about this, or other applications worth dropping. Remember, our ISO is a whopping 3.4GB, which is a pretty hefty download for some people. Also, believe it or not, that's only an increase of 0.1 with Plasma. And remember: this is a meritocracy, meaning those with the most involvement in the project have the most sway. Those who simply follow this mailing list without being otherwise involved have very little, if any sway. This is in an effort to keep a potentially negative, yet vocal minority from ruling. Thanks, Erich Erich Eickmeyer Project Leader Ubuntu Studio ubuntustudio.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
