RE: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

> I think you could treat the Han digits the same way: In some of the > Chinese news corpora I work with, the ten Han digits are frequently > used Western-style, especially for years, phone numbers, and other > identifiers. > > - John D. Burger >MITRE > I don't know Chinese, but the various

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 7/28/2010 10:13 PM, Martin J. Dürst wrote: Sequences of numeric Kanji are also used in names and word-plays, and as sequences of individual small numbers. But the same applies to our digits. A very simple example is to use them as a ruler in plain text: 1 2 3

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 7/28/2010 9:33 PM, karl williamson wrote: The digits (一、 二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、〇) are used both as letters and as decimal place-value digits, and they are scattered widelythe same characters are also used as elements in a system that doesn't use place-value, but uses special characters to show

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 2010/07/29 13:33, karl williamson wrote: Asmus Freytag wrote: On 7/25/2010 6:05 PM, Martin J. Dürst wrote: Well, there actually is such a script, namely Han. The digits (一、 二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、〇) are used both as letters and as decimal place-value digits, and they are scattered widely, and o

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 2010/07/29 06:33, karl williamson wrote: Is it the case that a sequence of just these characters, without any intervening characters, and not adjacent to the special characters you mention always mean a place-value decimal number? One common counter-example would be 七五三 (Shichi-Go-San

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

Asmus Freytag wrote: On 7/25/2010 6:05 PM, Martin J. Dürst wrote: On 2010/07/26 4:37, Asmus Freytag wrote: PPS: a very hypothetical tough case would be a script where letters serve both as letters and as decimal place-value digits, and with modern living practice. Well, there actually is s

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 2010/07/28 0:36, John Dlugosz wrote: I can imagine supporting national representations for numbers for outputting reports, but I don't imagine anyone writing in a programming language would be compelled to type 四佰六十 instead of 560. Well, indeed, I hope nobody would do that. 四佰六十 would b

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

vanis...@boil.afraid.org wrote: From: Kenneth Whistler (k...@sybase.com) C. E. Whitehead said: I've not gone through many character charts though so I can't really speak as an expert as you all can; sorry I've not

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

From: Kenneth Whistler (k...@sybase.com) > C. E. Whitehead said: > > > I've not gone through many character charts though so I can't > > really speak as an expert as you all can; sorry I've not gotten > > to more;

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

C. E. Whitehead said: > I've not gone through many character charts though so I can't > really speak as an expert as you all can; sorry I've not gotten > to more; I will try to ... For people who wish to pursue this issue further, the relevant information is neatly summarized in the extracted p

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

Hi. > From: Mark Davis ☕ (m...@macchiato.com) > Date: Mon Jul 26 2010 - 14:13:22 CDT > I agree that having it stated at point of use is useful - and we do that in > other cases covered by stability clauses; but we can only state it IF we > have the corresponding stability policy. > Mark >

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

"John Dlugosz" writes I can imagine supporting national representations for numbers for outputting reports, but I don't imagine anyone writing in a >>programming language would be compelled to type 四佰六十 instead of 560. Especially since 四佰六十 is 460. Raymond Mercier

RE: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

> I'm considering extending an existing computer programming language > which currently only understands numbers composed solely by the ASCII > numbers to also understand those from other scripts. I'm not going to > do it unless it is easy within the existing implementation (not some > theoretical

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

karl williamson wrote: Asmus Freytag wrote: The situation is worse than you indicate, because the same characters are also used as elements in a system that doesn't use place-value, but uses special characters to show powers of 10. I would think I wouldn't support these numbers, since we

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

Mark Davis ☕ wrote: > the analogy to the existing such policies seems strained at best. > In practice this is what we do. I just don't think we need more rules. There are many such policies: see http://www.unicode.org/policies/stability_policy.html#Property_Value (or the more accessible htt

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

Asmus Freytag wrote: On 7/25/2010 6:05 PM, Martin J. Dürst wrote: On 2010/07/26 4:37, Asmus Freytag wrote: PPS: a very hypothetical tough case would be a script where letters serve both as letters and as decimal place-value digits, and with modern living practice. Well, there actually is s

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 7/26/2010 12:13 PM, Mark Davis ☕ wrote: I agree that having it stated at point of use is useful - and we do that in other cases covered by stability clauses; but we can only state it IF we have the corresponding stability policy. Mark, The statement in your "but" clause really isn't correct

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

I agree that having it stated at point of use is useful - and we do that in other cases covered by stability clauses; but we can only state it IF we have the corresponding stability policy. Mark *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:06, Asmus Freytag wrote: > On 7/26

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 7/26/2010 6:55 AM, John Burger wrote: Mark Davis ☕ wrote: From just a quick scan, it appears that they are currently all contiguous within their respective groups. If we were to impose a stability policy, it would be a constraint on the general_category: we would not assign general_categor

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On Jul 24, 2010, at 7:09 PM, Michael Everson wrote: > On 25 Jul 2010, at 02:02, Bill Poser wrote: > >> As I said, it isn't a huge issue, but scattering the digits makes the >> programming a bit more complex and error-prone and the programs a little >> less efficient. > > But it would still *w

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

> the analogy to the existing such policies seems strained at best. > In practice this is what we do. I just don't think we need more rules. There are many such policies: see http://www.unicode.org/policies/stability_policy.html#Property_Value (or the more accessible http://www.unicode.org/policie

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

Mark Davis ☕ wrote: From just a quick scan, it appears that they are currently all contiguous within their respective groups. If we were to impose a stability policy, it would be a constraint on the general_category: we would not assign general_category=decimal_number to any character unl

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

> From: karl williamson (pub...@khwilliamson.com) > Date: Sun Jul 25 2010 - 17:00:14 CDT > . . . >> From: cewcat...@hotmail.com >> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:24:01 -0400 >> >> >> > . . . >> > Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:43:11 -0600 >> > From: pub...@khwilliamson.com >> > > . . . >> > >>

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 7/25/2010 6:05 PM, Martin J. Dürst wrote: On 2010/07/26 4:37, Asmus Freytag wrote: PPS: a very hypothetical tough case would be a script where letters serve both as letters and as decimal place-value digits, and with modern living practice. Well, there actually is such a script, namely H

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 2010/07/26 4:37, Asmus Freytag wrote: PPS: a very hypothetical tough case would be a script where letters serve both as letters and as decimal place-value digits, and with modern living practice. Well, there actually is such a script, namely Han. The digits (一、二、 三、四、五、六、七、八、九、〇) are use

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

com> From: cewcat...@hotmail.com To: pub...@khwilliamson.com; verd...@wanadoo.fr CC: kent.karlsso...@telia.com; unicode@unicode.org Subject: RE: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:24:01

RE: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

...@wanadoo.fr CC: kent.karlsso...@telia.com; unicode@unicode.org Subject: RE: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:24:01 -0400 > . . . > Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:43:11 -0600 > From: pub...@khwilliamson.com > To: verd...@wan

RE: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

e@unicode.org > Subject: Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal > > Philippe Verdy wrote: > > "Kent Karlsson" wrote: > >> Den 2010-07-25 03.09, skrev "Michael Everson" : > >>> On 25 Jul 2010, at 02:02, Bill Poser

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

The short answer to Karl's question is that there will not be an absolute guarantee. The long answer is that, partly for the reasons he's mentioned, this won't be a practical problem. A. Most of the living scripts that are in wide use have been encoded, including whatever digits are in use.

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

Philippe Verdy wrote: "Kent Karlsson" wrote: Den 2010-07-25 03.09, skrev "Michael Everson" : On 25 Jul 2010, at 02:02, Bill Poser wrote: As I said, it isn't a huge issue, but scattering the digits makes the programming a bit more complex and error-prone and the programs a little less efficien

Re: Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

"Kent Karlsson" wrote: > Den 2010-07-25 03.09, skrev "Michael Everson" : > > On 25 Jul 2010, at 02:02, Bill Poser wrote: > >> As I said, it isn't a huge issue, but scattering the digits makes the > >> programming a bit more complex and error-prone and the programs a little > >> less > >> efficien

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

Den 2010-07-25 03.09, skrev "Michael Everson" : > On 25 Jul 2010, at 02:02, Bill Poser wrote: > >> As I said, it isn't a huge issue, but scattering the digits makes the >> programming a bit more complex and error-prone and the programs a little less >> efficient. > > But it would still *work*.

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

Michael, what you are also probably not realizing is that the request is not for *all* numbers, but for decimal numbers (general_category=decimal_number) http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/list-unicodeset.jsp?a=[:general_category:decimal_number :] >From just a quick scan, it appears that they are cu

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 25 Jul 2010, at 02:02, Bill Poser wrote: > As I said, it isn't a huge issue, but scattering the digits makes the > programming a bit more complex and error-prone and the programs a little less > efficient. But it would still *work*. So my hyperbole was not outrageous. And nobody has actuall

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

> Bill, > Michael is no programmer, hence he doesn't have first hand understanding why > programmers distiguish between character set mapping (normally requiring > look-up tables) and digit conversion (normally done by offset calculations). > > That said, there are enough programmers on the committ

Fwd: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

-- Forwarded message -- From: Bill Poser Date: Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 6:02 PM Subject: Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal To: Michael Everson On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Michael Everson wrote: > On 24 Jul 2010, at 23:00, Bill Poser wr

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 25 Jul 2010, at 01:34, karl williamson wrote: > the proposal did not ask for ones at one or eights at eight. It asked for > contiguity. Why is this ad odds with common sense and practical > code-position assignment? It is unnecessary to make a rule about it. Michael Everson * http://www.e

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

Michael Everson wrote: On 24 Jul 2010, at 23:00, Bill Poser wrote: On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Michael Everson wrote: Digits can be scattered randomly about the code space and it wouldn't make any difference. Having written a library for performing conversions between Unicode strings

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 24 Jul 2010, at 23:00, Bill Poser wrote: > On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Michael Everson wrote: > >> Digits can be scattered randomly about the code space and it wouldn't make >> any difference. > > Having written a library for performing conversions between Unicode strings > and number

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 7/24/2010 3:00 PM, Bill Poser wrote: On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Michael Everson wrote: Digits can be scattered randomly about the code space and it wouldn't make any difference. Having written a library for performing conversions between Unicode strings and numbers, I disag

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Michael Everson wrote: > Digits can be scattered randomly about the code space and it wouldn't make > any difference. Having written a library for performing conversions between Unicode strings and numbers, I disagree. While it is not all that hard to deal with

Re: ? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

On 24 Jul 2010, at 20:34, karl williamson wrote: > What would the problems be of having a stability policy in regards to > assigning characters to have numeric type = decimal, something like the > following: > > "New scripts or forms (like mathematical mono space) that have decimal > numbers

? Reasonable to propose stability policy on numeric type = decimal

What would the problems be of having a stability policy in regards to assigning characters to have numeric type = decimal, something like the following: "New scripts or forms (like mathematical mono space) that have decimal numbers will be assigned so that those decimal numbers occupy at least