Re: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?

2015-04-28 Thread Ken Whistler
Taking this thread back to the original question... The Line_Break property values for halfwidth katakana (lb=AL) and regular katakana (lb=ID) have been stable since they were first defined for Unicode 3.0 -- 15 years ago. Regardless of whether lb=AL is the optimal assignment for the halfwidth

Re: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?

2015-04-28 Thread Philippe Verdy
My feeeling is that half-width kanas behave like Latin letters and do not even have to follow the ideographic composition square to line up with them (unlike standard kanas). So effectively their line breaking behavior is very different. Those half-width letters are in fact similar to linear

Re: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?

2015-04-28 Thread Philippe Verdy
Note: is it really allowed to break between a Latin letter and an half-width kana? Such sequences are frequent when there are untranslated foreign Latin (or may be Greek/Cyrillic/Hebrew/Arabic) insertions in Japanese (toponyms, trademarks, people names...), that are followed by a semantic kana

Re: [Unicode] Re: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?

2015-04-28 Thread suzuki toshiya
Dear Philippe, Philippe Verdy wrote: My feeeling is that half-width kanas behave like Latin letters and do not even have to follow the ideographic composition square to line up with them (unlike standard kanas). So effectively their line breaking behavior is very different. Excuse me, do you

Re: [Unicode] Re: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?

2015-04-28 Thread Philippe Verdy
I just gave an opinion about what I have seen. I don't know if this is correct or preferred. Half-width text is a modern invention that does not obey the traditions used in CJK composition squares (which should also be rendered vertically by default, even if today on the Internet this is not the

AW: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?

2015-04-28 Thread Dreiheller, Albrecht
No. They are still in use. One typical usage of half-width kanas is the display of short texts on small devices of embedded systems, like status messages of control units, for example a one-line display, 30 characters wide, monospace, with 8x10 pixels per character. Albrecht

Re: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?

2015-04-28 Thread Makoto Kato
Hi, Suzuki-san. Thank you for reply. At present, I have no objection to add halfwidth katakana to ideographic-class in UAX#14, but I'm unfamiliar with the (negative) impact caused by the lack of halfwidth katakana in it. Could you tell me if you know anything? Since half-width katakana

Re: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?

2015-04-28 Thread suzuki toshiya
# Sorry, I slipped to consider about the # big picture attachment. I reduced the # image size and resend to Unicode mailing # list. Kato-san, Thank you very much for prompt response. This is a sample for line break of half-width katakana. (There is good sample by web browser implementation)

Re: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?

2015-04-28 Thread Werner LEMBERG
My feeeling is that half-width kanas behave like Latin letters and do not even have to follow the ideographic composition square to line up with them (unlike standard kanas). It's exactly the half of the ideographic square. So effectively their line breaking behavior is very different.

Re: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?

2015-04-28 Thread Werner LEMBERG
However, the most important property is to be able to start a new line after (almost) any half-width kana. Bad formulation, sorry. I mean: However, the most important property is to be able to break a line after (almost) any half-width kana. Werner

Re: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?

2015-04-28 Thread Philippe Verdy
2015-04-28 10:09 GMT+02:00 Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org: Yes, for typographic purposes. But typographic issues are not covered by Unicode. AFAIK, the existence of half-width kanas in Unicode is purely for backwards and round-trip compatibility. Yes, compatibility with typographic