Sorry to be late. Just some background information.
On 2015/04/28 14:57, Makoto Kato wrote:
Although I read JIS X 4051, it doesn't define that half-width katakana
and full-width katakana are differently.
I was on the committee that updated JIS X 4015 (mostly liaison/observer
role). The
Sorry, one correction:
On 2015/08/27 16:39, Martin J. Dürst wrote:
In practice, technical restrictions in early limitations (one byte ==
one (half-width) character cell) led to a typographic distinction. The
fact that half-width Kana used less space was exploited in fixed-pitch
screen design.
On 08/20/2015 08:18 AM, Koji Ishii wrote:
Right, this should be applied to only where currently AL.
The basic idea is that, full width is a concept to use a character in an
imported manner and thus different characteristics
are applied, while half width is a concept of saving screen real
Right, this should be applied to only where currently AL.
The basic idea is that, full width is a concept to use a character in an
imported manner and thus different characteristics are applied, while
half width is a concept of saving screen real estate and/or for legacy
cultural usages so the
I don't think that is the issue. U+FF9E/F are already lb=NS, which prevents
line breaks before. The issue is instead loosening up the lb class for
the halfwidth katakana syllables (from lb=AL to lb=ID), so that they *can*
break the way the regular katakana syllables do.
--Ken
On 8/19/2015 9:21
On 05/04/2015 02:19 PM, Peter Edberg wrote:
I have been checking with various groups at Apple. The consensus here is that
we would like to see the linebreak value for
halfwidth katakana changed to ID.
Do we want all halfwidth kana changed to ID, or should there
be some exception for the
Hi all,
I'm not in sync with publishing schedule, sorry about that, but is it
possible to consider this change for Unicode 9.0 time frame?
I believe all concerns were cleared in the discussion, but if any were
left, I'd be happy to discuss further.
And I hope I'm not too late this time?
/koji
I have been checking with various groups at Apple. The consensus here is that
we would like to see the linebreak value for halfwidth katakana changed to ID.
- Peter E
On May 3, 2015, at 12:53 PM, Asmus Freytag (t) asmus-...@ix.netcom.com
wrote:
On 5/3/2015 9:47 AM, Koji Ishii wrote:
Thank you so much Ken and Asmus for the detailed guides and histories. This
helps me a lot.
In terms of time frame, I don't insist on specific time frame, Unicode 9 is
fine if that works well for all.
I'm not sure how much history and postmortem has to be baked into the
section of UAX#14, hope
On 5/3/2015 9:47 AM, Koji Ishii wrote:
Thank you so much Ken and Asmus for the detailed guides and histories.
This helps me a lot.
In terms of time frame, I don't insist on specific time frame, Unicode
9 is fine if that works well for all.
I'm not sure how much history and postmortem has to
Dear Ken,
Ken Whistler wrote:
The other thing that I think would need to happen here is that any proposal
should also provide suggested wording for UAX #14 which would explain
why halfwidth katakana specifically need to break with the general
principles
that were used 15 years ago to assign
On 5/1/2015 7:17 AM, Ken Whistler wrote:
Koji,
Personally, I don't have a horse in this race, because I am not
responsible for
any linebreaking implementation -- so a change for halfwidth katakana
wouldn't
matter one way or the other to me.
Secondly, there is no formal stability guarantee
Suzuki-san,
On 5/1/2015 8:25 AM, suzuki toshiya wrote:
Excuse me, there is any discussion record how UAX#14 class for
halfwidth-katakana in 15 years ago? If there is such, I want to
see a sample text (of halfwidth-katakana) and expected layout
result for it.
The *founding* document for the
Thank you, Ken, for your dedicated archeological efforts.
I would like to emphasize that, at the time, UAX#14 reflected observed
behavior, in particular (but not exclusively) for MS products some of
which (at the time) used an LB algorithm that effectively matched an
untailored UAX#14.
Taking this thread back to the original question...
The Line_Break property values for halfwidth katakana (lb=AL)
and regular katakana (lb=ID) have been stable since they
were first defined for Unicode 3.0 -- 15 years ago.
Regardless of whether lb=AL is the optimal assignment for
the halfwidth
My feeeling is that half-width kanas behave like Latin letters and do not
even have to follow the ideographic composition square to line up with them
(unlike standard kanas). So effectively their line breaking behavior is
very different.
Those half-width letters are in fact similar to linear
Note: is it really allowed to break between a Latin letter and an
half-width kana? Such sequences are frequent when there are untranslated
foreign Latin (or may be Greek/Cyrillic/Hebrew/Arabic) insertions in
Japanese (toponyms, trademarks, people names...), that are followed by a
semantic kana
Dear Philippe,
Philippe Verdy wrote:
My feeeling is that half-width kanas behave like Latin letters and do not
even have to follow the ideographic composition square to line up with them
(unlike standard kanas). So effectively their line breaking behavior is
very different.
Excuse me, do you
I just gave an opinion about what I have seen. I don't know if this is
correct or preferred.
Half-width text is a modern invention that does not obey the traditions
used in CJK composition squares (which should also be rendered vertically
by default, even if today on the Internet this is not the
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
From: Unicode [mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org] Im Auftrag von Werner LEMBERG
Sent: Dienstag, 28. April 2015 10:09
To: verd...@wanadoo.fr
Cc: m_k...@ga2.so-net.ne.jp; unicode@unicode.org
Subject: Re: Why doesn't Ideographic (ID) in UAX#14 have half-width katakana?
(...)
AFAIK
Hi, Suzuki-san. Thank you for reply.
At present, I have no objection to add halfwidth katakana
to ideographic-class in UAX#14, but I'm unfamiliar with the
(negative) impact caused by the lack of halfwidth katakana
in it. Could you tell me if you know anything?
Since half-width katakana
# Sorry, I slipped to consider about the
# big picture attachment. I reduced the
# image size and resend to Unicode mailing
# list.
Kato-san,
Thank you very much for prompt response.
This is a sample for line break of half-width katakana. (There is
good sample by web browser implementation)
My feeeling is that half-width kanas behave like Latin letters and
do not even have to follow the ideographic composition square to
line up with them (unlike standard kanas).
It's exactly the half of the ideographic square.
So effectively their line breaking behavior is very different.
However, the most important property is to be able to start a new
line after (almost) any half-width kana.
Bad formulation, sorry. I mean:
However, the most important property is to be able to break a line
after (almost) any half-width kana.
Werner
2015-04-28 10:09 GMT+02:00 Werner LEMBERG w...@gnu.org:
Yes, for typographic purposes. But typographic issues are not covered
by Unicode. AFAIK, the existence of half-width kanas in Unicode is
purely for backwards and round-trip compatibility.
Yes, compatibility with typographic
Kato-san,
At present, I have no objection to add halfwidth katakana
to ideographic-class in UAX#14, but I'm unfamiliar with the
(negative) impact caused by the lack of halfwidth katakana
in it. Could you tell me if you know anything?
I guess, the inclusion or exclusion in other classes, like,
Hi.
http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr14/proposed.html#ID defines Ideographic
(ID). Although full-width katakana is included in ID, half-width
katakana (U+FF66 and U+FF71-U+FF9D) isn't. Why?
Also, Conditional Japanese Starter (CJ,
http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr14/proposed.html#CJ) considers
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