On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 4:02 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com
wrote:
Script length may have something to do with the editor delays. It takes
more time to process text in v7.
I'm currently converting a stack where no scripts are longer than a few
hundred lines (most are under 500)
On 6/3/2015 7:53 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 4:02 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com
wrote:
Script length may have something to do with the editor delays. It takes
more time to process text in v7.
I'm currently converting a stack where no scripts are longer than a
On 2 Jun 2015, at 09:23, Peter TB Brett peter.br...@livecode.com wrote:
At the moment, I expect that we will probably be recommending using Atom for
editing LCB source code.
I am not familiar with using Atom but I presume it will mean:
1. Code in Atom
2. Transfer to LC
3. Test in LC
4.
On 2015-06-02 11:25, Terence Heaford wrote:
On 2 Jun 2015, at 09:23, Peter TB Brett peter.br...@livecode.com
wrote:
At the moment, I expect that we will probably be recommending using
Atom for editing LCB source code.
I am not familiar with using Atom but I presume it will mean:
1. Code in
On 2015-06-01 19:17, Terence Heaford wrote:
On 1 Jun 2015, at 14:16, Peter TB Brett peter.br...@livecode.com
wrote:
Unless some major showstopper problems are encountered, there will be
commercial builds of the next release of LiveCode 8. That'll be in
the next couple of weeks.
Will
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On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 4:02 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com
wrote:
Script length may have something to do with the editor delays. It takes
more time to process text in v7.
I'm currently converting a stack where no scripts are longer than a few
hundred lines (most are under 500)
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On 2015-06-01 13:54, Dave Kilroy wrote:
Thanks for the confirmation Peter
To get through the iOS App Store I need a commercial version of
LiveCode, so
can you give us a rough date of when a commercial version of v8 will be
released? I'm not after a definite date but something I can use to
On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Dave Kilroy d...@applicationinsight.com
wrote:
I say 'in general' because v7 seems to be more fragile than earlier
versions
because sometimes when I hit an error in my code the IDE becomes sluggish
afterwards
becomes sluggish
Mine *starts* with a 2s or
From: t.heaf...@icloud.com
Subject: Re: How do you handle the poor performance of LC 7?
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 18:17:46 +0100
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
On 1 Jun 2015, at 14:16, Peter TB Brett peter.br...@livecode.com wrote:
Unless some major showstopper problems
John Dixon wrote:
On 1 Jun 2015, at 14:16, Peter TB Brett wrote:
Unless some major showstopper problems are encountered, there will
be commercial builds of the next release of LiveCode 8. That'll
be in the next couple of weeks.
Will this be after the bugs in LC 7 have been sorted ?
On 1 Jun 2015, at 14:16, Peter TB Brett peter.br...@livecode.com wrote:
Unless some major showstopper problems are encountered, there will be
commercial builds of the next release of LiveCode 8. That'll be in the next
couple of weeks.
Will there be a built-in LCB editor or will it rely
and stupidity is; genius has its limits. -
Albert Einstein
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On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Mark Talluto use...@canelasoftware.com
wrote:
Tom, have you tried Navigator by Geoff Canyon? I have it open every day,
all the time. No issues.
It is a very solid replacement for the project browser. It is all text.
Small footprint on screen too. Fast!
For
-handle-the-poor-performance-of-LC-7-tp4692676p4692819.html
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On 6/1/2015 4:38 PM, Dave Kilroy wrote:
I have no idea why some people seem to get on ok with v7 and others don't -
and hope RunRev manage to figure out what is going on...
Script length may have something to do with the editor delays. It takes
more time to process text in v7.
I'm currently
is
labeled a release candidate.
Thanks,
Tom Bodine
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Thanks for submitting that report, Tom. I just added some notes there
that may be helpful.
Do you recall if these crashes occur more frequently if the Project
Browser is open?
I ask because one of the differences between that IDE component and
others is that it's not merely much newer, but
Wilöhelm, as a fellow benchmarking fan I always look forward to your
ongoing graphics manipulation metrics with enthusiasm. Your tests are
well detailed, and you keep enviably complete notes on them.
I have a couple small thoughts on the tests themselves, and one about
the bigger picture of
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Tom Bodine wrote:
I virtually always have the project browser open!
Try running with it off for a while, perhaps using the App Browser instead.
I know that's asking a lot, 'cause the Project Browser is pretty handy.
But it'll certainly narrow things down if your crashes go away with it
not
On May 31, 2015, at 2:33 PM, tbodine bod...@bodinetraininggames.com wrote:
I have turn off all 3rd-party plug-in tools in case those are a factor and
will see if there are any improvements.
Tom, have you tried Navigator by Geoff Canyon? I have it open every day, all
the time. No issues.
It
improvements.
Thanks,
Tom
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@tBodine
If it were me, I'd also try to evaluate time as a factor. Does the crash
chance increase based on how long lc or the system itself has been
running? Is there a chance that there is an external drive involved in the
problem, like a usb drive that spins down into power save mode (or
the
machine.
Thanks for the insights.
Tom
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Tom Bodine wrote:
I am trying to move entirely to V7 engine, but as Brahmanathaswami
notes, 7.0.5 is makes it very hard with frequent and unpredictable
hard crashes. (I'm on Win 7. Yes, crash report filed, but not for
every crash because at this rate that would become about half my
work
The somewhat sluggish behavior of all LC versions 7.x is apparent
without testing a single script over several versions. Just use the LC
IDE and copy and paste any object and you see how reluctantly the IDE
performs these basic steps. In my case this is on a Windows machine with
Windows 7 and
On 31/05/15 00:05, Mark Wieder wrote:
On 05/30/2015 12:40 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
along the way or are new converts to LiceCode. And add to those
Oops. Obviously I meant LiveCode.
Presumably LiceCode is the version full of bugs!
Richmond.
___
Peter W A Wood wrote:
On 31 May 2015, at 07:07, Richard Gaskin wrote:
If there are bugs that have been submitted but not acted on and
are holding up work without a workaround, let's identify those
and get them resolved.
...
I reported a bug - http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15173
Alex Tweedly wrote:
I too have used only v7 for everything I've done recently for myself (no
released products - just stuff I do for myself and friends/family). I've
been still using v6 when I don't control it all myself.
I'm happy to say I've had no crashes, no serious IDE problems and few
Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Mai 2015 15:51
An: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Betreff: Re: AW: How do you handle the poor performance of LC 7?
Hey Tiemo,
what does the xSortListe function do? What is rather funny that my real life
problem childs are also revolving around a live search feature. It might
On 05/30/2015 09:58 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
Hi Malte, you and Richard are on the right trace - and I was blind :)
Nonetheless, if there's a significant performance hit in *the same code*
running on different LC versions, then it's something to worry about.
--
Mark Wieder
Mark Wieder wrote:
The problem is that pretty good isn't good enough for LiveCode
positioning itself in the marketplace, and that bodes ill for all
of us who hope for its continued existence. We old-timers are more
willing to accept some of the flaws, the degradations in performance,
the
On 05/30/2015 12:40 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
along the way or are new converts to LiceCode. And add to those
Oops. Obviously I meant LiveCode.
--
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ahsoftw...@gmail.com
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On 05/30/2015 08:07 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
In short, the developers were completely insulated from any
understanding of the average user experience. It simply wasn't possible
for them to know how slow their code had become in the eyes of their
market.
I had a similar experience doing QA
Hi All,
Everyone won't ever always be happy, but when do the rest of us turn
those frowns upside down? In what month or year?
Tell us about the timing of the arrival of the light at the end of the
tunnel.
What is your guess as to WHEN? Wondering.
Of course, this asks for total speculation. Of
Mark Wieder wrote:
Nonetheless, if there's a significant performance hit in *the same
code* running on different LC versions, then it's something to worry
about.
If we were in a more optimistic mood, we could say:
LiveCode 7 is very good at exposing suboptimal algorithms.
;)
Of course it
On 05/30/2015 10:54 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
If we were in a more optimistic mood, we could say:
LiveCode 7 is very good at exposing suboptimal algorithms.
Yep. And for dp or rc builds I think that's a good thing.
But not for 'stable' releases.
That most stuff works without any
On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 8:07 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com
wrote:
It turned out that the acquiring company is very generous with their
developers, outfitting them with the very latest and fastest Macs loaded
with maximum RAM and the fastest HDDs on the market.
I hit the
On 2015-05-30 19:33, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
I made some more performance benchmarks with my real life data
I deactivated my special sort xSortListe handler and replaced it just
by:
1. sort lines of tListe numeric
2. sort lines of tListe international
(though it is not a solution for my
And then there is the rest of us... how many I don't know.
I'm not Programmer per se... I did some PHP, kinda grok JS... and
they make me very edgy if I start thinking about useing them to getting
work done. ...
Mostly I just need to get stuff done today!
I can hack up a stack for
On 05/29/2015 09:27 PM, Andrew Kluthe wrote:
Most of our c# stuff is still .Net ;)
Yeah, C# isn't really as bad as it might be. The language itself is
reasonable, if only it could be separated from the .NET stuff.
nodejs debugging suite, built in git client, great js intellisense while
On 05/30/2015 11:19 AM, Brahmanathaswami wrote:
But... I'm not a programmer...
I''ve seen some of the code you've thrown together, and I beg to differ.
So I get it that there may be a lot of weeping and wailing if you are
doing industrial systems. In that world perhaps the time has passed
unacceptable
Tiemo
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von
Tiemo Hollmann TB
Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Mai 2015 18:59
An: 'How to use LiveCode'
Betreff: AW: AW: How do you handle the poor performance of LC 7?
Hi Malte, you
On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB toolb...@kestner.de
wrote:
I made some more performance benchmarks with my real life data
I deactivated my special sort xSortListe handler and replaced it just by:
1. sort lines of tListe numeric
2. sort lines of tListe international
Mark Rauterkus wrote:
So, one possible answer as to how to handle the poor performance of LC 7 is
to wait. But how long is that waiting?
Depends on the specifics of this issue. What performance issues are
affecting your apps?
--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems
Software Design and
Malte Brill wrote:
And thankfully, warts and all, none of the issues with LiveCode are
preventing Trevor, myself, and many others from shipping products
made with it.
Out of interest, how many of those have you moved to use the 7 engine?
Currently everything I do in LiveCode is done in
On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net wrote:
On 05/30/2015 12:40 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
along the way or are new converts to LiceCode. And add to those
Oops. Obviously I meant LiveCode.
LiceCode: the hairiest programming experience you will ever have. The
On 31/05/2015 00:07, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Currently everything I do in LiveCode is done in v7.0.5.
I too have used only v7 for everything I've done recently for myself (no
released products - just stuff I do for myself and friends/family). I've
been still using v6 when I don't control it
On 05/30/2015 04:45 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote:
LiceCode: the hairiest programming experience you will ever have. The
compiler is truly nit-picking . . .
:)
I should have known I was opening the door to lousy puns.
--
Mark Wieder
ahsoftw...@gmail.com
Mark Wieder wrote:
Yeah, but here's the difference: you're the boss, you can make the
decisions, you don't have to convince upper management about how new
development tools fit into the existing set; and you don't have to
manage a group of half a dozen engineers all trying to make changes to
And thankfully, warts and all, none of the issues with LiveCode are
preventing Trevor, myself, and many others from shipping products made
with it.
Out of interest, how many of those have you moved to use the 7 engine?
I have no interest in lamenting here. I do admire the job that has been
Richard
On 31 May 2015, at 07:07, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote:
If there are bugs that have been submitted but not acted on and are holding
up work without a workaround, let's identify those and get them resolved.
In addition to review of the current bug DB, Ben
How do I handle the poor performance of LC 7?
Make sure I deploy my standalones on computers that are over 7 years
old; then one doesn't notice the difference!
Seriously; most of my computers are a bit like me: of a certain age
and I haven't really noticed a difference.
Richmond.
Le 30 mai 2015 à 01:17, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com a écrit :
The ability to deliver a single compact binary file that contains both
objects and code contributes strongly to LiveCode's uncommon productivity,
Not only…
Nobody seems to care around about something possibly more
Hey Tiemo,
what does the xSortListe function do? What is rather funny that my real life
problem childs are also revolving around a live search feature. It might well
be that your speed issues (as mine) are related to the sorting part (if you do
a sort). My approach is a little diffrent than
. Mai 2015 20:12
An: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Betreff: Re: How do you handle the poor performance of LC 7?
Tiemo Hollmann wrote:
Testing my stacks in LC 7.0.5 , they show such a poor performance.
E.g. plain repeat loops with 20,000 records which take a fraction of a
second in LC 6, last
: How do you handle the poor performance of LC 7?
I set up a couple of benchmark stacks a while back:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=67t=22072
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=67t=22072
Bad thing was that the team wanted to see „real live scenarios“ (which most of
my benchmark
Malte, it might help if you don't sort the keys on each keystroke, instead
put the keys into a list and sort them once, then keep referring to that
same list as you do your filtering. Its faster to pop the full sorted list
into a working variable on each keystroke and filter than it is to get the
On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 7:16 AM, Mike Bonner bonnm...@gmail.com wrote:
Malte, it might help if you don't sort the keys on each keystroke, instead
put the keys into a list and sort them once, then keep referring to that
same list as you do your filtering. Its faster to pop the full sorted list
Richmond wrote:
How do I handle the poor performance of LC 7?
Make sure I deploy my standalones on computers that are over 7 years
old; then one doesn't notice the difference!
Seriously; most of my computers are a bit like me: of a certain age
and I haven't really noticed a difference.
Thanks for sending your stack to the team. Please let us know the outcome.
And thanks for posting that handler. Mike and Richard already hit on
the only two items that come to mind (sorting and filtering), but I'm
curious: How does performance look if you comment out the call to
Hello,
I am producing with LC 6.5.2 on a very fast Win 7 machine.
Testing my stacks in LC 7.0.5 , they show such a poor performance. E.g.
plain repeat loops with 20,000 records which take a fraction of a second in
LC 6, last up to 10 seconds in LC 7, which is more than unacceptable for me
/ my
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB toolb...@kestner.de
wrote:
I am producing with LC 6.5.2 on a very fast Win 7 machine.
Testing my stacks in LC 7.0.5 , they show such a poor performance. E.g.
plain repeat loops with 20,000 records which take a fraction of a second in
LC 6,
LC 6.5.2 is my daily driver on Win7. All the new versions seem sluggish.
I don't see how LC 8 can be optimized already since it is only a developer
preview, which I would never trust for production work.
~Roger
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB toolb...@kestner.de
wrote:
Bad thing was that the team wanted to see „real live scenarios“ (which
most of my benchmark stacks are, just boiled down to the core of the
problems as I found them).
Yes - 'real world scenarios' are important - posting a small piece of
code and running it 10,000 times just tells you how long
I'll throw in my two cents here confirming that I've seen a slow down
moving from 6.5.2 to 7.0.2(rc 2).
On 5/29/2015 4:22 PM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Roger Eller roger.e.el...@sealedair.com
wrote:
LC 6.5.2 is my daily driver on Win7.
I've been using 6.7.x -- do
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Andrew Kluthe and...@ctech.me wrote:
As a personal rule of thumb, I don't use anything post-6.x.x for anything
but trying out the bleeding edge features.
I have no choice; I absolutely need the adjustable scaling on the desktop.
So I deal with performance by
(once more, it took my quad core i5 ten or fifteen minutes to build a
standalone yesterday).
Do you have 'search for required inclusions' turned on?
If so - try turning it off and see if you get a performance improvement.
Not knowing the structure of the app you are trying to build I can't
I set up a couple of benchmark stacks a while back:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=67t=22072
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=67t=22072
Bad thing was that the team wanted to see „real live scenarios“ (which most of
my benchmark stacks are, just boiled down to the core of
Tiemo Hollmann TB toolbook@... writes:
How do you handle this performance issue in your projects?
What works for me is building a 64-bit 6.7x engine from source.
The only time I venture into LC7 land is to check compatibility.
Otherwise it's too unstable, slow, and buggy for me to work with.
I only made it to 6.6.5 and some of the 7.x ones before I reverted to my
most stable experience (on Windows anyway).
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Geoff Canyon gcan...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Roger Eller roger.e.el...@sealedair.com
wrote:
LC 6.5.2 is my daily
As a personal rule of thumb, I don't use anything post-6.x.x for anything
but trying out the bleeding edge features. Most of my critical stuff uses
5.5 due to previous performance concerns before they even officially rolled
out 7. It seems to be a lot better now, but I guess I've just been hanging
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Mark Waddingham m...@livecode.com wrote:
The important thing here (which reinforces me saying 'real world
scenarios' are important) is that if my goal was to optimise the engine to
make simpleArrayTest fast then I could. Indeed, it would be possible to
make it
Andrew Kluthe wrote:
I guess I've just been hanging back from upgrading the important
stuff until I stop seeing emails like these on the list.
There is some performance degradation with v7, but improved in recent
builds and often the difference may be measurable but not noticeable.
There's
Tiemo Hollmann wrote:
Testing my stacks in LC 7.0.5 , they show such a poor performance.
E.g. plain repeat loops with 20,000 records which take a fraction
of a second in LC 6, last up to 10 seconds in LC 7, which is more
than unacceptable for me / my clients on old poor machines.
Can you
Earlier today I jumped in briefly on this thread to confirm I had also
experienced slower performance and on the same hand I'd like to jump
back in now in full agreement with Trevor. Coincidentally, just
yesterday I was railing on to my wife (an excellent listener) about the
old Hypercard
Andrew Kluthe wrote:
I think the decision boiled down to just wanting more mainstream
processes for development and being able to find programmers we
didn't have to train from scratch. So the decision was made to become
a .Net shop...
Ah yes, that's a conversation I know well. Some of the
Dr. Hawkins dochawk@... writes:
Several years ago (ok, it's really decades), Byte had a standard test suite
to compare compilers.
Then they hit a compiler that recognized nothing was done with the
information, and optimized the entire suite out . . . produced something
that executed in 0 .
Most of our c# stuff is still .Net ;)
I've come to really like more staticly typed development ( one thing I love
about lcb stuff I've messed with) and now I can do all my js and node work
in the same ide. I never thought I'd say it, but visual studio and c# and
.net is growing on me.
Exactly Trevor and Richard. I agree strongly with both sentiments. There is
great promise in what's coming up but what we have now, I think, is still
in transition.
And yes, since montes effort on lcvcs and the new flat file lcb libraries,
VCS support is being addressed. I'm excited to build
On 05/29/2015 07:28 PM, Andrew Kluthe wrote:
And yes, since montes effort on lcvcs and the new flat file lcb libraries,
VCS support is being addressed. I'm excited to build something great. But
unfortunately, even after the transition and this new stuff is continuing
to wow us I don't think
I'd still like to do other work in LC (less scale, less risk) but for
things like industrial control systems, warehouse management, etc. where
there are thousands or millions of dollars on the line, I guess it isn't
that 7.0 is really that bad as much as it was the wrong tool for us at the
wrong
Boy I was your man. I know Foxpro and Livecode well. I actually expanded some
SBT modules and when I got really good, I wrote my own new ones. Too bad, Ida
come on board.
Bob S
On May 29, 2015, at 13:54 , Andrew Kluthe
and...@ctech.memailto:and...@ctech.me wrote:
I was hired to convert
Not a bad option for some, then. Unfortunately, decisions like that on the
software in question are over my head. They have decided they would rather
I just do it in something more mainstream, than spend time in that way. I
fought tooth and nail to get permission to do it in livecode. It works, it
Of note, the only things wrong with the prototypes we did were that the
reports (pulling large amounts of data from a server, processing it,
generating html reports and outputting it) were noticeably slower (not like
what is often reported on this list, but slow enough for someone to notice
its
Andrew Kluthe wrote:
I totally understand what you're talking about there, but between
a full time gig, very young children, and freelance work at night.
I just don't know where I'd find the time to be effective at giving
them the level of detail that they need.
I hear you. The only reason
On 2015-05-29 21:12, Andrew Kluthe wrote:
Thanks for the reply, Richard.
I totally understand what you're talking about there, but between a
full
time gig, very young children, and freelance work at night. I just
don't
know where I'd find the time to be effective at giving them the level
of
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Roger Eller roger.e.el...@sealedair.com
wrote:
LC 6.5.2 is my daily driver on Win7.
I've been using 6.7.x -- do you see a substantial difference between 6.5.2
and that?
gc
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Thanks for the reply, Richard.
I totally understand what you're talking about there, but between a full
time gig, very young children, and freelance work at night. I just don't
know where I'd find the time to be effective at giving them the level of
detail that they need. I can't give them the
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 3:12 PM, Andrew Kluthe and...@ctech.me wrote:
...
It's not really an excuse to sit back and wait for someone else to find out
the bugs as it is the hard reality of some people's situations.
In short, the request for us to invest this much time in helping them
figure
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