Debugging IDE infinite Loops

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

Is there a way to break out of an IDE loop or break the IDE into the debugger 
when it's slow? (LC 9.6.0 Win 10)

I keep getting hangs when exiting the IDE and also very slow app response with 
the SE open. I want to see if I can get to the bottom of it.

Thanks

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net



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Re: Has anyone created a specialised mobile keyboard?

[scott--- via use-livecode]

Hello Graham,

I agree that using a built in native keyboard is the best solution… if it does 
what you need. I have an app where the native keyboard (numeric keypad in this 
case) presented enough distractions of its own that I ended up rolling my own 
in a later version of the app. For my particular case, this appears to be good 
solution. Don’t get me wrong, native keyboard is certainly the preferred 
method, but if you really do need something non-standard, rolling your own 
might still be reasonable.
—
Scott Morrow

> On Aug 5, 2020, at 8:18 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks to all who replied: Jacque has rightly put me off trying to write a 
> true native keyboard. I can (as I said at the beginning) roll my own, but I 
> also see Richard’s point about the familiarity and sophistication of the 
> native keyboards. I think on reflection I’ll just go for the numeric one and 
> make up any deficiency of symbols either by simply telling my user to use 
> certain characters as substitutes for the real thing, or by providing extra 
> buttons for the extra symbols. I will experiment.
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 5 Aug 2020, at 01:27, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I would encourage you to consider very carefully the standard keyboard 
>> layouts provided by the OS before embarking on a custom one.
>> 
>> It's not only a lot of work to make a keyboard, but the common ones are very 
>> good, with Swype-like behavior, word prediction, and other things that can 
>> be cost-prohibitive for a solo dev to implement.
>> 
>> Users are *very* accustomed to standard input controls. Deviating from those 
>> may be useful in unusual designs, but given the high value of consistency 
>> for common tasks like text entry you'll want to weigh the pros and cons 
>> carefully before deciding your use-case is too far outside of those 
>> supported by the OS.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> 
>> 
>> Graham Samuel wrote:
>>> What I want to do is to design my own keyboard with numerals and a
>>> few additional special symbols, but I don’t know if it’s possible
>>> to do in native mode, as it were.
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 4 Aug 2020, at 14:41, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode >>> lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
 You can set which keyboard you want, like email, numeric
 
 it's in the dictionary, search on mobile keyboard
 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Integrating Desktop or mobile application with LMS using LTI 1.3

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Martin Koob wrote:

> Thanks for the responses.  I am still actively working on this.
>
> I have hired a summer intern. Molly,  to work on this.  She has been
> getting up to speed on LiveCode and LTI 1.3 and now she is turning her
> attention to working on a proof of concept stack to connect with an
> LMS system and send commands and receive responses and process them.
>
> Indeed we have found that LTI 1.3 is supported by many LMS’s to
> varying degrees and some still just support LTI 1.1 currently. (There
> is a LTI 2.0 but that is a deprecated standard.
> http://www.imsglobal.org/lti-security-announcement-and-deprecation-
> schedule)  The LMSs we have looked at also have their own APIs which
> seem to have features beyond what the LTI feature set is but still
> looking at this.

This is very exciting.  Thanks for posting this.


> I am not at the point yet where I can open source it and I am not
> really sure how to go about that. (Don’t know how I would sell it
> either but probably not much of a market for it.)

If you feel the commercial value is lower than the value of open sharing 
and collaborating on fixes and enhancements, open source can be a very 
good option.


Picking a license can be the hard part.  The mechanics of collaborating 
are more flexible.


GPL v3 is what LC's Community Edition uses, useful for open source work 
but impractical for commercial work (it requires that derivative works 
use the same license and also make source available, which is excellent 
for proliferation but a turn-off for those looking to build 
closed-source works on it).


MIT License is compatible with GPL v3, and has no restrictions that 
impair use in either GPL-governed works or proprietary closed-source 
products.



> I have my main app on GIT using Monte’s lcVCS but if I did want to go
> open source with this library I want to to do something simpler like a
> script only stack library and maybe do a Demo app based on Trevor’s
> Levure App Framework https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform
>/levure/ to make it easier to use git.   Does this sound like a good
> approach?

If a framework lets you build the demo more quickly than you could 
without it, go fo it.


But it learning the framework may slow you down, don't worry about the 
demo being in a Github-friendly format.  Folks will be grateful to use 
whatever you choose to spend your time making and sharing, even a simple 
binary stack file.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Integrating Desktop or mobile application with LMS using LTI 1.3

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Martin,
I’m very glad you are tackling this issue. It was discussed a couple of years 
ago, but nothing seemed to come of it. It’s even more relevent now with so much 
distance learning.

I’m very interested in what you come up with.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On Aug 5, 2020, at 6:16 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> Thanks for the responses.  I am still actively working on this.  
> 
> I have hired a summer intern. Molly,  to work on this.  She has been getting 
> up to speed on LiveCode and LTI 1.3 and now she is turning her attention to 
> working on a proof of concept stack to connect with an LMS system and send 
> commands and receive responses and process them.  
> 
> Indeed we have found that LTI 1.3 is supported by many LMS’s to varying 
> degrees and some still just support LTI 1.1 currently. (There is a LTI 2.0 
> but that is a deprecated standard. 
> http://www.imsglobal.org/lti-security-announcement-and-deprecation-schedule)  
> The LMSs we have looked at also have their own APIs which seem to have 
> features beyond what the LTI feature set is but still looking at this. 
> 
> I am not at the point yet where I can open source it and I am not really sure 
> how to go about that. (Don’t know how I would sell it either but probably not 
> much of a market for it.)  I have my main app on GIT using Monte’s lcVCS but 
> if I did want to go open source with this library I want to to do something 
> simpler like a script only stack library and maybe do a Demo app based on 
> Trevor’s Levure App Framework 
> https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/levure/ to make it easier to 
> use git.   Does this sound like a good approach?
> 
> We are also looking for a way to access a sandbox with one of the LMS’s to 
> test the proof of concept app against.  If anyone has info on that that would 
> be appreciated.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
>> On May 27, 2020, at 5:25 AM, Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I don't think LTI is dead at all, most mayor LMSs support LTI today in one 
>> way on another. I'm also looking into this as we are using the Canvas LMS at 
>> our university (where I have my day-work) so I'm definitely interested in 
>> some participation in a LiveCode LTI library. I've just started my work so 
>> no code yet though...
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Håkan
>>> On 27 May 2020, 01:34 +0200, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>>> , wrote:
>>> Martin and Peter:
>>> I am retired, but still creating one (big) educational application. I 
>>> thought the LMS integration idea had died a death by silence, so I am so 
>>> glad you are looking into this. I’m very interested, but have not put forth 
>>> any effort in this direction.
>>> 
>>> Please keep me informed about what you find.
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> William A. Prothero
>>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>>> 
 On May 25, 2020, at 3:28 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 Hi Martin,
 
 I’ve just begun looking into this myself, so I’m also interested in what 
 anybody knows about this.
 
 Peter Bogdanoff
 ArtsInteractive
 
 
> On May 25, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi list
> 
> I have been researching how to integrate a desktop application created 
> with LiveCode with a learning Management system (LMS) like Brightspace by 
> D2L, Moodle, Canvas etc. Last time I looked at this SCORM was the 
> standard with TinCan( aka xAPI) as a potential successor. This time 
> around I found those seem to have been superseded by LTI 1.1 going to LTI 
> 1.3.
> 
> In the documents I have found I see that one of the advantages of LTI 1.3 
> is that it can be used with desktop and mobile apps. LTI 1.1 only worked 
> with web based applications.
> 
> " Mobile Ready—The model is independent of web browsers, a better 
> solution for server-to-server, native desktop and mobile applications.”
> https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13 
> 
> 
> I am looking for examples of people doing this but have not found any 
> online.(I don’t want to spend time on idly ddl I looks like it would be 
> possible to use it in an LiveCode application. It uses oAuth 2 for 
> authentication and JSON for messages both of which are available on the 
> the latest version of LiveCode.
> 
> First I just want to confirm it has been done for a desktop application 
> in general so I know that is a viable approach for integrating an App 
> into an LMS.
> 
> Second I wonder if people have done it using LiveCode.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Koob
> 
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Re: Has anyone created a specialised mobile keyboard?

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Thanks to all who replied: Jacque has rightly put me off trying to write a true 
native keyboard. I can (as I said at the beginning) roll my own, but I also see 
Richard’s point about the familiarity and sophistication of the native 
keyboards. I think on reflection I’ll just go for the numeric one and make up 
any deficiency of symbols either by simply telling my user to use certain 
characters as substitutes for the real thing, or by providing extra buttons for 
the extra symbols. I will experiment.

Graham

> On 5 Aug 2020, at 01:27, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I would encourage you to consider very carefully the standard keyboard 
> layouts provided by the OS before embarking on a custom one.
> 
> It's not only a lot of work to make a keyboard, but the common ones are very 
> good, with Swype-like behavior, word prediction, and other things that can be 
> cost-prohibitive for a solo dev to implement.
> 
> Users are *very* accustomed to standard input controls. Deviating from those 
> may be useful in unusual designs, but given the high value of consistency for 
> common tasks like text entry you'll want to weigh the pros and cons carefully 
> before deciding your use-case is too far outside of those supported by the OS.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> 
> Graham Samuel wrote:
> > What I want to do is to design my own keyboard with numerals and a
> > few additional special symbols, but I don’t know if it’s possible
> > to do in native mode, as it were.
> >
> > Graham
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On 4 Aug 2020, at 14:41, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode  >> lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> You can set which keyboard you want, like email, numeric
> >>
> >> it's in the dictionary, search on mobile keyboard
> >>
> 
> 
> 
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> preferences:
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Re: Integrating Desktop or mobile application with LMS using LTI 1.3

[Martin Koob via use-livecode]

Hi all.

Thanks for the responses.  I am still actively working on this.  

I have hired a summer intern. Molly,  to work on this.  She has been getting up 
to speed on LiveCode and LTI 1.3 and now she is turning her attention to 
working on a proof of concept stack to connect with an LMS system and send 
commands and receive responses and process them.  

Indeed we have found that LTI 1.3 is supported by many LMS’s to varying degrees 
and some still just support LTI 1.1 currently. (There is a LTI 2.0 but that is 
a deprecated standard. 
http://www.imsglobal.org/lti-security-announcement-and-deprecation-schedule)  
The LMSs we have looked at also have their own APIs which seem to have features 
beyond what the LTI feature set is but still looking at this. 

I am not at the point yet where I can open source it and I am not really sure 
how to go about that. (Don’t know how I would sell it either but probably not 
much of a market for it.)  I have my main app on GIT using Monte’s lcVCS but if 
I did want to go open source with this library I want to to do something 
simpler like a script only stack library and maybe do a Demo app based on 
Trevor’s Levure App Framework 
https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/levure/ to make it easier to 
use git.   Does this sound like a good approach?

We are also looking for a way to access a sandbox with one of the LMS’s to test 
the proof of concept app against.  If anyone has info on that that would be 
appreciated.

Martin


> On May 27, 2020, at 5:25 AM, Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't think LTI is dead at all, most mayor LMSs support LTI today in one 
> way on another. I'm also looking into this as we are using the Canvas LMS at 
> our university (where I have my day-work) so I'm definitely interested in 
> some participation in a LiveCode LTI library. I've just started my work so no 
> code yet though...
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Håkan
> On 27 May 2020, 01:34 +0200, William Prothero via use-livecode 
> , wrote:
>> Martin and Peter:
>> I am retired, but still creating one (big) educational application. I 
>> thought the LMS integration idea had died a death by silence, so I am so 
>> glad you are looking into this. I’m very interested, but have not put forth 
>> any effort in this direction.
>> 
>> Please keep me informed about what you find.
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William A. Prothero
>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
>>> On May 25, 2020, at 3:28 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Martin,
>>> 
>>> I’ve just begun looking into this myself, so I’m also interested in what 
>>> anybody knows about this.
>>> 
>>> Peter Bogdanoff
>>> ArtsInteractive
>>> 
>>> 
 On May 25, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 Hi list
 
 I have been researching how to integrate a desktop application created 
 with LiveCode with a learning Management system (LMS) like Brightspace by 
 D2L, Moodle, Canvas etc. Last time I looked at this SCORM was the standard 
 with TinCan( aka xAPI) as a potential successor. This time around I found 
 those seem to have been superseded by LTI 1.1 going to LTI 1.3.
 
 In the documents I have found I see that one of the advantages of LTI 1.3 
 is that it can be used with desktop and mobile apps. LTI 1.1 only worked 
 with web based applications.
 
 " Mobile Ready—The model is independent of web browsers, a better solution 
 for server-to-server, native desktop and mobile applications.”
 https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13 
 
 
 I am looking for examples of people doing this but have not found any 
 online.(I don’t want to spend time on idly ddl I looks like it would be 
 possible to use it in an LiveCode application. It uses oAuth 2 for 
 authentication and JSON for messages both of which are available on the 
 the latest version of LiveCode.
 
 First I just want to confirm it has been done for a desktop application in 
 general so I know that is a viable approach for integrating an App into an 
 LMS.
 
 Second I wonder if people have done it using LiveCode.
 
 Thanks
 
 
 
 Martin Koob
 
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