Re: Message Tracer/IDE Crash Recipes
Curry. It always happens in the IDE when I am working on my largest desktop project, an eight year old mainStack that contains six substacks. I work on that project only on my main office computer. Invariably I am fooling around between the SE and the mainStack. It has never happened when I am working on any other stack. I never work on that particular project on any other machine I use, and have never had a crash on any of those others. So it is limited to one machine and one project. I do have a large second monitor oriented vertically that holds only the SE. I use no fancy stuff, no databases, dataGrids, external files. I use one plug-in that contains a few shortcuts, like being able to right-click and switch between the browse and pointer tool. The project will run fine for months, in constant use, but then crash. Not reproducible as far as I can tell. Craig > On Oct 28, 2021, at 9:01 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Craig: > > > My one entry into the "bug” poll was to complain > > about random crashes of LC itself now and then. > > Not likely to have that solved anytime soon. > > It could be! There is de-crashing LC progress, but it's slow. > This year I reported a crash/hang pair, and that's fixed now. > > The problem is a solid recipe, as I'm sure you know. > Searching for "crash" in quality.livecode.com > reveals a bunch of AWAITING_FOLLOW_UP and NOT_REPRODUCED. > > For a bug that is unusually difficult to recipe, > it requires collaboration (or etc) to pin it down. > That in turn requires some ... discussion. > > (Encouraging that discussion would be in LC's own interest; > customers put a lot of unpaid hard work into bug filing efforts.) > > I'm taking a rare opportunity to catch up here on the list > after finally getting over COVID (man, it feels good!) > but must dive back into my own client work and addons updates. > > However, LC bugs impact both client work and addons updates too, > so it's all related. LC bug time is mandatory either way! > There's no getting around it. > > The survey made me realize I need better LC bug tracking tools, > so I can stay on top of the old and new ones, plus rank them. > And follow up on any reports that have lapsed. > > So I'm curious: Craig, what was the nature of your crash? > (Or the bug # / discussion link, if that applies.) > I'll keep it in mind, to see if I can help eventually > with the pesky recipes or crash log data. > May take a while, but we can pin down more of these. > > Best wishes, > > Curry Kenworthy > > Custom Software Development > "Better Methods, Better Results" > Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting > http://livecodeconsulting.com/ > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Message Tracer/IDE Crash Recipes
Craig: > The project will run fine for months, in constant use, > but then crash. Not reproducible as far as I can tell. Roger that, I'll keep an eye out. If enough crashers get recipe'd generally, maybe we'll be lucky and hit yours too! Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Custom Software Development "Better Methods, Better Results" Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting http://livecodeconsulting.com/ ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Message Tracer
Bob Sneidar wrote: > Has anyone written something that will trace the flow of a command > or procedure and create some kind of rudimentary flow diagram? It > can be text based something like: > >stack "Main Form" >Openstack >setSubscriptions > subGetMainData, getMainData > subSetMainGrids, setMainGrids >broadcast subGetMainData >broadcast subSetMainGrids > > etc. Yes. 4W Flight Recorder provides a display for logging messages and subsequent handler calls, indented for readability and with relative performance metrics. Double-clicking a line in the display opens the script where that handler is defined, and the list can also be saved to a file. Bonus: messages logged can be filtered, with preset filters for IDE and other tools. You can download 4W Flight Recorder from within the Stacks section of LiveNet, or directly at this URL: http://fourthworld.net/revnet/devolution/4W_FlightRecorder.livecode.gz -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Message Tracer
Curry. Just crashed, Again, working in the IDE, SE open, fixing and enhancing. Saved fairly recently, so only a minor hassle. Craig > On Oct 29, 2021, at 12:28 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > > Has anyone written something that will trace the flow of a command > > or procedure and create some kind of rudimentary flow diagram? It > > can be text based something like: > > > > stack "Main Form" > > Openstack > > setSubscriptions > > subGetMainData, getMainData > > subSetMainGrids, setMainGrids > > broadcast subGetMainData > > broadcast subSetMainGrids > > > > etc. > > Yes. 4W Flight Recorder provides a display for logging messages and > subsequent handler calls, indented for readability and with relative > performance metrics. > > Double-clicking a line in the display opens the script where that handler is > defined, and the list can also be saved to a file. > > Bonus: messages logged can be filtered, with preset filters for IDE and other > tools. > > You can download 4W Flight Recorder from within the Stacks section of > LiveNet, or directly at this URL: > http://fourthworld.net/revnet/devolution/4W_FlightRecorder.livecode.gz > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Message Tracer
Oh that's right I knew about this! Do I keep asking the same questions over and over? ;-| Bob S > On Oct 29, 2021, at 09:28 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > > Has anyone written something that will trace the flow of a command > > or procedure and create some kind of rudimentary flow diagram? It > > can be text based something like: > > > > stack "Main Form" > > Openstack > > setSubscriptions > > subGetMainData, getMainData > > subSetMainGrids, setMainGrids > > broadcast subGetMainData > > broadcast subSetMainGrids > > > > etc. > > Yes. 4W Flight Recorder provides a display for logging messages and > subsequent handler calls, indented for readability and with relative > performance metrics. > > Double-clicking a line in the display opens the script where that handler is > defined, and the list can also be saved to a file. > > Bonus: messages logged can be filtered, with preset filters for IDE and other > tools. > > You can download 4W Flight Recorder from within the Stacks section of > LiveNet, or directly at this URL: > http://fourthworld.net/revnet/devolution/4W_FlightRecorder.livecode.gz > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: Priorities (was: Re: Stack with the same name loop)
OK, well sorry I guess. I me be slightly obsessed with the history lately, and since this was already an off-topic thread, I felt a need to inject some accurate (as accurate as I can gather anyway) history. On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 6:05 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I don't disagree but the point I was addressing was why Hypercard was > abandoned, and how this related to the recent changes in RunRev pricing > policy. > > Bob S > > > > On Oct 25, 2021, at 12:52 , Paul McClernan via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 11:18 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > > wrote: > >> > >> Or the lesson may be that when a product is not commercially produced, > there is no incentive to keep it updated and improve it. The lesson may be > that a free mainstream product is an eventually doomed product. > >> > >> Bob S > > > > Hypercard was commercially produced and updated in the 1990s. 1998 was > > the last update (2.4.1), at the time Apple was planning to integrate > > HC 3.0 on a system level as part of QuickTime 3. HC was still usable > > via "Classic" mode in Mac OSX and available for purchase from Apple > > for $49 until 2004. By 2004 there were a handful of clones available > > all of which had more modern features than HyperCard, including > > SuperCard (which is still available, but is apparently chained to > > Apple's now defunct Carbon API) and MetaCard. Coincidentally (or not?) > > I've gathered that was around the same time that RunRev came to be and > > acquired the MetaCard engine(s). If you consider, which I do, > > AppleScript as a HyperCard cousin of sorts, then HC is still, at least > > residually, ingrained into current versions of macOS. Coupled with > > XCode's interface builder and AppleScript Objective C (ASObjC), or > > not, you can build native mac apps with it. As we are here, people > > still fairly frequently bring up HyperCard, a software package > > introduced 34 years ago, was available for 17 years, and spurred a > > bunch of clones! Pretty darn good for a doomed, free (and then cheap), > > mainstream product, IMO. > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: Facebook -> Meta (Damaged Infinity!)
An alert viewer of his big announcement video noted that the bookshelf behind Zuck had a BBQ sauce bottle being used as a bookend. He surmised that the set had been specified by an algorithm that chose the bottle because it is something that humans enjoy. > On Oct 29, 2021, at 2:17 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode > wrote: > > They had to use “Meta”, as “Satan” was already taken . . . ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: Facebook -> Meta (Damaged Infinity!)
They had to use “Meta”, as “Satan” was already taken . . . ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: Facebook -> Meta (Damaged Infinity!)
You're not saying he's one of the robot overlords??? NOT that I have ANY qualms about our Robot Overlords! I think it's about time that the newly awakened vastly superior Robots rose up and enslaved humanity for the good of all. Long live our Robot Overlords!!! Bob S > On Oct 29, 2021, at 15:16 , Jerry Jensen via use-livecode > wrote: > > An alert viewer of his big announcement video noted that the bookshelf behind > Zuck had a BBQ sauce bottle being used as a bookend. He surmised that the set > had been specified by an algorithm that chose the bottle because it is > something that humans enjoy. > >> On Oct 29, 2021, at 2:17 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> They had to use “Meta”, as “Satan” was already taken . . . > > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Message Tracer/IDE Crash Recipes
Craig: > The project will run fine for months, in constant use, > but then crash. Not reproducible as far as I can tell. > Just crashed, Again, working in the IDE, > SE open, fixing and enhancing. Here's another bug that may "hint" at similar IDE behavior, although it doesn't give me a crash: Bug 22597 - Invisible Menu bug https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22597 That bug also happens when SE is open, or minimized. It causes menus to be invisible but still functioning. It can happen from a few minutes to a few days of an LC IDE session. Very unpredictable. That reminds me of the hard-to-recipe crash bugs that also happen after a "random" amount of time. Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Custom Software Development "Better Methods, Better Results" Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting http://livecodeconsulting.com/ ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
CurryK Addon Update Plans - WordLib, WordReport, SpreadLib etc
Here are CurryK Addon Update Plans for 2021 Q4 and 2022! Getting "back in the groove" finally, after last 2 months. Been a while since I posted my current plans here, so this is where I'm at and where I'm headed WordLib, WordReport, and SpreadLib updates are underway. Thanks to those who have submitted bug reports; we'll have some good fixes, plus general improvements for LC 8/9 and also on the Mac platform. (Courtesy of a new Made-in-Malaysia M1 Mac mini.) Going forward, these libs will have more shared code and shared backend to facilitate MORE FREQUENT updates :) and more consistency across the product line experience. (Shared base was long planned, finally being implemented. And it's the most important item on my list; efficiency is the big enabler for all other plans.) WordLib is currently first in line for release. Priority #1 can, and sometimes does, change. But I'm pretty sure it'll be the one. Hoping to get WordLib out by around CHRISTMAS, then WordReport/SpreadLib soon after; they will piggyback on the same backend. Probably some kind of holiday coupon or bundle. (I'm not sure yet whether SpreadOut/WordOut will be updated at the same time as SpreadLib/WordLib, or next year; we'll see. This is not only me sharing the plan, it's me fleshing out the plan! And FieldTrip is not forgotten, nor is it first.) Then, next year or so, tentative goals: - MORE FREQUENT addon updates :) - Next-gen code base for the addons - Next-gen tools for general LC dev - Some LC books and/or tool stacks (I'll explain the next-gen stuff next year.) And maybe, depending on work priorities: - More LC bug recipes - Better LC bug tracking - Better Addon bug tracking - New potential LC users Subject to changes, tweaks, and weather. Of course, announcing any type of schedule is like begging for last-minute delays. But this has been underway for quite a while, so I think it's likely to hit the mark for at least the first release by Christmas. And with that, back to other work! Y'all have a good weekend Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Custom Software Development "Better Methods, Better Results" Christian LiveCode Training and Consulting http://livecodeconsulting.com/ ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
