Re: Submitting to the #%^%#? App Store

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Okay. - I got it submitted :)

I had revoked an older certificate to make sure I was using the right one, but 
that certificate was still in the key chain. 

Fingers crossed they like it on the first try.

Sorry for my hidden curse word there - it was just one of those moments.

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 4, 2017, at 11:01 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I created a new profile just for this - still get the same error.
> 
> After that I tried manually codesigning, but then I got the same error again.
> 
> Any other ideas? And thanks for taking the time on this - it is much 
> appreciated.
> 
> J
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 4, 2017, at 10:35 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You choose a profile in Standalone Application Settings. There’s a danger of 
>> picking an old one. See discussions like this on how to remove out of date 
>> ones:
>> 
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/26732251/how-to-remove-provisioning-profiles-from-xcode
>> 
>> It should have a certificate associated with it, and unless you recently 
>> resubscribed it ought to work.
>> 
>>> On Jul 4, 2017, at 7:30 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Colin,
>>> 
>>> Yes and yes 
>>> 
>>> Do we need to sign the actual file after it is created? I thought that 
>>> happened when we created to executable from LC.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 4, 2017, at 10:05 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 Are you using an App Store Distribution profile? Was its certificate your 
 Distribution one?
 
 
> On Jul 4, 2017, at 7:02 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Both venting and seeking advice.
> 
> Actually submitting an app to iTunes Connect is not easy, to put it 
> mildly.
> 
> I am getting an error...
> 
> The executable 'Payload/Augmented Earth.app/Augmented Earth' must be 
> signed with the certificate that is contained in the provisioning profile.
> 
> I have no idea how it could be wrong. The distribution provisioning 
> profile seems correct to me. Is there a step I am missing? I thought I 
> was following the steps outlined on the LC site.
> 
 
 
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Re: Submitting to the #%^%#? App Store

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I created a new profile just for this - still get the same error.

After that I tried manually codesigning, but then I got the same error again.

Any other ideas? And thanks for taking the time on this - it is much 
appreciated.

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 4, 2017, at 10:35 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> You choose a profile in Standalone Application Settings. There’s a danger of 
> picking an old one. See discussions like this on how to remove out of date 
> ones:
> 
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/26732251/how-to-remove-provisioning-profiles-from-xcode
> 
> It should have a certificate associated with it, and unless you recently 
> resubscribed it ought to work.
> 
>> On Jul 4, 2017, at 7:30 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Colin,
>> 
>> Yes and yes 
>> 
>> Do we need to sign the actual file after it is created? I thought that 
>> happened when we created to executable from LC.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 4, 2017, at 10:05 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are you using an App Store Distribution profile? Was its certificate your 
>>> Distribution one?
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jul 4, 2017, at 7:02 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 Both venting and seeking advice.
 
 Actually submitting an app to iTunes Connect is not easy, to put it mildly.
 
 I am getting an error...
 
 The executable 'Payload/Augmented Earth.app/Augmented Earth' must be 
 signed with the certificate that is contained in the provisioning profile.
 
 I have no idea how it could be wrong. The distribution provisioning 
 profile seems correct to me. Is there a step I am missing? I thought I was 
 following the steps outlined on the LC site.
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
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Re: Submitting to the #%^%#? App Store

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

You choose a profile in Standalone Application Settings. There’s a danger of 
picking an old one. See discussions like this on how to remove out of date ones:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/26732251/how-to-remove-provisioning-profiles-from-xcode

It should have a certificate associated with it, and unless you recently 
resubscribed it ought to work.

> On Jul 4, 2017, at 7:30 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Colin,
> 
> Yes and yes 
> 
> Do we need to sign the actual file after it is created? I thought that 
> happened when we created to executable from LC.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 4, 2017, at 10:05 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Are you using an App Store Distribution profile? Was its certificate your 
>> Distribution one?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 4, 2017, at 7:02 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Both venting and seeking advice.
>>> 
>>> Actually submitting an app to iTunes Connect is not easy, to put it mildly.
>>> 
>>> I am getting an error...
>>> 
>>> The executable 'Payload/Augmented Earth.app/Augmented Earth' must be signed 
>>> with the certificate that is contained in the provisioning profile.
>>> 
>>> I have no idea how it could be wrong. The distribution provisioning profile 
>>> seems correct to me. Is there a step I am missing? I thought I was 
>>> following the steps outlined on the LC site.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Submitting to the #%^%#? App Store

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Colin,

Yes and yes 

Do we need to sign the actual file after it is created? I thought that happened 
when we created to executable from LC.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 4, 2017, at 10:05 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Are you using an App Store Distribution profile? Was its certificate your 
> Distribution one?
> 
> 
>> On Jul 4, 2017, at 7:02 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Both venting and seeking advice.
>> 
>> Actually submitting an app to iTunes Connect is not easy, to put it mildly.
>> 
>> I am getting an error...
>> 
>> The executable 'Payload/Augmented Earth.app/Augmented Earth' must be signed 
>> with the certificate that is contained in the provisioning profile.
>> 
>> I have no idea how it could be wrong. The distribution provisioning profile 
>> seems correct to me. Is there a step I am missing? I thought I was following 
>> the steps outlined on the LC site.
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: Submitting to the #%^%#? App Store

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

Are you using an App Store Distribution profile? Was its certificate your 
Distribution one?


> On Jul 4, 2017, at 7:02 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Both venting and seeking advice.
> 
> Actually submitting an app to iTunes Connect is not easy, to put it mildly.
> 
> I am getting an error...
> 
> The executable 'Payload/Augmented Earth.app/Augmented Earth' must be signed 
> with the certificate that is contained in the provisioning profile.
> 
> I have no idea how it could be wrong. The distribution provisioning profile 
> seems correct to me. Is there a step I am missing? I thought I was following 
> the steps outlined on the LC site.
> 


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Submitting to the #%^%#? App Store

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Both venting and seeking advice.

Actually submitting an app to iTunes Connect is not easy, to put it mildly.

I am getting an error...

The executable 'Payload/Augmented Earth.app/Augmented Earth' must be signed 
with the certificate that is contained in the provisioning profile.

I have no idea how it could be wrong. The distribution provisioning profile 
seems correct to me. Is there a step I am missing? I thought I was following 
the steps outlined on the LC site.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Pinch and Zoom in Browser Widget

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Oh… (sad face) 

it appears to be a feature of 

Safari on iOS 
Safari on desktop
Chrome on Desktop.

But I am unable to pinch zoom the same page  (yes I have a track pad on my 
Macbook pro)

a) in FireFox on Mac
b) on Android/Chrome
c) Browser widget in LC on either iOS app or Android.

ouch.. this shoots a hole in plans to use the browser widget to display complex 
SVG graphic "worlds" (maps) that users can zoom in and out on.

Hope I am missing something…

BR

On 7/3/17, 8:01 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Colin Holgate via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

It also fails in Mac desktop, so you could save some time checking into why 
that is (if you have a trackpad that is).

Where is the code for a widget stored?



>On Jul 3, 2017, at 10:48 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
 wrote:
>We can to go a web page in Safari in iOS or Chrome on Android and pinch 
and zoom in.
>The same web page, shown in the browser widget is non-responsive to pinch 
and zoom out
>Is there a solution for this?
>BR



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clipboarddata mixed up

[Matt Maier via use-livecode]

I'm not sure how to figure out the difference in what's happening here.

1) use window's clipping tool to take a screenshot and hit ctrl+c to copy
the picture to the clipboard
2) right click on a picture in chrome and select copy to copy the picture
to the clipboard

In both cases, if I open a document in open office I can past the picture

But when I try to get the picture with clipboarddata["image"] it's empty in
case (2).

Additionally,
I selected the image I pasted into the document in case (2) and hit ctrl+c
to copy it to the clipboard, then pasted it into the document a second time
to confirm it was copied. After that, clipboarddata["image"] still has the
OLD image data in it.

It's like there are two clipboards?

I tried using
put the keys of clipboarddata into tKeys
but that doesn't give me anything.
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Re: Polly's gone, or at least she's hiding in 8.1.4

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

BUG report 19998

On 7/4/17 10:48 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

There's a fairly rude phrase one could use about that sort of polygon.

But it would be a far, far better thing if that were sorted out to the 
state it was in 7.1.4.


Richmond.

On 7/4/17 9:31 pm, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote:

Yes, I see. It seems that LiveCode 8 and 9 create a polygon with Points of 
-32768,-32768. A not very interest, far off dot.


On Jul 4, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Richmond Mathewson via 
use-livecode  wrote:



On 7/4/17 8:18 pm, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote:

It is odd that the menu item is there. It fails because that kind of control 
isn’t added by dragging from the tool palette, you have to create it with many 
mouse clicks. If it did make a control, what would it look like?

If you think you’ve added polygon graphics in the past, could it be that you 
had chosen Regular Polygon Graphic?

No: because I just revisited 7.1.4 and added a (n irregular) polygon graphic:

go and try it yourself.

Richmond.


On Jul 4, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Richmond Mathewson via 
use-livecode  wrote:

Ah: this does create a graphic object which is invisible, and the only way to 
make it visible is to
set it to some other type of graphic (reactangle, regular polygon).

This won't do.

Richmond.

On 7/4/17 7:07 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

Mac OS 10.7.8

Object/New Control/Polygon Graphic produces nothing.

Not funny.

Richmond.

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Re: synonyms

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Thou hast no need at all to be pompous, just a wee bit old-fashioned.

Thou art more than welcome me to the extremely select club of language 
nutters (current membership: 1 and a few stray Mennonites)
who want to bring Thou, thee, they and thine back into mainstream 
English usages.


Membership is free, and thou art not required to wear a daft uniform, 
change thy dietary habits, take any odd vows, or

reassess thy personal hygiene regime . . .

However, if thou usest the middle-finger in any way whatsoever thou wilt 
be expelled forthwith, fifthwith and sixthwith!


None of our membership have become obsessive enough to remove their 
middle-finger, Yet!


Richmond.

On 7/4/17 10:43 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 07/04/2017 11:34 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

It was a generic 'you' and not you 'you' :)

I think part of my brain decided on 'one' there but my fingers 
objected ('when' should have been 'one').


Indeed in this instance 'one' in both places probably would have been 
better, however I always feel like that sounds slightly pompous...


LOL

Yes, "one" would maybe have been more syntactically correct but made 
you feel pompous. "You" in both places emphasizes the lexical 
ambiguity. So even though the sentence would be diagrammed the same 
way (the bytecode implementation would be identical) they feel 
completely different.


So... aren't you glad we have synonyms? 

And placing the sentence in passive voice would eliminate the above 
problems by allowing a different creative process to take place. Thus 
my argument for synonyms: not that it makes much (if any) difference 
at the engine level, but it allows for some right-brain interaction in 
what would otherwise be a completely left-brain activity.




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Re: Polly's gone, or at least she's hiding in 8.1.4

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

There's a fairly rude phrase one could use about that sort of polygon.

But it would be a far, far better thing if that were sorted out to the 
state it was in 7.1.4.


Richmond.

On 7/4/17 9:31 pm, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote:

Yes, I see. It seems that LiveCode 8 and 9 create a polygon with Points of 
-32768,-32768. A not very interest, far off dot.


On Jul 4, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
 wrote:



On 7/4/17 8:18 pm, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote:

It is odd that the menu item is there. It fails because that kind of control 
isn’t added by dragging from the tool palette, you have to create it with many 
mouse clicks. If it did make a control, what would it look like?

If you think you’ve added polygon graphics in the past, could it be that you 
had chosen Regular Polygon Graphic?

No: because I just revisited 7.1.4 and added a (n irregular) polygon graphic:

go and try it yourself.

Richmond.




On Jul 4, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Ah: this does create a graphic object which is invisible, and the only way to 
make it visible is to
set it to some other type of graphic (reactangle, regular polygon).

This won't do.

Richmond.

On 7/4/17 7:07 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

Mac OS 10.7.8

Object/New Control/Polygon Graphic produces nothing.

Not funny.

Richmond.

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Re: synonyms

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/04/2017 11:34 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

It was a generic 'you' and not you 'you' :)

I think part of my brain decided on 'one' there but my fingers objected ('when' 
should have been 'one').

Indeed in this instance 'one' in both places probably would have been better, 
however I always feel like that sounds slightly pompous...


LOL

Yes, "one" would maybe have been more syntactically correct but made you 
feel pompous. "You" in both places emphasizes the lexical ambiguity. So 
even though the sentence would be diagrammed the same way (the bytecode 
implementation would be identical) they feel completely different.


So... aren't you glad we have synonyms? 

And placing the sentence in passive voice would eliminate the above 
problems by allowing a different creative process to take place. Thus my 
argument for synonyms: not that it makes much (if any) difference at the 
engine level, but it allows for some right-brain interaction in what 
would otherwise be a completely left-brain activity.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: synonyms

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

Anniversary vote! Renew your vows!

On 04/07/2017 18:20, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 07/04/2017 08:39 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:


This is also at:
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8945


Heh. I just went to add my vote to this and found that I had already done so 
some seven years ago. 




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Re: synonyms

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

It was a generic 'you' and not you 'you' :)

I think part of my brain decided on 'one' there but my fingers objected ('when' 
should have been 'one').

Indeed in this instance 'one' in both places probably would have been better, 
however I always feel like that sounds slightly pompous...

Sent from my iPhone

> On 4 Jul 2017, at 18:49, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 07/04/2017 10:37 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> Of course, once when has figured out all the potential issues and 
>> complexities which arise from such an addition, you then actually have to 
>> implement it.
> 
> Ooo... I *do* hope that's a generic "you" and not a finger pointed my way...
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: Polly's gone, or at least she's hiding in 8.1.4

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

Yes, I see. It seems that LiveCode 8 and 9 create a polygon with Points of 
-32768,-32768. A not very interest, far off dot.

> On Jul 4, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/4/17 8:18 pm, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote:
>> It is odd that the menu item is there. It fails because that kind of control 
>> isn’t added by dragging from the tool palette, you have to create it with 
>> many mouse clicks. If it did make a control, what would it look like?
>> 
>> If you think you’ve added polygon graphics in the past, could it be that you 
>> had chosen Regular Polygon Graphic?
> No: because I just revisited 7.1.4 and added a (n irregular) polygon graphic:
> 
> go and try it yourself.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 4, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ah: this does create a graphic object which is invisible, and the only way 
>>> to make it visible is to
>>> set it to some other type of graphic (reactangle, regular polygon).
>>> 
>>> This won't do.
>>> 
>>> Richmond.
>>> 
>>> On 7/4/17 7:07 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
 Mac OS 10.7.8
 
 Object/New Control/Polygon Graphic produces nothing.
 
 Not funny.
 
 Richmond.
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>>> subscription preferences:
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Re: synonyms

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

'Twas a pity when most dialects of English gave up the "Thou, thee, thy, 
thine" set of second person pronouns.


wait 1 ticks

Richmond.

On 7/4/17 8:49 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 07/04/2017 10:37 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

Of course, once when has figured out all the potential issues and 
complexities which arise from such an addition, you then actually 
have to implement it.


Ooo... I *do* hope that's a generic "you" and not a finger pointed my 
way...




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Re: Polly's gone, or at least she's hiding in 8.1.4

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

On 7/4/17 8:18 pm, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote:

It is odd that the menu item is there. It fails because that kind of control 
isn’t added by dragging from the tool palette, you have to create it with many 
mouse clicks. If it did make a control, what would it look like?

If you think you’ve added polygon graphics in the past, could it be that you 
had chosen Regular Polygon Graphic?
No: because I just revisited 7.1.4 and added a (n irregular) polygon 
graphic:


go and try it yourself.

Richmond.





On Jul 4, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Ah: this does create a graphic object which is invisible, and the only way to 
make it visible is to
set it to some other type of graphic (reactangle, regular polygon).

This won't do.

Richmond.

On 7/4/17 7:07 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

Mac OS 10.7.8

Object/New Control/Polygon Graphic produces nothing.

Not funny.

Richmond.

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Re: Mobile Check Bandwidth Function

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

OK I'm back.. sheesh… Spectrum purchase Time Warner Cable for some Ka
bilion dollars and they run our show here now… but it took them four days to 
figure out that a splice in a wire between our main modem for the enterprise 
and the router on the street that was  probably filling up with water everytime 
it rains here (which is frequent this week.)

But it was a good time to be "up and down" on the internet as I had no choice 
but to focus on my connectivity scripts.  So this does go so far as giving us a 
bandwidth value, but I think I have a solution for the "reachability" thing..

Using LTE on my iPhone read all this business in Apple's Docs on "reachability" 
but even apple is using a ping to www.appleiphonecell.com  which returns the 
word "success". But our problem is

on pingServer
  put url https://www.himalayanacademy.com/ping.txt; into sOneLineStatus # the 
file contains one word "true"
end pingServer

Is blocking… on the desktop took sometimes 3 minutes (Yeah.. no kidding) for 
Livecode to step through that line and return "empty") 
on mobile the app will just hang… but the I had this "ahha!" moment where I 
thought "Duh, Scott Raney solved this 20 years ago" (really been that long?)

one never knows how much one has forgotten… years ago I did preload media and I 
thought 

"Wait! What about LOAD… URL Status…. these are none blocking"

So with the connection up and down I went about cooking up what I think is a 
low-level solution. 
disclaimer: I don't know what I'm doing and there is always a better way.

This is a text only library that is put into use on start up… after start up we 
send
 off

 connectivity_PingServer  in 500 milliseconds 

after the UI is finished loading


Local sPingURL,sServerAttempts # sURLStatusLog

on connectivity_PingServer
  # may have been cached before' but connectivity died so we need to do this 
first:
# just in case….
   unload URL "https://www.himalayanacademy.com/ping.txt; 
  put 0 into sServerAttempts
   # Logging: put empty into sURLStatusLog
   put "https://www.himalayanacademy.com/ping.txt; into sPingURL
   load url sPingURL
   dispatch "connectivity_UpdateStatus" to me
end connectivity_PingServer

on connectivity_UpdateStatus
   if URLStatus(sPingURL) = "cached" then
  put "true" into sOnLinestatus
  put 0 into sServerAttempts
# that's it nothing more to do…
   else
  put URLStatus(sPingURL)  into tURLStatus
  if (sServerAttempts > 10) and URLStatus(sPingURL)<> "cached" then
 put tURLStatus into sOnLinestatus
 dialog_CustomMsg true,"Offline or Low Bandwidth", 1500  
   
   # keep checking but don't hog the CPU... 
 put 0 into sServerAttempts # start over again
 send connectivity_PingServer to me in 10  seconds
  else
 # Logging
 --   put URLStatus(sPingURL) & cr after sURLStatusLog
 --   put sURLStatusLog
 add 1 to sServerAttempts
  dialog_CustomMsg true,"Connecting", 800 
 send connectivity_UpdateStatus to me in 800 milliseconds
  end if
   end if
end connectivity_UpdateStatus

# Use this in the module so we don't ping the server constantly.

function connectivity_GetStatus
   return sOnLineStatus
end connectivity_GetStatus

This is working on desktop and mobile

Any refinements you wizards can offer will be appreciated. 

I'm off to dig up an old library that Scott Raney had that I believe monitors 
download progress. and I bet playing around with this you could get a bandwidth 
value in a very "primitive" way by just downloading a small file and measure 
the time?

BR






> On 07/03/2017 09:35 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> "reachability"?  Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?  I'd love to hear the
>> backstory on that name choice.  It has the scent of things like
>> "srcBic", adopted from the arbitrary choices of neckbeards who
>> define OS APIs.  Maybe there's an API for iOS called
>> NSReachabilityChanged.
>
> Well, you've got Apple to blame for that one.



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Re: synonyms

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/04/2017 10:37 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

Of course, once when has figured out all the potential issues and 
complexities which arise from such an addition, you then actually have 
to implement it.


Ooo... I *do* hope that's a generic "you" and not a finger pointed my way...

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: synonyms

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/04/2017 01:02 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

For a problem placed before any three coders, you will find at least 
four different solutions. Limiting the language limits the ways in 
which a problem may be thought of - that's the basis of the 
linguistic relativism, and it applies to programming languages as 
well as to natural languages.


Of course.


Although I think Mark's original statement is conflating two things - 
there is the *abstract* method of solution, and the *concrete* rendering 
of the solution.


Well, yes and no.
I'm arguing for allowing the concrete solution in support of the 
abstract solution (see below).




In most cases you might get 'four different solutions' - however it is 
more than likely that at least half of them will be the same if you 
strip away all the concrete baggage (i.e. syntax, variable names, choice 
of array of string-list etc.). Simply because abstractly there tends to 
be far fewer ways to solve any one given problem (in computing at least) 
than there is concretely, as computers think about things in a specific 
way (which often is nothing like how humans do on an average day-to-day 
basis).


Aside from the folding of several similar solutions into a single one as 
far as the computer goes (and I have no dissension there, nor any real 
need for any synonyms at that much of a context-free level), I think 
that allowing for more synonyms in the language allows at a human level 
(abstracted from the ones and zeros of the computer) for a more creative 
approach to viewing possible solutions to any given problem. So that a 
faster or more elegant or more functional or... solution may arise that 
may not have come about without the natural-language associations of the 
synonym(s). For instance, "is" may evoke associations that "=" does not, 
and vice versa. For me "<>" evokes BASIC and I tend to think more 
linearly, where "is not" has different connotations, as does "!=", even 
if they all condense to the same machine code.


For the same reason, I use "switch" constructs more than nested or 
sequential "if"s when possible, partly because they're easier for me to 
read afterwards and therefore easier to maintain, but also because they 
impact my thought processes differently, even though they become the 
same machine code as far as the silicon is concerned.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: synonyms

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-07-04 19:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 07/04/2017 01:18 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
Quite right. After I posted that bit I realized that after 'fixing'
the parser one would also need to deal with the complexities of
assigning the variables, and the issues arising from allowing 'local'
declarations when local variables may or may not already be assigned,
etc.


Not to mention the actual passing of them around (i.e. the internal 
representation, and not just the syntactic representation); how they 
interact as things pass through the message path; how they might bind 
when called from languages such as JavaScript (from the browser - e.g. 
the recently added ability to the HTML5 engine); or, indeed, from other 
languages as LiveCode evolves to interoperate more heavily; how they 
might be 'compiled' in the future to native code...


The list of considerations for addition of any general language feature 
often ends up being as long as your proverbial arm.


Of course, once when has figured out all the potential issues and 
complexities which arise from such an addition, you then actually have 
to implement it.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: synonyms

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/04/2017 08:39 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote:


This is also at:
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8945


Heh. I just went to add my vote to this and found that I had already 
done so some seven years ago. 


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com


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Re: Polly's gone, or at least she's hiding in 8.1.4

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

It is odd that the menu item is there. It fails because that kind of control 
isn’t added by dragging from the tool palette, you have to create it with many 
mouse clicks. If it did make a control, what would it look like?

If you think you’ve added polygon graphics in the past, could it be that you 
had chosen Regular Polygon Graphic?



> On Jul 4, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ah: this does create a graphic object which is invisible, and the only way to 
> make it visible is to
> set it to some other type of graphic (reactangle, regular polygon).
> 
> This won't do.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 7/4/17 7:07 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>> Mac OS 10.7.8
>> 
>> Object/New Control/Polygon Graphic produces nothing.
>> 
>> Not funny.
>> 
>> Richmond.
> 
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Re: synonyms

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/04/2017 01:18 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

Just to point this out but 'just' changing the script parser does 
absolutely nothing at all beyond meaning that a piece of text of the 
form now accepted by said modified parser does not throw a syntax error. 
Said change would actually *do* absolutely nothing.


Quite right. After I posted that bit I realized that after 'fixing' the 
parser one would also need to deal with the complexities of assigning 
the variables, and the issues arising from allowing 'local' declarations 
when local variables may or may not already be assigned, etc.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com


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Re: Sharp as a pound (was Array assignment...)

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Sorry: "troy" weight is spelt "troy" (rather in the way "spelt" is spelt 
"spelt").


R.

On 7/4/17 8:01 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
Well . . . as the name "octothorpe" was coined by American telephone 
engineers as recently as 1968
that seems extremely dubious . . . and quite where either the "octo" 
(=8) or the "thorpe" (='viilage', c.f Doorp, Dorf) get

there is a really odd question.

(part of this maybe because everything has been, ultimately, invented 
in Scotland)


It certainly should NOT be called a 'pound' sign, as that is either a 
'£' (as derived from Librum) or 'lb' (as in either avoir dupois weight

or try weight.

It should ONLY be called a 'sharp' sign in the context of musical 
notation (so the programming language 'C#' . . .).


'Number sign' doesn't sit nicely either as that brings it up against '№'.

Why don't we all AGREE to call it the 'headache' sign?

a.k.a. "cross-patch"

Richmond.

On 7/4/17 7:44 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 07/04/2017 12:28 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
'Sharp' because it is used in music to denote sharpening of the base 
note (despite my musical background, I still see it as 'hash' in my 
mind when I see it though).


'#' is, was, and should be and octothorpe.





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Re: I need a "slider" in a circle

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/04/2017 07:20 AM, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode wrote:

Hello Livecode group,

I have a situation where we need a slider, not a straight line, but as a
circle. I thing Scott Rossi did a demo of this at San Diego LC conference,
but I can't find the code samples to check. I just need to restrict the
movement to a circle when the user moves their finger. Maybe there is some
kind of dial example somewhere???

All I am looking to do is move the slider in the semi-circle to move the
value forward or backwards.


Maybe start with Bernd's gauge control? It's rather nicely done.

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93=29348

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Sharp as a pound (was Array assignment...)

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Well . . . as the name "octothorpe" was coined by American telephone 
engineers as recently as 1968
that seems extremely dubious . . . and quite where either the "octo" 
(=8) or the "thorpe" (='viilage', c.f Doorp, Dorf) get

there is a really odd question.

(part of this maybe because everything has been, ultimately, invented in 
Scotland)


It certainly should NOT be called a 'pound' sign, as that is either a 
'£' (as derived from Librum) or 'lb' (as in either avoir dupois weight

or try weight.

It should ONLY be called a 'sharp' sign in the context of musical 
notation (so the programming language 'C#' . . .).


'Number sign' doesn't sit nicely either as that brings it up against '№'.

Why don't we all AGREE to call it the 'headache' sign?

a.k.a. "cross-patch"

Richmond.

On 7/4/17 7:44 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 07/04/2017 12:28 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
'Sharp' because it is used in music to denote sharpening of the base 
note (despite my musical background, I still see it as 'hash' in my 
mind when I see it though).


'#' is, was, and should be and octothorpe.



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Re: Sharp as a pound (was Array assignment...)

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 07/04/2017 12:28 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
'Sharp' because it is used in music to denote sharpening of the base 
note (despite my musical background, I still see it as 'hash' in my mind 
when I see it though).


'#' is, was, and should be and octothorpe.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: I need a "slider" in a circle

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

In the version I did you can also squash the oval in either direction, and the 
button still hugs the edge.
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Re: I need a "slider" in a circle

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

And, NO: this does NOT help at all: 
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7=27672


Richmond.

On 7/4/17 7:25 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

Hmm . . .

I've made myself a jaggy circle by setting the points of an irregular 
polygon to a

sequence generated with a merry sine/cosine function . . .

Now it's "dead easy (whatever that's supposed to mean) to animate a 
"knob" round a "dial" as in:


move grc "KNOB" to the points of grc "DIAL"

BUT what would be a lot more fun would be a "knob" that could be moved 
by the end-user with a mouse (or a finger on a tablet)
by a sort of grab command, but in such a way that its movement was 
constrained to the points of the pathway graphic.


Thoughts . . .

Richmond.

On 7/4/17 5:20 pm, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode wrote:

Hello Livecode group,

I have a situation where we need a slider, not a straight line, but as a
circle. I thing Scott Rossi did a demo of this at San Diego LC conference,
but I can't find the code samples to check. I just need to restrict the
movement to a circle when the user moves their finger. Maybe there is some
kind of dial example somewhere???

All I am looking to do is move the slider in the semi-circle to move the
value forward or backwards.

Thanks,

Todd
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Re: I need a "slider" in a circle

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

Here is a version that would work for a complete circle:

global cw,ch,cx,cy,offx,offy

on mousedown
   put the width of graphic "circle" / 2 into cw
   put the height of graphic "circle" / 2 into ch
   put the left of graphic "circle" + cw into cx
   put the top of graphic "circle" + ch into cy
   put the width of me / 2 into offx
   put the height of me / 2 into offy
   moveme
end mousedown

on moveme
   local dx,dy,ang
   put the mouseh - cx into dx
   put the mousev - cy  into dy
   put atan2(dy,dx) into ang
   set the left of me to cos(ang) * cw - offx + cx
   set the top of me to sin(ang) * ch - offy + cy
   if the mouse is down then send moveme to me in 3 ticks
end moveme


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Re: I need a "slider" in a circle

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Hmm . . .

I've made myself a jaggy circle by setting the points of an irregular 
polygon to a

sequence generated with a merry sine/cosine function . . .

Now it's "dead easy (whatever that's supposed to mean) to animate a 
"knob" round a "dial" as in:


move grc "KNOB" to the points of grc "DIAL"

BUT what would be a lot more fun would be a "knob" that could be moved 
by the end-user with a mouse (or a finger on a tablet)
by a sort of grab command, but in such a way that its movement was 
constrained to the points of the pathway graphic.


Thoughts . . .

Richmond.

On 7/4/17 5:20 pm, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode wrote:

Hello Livecode group,

I have a situation where we need a slider, not a straight line, but as a
circle. I thing Scott Rossi did a demo of this at San Diego LC conference,
but I can't find the code samples to check. I just need to restrict the
movement to a circle when the user moves their finger. Maybe there is some
kind of dial example somewhere???

All I am looking to do is move the slider in the semi-circle to move the
value forward or backwards.

Thanks,

Todd
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Re: PrintPaperRectangle

[Paul Hibbert via use-livecode]

i came to the same conclusion, thank you for reporting it.

Paul

> On Jul 4, 2017, at 9:08 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> By synchronicity, I start writing a very similar message a few days ago.
> 
> I stopped writing the email when I'd typed the words "is there another print 
> property I should be using?" and as is often the case when I draft a 
> despairing message to the use- list, this prompted me to look a bit harder 
> and find the answer.
> 
> My problem, at least, was solved by finding the printPaperSize, which 
> correctly returns (for A4 at 100%) "595,842" - a reasonable approximation for 
> A4 paper converted to inches at 72dpi.
> 
>> Can anyone shed some light on this please.
> 
> Simple answer: it's a bug. At some point the printPaperRectangle has been 
> nobbled to be exactly the same as the printRectangle. I've reported this as
> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19997
> 
> In the meantime, the printPaperSize is your friend, provided the page setup 
> is at default scale and orientation: in this case, the printPaperRectangle 
> should be the same as printPaperSize with two zeros.
> 
> However if you're not at default scale/orientation, you're a bit out of luck. 
> You can reasonably infer orientation from the printRectangle, but there's not 
> a reliable way to figure out the true scaled paper size from the combination 
> of printRectangle and printPaperSize (which is why we need 
> printPaperRectangle).
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> On 30/06/2017 19:17, Terence Heaford via use-livecode wrote:
>> LC 8.1.4, MacOS 10.12.5
>> Print Paper Rectangle returns 8,8,834,587 for A4 Landscape.
>> This does not seem to match the description in the dictionary?
>> "The printPaperRectangle property contains four comma-separated integers and 
>> is in points.
>> The default value reflects the default values of the printPaperSize and 
>> printPaperOrientation.
>> The four numbers represent the left, top, right and bottom of the rectangle 
>> being printed to.
>> The rectangle is relative to the top-left of the page, and the left and top 
>> will currently always be 0.”
>> Can anyone shed some light on this please.
>> Thanks
>> Terry
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Paul
p...@livecode.org

Mac OS Sierra 10.12.1



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Re: Polly's gone, or at least she's hiding in 8.1.4

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Ah: this does create a graphic object which is invisible, and the only 
way to make it visible is to

set it to some other type of graphic (reactangle, regular polygon).

This won't do.

Richmond.

On 7/4/17 7:07 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

Mac OS 10.7.8

Object/New Control/Polygon Graphic produces nothing.

Not funny.

Richmond.


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Re: PrintPaperRectangle

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

By synchronicity, I start writing a very similar message a few days ago.

I stopped writing the email when I'd typed the words "is there another print 
property I should be using?" and as is often the case when I draft a 
despairing message to the use- list, this prompted me to look a bit harder and 
find the answer.


My problem, at least, was solved by finding the printPaperSize, which 
correctly returns (for A4 at 100%) "595,842" - a reasonable approximation for 
A4 paper converted to inches at 72dpi.


> Can anyone shed some light on this please.

Simple answer: it's a bug. At some point the printPaperRectangle has been 
nobbled to be exactly the same as the printRectangle. I've reported this as

http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19997

In the meantime, the printPaperSize is your friend, provided the page setup is 
at default scale and orientation: in this case, the printPaperRectangle should 
be the same as printPaperSize with two zeros.


However if you're not at default scale/orientation, you're a bit out of luck. 
You can reasonably infer orientation from the printRectangle, but there's not 
a reliable way to figure out the true scaled paper size from the combination 
of printRectangle and printPaperSize (which is why we need printPaperRectangle).


Ben


On 30/06/2017 19:17, Terence Heaford via use-livecode wrote:

LC 8.1.4, MacOS 10.12.5

Print Paper Rectangle returns 8,8,834,587 for A4 Landscape.

This does not seem to match the description in the dictionary?

"The printPaperRectangle property contains four comma-separated integers and is 
in points.
The default value reflects the default values of the printPaperSize and 
printPaperOrientation.
The four numbers represent the left, top, right and bottom of the rectangle 
being printed to.
The rectangle is relative to the top-left of the page, and the left and top 
will currently always be 0.”

Can anyone shed some light on this please.

Thanks


Terry
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Polly's gone, or at least she's hiding in 8.1.4

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Mac OS 10.7.8

Object/New Control/Polygon Graphic produces nothing.

Not funny.

Richmond.
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Re: synonyms

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

On 04/07/2017 09:18, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
Syntax is just sugar - you need to implement the feature at all levels 
underneath for it to work... Like most things (unfortunately), there's usually 
a great deal of depth involved - usually directly proportional to the 
generality of the change... In this case (as it is dealing with parameter 
passing) it is quite general indeed.


May I hijack this thread to have another go at promoting my feature request 
for a bit of syntax sugar around parameters which I _think_ would not have a 
very deep implementation requirement?


My (initial) request is for "@" to be ignored - treated as "/* @ */" - at the 
start of a parameter in a command or function call.


It seems to me a significant risk of error that it's possible to invoke a 
command or function which takes a parameter by reference, without realising 
it. Certainly it's not an aid to readability that, when looking at code that 
makes such a call, there's no clue that this is what is happening.


A change that ensured "@' is effectively ignored immediately before a 
parameter, would at least give the careful coder an elegant and concise way of 
indicating in the code that this parameter is passed by reference. Of course, 
my long term plan is that in five years or so the compiler might (at least in 
explicitVars mode) actually warn you if the @ marking is inconsistent between 
caller and callee.


There is a very low risk, in my view, of breaking backwards compatibility. At 
present, if you have explicitVars set, you cannot use @ in this way - it is an 
error. If you don't have explicitVars set, then with this code

put 23 into x
mycommand @x

mycommand would currently receive "@x" as the parameter, but after my 
suggested change would receive "23". That would be bad. But what kind of 
person would do the above anyway?!?


Arguably it would be possible to process @ in this way only when explicitVars 
was set, in which case there would be no incompatibility issues at all.


This is also at:
http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8945

cheers,

Ben

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Re: I need a "slider" in a circle

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Why not use a circular widget in the form of a dial?

Richmond.

On 7/4/17 5:20 pm, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode wrote:

Hello Livecode group,

I have a situation where we need a slider, not a straight line, but as a
circle. I thing Scott Rossi did a demo of this at San Diego LC conference,
but I can't find the code samples to check. I just need to restrict the
movement to a circle when the user moves their finger. Maybe there is some
kind of dial example somewhere???

All I am looking to do is move the slider in the semi-circle to move the
value forward or backwards.

Thanks,

Todd
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Re: Recursion limit

[prothero--- via use-livecode]

Why not put this in a "repeat forever" loop and test for iStopp=0, then exit 
repeat when true?

Put 1 into iStopp
Repeat while iStopp<>0
  Intersect testing code that puts 0 into iStopp, appropriately
  If iStopp=0 then
  Exit repeat
  End if
End repeat

Of course, there is probably some reason, but this is the way I would probably 
approach this.

Best,
Bill P

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jul 4, 2017, at 12:59 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well I'm not doing infinite recursion:
> 
> MouseUp Script inside button "GO2" sending "mouseDown" to button "GO2"
> 
> onmouseUp
> 
> put0 intoSTOPP
> 
> ifintersect(img "ball1",img "stop") then
> 
> put1 intoSTOPP
> 
> endif
> 
> ifintersect(img "ball2",img "stop") then
> 
> put1 intoSTOPP
> 
> endif
> 
> ifintersect(img "ball3",img "stop") then
> 
> put1 intoSTOPP
> 
> endif
> 
> ifintersect(img "ball4",img "stop") then
> 
> put1 intoSTOPP
> 
> endif
> 
> ifSTOPP = 0 then
> 
> send"mouseDown" tobtn "GO2"
> 
> endif
> 
> endmouseUp
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7/4/17 10:50 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>>> On 2017-07-04 09:28, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:
>>> BUT . . .
>>> 
>>> How can one know how high one can set the recursionLimit before smoke, 
>>> sparks
>>> and flames are going to start leaping out of the back of the computer?
>>> 
>>> Or, less frivolously; how can one determine the upper limit on the
>>> recursionLimit before the
>>> stack "hangs" (presumably that means the thing will lock solid) ?
>> 
>> The recursionLimit is limited by the size of the C stack (in bytes). I think 
>> on Mac that is 8 Mb by default (although I think you can configure it using 
>> ulimit or some similar command-line trickery).
>> 
>> One thing to check that you aren't (by accident) doing infinite recursion. 
>> i.e. A variant of:
>> 
>>  on myFunction
>>myFunction
>>  end myFunction
>> 
>> Obviously *that* is trivially noticeable as being infinite. However, it is 
>> quite easy to write stuff like this when its buried in lots of lines of code 
>> (hence why LiveCode has a 'recursionLimit').
>> 
>> My general advice would be:
>> 
>>  1) Run your routine
>> 
>>  2) If it hits the recursionLimit double the recursionLimit property.
>> 
>>  3) Goto (1)
>> 
>> If you reach 8Mb limit then put some logging into your code to make sure it 
>> *does* actually need to recurse that deeply.
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
> 
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Re: I need a "slider" in a circle

[Renato Muzzini via use-livecode]

> Il giorno 04/lug/2017, alle ore 16:20, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> Hello Livecode group,
> 
> I have a situation where we need a slider, not a straight line, but as a
> circle. I thing Scott Rossi did a demo of this at San Diego LC conference,
> but I can't find the code samples to check. I just need to restrict the
> movement to a circle when the user moves their finger. Maybe there is some
> kind of dial example somewhere???
> 
> All I am looking to do is move the slider in the semi-circle to move the
> value forward or backwards.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Todd




using math:

constant kDelay=10 //0,1,100…
local sMove
on mouseDown
   put true into sMove
   moveMe
end mouseDown

on mouseUp
   put false into sMove
end mouseUp

on mouseRelease
   put false into sMove
end mouseRelease

on moveMe
   if not(sMove) then exit moveMe
   put (the width of grc "circle")/2 into R
   put (item 1 of the loc of grc "circle") into x0
   put (item 2 of the loc of grc "circle") into y0
   put min(MAX(the mouseH, the left of grc "circle"), the right of grc 
"circle") into x
   put min(MAX(the mouseV, item 2 of the loc of grc "circle"), the bottom of 
grc "circle") into y
   put sqrt(R^2 - (x-x0)^2)+y0 into y
   set the loc of me to x,y
   put trunc(x),trunc(y) into fld "values"
   send "moveMe" to me in kDelay millisec
end moveMe

/***
recipe:
- have an oval named "circle". and be it a circle…
- have a grc/img with the above script
- have a field named "values", just to collect the values
- adjust kDelay for your needs
- feel free to hide the oval
- do what you need with values
/


regards.
re.mu.


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Re: I need a "slider" in a circle

[Malte Pfaff-Brill via use-livecode]

Hi Todd,

I found my slides to the 2013 liveCode conference, where I did circle sliders 
using animation engine. If that is of interest, let me know.

Cheers,

Malte


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I need a "slider" in a circle

[Todd Fabacher via use-livecode]

Hello Livecode group,

I have a situation where we need a slider, not a straight line, but as a
circle. I thing Scott Rossi did a demo of this at San Diego LC conference,
but I can't find the code samples to check. I just need to restrict the
movement to a circle when the user moves their finger. Maybe there is some
kind of dial example somewhere???

All I am looking to do is move the slider in the semi-circle to move the
value forward or backwards.

Thanks,

Todd
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How to avoid window flickering with changing focus?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Hello,

I have a LC 8.1.4 program on Windows. My program has a kind of a quiz and I
am using a modal window to prompt for answers. The quiz runs in a loop until
the user exits the quiz. When the user clicks a button of the modal window
to give an answer and close the modal window. Some handlers are processing
the answer, playing a video, updating some informations on the screen and at
the end call again the modal window for the next question. So there is a
frequent change of the active focus window between the main window and the
modal dialog.

I have developed the program on a fast win 10 machine. In the standard Win
10 scheme all windows now have a white title bar and almost no frame around
the windows. The look & feel of my program is pretty good / normal. Now I
tested it on a Win 8 machine, which has the standard win 8 scheme with
violet window title bar and frame around each window. And here you get eye
cancer, when using my program. After each answer of the quiz dialog, the
modal window disappears and the main violet window frame gets the focus, but
seems to lose the focus one or two times, so that there is a wild flickering
of the window frame until it regularly loses the focus when the modal dialog
window gets it again. There must be some statements (which I haven't found
yet), which play with the focus, without my knowledge.  Now I saw, that it
actually has the same behavior on my win 10 machine, but because of the
white and small frame and the fast machine I never have realized it and it
doesn't bothers.

Up to now, I couldn't  find the source where the changes of the window focus
come from and didn't find a starting point, what could cause it. Do you have
any ideas, on how to drill this down (in debug mode the "loop" behaves
different and doesn't shows the flickering) or an idea if and how I can
avoid this behavior? I tried some changes with lock/unlock screen, but up to
now without success. Because there are quite some handlers involved, it is
not just with a lock screen/unlock screen done. Or I didn't found yet the
right place to wrap the whole sequence of handler in a "lock screen" 

Ever had such an issue? Thanks for any ideas

Tiemo

 

 

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debugging a CEF browser instance

[Bernard Devlin via use-livecode]

After a very long time away from Livecode, I'm trying to get back into it.

On 8.1.4 in the Windows IDE I have a browser instance where a standalone
web page with some Javascript code is not working.  The same page works if
I load it into Chrome.

So, I thought there might be a way to display the console of the browser
instance, but I can't find a "chrome://..." command to do that. The most
information I can get back from the browser instance is this:

"C:/Program Files (x86)/RunRev/LiveCode Business 8.1.4/LiveCode Business"
--browser-subprocess-path="C:\Program Files (x86)\RunRev\LiveCode Business
8.1.4\Externals\CEF\libbrowser-cefprocess.exe" --no-sandbox --lang=en-US
--log-file="C:\Program Files (x86)\RunRev\LiveCode Business
8.1.4\debug.log" --log-severity=disable --locales-dir-path="C:\Program
Files (x86)\RunRev\LiveCode Business 8.1.4\Externals\CEF\locales"

So, I created a .cmd file where I launched the livecode .exe, passing in
different values for

--log-severity=disable

but no alternative parameters in the .cmd file appear to be taken up (i.e.
it looks like these CEF browser parameters might be hard-coded into the LC
exe).

I'm thinking there must be a way to debug CEF browser instances, but a
search through the mail list didn't turn up anything that appeared relevant.

Any suggestions?

Regards
Bernard
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Re: Recursion limit

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

If a maze has modest dimensions such as 50 x 100 squares, LiveCode 
should be able to handle a recursive solution with no issues.


If a maze has very large dimensions or irregular paths to test, I would 
play it safe by using pseudo recursion or other techniques. That way you 
"burn rubber" on the maze, but no smoke from your computer or puff of 
smoke where LiveCode was a moment ago. :)


From your code I'm not sure whether you're primarily using recursion to 
solve the maze. If not, try Jacque's tip!


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
http://curryk.com/consulting/

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Re: Recursion limit

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

If the mouseDown handler calls the mouseUp again, then it's a type of 
recursion. You can avoid that by sending the mouseDown after the mouseUp 
has ended :


if STOPP = 0 then
send "mouseDown"  to btn "GO2" in 0
end if

(I wonder why your scripts lose all the spaces when they pass through the 
list?)


How can one know how high one can set the recursionLimit before smoke, 
sparks and flames are going to start leaping out of the back of the computer?


Usually there's no fire. LC just shuts down suddenly and you lose all your 
work. After that, you set the computer on fire yourself. Ergo, the warning 
and intercept.




On July 4, 2017 3:01:37 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Well I'm not doing infinite recursion:

MouseUp Script inside button "GO2" sending "mouseDown" to button "GO2"

onmouseUp

put0 intoSTOPP

ifintersect(img "ball1",img "stop") then

put1 intoSTOPP

endif

ifintersect(img "ball2",img "stop") then

put1 intoSTOPP

endif

ifintersect(img "ball3",img "stop") then

put1 intoSTOPP

endif

ifintersect(img "ball4",img "stop") then

put1 intoSTOPP

endif

ifSTOPP = 0 then

send"mouseDown" tobtn "GO2"

endif

endmouseUp

Richmond.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



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Re: synonyms

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-06-29 21:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

Don't know about the 'less confusing' part, but otherwise ruby lets
you interleave them: if there's an associated name with a parameter
then that parameter gets assigned to that variable. Otherwise you have
to work with the parameter position, which IMO is less intuitive, more
error-prone, and harder to read and maintain. I wouldn't object to
using python's restriction, but I don't think it's necessary. Given
that parameters are comma-separated, it's a simple change to the
script parser to allow this (not that I expect this will ever happen).


Just to point this out but 'just' changing the script parser does 
absolutely nothing at all beyond meaning that a piece of text of the 
form now accepted by said modified parser does not throw a syntax error. 
Said change would actually *do* absolutely nothing.


Syntax is just sugar - you need to implement the feature at all levels 
underneath for it to work... Like most things (unfortunately), there's 
usually a great deal of depth involved - usually directly proportional 
to the generality of the change... In this case (as it is dealing with 
parameter passing) it is quite general indeed.


In regards to named parameters. Python views functions as (essentially) 
taking two abstract parameters - a sequence (the positional parameters) 
and a dictionary (the named parameters). You can see this directly when 
you look at the 'dynamic' invocation form... Which (I think) is:


  function(*listOfArgs, *dictOfArgs)

Here, this invokes 'function' with the positional args from the list 
'listOfArgs' and the dictionary of args 'dictOfArgs'. i.e. it is 
equivalent to doing:


  function(listOfArgs[1], ..., listofArgs[n], firstKey of dictOfArgs: 
dictOfArgs[firstKey], ...)


Indeed, as has already been noted Python does not allow you to mix the 
two. Although I think you could relax that just by re-ordering all named 
args to the end of the parameter list before invocation e.g.


  function 1, foo: bar, 2

Becomes

  function 1, 2, foo:bar

You might even be able to make it so that named parameters also have a 
position - however I suspect the necessary rules underlying that would 
end up being so obtuse as to make it a somewhat pointless exercise in 
semantic uniformity, and probably not worth the effort.


Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: synonyms

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-06-26 22:29, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

On 6/26/17 3:14 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:


On 6/26/17 11:07 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
Just please don't remove the ones we've got. I haven't typed out 
"background" or "card" in 30 years. My brain would short out.


I wonder if it is about time in this discussion to differentiate 
between *abbreviations* and *synonyms*?


I think from the engine's perspective they're the same.


Yes - which is part of the problem.

They are actually a 'different thing' abstractly. It is just that they 
were implemented using the same mechanism because (at first glance at 
least) that mechanism 'does the same thing' when one does not consider 
what is *actually* going on.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: synonyms

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-06-26 21:57, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:

Most of us are well aware that LiveCode is NOT Hypercard any more than
I am not a small, furry mouselike mammal that danced around
the toes of dying dinosaurs: LiveCode is descended from HyperCard, and
I may be descended from small, furry mammals.


No it is not HyperCard, but it is (pretty much) a large superset of what 
HyperCard was...


Okay so there are some implementation differences - HyperCard used a 
page-based stack format, LiveCode's is in-memory; HyperCard used decimal 
arithmetic, LiveCode uses double arithmetic, HyperCard's parser was 
completely contextual, LiveCode's is a little bit of a mix (and a fair 
few other things).



"train people implicitly" . . . hard job.


Indeed it isn't easy; and most environments don't really try and do so. 
Even LiveCode at the moment doesn't help that much.


In this case, I think 'implicit' comes from an environment which tells 
you what you are doing wrong, rather than just saying when you've got it 
right. After all, learning from mistakes is a general 'fact of life' - 
however, to learn from mistakes you have to know what they are in the 
first place.



Yes; but that presupposes LiveCode is going to be burdened with the
"it's an xTalk dialect" label forever, and whether "xTalk"
continues to make sense seeing how far the xTalk outgrowths from
HyperCard have diverged.


I don't think the 'its an xTalk dialect' is that much of a burden - at 
least not from a syntax point of view. In many ways the abstractions 
which the syntax exposes are far far more important - and those persist 
regardless of the syntax which is wrapped around them.


For a problem placed before any three coders, you will find at least 
four different solutions. Limiting the language limits the ways in 
which a problem may be thought of - that's the basis of the 
linguistic relativism, and it applies to programming languages as 
well as to natural languages.


Of course.


Although I think Mark's original statement is conflating two things - 
there is the *abstract* method of solution, and the *concrete* rendering 
of the solution.


In most cases you might get 'four different solutions' - however it is 
more than likely that at least half of them will be the same if you 
strip away all the concrete baggage (i.e. syntax, variable names, choice 
of array of string-list etc.). Simply because abstractly there tends to 
be far fewer ways to solve any one given problem (in computing at least) 
than there is concretely, as computers think about things in a specific 
way (which often is nothing like how humans do on an average day-to-day 
basis).


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Recursion limit

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Well I'm not doing infinite recursion:

MouseUp Script inside button "GO2" sending "mouseDown" to button "GO2"

onmouseUp

put0 intoSTOPP

ifintersect(img "ball1",img "stop") then

put1 intoSTOPP

endif

ifintersect(img "ball2",img "stop") then

put1 intoSTOPP

endif

ifintersect(img "ball3",img "stop") then

put1 intoSTOPP

endif

ifintersect(img "ball4",img "stop") then

put1 intoSTOPP

endif

ifSTOPP = 0 then

send"mouseDown" tobtn "GO2"

endif

endmouseUp

Richmond.



On 7/4/17 10:50 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

On 2017-07-04 09:28, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:

BUT . . .

How can one know how high one can set the recursionLimit before 
smoke, sparks

and flames are going to start leaping out of the back of the computer?

Or, less frivolously; how can one determine the upper limit on the
recursionLimit before the
stack "hangs" (presumably that means the thing will lock solid) ?


The recursionLimit is limited by the size of the C stack (in bytes). I 
think on Mac that is 8 Mb by default (although I think you can 
configure it using ulimit or some similar command-line trickery).


One thing to check that you aren't (by accident) doing infinite 
recursion. i.e. A variant of:


  on myFunction
myFunction
  end myFunction

Obviously *that* is trivially noticeable as being infinite. However, 
it is quite easy to write stuff like this when its buried in lots of 
lines of code (hence why LiveCode has a 'recursionLimit').


My general advice would be:

  1) Run your routine

  2) If it hits the recursionLimit double the recursionLimit property.

  3) Goto (1)

If you reach 8Mb limit then put some logging into your code to make 
sure it *does* actually need to recurse that deeply.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.



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Re: Recursion limit

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-07-04 09:28, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:

BUT . . .

How can one know how high one can set the recursionLimit before smoke, 
sparks

and flames are going to start leaping out of the back of the computer?

Or, less frivolously; how can one determine the upper limit on the
recursionLimit before the
stack "hangs" (presumably that means the thing will lock solid) ?


The recursionLimit is limited by the size of the C stack (in bytes). I 
think on Mac that is 8 Mb by default (although I think you can configure 
it using ulimit or some similar command-line trickery).


One thing to check that you aren't (by accident) doing infinite 
recursion. i.e. A variant of:


  on myFunction
myFunction
  end myFunction

Obviously *that* is trivially noticeable as being infinite. However, it 
is quite easy to write stuff like this when its buried in lots of lines 
of code (hence why LiveCode has a 'recursionLimit').


My general advice would be:

  1) Run your routine

  2) If it hits the recursionLimit double the recursionLimit property.

  3) Goto (1)

If you reach 8Mb limit then put some logging into your code to make sure 
it *does* actually need to recurse that deeply.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: synonyms

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-06-26 21:34, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

Heh. Autocomplete, I think, works well when you already have an idea
where you're going. I don't think it would help much with a line like

"if x "


If the autocomplete mechanism is good enough then it could it would come 
up with a list like:


  'then'
  'is '
  'contains '
  ...

Of course, there would be a big list in this case (as there are quite a 
few operators); however, other contextual information can be used to 
order it (e.g. how often had you used operators in the current script) 
and implicitly computed type information could help cut down the list to 
the things that would actually work.



My PR for 'hilite' wasn't to 'normalise' the term, but to be
consistent about its use. To this day I can't remember where
'highlight' is acceptable and where 'hilite' is proscribed, my
distaste for 'hilite' as a word notwithstanding.


Indeed - there are 'different cases' of synonyms - this would fall into 
the class of spelling variations. However, the point there was that a 
specific variation had already been chosen - 'hilite' - for better or 
for worse.



Point taken, but do you seriously believe it would be a good idea to
have different meanings for "hilite" and "highlight"? I can't imagine
that repurposing either of these for the same syntax would help in
anyone's comprehension of the language or ease in scripting. Making
the two words synonyms is the only thing that makes sense to me.


No - of course I wouldn't - but then this just goes to show that the 
'synonym' thing is a great deal deeper than it appears at first sight. 
Already in this thread the following three kinds have been noted:


  - abbreviations

  - spelling variations

  - functional synonyms

Of these, only the last can truly be called 'synonyms' - and they are 
more complex than the other two as they *should* be context dependent 
(but cannot be at the moment).


Abbreviations people probably wouldn't notice the lack of direct support 
for in the language if the tooling auto-expanded them.


In terms of spelling variations choosing *one* and sticking to it in any 
particular project is really important otherwise you can create subtle 
bugs which are virtually impossible to spot (e.g. using 'colour' as a 
key in an array in one place, but 'color' in another).


I normalized my spelling to US English when coding quite early on after 
starting at LiveCode - however, you can still see inconsistent vestiges 
lurking around in various places. Color wasn't so bad to move to as I'd 
already had that battle at the age of around 6 when playing with Amiga 
BASIC on my grandfather's computer and not being able to figure out for 
the life of me why I kept getting 'syntax error' in my code... It was 
because I was typing COLOUR and not COLOR. However, 'Behavior' took me a 
fair bit longer!



Having submitted several rejected PRs for synonyms I can vouch for the
fact that they're not that hard to add.


Just because something is 'easy' doesn't mean it is 'right'. (It is easy 
to knock down walls in a house with a big enough hammer - but you might 
not end up with a house afterwards!).


The point here is that the architecture we currently have for synonyms 
is woefully inadequate as it is global - if you apply a synonym to one 
property token then it is that way for all uses of that property, 
regardless of where they are.


For example, for one type of 'thing' the two words 'purge' and 'delete' 
might well mean the same thing... However for another type of 'thing' 
they might not.



That may be the basis of our disagreement then... I'd prefer that
everyone *not* be stamped from the same mold.


It is not about stamping everyone from the same mould - however, for 
people to work together well and efficiently you need consistent 
communication.


In the world of programming, the code is the primary means of 
communication so ensuring that is consistent amongst any one group or 
team produces big benefits.


As I already said I am against synonyms being part of the *core* 
language as they only add friction at level, and do not help (the 'core' 
of anything should be only as large as it needs to be to express 
everything built on top of it). However, I have no issue with them being 
available as tailorings - we just aren't quite at the point where this 
is usefully possible.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Sharp as a pound (was Array assignment...)

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Macintosh:

On a US keyboard the '#' sign is Shift-3 (where, on a British keyboard 
there is a pound sign).


On a British keyboard, as Mark correctly states, it is Alt/Opt-3.

On a German keyboard the '#' is Shift + Alt/Opt-3.

On a French keyboard the '#' is Shift + Alt/Opt-'  (the key that is a 
'\' on the US keyboard).


Reasonably accessible.

Richmond.


On 7/4/17 10:28 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

On 2017-06-29 18:45, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

So long as we all generally agree that "#" can be called "pound, Hash
or Sharp" (not so sure I agree with the last one btw) then we can talk
about it. So far as the computer is concerned, it's ascii(035) and
even that is a synonym for 00100010.


'Sharp' because it is used in music to denote sharpening of the base 
note (despite my musical background, I still see it as 'hash' in my 
mind when I see it though).


Just noting something Alex said about # not being directly accessible 
on Mac (it is Alt/Option - 3) - I always found this somewhat 
amusing... I often wondered if it is because in the early days Apple 
favoured Pascal as its primary implementation language beyond assembly 
- if it had been C I suspect it would have been more accessible as C 
code (particularly going back decades) uses # quite a lot...


Warmest Regards,

Mark.



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Re: Recursion limit

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

BUT . . .

How can one know how high one can set the recursionLimit before smoke, 
sparks

and flames are going to start leaping out of the back of the computer?

Or, less frivolously; how can one determine the upper limit on the 
recursionLimit before the

stack "hangs" (presumably that means the thing will lock solid) ?

Richmond.

On 7/4/17 10:20 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

On 2017-07-04 09:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:

"the handler: revIDEStackNameIsIDEStack
has reached the recursion limit of: 40.
Execution will be terminated to prevent hang"

OK, OK, hanging is a type of execution.

This is "all very charming" but I want the script to
go on "crawling up its own bottom" considerably
longer than that . . .

Does anyone know how to circumvent
this limit?


You can't circumvent but you can configure the limit - take a look at 
'the recursionLimit' property.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.



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Re: Sharp as a pound (was Array assignment...)

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-06-29 18:45, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

So long as we all generally agree that "#" can be called "pound, Hash
or Sharp" (not so sure I agree with the last one btw) then we can talk
about it. So far as the computer is concerned, it's ascii(035) and
even that is a synonym for 00100010.


'Sharp' because it is used in music to denote sharpening of the base 
note (despite my musical background, I still see it as 'hash' in my mind 
when I see it though).


Just noting something Alex said about # not being directly accessible on 
Mac (it is Alt/Option - 3) - I always found this somewhat amusing... I 
often wondered if it is because in the early days Apple favoured Pascal 
as its primary implementation language beyond assembly - if it had been 
C I suspect it would have been more accessible as C code (particularly 
going back decades) uses # quite a lot...


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Recursion limit

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Aha!

I'm listening to "the man" himself.

Thank you very much indeed.

I do hope you still find time to keep practicing the piano as a programmer
who also plays the piano does an awful lot to dispell the geek myth.

Best, Richmond.

On 7/4/17 10:20 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

On 2017-07-04 09:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:

"the handler: revIDEStackNameIsIDEStack
has reached the recursion limit of: 40.
Execution will be terminated to prevent hang"

OK, OK, hanging is a type of execution.

This is "all very charming" but I want the script to
go on "crawling up its own bottom" considerably
longer than that . . .

Does anyone know how to circumvent
this limit?


You can't circumvent but you can configure the limit - take a look at 
'the recursionLimit' property.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.



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Re: Recursion limit

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

On 7/4/17 10:11 am, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Richmond,

I'm wondering if the recursion limit is limited  within the IDE and you are
allowed to recurse to your hearts content in a standalone.


Possibly . . . I don't know how to 'recurse' but I do know how to 'curse 
to my heart's discontent'.


I am trying to code a virtual robot mouse which will find its way 
through a maze using intersect,


and will find another, non-recursive way to do things (this is not a 
problem as I was messing around with recursion

because of another problem I had with the thing) . . .

However, as this is the only time I have come up against the recursion 
limit I was wondering

whether there is a way to circumvent it, in the IDE.

Richmond.



Well that's what I would surmise from the error message - IDEstack.

I could be wrong though.

Regards Lagi

On 4 July 2017 at 08:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


"the handler: revIDEStackNameIsIDEStack
has reached the recursion limit of: 40.
Execution will be terminated to prevent hang"

OK, OK, hanging is a type of execution.

This is "all very charming" but I want the script to
go on "crawling up its own bottom" considerably
longer than that . . .

Does anyone know how to circumvent
this limit?

Richmond.
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Re: Recursion limit

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2017-07-04 09:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:

"the handler: revIDEStackNameIsIDEStack
has reached the recursion limit of: 40.
Execution will be terminated to prevent hang"

OK, OK, hanging is a type of execution.

This is "all very charming" but I want the script to
go on "crawling up its own bottom" considerably
longer than that . . .

Does anyone know how to circumvent
this limit?


You can't circumvent but you can configure the limit - take a look at 
'the recursionLimit' property.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Recursion limit

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Hi Richmond,

I'm wondering if the recursion limit is limited  within the IDE and you are
allowed to recurse to your hearts content in a standalone.

Well that's what I would surmise from the error message - IDEstack.

I could be wrong though.

Regards Lagi

On 4 July 2017 at 08:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> "the handler: revIDEStackNameIsIDEStack
> has reached the recursion limit of: 40.
> Execution will be terminated to prevent hang"
>
> OK, OK, hanging is a type of execution.
>
> This is "all very charming" but I want the script to
> go on "crawling up its own bottom" considerably
> longer than that . . .
>
> Does anyone know how to circumvent
> this limit?
>
> Richmond.
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> subscription preferences:
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Recursion limit

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

"the handler: revIDEStackNameIsIDEStack
has reached the recursion limit of: 40.
Execution will be terminated to prevent hang"

OK, OK, hanging is a type of execution.

This is "all very charming" but I want the script to
go on "crawling up its own bottom" considerably
longer than that . . .

Does anyone know how to circumvent
this limit?

Richmond.
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AW: [OT] Renewing Apple Developer ID Installer Certificate

[Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode]

Hi Marty,
even if your certificate expires on wednesday, your old signed apps will never 
expire, you just can't sign a new app with the old expired certificate.
Tiemo

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von 
Marty Knapp via use-livecode
Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Juli 2017 00:35
An: Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
Cc: Marty Knapp 
Betreff: Re: [OT] Renewing Apple Developer ID Installer Certificate

Thanks Colin. It is a bit different than iOS (and I'm not selling in the Mac 
App Store either). What I've done at this point is to generate new certificates 
for both the Developer ID Application and Developer ID Installer. There appears 
to be no renewal capability. I use AppWrapper to codesign my apps and in 
looking at the setup, I'm guessing that Developer ID Installer certificate, 
while required in AppWrapper, is only for when you build an installer package 
(I use a DMG).

I'll have to wait till Wednesday when my old certificates expire to see if I 
have trouble with the previously signed apps. If someone knows anything more, 
I'm all ears. Hopefully I'm good for another 5 years, when I'll forget how to 
do this all over again - I love getting old!

Marty
> I would think that it’s the same as with iOS. When you go back to 
> https://developer.apple.com/account/mac/certificate/ 
>  after renewing your 
> subscription it will most likely have an expired certificate. You make a new 
> one, then go to the provisioning profile for your app, it should show as 
> expired. Edit it and re-select the certificate, picking the new one.
>
> If the current certificate is still valid for a while you can still edit the 
> provisioning profile to give it a fresh start.
>
> If you edit a provisioning profile file you should find an ExpirationDate 
> entry that gives the date it will expire.
>
>
>> On Jul 3, 2017, at 12:23 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> I sell and distribute Mac apps from my own website and have the Apple 
>> Developer ID Application Certificate and the Developer ID Installer 
>> Certificate. I've been notified that they will both expire in a couple of 
>> days.
>>
>> According to the Apple web site, if the Developer ID Installer Certificate 
>> expires, users will *not* be able to install any applications signed with 
>> the certificate. (an expired Developer ID Application Certificate is not a 
>> problem for existing installers).
>>
>> What I can't seem to find are instructions on *renewing* the certificate. I 
>> found one article that said I needed to revoke the old one and then create a 
>> new one. That makes me a little nervous. Obviously I don't want to screw 
>> this up and have customers going crazy, while I'm frantically trying to 
>> figure out what to do.
>>
>> You would think that Apple would have an easy Steps 1-2-3 to renew, but I 
>> sure can't find them. Anyone done this recently? Should I revoke the old one 
>> or wait till it expires?
>>
>> Thanks for any help,
>> Marty
>>


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