Re: stack rect with decorations?

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Try "the effective rect of stack x".
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 13, 2018 9:58:42 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
 wrote:



My dictionary doesn't work and I don't see what I need in the See Also
for the online dicts, so maybe someone here remembers:

How do I specify that I want to set the rect of a stack where the
coordinates I'm passing are for the full outside rect, including all
window trimmings (border, title bar, etc.)?

TIA -

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: stack rect with decorations?

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

the effective rect

Thanks,
Brian
On Aug 13, 2018, 9:57 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> My dictionary doesn't work and I don't see what I need in the See Also
> for the online dicts, so maybe someone here remembers:
>
> How do I specify that I want to set the rect of a stack where the
> coordinates I'm passing are for the full outside rect, including all
> window trimmings (border, title bar, etc.)?
>
> TIA -
>
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

stack rect with decorations?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

My dictionary doesn't work and I don't see what I need in the See Also 
for the online dicts, so maybe someone here remembers:


How do I specify that I want to set the rect of a stack where the 
coordinates I'm passing are for the full outside rect, including all 
window trimmings (border, title bar, etc.)?


TIA -

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Navigator v 6 is out

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

A question for anyone/everyone working with Navigator: the prefs dialog is
actually set up to allow for many of the preferences to be specific to the
Navigator that opened the dialog, or universal. I went with universal by
default, but the code is all there. Is there any appetite for having a
different display string, or color scheme, or... for individual Navigators?

gc

>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Navigator v 6 is out

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

Yeah, a command to collapse the parent of the currently highlighted
control(s) would make sense, along with a collapse/expand all (to a certain
level), and a preference setting to open collapsed by default.

I'm ironing out some bugs right now, but I'll take a look at this first
thing -- should be straightforward, right?

As a general question, is there another/better way to do command keys in
Navigator than a front script (which I would like to avoid if possible)?

gc

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 2:26 PM Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> As always, thanks for this Geoff. Make working with big projects a lot
> better. Any chance you have a way to collapse all controls via some menu or
> keyboard sequence? And, can we expand all controls as well in some quick
> way?  I am thinking that I will default to having all collapsable controls
> be collapsed to I can move through the long list more quickly.
>
> Just some thoughts. We always want more rope….
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Talluto
> livecloud.io 
> nursenotes.net 
> canelasoftware.com 
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 10, 2018, at 5:56 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > *Group Folding! *Just click on the left 30 pixels of any group to
> > fold/unfold it. There is (so far) no visual indication that this is
> > possible, or that a group has been folded, but it's there. Suggestions
> > welcome on a better interface.
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Navigator v 6 is out

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

It's actually just the left 30 pixels to collapse/expand. I was going to
include the word "group" and everything to the left, but then I came up
with the "define your own display string" feature, which means that the
word "group" might not even be in the string. Personally, I'm liking just
displaying the first letter of the control type, bolded, but I'm not fully
convinced yet.

gc

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 2:39 PM Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> To collapse one time, just click the first word ‘group’. It will hide all
> the children to the group.
>
> To drill down, simple right click the group you want to focus on. Then
> select ‘Browse Controls’.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Talluto
> livecloud.io 
> nursenotes.net 
> canelasoftware.com 
>
> > On Aug 13, 2018, at 2:29 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I had the same thought. May a preference for open collapsed so we can
> drill down. I cannot see how to collapse just one item though.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >> On Aug 13, 2018, at 14:26 , Mark Talluto via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> As always, thanks for this Geoff. Make working with big projects a lot
> better. Any chance you have a way to collapse all controls via some menu or
> keyboard sequence? And, can we expand all controls as well in some quick
> way?  I am thinking that I will default to having all collapsable controls
> be collapsed to I can move through the long list more quickly.
> >>
> >> Just some thoughts. We always want more rope….
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Mark Talluto
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text rendering of Unicode text in LC

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

That's what I was thinking. Also, I noted that when developing on the Mac, I 
selected a bold typeface (not typeface with the bold style applied) for a 
common header label, but when I ported to Windows, LC was substituting the 
font! Upon further investigation, even though it was a standard web font 
included on both platforms, the Windows version did not have a bold typeface! 
So it just gave up thinking the typeface didn't exist and picked another font. 
So watch out for those little caveats. 

Bob S


> On Aug 13, 2018, at 15:50 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> As I said I'm pretty sure nothing is bold - it is just anti-aliasing.
> 
> The fact that the problem is only occurring on Chinese Windows systems in 
> 8.1.x very much suggests that this is a font problem (which is obviously 
> universal in Win10).
> 
> Perhaps try a complete non included with Win Chinese font and see if the 
> problem is seen then?
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text rendering of Unicode text in LC

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

As I said I'm pretty sure nothing is bold - it is just anti-aliasing.

The fact that the problem is only occurring on Chinese Windows systems in 8.1.x 
very much suggests that this is a font problem (which is obviously universal in 
Win10).

Perhaps try a complete non included with Win Chinese font and see if the 
problem is seen then?

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 13 Aug 2018, at 21:56, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Here is a sample of the Chinese text. It has a button to click to toggle 
> showing the text and the htmlText in the same fields. Note to see the text 
> problems you will have to open this in Windows 10. I must point out that the 
> LC 8 versions only show the anti-alias rendering problem in Chinese MS 
> Windows installations!
> 
> LC 9.0: Bold and not bold-looking rendered text mixed in together. It should 
> be NOT bold.
> LC 8.1.9:Shows bitmap glyphs in standard Windows OS. However it renders text 
> as anti-aliased but poorly in Chinese MS Windows installations
> LC 8.1.3 Shows bitmap glyphs in standard Windows OS. However it renders text 
> as anti-aliased but poorly in Chinese MS Windows installations
> 
> https://artsinteractive-products.s3.amazonaws.com/MITA/Chinese%20Display%20Sample.livecode
> 
> pb
> 
>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 1:11 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Mark for your reply.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Heh - well I can't explain the difference between 8.1.3 and 8.1.9 - there's 
>>> no changes to libgraphics or libskia between those two versions (as far as 
>>> I can see) also with a quick diff of the relevant source files I can't see 
>>> any relevant field changes, or image changes (which would be the cause of 
>>> the vertical stretching of the inline image). However, that was just with a 
>>> 'quick look' so can't say for absolute certain.
>>> 
>>> The main change we made to text rendering was between 8.1.x and 9.0.x - 
>>> when we updated Skia to the latest (at the time) version.
>>> 
>>> One thing I do notice looking at the text (although I don't read Chinese 
>>> ideographs, so I'm doing this purely on shape and a rather intense staring 
>>> at the LC9 image you provided) is this...
>>> 
>>> You never seem to get a character which looks the same appearing in 'bold' 
>>> and 'non-bold'. Now, this isn't bold and non-bold - this is sub-pixel 
>>> anti-aliased and bitmap I presume.
>>> 
>>> This makes me think that not all your glyphs are being rendered using 
>>> Songti SC Regular - and you are suffering from 'font fallback'. When the 
>>> chosen font does not contain glyphs that are needed, the 'closest matching' 
>>> font on the system which has those glyphs is used.
>> 
>> I’ll see if I can find repeated characters that would have missing glyphs.
>>> 
>>> If you can determine what ideographs are being rendered seemingly bold and 
>>> non-bold (by Unicode codepoint ideally) - then that might help diagnose 
>>> that (also finding a case where the same ideograph appears once as bold and 
>>> once as non-bold would prove that hypothesis false).
>>> 
>>> The other odd thing I notice is that the field containing the inline images 
>>> appears to have a slight drift downwards compared to the one without. You 
>>> can try using 'fixedLineHeight' of the fields to solve that - all 
>>> ideographic lines should have the same height (as ideographs are 
>>> traditionally drawn in a fixed grid).
>> 
>> I can’t use fixed line height, because we use inline “thumbnail” images that 
>> would span several lines. The Chinese readers haven’t complained about this 
>> particular issue. The do complain that the characters don’t have enough 
>> horizontal space when rendered.
>> 
>>> 
>>> If you can copy and paste the two example fields you have there (with 
>>> relevant image needed for the speaker so it renders) I can take a closer 
>>> look - looking at an image is not the best way to diagnose issues really!
>> 
>> I'll prepare a sample stack.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Warmest Regards,
>>> 
>>> Mark.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode 
>> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> p

Re: Using stackoverflow.com

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

> On 14 Aug 2018, at 5:08 am, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just curious...Why are these questions NOT being put on stackoverflow.com 
> ?
> This is now people, companies, and publications rank languages these days.

I was trying to encourage questions on SO a few years back. I did mergExt 
support there for that reason. SO is great for building a repository of 
knowledge, however, it is downright hostile if you don’t ask the question in 
the right way. One solution for the community is if people that have an 
interesting problem that is then discussed and resolved here or on the forums 
could then pose the question on SO and answer it themselves with the correct 
answer. That way the knowledge is better preserved.

Cheers

Monte
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Using stackoverflow.com

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

I think GitHub could be a great place to store/share stacks. Here is an example 
of what is possible:
https://github.com/bwmilby/lc-misc/tree/master/NestedDGBehavior

That is a binary stack but includes a readme.md that links to a screen shot and 
all scripts are exported from the stack and are viewable online (main ones 
linked in the readme). I use ScriptTracker (same repo) to export the stack 
scripts but have seen other tools that can generate text files too. That way 
people can browse the code and if they want to download they just need to get 
the one stack file to have everything.

I agree that just putting a stack on GitHub isn’t going to help people have any 
idea what they are viewing.

Thanks,
Brian
On Aug 13, 2018, 3:47 PM -0500, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
, wrote:
>
> > 1. Not sufficient 3rd party tools with a viable marketplace [also little on
> > Git]. If we have all these old LC scripts and they are open source, why
> > don't we just put them on git???
>
> There's some stuff on github, but it's not easy to find. Also, stacks
> that aren't script-only aren't a great fit for github other than as a
> means of somewhere to put them. Github is actually set up more for other
> team purposes than just a a repository for files.
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mark Wieder wrote:

On 08/13/2018 11:52 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Agreed.  To clarify, I know you well enough to know you've been around 
that block a few times.  I took this opportunity to write a "why 
licensing" post because I see a *lot* of libraries and other components 
in our community distributed with no license at all. Hopefully I was 
able to convey enough of the value of license declaration to encourage 
more folks to do it.




...and just to put this to rest, I want to say it was your urging many 
years ago that got me to craft a license in the first place.


I owe my curmudgeonliness to my local Linux user group, where we had a 
Github rep give a talk.  One of the items she mentioned was the 
importance of having license files in repos.  I've been a reformed man 
ever since. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Navigator v 6 is out

[Mark Talluto via use-livecode]

To collapse one time, just click the first word ‘group’. It will hide all the 
children to the group.

To drill down, simple right click the group you want to focus on. Then select 
‘Browse Controls’.

Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 

> On Aug 13, 2018, at 2:29 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I had the same thought. May a preference for open collapsed so we can drill 
> down. I cannot see how to collapse just one item though. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 14:26 , Mark Talluto via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> As always, thanks for this Geoff. Make working with big projects a lot 
>> better. Any chance you have a way to collapse all controls via some menu or 
>> keyboard sequence? And, can we expand all controls as well in some quick 
>> way?  I am thinking that I will default to having all collapsable controls 
>> be collapsed to I can move through the long list more quickly.
>> 
>> Just some thoughts. We always want more rope….
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Mark Talluto
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Using stackoverflow.com

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

agreed on all points .

Re LC Share...Had I not fallen in love with Livecode due to its cosmic
arrival in my life i would have clicked the x and never gone back as soon
as i saw the examples on lc share.  its  so incredibly underwhelming.  i
think its something that must be improved, down to the level of being able
to download individual commands and functions that do specific things...and
can be easily updated by those who shared their stuff there.

seems like LC is still going uphill ...but at some point . peak
difficulty will be reached and the big leaps forward can happen must
more easily.

If I was livecode...i would spend a lot of time consolidating and updating
the learning resources.

And I would post on social media when there is an event happening.


On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 4:45 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 08/13/2018 12:08 PM, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode wrote:
>
> Also, we have two clients who select NOT to have us use LiveCode this
>> month.
>>
>
> Been there. Several times. I feel your pain.
>
> 1. Not sufficient 3rd party tools with a viable marketplace [also little on
>> Git]. If we have all these old LC scripts and they are open source, why
>> don't we just put them on git???
>>
>
> There's some stuff on github, but it's not easy to find. Also, stacks that
> aren't script-only aren't a great fit for github other than as a means of
> somewhere to put them. Github is actually set up more for other team
> purposes than just a a repository for files.
>
> 
> There's livecodeshare, but you have to know about it in order to look for
> it, it's on runrev.com instead of livecode.com/org, posting and updating
> stacks there is a pain, and it's only for complete stacks. There's no way
> to upload scripts as text and no way to upload widgets. There's actually no
> place to upload widgets that I know of other than the web forum, and
> searching for things there is byzantine.
> 
>
> 2. small community on StackOverflow.
>>
>
> I use stackoverflow all the time. It's an essential resource. I 
> never use it for LC bc the community isn't there. The resources are here
> instead.
>
> And please someone work on the www.slant.co.
>>
>
> I'm with Paul on this. I never heard of slant (I first read that as
> 'slack') and I'm wary of it. Unfortunately people tend to believe what they
> see on the internet. Even if it's not in color .
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Navigator v 6 is out

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I had the same thought. May a preference for open collapsed so we can drill 
down. I cannot see how to collapse just one item though. 

Bob S

> On Aug 13, 2018, at 14:26 , Mark Talluto via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> As always, thanks for this Geoff. Make working with big projects a lot 
> better. Any chance you have a way to collapse all controls via some menu or 
> keyboard sequence? And, can we expand all controls as well in some quick way? 
>  I am thinking that I will default to having all collapsable controls be 
> collapsed to I can move through the long list more quickly.
> 
> Just some thoughts. We always want more rope….
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Talluto

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Navigator v 6 is out

[Mark Talluto via use-livecode]

As always, thanks for this Geoff. Make working with big projects a lot better. 
Any chance you have a way to collapse all controls via some menu or keyboard 
sequence? And, can we expand all controls as well in some quick way?  I am 
thinking that I will default to having all collapsable controls be collapsed to 
I can move through the long list more quickly.

Just some thoughts. We always want more rope….

Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 




> On Aug 10, 2018, at 5:56 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> *Group Folding! *Just click on the left 30 pixels of any group to
> fold/unfold it. There is (so far) no visual indication that this is
> possible, or that a group has been folded, but it's there. Suggestions
> welcome on a better interface.

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text rendering of Unicode text in LC

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Here is a sample of the Chinese text. It has a button to click to toggle 
showing the text and the htmlText in the same fields. Note to see the text 
problems you will have to open this in Windows 10. I must point out that the LC 
8 versions only show the anti-alias rendering problem in Chinese MS Windows 
installations!

LC 9.0: Bold and not bold-looking rendered text mixed in together. It should be 
NOT bold.
LC 8.1.9:Shows bitmap glyphs in standard Windows OS. However it renders text as 
anti-aliased but poorly in Chinese MS Windows installations
LC 8.1.3 Shows bitmap glyphs in standard Windows OS. However it renders text as 
anti-aliased but poorly in Chinese MS Windows installations

https://artsinteractive-products.s3.amazonaws.com/MITA/Chinese%20Display%20Sample.livecode

pb

> On Aug 13, 2018, at 1:11 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Mark for your reply.
> 
>> 
>> Heh - well I can't explain the difference between 8.1.3 and 8.1.9 - there's 
>> no changes to libgraphics or libskia between those two versions (as far as I 
>> can see) also with a quick diff of the relevant source files I can't see any 
>> relevant field changes, or image changes (which would be the cause of the 
>> vertical stretching of the inline image). However, that was just with a 
>> 'quick look' so can't say for absolute certain.
>> 
>> The main change we made to text rendering was between 8.1.x and 9.0.x - when 
>> we updated Skia to the latest (at the time) version.
>> 
>> One thing I do notice looking at the text (although I don't read Chinese 
>> ideographs, so I'm doing this purely on shape and a rather intense staring 
>> at the LC9 image you provided) is this...
>> 
>> You never seem to get a character which looks the same appearing in 'bold' 
>> and 'non-bold'. Now, this isn't bold and non-bold - this is sub-pixel 
>> anti-aliased and bitmap I presume.
>> 
>> This makes me think that not all your glyphs are being rendered using Songti 
>> SC Regular - and you are suffering from 'font fallback'. When the chosen 
>> font does not contain glyphs that are needed, the 'closest matching' font on 
>> the system which has those glyphs is used.
> 
> I’ll see if I can find repeated characters that would have missing glyphs.
>> 
>> If you can determine what ideographs are being rendered seemingly bold and 
>> non-bold (by Unicode codepoint ideally) - then that might help diagnose that 
>> (also finding a case where the same ideograph appears once as bold and once 
>> as non-bold would prove that hypothesis false).
>> 
>> The other odd thing I notice is that the field containing the inline images 
>> appears to have a slight drift downwards compared to the one without. You 
>> can try using 'fixedLineHeight' of the fields to solve that - all 
>> ideographic lines should have the same height (as ideographs are 
>> traditionally drawn in a fixed grid).
> 
> I can’t use fixed line height, because we use inline “thumbnail” images that 
> would span several lines. The Chinese readers haven’t complained about this 
> particular issue. The do complain that the characters don’t have enough 
> horizontal space when rendered.
> 
>> 
>> If you can copy and paste the two example fields you have there (with 
>> relevant image needed for the speaker so it renders) I can take a closer 
>> look - looking at an image is not the best way to diagnose issues really!
> 
> I'll prepare a sample stack.
> 
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode 
> 
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Using stackoverflow.com

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/13/2018 12:08 PM, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode wrote:


Also, we have two clients who select NOT to have us use LiveCode this
month.


Been there. Several times. I feel your pain.


1. Not sufficient 3rd party tools with a viable marketplace [also little on
Git]. If we have all these old LC scripts and they are open source, why
don't we just put them on git???


There's some stuff on github, but it's not easy to find. Also, stacks 
that aren't script-only aren't a great fit for github other than as a 
means of somewhere to put them. Github is actually set up more for other 
team purposes than just a a repository for files.



There's livecodeshare, but you have to know about it in order to look 
for it, it's on runrev.com instead of livecode.com/org, posting and 
updating stacks there is a pain, and it's only for complete stacks. 
There's no way to upload scripts as text and no way to upload widgets. 
There's actually no place to upload widgets that I know of other than 
the web forum, and searching for things there is byzantine.




2. small community on StackOverflow.


I use stackoverflow all the time. It's an essential resource. I  
never use it for LC bc the community isn't there. The resources are here 
instead.



And please someone work on the www.slant.co.


I'm with Paul on this. I never heard of slant (I first read that as 
'slack') and I'm wary of it. Unfortunately people tend to believe what 
they see on the internet. Even if it's not in color .


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Bug in the pageHeights function

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

I don't know how many people have old fashion printing in their apps (I
know, printing is so 20th century!). I wanted to let anyone out there
using the pageHeights function that there is a bug in pageHeights from
LC6.7.x through LC9.0.0 that returns really wacky numbers for certain
content of the field the pageHeights is being computed for.

For the exact same field, no change in properties, just changing teh
content by setting the htmlText, different content will generate
abnormal pageHeights numbers. For example

For LC9.0.0, the pageHeights reports
692
689
-51061

For LC6.7.11, the pageHeights reports
667
666
4294919018

Correct values are returned under LC6.6.5. It took use a long time to
track this down because it does appear to be content based! So, just in
case any others have been experiencing very weird random printing issue,
I wanted to let folks know.

See https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21491


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Android compass question

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 8/11/18 3:34 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:

I have a new galaxy phone. When I read the mobile compass, both magnetic 
heading and true heading constantly change - even if the phone is laying down 
still. It changes up and down randomly by 5 degrees or so. Does anyone know if 
this is a problem with LC or with galaxy phones? My iPhone does not do this.


My Galaxy S5 does the same thing with a LC compass I made. My guess is 
that's the way Android reads GPS data. When it tries to find my house, 
it does a whole bunch of hops around the circumference before settling 
down on the center, and even then it still twitches as it tries for more 
accuracy.


A compass I downloaded from the Play Store does not do that on my Pixel. 
I'd guess that the app is doing some rounding to the nearest integer, 
since it doesn't display fractional values.


Try downloading a few of the dozens of compasses on the Play Store and 
see how they behave. It may be that LC is actually more precise than you 
want it to be. I do know that LC is only reporting what the OS tells it.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text rendering of Unicode text in LC

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Thanks Mark for your reply.

> 
> Heh - well I can't explain the difference between 8.1.3 and 8.1.9 - there's 
> no changes to libgraphics or libskia between those two versions (as far as I 
> can see) also with a quick diff of the relevant source files I can't see any 
> relevant field changes, or image changes (which would be the cause of the 
> vertical stretching of the inline image). However, that was just with a 
> 'quick look' so can't say for absolute certain.
> 
> The main change we made to text rendering was between 8.1.x and 9.0.x - when 
> we updated Skia to the latest (at the time) version.
> 
> One thing I do notice looking at the text (although I don't read Chinese 
> ideographs, so I'm doing this purely on shape and a rather intense staring at 
> the LC9 image you provided) is this...
> 
> You never seem to get a character which looks the same appearing in 'bold' 
> and 'non-bold'. Now, this isn't bold and non-bold - this is sub-pixel 
> anti-aliased and bitmap I presume.
> 
> This makes me think that not all your glyphs are being rendered using Songti 
> SC Regular - and you are suffering from 'font fallback'. When the chosen font 
> does not contain glyphs that are needed, the 'closest matching' font on the 
> system which has those glyphs is used.

I’ll see if I can find repeated characters that would have missing glyphs.
> 
> If you can determine what ideographs are being rendered seemingly bold and 
> non-bold (by Unicode codepoint ideally) - then that might help diagnose that 
> (also finding a case where the same ideograph appears once as bold and once 
> as non-bold would prove that hypothesis false).
> 
> The other odd thing I notice is that the field containing the inline images 
> appears to have a slight drift downwards compared to the one without. You can 
> try using 'fixedLineHeight' of the fields to solve that - all ideographic 
> lines should have the same height (as ideographs are traditionally drawn in a 
> fixed grid).

I can’t use fixed line height, because we use inline “thumbnail” images that 
would span several lines. The Chinese readers haven’t complained about this 
particular issue. The do complain that the characters don’t have enough 
horizontal space when rendered.

> 
> If you can copy and paste the two example fields you have there (with 
> relevant image needed for the speaker so it renders) I can take a closer look 
> - looking at an image is not the best way to diagnose issues really!

I'll prepare a sample stack.

> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/13/2018 11:52 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Agreed.  To clarify, I know you well enough to know you've been around 
that block a few times.  I took this opportunity to write a "why 
licensing" post because I see a *lot* of libraries and other components 
in our community distributed with no license at all. Hopefully I was 
able to convey enough of the value of license declaration to encourage 
more folks to do it.




...and just to put this to rest, I want to say it was your urging many 
years ago that got me to craft a license in the first place.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text rendering of Unicode text in LC

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Hi Richmond, thanks for your reply. I realize this is for most an obscure 
corner of the world.

> 
> I don't know HOW you are getting the Chinese characters to show up, and as 
> your sample
> does not contain selectable text I cannot "go backwards for Christmas" and 
> work out
> what the Unicode addresses of some of those glyphs are.

This is a screen shot from virtual Windows 10 on my Mac in LC 9.0. On the Mac, 
of course, it’s beautiful. The exact same HTML displayed in LC 8 versions in 
Windows don’t show this particular problem of a visual mix of styles (there’s 
other problems). It’s a very large project, but I’ll prepare a small stack 
example.


> My own experience with Unicode in LiveCode has been confined to Indic, Slavic 
> and Old English
> alphabetic forms and I have always ended up with "proper" anti-aliased true 
> type representation.

I want to assume that “proper" display would happen here. LC 8 rendering is 
uniformly bad, not un-evenly bad as LC 9. The Chinese editor tells me that each 
character is too close to the next—it looks squished together. Words are made 
up of 1-3 characters and they need space around them. She describes the “bold” 
looking characters in LC 9 as looking like a display font, not for body text.
> 
> ---
> 
> At the risk of being seen as extremely goofy . . .
> 
> Are ALL your Chinese characters contained in a single font?

Yes, I went back reselected text and set the fonts to make sure. I studied the 
HTML to look for anomalies, but all appears normal.
> 
> [Even though that is claimed on the page]
> 
> --
> 
> Certainly IFF all your Chinese characters are contained in a single font and 
> are
> NOT differently weighted (i.e. some are not BOLD while others are not)
> I don't think LiveCode should be at fault.

Yes, that’s why I’m asking about the Skia rendering. Anyone at Livecode to help 
with this?
> 
> What makes things a bit awkward is how your text images online are generated 
> . . .
> 
> If you were to export a PNG or JPEG image from your textField inwith your 
> LiveCode stack
> you would get an EXACT representation of what the field looked like.
> 
> My experience of exporting a field as HTMLtext has also always been positive 
> as long
> as the font of the resultant HTML page is a webfont derived from the font 
> used inwith LiveCode.

I saved the HTML to a file, opened it in Firefox in Windows and it is great, as 
it should be. The same HTML displayed in LC is subpar.
> 
> 
> I won't pretend to understand what you say about Skia.
> 
> But I do wonder why there has to be anything between LiveCode and your web 
> representation.
> 
> -
> I, also, don't understand the necessity for Adobe Spark.
> 
> But I'm one of those people who like to keep things simple.

Spark was a free, quick solution to get the images up.
> 
> This: http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/richmond/dwriterpro.html
> 
> contains NOTHING more than simple images rendered out of a LiveCode stack as 
> screenshots from a textField.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 13/8/2018 10:02 pm, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote:
>> To follow up with my question from yesterday…and to continue with Biblical 
>> allusions others have begun…
>> 
>> I’ve descended into  hell, which I’m trying get out with some light 
>> from LiveCode Mark!
>> 
>> To recap, the rendering of Chinese characters in Windows 10 is willy-nilly 
>> through different versions of LC. Earlier versions display bitmap glyphs, 
>> later versions display drawn characters. Now in LC 9.0 it displays a MIX of 
>> apparent bold and plain of characters all set identically.
>> 
>> Examples:
>> https://spark.adobe.com/page/clCst4mdUu8Jy/ 
>> 
>> 
>> What’s going on here? Bugs?
>> 
>> My personal situation—this is a multi-year project that includes one of the 
>> two largest academic book publishers in China who are looking to our project 
>> as the vanguard of digital publishing in their country. They are looking at 
>> this text display and saying, “we can’t publish this.” Now, they want to 
>> show it at a publishing conference...
>> 
>> The Chinese translators say the bitmap text is great, but the anti-aliased 
>> rendered text is unusable. And everyone there has Windows. We with 
>> roman-text eyes don’t necessarily see a problem; they with Chinese character 
>> eyes are very particular.
>> 
>> I’m supposing this is Skia doing the work (with the harfbuzz text shaping 
>> library?)?? If true, I see from the Skin/harfbuzz documentation on Font 
>> Embedded Bitmaps:
>> 
>> "bool isEmbeddedBitmapText() const
>> Returns true if Font Engine may return Glyphs from font bitmaps instead of 
>> from outlines.”
>> 
>> https://skia.org/user/api/SkPaint_Reference#Subpixel_Text
>> 
>> 
>> Can there be a font property option to display just the bitmap? Or are there 
>> other fixes that can be made?
>> 
>> Peter Bogdanoff
>> ArtsInteractive
>> 
>>> On Aug 12, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use

Re: Text rendering of Unicode text in LC

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2018-08-13 21:02, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote:

To follow up with my question from yesterday…and to continue with
Biblical allusions others have begun…

I’ve descended into  hell, which I’m trying get out with some
light from LiveCode Mark!


Heh - well I can't explain the difference between 8.1.3 and 8.1.9 - 
there's no changes to libgraphics or libskia between those two versions 
(as far as I can see) also with a quick diff of the relevant source 
files I can't see any relevant field changes, or image changes (which 
would be the cause of the vertical stretching of the inline image). 
However, that was just with a 'quick look' so can't say for absolute 
certain.


The main change we made to text rendering was between 8.1.x and 9.0.x - 
when we updated Skia to the latest (at the time) version.


One thing I do notice looking at the text (although I don't read Chinese 
ideographs, so I'm doing this purely on shape and a rather intense 
staring at the LC9 image you provided) is this...


You never seem to get a character which looks the same appearing in 
'bold' and 'non-bold'. Now, this isn't bold and non-bold - this is 
sub-pixel anti-aliased and bitmap I presume.


This makes me think that not all your glyphs are being rendered using 
Songti SC Regular - and you are suffering from 'font fallback'. When the 
chosen font does not contain glyphs that are needed, the 'closest 
matching' font on the system which has those glyphs is used.


If you can determine what ideographs are being rendered seemingly bold 
and non-bold (by Unicode codepoint ideally) - then that might help 
diagnose that (also finding a case where the same ideograph appears once 
as bold and once as non-bold would prove that hypothesis false).


The other odd thing I notice is that the field containing the inline 
images appears to have a slight drift downwards compared to the one 
without. You can try using 'fixedLineHeight' of the fields to solve that 
- all ideographic lines should have the same height (as ideographs are 
traditionally drawn in a fixed grid).


If you can copy and paste the two example fields you have there (with 
relevant image needed for the speaker so it renders) I can take a closer 
look - looking at an image is not the best way to diagnose issues 
really!


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mark Wieder wrote:

> On 08/13/2018 11:22 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> And personally, I think that's very useful for all of us, well worth
>> the time it takes to find and include explicit license terms that
>> express our intentions.
>
> What I said. And by misspeaking 'no license' what I meant was that
> there is no subscription involved, no license checking in the
> software, no restrictions on use... you bought it, it's yours to use.
>
> ...and now I'd like to get away from licensing and back to python.

Agreed.  To clarify, I know you well enough to know you've been around 
that block a few times.  I took this opportunity to write a "why 
licensing" post because I see a *lot* of libraries and other components 
in our community distributed with no license at all. Hopefully I was 
able to convey enough of the value of license declaration to encourage 
more folks to do it.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Using stackoverflow.com

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

I have heard of and use (occasionally) stackoverflow.com

Never heard of Slant and I'm not sure that in this day and age of paid
marketing disguised as "independent" reviews, that I would trust ANY
website for product recommendations that I or someone I trust had not
personally tried.

Just one opinion.

On 8/13/2018 3:08 PM, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode wrote:
> Just curious...Why are these questions NOT being put on stackoverflow.com?
> This is now people, companies, and publications rank languages these days.
>
> I think I have seen a post on people asking before, but it seems
> self-defeating to keep these post in the format. The new kids on the block
> and the old times do not benefit because they are not indexed by Google
> properly.
>
> Also, we have two clients who select NOT to have us use LiveCode this
> month. Something needs to change here. I am a strong believer that the
> community needs to step forward and do something. The two reasons they want
> a different environment were:
>
> 1. Not sufficient 3rd party tools with a viable marketplace [also little on
> Git]. If we have all these old LC scripts and they are open source, why
> don't we just put them on git???
>
> and
>
> 2. small community on StackOverflow.
>
>
> And please someone work on the www.slant.co. Here it is if you are
> unaware:  https://medium.com/building-slant/what-is-slant-5a836b200c0
> People really read this stuff and I can't get clients to use livecode. It's
> a real problem that needs to be addressed. I try not to complain and I
> think the community needs to step forward.
>
> https://www.slant.co/versus/119/124/~livecode_vs_scratch
> https://www.slant.co/versus/119/125/~livecode_vs_php
> https://www.slant.co/versus/119/126/~livecode_vs_golang
> https://www.slant.co/versus/119/381/~livecode_vs_haxe
>
>
> We all suffer as a community when we can not get companies who would commit
> resources and new young blood. Don't just want to complain. I am happy to
> put some resources into widgets. We have been working on a few.
>
> --Todd
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text rendering of Unicode text in LC

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I've just had a look at you sample: 
https://spark.adobe.com/page/clCst4mdUu8Jy/


and I have to admit that plain-bold apparently random alternation is 
pretty pug-ugly.


I don't know HOW you are getting the Chinese characters to show up, and 
as your sample
does not contain selectable text I cannot "go backwards for Christmas" 
and work out

what the Unicode addresses of some of those glyphs are.

My own experience with Unicode in LiveCode has been confined to Indic, 
Slavic and Old English
alphabetic forms and I have always ended up with "proper" anti-aliased 
true type representation.


---

At the risk of being seen as extremely goofy . . .

Are ALL your Chinese characters contained in a single font?

[Even though that is claimed on the page]

--

Certainly IFF all your Chinese characters are contained in a single font 
and are

NOT differently weighted (i.e. some are not BOLD while others are not)
I don't think LiveCode should be at fault.

What makes things a bit awkward is how your text images online are 
generated . . .


If you were to export a PNG or JPEG image from your textField inwith 
your LiveCode stack

you would get an EXACT representation of what the field looked like.

My experience of exporting a field as HTMLtext has also always been 
positive as long
as the font of the resultant HTML page is a webfont derived from the 
font used inwith LiveCode.



I won't pretend to understand what you say about Skia.

But I do wonder why there has to be anything between LiveCode and your 
web representation.


-
I, also, don't understand the necessity for Adobe Spark.

But I'm one of those people who like to keep things simple.

This: http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/richmond/dwriterpro.html

contains NOTHING more than simple images rendered out of a LiveCode 
stack as screenshots from a textField.


Richmond.

On 13/8/2018 10:02 pm, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote:

To follow up with my question from yesterday…and to continue with Biblical 
allusions others have begun…

I’ve descended into  hell, which I’m trying get out with some light from 
LiveCode Mark!

To recap, the rendering of Chinese characters in Windows 10 is willy-nilly 
through different versions of LC. Earlier versions display bitmap glyphs, later 
versions display drawn characters. Now in LC 9.0 it displays a MIX of apparent 
bold and plain of characters all set identically.

Examples:
https://spark.adobe.com/page/clCst4mdUu8Jy/ 


What’s going on here? Bugs?

My personal situation—this is a multi-year project that includes one of the two 
largest academic book publishers in China who are looking to our project as the 
vanguard of digital publishing in their country. They are looking at this text 
display and saying, “we can’t publish this.” Now, they want to show it at a 
publishing conference...

The Chinese translators say the bitmap text is great, but the anti-aliased 
rendered text is unusable. And everyone there has Windows. We with roman-text 
eyes don’t necessarily see a problem; they with Chinese character eyes are very 
particular.

I’m supposing this is Skia doing the work (with the harfbuzz text shaping 
library?)?? If true, I see from the Skin/harfbuzz documentation on Font 
Embedded Bitmaps:

"bool isEmbeddedBitmapText() const
Returns true if Font Engine may return Glyphs from font bitmaps instead of from 
outlines.”

https://skia.org/user/api/SkPaint_Reference#Subpixel_Text


Can there be a font property option to display just the bitmap? Or are there 
other fixes that can be made?

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive


On Aug 12, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Songti SC Regular

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Using stackoverflow.com

[Todd Fabacher via use-livecode]

Just curious...Why are these questions NOT being put on stackoverflow.com?
This is now people, companies, and publications rank languages these days.

I think I have seen a post on people asking before, but it seems
self-defeating to keep these post in the format. The new kids on the block
and the old times do not benefit because they are not indexed by Google
properly.

Also, we have two clients who select NOT to have us use LiveCode this
month. Something needs to change here. I am a strong believer that the
community needs to step forward and do something. The two reasons they want
a different environment were:

1. Not sufficient 3rd party tools with a viable marketplace [also little on
Git]. If we have all these old LC scripts and they are open source, why
don't we just put them on git???

and

2. small community on StackOverflow.


And please someone work on the www.slant.co. Here it is if you are
unaware:  https://medium.com/building-slant/what-is-slant-5a836b200c0
People really read this stuff and I can't get clients to use livecode. It's
a real problem that needs to be addressed. I try not to complain and I
think the community needs to step forward.

https://www.slant.co/versus/119/124/~livecode_vs_scratch
https://www.slant.co/versus/119/125/~livecode_vs_php
https://www.slant.co/versus/119/126/~livecode_vs_golang
https://www.slant.co/versus/119/381/~livecode_vs_haxe


We all suffer as a community when we can not get companies who would commit
resources and new young blood. Don't just want to complain. I am happy to
put some resources into widgets. We have been working on a few.

--Todd
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/13/2018 11:39 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

Yes - its changed over the years - mostly not particularly notably (and 
mainly due to the transition from privately owned to the PSF I think). I 


And possibly more changes in the works, now that GvR stepped down as 
Benevolent Dictator For Life (BDFL) last month.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Text rendering of Unicode text in LC

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

To follow up with my question from yesterday…and to continue with Biblical 
allusions others have begun…

I’ve descended into  hell, which I’m trying get out with some light from 
LiveCode Mark!

To recap, the rendering of Chinese characters in Windows 10 is willy-nilly 
through different versions of LC. Earlier versions display bitmap glyphs, later 
versions display drawn characters. Now in LC 9.0 it displays a MIX of apparent 
bold and plain of characters all set identically.

Examples:
https://spark.adobe.com/page/clCst4mdUu8Jy/ 
 

What’s going on here? Bugs?

My personal situation—this is a multi-year project that includes one of the two 
largest academic book publishers in China who are looking to our project as the 
vanguard of digital publishing in their country. They are looking at this text 
display and saying, “we can’t publish this.” Now, they want to show it at a 
publishing conference...

The Chinese translators say the bitmap text is great, but the anti-aliased 
rendered text is unusable. And everyone there has Windows. We with roman-text 
eyes don’t necessarily see a problem; they with Chinese character eyes are very 
particular.

I’m supposing this is Skia doing the work (with the harfbuzz text shaping 
library?)?? If true, I see from the Skin/harfbuzz documentation on Font 
Embedded Bitmaps:

"bool isEmbeddedBitmapText() const
Returns true if Font Engine may return Glyphs from font bitmaps instead of from 
outlines.”

https://skia.org/user/api/SkPaint_Reference#Subpixel_Text


Can there be a font property option to display just the bitmap? Or are there 
other fixes that can be made? 

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive

> On Aug 12, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Songti SC Regular

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2018-08-13 20:26, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

Ah, Software Licensing Agreement
(For both personal and commercial use).

For humans:

You bought a copy of this software, it's yours to do whatever you like.
The code is open for you to examine or modify.
Don't take me to court saying you have claims on this software,
because you don't.
Please don't give out copies to others.
If you find bugs, please let me know and I'll fix them and everybody 
gains.

If it turns out that this agreement doesn't match up with LiveCode's
license agreement, I'll update it.

The lawyers part is longer and translates the above into something
that even lawyers can read.


Hehe - lawyers do need special-casing at times :)

Anyway the above sounds like a perfectly reasonable license - but it is 
a license (and not a 'silly' one ;)) - so I wasn't trying to start 
anything, just trying to prod you into admitting that you do actually 
have a license attached to your software :oP.



Copyright © 1991 - 1995, Stichting Mathematisch Centrum Amsterdam, The
Netherlands.  All rights reserved.

Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
documentation for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted,
provided that the above copyright notice appear in all copies and that
both that copyright notice and this permission notice appear in
supporting documentation, and that the name of Stichting Mathematisch
Centrum or CWI not be used in advertising or publicity pertaining to
distribution of the software without specific, written prior
permission.

STICHTING MATHEMATISCH CENTRUM DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES WITH REGARD TO
THIS SOFTWARE, INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND
FITNESS, IN NO EVENT SHALL STICHTING MATHEMATISCH CENTRUM BE LIABLE
FOR ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES
WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN
ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT
OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE.


Yes - its changed over the years - mostly not particularly notably (and 
mainly due to the transition from privately owned to the PSF I think). I 
only pulled out the latest (3.7) version because I haven't seen 
something *requiring* documentation of a 'change against the base' 
clause before (and I've read a *LOT* of software licenses over the years 
both closed and open source!).


For a language system, it isn't a bad idea to be honest - it makes forks 
absolutely crystal clear as forks which is perhaps much more important 
when changes to language syntax and semantics are in play.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/13/2018 11:22 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

And personally, I think that's very useful for all of us, well worth the 
time it takes to find and include explicit license terms that express 
our intentions.




What I said. And by misspeaking 'no license' what I meant was that there 
is no subscription involved, no license checking in the software, no 
restrictions on use... you bought it, it's yours to use.


...and now I'd like to get away from licensing and back to python.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k1ccguXiws

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LC 9 and Memory

[Stephen MacLean via use-livecode]

> On Aug 13, 2018, at 2:07 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is there any way to split up the processing of a single batch into pieces, 
> each run in its own process (sequentially?) - that approach actually gives 
> you two things - (1) a fix to the exhaustion problem you are having and (2) 
> the ability to recover most of the batch if one piece fails.
> 

It’s about a split up as I can make it… I like to do that myself because 1) 
Helps me follow the code better 2) As you said, a failure or error won’t botch 
the whole thing. The only way to really make it smaller would be to limit the 
query. But, after this initial “heavy lifting”, it will be run against MUCH 
smaller data sets, on a regular basis. At which point it probably won’t matter, 
but I can see a cumulative effect build up if it is a memory leak.

I will let you know on the dump.

Best,

Steve



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/13/2018 10:32 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

> I've no intention of starting a licensing war and I'm not, but I 
think I do have to make an important point so as to not mislead others 
who are also looking to sell the software they produce (of which there 
are probably a fair few on this list - since this is a development tool 
mailing list!).


OK. Fair points. My use of 'no license' and 'silly licensing' was a bit 
off the cuff and not intended to start what this is becoming. So let me 
just say that I do indeed issue a license with the stacks, and the 
licensing fits somewhere in between MIT and WTF. There are two parts: 
for humans, and for lawyers. Here's the human part:


Ah, Software Licensing Agreement
(For both personal and commercial use).

For humans:

You bought a copy of this software, it's yours to do whatever you like.
The code is open for you to examine or modify.
Don't take me to court saying you have claims on this software, because 
you don't.

Please don't give out copies to others.
If you find bugs, please let me know and I'll fix them and everybody gains.
If it turns out that this agreement doesn't match up with LiveCode's 
license agreement, I'll update it.


The lawyers part is longer and translates the above into something that 
even lawyers can read.


> Also, I should also point out that Python does come with a software 
license.


As should any FOSS product. Interestingly, here's the original python 
license in its entirety:


Copyright © 1991 - 1995, Stichting Mathematisch Centrum Amsterdam, The
Netherlands.  All rights reserved.

Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
documentation for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted, 
provided that the above copyright notice appear in all copies and that 
both that copyright notice and this permission notice appear in 
supporting documentation, and that the name of Stichting Mathematisch 
Centrum or CWI not be used in advertising or publicity pertaining to 
distribution of the software without specific, written prior permission.


STICHTING MATHEMATISCH CENTRUM DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES WITH REGARD TO 
THIS SOFTWARE, INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND 
FITNESS, IN NO EVENT SHALL STICHTING MATHEMATISCH CENTRUM BE LIABLE FOR 
ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER 
RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF 
CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF OR IN 
CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mark Wieder wrote:

> Not wanting to get into licensing wars here (the 'silly licensing'
> thing was not meant to be a poke at LC), but the stacks I sell have an
> initial low purchase price but no 'license' involved.

Everyone who respects creative work, and certainly every professional 
looking out for the well-being of their customers and their company, 
doesn't just want licensing, they need it.


The Berne Convention codified into international law a deeply profound 
idea:  the author of an original creative work fully owns that work at 
the very moment of creation, and has sole authority over how it is 
shared.  In doing so, we now have nearly-universal agreement that the 
products of the human mind are no less important than the products of 
our hands.  Recognizing this primacy of creators encourages creation.


Licensing is the means by which a creator lets the world know what their 
intentions are for the thing they've created.


Without a license, the principles that gave rise to the Berne Convention 
take precedence, so the work belongs only to its creator and can be 
distributed by no one.


Licenses express how a creator wants to let others share the work.

Even if the author wants to completely transfer all rights to the work 
to everyone on the planet without any restrictions of any kind, that 
needs to be explicitly declared (using "Public Domain" for that is 
especially useful since the phrase is well recognized as serving that 
purpose).


Most other licenses retain ownership by the work's creator, granting 
various permissions for others to use and share the work.  Some of these 
licenses may also grant rights to the source code, others may keep the 
source code proprietary.


We have many licenses for many purposes, and it is the creator's right 
to craft their own license if they choose (though there are negative 
implications with open source projects using a non-standard license, but 
that's another topic).


The main point here is that any copyrightable work released without any 
specific license at all cannot ethically or legally be used by anyone.


Whether that's enforced is a separate matter, but those who respect 
original creative works will expect a license to allow them to know what 
they can and cannot do with it.


Because if there is no license, under Berne Convention jurisdiction they 
can do nothing with it.


And personally, I think that's very useful for all of us, well worth the 
time it takes to find and include explicit license terms that express 
our intentions.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LC 9 and Memory

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2018-08-13 20:01, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Mark,

Yes, doing quite a bit, which LC handles just fine:) Except for these
with big queries;) I do want to mention that I call plenty of
functions, so it’s not a real tight loop, just a loop with a lot going
on.

Ok, will do the next time I run one of these… These big batches take
about 5 hours to run.


From what you said in your other message this could well be a 
memory-leak...


However, the other potential cause is what's called 
'heap-fragmentation'. Whilst memory is being freed correctly, sometimes 
certain use patterns can cause the C heap to consist of 'mostly free 
space', but having no contiguous block large enough to allocate some of 
the blocks of memory you are using - so the heap gets extended. When you 
do free a 'big block' it gets used up by lots of small blocks.


Basically, the heap becomes like a block of swiss-cheese - you can fit 
small things in the holes, but nothing big.


The 'heap' report will help determine what's going on there (you don't 
need to run it until you get to the exhaustion point - just for a while 
until you see the gradually continual rise).


By looking at the report it is possible to tell the actual % of memory 
in use in the heap overall.


Is there any way to split up the processing of a single batch into 
pieces, each run in its own process (sequentially?) - that approach 
actually gives you two things - (1) a fix to the exhaustion problem you 
are having and (2) the ability to recover most of the batch if one piece 
fails.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LC 9 and Memory

[Stephen MacLean via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,

Yes, doing quite a bit, which LC handles just fine:) Except for these with big 
queries;) I do want to mention that I call plenty of functions, so it’s not a 
real tight loop, just a loop with a lot going on. 

Ok, will do the next time I run one of these… These big batches take about 5 
hours to run.

Thanks,

Steve

> On Aug 13, 2018, at 1:55 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2018-08-13 19:42, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode wrote:
>> Anyone experience this before? Any tips for  controlling it?
> 
> Well it sounds like you are doing a fair bit there so its really hard to say 
> whether or not there is a memory leak.
> 
> The first thing to do is to find out whether that is actually 22Gb in use, or 
> just an 'illusion'.
> 
> Leave you application running so that you can observe the gradually increase 
> of memory. Then determine its PID (should be visible in Activity Monitor) 
> then do from Terminal:
> 
>  heap 
> 
> And share the report which is emitted to stdout with us :)
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LC 9 and Memory

[Stephen MacLean via use-livecode]

Yes, it’s on MacOS 10.12.6. No, this is in use… and cause my open apps, 
including LC,  to be “paused” saying that I had run out of memory.

I have 32GB of real RAM and a 4TB SSD that the OS sits on, with half of that 
free. The swap file had grown to almost 30GB in size, with most of it used., 
which is probably why I paused everything… 

> On Aug 13, 2018, at 1:47 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is this on a Mac? I know that for Macs, memory can be "in use" by an app, but 
> the app will release it on request. "wired" memory is that which an app has 
> allocated and will not release. Right now I have 11+ of 16 gigs of memory in 
> use, but only 2.32 of it is "wired". If you look at the Activity Monitor, the 
> indicator for Memory Pressure is really the indication of available 
> resources. 
> 
> Windows these days probably uses a similar way of managing memory. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 10:42 , Stephen MacLean via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I’m running into an issue where LC 9.0.1 RC1 Business is running a process 
>> and is gobbling up memory and then not releasing it until I quit LC. Like 
>> 22GB of memory!
>> 
>> Let me describe what I’m doing: I’m getting a query back from a MYSQL DB 
>> that contains 32k records, all text. Using revQueryDatabase() to put the 
>> data into a record set and the move cursor to go through each record in a 
>> repeat loop.
>> 
>> During the loop, I’m calling multiple functions that use a variety of all 
>> the goodies LC has: tsNet directly to get some data and PUT and POST URL 
>> were they work fine (For some reason, they don’t work on some URL’s, but 
>> tsNet does). Processing that data and saving it back to the DB into a 
>> different table. While doing this I’m putting some text into a logging 
>> field, moving a progress bar and updating a counter field to show what 
>> record it’s on . I’m also running a timer to show the elapsed time.
>> 
>> When done I save the log fld to a text file, then clear it. I also close the 
>> record set.
>> 
>> The memory used for LC always goes up, but never goes down unless I quit.
>> 
>> What am I missing? LC does it’s own GC and memory management, but in this 
>> case, I don’t see it.
>> 
>> Anyone experience this before? Any tips for  controlling it?
>> 
>> TIA,
>> 
>> Steve MacLean
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LC 9 and Memory

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2018-08-13 19:42, Stephen MacLean via use-livecode wrote:

Anyone experience this before? Any tips for  controlling it?


Well it sounds like you are doing a fair bit there so its really hard to 
say whether or not there is a memory leak.


The first thing to do is to find out whether that is actually 22Gb in 
use, or just an 'illusion'.


Leave you application running so that you can observe the gradually 
increase of memory. Then determine its PID (should be visible in 
Activity Monitor) then do from Terminal:


  heap 

And share the report which is emitted to stdout with us :)

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: LC 9 and Memory

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Is this on a Mac? I know that for Macs, memory can be "in use" by an app, but 
the app will release it on request. "wired" memory is that which an app has 
allocated and will not release. Right now I have 11+ of 16 gigs of memory in 
use, but only 2.32 of it is "wired". If you look at the Activity Monitor, the 
indicator for Memory Pressure is really the indication of available resources. 

Windows these days probably uses a similar way of managing memory. 

Bob S


> On Aug 13, 2018, at 10:42 , Stephen MacLean via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I’m running into an issue where LC 9.0.1 RC1 Business is running a process 
> and is gobbling up memory and then not releasing it until I quit LC. Like 
> 22GB of memory!
> 
> Let me describe what I’m doing: I’m getting a query back from a MYSQL DB that 
> contains 32k records, all text. Using revQueryDatabase() to put the data into 
> a record set and the move cursor to go through each record in a repeat loop.
> 
> During the loop, I’m calling multiple functions that use a variety of all the 
> goodies LC has: tsNet directly to get some data and PUT and POST URL were 
> they work fine (For some reason, they don’t work on some URL’s, but tsNet 
> does). Processing that data and saving it back to the DB into a different 
> table. While doing this I’m putting some text into a logging field, moving a 
> progress bar and updating a counter field to show what record it’s on . I’m 
> also running a timer to show the elapsed time.
> 
> When done I save the log fld to a text file, then clear it. I also close the 
> record set.
> 
> The memory used for LC always goes up, but never goes down unless I quit.
> 
> What am I missing? LC does it’s own GC and memory management, but in this 
> case, I don’t see it.
> 
> Anyone experience this before? Any tips for  controlling it?
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Steve MacLean

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

LC 9 and Memory

[Stephen MacLean via use-livecode]

Hi All,

I’m running into an issue where LC 9.0.1 RC1 Business is running a process and 
is gobbling up memory and then not releasing it until I quit LC. Like 22GB of 
memory!

Let me describe what I’m doing: I’m getting a query back from a MYSQL DB that 
contains 32k records, all text. Using revQueryDatabase() to put the data into a 
record set and the move cursor to go through each record in a repeat loop.

During the loop, I’m calling multiple functions that use a variety of all the 
goodies LC has: tsNet directly to get some data and PUT and POST URL were they 
work fine (For some reason, they don’t work on some URL’s, but tsNet does). 
Processing that data and saving it back to the DB into a different table. While 
doing this I’m putting some text into a logging field, moving a progress bar 
and updating a counter field to show what record it’s on . I’m also running a 
timer to show the elapsed time.

When done I save the log fld to a text file, then clear it. I also close the 
record set.

The memory used for LC always goes up, but never goes down unless I quit.

What am I missing? LC does it’s own GC and memory management, but in this case, 
I don’t see it.

Anyone experience this before? Any tips for  controlling it?

TIA,

Steve MacLean



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2018-08-13 18:13, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

Nope. Not wanting to get into licensing wars here (the 'silly
licensing' thing was not meant to be a poke at LC), but the stacks I
sell have an initial low purchase price but no 'license' involved. A
registration code is required to download (always free) updates as
they appear, but there's no license check and no subscription and no
locked code.


I've no intention of starting a licensing war and I'm not, but I think I 
do have to make an important point so as to not mislead others who are 
also looking to sell the software they produce (of which there are 
probably a fair few on this list - since this is a development tool 
mailing list!).


The problem is that I have no idea what you mean by 'no license'. Do you 
mean:


  (1) No-one is allowed to use it - you've not specified any terms of 
conveyance or use - so does that mean there are none?


  (2) You mean that it is public domain (which is the closest thing to 
'no license' I believe) - you are just charging me $40 per tool as the 
download fee for the 'full' version.


  (3) You are relying on various laws and such which the purchaser is 
assumed to understand in order to know what they are allowed to do with 
what they have paid for?


If (1) is the case - then the tools very existence seems to be a kind of 
a pointless exercise.


If (2) is the case, then great - they both might make a useful addition 
to the non-GPL editions of LiveCode (as there is 'no license' they are 
not compatible with the GPL) - I'll pay $80, put them in the non-GPL 
editions and ensure everyone who uses those editions has complete and 
free access to them ;o).


If (3) is the case, then, err - that's way too non-specific for me - I 
think I'll just take a pass.


[ By the way, I should point out (although I'd hope this would be 
obvious!) that I won't *actually* be doing (2) - the lack of any 
specific details of the terms under which you are conveying your 
software means it is way to risky for me to even think about using your 
tools in any manner whatsoever! Also, I have far too much respect for 
anyone who is willing to release and support software regardless of 
whether they may or may not be somewhat light on the legalese side of 
things - so I ain't gonna go stealing anything! ]


My point here is, simply, this - software licenses might well be verbose 
at times, annoying and you may well think that they are just standing in 
our way to do what we want to do. However, they are not, they absolutely 
are not. They are very important - they tell anyone who receives the 
software work you have created what their rights, responsibilities and 
redress (as a receiver of them) is with regard the use of what you have 
granted them access to.


They don't have to be complex, nor full of legalese. However anybody who 
is vending software and failing to take the time and effort to set out 
in clear language what terms they intend their software to be used under 
either if bought, or just downloaded is doing both themselves a 
disservice, as well as their potential users.


Also, I should also point out that Python does come with a software 
license. Indeed the PSF felt it necessary to create their own 
GPL-compatible one. Interestingly there is one clause in it which 
certainly makes it stronger than MIT:


3. In the event Licensee prepares a derivative work that is based on or
   incorporates Python 3.7.0 or any part thereof, and wants to make the
   derivative work available to others as provided herein, then Licensee 
hereby
   agrees to include in any such work a brief summary of the changes 
made to Python

   3.7.0.

Indeed, parts of the python source base are actually covered by a litany 
of other licenses too (just as LiveCode's is GPL + a number of others) 
as is more than usual in large open-source projects.


So, anyway, Mark Wieder is free to continue to do as he sees fit - 
however, I'd strongly recommend anyone else thinking about selling or 
distributing software is not quite so laissez-faire with the (what can 
be extremely simple) legal side. You may not agree with software 
licensing or may think you are above, on top, aside or nowhere related 
to it; but if you wish to interact with others in the modern world of 
software, and particularly with those who are have to do due-diligence 
on such matters, you'd be wise to not ignore it and claim 'no license'.



And as you well know, I give away lots of foss and public domain code.
:P yourself 


What do you know - so do we (on a far greater scale, I'd perhaps 
venture) :oP


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Ouch . . .

I don't know why this has to degenerate into a sort of flame war about 
whether one has to pay for things

or not.

[Within the next few weeks I will have to pay LiveCode to relicence my 
Indy version of LiveCode - I am well aware
of why I am going to do this; and, which is probably the most important 
point, I don't resent that.]


If I had to pay something for Python I would: NOT because I like Python; 
because, frankly I don't [ why go backwards
to the sort of programming language I last had to work with in 1986? ], 
but because I shall be making money out of teaching Python.


"silly licensing"

My Devawriter Pro and my Balawriter both feature "silly licensing" 
because, odd as it may seem, I did not make those

programs for the love of it.

I started this, not to let it wander off onto pay/free or whatever, but 
to ask advice re setting up Python on Linux boxes

in my school

Richmond.

On 13/8/2018 6:57 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

On 2018-08-13 17:34, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 08/13/2018 02:21 AM, Peter W A Wood via use-livecode wrote:

Like it or not (and mainly NOT), I have to offer Python to kids 
this fall . . .


Frankly, Python, by using this module system seems to defeat itself 
to a certain extent: or, maybe I'm just

spoilt by LiveCode.


We all are . But python has the best scientific libraries around
(www.scipy.org). And everything python is free and open source - no
silly licensing to worry about.


Last time I checked you sold at least two products which required a 
license...


If you think licensing is silly, then why do you sell licensed 
software and not just give it away for free and open source as 'public 
domain'? :P


Warmest Regards,

Mark.



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: [OT] Snakey Problem

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Dunno about that . . .

Let us suppose, for the moment at least, that the story of the Garden of 
Eden,

in the Bible, while not being literally true, is
a powerful and cogent psychological lesson . . .

A rather beastly, paternalistic, sexist, bullying demi-urgos called 
Ialdabaoth gets
too big for his boots and sets up a sort of petting-zoo and populates it 
with lots of jazzy
animals and plants, among them 2 rather peculiar bald apes who have 
rather well-developed, if naive, minds.


Now, old Ialdabaoth, being a right "case", pops 2 trees bung in the 
middle of the zoo, and they have
just the tastiest and most interesting fruit you can imagine on them. In 
addition to this the fruit of
these 2 trees have remarkable powers: the fruit of the first one gives 
you an instant doctorate in
just about everything you can imagine, and the second one solves all 
your medical problems to

such an extent that you'll live forever.

The Ialdabaoth says to the 2 bald apes, "No, and not under any 
circumstances!"


---

Try this experiment: go out and buy a bag of jelly sweeties, put its 
contents in a bowl right in the
middle of the kitchen table and tell your 
children/grandchildren/nephews/nieces/ other stray kids,

"Those are mine and I will turn you into pumpkins if you touch them."

Last time I tried that those sweets lasted about 20 minutes.
--

Now the Lord and Master of the Universe looks down at what yon 
Ialdabaoth is up to and feels
an element of disquiet: not least because Ialdabaoth is misrepresenting 
things in a major way to the 2 bald apes.


So the Lord and Master of the Universe pops together a very odd creature 
indeed: no arms, no wings and no legs: a snake.


And sends that snake into the petting-zoo to point out what a "pill" 
Ialdabaoth is being.

---

The snake does its work, as instructed, at which point "Old Sweaty 
Socks", Ialdabaoth, who, among other
character defects, suffers from a serious temper problem, chucks the 
bald apes out of the zoo.


At which point the bald apes work a few basic things out, and one of 
them is that, despite the petting-zoo
being a sort of non-stop cafeteria and club-Med: they are actually 
better off outiside where they can use their
creativity, brains and so forth to create the sort of world they want 
rather than the one that Ialdabaoth

had imposed on them.


The above, by the way, is my retelling of the standard Christian Gnostic 
Myth of Origins. I am retelling it not
in any attempt to insult or upset anyone, but as at least one way of 
understanding why snakes, culturally,

have been viewed with mixed feelings.

Historically and mythologically snakes have been viewed ambivalently; 
both as threats and as

the bearers of wisdom and healing (c.f. the wand of Aesclepius).
---

There is a large body of evidence to support the idea that the early 
Jewish Temple on mount Moriah, in Jerusalem contained
snake idols, as did the early Jewish (Samaritan) Temple on mount 
Gerizim. At the Jewish Temple at the first cataract on
the Nile in Egypt snakes were worshiped along with 'Ashera': poles 
representing the brides of Yahweh.


Snake worship has been found in South America and runs right through 
Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism (if you really

want to consider those 3 religious traditions as separate from each other).

Nag Pachami is a Hindu festival: possibly the only religious tradition 
that has retained that to the present day.


Richmond.

On 13/8/2018 6:23 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Why do snakes get their own day?? They are the source of all our problems!

Bob S



On Aug 13, 2018, at 07:57 , Devin Asay via use-livecode 
 wrote:

This question is very timely as Wednesday is Nag Panchami: the day of snakes!

Richmond.


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: How to filter a list with a variable anywhere in a line

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

In that book I wrote there is a chapter on making a web scraper, something that 
could pull images and other media from a web page. I soon found all the 
articles talking about not using regex with HTML, so I used a mixture of 
techniques instead. Here’s the first part I wrote about it:

“A common approach when extracting a known pattern of text is to use regular 
expressions, often referred to as regex or regexp. At its simplest it's easy to 
understand, but it can get quite complex. Read the Wikipedia article if you 
want to understand it in depth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression

Another useful source of information is this Packt article on regular 
expressions:

http://www.packtpub.com/article/regular-expressions-python-26-text-processing

One problem though is that using regexp to parse HTML content is frowned upon. 
There are scores of articles online telling you outright not to parse HTML with 
regexp! Here's one pithy example:

http://boingboing.net/2011/11/24/why-you-shouldnt-parse-html.html

Now, parsing HTML source is exactly what we want to do here, and one solution 
to the problem is to mix and match, using LiveCode's other text matching and 
filtering abilities to do most of the work. Although it's not exactly regexp, 
LiveCode can use regular expressions in some of its matching and filtering 
functions, and they are somewhat easier to understand than full-blown regexp. 
So, let's begin by using those …”

A few pages later I do use some regex to pull text from the page:

function getText pPageSource
   put 
replaceText(pPageSource,"(?:<(?Pscript|style)[\s\S]*?)|(?:)|(?:<[\s\S]*?>)","")
 into pPageSource
   replace lf with "" in pPageSource”
   replace tab with " " in pPageSource
   return pPageSource
end getText
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: How to filter a list with a variable anywhere in a line

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: [OT] Snakey Problem

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

That sounds marvellous, in theory, but for legal reasons the computers
in my school do not have internet access.

Richmond.

On 13/8/2018 5:57 pm, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote:

Richmond,

One of my colleagues who teaches Python uses a cloud-based service called 
PythonAnywhere. The basic plan is free for anyone to use. You access it through 
a web browser. You may find it useful.

Host, run, and code Python in the cloud: 
PythonAnywhere

I have just tapped the extent of my Python system knowledge. ;)

Devin


On Aug 13, 2018, at 2:23 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Like it or not (and mainly NOT), I have to offer Python to kids this fall . . .

This is a b*gger for several reasons:

1. I love LiveCode.

2. To use Python to any effect apart from rather goofy manipulations with 
numbers and text an install
requires 'modules' which are usually installed using a daft command-line system 
using something call
'PIP' [ "Permanently Injurious Python" perhaps? ] . . . which I have signally 
failed to get to work on either
Macintosh or Linux.

I wonder of anyone knows of a way to install Python 3 on Linux with the main GUI modules 
"bound in":
i.e. a one-stop install.

Frankly, Python, by using this module system seems to defeat itself to a 
certain extent: or, maybe I'm just
spoilt by LiveCode.

This question is very timely as Wednesday is Nag Panchami: the day of snakes!

Richmond.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: How to filter a list with a variable anywhere in a line

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

That was it! LOL!

Bob S


> On Aug 13, 2018, at 09:28 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I You can't parse html with regex:
> 
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags#
> 
> See the top accepted answer.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On August 13, 2018 11:12:53 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Someone did a great article on using regex to parse csv files or some such 
>> thing, and was making the case why it couldn't be done, and in the middle of 
>> attempting to explain it, the author loses his mind. It was pretty funny.
>> 
>> Bob S


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: How to filter a list with a variable anywhere in a line

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

I You can't parse html with regex:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags#

See the top accepted answer.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 13, 2018 11:12:53 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Someone did a great article on using regex to parse csv files or some such 
thing, and was making the case why it couldn't be done, and in the middle 
of attempting to explain it, the author loses his mind. It was pretty funny.


Bob S


On Aug 13, 2018, at 09:01 , Keith Clarke via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Indeed, especially when anything regexy should be viewed from a safe 
distance - ideally from behind the couch …in a tin-foil hat!


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
subscription preferences:

http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: How to filter a list with a variable anywhere in a line

[Keith Clarke via use-livecode]

…ad insanem regexum - maybe his tin-foil hat slipped off.

Keith 

> On 13 Aug 2018, at 17:11, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Someone did a great article on using regex to parse csv files or some such 
> thing, and was making the case why it couldn't be done, and in the middle of 
> attempting to explain it, the author loses his mind. It was pretty funny. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 09:01 , Keith Clarke via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Indeed, especially when anything regexy should be viewed from a safe 
>> distance - ideally from behind the couch …in a tin-foil hat!
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/13/2018 08:57 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

Last time I checked you sold at least two products which required a 
license...


If you think licensing is silly, then why do you sell licensed software 
and not just give it away for free and open source as 'public domain'? :P


Nope. Not wanting to get into licensing wars here (the 'silly licensing' 
thing was not meant to be a poke at LC), but the stacks I sell have an 
initial low purchase price but no 'license' involved. A registration 
code is required to download (always free) updates as they appear, but 
there's no license check and no subscription and no locked code.


And as you well know, I give away lots of foss and public domain code.
:P yourself 

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: How to filter a list with a variable anywhere in a line

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Someone did a great article on using regex to parse csv files or some such 
thing, and was making the case why it couldn't be done, and in the middle of 
attempting to explain it, the author loses his mind. It was pretty funny. 

Bob S


> On Aug 13, 2018, at 09:01 , Keith Clarke via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Indeed, especially when anything regexy should be viewed from a safe distance 
> - ideally from behind the couch …in a tin-foil hat!

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: How to filter a list with a variable anywhere in a line

[Keith Clarke via use-livecode]

Indeed, especially when anything regexy should be viewed from a safe distance - 
ideally from behind the couch …in a tin-foil hat!

> On 13 Aug 2018, at 16:54, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 08/13/2018 08:51 AM, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
>> Thanks Mark - that fixed it (as in, the simpler approach of dropping the 
>> brackets).
>> Being ‘regex-phobic', I hadn’t picked up the subtle difference between 
>> wildcards and ‘formal’ regex in the doc examples. ;-)
> 
> Yeah, it's pretty subtle since the bare filter syntax looks quite regexy all 
> by itself.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2018-08-13 17:34, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 08/13/2018 02:21 AM, Peter W A Wood via use-livecode wrote:

Like it or not (and mainly NOT), I have to offer Python to kids this 
fall . . .


Frankly, Python, by using this module system seems to defeat itself 
to a certain extent: or, maybe I'm just

spoilt by LiveCode.


We all are . But python has the best scientific libraries around
(www.scipy.org). And everything python is free and open source - no
silly licensing to worry about.


Last time I checked you sold at least two products which required a 
license...


If you think licensing is silly, then why do you sell licensed software 
and not just give it away for free and open source as 'public domain'? 
:P


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: How to filter a list with a variable anywhere in a line

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/13/2018 08:51 AM, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:

Thanks Mark - that fixed it (as in, the simpler approach of dropping the 
brackets).

Being ‘regex-phobic', I hadn’t picked up the subtle difference between 
wildcards and ‘formal’ regex in the doc examples. ;-)


Yeah, it's pretty subtle since the bare filter syntax looks quite regexy 
all by itself.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/13/2018 08:34 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:


coexist well. I have pip 9.0.1 and pip3 1.5.4 installed.


(talking to myself...) My bad - I was looking at the wrong screen. I 
actually have pip 18.0 installed.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: How to filter a list with a variable anywhere in a line

[Keith Clarke via use-livecode]

Thanks Mark - that fixed it (as in, the simpler approach of dropping the 
brackets). 

Being ‘regex-phobic', I hadn’t picked up the subtle difference between 
wildcards and ‘formal’ regex in the doc examples. ;-)

Thanks & regards,

Keith

> On 13 Aug 2018, at 16:38, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 08/13/2018 08:32 AM, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
>> Folks,
>> I’m trying to filter a list of comma-delimited values to include only the 
>> lines that contain a string - somewhere in any of the items.
>> What’s wrong with this syntax - it’s currently returning no lines when I can 
>> see tString in the second line of the variable?
>> filter lines of tList with "*[" & tString & "]*"
>> I’m guessing my concatenation fails to create good regex?
> 
> If you really want regex then you have to specify that explictly:
> 
> filter lines of tList with regex pattern "*[" & tString & "]*"
> 
> but my guess is what you want is just
> 
> filter lines of tList with "*" & tString & "*"
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Android compass question

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/13/2018 07:55 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Maybe you don't know what you want most in this world. (Sorry I had to.)




--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: How to filter a list with a variable anywhere in a line

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/13/2018 08:32 AM, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:

Folks,
I’m trying to filter a list of comma-delimited values to include only the lines 
that contain a string - somewhere in any of the items.

What’s wrong with this syntax - it’s currently returning no lines when I can 
see tString in the second line of the variable?

filter lines of tList with "*[" & tString & "]*"


I’m guessing my concatenation fails to create good regex?


If you really want regex then you have to specify that explictly:

filter lines of tList with regex pattern "*[" & tString & "]*"

but my guess is what you want is just

filter lines of tList with "*" & tString & "*"

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 08/13/2018 02:21 AM, Peter W A Wood via use-livecode wrote:


Like it or not (and mainly NOT), I have to offer Python to kids this fall . . .



Frankly, Python, by using this module system seems to defeat itself to a 
certain extent: or, maybe I'm just
spoilt by LiveCode.


We all are . But python has the best scientific libraries around 
(www.scipy.org). And everything python is free and open source - no 
silly licensing to worry about.


Peter's suggestion of Mu looks good.
Linux already comes with python installed. At a command line, type 
"python --version" and see what happens (then type "python3 --version" 
likewise). Do you need version 3? You've probably already got python 2.7 
installed by default. But since mu contains python3 in its package that 
may answer your question.


Pip is essential for python. Python is a programming language, not an 
environment of itself. So you'll want an IDE (mu would fit the bill) and 
modules (read libraries, plugins, ...) If your python version is 2.7.9 
or greater (or python 3.4 or greater) then you've already got pip.


If not, the apt-get should allow you to install pip.
sudo apt-get install python-pip
or
sudo apt-get install python3-pip
Notice that there are two possible versions of pip, depending on which 
version of python you want to run - if you're using python 2 then you 
can just invoke pip. If you're using python 3 then you'll run pip3. They 
coexist well. I have pip 9.0.1 and pip3 1.5.4 installed.


...and lastly I do want to point out that you may find yourself liking 
some things about python. There are some things that are awkward or hard 
to accomplish in LiveCode that are simple in python, and you can mix the 
two easily and let each do what it does best.


YMMV.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

How to filter a list with a variable anywhere in a line

[Keith Clarke via use-livecode]

Folks,
I’m trying to filter a list of comma-delimited values to include only the lines 
that contain a string - somewhere in any of the items.

What’s wrong with this syntax - it’s currently returning no lines when I can 
see tString in the second line of the variable?

filter lines of tList with "*[" & tString & "]*"


I’m guessing my concatenation fails to create good regex?

TIA
Keith
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: [OT] Snakey Problem

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Why do snakes get their own day?? They are the source of all our problems! 

Bob S


> On Aug 13, 2018, at 07:57 , Devin Asay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> This question is very timely as Wednesday is Nag Panchami: the day of snakes!
> 
> Richmond.


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: [OT] Snakey Problem

[Devin Asay via use-livecode]

Richmond,

One of my colleagues who teaches Python uses a cloud-based service called 
PythonAnywhere. The basic plan is free for anyone to use. You access it through 
a web browser. You may find it useful.

Host, run, and code Python in the cloud: 
PythonAnywhere

I have just tapped the extent of my Python system knowledge. ;)

Devin


On Aug 13, 2018, at 2:23 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Like it or not (and mainly NOT), I have to offer Python to kids this fall . . .

This is a b*gger for several reasons:

1. I love LiveCode.

2. To use Python to any effect apart from rather goofy manipulations with 
numbers and text an install
requires 'modules' which are usually installed using a daft command-line system 
using something call
'PIP' [ "Permanently Injurious Python" perhaps? ] . . . which I have signally 
failed to get to work on either
Macintosh or Linux.

I wonder of anyone knows of a way to install Python 3 on Linux with the main 
GUI modules "bound in":
i.e. a one-stop install.

Frankly, Python, by using this module system seems to defeat itself to a 
certain extent: or, maybe I'm just
spoilt by LiveCode.

This question is very timely as Wednesday is Nag Panchami: the day of snakes!

Richmond.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University

___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Resetting waitDepth

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Whut? I may have been bitten by these bugs! 

Bob S


> On Aug 11, 2018, at 14:19 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm pretty sure exit to top should do in most cases - however I think there 
> might be a few implicit in-engine/external wait used which ignore it (which 
> probably should be considered bugs).
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Android compass question

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Maybe you don't know what you want most in this world. (Sorry I had to.) Might 
be a calibration issue, but I don't know how to calibrate the compass on an 
android. 

Bob S


> On Aug 11, 2018, at 13:34 , Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a new galaxy phone. When I read the mobile compass, both magnetic 
> heading and true heading constantly change - even if the phone is laying down 
> still. It changes up and down randomly by 5 degrees or so. Does anyone know 
> if this is a problem with LC or with galaxy phones? My iPhone does not do 
> this.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Repeat for each element failing

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

No I mean when stating repeat for each element in myArray, can each element be 
arrays, but I know now that it can. I somehow via a code bug had an element 
that was empty. Since there was no key, repeat for each element choked. 

Bob S


> On Aug 10, 2018, at 19:11 , dunbarxx via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> My error. I meant:
> 
> Are you speaking of the "warm" in myFavoriteColors["warm"]["red"] 
> 
> Craig


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Anyone using Older LC versions?

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

I still use 6.7.11 regularly for the same reason as Paul. (9 for all new work.)

Ben

On 12/08/2018 13:40, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

We still have a few pre-Unicode stacks (all under LC 6.7.11). It is just
taking a lot of time (that we don't have) to get them all migrated and
tested to LC9+

I know you know this already, but I thought I would reply for any one
else interested in this informal poll


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re [OT] Snakey Problem

[Peter W A Wood via use-livecode]

Richmond

I am no Python expert having only got over Pythonaphobia, which I contracted 
last century, in the last few months.

The standard Python library, which is included in the distribution, includes 
the TKinter GUI library. When Python starts up, it doesn’t load many of the 
standard libraries automatically. That’s why you need the imports before you 
use them. (It imports them from the standard library).

Here is the smallest hello Richmond program that I could find:

import tkinter as tk

gui = tk.Tk()
w = tk.Label(gui, text="Hello, Richmond!")
w.pack()
w.mainloop()

 
It should run in any standard Python3 distribution.

You might want to think about using the new Mu Editor which is aimed at 
beginners. It includes it’s own version of Python3 (3.6 in the current 
release). It’s website is https://codewith.mu  There’s an 
introduction to it at https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/mu-python-ide/ 


Hope this helps

Peter

> On 13 Aug 2018, at 16:23, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> Like it or not (and mainly NOT), I have to offer Python to kids this fall . . 
> .
> 
> This is a b*gger for several reasons:
> 
> 1. I love LiveCode.
> 
> 2. To use Python to any effect apart from rather goofy manipulations with 
> numbers and text an install
> requires 'modules' which are usually installed using a daft command-line 
> system using something call
> 'PIP' [ "Permanently Injurious Python" perhaps? ] . . . which I have signally 
> failed to get to work on either
> Macintosh or Linux.
> 
> I wonder of anyone knows of a way to install Python 3 on Linux with the main 
> GUI modules "bound in":
> i.e. a one-stop install.
> 
> Frankly, Python, by using this module system seems to defeat itself to a 
> certain extent: or, maybe I'm just
> spoilt by LiveCode.
> 
> This question is very timely as Wednesday is Nag Panchami: the day of snakes!
> 
> Richmond.
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Re: Is anyone using tsNet external with LCserver?

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

For those who are interested.

HostM upgraded their systems this weekend. After this upgrade i am able to use 
my custom LC Server 9 Business installation (.htaccess method) with tsNET.
So it seems, tsNET is needing more current libraries than LC 9 Server itself.

Regards,

Matthias



> Am 20.06.2018 um 19:11 schrieb Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> For those who are interested.
> 
> I´ve sent a pro support request for my problem to get tsNet working with 
> Livecode Server. It seems its not so easy to get it working. Support team has 
> now created a bug report for the  problem. bug 21377 
>  >
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
>> Am 28.05.2018 um 14:01 schrieb Ralf Bitter via use-livecode 
>> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> 
>> > >>:
>> 
>> Hi Panos,
>> 
>> I know that tsNetVersion() yielding an error is fixed.
>> 
>> But does this really mean that all  tsNet Business
>> features are enabled on LC server (business)?
>> 
>> Just did tests (got my files from the shelf) using
>> as an example asynchronous requests, which failed.
>> Synchronous flavours worked as expected.
>> 
>> 
>> Ralf
>> 
>> 
>>> On 28. May 2018, at 11:28, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode 
>>> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> 
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *And don't expect to get access to the extended feature setof tsNet
>>> Business on LC server. Seems there is no way to activatea business license
>>> for tsNet on server, don’t think this has changed.*
>>> 
>>> This is no longer the case, this bug has been fixed since LC 8.1.8 RC-1:
>>> 
>>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19793 
>>>  
>>> >> > 
>>> >>  
>>> >> >>
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Panos
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com  
>> >
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode 
>> 
> 
> Matthias Rebbe
> Tel +49 5741 31
> ‌https://matthiasrebbe.eu  
> >‌
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode 
> 
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

[OT] Snakey Problem

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Like it or not (and mainly NOT), I have to offer Python to kids this 
fall . . .


This is a b*gger for several reasons:

1. I love LiveCode.

2. To use Python to any effect apart from rather goofy manipulations 
with numbers and text an install
requires 'modules' which are usually installed using a daft command-line 
system using something call
'PIP' [ "Permanently Injurious Python" perhaps? ] . . . which I have 
signally failed to get to work on either

Macintosh or Linux.

I wonder of anyone knows of a way to install Python 3 on Linux with the 
main GUI modules "bound in":

i.e. a one-stop install.

Frankly, Python, by using this module system seems to defeat itself to a 
certain extent: or, maybe I'm just

spoilt by LiveCode.

This question is very timely as Wednesday is Nag Panchami: the day of 
snakes!


Richmond.
___
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode