Re: revNavigator - Cloning a card - am i doing something wrong?

2018-08-21 Thread Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 8:58 AM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Geoff,
> thanks for the quick update.
>
> There´s another thing i noticed:
>
> I moved the opened revNavigator stack on the right side of the LC Menu
> below the Mac OS X menu bar.
> When i click the arrow icon to collaps the revNavigator stack, then it is
> moved outside of the screen.
>
> I have to change  the y-coordinate from 29  to 155 to get it displayed
> again.
>
> Regards,
> Matthias
>
> I'm not sure I understand -- if the y-coordinate of Navigator is 29, then
it should still be on-screen? I tried several ways to replicate this, and
so far, no luck. Do you have a multiple-monitor setup?

gc
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Re: revNavigator - Cloning a card - am i doing something wrong?

2018-08-21 Thread Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 7:50 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> SO THAT'S how you do it! And do you mean it clones to the topstack?
> Usually you would clone a card from the message box, and of course it
> cannot clone to that!
>
> Bob S
>

I'm not 100% sure whether this a bug or not -- I filed Bug 21509
 to report it. Cloning
an object makes a duplicate in the same container as the original. Cloning
a card makes a duplicate in the stack where the script is running. I don't
know if the message box is somehow different than Navigator to prevent
this, or if there is code to prevent it happening in the message box like I
have now put in Navigator. We'll see what the response is.

gc
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Re: [ANN] DGH 2.5.1 is released

2018-08-21 Thread Tom Glod via use-livecode
Great plugin  i would say its a must for any developer using DGs 
otherwise you are doing more work than you need to.

except of course for community users.

great job, indeed its a great helper.

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 4:44 PM, zryip theSlug via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear List Members,
>
>
> DGH 2.5.1 is now available.
>
> New:
> - Formulae Calculation: the installed script is now containing a new
> handler: DGH_Formulae_RefreshAll. This handler is allowing to refresh the
> calculation inside the datagrid. Call this function after having populated
> an empty datagrid to have all the calculations done automatically.
>
> Changes:
> - Custom header: Only the special header controls can be added inside the
> header template. This means the classical control, widgets or custom
> controls are now disabled to avoid potential problems in building a custom
> header from scratch.
> - Custom header: The script installed with a custom header has changed to
> remove a line decreasing performances with datagrid containing more than 16
> columns
> - The new functionalty allowing to add several columns at a time has been
> rethought to increase perfomances when more than 20 columns are added at a
> time.
> - The way the columns are hidden (option "always hide invisible columns"
> checked or not) has been rethought to increase performances when a lot of
> columns are displayed inside the column builder's preview.
> - Preferences: the unicode labels has been removed from the preferences and
> is considered to turn to off by default, due to unicode is now native
> inside LC since several versions. This option could be the cause of some
> label issues when turned to on and was only existing for compatibility with
> old LC versions. It is now in no interest with LC 8.x and 9.x
>
> Fixed bugs:
> - DGH was very slow loading datagrids table containing more than 16
> columns.
> - "Spreadsheet" behavior: when navigating through the cells and inputing
> new values, then leaving the cell, the values were not stored inside the
> datagrid.
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> --
> Zryip TheSlug
> http://www.aslugontheroad.com
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Surprise...

2018-08-21 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Curry Kenworthy wrote:

> In case I was unclear, I just meant that the engine still can and
> should be optimized! As time and budget allows of course, but
> certainly doable.

You know I'm fairly obsessive about performance.

Does anyone here have benchmarks comparing LC to Python, JavaScript, 
Lua, and/or other popular scripting languages?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Surprise...

2018-08-21 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
The one optimization that would really help in this particular torture test
would be native lists.  Then you go from a hash lookup to an index lookup.
I know it will be faster than array, but not sure where it would switch
over and be faster than item.

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> In case I was unclear, I just meant that the engine still can and should
> be optimized! As time and budget allows of course, but certainly doable. I
> doubt it's only the Unicode and nothing else, but either way it doesn't
> rule out future speed gains. Unicode shouldn't need to slow down everything
> from math to non-text loops (and I remember working on some tests to keep
> the text out of these, but haven't tried that with 9 yet) nor would it
> remove all opportunities for innovation and simplification that lead to
> faster execution.
>
> Most code can be improved, that's a safe bet with few exceptions, and
> speed is an improvement that would do LC a lot of good. Not just tiny
> gains; I do think it's possible and desirable for a Unicode LC engine to
> beat LC 6 in most areas. If I'm alone in that desire, well, color me
> surprised! That's my nature. I may be slow at times but I like my code
> fast. I love optimization and there are some pretty interesting methods to
> achieve it. Very optimized scripts on a very optimized engine is a scenario
> very much to my liking. Wouldn't be a bad selling point either. I'll shut
> up now and dive back in my coding hole where I belong. Addon updates and
> client updates in the works. :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
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Re: Surprise...

2018-08-21 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



In case I was unclear, I just meant that the engine still can and should 
be optimized! As time and budget allows of course, but certainly doable. 
I doubt it's only the Unicode and nothing else, but either way it 
doesn't rule out future speed gains. Unicode shouldn't need to slow down 
everything from math to non-text loops (and I remember working on some 
tests to keep the text out of these, but haven't tried that with 9 yet) 
nor would it remove all opportunities for innovation and simplification 
that lead to faster execution.


Most code can be improved, that's a safe bet with few exceptions, and 
speed is an improvement that would do LC a lot of good. Not just tiny 
gains; I do think it's possible and desirable for a Unicode LC engine to 
beat LC 6 in most areas. If I'm alone in that desire, well, color me 
surprised! That's my nature. I may be slow at times but I like my code 
fast. I love optimization and there are some pretty interesting methods 
to achieve it. Very optimized scripts on a very optimized engine is a 
scenario very much to my liking. Wouldn't be a bad selling point either. 
I'll shut up now and dive back in my coding hole where I belong. Addon 
updates and client updates in the works. :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Brian Milby wrote:

> Richard wrote:
>> ...another useful detail when placing things within groups under
>> most circumstances is to set the lockLoc of the group and everything
>> within it.  So much becomes so simple that way, and without it the
>> automatic accommodate of interior objects within a group can
>> sometimes be mystifying.  All that becomes confidently predictable
>> with lockLoc.
>
> @Richard, could you elaborate on the lockLoc?  I assume you are
> talking about the part where the group will not resize based on
> control positions within and that if you set H/W of a control the
> topLeft remains the same along with images not resizing back to
> their source's size.  Did I miss anything?

By default groups are unlocked and resize to accommodate whatever's 
within them.  If you move something within the group, the group will 
adjust itself to what is more or less its formattedRect.


This is often useful if you're using the group as a general container, 
but starts to get squirrelly when you're moving stuff within the group 
from the group's own script and the rect of the group matters to your 
layout.


The sequence is:

- A group gets its resizeControl, where it moves its
  interior controls.

- Moving an interior control may alter the rect of the group
  to something different from what the card script intended.

- Depending on the placement of things, a change to the group's
  rect may also move other controls within it.

LockLoc locks things down so they only change according to what your 
script dictates.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
@Richard, could you elaborate on the lockLoc?  I assume you are talking
about the part where the group will not resize based on control positions
within and that if you set H/W of a control the topLeft remains the same
along with images not resizing back to their source's size.  Did I miss
anything?
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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Winner gets to eat the worm! 

Bob S


> On Aug 21, 2018, at 13:43 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
> > But yeah, maybe you and I could team up and do a one-on-one debate.
> > Someone could set up a rope ring and we could wear boxing gloves. :)
> 
> Given that we've never disagreed on how to solve a specific resizing problem, 
> I would imagine it would be the most boring debate ever.
> 
> Let's at least spice it up with tequila. If we make it into an interactive 
> drinking game with the audience we may have a winner. :)


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Re: Surprise...

2018-08-21 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
I am pretty sure it was the unicode.  Notice that 7 took a major hit, but
then dramatically improved in 8 and had another step in 9 (for the item).
Doesn't look like the array portion changed much after the rewrite (did
take a slight step back from 7 to 8, but improved with 9).

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 3:38 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> maybe when the new chunk types were added  it put some overhead on
> operations on other chunks? weird
>
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 4:27 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Wasn't it Unicode that slowed everything, especially string parsing down?
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > > On Aug 21, 2018, at 11:00 , Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Brian:
> > >
> > > > I expanded my test stack and ran it
> > > > on the versions I had available.
> > >
> > > Thanks for (among other things!) running these tests.
> > >
> > > It's useful to see the item vs array turning point.
> > >
> > > I also notice something else, if I read your result correctly: LC9
> beats
> > LC8 on these tests (that's a good sign!) but LC6 still dominates them
> all,
> > in this particular type of exercise that you've coded, on Mac. It was
> also
> > the winner in my previous tests on Windows.
> > >
> > > ("The Un...defeated... Defen...ding... Champion!")
> > >
> > > I hope to see LC9/10 further optimized. I love LC6, but you must
> > understand I'm always entirely rooting for the latest version and hoping
> > for it to wipe the floor with the others. When it wins, we all win.
> > >
> > > Plenty of methods and tricks to optimize LCS code, and the results may
> > vary between releases and platforms, but engine optimization really is
> > helpful. Its performance establishes the boundaries that we work within
> > while scripting. When I get some time I'll run a new round of tests too
> and
> > publish the results. Thanks again.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > >
> > > Curry K.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
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Re: Navigator 6.1 alpha1 is out

2018-08-21 Thread Mark Talluto via use-livecode
Hi Geoff,

6.1 alpha 2 = awesome!  You fixed the drag and drop bug. Would you post your 
PayPal so I can show some appreciation? 

Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 


> On Aug 20, 2018, at 3:46 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Phew -- this was a lot of work, as I basically had to (for about the ninth
> time!) completely re-write a portion of the drag-and-drop code, which is by
> far my least favorite part of Navigator.

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[ANN] DGH 2.5.1 is released

2018-08-21 Thread zryip theSlug via use-livecode
Dear List Members,


DGH 2.5.1 is now available.

New:
- Formulae Calculation: the installed script is now containing a new
handler: DGH_Formulae_RefreshAll. This handler is allowing to refresh the
calculation inside the datagrid. Call this function after having populated
an empty datagrid to have all the calculations done automatically.

Changes:
- Custom header: Only the special header controls can be added inside the
header template. This means the classical control, widgets or custom
controls are now disabled to avoid potential problems in building a custom
header from scratch.
- Custom header: The script installed with a custom header has changed to
remove a line decreasing performances with datagrid containing more than 16
columns
- The new functionalty allowing to add several columns at a time has been
rethought to increase perfomances when more than 20 columns are added at a
time.
- The way the columns are hidden (option "always hide invisible columns"
checked or not) has been rethought to increase performances when a lot of
columns are displayed inside the column builder's preview.
- Preferences: the unicode labels has been removed from the preferences and
is considered to turn to off by default, due to unicode is now native
inside LC since several versions. This option could be the cause of some
label issues when turned to on and was only existing for compatibility with
old LC versions. It is now in no interest with LC 8.x and 9.x

Fixed bugs:
- DGH was very slow loading datagrids table containing more than 16 columns.
- "Spreadsheet" behavior: when navigating through the cells and inputing
new values, then leaving the cell, the values were not stored inside the
datagrid.




Best Regards,

-- 
Zryip TheSlug
http://www.aslugontheroad.com
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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> But yeah, maybe you and I could team up and do a one-on-one debate.
> Someone could set up a rope ring and we could wear boxing gloves. :)

Given that we've never disagreed on how to solve a specific resizing 
problem, I would imagine it would be the most boring debate ever.


Let's at least spice it up with tequila. If we make it into an 
interactive drinking game with the audience we may have a winner. :)



> On 8/21/18 1:26 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> The stretch-or-gap solution FSM provides can be an excellent fit for
>> those
>
> That's where I think you're missing something. Those aren't the only
> options. Nobody uses stretch (not even Monument Valley) due to the
> distortion.

When stretched proportionately there is no distortion.  It's just larger.

Monument Valley stretches proportionately.


> But you aren't limited to seeing gaps, there are ways to avoid that.

The gaps need not be blank.

Monument Valley centers its content region within a generous decorative 
backdrop, so the unused portions of the screen are rendered as a 
continuation of the background art.


Proportionality avoids gaps where the ratio is constant.  Change the 
ratio, and the layout can either extend outside the screen or have a gap 
within it. I can't conceive of how it could do anything either than one 
or both of those.



> The result is closer to what you describe with manual resizing. No
> gaps, and use of the edges around the stack.
>
> I do agree we should use whatever method is best for our needs, so
> we're in sync there. But I think you are doing way more work than you
> need to.

How would it be used to make an email form that looks great on both a 4" 
phone and an 11" tablet, in both orientations on each?


How can FSM be used to produce the layouts of Evernote, or Twitter, or 
SimpleNote, or Maps, or Instagram, etc.?


My experience with FSM is admittedly limited. Its description suggests 
it does not attempt to make intelligent decisions about the placement of 
specific controls relative to each other, or make some objects wider 
while preserving their height, etc.


If I've missed something and there's a way to get a 70px button to 
remain 70px but at a different location relative to another object on 
all screen sizes without writing a line of code, of course I'd love it.


But at the moment, my primitive ways places me at no greater 
disadvantage than most app devs and nearly all web devs.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Surprise...

2018-08-21 Thread Tom Glod via use-livecode
maybe when the new chunk types were added  it put some overhead on
operations on other chunks? weird

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 4:27 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Wasn't it Unicode that slowed everything, especially string parsing down?
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Aug 21, 2018, at 11:00 , Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Brian:
> >
> > > I expanded my test stack and ran it
> > > on the versions I had available.
> >
> > Thanks for (among other things!) running these tests.
> >
> > It's useful to see the item vs array turning point.
> >
> > I also notice something else, if I read your result correctly: LC9 beats
> LC8 on these tests (that's a good sign!) but LC6 still dominates them all,
> in this particular type of exercise that you've coded, on Mac. It was also
> the winner in my previous tests on Windows.
> >
> > ("The Un...defeated... Defen...ding... Champion!")
> >
> > I hope to see LC9/10 further optimized. I love LC6, but you must
> understand I'm always entirely rooting for the latest version and hoping
> for it to wipe the floor with the others. When it wins, we all win.
> >
> > Plenty of methods and tricks to optimize LCS code, and the results may
> vary between releases and platforms, but engine optimization really is
> helpful. Its performance establishes the boundaries that we work within
> while scripting. When I get some time I'll run a new round of tests too and
> publish the results. Thanks again.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Curry K.
>
>
> ___
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Re: Surprise...

2018-08-21 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Wasn't it Unicode that slowed everything, especially string parsing down? 

Bob S


> On Aug 21, 2018, at 11:00 , Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Brian:
> 
> > I expanded my test stack and ran it
> > on the versions I had available.
> 
> Thanks for (among other things!) running these tests.
> 
> It's useful to see the item vs array turning point.
> 
> I also notice something else, if I read your result correctly: LC9 beats LC8 
> on these tests (that's a good sign!) but LC6 still dominates them all, in 
> this particular type of exercise that you've coded, on Mac. It was also the 
> winner in my previous tests on Windows.
> 
> ("The Un...defeated... Defen...ding... Champion!")
> 
> I hope to see LC9/10 further optimized. I love LC6, but you must understand 
> I'm always entirely rooting for the latest version and hoping for it to wipe 
> the floor with the others. When it wins, we all win.
> 
> Plenty of methods and tricks to optimize LCS code, and the results may vary 
> between releases and platforms, but engine optimization really is helpful. 
> Its performance establishes the boundaries that we work within while 
> scripting. When I get some time I'll run a new round of tests too and publish 
> the results. Thanks again.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry K.


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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote:

> @ Richard I did not ask to a "simple" example.
>
> "Just yesterday I delivered a UI with several hundred controls on a
> card, some quite deeply nested within groups.  But the layout did not
> require writing anywhere close to one line per object.  Some was
> handled in loops, others handled by simply grouping objects and
> placing the group. Some don't need to be moved at all because their
> natural placement relative to topleft need not change.  Others were
> handled by combinations of the above in reusable behaviors."
>
> I want to see that e.g *as an actual stack*  - not a long explanation
> of how it is possible, which you have to provide that on least 6
> occasion that past two year. But but I want see code!

But but I want the time to do that!  :)

I would love to be able to deliver all sorts of example stacks, and I'd 
enjoy writing the tech notes to guide their dissection.  But the 
requirements of my work limit how much I can deliver here to an 
occasional description which may, admittedly, be unsatisfying.  If 
someone wants to send me a grant to spend a few weeks crafting 
instructional examples I'd prefer it over much of what I'm working on. 
But at the moment my obligations are where they are.


Besides, that particular layout was for an organization's internal 
needs, and even more relevant here than that it's proprietary to them is 
that their specific layout needs are unlikely to match the specific 
needs of your app.


So instead of throwing a pile of code over the wall as an irrelevant 
example of *what* to do for that one layout, it seemed more useful to go 
a level deeper and discuss *why* it's done which can help inform many 
layouts.


--

I used to hate writing object placement code.  In the olden days 
resizeStack handlers tended to be long monolithic blocks of code with 
cumbersomely long object references.  Mind numbing.


Then somewhere in the v5.x(?) cycle a small change was made to 
resizeControl that has big implications for layout management:


Previously, resizeControl was only sent to an object when it was resized 
interactively by the user with the pointer tool.


Today that message is also sent to a group when the group is resized by 
ANY means, including from another script.


That. Is. Big.

--

Most apps are comprised of regions, each of which contains controls or 
sometimes other sub-regions.  A navbar is a region comprised of a row of 
buttons, for example; a form is a region comprised of entry fields; etc.


Look at the apps you use, and think about them in terms of regions.

Regions of a screen are well expressed in LiveCode with groups.

With resizeControl triggered by scripts, instead of one long resizeStack 
handler in the card with tediously long object references, we can just 
set the rect of the few regions we have, and the mere act of adjusting 
our group rects will trigger the cascade of messages for each one.


Each group can then take care of itself.  And in doing so, the object 
references are much simpler. And the metrics are also simpler, able make 
use of the group itself as the bounds to work within.


Now you can modify the contents of a region, or even replace the group 
altogether, and all changes are localized in the group - nothing else is 
affected.


Add behaviors to the mix where useful, and things get ever simpler.

In broad terms:

- Consider UI patterns, look for sections that contain related
  functionality.

- Code the card for those regions. Its small resizeStack handler will
  trigger the cascade of resizeControl across the groups.

- Let the regions take care of their interior contents themselves.

- Nest groups wherever helpful, allowing each to enjoy
  the benefits of being self-contained.

- Use behaviors where practical.

Beyond that general gestalt of regions and localized code, another 
useful detail when placing things within groups under most circumstances 
is to set the lockLoc of the group and everything within it.  So much 
becomes so simple that way, and without it the automatic accommodate of 
interior objects within a group can sometimes be mystifying.  All that 
becomes confidently predictable with lockLoc.


--

None of this may matter much with regard to the app you're working on at 
the moment, since Jacque's description suggests it's a good fit for FSM, 
which you're already using.


So the description above may be more helpful for others, whose apps' 
layout needs follow more common patterns.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
I should step into middle this because our app is under discussion.

Jacque: I appreciate your support of LC amazing auto-resizing options.
They are truly marvelous

But perhaps we take a Big View of Landscape. You have to realize I done
web development since 1993. Currently we "evolving" two new web sites,
(while I do the Siva Siva app). I have been involved in the Hinduism
Today Web site (XOOPS/PHP) and did "php" for a while 'till I got fed up
with it.

So from where I sit as production manager/web coordinator with some
fingers attached to the budgets. Some thing are obvious.

1) The web site "Saiva Bible" under construction by young Indian man in
Delhi tech section. Is being done PHP and jQuery And misc JS.   This is
relatively simple app (the UI) But is has 1000's in line of code in the
Style CSS sheet alone, and 1000 line of JS dedication to the UI.

2) about to be released (next week)

Himalayan Academy Musuem of Spiritual Art

http://dev.himalayanacadem.com/hamsa

is also relatively simple UI...

this developed in ELM and output to JS and CSS.  

[[FYI to all the content people out there, this art work is free for
taking, no license required.]]

Suffice it to say that building  UI in these environment involves an
*enormous* amount code. Most of it extremely opaque. And building that
is a "pain" and the cost 5-10X the cost of LC development (where we hire
out html5 programming)

Meanwhile I get up a 2:15am and start coding at 3:00 and really consider
it "fun" to do in Livecode. If the app gets traction (it cannot until
Android working! When is RC2 coming!) I may be able hire to some help
for here.

So one of the reason I push the team on SivaSiva app, is because I need
their help. And to push (like others do also) the LC tech to the next
level.

So, if Richard say that "some manually coding" it required, it does
"daunt"  me in the least. I'm sure it would, rational, English like, and
perfect sense.  Compared to web, coding resize handlers in LC, would be
a "dream machine"

An another important trend is the "rise of vector graphics" which means
"look good at any scale"...means this "resize any to fit device" (yes, i
know a lot of applications down need that) will have big implications
for content developers.

OK so @Richard: send the stack that the handles 100 objects or more!

BR





On 8/21/18 7:48 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> Please let me clarify, as I have in every discussion of this topic, that 
> I fully recognize FSM exists for a reason, and there are cases where 
> it's a good choice.



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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

On 8/21/18 10:28 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:

@ Monte:

"mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations to set the rects you want the stack to be 
for each orientation"

you mean we can actually set up several of these with the same preopenstack 
handler! That big news...


I think he meant just the four variations on the two main orientations 
-- portrait and landscape.


But we can set mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations whenever it's 
needed so that it's dynamic, which I think you already do in the browser 
stack. Then set it to empty when the stack closes to go back to the 
default sizing.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

On 8/21/18 1:26 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Jim Lambert wrote:

 > A shootout between FSM vs. scripted resizing might make a good LC
 > Global presentation.
 > The pros and cons of each. Cases where one may be better than the
 > other. Etc.
 > Examples.

I touched on it in my LCG talk on UX in October last year.


I devoted a lot of my hour to it in my Android Tips talk last year too. 
But yeah, maybe you and I could team up and do a one-on-one debate. 
Someone could set up a rope ring and we could wear boxing gloves. :)


For the onlookers: Richard and I have been friends forever, but I bet we 
could fake it.



The stretch-or-gap solution FSM provides can be an excellent fit for those


That's where I think you're missing something. Those aren't the only 
options. Nobody uses stretch (not even Monument Valley) due to the 
distortion. But you aren't limited to seeing gaps, there are ways to 
avoid that. That's what my talk covered. The result is closer to what 
you describe with manual resizing. No gaps, and use of the edges around 
the stack.


I do agree we should use whatever method is best for our needs, so we're 
in sync there. But I think you are doing way more work than you need to.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode

> Le 20 août 2018 à 22:36, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  a écrit :
> 
> On 8/19/18 11:11 PM, Ludovic THEBAULT via use-livecode wrote:
>> But i found i can get the « real » top and bottom with : round((item 4 of 
>> the screenrect*the systemscale)/2)-theight // +theight (for the bottom)
>> where theight is the height of my stack before fullscreenmode.
> 
> You should be able to get the stack rect from "the rect of this card", or 
> "the rect of this stack". That may have been lost in the long conversation 
> that followed your question.
> 
> The card rect will tell you the width and height, the stack rect will tell 
> you the pixel locations of the top, sides, and bottom. Does that work for 
> you? Brian observed that the actual mobile size isn't defined yet on 
> preOpenCard (I haven't tested that) so you may need to query it after the app 
> has fully loaded.
> 

Hello, thanks

But even « the rect of this cd » return the rect of the stack i created 
(0,0,768,1024) not the rect of the screen.
I’ve made a test stack. It’s an « iPad » stack. Test it with iOS simulator on 
an iPhone device.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iwwm2syiqzqamtg/testsubstack2.livecode?dl=0

Click on « get the rect » and click on « Adapt » to set the rect of the 
background to the rect of the screen
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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Jim Lambert wrote:

> A shootout between FSM vs. scripted resizing might make a good LC
> Global presentation.
> The pros and cons of each. Cases where one may be better than the
> other. Etc.
> Examples.

I touched on it in my LCG talk on UX in October last year.

It was only a brief part of the discussion because there really isn't 
much to compare.  They're so very different that it's rare one would 
feel the need to choose between them.  The nature of the layout dictates 
which will do what you need.


If there's any general guidance, the pattern that seems to have emerged 
in the complete agreement Jacque and I have on the applicability of each 
method to a given layout might come down to this:


In broad terms, many apps could be categorized as either "productivity 
apps" or "multimedia presentations".


Many games, and perhaps apps like Swami's, provide good examples of 
multimedia presentations.  The stretch-or-gap solution FSM provides can 
be an excellent fit for those, and indeed it is simple to use as long as 
what you need to do fits with what it does.


Apps like gMmail, Firefox, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Skype,
SimpleNote, Play Music, Nextcloud, Hangouts, Telegram, Maps, Calculator, 
and others are examples of productivity apps.


In those, we often see a focus on consistent text and object sizes 
across device types, with regions that adjust relative to others to make 
optimal use of every pixel on the user's screen.  That's the sort of 
stuff we've been doing for years with resizeStack handlers on the 
desktop, providing us with transferable knowledge for mobile as well.


Look at the layout you want to make.  Look at the apps on your phone. 
Find some that look like what you want to make.  Do that.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Surprise...

2018-08-21 Thread Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode



Brian:

> I expanded my test stack and ran it
> on the versions I had available.

Thanks for (among other things!) running these tests.

It's useful to see the item vs array turning point.

I also notice something else, if I read your result correctly: LC9 beats 
LC8 on these tests (that's a good sign!) but LC6 still dominates them 
all, in this particular type of exercise that you've coded, on Mac. It 
was also the winner in my previous tests on Windows.


("The Un...defeated... Defen...ding... Champion!")

I hope to see LC9/10 further optimized. I love LC6, but you must 
understand I'm always entirely rooting for the latest version and hoping 
for it to wipe the floor with the others. When it wins, we all win.


Plenty of methods and tricks to optimize LCS code, and the results may 
vary between releases and platforms, but engine optimization really is 
helpful. Its performance establishes the boundaries that we work within 
while scripting. When I get some time I'll run a new round of tests too 
and publish the results. Thanks again.


Best wishes,

Curry K.


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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Bob Sneidar wrote:

> I've said this before, and perhaps it bears repeating. Many apps do
> not support resizing simply because the nature of the app does not
> lend itself to it.

I think everyone here would agree with that.

When an app doesn't need to do something, don't do it.

While most apps allow the user to resize the window, "most" is not "all".


Mobile is a special case because although the window is not 
user-resizable it will resize at least once to fit the device screen.


How one handles that depends on what the app needs to do.

Look at the apps on your phone, find some that look like what you want, 
and do that.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Auto-resizing does require an awareness during initial layout of how
> fullscreenMode works. The objections you've raised can all be dealt
> with if you're a stickler for HIG (which even the companies who
> publish them don't follow. They're just guidelines.)

Of course. But beneath the niggly dictates of the HIGs are some 
fundamental principles worth considering.  Nothing as onerous as 
skinning details, just basics like making sure text is readable, buttons 
tappable, and, when practical, that an app looks and behaves in ways 
that blend well with the rest of the user's experience.


Please let me clarify, as I have in every discussion of this topic, that 
I fully recognize FSM exists for a reason, and there are cases where 
it's a good choice.


Despite the ardent back-and-forth here and in related discussions, I've 
never seen any disagreement at all on the applicability of one resizing 
method over another as it relates to a specific layout.


This discussion of Swami's app is a good example:  based on your 
previous description of the particulars of his layout, I'd already 
written that FSM may be a good fit for that.


As with anything in software design, it helps to stand on the shoulders 
of those before us:


When we want to make an app, look at other apps of its kind and do that.

If there's any caution at all merited for FSM, it's simply that as 
useful as it, when we look at the apps we have on our devices we see 
that the stretch-or-gap method FSM provides is less common than specific 
control placement.


Of course "less common" does not mean "non-existent".  I keep supporting 
use of FSM in cases like Monument Valley because it's a gorgeous and 
successful app, and uses exactly what FSM offers quite easily.


But if one is making other types of apps, use the methods those apps use.


>> We're scripters; we generally enjoy scripting. But reasons I
>> don't yet understand, writing the relatively small part of the code
>> to deliver a precise UI annoys people to the point of spending a
>> multiple of the time the task requires trying to find ways of
>> avoiding the task.
>
> In my experience this is exactly backwards, maybe because we develop
> different types of apps.

"Yes!", "Bingo!", "Hallelujah!", and every other enthusiastic 
affirmative I can find. :)


That's the thing:  Not all apps are the same.

To say one must always use one method over another without regard for 
the specifics of the app would be as ineffectual as requiring a raincoat 
every time you leave the house regardless what season it is.


The two methods are as different as sandals and galoshes.  They're so 
different there's usually no question at all when we would choose one 
over another.



> Tell you what. Let's have one of our friendly chats some time and I'll
> will either convince you or hit you over the head with my goody bag at
> the next conference. :P

I always enjoy talking with you and you're always welcome to call.  But 
given that you and I have never disagreed on the applicability of one 
resizing method over another for a given layout, I would imagine that 
part of the conversation would be very short.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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RE: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
I'm having the opposite problem with 9.0.1 rc1. I'm narrowing down on the 
strange rendering in 9.0.1 that doesn't happen in 9.0. Some controls don't show 
up at all other partially render(only 3 words of a page of text). This happens 
during the startup procedure before the first time the engine goes to idle so 
to speak. The app goes from splash card to the "Please Wait" card and then the 
card with the problems. This card has an image in the masthead, a page of text 
and 2 LC buttons. The text flashes 3 words in the middle of the text then all 
the text appears but the buttons are not there. I'm trying to make a small-ish 
stack with a recipe.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 1:09 PM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Richard Gaskin
Subject: Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

Monte Goulding wrote:

 > Aha… yes a number of members of the team (myself included) have become  > 
 > quite familiar with the Siva Siva app. It has exposed/highlighted  > quite a 
 > number of accelerated rendering issues that we have fixed in  > 9.0.1.

Thanks, Monte.  v9.0.1 is shaping up nicely, everything I've been enjoying 
about v9 with a bit more fit-and-finish here and there.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  
  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Monte Goulding wrote:

> Aha… yes a number of members of the team (myself included) have become
> quite familiar with the Siva Siva app. It has exposed/highlighted
> quite a number of accelerated rendering issues that we have fixed in
> 9.0.1.

Thanks, Monte.  v9.0.1 is shaping up nicely, everything I've been 
enjoying about v9 with a bit more fit-and-finish here and there.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Jim Lambert via use-livecode
A shootout between FSM vs. scripted resizing might make a good LC Global 
presentation.
The pros and cons of each. Cases where one may be better than the other. Etc.
Examples.

Jim Lambert
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Re: revNavigator - Cloning a card - am i doing something wrong?

2018-08-21 Thread Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
Geoff,
thanks for the quick update.

There´s another thing i noticed:

I moved the opened revNavigator stack on the right side of the LC Menu below 
the Mac OS X menu bar.
When i click the arrow icon to collaps the revNavigator stack, then it is moved 
outside of the screen.

I have to change  the y-coordinate from 29  to 155 to get it displayed again.  

Regards,
Matthias


> Am 21.08.2018 um 11:31 schrieb Geoff Canyon  >:
> 
> It turns out I think I'm not doing something wrong, but I fixed it anyway. ;-)
> 
> It appears the "clone" command doesn't match the documentation. For me, in LC 
> 8 on a Mac, it seems that issuing a clone command for a card in another stack 
> doesn't clone the card in its owner, but to the stack running the script. 
> This isn't just a Navigator thing, I tested with two new stacks.
> 
> "go"ing to the stack containing the card to be cloned before cloning it 
> eliminates the issue.
> 
> So, much the same as I do for relayering controls for drag and drop, I now 
> store the current topstack, lock messages and the screen, go to the card to 
> be cloned, and then return. There appear to be some anomalies associated with 
> this: after it's done the topstack doesn't have the right decorations, and 
> there were some other issues as well; but the main problem of the cloned card 
> going into Navigator is, I think, fixed. You can update Navigator to get the 
> fix:
> 
>  Get Navigator here 
> . Or grab it 
> from GitHub .
> 
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:13 AM Geoff Canyon  > wrote:
> Wow, that's a brutal bug. You're not doing anything wrong, I am ;-)
> 
> I'm looking at it now...
> 
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 12:35 AM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> today i wanted to clone a card with Navigator, but the cloned card then is 
> added to the revNavigator stack instead to the original stack. And much more 
> important, after cloning the card revNavigator is going to that cloned card. 
> So no way to use Navigator until i restart.
> 
> I tried both, cloning from the card list and also cloning when “this card” is 
> selected.
> 
> Am i doing something wrong or am i missing something?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
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Re: Navigator 6.1 alpha1 is out

2018-08-21 Thread Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 3:46 AM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> My Bad!
> I am replying to my own question.
> I found that by right clicking on the item and using the "select objects",
> I
> can hilite and get the object  info.
>

Yep, when Navigator is doing a "live" display -- showing the controls on
whatever card is displayed in the topstack -- then Navigator reflects the
controls you select on the card, and the selection will be updated to
reflect whatever you select in Navigator. When you are displaying anything
else -- when Navigator is pinned to a specific card or group or background
-- it doesn't do that, because there's no guarantee that the container is
even visible.

As you found, you can right-click on any controls in the list and select
"Select Objects", which will do its best to select the controls -- for
example, even if the browse tool is selected. But you can get the object
info for anything right in Navigator, without selecting it, on the
Properties and Custom Properties menu.

gc
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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Wonderful discussion!


@ Bob: agreed that "from ground up" could be one approach. But i have use cases 
where fully response screen is need and uses case where FSM is the best 
decision. it not "either" or "or" using resizestack of fullScreedMode

So the "tension" behind making that decision can to set aside.

@ Richard I did not ask to a "simple" example.

"Just yesterday I delivered a UI with several hundred controls on a card, 
some quite deeply nested within groups.  But the layout did not require 
writing anywhere close to one line per object.  Some was handled in 
loops, others handled by simply grouping objects and placing the group. 
Some don't need to be moved at all because their natural placement 
relative to topleft need not change.  Others were handled by 
combinations of the above in reusable behaviors."

I want to see that e.g *as an actual stack*  - not a long explanation of how it 
is possible, which you have to provide that on least 6 occasion that past two 
year. But but I want see code!

@ Monte: 

"mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations to set the rects you want the stack to 
be for each orientation"

you mean we can actually set up several of these with the same preopenstack 
handler! That big news... 







On 8/20/18 3:50 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> On 21 Aug 2018, at 11:32 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> - In this thread we have at least half a dozen people, including two from 
>> the core team, all working together to explore various options for placing 
>> one object within a resizing method chosen for its ostensible ease of use. :)
> Hmm… I only see one response from core team and it was from me responding to 
> your queries about when you might get an orientationChanged message and not 
> get a resizeStack message. I did not make any recommendation about which of 
> those handlers to do object placement in if that’s what you are suggesting. 
> By definition if you want to script layout changes when the stack changes 
> size doing so in resizeStack is the only place that makes any sense.
>
> If you want to use a fullscreenMode on mobile and have an app with layouts 
> for portrait and landscape then use mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations to 
> set the rects you want the stack to be for each orientation then handle 
> resizeStack to update the layout.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
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RE: Navigator 6.0 Alpha 4

2018-08-21 Thread Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode
Thanks, Geoff ... and sorry... I guess I didn't dig quite deep enough.  I am 
very "Project Browser" brainwashed... as a result I'm having an "old dog-new 
tricks" learning curve with Navigator.

I just have to manipulate Navigator a bit more than I had to fiddle with the 
Project Browser.  Yes, I see that card now


Douglas Ruisaard
Trilogy Software
(250) 573-3935

From: Geoff Canyon [mailto:gcan...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 6:34 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Douglas Ruisaard
Subject: Re: Navigator 6.0 Alpha 4

Is this what you're talking about? The template stack for a data grid has two 
cards, and Navigator (unlike the Project Browser) is designed to show a single 
card of a single stack at a time. There is a card menu (shown below) that lets 
you select which card to display. Hopefully this answers your question.

A couple additional bits: really, Navigator can display any single container, 
so: a card, a group, or a background. Or it can display a list of stacks, 
cards, or backgrounds. You can have multiple (as many as you like) copies of 
Navigator open at the same time, and each can display a different container. 
And Navigator lets you bookmark controls, so if you need easy access to a few 
controls from two different cards at the same time, in the same Navigator, 
bookmarks will let you do that.

Let me know if this answered your question, or if there's still something that 
looks broken.

regards,

Geoff




On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 10:30 AM Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode 
 wrote:
Geoff...

Excellent tool but I can't seem to get it to display one of the "cards" of a 
Data Grid template.  In a "standard" DataGrid Form object, Card Id's 1002 and 
1005 are created.

According to the LC Project Browser, which identifies iconically and 
positionally  the "Data Grid Template xx" as a "card" (although its 
Property sees it as a stack) ... and which Navigator correctly identifies it as 
a stack ... there is a Card id 1005 which contains a few objects, including the 
Behavior Script of the grid.

Card 1005 does NOT appear in Navigator... or at least I can't find a way to get 
it to appear.

Any suggestions?

Douglas Ruisaard
Trilogy Software




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Re: For those who do not know lcTasklist

2018-08-21 Thread AndyP via use-livecode
Also just purchased lcTaskList ... why did I wait sooo long!

Extra useful and saves sifting through code notes.

Clicking on an item in lcTaskList takes you straight to the line in the
script with the corresponding tag .. even opens the script editor if
necessary.

Highly recommended.




-
Andy Piddock 


My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. 

TinyIDE  a Free alternative minimalist IDE Plugin for LiveCode 


Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk  

PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / 
finder.
http://www.pointandsee.co.uk  - made with LiveCode
--
Sent from: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html

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Re: revNavigator - Cloning a card - am i doing something wrong?

2018-08-21 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
SO THAT'S how you do it! And do you mean it clones to the topstack? Usually you 
would clone a card from the message box, and of course it cannot clone to that! 

Bob S


> On Aug 21, 2018, at 02:31 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> It turns out I think I'm not doing something wrong, but I fixed it anyway.
> ;-)
> 
> It appears the "clone" command doesn't match the documentation. For me, in
> LC 8 on a Mac, it seems that issuing a clone command for a card in another
> stack doesn't clone the card in its owner, but to the stack running the
> script. This isn't just a Navigator thing, I tested with two new stacks.


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Re: For those who do not know lcTasklist

2018-08-21 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
I have it too. Very useful when I have a lot of bugs and new features to deal 
with. Of course, now my software has no bugs and the app is as awesome as it 
can be. ;-)

Bob S


> On Aug 20, 2018, at 16:44 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I´ve purchased the plugin lcTasklist a long time ago and used it now and 
> then. 
> But now i am totally in love with this great tool. 
> I was working on a really big project for months and i needed to add some 
> debug code, special comments and special information  in my scripts and i had 
> to mark some code for later reviewing. Without lcTasklist it would have been 
> really difficult or maybe nearly impossible  to find all of that again  in my 
> scripts.  With lcTasklist i not even got a list of these "comments", but was 
> able to jump directly to that code. 
> 
> This is a must have. Livecode Ltd.  really  should consider to license this 
> plugin to deliver it with Livecode.
> 
> The plugin costs $11.90  / Euro 11.31 and is worth every cent. So if you do 
> not know about it and want to get more information, then look here 
> .
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias

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Re: fullscreenmode and rect of a substack on mobile device ?

2018-08-21 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
I've said this before, and perhaps it bears repeating. Many apps do not support 
resizing simply because the nature of the app does not lend itself to it. We 
use an ERP called eAutomate. If you try to load the app on a monitor below a 
minimum resolution, it bugs out and fails to display a detail pane. And if on a 
larger monitor you decide to increase the Windows display percentage to make 
text more readable, anything above 125% bugs the app in a different way. This 
is a very popular service management application in use throughout the world. 
Our users constantly complain about readability on their monitors. The 
company's response is, sorry. It has to be that way given the amount of 
information we need to show at any given time. 

For an app to be resizable, it has to be designed from the ground up to be so. 
It's not a simple thing to do, and there is no magic bullet. If a single screen 
has many hundreds of controls, I begin to question whether or not screen 
resizing was something the developer had in mind when he started. 

The way I handle cards with a lot of controls is I use the Tab button, then 
create a group for each tab. On menuPick I hide ALL the groups, then show the 
group for the one tab. It's set up in such a way that all I have to do is 
properly name the group and the tab, and it "just works". 

Bob S


> On Aug 20, 2018, at 18:49 , Monte Goulding via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 21 Aug 2018, at 11:32 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> - In this thread we have at least half a dozen people, including two from 
>> the core team, all working together to explore various options for placing 
>> one object within a resizing method chosen for its ostensible ease of use. :)
> 
> Hmm… I only see one response from core team and it was from me responding to 
> your queries about when you might get an orientationChanged message and not 
> get a resizeStack message. I did not make any recommendation about which of 
> those handlers to do object placement in if that’s what you are suggesting. 
> By definition if you want to script layout changes when the stack changes 
> size doing so in resizeStack is the only place that makes any sense.
> 
> If you want to use a fullscreenMode on mobile and have an app with layouts 
> for portrait and landscape then use mobileSetFullScreenRectForOrientations to 
> set the rects you want the stack to be for each orientation then handle 
> resizeStack to update the layout.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte

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Re: Surprise...

2018-08-21 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
I expanded my test stack and ran it on the versions I had available.
Here's a couple of tests from each version:

macOS Sierra (10.12.6) on an iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2014) 4 GHz i7
9.0.1-rc-1 Business / 8.1.9 Business / 7.1.4 Indy / 6.7.11 Indy

34 10 11 10 34 5
LC9 item: 4562 / array: 12660 / 0.360348
LC8 item: 6175 / array: 13111 / 0.470979
LC7 item: 10994 / array: 11554 / 0.951532
LC6 item: 1278 / array: 4681 / 0.273019

340 10 11 10 34 500
LC9 item: 430179 / array: 125709 / 3.422022
LC8 item: 449724 / array: 131206 / 3.427618
LC7 item: 2473784 / array: 114818 / 21.545263
LC6 item: 258495 / array: 45592 / 5.669745

Notice that even in LC6, for this particular test (the original one), item
is faster (and by a bigger margin).  I don't think it is as much about the
speed of arrays per se, but knowing the data set and using the right
approach to get the optimal performance.  So, it is probably a reasonable
approach to use arrays first.  If you need to optimize for speed, this is
an area to consider.

Thanks,
Brian
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Re: For those who do not know lcTasklist

2018-08-21 Thread Lagi Pittas via use-livecode
Sorry Mathias,

I read the post - went away and had an inkling that the name began with an
"M" so I could have said Mark - but I knew it wasn't Klaus or Richmond -
dementia is not that bad yet! Thank you anyway because I'm sure it would
have come in useful a few times already if I had known about it.. For the
cost,  you only have to save less than half an hour to make it a worthwhile
purchase.

Regards Lagi

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 at 11:29, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Lagi,
>
> i am not Malte, i am Matthias (Ματθίας). ;)
> But anyway. Good to know that the user base of lcTaskList increases.
>
> Regards,
>
> Matthias
>
> > Am 21.08.2018 um 11:48 schrieb Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >:
> >
> > HI Malte,
> >
> > I just bought it on your recommendation - I'm sure it will be very useful
> > as I'm "refactoring" some old code at the moment (make it work THEN make
> it
> > better).
> >
> > Lagi
> >
> > A brute force solution that works is better than an elegant solution that
> > doesn't work.
> > Steve McConell - Code Complete
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 at 00:44, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I´ve purchased the plugin lcTasklist a long time ago and used it now and
> >> then.
> >> But now i am totally in love with this great tool.
> >> I was working on a really big project for months and i needed to add
> some
> >> debug code, special comments and special information  in my scripts and
> i
> >> had to mark some code for later reviewing. Without lcTasklist it would
> have
> >> been really difficult or maybe nearly impossible  to find all of that
> >> again  in my scripts.  With lcTasklist i not even got a list of these
> >> "comments", but was able to jump directly to that code.
> >>
> >> This is a must have. Livecode Ltd.  really  should consider to license
> >> this plugin to deliver it with Livecode.
> >>
> >> The plugin costs $11.90  / Euro 11.31 and is worth every cent. So if you
> >> do not know about it and want to get more information, then look here <
> >> https://livecode.com/extensions/lctasklist/1-3-0/ <
> https://livecode.com/extensions/lctasklist/1-3-0/>>.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Matthias
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
> Matthias Rebbe
> Tel +49 5741 31
> ‌https://matthiasrebbe.eu ‌
>
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RE: Navigator 6.1 alpha1 is out

2018-08-21 Thread Clarence Martin via use-livecode
My Bad!
I am replying to my own question.
I found that by right clicking on the item and using the "select objects", I
can hilite and get the object  info.

GREAT PLUGIN!

Sincerely,

Clarence Martin
Email: chi...@themartinz.com
Cell: 626 696-5561

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of
Clarence Martin via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 3:35 AM
To: 'How to use LiveCode' 
Cc: chi...@themartinz.com
Subject: RE: Navigator 6.1 alpha1 is out

Geoff, When I create a new Navigator for a Group, when I click on an item it
does not get selected on the card. Am I doing something wrong?

Sincerely,

Clarence Martin
Email: chi...@themartinz.com
Cell: 626 696-5561

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of
Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 2:37 AM
To: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Geoff Canyon 
Subject: Re: Navigator 6.1 alpha1 is out

I made a slight update to fix an issue with the drag and drop indicators.
Using some fonts in Navigator's list field would cause the indicators to be
off when dragging in long lists. Oddly, this seems to be because the
effective textHeight of the field reports a 1-off pixel count. So instead of
using that I switched to using the textheightsum / the number of lines of
the field. Wasteful, but accurate.

You can update Navigator to get the fix. As usual:

 Get Navigator here
. Or grab it
from GitHub .

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 3:46 PM Geoff Canyon  wrote:

> Phew -- this was a lot of work, as I basically had to (for about the 
> ninth
> time!) completely re-write a portion of the drag-and-drop code, which 
> is by far my least favorite part of Navigator.
>
> Briefly, this release does three things:
>
> 1. Fixes drag-and-drop code so that it should work correctly even if: 
> you have folded groups; you have applied a test filter so that only 
> some controls are displayed; you have applied a text filter so that 
> only some controls are displayed.
>
> Makes group folding much more transparent by:
>
> 2. Adding a color strip to the left side of the Navigator display that 
> shows where to click a group to fold/unfold it.
>
> 3. Adding a line below a folded group that says something like, "8 
> folded controls."
>
> Apart from providing a visual cue that a group has been folded, the 
> part that required looking at much of Navigator's code is that the 
> line from (3) actually represents the 8 (or whatever) controls in that 
> group. You can click on that one line and drag them someplace else, or 
> modify their properties. Etc, etc.
>
> There's no functionality in Navigator yet to "collapse" any set of 
> controls other than when folding the controls in a group, but there's 
> nothing to prevent it I don't think. So if you have suggestions beyond 
> just adding a command to the Navigator pop-up menu to "fold these 
> controls" let me know.
>
> Making it so that any line in Navigator's display can represent any 
> number of controls is fundamental to much of what Navigator does, so 
> this is definitely an alpha release.
>
> As usual, you can get Navigator here
> . Or 
> grab it from GitHub .
>
> Now on to a couple bugs that have been reported...
>
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RE: Navigator 6.1 alpha1 is out

2018-08-21 Thread Clarence Martin via use-livecode
Geoff, When I create a new Navigator for a Group, when I click on an item it
does not get selected on the card. Am I doing something wrong?

Sincerely,

Clarence Martin
Email: chi...@themartinz.com
Cell: 626 696-5561

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of
Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 2:37 AM
To: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Geoff Canyon 
Subject: Re: Navigator 6.1 alpha1 is out

I made a slight update to fix an issue with the drag and drop indicators.
Using some fonts in Navigator's list field would cause the indicators to be
off when dragging in long lists. Oddly, this seems to be because the
effective textHeight of the field reports a 1-off pixel count. So instead of
using that I switched to using the textheightsum / the number of lines of
the field. Wasteful, but accurate.

You can update Navigator to get the fix. As usual:

 Get Navigator here
. Or grab it
from GitHub .

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 3:46 PM Geoff Canyon  wrote:

> Phew -- this was a lot of work, as I basically had to (for about the 
> ninth
> time!) completely re-write a portion of the drag-and-drop code, which 
> is by far my least favorite part of Navigator.
>
> Briefly, this release does three things:
>
> 1. Fixes drag-and-drop code so that it should work correctly even if: 
> you have folded groups; you have applied a test filter so that only 
> some controls are displayed; you have applied a text filter so that 
> only some controls are displayed.
>
> Makes group folding much more transparent by:
>
> 2. Adding a color strip to the left side of the Navigator display that 
> shows where to click a group to fold/unfold it.
>
> 3. Adding a line below a folded group that says something like, "8 
> folded controls."
>
> Apart from providing a visual cue that a group has been folded, the 
> part that required looking at much of Navigator's code is that the 
> line from (3) actually represents the 8 (or whatever) controls in that 
> group. You can click on that one line and drag them someplace else, or 
> modify their properties. Etc, etc.
>
> There's no functionality in Navigator yet to "collapse" any set of 
> controls other than when folding the controls in a group, but there's 
> nothing to prevent it I don't think. So if you have suggestions beyond 
> just adding a command to the Navigator pop-up menu to "fold these 
> controls" let me know.
>
> Making it so that any line in Navigator's display can represent any 
> number of controls is fundamental to much of what Navigator does, so 
> this is definitely an alpha release.
>
> As usual, you can get Navigator here
> . Or 
> grab it from GitHub .
>
> Now on to a couple bugs that have been reported...
>
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Re: For those who do not know lcTasklist

2018-08-21 Thread Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
Lagi,

i am not Malte, i am Matthias (Ματθίας). ;)
But anyway. Good to know that the user base of lcTaskList increases.

Regards,

Matthias

> Am 21.08.2018 um 11:48 schrieb Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> HI Malte,
> 
> I just bought it on your recommendation - I'm sure it will be very useful
> as I'm "refactoring" some old code at the moment (make it work THEN make it
> better).
> 
> Lagi
> 
> A brute force solution that works is better than an elegant solution that
> doesn't work.
> Steve McConell - Code Complete
> 
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 at 00:44, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I´ve purchased the plugin lcTasklist a long time ago and used it now and
>> then.
>> But now i am totally in love with this great tool.
>> I was working on a really big project for months and i needed to add some
>> debug code, special comments and special information  in my scripts and i
>> had to mark some code for later reviewing. Without lcTasklist it would have
>> been really difficult or maybe nearly impossible  to find all of that
>> again  in my scripts.  With lcTasklist i not even got a list of these
>> "comments", but was able to jump directly to that code.
>> 
>> This is a must have. Livecode Ltd.  really  should consider to license
>> this plugin to deliver it with Livecode.
>> 
>> The plugin costs $11.90  / Euro 11.31 and is worth every cent. So if you
>> do not know about it and want to get more information, then look here <
>> https://livecode.com/extensions/lctasklist/1-3-0/ 
>> >.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode 
>> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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> 
Matthias Rebbe
Tel +49 5741 31
‌https://matthiasrebbe.eu ‌

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Re: For those who do not know lcTasklist

2018-08-21 Thread Lagi Pittas via use-livecode
HI Malte,

I just bought it on your recommendation - I'm sure it will be very useful
as I'm "refactoring" some old code at the moment (make it work THEN make it
better).

Lagi

A brute force solution that works is better than an elegant solution that
doesn't work.
Steve McConell - Code Complete

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 at 00:44, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I´ve purchased the plugin lcTasklist a long time ago and used it now and
> then.
> But now i am totally in love with this great tool.
> I was working on a really big project for months and i needed to add some
> debug code, special comments and special information  in my scripts and i
> had to mark some code for later reviewing. Without lcTasklist it would have
> been really difficult or maybe nearly impossible  to find all of that
> again  in my scripts.  With lcTasklist i not even got a list of these
> "comments", but was able to jump directly to that code.
>
> This is a must have. Livecode Ltd.  really  should consider to license
> this plugin to deliver it with Livecode.
>
> The plugin costs $11.90  / Euro 11.31 and is worth every cent. So if you
> do not know about it and want to get more information, then look here <
> https://livecode.com/extensions/lctasklist/1-3-0/>.
>
> Regards,
>
> Matthias
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Navigator 6.1 alpha1 is out

2018-08-21 Thread Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
I made a slight update to fix an issue with the drag and drop indicators.
Using some fonts in Navigator's list field would cause the indicators to be
off when dragging in long lists. Oddly, this seems to be because the
effective textHeight of the field reports a 1-off pixel count. So instead
of using that I switched to using the textheightsum / the number of lines
of the field. Wasteful, but accurate.

You can update Navigator to get the fix. As usual:

 Get Navigator here
. Or grab it
from GitHub .

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 3:46 PM Geoff Canyon  wrote:

> Phew -- this was a lot of work, as I basically had to (for about the ninth
> time!) completely re-write a portion of the drag-and-drop code, which is by
> far my least favorite part of Navigator.
>
> Briefly, this release does three things:
>
> 1. Fixes drag-and-drop code so that it should work correctly even if: you
> have folded groups; you have applied a test filter so that only some
> controls are displayed; you have applied a text filter so that only some
> controls are displayed.
>
> Makes group folding much more transparent by:
>
> 2. Adding a color strip to the left side of the Navigator display that
> shows where to click a group to fold/unfold it.
>
> 3. Adding a line below a folded group that says something like, "8 folded
> controls."
>
> Apart from providing a visual cue that a group has been folded, the part
> that required looking at much of Navigator's code is that the line from (3)
> actually represents the 8 (or whatever) controls in that group. You can
> click on that one line and drag them someplace else, or modify their
> properties. Etc, etc.
>
> There's no functionality in Navigator yet to "collapse" any set of
> controls other than when folding the controls in a group, but there's
> nothing to prevent it I don't think. So if you have suggestions beyond just
> adding a command to the Navigator pop-up menu to "fold these controls" let
> me know.
>
> Making it so that any line in Navigator's display can represent any number
> of controls is fundamental to much of what Navigator does, so this is
> definitely an alpha release.
>
> As usual, you can get Navigator here
> . Or grab
> it from GitHub .
>
> Now on to a couple bugs that have been reported...
>
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Re: revNavigator - Cloning a card - am i doing something wrong?

2018-08-21 Thread Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
It turns out I think I'm not doing something wrong, but I fixed it anyway.
;-)

It appears the "clone" command doesn't match the documentation. For me, in
LC 8 on a Mac, it seems that issuing a clone command for a card in another
stack doesn't clone the card in its owner, but to the stack running the
script. This isn't just a Navigator thing, I tested with two new stacks.

"go"ing to the stack containing the card to be cloned before cloning it
eliminates the issue.

So, much the same as I do for relayering controls for drag and drop, I now
store the current topstack, lock messages and the screen, go to the card to
be cloned, and then return. There appear to be some anomalies associated
with this: after it's done the topstack doesn't have the right decorations,
and there were some other issues as well; but the main problem of the
cloned card going into Navigator is, I think, fixed. You can update
Navigator to get the fix:

 Get Navigator here
. Or grab it
from GitHub .

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:13 AM Geoff Canyon  wrote:

> Wow, that's a brutal bug. You're not doing anything wrong, I am ;-)
>
> I'm looking at it now...
>
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 12:35 AM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> today i wanted to clone a card with Navigator, but the cloned card then
>> is added to the revNavigator stack instead to the original stack. And much
>> more important, after cloning the card revNavigator is going to that cloned
>> card. So no way to use Navigator until i restart.
>>
>> I tried both, cloning from the card list and also cloning when “this
>> card” is selected.
>>
>> Am i doing something wrong or am i missing something?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Matthias
>>
>>
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Re: revNavigator - Cloning a card - am i doing something wrong?

2018-08-21 Thread Geoff Canyon via use-livecode
Wow, that's a brutal bug. You're not doing anything wrong, I am ;-)

I'm looking at it now...

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 12:35 AM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> today i wanted to clone a card with Navigator, but the cloned card then is
> added to the revNavigator stack instead to the original stack. And much
> more important, after cloning the card revNavigator is going to that cloned
> card. So no way to use Navigator until i restart.
>
> I tried both, cloning from the card list and also cloning when “this card”
> is selected.
>
> Am i doing something wrong or am i missing something?
>
> Regards,
>
> Matthias
>
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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revNavigator - Cloning a card - am i doing something wrong?

2018-08-21 Thread Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
Hi,

today i wanted to clone a card with Navigator, but the cloned card then is 
added to the revNavigator stack instead to the original stack. And much more 
important, after cloning the card revNavigator is going to that cloned card. So 
no way to use Navigator until i restart.

I tried both, cloning from the card list and also cloning when “this card” is 
selected.

Am i doing something wrong or am i missing something?

Regards,

Matthias


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