Re: Navigator 6.2 alpha 1 is out

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

Updated to alpha 3. Found and fixed an issue with custom values in the
prefs palette. Should work now.
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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

PS - Alex, I see that when I modified the code I moved the timer and 
ended up timing the loading of the files, whereas you were timing the 
data comparison after loading! :) I'll try that tomorrow night. Good 
area for testing, interesting results.


Best wishes,

Curry K.


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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Alex:

> And I was encouraged to try a quick test - which turned out to be
> a counter-example. LC9 is 4x faster than LC6 on this little test
> (consistently over different photos).

Thanks! This is a good test. Any counter-examples are great since they 
narrow down the problem areas.


However, now the tricky part...

I tried this and got the same result, first timed LC 6, then LC 9 was 
faster.


But then (for variety) if I tested LC 9 first, then 6 was faster!

So I think OS caching may be playing a role. If so, that adds a new 
level of challenge to the testing and the tester. :)


If I retest the same files repeatedly (both cached) then LC 6 wins, on 
Windows 10, for both. LC 9 was 2x slower for URL and 1.5 times for 
open/read.


(I had modified the code slightly to let me choose a folder full of pics 
and choose URL or open/read, loading all the files with the selected 
method and adding up the total num of bytes.)


How about your code - if you test LC 9 first on new files, or the same 
files repeatedly with both LCs, is LC 9 still the winner?


Best wishes,

Curry K.


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Re: Navigator 6.2 alpha 1 is out

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

...and updated to alpha 2. Found and fixed a bug with proportional
resizing, and removed an unnecessary visual element from the resizing
dialog.
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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

[hh via use-livecode]

As to speed comparisons with LC 9:

Compared to LC 8, LC Builder of LC 9 has an increase of 50-120% in speed.
(Seen with timings when creating an LCD-scroller widget and an image widget).


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Navigator 6.2 alpha 1 is out

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

As usual, you can get Navigator here
. Or grab it
from GitHub .

The complete update list is below, but the four big things are:

1. Preferences are stored as an external text file, so updating Navigator
won't delete your color sets or anything else.
2. The Properties menu now includes access to a Size/Location editor, so
you can easily change the rect of any set of controls you like. It's easy
to align or center controls, and everything you do in the dialog can be
reverted if something goes wrong.
3. The Properties menu now includes access to a Colors editor, so you can
easily change any set of color properties for any set of controls. This
also has a revert function.
4. The filter function now has a toggle switch so you can filter by test as
well as just by matching text. So if you want to see just invisible
controls: "the vis of tID is false" or controls that are square: "the
height of tID is the width of tID" or controls without a tooltip: "the
tooltip of tID is empty." etc., etc.

I should add that the revert function in the editors is not dependent on
the editors themselves -- you can open the Size/Location editor and then
resize or move the selected controls any way you want, and then hit the
revert button and everything will go back to where it was when you opened
the editor (for the controls you selected when you opened the editor).

Let me know if you find any issues.

regards,

Geoff

Detailed change list:

Improved and simplified Navigator window-dragging code.
Fixed an error with layering in drag and drop between Navigators.
Fixed an error with editing colors.
Added a toggle to the filter box to allow filter by test as well as text
match.
Simplified the code to display the stack list.
Fixed an issue where mainstacks with templates for conversion to behaviors
would show up twice in the option menu in the conversion dialog.
Added an option to the properties menu to open Size/Location Editor.
Updated the Size/Location Editor:
 -- The previous way of resizing (which involved following the sizing of a
target object in real time) has been removed.
 -- Added a control to allow resizing/moving any control or set of
controls: adjust the sides/corners, or move the objects
 -- Added a reset button to undo all changes made.
Added an option to the properties menu to open the colors editor.
Updated the Colors editor:
 -- Added backgrounds to the color sliders to make it clearer what edits
what.
 -- Added a Choose button that opens the system color selector to put the
value into the sliders.
 -- Reorganized the layout to make it clearer.
 -- Added tooltips to explain how color selection works.
 -- Added a color swatch to show what color is set on the sliders.
 -- Added a reset button to undo all changes made.
Changed preferences to save and restore them in an external text file. The
format is fairly simple:
 -- All preferences are stored as a single line each.
 -- Each line is delimited into three items by numtochar(255).
 -- The first item is the property to be set.
 -- The second item is the name of the control that has the property --
this is a full name reference to the control, but not the long name. It
uses the name of the mainstack instead of the filename. Thus the value can
be used to set properties, but is portable from one installation to another.
 -- Values are urlencoded.
 -- In the one instance of a custompropertyset, the individual array values
for the custompropertyset are urlencoded to be a single line, then the
whole array is urlencoded to fit in the larger scheme.
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RE: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

I have observed this also. I tested by putting an animated gif in front of a 
extremely hi-res test image. LC 8 choked but LC9 did not even breath hard.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Alex Tweedly via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 5:54 PM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Alex Tweedly
Subject: Re: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

And I was encouraged to try a quick test - which turned out to be a 
counter-example. LC9 is 4x faster than LC6 on this little test (consistently 
over different photos).

*on mouseUp
local tData1, tData2, time1, temp
put URL ("binfile:/Users/alextweedly/Dropbox
(Personal)/Pictures/2016/101_0818/IMGP0021.JPG") into tData1
put URL ("binfile:/Users/alextweedly/Dropbox
(Personal)/Pictures/2016/101_0818/IMGP0021.JPG") into tData2
-- put tData1 into tData2
put the millisecs into time1
repeat 50 times
   if tData1 = tData2 then
  -- add 1 to temp
   end if
end repeat
put the number of bytes in tData1 && the millisecs - time1 && temp into msg 
end mouseUp

(it's an 18Mb image file).
Alex.
*
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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

On 11/09/2018 16:59, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:

Interesting considerations. Whatever the causes, LC 9 needs a little 
work to get back in shape. Get off the couch and start running again! 
:) There are so many different tasks where 9 is underperforming; any 
code with repeat loops, chunks, arrays, or math is likely to be slow 
compared to where we were 2 years ago. Mac is affected just as badly 
as Windows. Linux is affected too.


BTW Bob, Mark, Jerry, and others following this thread - could you 
also add your CC to the bug report in the QA center?



Done.

And I was encouraged to try a quick test - which turned out to be a 
counter-example. LC9 is 4x faster than LC6 on this little test 
(consistently over different photos).


*on mouseUp
   local tData1, tData2, time1, temp
   put URL ("binfile:/Users/alextweedly/Dropbox 
(Personal)/Pictures/2016/101_0818/IMGP0021.JPG") into tData1
   put URL ("binfile:/Users/alextweedly/Dropbox 
(Personal)/Pictures/2016/101_0818/IMGP0021.JPG") into tData2

   -- put tData1 into tData2
   put the millisecs into time1
   repeat 50 times
  if tData1 = tData2 then
 -- add 1 to temp
  end if
   end repeat
   put the number of bytes in tData1 && the millisecs - time1 && temp 
into msg

end mouseUp

(it's an 18Mb image file).
Alex.
*
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Re: Natural Programming

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Imagine if he replied, "No, my doctor took care of that."

Bob S


> On Sep 11, 2018, at 12:50 , Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> When I went to the USA in 1993 I had to set up a phone and did not understand 
> the way things were done so enquired at the phone office of the guy there, 
> "Do you have STD?"
> 
> [STD: Standard Trunk Dialling]
> 
> Richmond.


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Re: Natural Programming

[Richmond via use-livecode]

When I went to the USA in 1993 I had to set up a phone and did not 
understand the way things were done so enquired at the phone office of 
the guy there, "Do you have STD?"


[STD: Standard Trunk Dialling]

Richmond.


On 11.09.2018 22:36, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote:

On Sep 11, 2018, at 12:14 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
 wrote:

On 09/11/2018 10:27 AM, Jerry Jensen via use-livecode wrote:

Reminds me of the dyslexic cop that tried to give me an IUD.

On Sep 11, 2018, at 8:18 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 wrote:

You know, programming comes so naturally to me, it's like it's in my NDA.

I used to have dialup but now I'm happy with my LSD.

LLO! RTOFL!  -:D

Devin
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Re: Natural Programming

[Devin Asay via use-livecode]

On Sep 11, 2018, at 12:14 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
 wrote:
> On 09/11/2018 10:27 AM, Jerry Jensen via use-livecode wrote:
>> Reminds me of the dyslexic cop that tried to give me an IUD.
>>> On Sep 11, 2018, at 8:18 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You know, programming comes so naturally to me, it's like it's in my NDA.
> 
> I used to have dialup but now I'm happy with my LSD.

LLO! RTOFL!  -:D

Devin
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Re: Natural Programming

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 09/11/2018 10:27 AM, Jerry Jensen via use-livecode wrote:

Reminds me of the dyslexic cop that tried to give me an IUD.


On Sep 11, 2018, at 8:18 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 wrote:

You know, programming comes so naturally to me, it's like it's in my NDA.


I used to have dialup but now I'm happy with my LSD.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Natural Programming

[Jerry Jensen via use-livecode]

Reminds me of the dyslexic cop that tried to give me an IUD.

> On Sep 11, 2018, at 8:18 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> You know, programming comes so naturally to me, it's like it's in my NDA. 



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Re: Natural Programming

[Colin Holgate via use-livecode]

I’m surprised you can tell anyone about that.


> On Sep 11, 2018, at 11:18 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> You know, programming comes so naturally to me, it's like it's in my NDA. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 


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Re: Slow LC 9 Performance - Test Stack, Video, QA Report

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Mark Wieder:

> I'm suspicious enough of the sleight-of-hand that underpins the
> use of unquoted string literals not to trust the easy answers, ...

Bob S:

> That's the first thing I thought.

Interesting considerations. Whatever the causes, LC 9 needs a little 
work to get back in shape. Get off the couch and start running again! :) 
There are so many different tasks where 9 is underperforming; any code 
with repeat loops, chunks, arrays, or math is likely to be slow compared 
to where we were 2 years ago. Mac is affected just as badly as Windows. 
Linux is affected too.


BTW Bob, Mark, Jerry, and others following this thread - could you also 
add your CC to the bug report in the QA center?


https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21561

We need to get this problem squared away so that our LC code can 
accomplish greater things, and nothing says "it's important, it's pretty 
urgent" like more emails in the CC list.


Anyone with more than a few lines of code is likely to benefit from this 
effort. Any serious code written in LCS, especially any code for working 
with data or calculations. Do you want your own code (and the extensions 
you use) to run faster or slower - if you like your code to be in shape 
and run a decent mile, please take a moment to join this bug report.


And if anyone has sample code that hints at more (or more specific) 
problem areas to help pinpoint the issues, don't be shy! I believe a 
number of areas are affected, but who knows, maybe the root cause could 
be the same.


Working on a WordLib update during the last few weeks has given me a 
good opportunity to observe the slowdown, because WordLib supports both 
LC 6 and 9, and it also requires thousands of tests with hundreds of 
documents to test fixes and ensure quality.


So I measure speed too while I'm at it. Testing various code changes, I 
could see there are many coding tasks that LC 6 absolutely loves, even 
speeding up, while 9 just slows down. I ran into more potential problem 
areas that need to be isolated into test code once I sort them out, but 
may not get a chance to do so for a little while. Plus I may be missing 
something important. So if you have sample code that tests something I 
haven't, please post it. Thanks.


(WordLib release will be out soon!)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


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Natural Programming

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

You know, programming comes so naturally to me, it's like it's in my NDA. 

Bob S


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Re: Livecode's CEF Builds

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Mark, thanks for your in depth exploration of this issue ...

Richard, the coded issue for me is to allow my users to view all youtube
videos as well as any other streaming site that uses h264 ...youtube uses a
different codec for their live stuff and a different one for the archived
stuff. the archived stuff works for the most part.

Netflix doesn't work
Vimeo doesn't work

and I haven't tested other websites yet.

This issue is in regards to this project here.  Something I have been
working on for the past 50 days after realizing that 1. I needed a tool
like this and 2. it will help to have a smaller project in my portfolio.

https://www.makeshyft.com/timesavers-toolbox/

AND my desire to make the code open sourceto allow others to use the
(Time Saver's) framework  to build other apps and grow livecode
community.

So this issue is on behalf of my users who will inevitably want youtube to
work fully.  Sigh.

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 3:08 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2018-09-11 07:32, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> > So, your binaries would actually be non-GPLv3 licensed; but you would
> > then be providing the source-code (which you own the copyright to)
> > under GPLv3 on GitHub.
> >
> > Whether that works depends on what the requirements on your project
> > are re GPLv3 / Open-Sourceness.
>
> Note: You would also require a Contributor's License Agreement
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement) - as we do
> - ensuring that any contributions to your GPLv3 licensed source code
> assigns copyright to 'you' (or the copyright owner of the source base)
> so that you can continue to dual license.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: hard-to-use software

[pink via use-livecode]

This was a fun read.

I always try and make software with "advanced" layers and settings so that
it can be used simply right away, but you make it as complicated as you want
it to be. 





-
---
Greg (pink) Miller
mad, pink and dangerous to code
--
Sent from: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html

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Re: iOS 12 compatibility

[Randy Hengst via use-livecode]

Thank you for those details, Andrew.

BTW, the app I submitted last month was actually approved the same day I 
submitted it… but, the app wasn’t very complicated. Apple does seem to have 
stepped up the speed of the review process.

be well,
randy
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com



> On Sep 11, 2018, at 5:59 AM, Andrew Bell via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> From: Randy Hengst 
>> To: How to use LiveCode 
>> Subject: Re: iOS 12 compatibility
>> Message-ID: <0be15129-2652-43a4-aecc-00498689e...@mac.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> Hi Andrew,
>> 
>> What version of LC and Xcode combination did you use for your build?
>> 
>> be well,
>> randy
>> www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com
> 
> I had previously (for almost 2 years?) been using Xcode 8.2 on macOS 10.11.x 
> which worked with every version of LiveCode that was current or beta at the 
> time (including 9.0.1rc3). But when I went to submit to Apple, they rejected 
> the Xcode version I compiled against so I had to upgrade to 10.12.x so I 
> could use Xcode 9.2. Compiled with LC 9.0.1rc3 Business.
> 
> My initial submission (which got the metadata rejection) was reviewed in less 
> than 2 days. Looking at the current trend, I'll be waiting all week to get 
> this minor wording change approved according to http://appreviewtimes.com/ (a 
> GREAT little tool).
> 
> --Andrew Bell
> 
> 
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Re: iOS 12 compatibility

[Andrew Bell via use-livecode]

From: Randy Hengst 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Subject: Re: iOS 12 compatibility
Message-ID: <0be15129-2652-43a4-aecc-00498689e...@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

Hi Andrew,

What version of LC and Xcode combination did you use for your build?

be well,
randy
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com


I had previously (for almost 2 years?) been using Xcode 8.2 on macOS  
10.11.x which worked with every version of LiveCode that was current  
or beta at the time (including 9.0.1rc3). But when I went to submit to  
Apple, they rejected the Xcode version I compiled against so I had to  
upgrade to 10.12.x so I could use Xcode 9.2. Compiled with LC 9.0.1rc3  
Business.


My initial submission (which got the metadata rejection) was reviewed  
in less than 2 days. Looking at the current trend, I'll be waiting all  
week to get this minor wording change approved according to  
http://appreviewtimes.com/ (a GREAT little tool).


--Andrew Bell


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Re: Livecode's CEF Builds

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2018-09-11 07:32, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:

So, your binaries would actually be non-GPLv3 licensed; but you would
then be providing the source-code (which you own the copyright to)
under GPLv3 on GitHub.

Whether that works depends on what the requirements on your project
are re GPLv3 / Open-Sourceness.


Note: You would also require a Contributor's License Agreement 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement) - as we do 
- ensuring that any contributions to your GPLv3 licensed source code 
assigns copyright to 'you' (or the copyright owner of the source base) 
so that you can continue to dual license.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Livecode's CEF Builds

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2018-09-11 03:14, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:

To start with I think you need to ensure that building CEF with
proprietary codecs enabled does not include anything that has a
license that is incompatible with GPL 3. Otherwise you can’t
distribute your standalone with the modified CEF under the GPL 3. FWIW
I have built CEF with proprietary codecs and due to the complexity of
chromium I would still need to spend a few days reviewing code to know
exactly what was included when I did that. I do know there’s OpenH264
in there which is BSD licensed.


Indeed - building a definitely non-GPLv3 encumbered libcef might require 
a fair bit more digging around and tweaking of flags.



Then there’s whether the patents infringe on the GPL…  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Well the GPLv3 certainly has a patent clause - 
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.en.html - Section 11.


The first part seems quite clear - any contributor to a GPLv3 project 
automatically grants a 'patent license' to all recipients of the code 
for any patents they hold are are used by the code they contributed. 
i.e. If you own a patent, and make GPLv3 code available using it, then 
that code can be used freely (under GPLv3) terms.


My (IANAL) Interpretation: You can't release code under GPLv3 (as 
copyright holder and patent holder) which uses any patents you hold 
without also implicitly granting a license to use said patent as used by 
the code under GPLv3 terms.


The second part is less clear and is more applicable to this case. It 
sounds like if you knowingly convey a patent-encumbered GPLv3 code (even 
for patents you do not own) then you cannot both distribute the software 
under GPLv3, and allow restricted distribution of the project with a 
patent license - either you license for all potential recipients, or not 
at all.


My (IANAL) Interpretation: You cannot distribute *knowingly* 
patent-encumbered projects under GPLv3 in fashion where you license 
directly or indirectly the patents for some, but not for others.


e.g.

  1) I build a H264 player to which I do not own copyright for in 
entirety, and release the code under GPLv3 - this is fine, its just code 
- but no-one actually has the right to run it.


  2) I (or someone else) start distributing binaries of (1) without any 
patent license to anyone - this is fine GPLv3 wise, might not be fine 
MPEG LA patent license wise (if they count each person in receipt of a 
binary containing patent encumbered compiled code as a user).


  3) I (or someone else) offers (for a fee or not) some recipients of 
(2) the appropriate patent license - not fine GPLv3 wise as such 
licensing has to be for all, or for none, and probably not fine MPEG LA 
license wise as not all binaries are being licensed appropriately (again 
assuming MPEG LA license binaries in hands of users).


So a conservative interpretation would probably be that patents do not 
infringe on the GPLv3 per-se but, for all intents and purposes, GPLv3 
code which is encumbered by non-universally licensed/licensable patents 
can only ever be 'code only' and never run.


Methinks, avoiding knowingly patent-encumbered anything in LiveCode 
Community is probably the best thing to do :)



FWIW if you can satisfy yourself that you aren’t infringing the GPL
distributing the standalone with CEF built with proprietary codecs
enabled then you should just be able to add some notes about that to
include with your source like you would note that when distributed as
a standalone it includes the LiveCode engine and where to find the
source and build instructions for that etc… although again IANAL.


Apart from the issue of having a license to use the patent encumbered 
code - which is entirely orthogonal issue to licensing.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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