Re: "empty" background in printed pdf is actually grey

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

doc hawk wrote:

If I’m not missing something, it’s a bug in Livecode if it generates a 
pdf of
a field with no backgroundColor and false opaque for Sheffield, card, 
and stack.


I wonder if it's related to this mystery in the forums:

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8=33238


And as I mentioned, the “effective opaque” of the field reports as 
false.


There's an "effective opaque" property?  How does that work?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com
http://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: "empty" background in printed pdf is actually grey

[Jerry Jensen via use-livecode]

I have no clue about the intricacies involved, but as a crazy idea to throw 
out, could you make the source pdf transparent at put it -on top- of the one 
you generate?
.Jerry

> On Nov 2, 2019, at 2:24 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On Nov 1, 2019, at 5:42 PM, Mark mentioned,
> 
>> 
>> Is it possible to pick up the background color from the mouseColor or the 
>> backgroundColor or something and set the background color of the field to 
>> that? (and obviously forget the bit about setting the blendlevel)
> 
> The problem there is that there may be writing underneath my field in the 
> “source” pdf that I am “filling”, and I can’t obscure that.
> 
> Pdf can handle transparencies, and placing partially transparent images over 
> others.
> 
> If I’m not missing something, it’s a bug in Livecode if it generates a pdf of 
> a field with no backgroundColor and false opaque for Sheffield, card, and 
> stack.
> 
> And as I mentioned, the “effective opaque” of the field reports as false.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: "empty" background in printed pdf is actually grey

[doc hawk via use-livecode]

On Nov 1, 2019, at 5:42 PM, Mark mentioned,

> 
> Is it possible to pick up the background color from the mouseColor or the 
> backgroundColor or something and set the background color of the field to 
> that? (and obviously forget the bit about setting the blendlevel)

The problem there is that there may be writing underneath my field in the 
“source” pdf that I am “filling”, and I can’t obscure that.

Pdf can handle transparencies, and placing partially transparent images over 
others.

If I’m not missing something, it’s a bug in Livecode if it generates a pdf of a 
field with no backgroundColor and false opaque for Sheffield, card, and stack.

And as I mentioned, the “effective opaque” of the field reports as false.



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Re: generating a standalone in v9.x

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

This is all part of the breaking change.  Lock messsages is no longer used when 
closing/opening the stack.  What happens if you put the build test before the 
red dot?  Shouldn’t it never get there?

Thanks,
Brian
On Nov 2, 2019, 12:39 PM -0400, JJS via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Glad you discovered that :)
>
> Op 2-11-2019 om 02:48 schreef Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode:
> > Thanks, JJS.
> >
> > I had that code ion place from Bob's suggestion but ran into the (apparent) 
> > never-ending "Attaching Engine" state. **BUT** just now I discovered, as my 
> > eye glanced over at the app's script in the Editor, the standalone build 
> > had "re-started" my application and was "stalled" on a "red-dot" debug flag.
> >
> > I ALWAYS put a red-dot/debug flag in the "OpenCard" call so I can control 
> > whether I want the app to run or not when it initially loads into LC.
> >
> > Once I clicked on the  (continue) button of the editor, the standalone 
> > completed. REALLY? Whatever! Now that I know that "feature", I can live 
> > with it.. but I bet THAT characteristic *isn't* described in the release 
> > note(s).
> >
> > Thanks again for your help!
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:20:04 +0100
> > > From: JJS 
> > > To: Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode 
> > > Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
> > > Message-ID: 
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> > >
> > > What you need is described in the release notes from 9.x onwards
> > >
> > > Removing the command quit is not the solution
> > >
> > > use this, it is copied from the release notes:
> > >
> > > on closeStack
> > > if the environment is "development" and \
> > > there is a stack "revStandaloneProgress" and \
> > > the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then
> > > exit closeStack
> > > end if
> > > end closeStack
> > >
> > > i use it always and always works ok.
> > >
> > >
> > > Op 1-11-2019 om 18:44 schreef Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode:
> > > > Thanks Bob and Heather and also a thanks to Giovanni Cannizzaro.
> > > >
> > > > Giovanni had the minimal fix to just remove a "quit" from any 
> > > > "shutDownRequest".
> > > >
> > > > Heather from LC also offered the following code in a related situation 
> > > > to Giovanni's:
> > > > on closeStack
> > > > if the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then
> > > > exit closeStack
> > > > end if
> > > > end closeStack
> > > >
> > > > The simple fix of removing the "quit" actually allowed the standalone 
> > > > to generate a working
> > > executable... HOWEVER, now the build stops with a never-ending "Attaching 
> > > engine" spinner. I have to
> > > completely exit LC to stop the "unfinished" process.
> > > > I have tried inserting BOTH Heather's and Bob's suggestions but they do 
> > > > NOT resolve the "Attaching
> > > engine" issue.
> > > > Any suggestions?
> > > >
> > > > ps... LC business 8.1.10 still generated the standalone PERFECTLY... 
> > > > even with the v9 changes in the
> > > script. Glad I kept it around!!! NOT lovin' v9x much at all!
> > > >
> > > > Douglas Ruisaard
> > > > Trilogy Software
> > > > (250) 573-3935
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 22:12:17 +
> > > > > From: Bob Sneidar 
> > > > > To: How to use LiveCode 
> > > > > Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
> > > > > Message-ID: 
> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a set of commands that in certain scripts like opesStack and 
> > > > > closeStack that will check to
> > > > > see if the standalone builder is running, and then you can abort the 
> > > > > handler.
> > > > >
> > > > > The reason they do this is because your app could be doing anything 
> > > > > at the moment the standalone is
> > > > > being built. The standalone has to walk through every script to check 
> > > > > what add-ons or libraries you
> > > > > use so it can include them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's what I do. In the stackScript of the mainStack:
> > > > >
> > > > > on savingStandalone
> > > > > put true into gBuildingStandAlone
> > > > > end savingStandalone
> > > > >
> > > > > on standaloneSaved
> > > > > put false into gBuildingStandAlone
> > > > > end standaloneSaved
> > > > >
> > > > > Then in any openStack handler, either in the stack or card, I put 
> > > > > this:
> > > > >
> > > > > put the environment is "development" and \
> > > > > there is a stack "revStandaloneProgress" and \
> > > > > the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 into skipLogin
> > > > >
> > > > > if not skipLogin then
> > > > > --- code that borks your standalone building. For me it was calling a 
> > > > > login dialog as modal.
> > > > > end if
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob S
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Oct 31, 2019, at 14:50 , Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode 
> > > > > > 
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > I am having an issue with using "any" business version of 9 (9.04, 
> > > > > > 9.05, 9.5-32bit, 9.5-64bit) to
> > > > > generate a standalone output of 

Windows, Underlines and Printing

[Dan Friedman via use-livecode]

Greeting!

I have a field on a stack.  In that field is some text and one word is 
underlined.   If I print the card on a windows computer, the underline isn't 
printed.  If I print the card to PDF, the underline is printed.   I tried LC 
9.0.4 Indy, 9.5.0 Business and 9.5.1 rc1 Business.

Can anyone confirm?

-Dan


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Re: generating a standalone in v9.x

[JJS via use-livecode]

Glad you discovered that :)

Op 2-11-2019 om 02:48 schreef Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode:

Thanks, JJS.

I had that code ion place from Bob's suggestion but ran into the (apparent) never-ending "Attaching Engine" 
state.  **BUT** just now I discovered, as my eye glanced over at the app's script in the Editor, the standalone build 
had "re-started" my application and was "stalled" on a "red-dot" debug flag.

I ALWAYS put a red-dot/debug flag in the "OpenCard" call so I can control 
whether I want the app to run or not when it initially loads into LC.

Once I clicked on the  (continue) button of the editor, the standalone completed.  
REALLY?  Whatever!  Now that I know that "feature", I can live with it.. but I bet 
THAT characteristic *isn't* described in the release note(s).

Thanks again for your help!

Doug


Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:20:04 +0100
From: JJS 
To: Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode 
Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

What you need is described in the release notes from 9.x onwards

Removing the command quit is not the solution

use this, it is copied from the release notes:

on closeStack
if the environment is "development" and \
there is a stack "revStandaloneProgress" and \
the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then
exit closeStack
end if
end closeStack

i use it always and always works ok.


Op 1-11-2019 om 18:44 schreef Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode:

Thanks Bob and Heather and also a thanks to Giovanni Cannizzaro.

Giovanni had the minimal fix to just remove a "quit" from any "shutDownRequest".

Heather from LC also offered the following code in a related situation to 
Giovanni's:
on closeStack
if the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then
exit closeStack
end if
end closeStack

The simple fix of removing the "quit" actually allowed the standalone to 
generate a working

executable... HOWEVER, now the build stops with a never-ending "Attaching 
engine" spinner.  I have to
completely exit LC to stop the "unfinished" process.

I have tried inserting BOTH Heather's and Bob's suggestions but they do NOT resolve 
the "Attaching

engine" issue.

Any suggestions?

ps... LC business 8.1.10 still generated the standalone PERFECTLY... even with 
the v9 changes in the

script.  Glad I kept it around!!!  NOT lovin' v9x much at all!


Douglas Ruisaard
Trilogy Software
(250) 573-3935


Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 22:12:17 +
From: Bob Sneidar 
To: How to use LiveCode 
Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

There is a set of commands that in certain scripts like opesStack and 
closeStack that will check to
see if the standalone builder is running, and then you can abort the handler.

The reason they do this is because your app could be doing anything at the 
moment the standalone is
being built. The standalone has to walk through every script to check what 
add-ons or libraries you
use so it can include them.

Here's what I do. In the stackScript of the mainStack:

on savingStandalone
 put true into gBuildingStandAlone
end savingStandalone

on standaloneSaved
 put false into gBuildingStandAlone
end standaloneSaved

Then in any openStack handler, either in the stack or card, I put this:

 put the environment is "development" and \
   there is a stack "revStandaloneProgress" and \
   the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 into skipLogin

 if not skipLogin then
 --- code that borks your standalone building. For me it was calling a 
login dialog as modal.
 end if

Bob S



On Oct 31, 2019, at 14:50 , Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode 


wrote:

I am having an issue with using "any" business version of 9 (9.04, 9.05, 
9.5-32bit, 9.5-64bit) to

generate a standalone output of my application.  I am using Windows 7 
Enterprise SP1 and have tried
building the identical script (with the same result) on two different 
installations of said OS on

two

different machines.

LC business v 8.1.10 generates the standalone fine.

LC business version 9.0.5 (with IDENTICAL settings in the "Standalone Application 
Settings" as

used

in the v8.1.10 build) seems to crash LC  just at the point of "closing open 
stacks" at which point

all

things LC disappear from my desktop.  An appropriate "destination" directory 
for the standalone is
created as per the settings but it is completely empty.

The actual application runs fine in all LC business versions... it's just that 
I can't get the LC

v9.x to generated the standalone... and ... I can't find ANY error or log 
explaining what is

wrong!!

Is there such a log or audit which details the steps that LC is taking and 
possibly what the issue

is that it cannot resolve?  I have checked at the Administrators tools event 
logging provided by
Windows 7 ... but there is no corresponding event 

RE: generating a standalone in v9.x

[Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode]

 From: Douglas Ruisaard [mailto:do...@telus.net]
 Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2019 8:39 AM
 To: 'use-livecode@lists.runrev.com'
 Subject: RE: generating a standalone in v9.x
 
 Not to beat a dead horse, but I know this group loves details especially when 
the details reinforce a
 successful resolution of a problem.
 
 Of course, I'd love it if someone could substantiate and replicate my 
experience with LC v9 standalone
 build by putting a red-dot debug flag in their "openCard" handler... save the 
file with "Script Debug
 Mode" checked ... then try to build a standalone.
 
 You "should" find that the standalone gets to the "Attach engine" stage but 
never stops and that your
 code is now halted at the debug flag.
 
 Now here's the INTERESTING part... if, instead of telling the debugger to 
"continue/run" (e.g. via F5
 or the drop-down menu), you select the "STOP" command (shift-F5 or the 
drop-down), the standalone
 continues to "spin" and never stops.  If you do this you will have to 
stop/exit LC completely to make
 LC responsive again.  Generally, I usually *do* STOP the app at the debug line 
when I am modifying the
 code ... that's why, when this started to happen with V9, I didn't clue into 
why the standalone was
 NOT finishing.  At some point, instead, I "accidentally" pressed the 
RUN/CONTINUE icon when the
 "Attach Engine" window was spinning... and, wha-da-ya-know, the standalone 
finished!
 
 I fail to see why one of the (likely) final steps of the standalone builder 
actually "runs" the
 application *before* the standalone actually finishes... rather than just 
"re-load" it ... as all
 previous versions to v9 apparently did.
 
 Or, as the actual FINAL step, just *after* the standalone declares "Standalone 
application saved
 successfully".. THEN re-start the app ... if you must!
 
 
 Douglas Ruisaard
 Trilogy Software
 (250) 573-3935
 
 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Douglas Ruisaard [mailto:do...@telus.net]
> > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2019 6:49 PM
> > To: 'use-livecode@lists.runrev.com'
> > Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
> >
> > Thanks, JJS.
> >
> > I had that code ion place from Bob's suggestion but ran into the
> > (apparent) never-ending "Attaching Engine" state.  **BUT** just now I
> > discovered, as my eye glanced over at the app's script in the Editor,
> > the standalone build had "re-started" my application and was "stalled" on a 
> > "red-dot" debug flag.
> >
> > I ALWAYS put a red-dot/debug flag in the "OpenCard" call so I can
> > control whether I want the app to run or not when it initially loads into 
> > LC.
> >
> > Once I clicked on the  (continue) button of the editor, the standalone 
> > completed.  REALLY?
> > Whatever!  Now that I know that "feature", I can live with it.. but I
> > bet THAT characteristic *isn't* described in the release note(s).
> >
> > Thanks again for your help!
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:20:04 +0100
> > > From: JJS 
> > > To: Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode
> > > 
> > > Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
> > > Message-ID: 
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> > >
> > > What you need is described in the release notes from 9.x onwards
> > >
> > > Removing the command quit is not the solution
> > >
> > > use this, it is copied from the release notes:
> > >
> > > on closeStack
> > > if the environment is "development" and \ there is a stack
> > > "revStandaloneProgress" and \ the mode of stack
> > > "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then exit closeStack end if end
> > > closeStack
> > >
> > > i use it always and always works ok.
> > >
> > >
> > > Op 1-11-2019 om 18:44 schreef Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode:
> > > > Thanks Bob and Heather and also a thanks to Giovanni Cannizzaro.
> > > >
> > > > Giovanni had the minimal fix to just remove a "quit" from any 
> > > > "shutDownRequest".
> > > >
> > > > Heather from LC also offered the following code in a related situation 
> > > > to Giovanni's:
> > > > on closeStack
> > > > if the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then
> > > > exit closeStack
> > > > end if
> > > > end closeStack
> > > >
> > > > The simple fix of removing the "quit" actually allowed the
> > > > standalone to generate a working
> > > executable... HOWEVER, now the build stops with a never-ending
> > > "Attaching engine" spinner.  I have to completely exit LC to stop the 
> > > "unfinished" process.
> > > >
> > > > I have tried inserting BOTH Heather's and Bob's suggestions but
> > > > they do NOT resolve the "Attaching
> > > engine" issue.
> > > >
> > > > Any suggestions?
> > > >
> > > > ps... LC business 8.1.10 still generated the standalone PERFECTLY...
> > > > even with the v9 changes in the
> > > script.  Glad I kept it around!!!  NOT lovin' v9x much at all!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Douglas Ruisaard
> > > > Trilogy Software
> > > > (250) 573-3935
> > > >
> > > >> Date: Thu, 31 

RE: generating a standalone in v9.x

[Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I know this group loves details especially when 
the details reinforce a successful resolution of a problem.

Of course, I'd love it if someone could substantiate and replicate my 
experience with LC v9 standalone build by putting a red-dot debug flag in their 
"openCard" handler... save the file with "Script Debug Mode" checked ... then 
try to build a standalone.

You "should" find that the standalone gets to the "Attach engine" stage but 
never stops and that your code is now halted at the debug flag.

Now here's the INTERESTING part... if, instead of telling the debugger to 
"continue/run" (e.g. via F5 or the drop-down menu), you select the "STOP" 
command (shift-F5 or the drop-down), the standalone continues to "spin" and 
never stops.  If you do this you will have to stop/exit LC completely to make 
LC responsive again.  Generally, I usually *do* STOP the app at the debug line 
when I am modifying the code ... that's why, when this started to happen with 
V9, I didn't clue into why the standalone was NOT finishing.  At some point, 
instead, I "accidentally" pressed the RUN/CONTINUE icon when the "Attach 
Engine" window was spinning... and, wha-da-ya-know, the standalone finished!

I fail to see why one of the (likely) final steps of the standalone builder 
actually "runs" the application *before* the standalone actually finishes... 
rather than just "re-load" it ... as all previous versions to v9 apparently did.

Or, as the actual FINAL step, just *after* the standalone declares "Standalone 
application saved successfully".. THEN re-start the app ... if you must!


Douglas Ruisaard
Trilogy Software
(250) 573-3935


> -Original Message-
> From: Douglas Ruisaard [mailto:do...@telus.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2019 6:49 PM
> To: 'use-livecode@lists.runrev.com'
> Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
> 
> Thanks, JJS.
> 
> I had that code ion place from Bob's suggestion but ran into the (apparent) 
> never-ending "Attaching
> Engine" state.  **BUT** just now I discovered, as my eye glanced over at the 
> app's script in the
> Editor, the standalone build had "re-started" my application and was 
> "stalled" on a "red-dot" debug
> flag.
> 
> I ALWAYS put a red-dot/debug flag in the "OpenCard" call so I can control 
> whether I want the app to
> run or not when it initially loads into LC.
> 
> Once I clicked on the  (continue) button of the editor, the standalone 
> completed.  REALLY?
> Whatever!  Now that I know that "feature", I can live with it.. but I bet 
> THAT characteristic *isn't*
> described in the release note(s).
> 
> Thanks again for your help!
> 
> Doug
> 
> > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:20:04 +0100
> > From: JJS 
> > To: Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode 
> > Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
> > Message-ID: 
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >
> > What you need is described in the release notes from 9.x onwards
> >
> > Removing the command quit is not the solution
> >
> > use this, it is copied from the release notes:
> >
> > on closeStack
> > if the environment is "development" and \ there is a stack
> > "revStandaloneProgress" and \ the mode of stack
> > "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then exit closeStack end if end closeStack
> >
> > i use it always and always works ok.
> >
> >
> > Op 1-11-2019 om 18:44 schreef Douglas Ruisaard via use-livecode:
> > > Thanks Bob and Heather and also a thanks to Giovanni Cannizzaro.
> > >
> > > Giovanni had the minimal fix to just remove a "quit" from any 
> > > "shutDownRequest".
> > >
> > > Heather from LC also offered the following code in a related situation to 
> > > Giovanni's:
> > >   on closeStack
> > >   if the mode of stack "revStandaloneProgress" > 0 then
> > >   exit closeStack
> > >   end if
> > >   end closeStack
> > >
> > > The simple fix of removing the "quit" actually allowed the
> > > standalone to generate a working
> > executable... HOWEVER, now the build stops with a never-ending
> > "Attaching engine" spinner.  I have to completely exit LC to stop the 
> > "unfinished" process.
> > >
> > > I have tried inserting BOTH Heather's and Bob's suggestions but they
> > > do NOT resolve the "Attaching
> > engine" issue.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions?
> > >
> > > ps... LC business 8.1.10 still generated the standalone PERFECTLY...
> > > even with the v9 changes in the
> > script.  Glad I kept it around!!!  NOT lovin' v9x much at all!
> > >
> > >
> > > Douglas Ruisaard
> > > Trilogy Software
> > > (250) 573-3935
> > >
> > >> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 22:12:17 +
> > >> From: Bob Sneidar 
> > >> To: How to use LiveCode 
> > >> Subject: Re: generating a standalone in v9.x
> > >> Message-ID: 
> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >>
> > >> There is a set of commands that in certain scripts like opesStack
> > >> and closeStack that will check to see if the standalone builder is 
> > >> running, and then you can
> abort 

Re: "empty" background in printed pdf is actually grey

[Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode]

What happens when you set the opaque of group "oGrp" to false?



Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. wrote:


I’m printing each LC page with

set the backgroundColor of otCd to empty
set the opaque of group "oGrp" to true
set the blendlevel of group "oGrp" to 100
set the blendlevel of otCd to 100

print otCd from otTl to otBr into 18,18,576+18,756


Kind regards
Bernd

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Re: SSH and SCP in LiveCode

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Mr. Felker,

go figure!?

> Am 01.11.2019 um 17:21 schrieb Mike Felker via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hello group.
> 
> Just joined but long-time LiveCode user.
> I need SSH / SCP capability for LiveCode
> Anyone know how to use this (either the old external or by any other means)?
> I do not thing TSNet will help in this case.


> Thanks.
> 
> Mike
> 
> Rubidex - The Reliable Blockchain Company
> Mike Felker
> CTO Rubidex
> 813-810-3457
> 138 Whitaker Road, Suite A
> Lutz, FL 33549
> rubidex.net

Tired of playing "dead man" after not paying the rest of my last invoice 
from september last year? I'm still waiting...

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[Jjs via use-livecode]

Yes we watch it too, he is famous. I love when his son tries to speak dutch 
haha. Sometimes his brother is in the show, then you can hear some Drents which 
is different from normal dutch but not as hard as Fries that's a language on 
it's own.

Bob Sneidar via use-livecode  schreef op 1 
november 2019 23:34:08 CET:
>Dr. Pol is Dutch. I love that show. 
>
>Bob S
>
>
>> On Nov 1, 2019, at 15:31 , Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
> wrote:
>> 
>> we were very often in the Netherlands for vacation, so i seriously
>tried to learn Dutch.
>> But it ended that the Dutch better understood me when i spoke German
>or English instead of Dutch. ;)
>> 
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> 
>> free tools for Livecoders:
>
>
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Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?

[Jjs via use-livecode]

At least you tried ;) German and Dutch come have much similarities. In a 
previous job i had to drive to many German customers from Hamburg to Stuttgart 
(among was Porsche ausbildung-school) and lived for 5 years in Germany too. 
Near the border there are lots who understand dutch.

Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode  schreef op 1 
november 2019 23:31:26 CET:
>we were very often in the Netherlands for vacation, so i seriously
>tried to learn Dutch.
>But it ended that the Dutch better understood me when i spoke German or
>English instead of Dutch. ;)
>
>Matthias Rebbe
>
>free tools for Livecoders:
>InstaMaker 
>WinSignMaker Mac 
>
>> Am 01.11.2019 um 19:28 schrieb JJS via use-livecode
>mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
>> 
>> quote : I hate to learn another language. That is why I live in the
>United States. /quote
>> 
>> If we the Dutch go to Germany we talk German, if we go to France many
>of us not all talk French, if we go to other countries we talk mainly
>English.
>> 
>> If Germans or French come to our country we talk their language or
>english
>> 
>> Try to learn Dutch, if we had'nt sold New York to the Brittish you'd
>all talk Dutch
>> 
>> And partly thank God it happened or we'd all would listen to Dutch
>music today and most of it i can't stand :)
>> 
>> there was another point i wanted to make, but during typing i forgot.
>> 
>> 
>> Back on topic, Java or Kotlin is something i would want to try, but
>it's more difficult, although everyone says their language is so easy.
>Livecode is best to step in.
>> 
>> 
>> Op 1-11-2019 om 18:52 schreef dunbarx--- via use-livecode:
>>> I am with Richmond, mainly.
>>> I hate to learn another language. That is why I live in the United
>States.
>>> LC, if you introduce only a  handful or three of native words,
>controls and concepts, is accessible to anyone with a real desire to
>learn this sort of thing. Even a first grader; they just need more
>mentoring. Even someone who did not know they would like to build stuff
>in software.
>>> The trick is the engagement, to make it seem cool and fun.
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode
>mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>
>>> To: How to use LiveCode >
>>> Cc: Richmond Mathewson >
>>> Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2019 12:59 pm
>>> Subject: Re: Learning from scratch - any recommendations?
>>> 
>>> I have a radical disagreement with Scratch and its ilk as, while it
>does
>>> allow one to run up simple computer games, it does not let users see
>the
>>> "guts" of a program, and seems not to give children transferrable
>skill for
>>> non-block programming languages. I have successfully started kids
>from 9
>>> years old and upward on programming with both BBC BASIC and
>Livecode.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 6:00 PM kee nethery via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> wrote:
>>> 
 My recommendation is to have them start with scratch.mit.edu
> and spend a
 month making stuff with that language. Scratch is built for 1st
>graders to
 pick up and it is extremely satisfying as the starter language.
>They get
 exposed to all sorts of concepts, message passing, variables, flow
>control,
 multi-processing, it’s a great starter language. A month making
>stuff and
 then move to livecode.
 
 Kee
 
> On Nov 1, 2019, at 3:23 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> wrote:
> I was disappointed that I only got one reply to my query about LC
>as a
 platform for learning programming - I thought this was a big thing
>with
 quite a few people on this list, some of whom are actually
>educators. Since
 I’ve failed in this, can someone suggest a better way of getting an
>answer
 (e.g. forums, mother ship)?
> TIA
> 
> Graham
> 
> I wrote:
> 
>> I have been approached by one of my family to ask what would be
>the
 first steps for someone (a young adult) to enable them to enter the
>world
 of app design and programming. Obviously I need to ask more
>questions
 myself, such as whether this would be to get a job, or simply as an
 educational exercise, or maybe to provide a launchpad for a startup
>idea.
 However, even at this stage, of course my thoughts turned to
>LiveCode.
>> So my question to the community is, how would such a person start
>off -
 assuming they’re intelligent, very familiar with consumer-level
>technology
 such as smart phones, tablets, laptop computers for study etc. and
>social
 media, but probably have never seen or thought about what is
>involved in
 designing, implementing and publishing an app (I would just say “a
 program”, but that shows how old I