Re: Cross Platform Font Layout - current workarounds

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

It's hardly 'Code Once' then. You absolutely HAVE to write for each OS
specifically. Livecode DOES NOT pull up the slack and make it work
cross-platform identically as insinuated in their homepage.

Yet again, everyone happy to make excuses in accepting their fate to have
to do all the work twice. I might as well code it in Java, C# and Swift for
all the hassle I get in LC. It's laughable how excuses are made for them.

If LC is rendering it out, they must know, from experimentation, how each
system renders and compensate accordingly - in the engine. If I am feeding
it a ttf or whatever, and they are effectively creating an OS operating
within the given platform, they have better control over how things are
rendered at engine level.

If I do artwork in photoshop, Premier, After effects with text layers and
open it up in another platform, guess what?? It damn well looks identical
(as long as the font is installed)! Your excuses cut no mustard with me.
I've been doing this since the late 80's early 90's.

It negates having, in the standalone settings, the need to have checkboxes
for each platform like you can happily output for all in one go. I always,
still, to date, end up with a stack saved for windows, another for mac,
another for whatever else. It's soo stupid, otherwise, I end up with a
tonne of 'if platform() is "fecked up" then' conditions for every display
code I do! When I need to make an update, I end up having to go back over
what I've changed and copy-paste it into the other stacks as best I can
avoiding the differences for font height and placing changes and all the
other NON-CODE-ONCE discrepancies between the platforms. IT IS ABSOLUTELY
FALSE ADVERTISING!!! I'm effing SERIOUS! I've been lied to FAR TOO MUCH by
LC, and you guys just backing them up with really LAME excuses. I mean, do
any of you write multiplatform? How the eff do you manage to account for
and compensate for the display discrepancies (short of them being lame-ass
apps that layout in crappy 80s fashion, basically no better than the old
Hypercard style)?

It IS supposed to be the POINT of LC!

On the LC homepage:
One code base -- LiveCode is cross platform so you won’t have to write
extra code for each platform you deploy to. This avoids having to write
your app multiple times for multiple platforms saving you crucial developer
time.

EFF OFF!!! Total BS!! Saving me frikin time, my buttocks! I'm forever going
round in circles trying to work out what crappy workaround I have to use
this time because some feature on LC isn't functioning correctly, only to
find when attempting to put it up on the 'Quality' (yet another JOKE!)
bugzilla site, that it's a bug that has already existed for anything
between 4 to 15 friggin years.

UNACCEPTABLE!!

And, don't you dare say 'it's just the way it is' or 'the way it's always
been'. Unacceptable! Change the way it is! Put the way it's always been
behind us! MAKE IT EFFIN WORK!!

Seriously!
Sean Cole
*Pi Digital*

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 at 03:43, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On August 24, 2020 5:01:54 PM "Sean Cole \(Pi\) via use-livecode"
>  wrote:
>
> > The font IS embedded. Not a problem using the font itself. It is the same
> > physical font on the two platforms. That's not what I'm asking when you
> > read past paragraph one.
> >
> > HowTF do you get them to show up in the same 'fin place though (ie, the
> > pixel placement of the text itself, baseline, etc) from one platform to
> the
> > next?
>
> Mac and Windows have always rendered fonts differently, the font rendering
> is done by the OS. Talk to Apple, MicroSoft and Google about it (Android
> and iOS are each unique too.) The text will always start at the same place
> but will render differently from there depending on the OS. You may be
> able
> to adjust the baselines by tinkering with the textheight per platform. You
> will never exactly match the text wrap. In general I leave extra space in
> a
> field to accomodate Windows font rendering. Here's why:
>
>
> https://damieng.com/blog/2007/06/13/font-rendering-philosophies-of-windows-and-mac-os-x
>
>
> > Side note follow up:
> > put fontstyles("Arial",0) - Put that in Windows and Mac messagebox and
> get
> > two different results -- MIND BLOWN! It's 2020 people. This was solved
> back
> > in the 70's, wasn't it? Who's overcomplicating this?
>
> The various operating systems. LC asks the OS what fonts are available,
> and
> each OS returns its own interpretation of what it has (apparently Windows
> does more consolidation by font family than Mac.This is a disadvantage
> sometimes when you do need to know the font file name in order to set a
> specific style.) LC relies on the OS for a whole lot of its info and
> operations, which it passes on to us. It could hardly do otherwise,
> without
> writing its own OS.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
>
> __

Re: Basic question about behaviors

[Brian Milby via use-livecode]

Wouldn’t it just be “me”?  And “this me” should be the behavior object.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 24, 2020, at 11:19 PM, prothero--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have assigned a behavior to a button. The behavior button/source is on a 
> different stack. It works fine. But a click on a movie player, on the same 
> card, triggers the mouseUp handler in the behavior, which I don’t want to 
> happen. It seems odd that this would happen, but I need to fix it.
> 
> My solution is to test whether the target is the button, or something else. I 
> solved it by trapping the mouseUp message in a script on the player. However, 
> I was trying to figure out how to get the behavior to give me the 
> source/origin of the mouseUp message. I can get the name of the card using 
> “the owner” but can’t seem to find the right syntax to get the name of the 
> button that the behavior is attached to.
> 
> This is probably trivial, but I’d appreciate any help.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bill
> 
> William A. Prothero
> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
> 
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Basic question about behaviors

[prothero--- via use-livecode]

I have assigned a behavior to a button. The behavior button/source is on a 
different stack. It works fine. But a click on a movie player, on the same 
card, triggers the mouseUp handler in the behavior, which I don’t want to 
happen. It seems odd that this would happen, but I need to fix it.

My solution is to test whether the target is the button, or something else. I 
solved it by trapping the mouseUp message in a script on the player. However, I 
was trying to figure out how to get the behavior to give me the source/origin 
of the mouseUp message. I can get the name of the card using “the owner” but 
can’t seem to find the right syntax to get the name of the button that the 
behavior is attached to.

This is probably trivial, but I’d appreciate any help.

Thanks,
Bill

William A. Prothero
Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
http://earthlearningsolutions.org/

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Re: Cross Platform Font Layout - current workarounds

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On August 24, 2020 5:01:54 PM "Sean Cole \(Pi\) via use-livecode" 
 wrote:



The font IS embedded. Not a problem using the font itself. It is the same
physical font on the two platforms. That's not what I'm asking when you
read past paragraph one.

HowTF do you get them to show up in the same 'fin place though (ie, the
pixel placement of the text itself, baseline, etc) from one platform to the
next?


Mac and Windows have always rendered fonts differently, the font rendering 
is done by the OS. Talk to Apple, MicroSoft and Google about it (Android 
and iOS are each unique too.) The text will always start at the same place 
but will render differently from there depending on the OS. You may be able 
to adjust the baselines by tinkering with the textheight per platform. You 
will never exactly match the text wrap. In general I leave extra space in a 
field to accomodate Windows font rendering. Here's why:


https://damieng.com/blog/2007/06/13/font-rendering-philosophies-of-windows-and-mac-os-x



Side note follow up:
put fontstyles("Arial",0) - Put that in Windows and Mac messagebox and get
two different results -- MIND BLOWN! It's 2020 people. This was solved back
in the 70's, wasn't it? Who's overcomplicating this?


The various operating systems. LC asks the OS what fonts are available, and 
each OS returns its own interpretation of what it has (apparently Windows 
does more consolidation by font family than Mac.This is a disadvantage 
sometimes when you do need to know the font file name in order to set a 
specific style.) LC relies on the OS for a whole lot of its info and 
operations, which it passes on to us. It could hardly do otherwise, without 
writing its own OS.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



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Re: iOS app denied: AVAudioSession

[Dan Friedman via use-livecode]

Update...

Turns out, I was looking for the call for microphone consent in the wrong 
place.  I was looking at app launch, but it was appearing when using 
mergAVCamCreate.  So, I AM seeing the microphone consent even though I am not 
using the Microphone.   Here's what I'm doing:

on mouseUp  //a button on the card
mergAVAudioSessionSetCategory "ambient" //Added this, but still getting the 
microphone consent
mergAVRequestMediaAccess "video"
end mouseUp

on mergAVMediaAccess pType,pGranted
  if (pType = "video") and pGranted then
set the returnTo of stack "barcodeScanner-iOS" to the long id of me
open stack "barcodeScanner-iOS"
  end if
end mergAVMediaAccess

on preOpenStack  //stack "barcodeScanner-iOS"
  mergAVCamCreate
  mergAVCamSet "rect",the rect of btn "scannerRect"
  mergAVCamSet "visible",true
  mergAVCamStartBarcodeReader
end preOpenStack

Why would this bring up the microphone consent dialog?


Thank you!
-Dan
 

On 8/21/20, 8:53 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

On 2020-08-21 16:39, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote:
> Any thoughts?   Client is waiting for this post!

The only difference between 9.6.1-rc-1 and rc-2 was the removal of some 
no-longer-used references to an Ad SDK on Android. 9.6.1 was the same as 
9.6.1-rc-2 (except for version).

Apple update their review processes all the time, so it is possible they 
changed something between the two app submissions.

The most important question here is: Can you reproduce the request for 
microphone access which Apple observed?

If not, then you need to find out how they did and dispute the rejection 
- it could be human error on their side...

If you can, then it suggests that you might have some code buried 
somewhere setting the audio category - or use of the video camera is 
using a default category Apple doesn't like.

Make sure you aren't asking for a video camera with both audio and video 
- i.e. just audio only.

Failing that, there is mergAVAudioSessionSetCategory - you could try 
explicitly setting the category to "ambient" on startup.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Cross Platform Font Layout - current workarounds

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Sean Cole wrote:

> What is the current 'workaround' everyone is using when creating a
> cross-platform app to make sure that all text appears the same
> regardless of platform? Particularly between Windows and Mac for
> me at the moment.

Font metrics will differ between OSes because the underlying rendering 
method used by each OS is different.


Have you delivered cross-platform apps in which you found no difference 
at all?


The closest I can imagine might be PDF, achievable with some settings 
only by decomposing the font into the Postscript describing the page.


Even browsers, with their multi-million-dollar code bases and their 
mind-bending efforts to make things as uniform as practical across 
platforms, will evidence the difference in OS rendering subsystems.


If you've found anything that corrects for this, I would enjoy learning 
about it. I can't even imagine how such a thing would work, so I'd learn 
a lot.



> Also, side note, does anyone remember why we STILL have a discrepancy
> between fontnames() in Mac and Windows? Not only do the windows fonts
> show alphabetically and mac dramatically out of order, but also, the
> names themselves are screwed up...

My understanding is that it's the same as when getting a list of files 
in a directory, the names are returned in the order given to LC by the 
host OS.


The sort command can be used where sorting is needed.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Strange behavior between Mysql, MariaDB and SSL.

[Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode]

Dear livecode programmers,

For a few years we ran an internal app that accessed a MariaDB database 
(no PHP or LiveCode Server middleware, just a raw connection) using SSL.

The server running the database is old, so we moved to a new one.

The new one comes with a Mysql 8 Database instead of MariaDB and the SSL 
encryption suddenly stopped working.


The new MYSQL database has a working SSL encryption cert (Let's encrypt).

There are the tests:

*From the server:*

mysql> show variables like '%ssl%';
+++
| Variable_name      | Value                          |
+++
| have_openssl       | YES                            |
| have_ssl           | YES                            |
| mysqlx_ssl_ca      |                                |
| mysqlx_ssl_capath  |                                |
| mysqlx_ssl_cert    |                                |
| mysqlx_ssl_cipher  |                                |
| mysqlx_ssl_crl     |                                |
| mysqlx_ssl_crlpath |                                |
| mysqlx_ssl_key     |                                |
| ssl_ca             | /var/lib/mysql/pki/chain.pem   |
| ssl_capath         |                                |
| ssl_cert           | /var/lib/mysql/pki/cert.pem    |
| ssl_cipher         |                                |
| ssl_crl            |                                |
| ssl_crlpath        |                                |
| ssl_fips_mode      | OFF                            |
| ssl_key            | /var/lib/mysql/pki/privkey.pem |
+++
17 rows in set (0.00 sec)

*From a client forcing using SSL (from remote machine):*

MySQL [(none)]> show status like 'ssl_cipher';
+---++
| Variable_name | Value                  |
+---++
| Ssl_cipher    | TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 |
+---++

Server: Centos 8.0


This is the error I get: SSL connection error.


This is my livecode DB sequence connection (From a Livecode 9.5 Indy 
version).



   put revOpenDatabase("mysql", tserver, tDatabaseName, tuser, 
tpass,true,,,true) into tResult


   if tResult is a number then
  put tResult into gConnectionID

   else
  put empty into gConnectionID
  answer error "Upps, Cannot connect to the data base!, ¡Hay 
problemas!, Try it again: "& cr  & tResult

  exit to top
   end if

Do you know what can be the problem?


--

Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement

Heriberto Torrado
​Chief Technology Officer (CTO)
​Director de informática
Directeur informatique

*NetDreams S.C.*
http://www.networkdreams.net

 Address / Dirección / Adresse:​

*USA: *538 East 85th Street, #1C Manhattan NY, NY 10028 USA
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Spain / España


*Tel - Phone - Fax:*

Phone / Tel USA : +1 917 287 5644 / +1 646 596 8787
Phone / Tel Spain :+34 627 556 500 / + 34 91 063 74 48

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favor considera tu responsabilidad medioambiental antes de imprimir esta 
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Re: Cross Platform Font Layout - current workarounds

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Hi Richmond, buddy.

The font IS embedded. Not a problem using the font itself. It is the same
physical font on the two platforms. That's not what I'm asking when you
read past paragraph one.

HowTF do you get them to show up in the same 'fin place though (ie, the
pixel placement of the text itself, baseline, etc) from one platform to the
next?

Looking at the images and reading the request properly first before
commenting always helps. ;)

--

Side note follow up:
put fontstyles("Arial",0) - Put that in Windows and Mac messagebox and get
two different results -- MIND BLOWN! It's 2020 people. This was solved back
in the 70's, wasn't it? Who's overcomplicating this?

>From Livecode.com landing page:

Extremely Multiplatform Now with HTML5
> Create native applications for iOS, Android, Windows, Mac, Linux, Server &
> The Web all from the same code.
> Code once, deploy to billions of devices. LiveCode is a truly
> multi-platform programming tool with iOS, Android, Mac, Windows, Linux,
> Server & HTML5 deployment options.


'CODE ONCE!' (With a billion workarounds to make it display the same across
platforms).

Not exactly what it says on the tin, is it!?!

Sean Cole
*Pi Digital *

On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 22:38, Richmond via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> How about embedding your fonts in the standalone?
>
> On 24.08.20 23:49, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > What is the current 'workaround' everyone is using when creating a
> > cross-platform app to make sure that all text appears the same regardless
> > of platform? Particularly between Windows and Mac for me at the moment.
> >
> > My client provided the font they needed in line with their tv show brand.
> > They need the app to work both PC and Mac. It seems I have to manually go
> > through each field, button and widget and make sure they are laid out
> > properly. The left, right, center alignments don't always match and the
> > vertical position certainly never matches.
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/v50aj7uv06bh4d9/MacText.png?dl=0
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/pry5teqp89xzbun/PCText.png?dl=0
> >
> > (This dates all the way to bug 3076!! Pretty awesome to hold onto a bug
> > reported back in 2005 for something so basic. Kudos to LC for keeping on
> > top of it.)
> >
> > Also, side note, does anyone remember why we STILL have a discrepancy
> > between fontnames() in Mac and Windows? Not only do the windows fonts
> show
> > alphabetically and mac dramatically out of order, but also, the names
> > themselves are screwed up:
> >
> > 1. eg, Windows: Helvetica Neue
> > 2. Mac: Helvetica, Helvetica Bold, Helvetica Bold Oblique, Helvetica
> > Light, Helvetica Light Oblique, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica Neue Bold,
> > Helvetica Neue Bold Italic, Helvetica Neue Condensed Black,
> Helvetica Neue
> > Condensed Bold, Helvetica Neue Italic, Helvetica Neue Light,
> Helvetica Neue
> > Light Italic, Helvetica Neue Medium, Helvetica Neue Medium Italic,
> > Helvetica Neue Thin, Helvetica Neue Thin Italic, Helvetica Neue
> UltraLight,
> > Helvetica Neue UltraLight Italic, Helvetica Oblique
> >
> >
> > - eg. Windows: Arial, Arial Rounded MT, Arial Unicode MS
> > - Mac: Arial, Arial, Arial Black, Arial Bold, Arial Bold, Arial Bold
> > Italic, Arial Bold Italic, Arial Hebrew, Arial Hebrew Bold, Arial
> Hebrew
> > Light, Arial Hebrew Scholar, Arial Hebrew Scholar Bold, Arial Hebrew
> > Scholar Light, Arial Italic, Arial Italic, Arial Narrow, Arial
> Narrow Bold,
> > Arial Narrow Bold Italic, Arial Narrow Italic, Arial Rounded MT
> Bold, Arial
> > Unicode MS
> >
> > This is bonkers for a SDK that purports to make it 'Easy' to make
> > cross-platform apps.
> >
> > Thanks all
> >
> > Sean Cole
> > *Pi Digital *
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Re: Cross Platform Font Layout - current workarounds

[Richmond via use-livecode]

How about embedding your fonts in the standalone?

On 24.08.20 23:49, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:

Hi all,

What is the current 'workaround' everyone is using when creating a
cross-platform app to make sure that all text appears the same regardless
of platform? Particularly between Windows and Mac for me at the moment.

My client provided the font they needed in line with their tv show brand.
They need the app to work both PC and Mac. It seems I have to manually go
through each field, button and widget and make sure they are laid out
properly. The left, right, center alignments don't always match and the
vertical position certainly never matches.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v50aj7uv06bh4d9/MacText.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pry5teqp89xzbun/PCText.png?dl=0

(This dates all the way to bug 3076!! Pretty awesome to hold onto a bug
reported back in 2005 for something so basic. Kudos to LC for keeping on
top of it.)

Also, side note, does anyone remember why we STILL have a discrepancy
between fontnames() in Mac and Windows? Not only do the windows fonts show
alphabetically and mac dramatically out of order, but also, the names
themselves are screwed up:

1. eg, Windows: Helvetica Neue
2. Mac: Helvetica, Helvetica Bold, Helvetica Bold Oblique, Helvetica
Light, Helvetica Light Oblique, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica Neue Bold,
Helvetica Neue Bold Italic, Helvetica Neue Condensed Black, Helvetica Neue
Condensed Bold, Helvetica Neue Italic, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue
Light Italic, Helvetica Neue Medium, Helvetica Neue Medium Italic,
Helvetica Neue Thin, Helvetica Neue Thin Italic, Helvetica Neue UltraLight,
Helvetica Neue UltraLight Italic, Helvetica Oblique


- eg. Windows: Arial, Arial Rounded MT, Arial Unicode MS
- Mac: Arial, Arial, Arial Black, Arial Bold, Arial Bold, Arial Bold
Italic, Arial Bold Italic, Arial Hebrew, Arial Hebrew Bold, Arial Hebrew
Light, Arial Hebrew Scholar, Arial Hebrew Scholar Bold, Arial Hebrew
Scholar Light, Arial Italic, Arial Italic, Arial Narrow, Arial Narrow Bold,
Arial Narrow Bold Italic, Arial Narrow Italic, Arial Rounded MT Bold, Arial
Unicode MS

This is bonkers for a SDK that purports to make it 'Easy' to make
cross-platform apps.

Thanks all

Sean Cole
*Pi Digital *
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Cross Platform Font Layout - current workarounds

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

Hi all,

What is the current 'workaround' everyone is using when creating a
cross-platform app to make sure that all text appears the same regardless
of platform? Particularly between Windows and Mac for me at the moment.

My client provided the font they needed in line with their tv show brand.
They need the app to work both PC and Mac. It seems I have to manually go
through each field, button and widget and make sure they are laid out
properly. The left, right, center alignments don't always match and the
vertical position certainly never matches.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v50aj7uv06bh4d9/MacText.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pry5teqp89xzbun/PCText.png?dl=0

(This dates all the way to bug 3076!! Pretty awesome to hold onto a bug
reported back in 2005 for something so basic. Kudos to LC for keeping on
top of it.)

Also, side note, does anyone remember why we STILL have a discrepancy
between fontnames() in Mac and Windows? Not only do the windows fonts show
alphabetically and mac dramatically out of order, but also, the names
themselves are screwed up:

   1. eg, Windows: Helvetica Neue
   2. Mac: Helvetica, Helvetica Bold, Helvetica Bold Oblique, Helvetica
   Light, Helvetica Light Oblique, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica Neue Bold,
   Helvetica Neue Bold Italic, Helvetica Neue Condensed Black, Helvetica Neue
   Condensed Bold, Helvetica Neue Italic, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue
   Light Italic, Helvetica Neue Medium, Helvetica Neue Medium Italic,
   Helvetica Neue Thin, Helvetica Neue Thin Italic, Helvetica Neue UltraLight,
   Helvetica Neue UltraLight Italic, Helvetica Oblique


   - eg. Windows: Arial, Arial Rounded MT, Arial Unicode MS
   - Mac: Arial, Arial, Arial Black, Arial Bold, Arial Bold, Arial Bold
   Italic, Arial Bold Italic, Arial Hebrew, Arial Hebrew Bold, Arial Hebrew
   Light, Arial Hebrew Scholar, Arial Hebrew Scholar Bold, Arial Hebrew
   Scholar Light, Arial Italic, Arial Italic, Arial Narrow, Arial Narrow Bold,
   Arial Narrow Bold Italic, Arial Narrow Italic, Arial Rounded MT Bold, Arial
   Unicode MS

This is bonkers for a SDK that purports to make it 'Easy' to make
cross-platform apps.

Thanks all

Sean Cole
*Pi Digital *
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[ANN] This Week in LiveCode 236

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

Read issue #236 here: https://bit.ly/2FJ4yt5

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.


-- 
Panagiotis Merakos 
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps 
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