Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

I’m having trouble understanding this last message or how you got these 
results, but I guess you’re right about this topic being somewhat straying from 
LC. 
So, I want to say I really appreciate your help and ideas. I will continue to 
attempt to push back the frontiers of my ignorance.

Thanks and cheers,
Roger 

> On Sep 5, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> f you divide the circle in four equal parts using two diagonal lines, you 
> find that 25 percent of all points have a x-value of more than 70 percent of 
> the radius. Using 200 as radius, 25% of all points x > 141,42 (= 
> cos(45°)*200). But using your method only 60/400 = 15% of points have value x 
> greater than 141,42. So there ecertainly is a bias towards points in the 
> upper and lower quarter.
> 
> I have no idea why this bias isn't influencing your results. Maybe because 
> the second point is also influenced by this bias. But how?
> 
> I wonder whether it's okay to keep this discussion on the list. We are 
> straying far from matters LiveCode.

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Re: ANN: Zygodact 2.0.1 update available

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Ah well. If I weren't so indifferent I might have. :)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On September 5, 2020 10:34:47 AM Martin Koob via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Thanks for the update.

I must say Zydodact has the best preferences dialog I have ever seen.  You 
should patent this.


Martin

On Sep 4, 2020, at 3:23 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Zygodact is an easy way to add serial key registration to standalones. 
Version 2.0.1 is now available at no cost to currently registered users. 
There are many new features, so please read the revised documentation 
included with the download. Also, the most annoying bug has been fixed, and 
now pasting a serial key into the dialog no longer causes issues.


Interested people can read more about Zygodact here:


Registered users can download the latest version here:


Changes in Zygodact 2.0.1
* Signed and notarized app for Mac Gatekeeper
* Updated to 64-bit on Mac

Changes in Zygodact 2.0.0
* Supports a single custom character in a hex key. This allows an app to 
branch its feature set depending on which character is assigned.
* Added compatibility for Android standalones. Caveat: Due to Android OS 
limitations, Android use isn't as secure as the desktop version.
* Added compatibility with iOS. This should NOT be used for App Store 
submissions, where Apple will reject it, so it's probably of limited value. 
It only works if the script sends "zygodact" to the register stack after a 
short delay; 1 tick seems to be enough.
* Added compatibility with mobile platforms in the Generator stack in case 
you want to compile it into a standalone in order to create serial keys 
from a mobile device. This is not compatible with previous versions.
* Added an "Email key" button to the generator stack. Works on all 
platforms including mobile. It launches the default email app and puts the 
User Name and Serial Key into the body of an otherwise blank email. You 
must supply the To: address, subject, etc.
* Added email templates. If there is a folder named "templates" in the 
stack folder (or resources folder on mobile) the template is merged with 
the key code data for emailing. Added a version check on preOpenCard in the 
Setup app. If a newer version is available, Zygodact offers to go to the 
download page.
* Added a check to avoid overwriting a set of files to a folder where older 
files already exist.
* Fixed the bug where the Register button did not enable when pasting a 
serial key.

* Updated documentation. Please read for more details.

NOTE: New registration stacks created with version 2.0.1 are not compatible 
with older versions; that is, you can't replace the Register stack with a 
newer copy without also sending the user a new serial key. If this is a 
problem, please contact me privately.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

[Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode]

I am officially puzzled and out of my waters.

If you divide the circle in four equal parts using two diagonal lines, 
you find that 25 percent of all points have a x-value of more than 70 
percent of the radius. Using 200 as radius, 25% of all points x > 141,42 
(= cos(45°)*200). But using your method only 60/400 = 15% of points have 
value x greater than 141,42. So there ecertainly is a bias towards 
points in the upper and lower quarter.


I have no idea why this bias isn't influencing your results. Maybe 
because the second point is also influenced by this bias. But how?


I wonder whether it's okay to keep this discussion on the list. We are 
straying far from matters LiveCode.


Thomas


Am 05.09.2020 um 20:28 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode:

Aha, in prepping my code to send to you, I found an error! Now the Cartesian 
Coord code is consistent with the Polar Coord code producing a ratio of about 
⅓. Here is the code:

on mouseDown

getStuff

end mouseDown


local tR, tX0, tY0, txl, tX1, tY1, tconstL, tTotCount, tL, tLongCount, tLocA, 
tLocB


on getStuff

put item 1 of the loc of grc OuterCircle into tX0

put item 2 of the loc of grc OuterCircle into tY0

put the width of grc OuterCircle/2 into tR

put the left of grc outerCircle into tXl

put 2*tR*cos(Pi/6) into tconstL

put "" into tTotCount

put "" into tLongCount

emptyFlds

end getStuff


on mouseUp

lock screen

repeat 1

add 1 to tTotCount

PickApointA

PickApointB

set the points of grc theChord to tLocA, tLocB

GetLength tLocA, tLocB

end repeat

put tTotCount into fld "totcountFld"

put tLongCount/tTotCount into fld "RatioFld"

unlock screen

end mouseUp


on PickApointA

set the numberFormat to "#."

put tXl + random(400) into X

put sqrt(tR^2 - (X-tX0)^2) - tY0 into y

get random(2)

if it is 1 then put x, + y+2*tY0 into tLocA

else put x, - y into tLocA

end PickApointA


on PickApointB

set the numberFormat to "#."

put tXl + random(400) into X

put sqrt(tR^2 - (X-tX0)^2) - tY0 into y

get random(2)

if it is 1 then put x, + y+2*tY0 into tLocB

else put x, - y into tLocB

end PickApointB


on GetLength pLocA, pLocB

put item 1 of pLocA into PX1

put item 2 of pLocA into Py1

put item 1 of pLocB into PX2

put item 2 of pLocB into Py2

set the numberFormat to "#.0"

put (pX2- pX1)^2 + (pY2- pY1)^2 into Lsquared

put Sqrt(Lsquared) into tL

if tL > tconstL then add 1 to tLongCount ---

put tLongCount into fld "LongCountFld"

end GetLength


Thanks,
Roger



On Sep 5, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
 wrote:

„I am known for making many more mistakes than not!“
Aren‘t we all?
I guess using Cartesian coordinates for choosing points on a circle could 
produce some bias, though I have no clear idea how.
So, what is your code?

Thomas


Am 05.09.2020 um 19:15 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
:

I am known for making many more mistakes than not!


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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

Aha, in prepping my code to send to you, I found an error! Now the Cartesian 
Coord code is consistent with the Polar Coord code producing a ratio of about 
⅓. Here is the code:

on mouseDown

getStuff

end mouseDown


local tR, tX0, tY0, txl, tX1, tY1, tconstL, tTotCount, tL, tLongCount, tLocA, 
tLocB


on getStuff

put item 1 of the loc of grc OuterCircle into tX0

put item 2 of the loc of grc OuterCircle into tY0

put the width of grc OuterCircle/2 into tR

put the left of grc outerCircle into tXl

put 2*tR*cos(Pi/6) into tconstL

put "" into tTotCount

put "" into tLongCount

emptyFlds

end getStuff


on mouseUp

lock screen

repeat 1

add 1 to tTotCount

PickApointA

PickApointB

set the points of grc theChord to tLocA, tLocB

GetLength tLocA, tLocB

end repeat

put tTotCount into fld "totcountFld"

put tLongCount/tTotCount into fld "RatioFld"

unlock screen

end mouseUp


on PickApointA

set the numberFormat to "#."

put tXl + random(400) into X

put sqrt(tR^2 - (X-tX0)^2) - tY0 into y

get random(2)

if it is 1 then put x, + y+2*tY0 into tLocA

else put x, - y into tLocA

end PickApointA


on PickApointB

set the numberFormat to "#."

put tXl + random(400) into X

put sqrt(tR^2 - (X-tX0)^2) - tY0 into y

get random(2)

if it is 1 then put x, + y+2*tY0 into tLocB

else put x, - y into tLocB

end PickApointB


on GetLength pLocA, pLocB

put item 1 of pLocA into PX1

put item 2 of pLocA into Py1

put item 1 of pLocB into PX2

put item 2 of pLocB into Py2

set the numberFormat to "#.0"

put (pX2- pX1)^2 + (pY2- pY1)^2 into Lsquared

put Sqrt(Lsquared) into tL

if tL > tconstL then add 1 to tLongCount ---

put tLongCount into fld "LongCountFld"

end GetLength


Thanks,
Roger


> On Sep 5, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> „I am known for making many more mistakes than not!“
> Aren‘t we all?
> I guess using Cartesian coordinates for choosing points on a circle could 
> produce some bias, though I have no clear idea how.
> So, what is your code?
> 
> Thomas
> 
>> Am 05.09.2020 um 19:15 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> I am known for making many more mistakes than not!
> 
> 
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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

[Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode]

„I am known for making many more mistakes than not!“
Aren‘t we all?
I guess using Cartesian coordinates for choosing points on a circle could 
produce some bias, though I have no clear idea how.
So, what is your code?

Thomas

> Am 05.09.2020 um 19:15 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> I am known for making many more mistakes than not!


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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

You’re absolutely right. I should have been more careful in describing what I 
did:

In addition to your method, using polar coordinates, which results in a ratio 
of ⅓, I also did a random selection of 2 points on the circle in cartesian 
coordinates which produces the ½. Very curious! I am now wondering if I did the 
math right? I am known for making many more mistakes than not!

Roger



> On Sep 5, 2020, at 9:34 AM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> That is strange. Choosing two points „at random“ should give a ratio of 1/3. 
> 
> At least if you choose them by generating two random numbers between 0 and 
> 360 and use this numbers as angles between a fixed line connecting  the 
> centre (e.g. the x-axis) and the line between the centre and the chosen 
> point. 
> Something like (without access to any LiveCode)
> put Random(360) *pi / 180 into angle1. 
> put sin (angle1) * radius into p1y
> put cos (angle1) * radius into p1x
> That’s the method I would choose. 
> How do you choose the two points?
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 05.09.2020 um 17:11 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> My intent was not to suggest that math is “really’ broken in the Bertrand 
>> Paradox, but it did make me wonder what is going on. 
>> Enter LC. I built a simulation of your description where each of two points 
>> on a circle are randomly chosen. This kind of chord generation is 
>> consistently producing a ratio of about ½ which, of course, disagrees with 2 
>> of the methods in the BP, but is close to one of them. 
>> I don’t mean to promote controversy here . . . I am just having fun playing 
>> with this and wondering what is indeed going on???
>> Thanks for playing, Thomas.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
> On Sep 5, 2020, at 12:24 AM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
>>> Having had no contact with Bertrand Paradox except reading the Wikipedia 
>>> entries in English and German, my impression is that this is not a case of 
>>> broken math but a case of an ill-defined problem.
>>> Saying that a chord of a circle is chosen at random seems to imply that all 
>>> possible chords are chosen with the same probability. My interpretation 
>>> would be that all points on the circle have the same probability and also 
>>> every combination of two points have the same probability of being chosen. 
>>> Not all methods proposed by Bertrand fulfil this requirement.
>>> My interpretation may be wrong. But the fact that you need an 
>>> interpretation shows that a problem like this needs more clarification.
>>> Thomas
> Am 05.09.2020 um 04:40 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
> :
 Bertrand Paradox
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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

[Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode]

That is strange. Choosing two points „at random“ should give a ratio of 1/3. 

At least if you choose them by generating two random numbers between 0 and 360 
and use this numbers as angles between a fixed line connecting  the centre 
(e.g. the x-axis) and the line between the centre and the chosen point. 
Something like (without access to any LiveCode)
put Random(360) *pi / 180 into angle1. 
put sin (angle1) * radius into p1y
put cos (angle1) * radius into p1x
That’s the method I would choose. 
How do you choose the two points?

Thomas



> Am 05.09.2020 um 17:11 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> My intent was not to suggest that math is “really’ broken in the Bertrand 
> Paradox, but it did make me wonder what is going on. 
> Enter LC. I built a simulation of your description where each of two points 
> on a circle are randomly chosen. This kind of chord generation is 
> consistently producing a ratio of about ½ which, of course, disagrees with 2 
> of the methods in the BP, but is close to one of them. 
> I don’t mean to promote controversy here . . . I am just having fun playing 
> with this and wondering what is indeed going on???
> Thanks for playing, Thomas.
> 
> Roger
> 
 On Sep 5, 2020, at 12:24 AM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
  wrote:
>> Having had no contact with Bertrand Paradox except reading the Wikipedia 
>> entries in English and German, my impression is that this is not a case of 
>> broken math but a case of an ill-defined problem.
>> Saying that a chord of a circle is chosen at random seems to imply that all 
>> possible chords are chosen with the same probability. My interpretation 
>> would be that all points on the circle have the same probability and also 
>> every combination of two points have the same probability of being chosen. 
>> Not all methods proposed by Bertrand fulfil this requirement.
>> My interpretation may be wrong. But the fact that you need an interpretation 
>> shows that a problem like this needs more clarification.
>> Thomas
 Am 05.09.2020 um 04:40 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
 :
>>> Bertrand Paradox
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Re: ANN: Zygodact 2.0.1 update available

[Martin Koob via use-livecode]

Thanks for the update.

I must say Zydodact has the best preferences dialog I have ever seen.  You 
should patent this.

Martin

> On Sep 4, 2020, at 3:23 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Zygodact is an easy way to add serial key registration to standalones. 
> Version 2.0.1 is now available at no cost to currently registered users. 
> There are many new features, so please read the revised documentation 
> included with the download. Also, the most annoying bug has been fixed, and 
> now pasting a serial key into the dialog no longer causes issues.
> 
> Interested people can read more about Zygodact here:
> 
> 
> Registered users can download the latest version here:
> 
> 
> Changes in Zygodact 2.0.1
> * Signed and notarized app for Mac Gatekeeper
> * Updated to 64-bit on Mac
> 
> Changes in Zygodact 2.0.0
> * Supports a single custom character in a hex key. This allows an app to 
> branch its feature set depending on which character is assigned.
> * Added compatibility for Android standalones. Caveat: Due to Android OS 
> limitations, Android use isn't as secure as the desktop version.
> * Added compatibility with iOS. This should NOT be used for App Store 
> submissions, where Apple will reject it, so it's probably of limited value. 
> It only works if the script sends "zygodact" to the register stack after a 
> short delay; 1 tick seems to be enough.
> * Added compatibility with mobile platforms in the Generator stack in case 
> you want to compile it into a standalone in order to create serial keys from 
> a mobile device. This is not compatible with previous versions.
> * Added an "Email key" button to the generator stack. Works on all platforms 
> including mobile. It launches the default email app and puts the User Name 
> and Serial Key into the body of an otherwise blank email. You must supply the 
> To: address, subject, etc.
> * Added email templates. If there is a folder named "templates" in the stack 
> folder (or resources folder on mobile) the template is merged with the key 
> code data for emailing. Added a version check on preOpenCard in the Setup 
> app. If a newer version is available, Zygodact offers to go to the download 
> page.
> * Added a check to avoid overwriting a set of files to a folder where older 
> files already exist.
> * Fixed the bug where the Register button did not enable when pasting a 
> serial key.
> * Updated documentation. Please read for more details.
> 
> NOTE: New registration stacks created with version 2.0.1 are not compatible 
> with older versions; that is, you can't replace the Register stack with a 
> newer copy without also sending the user a new serial key. If this is a 
> problem, please contact me privately.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

[Roger Guay via use-livecode]

My intent was not to suggest that math is “really’ broken in the Bertrand 
Paradox, but it did make me wonder what is going on. 
Enter LC. I built a simulation of your description where each of two points on 
a circle are randomly chosen. This kind of chord generation is consistently 
producing a ratio of about ½ which, of course, disagrees with 2 of the methods 
in the BP, but is close to one of them. 
I don’t mean to promote controversy here . . . I am just having fun playing 
with this and wondering what is indeed going on???
Thanks for playing, Thomas.

Roger

> On Sep 5, 2020, at 12:24 AM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Having had no contact with Bertrand Paradox except reading the Wikipedia 
> entries in English and German, my impression is that this is not a case of 
> broken math but a case of an ill-defined problem.
> Saying that a chord of a circle is chosen at random seems to imply that all 
> possible chords are chosen with the same probability. My interpretation would 
> be that all points on the circle have the same probability and also every 
> combination of two points have the same probability of being chosen. Not all 
> methods proposed by Bertrand fulfil this requirement.
> My interpretation may be wrong. But the fact that you need an interpretation 
> shows that a problem like this needs more clarification.
> 
> Thomas
> 
>> Am 05.09.2020 um 04:40 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Bertrand Paradox
> 
> 
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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

[Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode]

Having had no contact with Bertrand Paradox except reading the Wikipedia 
entries in English and German, my impression is that this is not a case of 
broken math but a case of an ill-defined problem.
Saying that a chord of a circle is chosen at random seems to imply that all 
possible chords are chosen with the same probability. My interpretation would 
be that all points on the circle have the same probability and also every 
combination of two points have the same probability of being chosen. Not all 
methods proposed by Bertrand fulfil this requirement.
My interpretation may be wrong. But the fact that you need an interpretation 
shows that a problem like this needs more clarification.

Thomas

> Am 05.09.2020 um 04:40 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Bertrand Paradox


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