Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism
If Sean doesn’t like the product, he is certainly within his rights to cancel his subscription and cut off all associations. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 23, 2021, at 09:47, Richmond via use-livecode > wrote: > > I am revisiting Sean Cole's posting as some valuable feedback seems > to have got mixed up with some ridiculous claims: > > 1. "my opinion counts for nothing here" Well, Yes, there is a slight feeling > re that as there has been vrry little direct > feedback from LiveCode central. > > 2. "purchasing a 2-year licence for HTML5 with the promise that it would get > fixed" > > Yup: not very good at keeping promises. > > 3. "You guys put me in hospital more than once." Possibly one of the most > preposterous accusations I have > ever seen in my life. The reason someone ended up in hospital was because > they were ill: and it would be a tough, > tough call to demonstrate a causal effect from a piece of software to one's > physical/mental state. > > Actually a very cheap shot indeed which, of course, makes me want to go "Poo > Poo" to the other points he made. > > 4. "Asking people to fill out a survey will only cause more of your users to > become disappointed when 'their' extremely valid top 10 bugs get lost in > the flood of other people's, probably only based on how many remember the > same matching ones. When 'theirs' don't get fixed, it will only feed their > despondency." > > I tend to agree with that one. > > 5. messed up script editor: what is wrong with it? It certainly would be nice > to know as I have used LiveCode's script > editors for about 21 years with no obviosu problems at all. > > 6. messed up dictionary: not obviously: just the odd one or 2 things that > might be explained better. > > 7. messed up property inspector: not that I am aware of. > > Certainly in any type of attempt at constructive criticism those last 3 > points need to be elaborated on extensively. > > 8. "use your product for real-world stuff yourself and try to do it without > having to use workarounds!" > > Well: there's a blanket statement to out blanket statements. > > Is my Devawriter Pro (for wonky academics and bonkers yoga heads to type > stuff in dead Indian languages) > real-world stuff? Are the ESL-for-kiddies content reinforcement and delivery > standalones real-world stuff? > They both are insofar as they are used constantly: especially the latter, by > children who, oddly enough, > seem to be getting better at the aspects of English those standalones help > them reinforce. > > I suspect Sean Cole may turn his nose up at us "bottom-feeders" who use > LiveCode for what are, really, bloody > basic, humdrum requirements: but they do make one hell of a difference to the > learning experiences of a lot > of children. > > I am sorry to unearth this, but I do feel that this 'situation' that has > arisen has to be examined fully for some good > to come out of it. > > Richmond. > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: Priorities (was: Re: Stack with the same name loop)
On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 12:49 PM Richmond via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > What seems to come out of your interesting historical observations is > that HyperCard went "wrong" when people had to start paying for it. > I think it was a series of things that went wrong with HyperCard. Interestingly enough WINE (open source) and CodeWeavers (prop.) seem to > manage to co-exist and help each other successfully. > I can think of quite a few examples of successfully making use of "FreeWare" and Open Source Software and building successful commercial endeavors from them. Another example that comes to mind as I surf apps on my smart TV is the streaming media platform PLEX, which is available on just about every platform, Computers, TVs, Game Consoles, Mobile, that started as a fork of XMBC (XBox Media Center) now called KODI. In fact you could take that further. As I mentioned, the NeXT software that became modern macOS, was originally built with a freeware C compiler, GCC. I guess it's easy to forget these days that large swaths of modern computing / networking is built on top of ideas and work done by those that came before, much of it as "freeware", including various libraries such as, drawing / graphics FreeType, Cairo or more recently Skia, or things Konquer / WebKit, Chromium and PDFium, used by many a commercial software titles you may be using right now (not naming any names ;) ) I wonder how much benefit those freeware projects get in return? I believe the reason why WINE changed to LGPL license from a more liberal license in the early 2000s is because they didn't! Taking it much, much further, the entire Internet (ARPNET), with its nuclear attack proof decentralized networking, is (was?) a "freeware", thats creation was largely subsidized by UK and US tax payers (yes, thanks Al Gore, hah!). > > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: Priorities (was: Re: Stack with the same name loop)
What seems to come out of your interesting historical observations is that HyperCard went "wrong" when people had to start paying for it. There is obviously a lesson for today here. Interestingly enough WINE (open source) and CodeWeavers (prop.) seem to manage to co-exist and help each other successfully. On 23.10.21 19:02, Paul McClernan via use-livecode wrote: On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 11:56 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: I say the people at Livecode LTD. deserve all the recompense they can get, and by the way, we should be thankful to Steve Jobs who gave us Hypercard (and actually convinced Apple to give it away for free! This may be going slightly further off topic, but it's a subject I've recently become very interested in again, and so for the sake of accuracy I'd like to try to correct this... It was actually HyperCard creator Bill Atkinson that gave HyperCard (originally called WildCard) to Apple on the condition that they would give it away to users included free with Macintosh computers. According to Bill, Jobs was actually angry that Atkinson refused to leave Apple to join Jobs' new company NeXT. Bill wanted to finish HyperCard and so stayed at Apple. Meanwhile NeXT created Objective C / NeXTstep, AppKit, etc. (much of which is open source, still available as GNUStep, thanks to Roger Stallman requiring Jobs to do so to use his GCC compiler). That's stuff that became the basis for the modern macOS. In the late 80s the first, and more advanced, clone of HC, SuperCard showed up, but Apple didn’t sue, they had a working group to standardize HyperTalk compatible languages (commonly known as xTalk). Over at Apple HyperCard while financial troubles hit, HC was spun off to a new subsidiary Claris (now FileMaker Inc.), which re-released HC as seperate a commercial product, and then HC's popularity started to wane. Around the same time HC inspired “WebBrowsers” with JavaScript their Scripting language, came to be. Which further reduced HCs popularity. Eventually HC was returned to Apple Proper, but hitch was then going to be used for QuickTime Interactive features of QT 3.0, which didn’t happen due to a shift towards streaming movies over interactivity. When Jobs came back to Apple, allegedly Jobs didn’t like HyperCard because it had “Sculley’s Stink all over it” because Jobs blamed John Sculley for convincing Atkinson to stay at Apple, and so under Jobs, Apple stopped supporting HyperCard, leaving it to wither away and die. HyperCard’s early success popularity was in large part due to it being freely available and ubiquitous on Macintosh, not in spite of it. Of course Apple was (and much more so now) a large company that could afford to give away a product like that to add value to its platform. I like the idea that in some alternate universe timeline where Apple successfully made XTalk a widely used standardized language, interactive pages of information and interactive content is being driven by xTalk Script rather than HTML/CSS/JavaScript. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Mud slinging versus genuine criticism
I am revisiting Sean Cole's posting as some valuable feedback seems to have got mixed up with some ridiculous claims: 1. "my opinion counts for nothing here" Well, Yes, there is a slight feeling re that as there has been vrry little direct feedback from LiveCode central. 2. "purchasing a 2-year licence for HTML5 with the promise that it would get fixed" Yup: not very good at keeping promises. 3. "You guys put me in hospital more than once." Possibly one of the most preposterous accusations I have ever seen in my life. The reason someone ended up in hospital was because they were ill: and it would be a tough, tough call to demonstrate a causal effect from a piece of software to one's physical/mental state. Actually a very cheap shot indeed which, of course, makes me want to go "Poo Poo" to the other points he made. 4. "Asking people to fill out a survey will only cause more of your users to become disappointed when 'their' extremely valid top 10 bugs get lost in the flood of other people's, probably only based on how many remember the same matching ones. When 'theirs' don't get fixed, it will only feed their despondency." I tend to agree with that one. 5. messed up script editor: what is wrong with it? It certainly would be nice to know as I have used LiveCode's script editors for about 21 years with no obviosu problems at all. 6. messed up dictionary: not obviously: just the odd one or 2 things that might be explained better. 7. messed up property inspector: not that I am aware of. Certainly in any type of attempt at constructive criticism those last 3 points need to be elaborated on extensively. 8. "use your product for real-world stuff yourself and try to do it without having to use workarounds!" Well: there's a blanket statement to out blanket statements. Is my Devawriter Pro (for wonky academics and bonkers yoga heads to type stuff in dead Indian languages) real-world stuff? Are the ESL-for-kiddies content reinforcement and delivery standalones real-world stuff? They both are insofar as they are used constantly: especially the latter, by children who, oddly enough, seem to be getting better at the aspects of English those standalones help them reinforce. I suspect Sean Cole may turn his nose up at us "bottom-feeders" who use LiveCode for what are, really, bloody basic, humdrum requirements: but they do make one hell of a difference to the learning experiences of a lot of children. I am sorry to unearth this, but I do feel that this 'situation' that has arisen has to be examined fully for some good to come out of it. Richmond. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OT: Priorities (was: Re: Stack with the same name loop)
On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 11:56 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I say the people at Livecode LTD. deserve all the recompense they can get, > and by the way, we should be thankful to Steve Jobs who gave us Hypercard > (and actually convinced Apple to give it away for free! This may be going slightly further off topic, but it's a subject I've recently become very interested in again, and so for the sake of accuracy I'd like to try to correct this... It was actually HyperCard creator Bill Atkinson that gave HyperCard (originally called WildCard) to Apple on the condition that they would give it away to users included free with Macintosh computers. According to Bill, Jobs was actually angry that Atkinson refused to leave Apple to join Jobs' new company NeXT. Bill wanted to finish HyperCard and so stayed at Apple. Meanwhile NeXT created Objective C / NeXTstep, AppKit, etc. (much of which is open source, still available as GNUStep, thanks to Roger Stallman requiring Jobs to do so to use his GCC compiler). That's stuff that became the basis for the modern macOS. In the late 80s the first, and more advanced, clone of HC, SuperCard showed up, but Apple didn’t sue, they had a working group to standardize HyperTalk compatible languages (commonly known as xTalk). Over at Apple HyperCard while financial troubles hit, HC was spun off to a new subsidiary Claris (now FileMaker Inc.), which re-released HC as seperate a commercial product, and then HC's popularity started to wane. Around the same time HC inspired “WebBrowsers” with JavaScript their Scripting language, came to be. Which further reduced HCs popularity. Eventually HC was returned to Apple Proper, but hitch was then going to be used for QuickTime Interactive features of QT 3.0, which didn’t happen due to a shift towards streaming movies over interactivity. When Jobs came back to Apple, allegedly Jobs didn’t like HyperCard because it had “Sculley’s Stink all over it” because Jobs blamed John Sculley for convincing Atkinson to stay at Apple, and so under Jobs, Apple stopped supporting HyperCard, leaving it to wither away and die. HyperCard’s early success popularity was in large part due to it being freely available and ubiquitous on Macintosh, not in spite of it. Of course Apple was (and much more so now) a large company that could afford to give away a product like that to add value to its platform. I like the idea that in some alternate universe timeline where Apple successfully made XTalk a widely used standardized language, interactive pages of information and interactive content is being driven by xTalk Script rather than HTML/CSS/JavaScript. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
