Bernard:
> I'd contact the provider of the software but I've seen
> numerous messages saying he doesn't respond to emails that
> I thought I'd ask an existing user.
Hi Bernard. Hmmm...it sounds like someone out there in message-land is
suffering from a severe allergy to facts or insufficient
As I've (seriously) joked previously in my bug 21604 report that has
been referenced already in this thread:
Since Windows Defender is fairly unlikely to be the oh-so-sneaky culprit
when similar issues show up running the LC 9 Script Editor on the Mac
platform, :D therefore it's highly
JJS:
> Speed, what are we talking about? milliseconds?
> Overall i find it working great with enough speed.
> Microsoft will probably not be interested that LC
> will run slow due to their product.
It looks like your reply MIGHT be referencing more general LC 9 ENGINE
performance, an
Richard:
Curry, I haven't questioned your findings in the report.
On the contrary, I confirmed them.
Few of my customers use the LC Script Editor, so they
don't care about it. But they do use the software that
we ship to them.
Thanks Richard. Yes - I also do frequent training, so any IDE
Brian:
> I think I know the issue then... look at how often the pref file
> is written. Throttle/turn that off and see what happens.
> I was thinking that earlier today but those test results make me
> want to investigate that further.
Thanks Brian, fixing things up as usual!
Best wishes,
Richard:
> And now the issue has become doubly conflated.
> To review, there are two issues in this thread:
Yes, I happened to mention that initial conflation today BEFORE you did,
with some slight differences. Your post shadowed mine.
> With your addition, we now have a third concern
Jacqueline:
> I'm willing to bet that any slowdown in the SE not related to
> AV intervention is probably the new auto-complete features.
> I've turned most of them off and I see no speed decrease.
Thanks Jacqueline, very true - that's yet another separate SE
performance issue! Very good for
Richard:
> But writing files - damn! Now I understand what the reporters
> in the forums have been talking about.
LOL, great test to verify the impact, but it incredibly closely follows
my documented prediction on Dec 12:
> A relevant question on our side of the equation is whether LC
> is
Richard:
> Personally, I feel no driving need to try to take Mark
> Waddingham to school.
I have the utmost respect for Mark and his tremendous knowledge. And for
everyone else high or low for that matter. I don't play favorites or
tiptoe, I treat people the same. As the old saying goes, it
Brian:
> The file is saved regularly, but not at the interval that I thought.
One more hint - during symptoms, after making a new text selection with
the mouse (as opposed to just typing on a line) there was an especially
big delay before the field would be responsive again. To be
Richard:
> Everyone on the LC dev team is either a CS or advanced
> mathematics graduate.
> I'm more interested in those of us who do not hold a doctorate in CS
That's why I mentioned both - the same rules apply to everyone. Not just
in the LC world either. Math, physics, gravity, good or
Brian:
> I've looked into the pref save code and it isn't as bad as I thought.
That's good...maybe something a bit closer to the auto formatting and
replace features, and whatever organizes them?
Who knows, it could be something outside the SE that just happens to
interfere, I don't like
Howdy LiveCoders,
I'm very happy to see people succeeding, optimizing, and coming back and
LiveCoding. That's heartwarming.
But I'm making one of my rare appearances here, chiming in lest this
thread end while consisting only of celebrating extra work that was put
in to overcome
Bob:
> This is largely due to unicode support in everything,
> as I understand it.
Nope, I think that was more of a prior assumption going in, and held
onto despite test results to the contrary, than a conclusion derived
from testing. :)
Some tests were designed to rule out the effects of
Sorry Bob (not to single you out, on the contrary thanks for your reply
and sharing your experience) but just be aware I never not enter a
thread lightly, nor were my words hasty. This has been a situation years
in the making, with plenty of evidence behind it, and I've been many
years in
Ray:
> For some time now I've noticed a substantial slowdown in
> the script editor every time I upgrade to 8.X or 9.X.
If you're lucky, making adjustments (disabling real time protection mode
or whitelisting LC and its filetypes) to your Anti Virus (such as
Windows Defender) may alleviate
Terry:
> can’t get the simulator to run - it launches OK but LC throws an
> error part way through the test/build process.
> Unable to start simulator
I've seen that! Can't remember which fix is for which error, but the
handiest fix that I use most for Simulator is xCode's prefs: Command
Richard:
> Curry Kenworthy wrote:
>> What people need most in the Script Editor is to view and edit the
>> code itself smoothly, without jitters or delays
> Not hard to make one. A frontScript trapping the editScript message
> lets you do whatever you want.
It's interesting when we take a
Richard:
> 2. It ain't the field slowing us down.
> As far as I can tell, the LC field object is pretty
> responsive to input.
Agreed, vast majority of SE problems are not field problems. I spend a
lot of my time in fields and it's pleasant. Responsive in most cases.
> I'm one of the lucky
Richard:
>> This is why I do my daily work in the latest available build, and
>> encourage others to do the same.
Paul:
> I completely agree.
"Latest build" is a nice catchy meme, repeated fairly often but like
many memes very incomplete and therefore less effective at results, no
matter
Me:
>> install the latest build AND an older version
Richmond:
> That begs a question: which older version?
Chewed on this a bit, and I'm going to say LC 6.7 because:
A) LC 6.7.x versus latest build is still currently the best overall
comparison to find the most regressions.
B) We kinda
Paul:
> 2 opaque groups with show borders [...]
> Neither group seems to receive the mouseEnter messages.
I believe this is consistent with LC 6. Makes good sense for transparent
groups. A good case could be made either way for opaque ones.
(Card mousemove is another way to handle the tool
Also it may help to relate this back to our own language: what alignment
should be used consistently for English text? Left? Are you sure? :)
In fact it's also common enough to align center (title), right (date),
etc. Left is only the default. Each par (and even tab stops) must be
able to
Richard:
> Two very different scenarios. What you describe is what I often
> see Panos and others deliver in the course of resolving reports,
> identifying the source of origin of a bug.
And now three different scenarios! Not at all what I described.
> For us, if we encounter a bug all we
Richard:
> Testing in older versions is a nice-to-have.
> Testing in the version the team is currently working on
> is a must-have.
Catchy, but potentially self-defeating. This will catch the most obvious
bugs (and we already have that) but for regressions we need comparison,
and that
Brian:
> Looking at the beginning of the thread, I think what Richard
> meant initially is that if everyone always moved to the latest
> version (bonus for testing with RC and DP versions) then
> regressions would probably be spotted fairly quickly
Yes, using the latest LC version is, shall
Richmond:
> So, if one is a dedicated bug-hunter one has to, then, work one's
> way back through (potentially) an awful lot of versions of LC to
> pin down when that bug started manifesting itself.
Only if one is jumping down a rabbit hole! That's a completely different
matter, not related
Paul:
> When I paste in RTL text (Arabic for example)
> it is incorrectly Left aligned.
The Dictionary may take a little poetic license with textDirection
behavior; text renders inline per the rules, but I think par align is
still up to the coder. You could detect the Unicode block when
Paul:
> Is this an approach you have coded and used?
Yes. If you had some code using your mediaType getprop, such as:
if the mediaType of player 1 is "Video" then -- do something
It could become, for example (a minimal change):
if the mediaTypes of player 1 contains "Video" then -- do
Built-in "mediaTypes" property is pretty handy!
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/
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Sean:
> The likely method for a WP-like unlimited Un/Re-do is to work
> with chunks. It's going to be a major memory-whore for large text
> but the most practical, easy way.
And then there's the, um, NON-memory-whore approach. Always my fave.
(I'm picky like that when it comes to the whole
Tom:
> Can someone tell me if they have achieved a good scrolling
> and rendering performance of text fields.
When it comes to performance, LC text fields usually are not the
problem. Quite the reverse! Good field performance in general (desktop
and mobile) and no big trouble on Android
Paul:
> the move to unify OSX apps under sole Apple
> distributorship like iOS apps. Oh Joy!
Andre:
> Heck, what Apple is doing?!
Perhaps a very slight adjustment to the old motto:
"DON'T think different." Or else. :)
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom Software Development
"Better
Richmond:
> The frightening thing about this is that Microsoft produce a
> fairly shoddy product, and as Linux has signally failed to
> displace Microsoft from world dominator, it will become
> ever worse and shoddier without any healthy competition.
So the only scary thing about Apple doing
Who would have thought the old player to have had so much bugs in it?
Enough per square inch to rival a rowdy case of mange?
Makes me wanna hear somebody sing the blues ♫♪
Check out how many bug tracks are included! The bugs will play all
night, while you work around to get it right
Paul:
> I have a LiveCode Script (LCS) routine that attempts to
> follow industry common algorithms for guessing the encoding
> of a text file.
> It's performance can be slower than I would like.
Howdy,
Even though LC 9 is exceedingly slow on some operations -(cough, cough,
ahem, that's a
'Cuz I don't even plan to use a loop if it ain't strictly called for
What's that smell? Oh yeah, burning bytes. :)
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/
Dar:
> Is that different from a just plain crash?
Anyone trying to abstain from crash (e) could try the Edit Script
Save and Crash - it doesn't have as much crash in it as Crash Script
Edit and Crash.
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better
Paul:
> LiveCode thinks the mouse is about 30-40 pixels ABOVE where
> the mouse actual is.
I've seen something similar with the mouse clicking at an offset. Can't
recall the context at the moment, or whether any external stacks were
involved - but I'll let you know when I remember!
Best
Me:
Currently an i5 chip and 8 GB memory, 1 TB RAM.
Should have said:
Currently an i5 chip and 8 GB memory, 1 TB hard drive.
PS. When "debugging" your antivirus, system settings, and other software
to make your machine operate more smoothly, it's helpful to open the
Task Manager and
Bob:
> Since I do a lot of setup, I was saving the stack(s) multiple
> times just launching the app! And it was killing the performance.
Behold the antivirus. One more reason to code with care
This time it did you a favor; these habits add up to hurt Mac apps too.
Best wishes,
Curry
> No one is going to turn off their file AV
LOL - yes, but that would be entirely your idea, not mine.
As I said, yet another reason to code with care.
Saving a stack multiple times while launching is not a good habit. Bad
habits add up to hurt Mac apps too.
The AV did you a favor with
Wondering if this bug has already been reported?
I've seen a wonderful LC 9 IDE bug: sometimes the Script Editor window
seems to disassociate from the object being edited. Thus after this bug
is triggered, any typed script changes may not really be applied and
saved, although they are shown
Rick:
> Try writing a serious arcade game with LiveCode.
> Sorry but it just isn’t up to the task as it isn’t
> fast enough.
That contains both true and false elements.
True: LC is FAR too slow, and despite some progress lately in partially
getting back to where it was, still needs a serious
LC and Xcode are a wee bit particular which version. Bookmark this page:
https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/
This post regards the future of "the detailed files". I'm resurrecting
this thread to reply to a couple of very important statements after
helping to create a fairly fast, cross-platform tentative workaround
(still in testing, and I only mention this since the code was already
posted) for
Good topic.
I see that society has a lot of trouble from people worshiping at the
altar of emotion.
Emotion is very useful, but it's similar to a sensor - ideally
(functioning correctly) it raises awareness and provides additional
input about important things in your environment and in
Due to the untimely, or at least inconvenient, demise of an old
electronic friend (eSellerate) as a separate entity, I have migrated the
addon store to its parent company (Digital River) and updated the store
links on the livecodeaddons.com web site.
To commemorate this occasion and launch
William:
> where the programming effort to fix the funded bug will come from.
That's a very good que... - er, a good example of a reactionary and
blasphemous anti-bug question. I luvv buggs and perish the thought of
losing even a single precious one.
Actually we don't need to presume too
To banish Richmond, or to banish bugs? Which is the bigger problem?
Which is more directly responsible for the existence of this thread?
I would encourage looking at "net" bugs: bugs fixed, versus bugs
introduced or regressed, during a time period. In development there are
always bugs, and
For anyone truly interested in the original question of "Recommended
specs for Windows Development computer"
(... as opposed to any OS-partisan virtue signaling, or avoiding Windows
hardware, or maintaining a single computer as the rule, etc ...)
here's my take, from many years of often
I have a very humble proposal to move things forward in more positive
manner, and entirely eliminate ALL negativity.
1. Start a Society for the Sanctuary and Protection of Pitiful, Even If
Not Always Very Endangered, Bugs. If someone even notices a bug and
looks at it, some little
Robert:
> Have you tried to switch off messages before quit?
Yes - get angry and then quit with prejudice. Lock messages, unload
libraries, close stacks, etc, and really QUIT! :)
Also, consider an alternate approach to launching the second app, so
that shell doesn't keep your first app
Henry:
> Anyone know of a workaround for this?
Just be aware that many LC "lessons" are flawed. Don't believe
everything you read.
Beyond the bug, updating Windows menu only on its own mousedown is
already a failing strategy to begin with (bad instruction from "lesson")
because the user
That looks like a perfectly valid WTF file.
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/
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Touche! :)
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/
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Please visit this url
Craig:
> WTF has lost most of its bite due to simple continued usage
Then, to indulge your premise, which I agree is the trend in a great
many social and media circles (but not all) consider this:
So WTF is the continued point of using WTF? If it no longer has enough
shock value to raise
In your own case (Paul) luckily there is probably very little cause for
concern - because your files have other context available, allowing us
to either convert/confirm, or else entirely replace the most important
interval values. And I don't consider this difficult to tame
sufficiently for
> Not to forget SpreadLib. ;)
Since you mention it, SpreadLib is not forgotten at all! Proud that
SpreadLib was first, and is best, of its type. SpreadOut, especially,
has come a long way since last public release. Looking forward very much
to that update.
Most addons have progressed
Chiming in again since it dovetails with today's work:
Crashing bugs (and others) sometimes require a missing
factor/context/detail in the original real-world project that is tricky
to reproduce in independent test stacks. You have to compensate for that.
I filed this crasher today, but
... and many returns.
Best wishes,
Curry K.
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Howdy Graham,
This particular problem is ideally suited to a screen-sharing video
conference tutoring session, talking you through the process and solving
obstacles while you are hands-on. That could get you running in minutes
to a couple of hours, rather than days to weeks.
I would
Richmond:
> Thunderbird has recently started marking posts from the
> Use-list as junk.
Might be the click-bait subject lines lately. Seem to be coming from a
server in Bulgaria? :D j/k
> whether there is something that can be done
There are also Junk Settings in Account Settings (Tools
PS - Here are two word problems to view this type of algorithm in a
bigger context beyond just software UI. Not too scary or difficult; our
ancestors could solve similar problems, and so can kids in school.
Older problem:
You are in charge of preparing animal enclosures for a market. The
Richard:
> Exactly. Reducing the differences between runtime and development
> is a cornerstone of The xTalk Way.
[...]
> Suffice to say politely and succinctly: a decade later, LC for
> mobile remains half-baked compared to what it could be, compared
> to The xTalk Way that rests at the heart
This was reported by me and confirmed by LC last year:
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22107
(Shift-Tab is the most problematic example, since it doesn't have a
convenient shifted char. Menu defs seem glitchy, so we may need to file
additional reports but hoping this Shift bug
Pi:
> you make these statement but give no example code to show it. This
> is damned infuriating as it keeps us hunting around in the dark.
On the contrary, as I've mentioned and as you know, "SEVERAL people
immediately provided sample code." You were using sarcasm at the time to
walk back
Pi:
> I’m not sure this is what Curry was thinking of. What do you think
> he was eluding to. We’ve ‘known’ this for years now apparently.
I love the humor so far - well done, kind of like a skit/spoof of Fake
News flailing under the weight of Accurate Facts yet insistently
demanding more,
Pi:
> The only issue with using a field is you are limited to character
> data presentation only. You can’t put inline images, widgets,
> checkboxes, etc.
Mark:
> Now that's just patently not true. No problem with images:
> Set the imagesource of char x of field y of this card to tImageID
> How about we all chime in on what we are currently working on?
Like many who have been sick between all the flu and corona going
around, just working on getting well again. Managed to stay out of
hospital, but not much energy. Quiet is good
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom
Pi:
> Fields: Images, yes. Other objects, no. Working out which cell
> has been clicked, no.
> Is that ‘fake news’? If so, sad face. If not, still sad face.
Well, sorry but I have to say YES it's largely fake news! :D
I'm ill and no strength for an argument (and BTW it has been a fairly
We don't need to confuse people - it DOES cause damage, because readers
often trust confident/prolific statements without realizing which ones
are flawed, and they act upon bad information. It often falls to
consultants and trainers like myself to help individuals fix the
resulting problems
(I know that Paul understands tradeoffs very well, so he already knows
this, but for the benefit of others)
Maybe some concepts are so simple, people never take them seriously:
- You reap what you sow. You get the cake you bake.
- Comparisons: 1 < 2
- Complexity often reduces
Livecode 中文支持非常好。 您可以复制和粘贴。
อย่างไรก็ตามการตัดข้อความของ Livecode สำหรับภาษาไทยนั้นไม่ดีนัก
มันทำให้ตัวละครแตก
:)
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/
Michael:
> set the vScroll of fld 1 to (60 * the effective textHeight of fld 1)
> Clicking the button takes me to line 65, and when I set the
> list behaviour to true the button scrolls me to line 69
Bernd:
> turn "fixedLineHeight" on for the field
And subtract a line.
Because when scroll
Assistive tech is a wonderful thing, and yet even when that "compliancy"
is achieved, the effort is doomed to fall short of real-world needs for
many people.
That's because the "compliancy" designers tend to think in
all-or-nothing ideals - and the subset of opinions and studies popular
Rick:
> I have a couple of questions for you.
Thanks Rick! I do appreciate the concern. But in my post, your questions
were already either answered or otherwise addressed before you asked. I
anticipated them; I know what makes people tick! So I'll "re-answer"
partly by quoting myself.
Rick, I thanked you for your concern. I'll thank you once again. Your
questions were just a little bit off target, just like some of my
clicks; but that's OK. I heard you, and I responded to your actual
points. Here are my points again:
Ability is not all-or-nothing. We need to look at the
Peter:
> I’m currently working on adding accessibility to my text and
> media-heavy music application. In trying to find actual information
> about doing this in a way that is both “compliant” and also good UI—
> I find very little data online.
Nice project! For the standards side of it, I
Alex:
> You are quoting yourself without adequate context.
Ah yes, I'm trying to keep what I said a big secret, right? :)
Quite the reverse - I was drawing attention to my original post, which
is readily available in its entirety, which is typically what I suggest.
> The fuller version of
I would use binfile to a variable, rather than a custom prop.
I've seen LC 9 fields become unusable after reaching a certain # of
chars. I would trust LC 9 fields with 8 million chars - maybe not 80.
If users have a need to see what's going on, intentionally show them
what they need to
Klaus:
set the scroll of fld "fonts" to tLine*tTH + the height of fld "fonts"
set the hilitedlines of fld "fonts" to tLine
The test is invalid; the 2nd quoted line overrides the 1st.
Therefore you don't see the results of your scrolling code.
To debug your scroll calc, first comment out
Bob:
> If I drag drop on a tab field TAB, is there a way to tell which
> tab I dropped on? Probably not but it’s worth a shot.
Probably so...
... if we can define "tab field" and "tab field TAB"?
(I think I know what you're aiming for, but I'd rather be sure.)
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Klaus:
> oh, I really had no idea that setting the hilitedline will also
> scroll that line into view!? 8-)
> That makes my custom scrolling stuff completely obsolete.
Yep, LC does auto-scroll when you set hilitedline! Very handy.
I would say "redundant" in this case, rather than obsolete.
Stephen:
> Girls! Time to take this spat off list, please.
Ah good, belittling a gender! That helps. Otherwise agreed; I don't want
to see this either.
But as this was a very public attack on a very LC product, and strayed
from the facts, that didn't leave me much choice. Public
Like everything field and text related, this thread caught my eye! :)
One of my favorite areas of LiveCode, and also one of the areas I have
to actively keep an eye on since I rely on it a lot.
Here's an observation that might help in one way or another
David:
> http://adomain/
What if Windows users rarely printed things?
That hypothetical alternative world/dimension almost looks like part of
LiveCode's operating paradigm!
Windows print bugs don't seem to get much attention.
For example, LC cannot print a field that has vGrid turned on.
Times are hardly changing at all in substance, actually - this is
nothing but a superficial change of costumes in society's grand parade
of exquisite nonsense. Always a great pretense of love, always plenty of
real hate and prejudice. The thugs and their victims do change in every
Act of
Bruce:
> comment-out all the instances where I am using a libURL command
> or function, save as a standalone, and and see what happens.
Now you need to follow through on your diagnosis. It will not be
efficient to quickly abandon a sound diagnosis and search for something
else. People do
Richard:
> The simplest is to use unambiguous names
+1!
Alex:
> Is there an unambiguous name in this case ?
Use unambiguous SHORT names!
Alex:
> (i.e. A-R, not A-B-R)
+1!
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and
Alex:
> Using unambiguous short names prevents behaviour scripts
> that references child controls completely
Sure about that? (Option A)
> Inside A, there is a rect called "R" and also a group called "B"
> inside B there is a rect called "R"
Or put the "direct" R in a subgroup also. (Option
Bruce:
> However, when I saved the stack as a standalone
> the Abstract Report did not run.
> Abstract Report which takes a list of US patent numbers
> and downloads basic information about each
> I tried adding some “answer” alerts to try to find the bottleneck.
You are using a logical
Paul:
> we have several customer who have said
> they are upgrading to M1 laptops
Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be
popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.
(Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on
Indeed sad news - Hermann was a competent LC coder and contributor. I
enjoyed his comments.
Glad to hear HTML5 support is improving; it's time. Good potential.
Best wishes,
Curry Kenworthy
Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
Mark:
> It's actually OSX where CEF usage was
> dropped, not Windows.
Yep, it actually feels great to be a Windows-first LiveCoder.
Ironically, things "just work." In fact I'm doing a Windows app right
now, using - guess what - the Browser widget. Works a treat.
It's hard to overstate how
... to my friend and colleague Josh. Amazing coder (godlike skills),
generous with his knowledge, and highly available. Thanks Josh. Enjoy
your day, you earned it! ;)
Also,
LiveCoders: holiday greetings. May you give and receive the best gifts
this year. (Not the virulent dirty gift that
Bob:
> The promise of creating standalones and encrypted stacks
> containing code sounds promising, but there are caveats.
Just like anything else - you have to learn the ropes. First time at any
task can present some challenges. For those in the habit of encrypting
stacks, it comes more
Ben:
> What is the best way to structure a library these days?
Flashback to an interesting conversation, when LiveCode Ltd (or RunRev
Ltd) asked me, "what is a library?"
Not kidding; real question. It's like Newton Ltd asking you, "what is
gravity?"
That opened my eyes to how libraries
Me:
> I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year
Naturally, right after I post this, Apple makes headlines (again) for
doing something arbitrary and rather dim.
So an ethical and professional disclaimer:
I don't support self-contradictory and illogical policy,
any more than
JeeJeeStudio:
> One could ask him/her-self the question if it is still ethical to
> buy a reall Mac? Seeing the child-labor in their factories in China
> is still present.
I'm glad you went there! Thank you. I do ask myself, and the answer is
clear. Whether it's a Mac, or any other product.
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