Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

2017-04-14 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Of course we listen. We read what comes in here and on many other venues.
We just don¹t always agree or have time to respond on every point. As far
as the marketing goes, as with all these things we will test different
approaches over time.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 14/04/2017, 09:45, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>My interest is primarily for the .com site, and I'm comfortable sharing
>my opinion. Of course they have every right to their own decision too
>and I have the deepest respect for that. In my experience LiveCode is a
>company that does listen over time, so it's always interesting to have a
>discussion, whatever the venue and final result, always in a friendly
>spirit.



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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.6 RC-1

2017-07-11 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Is it something perhaps you could get used to?

We are working hard to attract new users to the platform. This has come up
again and again in user testing. This evening we tested this new handler
list on new users for the first time. It went over very well.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 11/07/2017, 23:05, "use-livecode on behalf of Matthias Rebbe via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>
>Matthias Rebbe
>+49 5741 31
>?matthiasrebbe.eu ?
>> 
>> 
>> A new feature in the script editor has been added, this is the ability
>>to
>> choose from a list of default handlers to add to the object script.
>
>I am not sure if i like this new handler list. At least at that place. I
>find it somehow disturbing. I am not sure if this is the correct
>expression.
>Is there a way to hide that list in the editor? Or is there a way to make
>at least the height of that list smaller?
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Re: Fat widgets

2017-07-08 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
I don¹t see why not:

on openStack
   -- Build widgets and libraries
   if the environment is "development" then
  _checkExtension _rootFolder() & "/extensions/com.library.folder.here"
-- insert any others here
end if

end openStack

--
-- Remove all the files with the extension pExtension in the
-- current directory
--
command _removeExtension pExtension
   get "find . -depth 1 -name " & quote & "*." & pExtension & quote && "
-exec rm {} \;"
   get shell(it)
end _removeExtension
--
-- _checkExtension pFolder
--
-- Proceed to build and install the extension in pFolder if need be
--
command _checkExtension pFolder
   local tOldFolder, tFiles
   local tExtensionFolder
   
   set the itemDel to slash
   
   put item -1 of pFolder into tExtensionFolder
   
   put the defaultFolder into tOldFolder
   set the defaultFolder to pFolder
   
   put the detailed files into tFiles
   
   set the itemDel to comma
   
   local tPackageTime, tLcbTime, tPackageName
   
   repeat for each line tFile in tFiles
  local tFilename
  put urlDecode(item 1 of tFile) into tFilename
  
  if tFilename ends with ".lce" then
 -- Get the last modification date of the package
 put item 5 of tFile into tPackageTime
 put urlDecode(tFilename) into tPackageName
 
  else if tFilename ends with ".lcb" then
 -- LCB file we want to check
 put item 5 of tFile into tLcbTime
  end if
   end repeat
   
   -- Guess the extension name from the folder - only take the
   -- first 4 segments, as orientabletext folder, for instance,
   -- also has the version appended to the widget name
   local tExtensionName
   set the itemDel to "."
   put item 1 to 4 of tExtensionFolder into tExtensionName
   
   if tPackageTime is empty or tPackagetime < tLcbTime or \
 tExtensionName is not among the lines of the loadedExtensions then
  -- Missing or outdated extension package, or extension not loaded
  updateMessage "Building and installing extension" && tExtensionFolder
  
  _removeExtension "lci"
  _removeExtension "lce"
  _removeExtension "lcm"
  _removeExtension "xml"
  
  -- Make sure to remove the extension beforehand, installation does
not
  -- work properly if the extension already exists
  revIDEDeveloperExtensionUninstall pFolder
  
  wait 500 milliseconds with messages
  
  revIDEDeveloperExtensionInstall pFolder
  
  load extension from file tPackageName
  
  -- Let the IDE load the extension
  wait 500 milliseconds with messages
   end if
   
   set the defaultFolder to tOldFolder
end _checkExtension

--
-- _rootFolder
--
-- Return the root folder of the application
--
function _rootFolder
   if the environment is "development" then
  set the itemDel to slash
  return item 1 to -3 of the filename of me
  
   else
  return specialFolderPath("engine")
   end if
end _rootFolder


Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 08/07/2017, 14:30, "use-livecode on behalf of Matthias Rebbe via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>Kevin,
>
>is it possible to get that script or is it not for the public?
>
>Regards,
>Matthias
>
>Matthias Rebbe
>+49 5741 31
>matthiasrebbe.eu 
>



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Re: Fat widgets

2017-07-08 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
I haven't encountered this because our widgets are a library. But - I'm 
guessing - you could try the revert command?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 8 Jul 2017, at 15:49, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thank you very much. :)
> 
> This makes it so much easier to test stacks between 8 and 9.
> 
> I had to make some adjustments, because the source of my extensions is stored 
> somewhere else and the updateMessage is also not present.
> I get the widget recompiled when i load the stack, but the widget in the 
> stack still does not show up correctly. I have to unload and reload the stack 
> again.
> Can i somehow refresh the stack w/o having to unload and load again?


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Re: Fat widgets

2017-07-08 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
What we do one one large project that uses widgets and moves between 8 and
9 is to automatically recompile them on startup using a script. The logic
is simple - if a try determines the widget library functions are not
running and available, uninstall the widget, recompile it and reinstall
it. Its pretty much instant to do that and its mean that (in this project
at least) we¹ve stopped thinking about this issue.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 08/07/2017, 11:22, "use-livecode on behalf of hh via use-livecode"
 wrote:

>This is the current situation:
>[*] A stack that contains a widget that is compiled with LC 8.1.5
>can not be used with any other LC version than LC 8.1.5,
>[*] A stack that contains a widget that is compiled with LC 9.0.0
>can not be used with any other LC version than LC 9.0.0
>
>Mark Waddingham did recently already post thoughts to that here (see
>below).
>
>Option (1) below is the build of "fat widgets" that contain several
>binaries,
>one for each currently valid widget format. Would be great, thus one
>could be
>"downward compatible" in LC 8/9.
>
>Is there any chance to enable such "fat widgets" in the short future?
>[And how is this solved for the current company-widgets (Clock etc.)?]
>
>> On Jun 16, 2017; 11:10 Mark wrote:
>> > [MatthiasRebbe wrote:] Mark,
>> > regarding to recompiling widget for newer LC version:
>> > If i use LC 8 and 9, do i have to recompile it every time i use the
>> > other version?
>> 
>> Right now - yes - the lcm (compiled LCB) formats are not compatible.
>> 
>> There are a couple of potential solutions:
>> 
>> 1) Make it so that multiple LCM versions can sit in the same extension.
>> We can package up the lcb toolchain for each version as a distinct
>> download to help with this.
>> 
>> 2) Have a plugin in the IDE which fetches a git repo containing a widget
>> (or widgets) and compiles them locally. lc-compile is really lightweight
>> and bundled into the IDE so doing this automatically is quite
>> straight-forward.
>> 
>> Case (1) would work for people wanting to distribute lce files which
>> people can just install on their machine. Case (2) is suitable
>> particularly for community widgets - it would mean that anyone
>> subscribing to a particular 'widget repo' could get updates as soon as
>> they are pushed by the maintainer.
>> 
>> I think it is worth doing (1) regardless - it is a simple matter of
>> having say 'module.8.lcm' and 'module.9.lcm' files. The 9 format is
>> unstable until we go GM, but the 8 format is now 'stable' - i.e. won't
>> change ever again.
>
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

2017-07-25 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Yes you can. I'm at a conference just now but hopefully someone knowledgable on 
our team can jump in with more info.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Jul 2017, at 13:07, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Kevin,
> 
> Can you have a structure similar to having multiple stacks controlled by an 
> LC engine?
> 
> I am really curious how you guys set that up? Using localstorage and cookies 
> are the only methods I know of for doing that in regular html5 with multiple 
> tabs/windows.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Go in window of stack works
>> 
>> You can download stacks just fine
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 25 Jul 2017, at 12:46, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It is 
>>> possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for 
>>> communicating between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to 
>>> use localstorage and storage events.
>>> 
>>> This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple stacks, 
>>> but it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot of work 
>>> to make something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in your 
>>> mouth.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or 
>>>> write to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and splash-stack 
>>>> approach might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks that are in 
>>>> RAM at any one time. Common images and icons are also stored in the 
>>>> standalone, which are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they are 
>>>> opened.
>>>> 
>>>> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack 
>>>> standalones.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access 
>>>>> many things that LC can access in the user's system.
>>>>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>>>>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>>>>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is 
>>>>> easily 10 times faster for me.
>>>>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>>>>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>>>>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around 
>>>>> that with datamaps.
>>>>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>>>>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is 
>>>>> not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to 
>>>>> spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully 
>>>>> slow bug fixes.
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some 
>>>>>> doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently 
>>>>>> possible and what is not?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads 
>>>>>> content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a 
>>>>>> networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many 
>>>>>> hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks 
>>>>>> held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>>>>> HyperActive Software   |

Re: HTML5 limitations?

2017-07-25 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Go in window of stack works

You can download stacks just fine

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Jul 2017, at 12:46, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It is 
> possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for communicating 
> between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to use localstorage 
> and storage events.
> 
> This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple stacks, 
> but it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot of work to 
> make something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in your mouth.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or write 
>> to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and splash-stack 
>> approach might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks that are in RAM 
>> at any one time. Common images and icons are also stored in the standalone, 
>> which are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they are opened.
>> 
>> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack 
>> standalones.
>> 
>>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many 
>>> things that LC can access in the user's system.
>>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is 
>>> easily 10 times faster for me.
>>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that 
>>> with datamaps.
>>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is 
>>> not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to 
>>> spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow 
>>> bug fixes.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
 On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some 
 doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently 
 possible and what is not?
 
 This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content 
 on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked 
 database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of 
 cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. 
 There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
 
 Thoughts?
 
 -- 
 Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
 HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
 
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
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Re: Feature Race: Pick Your Project

2017-07-05 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
I¹m not sure if its apathy or more likely just the holiday weekend. That
said...

I¹m sorry its taken so long to do Infinite LiveCode. As I¹ve said in my
keynote, in the comments section and on the blog, we wouldn¹t be funding a
new project if it that one wasn¹t in the last stages of being wrapped up.
Android has been mostly delivered and the other platforms and stretch
goals are a small piece now. We really have finally cracked this project,
getting it into a build is the last step.

The reality is that we now need to look at what we are doing next and what
is affordable. If we don¹t fund this project, the knock on effects for the
platform will be very significant. We¹re already a very small team that
punches well above our weight. We have the potential for a very bright
future with the rather amazing stuff that you can now do. Check out Ali¹s
blog post on Android and wait a few more days for more. We can build on
everything we¹ve just created and maintain the considerable momentum we
have built or we can shrink.


Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 05/07/2017, 18:24, "use-livecode on behalf of Dan Brown via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>The comments section on the pledge page gives a good insight as to why
>there may be a feeling of apathy towards this fundraiser
>
>The infinite livecode campaign from last year was not handled well in
>terms
>of communicating progress to the community, with questions about the
>sqlite
>library rewrite remaining unanswered
>
>On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Wow.  I'm surprised we aren't closer to getting this funded.  c'mon
>>y'all
>> let's get this funded!
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
>> use-livecode  wrote:
>>
>> > I had similar feelings, (I have taken almost every pitch to "pay in
>> > advance for X number of years for this discount or thatŠ ) so when we
>>get
>> > hit up again for development that one would hope would be just part of
>> the
>> > product road map, it does indeed seem odd. Even "advanced smooth
>> scrolling
>> > graphics" seems odd to be funding, since all this is doing is bring
>>the
>> LC
>> > mobile on parity with any other smooth flowing app.
>> >
>> > This is terribly obvious, but just to say it all again:
>> >
>> > Thinking about it, one has to appreciate the challenge the company
>>faces.
>> > Having gone open source, Livecode moves to a world where everyone and
>>his
>> > kid sister thinks programming is free. PHP, Javascript, python,
>> CSSŠpeople
>> > living in those world just don't pay for their tools.
>> >
>> > So if open source users are going up (which apparently they are)Š that
>> > doesn't help us (to say the obvious)
>> >
>> > If not enough of them are using LC to build products for sale to
>>support
>> > themselves, OR are not using the tools in-house inside Enterprise
>>(like
>> we
>> > do here, even though we are non -profit we do have software budgets)
>> where
>> > budgets are such that the ROI on paid license(s) is well worth it.
>>And it
>> > would be easy enough for some unscrupulous for-profit company to have
>>5
>> > coders on community and only one license and pretty much get away with
>> > itŠ(which is cheating of course)Š
>> >
>> > So  If the user "pie" of those whose are paying  <> equal $ to support
>> the
>> > company and + hours for features, how does LC handle this, to stay
>>alive?
>> >  And we all want it to stay aliveŠright?
>> >
>> > I was hoping to talk to Kevin about some other ideas for solutionsŠ
>>but
>> he
>> > is busy. Perhaps I need to fly to Scotland for tea. In the meantime, I
>> > voted/pledged for the DataGrid2/GraphicsUpgrade.
>> >
>> > Brahmanathaswamai
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 6/24/17, 7:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Alex Tweedly via
>> > use-livecode" > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > So the Feature Race lets me choose between "Hosting debugger" and
>> > Datagrid 2.
>> >
>> > Hmpphhh!
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > I have a hard time voting for, or funding, Hosting debugger. I
>> already
>> > paid for that, back in 2009.
>> >
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>and did a little diving.
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Kognition Beta Test - call for volunteers

2017-04-28 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Hi Everyone,

A slightly unusual post from me today. For those of you that don¹t know,
LiveCode has been working in partnership with a new company as a joint
venture, to build an app to help manage information. We have built a system
that uses artificial intelligence techniques to help organize, sort and work
with documents. While this is an entirely separate company, the app has been
built in LiveCode (and utilizes a wide range of other technologies too).

Kognition is intended to help you manage the increasing volumes of
information that you create or receive, as well as being a tool to help
researchers conduct research or businesses to collect and analyze
information such as customer enquiries or bug reports. It presents an
artificially intelligent front-end that lets you relate documents together,
as well as organize, cluster and discover information in the relationships.
For example, if you are working on a project and receive an email with an
attachment, it can show you what other documents on your hard drive relate
to that attachment or are relevant to the project. If you have a customer
enquiry asking for a particular feature you can explore all the other
questions to find out how many others are asking about similar topics. The
system goes far beyond simple keyword analysis, for example it can relate
documents together that do not have the same words in them.

Today we have our very first beta available. Its a private beta, so if you
are interested in trying it out please drop me a note off list. Please
include a very short description of your company or you together with what
you might potentially use the system for. The first beta is Mac only and
requires a recent, high-end machine. Subsequent betas will extend to other
platforms and reduce system requirements. If you don¹t have a high end Mac
available today but are still interested, let me know and I can still send
you the videos to look at and include you in subsequent betas. Thanks in
advance for your interest.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps


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Re: Preference for Keeping Saved Empty Button Scripts Empty

2017-06-20 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Sooner would have been better. However just in case you missed it, the
architecture has been available to play with for many months and a native
field for Android is doable in 9-dp-7 posted last week. You have to change
a few words in Ali¹s native button LCB file - he explained which ones in
his talk. We¹ll follow with a blog post on that too shortly. There is a
widget course available https://livecode.com/topic/introduction-2/ now
which covers getting started with widgets. We will add in the info about
the FFI layer to that course shortly. We will also modify the object Ali
supplied to cover a whole variety of other native controls from the tools
palette given each is just a tweak to that LCB. Its all in there and open
source right now. Objective-C (and thus iOS) will be in DP 8.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 20/06/2017, 16:13, "use-livecode on behalf of Andrew Bell via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>I'd have a little more faith in crowd funding app features if the
>Native Field Object that I contributed for a year ago was available.
>
>https://livecode.com/project/infinite-livecode-native-field-object/
>
>--Andrew Bell
>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:57:30 -0400
>> From: Mike Kerner 
>> To: How to use LiveCode 
>> Subject: Re: Preference for Keeping Saved Empty Button Scripts Empty
>> Message-ID:
>>  
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> and another case where we should have a little crowd fund setup.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> > On Jun 19, 2017, at 12:49 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Right, but every time you open the script and then close it again, it
>>> keeps asking if you want to save the default. It gets irritating.
>>> >
>>> > I sometimes just replace the default entry with a single space and
>>>save
>>> it that way. Then it doesn't ask me again.
>>> >
>>> > I wouldn't mind a preference to turn off the default scripts.
>>> > --
>>> > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>> > HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>>
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: Datagrid 2

2017-12-05 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
I gave a demo of the progress on it in the last LCG. Its still on track
for completion in the last DP before Christmas.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 05/12/2017, 18:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Tom Glod via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>Hi folks, I'm bidding on a project and would like to get a sense as to the
>eta of datagrid 2 especially on mobile. I would love to buy a LC Indy
>License and do the job.
>
>During Campaign the eta was oct/november, but i get they are just
>estimates.  Is there a more up to date eta?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tom
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Re: URGENT: MergGoogle no longer works on iOS: CLIENTS VERY UNHAPPY

2018-05-02 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Hi Sean,

I¹m very sorry to hear your demo went wrong today.

If its any consolation I¹ve been there and probably most of us have been
in that situation at some point in our careers. Even Steve Jobs had the
occasional demo that didn¹t work out! How you recover from that situation
is probably more important than the fact that it happened. Most customers
and clients understand that tech demos are fraught with potential issues
and will accept that if you can keep a level head and talk to them. One of
the techniques I have for doing demos - in common with many in this
industry - is to practice the whole thing 3 times the day before from
beginning to end. As this change occurred 20th April that would have given
us a few hours to respond Š rather than it being ³too late² now.

Could we have done a better job here? Possibly. We have hundreds and
hundreds of components in LiveCode and we generally try to maintain
compatibility within a couple of weeks of major upgrades and changes. For
whatever reason this change wasn¹t flagged by the processes we use to stay
on top here - and as a result we can review that process going forward. At
present Monte is asleep - yes even he needs sleep sometimes - and as he
wrote this component we really need him to chime in here and take a look
at what needs to be updated.

Generally its faster post to support than this list, though we do require
a support contract in place to help you. Nonetheless given how important
this is for you we will look at this issue when Monte gets up.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself




On 02/05/2018, 15:27, "use-livecode on behalf of Andre Garzia via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>Sean,
>
>Do you have a support package? They don't monitor this list close, it
>might
>be better to call them over the phone while sending a direct email to
>Heather. At least this is somewhat fixable on their side. I remember when
>I
>lost a ton of money when Apple decided that only Obj-C/Cocoa apps would be
>allowed on the store at the same time I was supposed to deliver a project.
>
>This kind of setback happens to everyone in the long run when we're using
>APIs outside our control. My advise would be to ping RunRev directly while
>calling the client, explaining that google deprecated a technology used in
>the project and thus it requires an extension.
>
>On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
>use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> It's all too late now. I'm walking with egg on my face. No response
>>from LC
>> still. despite being marked as urgent. To use the browser widget I would
>> have had to write the whole wrapper from scratch rather than use merg
>> dependance. If it had been written properly in the first place it would
>>not
>> have been an issue. Had it had a warning on it (and not suppressed) I
>>would
>> have been aware. Now my life is over. Worst Day Ever! Miserable. Rained
>>on
>> and soaked through. Insurance doesn't cover for events like this and not
>> one person at LC or on here will be able to help me out of this hole. I
>> guess this is goodbye.
>>
>> Sean Cole
>> *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
>> www.pidigital.co.uk
>> +44(1634)402193
>> +44(7702)116447
>> 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is
>>no
>> box!'
>> 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside
>>of,
>> but it is yourself!'
>>
>> eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
>> Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
>>
>> On 2 May 2018 at 15:00, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I wonder if using the browser widget would be a temporary workaround
>>so
>> > that you get the flow the way google is asking for it.
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 9:38 AM Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
>> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > If he had then it would also be in 8.1.10 or 8.2 (but it is not).
>>v9 is
>> > > basically still a beta (a GM beta!) as is incredibly buggy and
>> virtually
>> > > unusable for client projects. I wouldn't dare touch it yet till it
>>is
>> > > actually fully operational.
>> > >
>> > > Sean Cole
>> > > *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
>> > > www.pidigital.co.uk
>> > > +44(1634)402193
>> > > +44(7702)116447
>> > > 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There
>>is
>> no
>> > > box!'
>> > > 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look
>>outside
>> > of,
>> > > but it is yourself!'
>> > >
>> > > eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
>> > > Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
>> > >
>> > > On 2 May 2018 at 14:28, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
>> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi Sean,
>> > > >
>> > > > I feel your pain 

Re: Livecode.com server down

2018-02-15 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Unfortunately we¹ve been the subject of a spate of sustained, intensive
hacking attempts. We had a series of incidents the other week and the last
couple of days has been a new round of attempts from a different angle.
We¹ve fought them off yet again, but some of our team are very tired.
Heather for one was up half the night. The systems are well designed and
no customer data has been affected.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 15/02/2018, 07:57, "use-livecode on behalf of Dave Kilroy via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>What Heather told me the last time this happened was to:
>
>a) disconnect your development machine from the internet
>b) launch LiveCode (it opens in offline mode)
>c) reconnect your development machine to the internet
>d) continue making awesome apps with LC
>
>
>
>-
>"The first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes
>the other 90% of the time."
>Peter M. Brigham 
>--
>Sent from: 
>http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.htm
>l
>
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Re: LiveCode Widget Factory

2018-02-23 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
In my LiveCode Global team report in January.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 22/02/2018, 15:42, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>Todd Fabacher wrote:
>
> > As Kevin announced before...
>
>Where was this announced?
>
>-- 
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>
>
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Re: Digital Pomegranate

2018-04-23 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Man that sounds rough. I hope things become ok over there.

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself




On 23/04/2018, 12:11, "use-livecode on behalf of Todd Fabacher via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>There are few moments in life that are more important than business and
>coding, this is one of them. All of Digital Pomegranate is our on the
>street rejecting the former president who had grabbed power after his term
>limits and has become a dictator in the former Soviet country. As you
>would
>expect, lots of arrests and the hospitals are full. Let's just hope they
>don't start shooting as have threatened to do.
>
>This has been going on for 10 days now and will continue. It is now
>starting to hit the nightly news cycle, so you will see it in the next few
>days. The internet has been on and off and now the entire company is on
>the
>streets asking for a free election and better government, so we will not
>be
>providing support for our new widgets for a few days.
>
>https://www.rferl.org/a/armenia-fresh-protests-sarkisian-yerevan-pashinian
>/29186416.html
>
>--Todd Fabacher
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Re: Livecloud Bundle Offer

2019-04-28 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Hi folks,

I¹m glad there is excitement about this offer.

However a little note of caution. At various points we make offers that
target specific groups for all sorts of reasons. For example, we might
offer a bundle to someone who has been on our mailing list for a long time
and who has never ever bought a license from us. In those cases it makes
sense for us to try to help move you up to the commercial version, in the
hope that as you use the commercial features and enjoy a level of success,
you may become a full price subscriber to at least one of the various
things we offer subscriptions to.

Clearly it would be completely unsustainable for us as a business to do
something like that if you weren¹t in such a category as our bread and
butter is revenue of all sorts from our subscriber base. The purpose of
this type of offer is increase the odds we ultimately grow full price
subscribers and purchasers. The Simulcast is certainly not available for
less than the list price to anyone, the conference is very expensive to
run and packed with valuable content.

If you get such an offer it states clearly it is personal to you and not
transferable. So posting it on the list puts us in the difficult position
of potentially having to decline a purchase from individuals who did not
receive it. That's not a situation we ever want to be in as it leads to
disappointment all round, but we don¹t really have a choice. This was not
a general offer open to everyone.

In general if you have questions about offers, pricing, licensing etc we
greatly appreciate it if you post them to supp...@livecode.com. This list
is about using LiveCode, and as such I would like to declare an end to
this thread.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself




On 28/04/2019, 16:06, "use-livecode on behalf of Rick Harrison via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>Hi Matthias,
>
>Nice one, but no thanks.
>
>Sometimes bundling isn¹t the best option for LiveCode vets.
>Individual offerings might be better for some of us.
>
>I don¹t think the mothership should leave money
>on the table by not offering other options.
>
>Just my 2 cents for the day.
>
>Enjoy your day! :-)
>
>Rick
>
>> On Apr 28, 2019, at 9:17 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
>> wrote:
>> 
>> You can order just the Simulcast here
>>https://livecode.com/california19/simulcast/
>> 
>> for 149$. ;)
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 28.04.2019 um 04:35 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode
>>>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Mark,
>>> 
>>> I have a Lifetime Indy LiveCode license.  So I don¹t need that.
>>> I have a Lifetime On-Rev license.
>>> I run my own servers with Postgresql as my database.
>>> (I really don¹t need LiveCloud yet.)
>>> I do not want to attend the conference in person.
>>> 
>>> So yes, in my case, the deal isn¹t good enough for me.
>>> I might only have interest in just the simulcast and recordings.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for asking.
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 27, 2019, at 10:13 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode
 wrote:
 
 On 4/27/19 6:45 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote:
 
> Is there a way to just get full access to the 2019 Simulcast
>streaming and recordings?
 
 Because $149 for that PLUS a LiveCloud subscription AND a permanent
9.0 license isn't a good enough deal for you?
 
 If you buy a $199 ticket to attend the conference and want to add
just the simulcast and recordings, that alone will add $149.
 
 -- 
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com
 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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[OT] Personal project

2019-10-24 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Hi folks,

This is initial launch of a new personal project of mine, not strictly LiveCode 
related. I hope you'll indulge this one time me if I post a link to it here. 
Perhaps some of you might be interested in it.

Annihilate Depression is a practical guide to overcoming depression based on my 
experiences:
http://annihilatedepression.com 

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself
 



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Re: [OT] Personal project

2019-10-24 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Sean, thanks so much for this heartfelt response. BPD and Autism are 
particularly tough nuts to crack and I really feel for you. I've got plenty to 
say relevant to both believe it or not. I'll get there in time. And I agree 
that making others around you happy is a very important part of the meaning of 
life.

Thanks also to those others of you who wrote such positive responses today. I 
was a little nervous launching this and felt it was something that I needed to 
do nonetheless. It's clear this is something that has touched many of you or 
those around you. The friendly responses to this effort are so encouraging.

I don't want to lead this list deeply off topic by posting in a great deal of 
detail here. However if you want to engage on the channel itself with comments, 
feedback and questions either now or on future videos, I'll be very happy to 
respond on there as much as I can.

Thanks again for the feedback and for being the community that you are.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 24/10/2019, 15:47, "use-livecode on behalf of Sean Cole (Pi) via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Dearest Kevin,

Massive respect to you for choosing, against the advice of your associates,
to make this public. I just watched the intro video and will continue to
follow the channel with deep interest.

As you are very likely aware, I have battled, often unsuccessfully, with
'clinical' depression and more recently been diagnosed with BPD (Borderline
Personality Disorder) and Autism. I recently found out that BPD is the most
discriminated against condition on the planet - which is nice! Health
Insurance costs up to 10 times more than any other condition. The stigma
behind these conditions is what can perpetuate them if not checked or
fought.

The NHS just wrote me off their books a year on since my last big incident.
They have to do that though, I understand it's not their fault. But, in the
last year, I have learnt a lot. I have learned the Meaning of Life! It is
simply 'To Make Others Around You Happy'. Helping others is helping
yourself. Showing interest in and care for others is really important. And
so-called 'social media' is deadly and abusive. It is far, far better to
get to know people up close and personal than via a corrupt intermediatory.

I am extremely grateful to all those on this group who supported me and put
up with my behaviour. It will never be forgotten. Also to those closest to
me for all they have done, especially my wife of 24 years, Judith.

I wish you all the success you deserve for both overcoming your conditions
and in maintaining your business. A good example to follow!

All the very best

Sean Cole
*Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
www.pidigital.co.uk
+44(1634)402193
+44(7702)116447
'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
box!'
'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
but it is yourself!'

eMail Ts & Cs <http://pidigital.co.uk/emailTCs.rtf>   Pi Digital
Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609


On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 at 13:56, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> This is initial launch of a new personal project of mine, not strictly
> LiveCode related. I hope you'll indulge this one time me if I post a link
> to it here. Perhaps some of you might be interested in it.
>
> Annihilate Depression is a practical guide to overcoming depression based
> on my experiences:
> http://annihilatedepression.com
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
>
>
>
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All new Kognition beta - LiveCode all-in Knowledgebase

2021-05-13 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Hi Folks,

 

As some of you may be aware, LiveCode has a stake in a start-up business, 
Kognition. Kognition have a very small team building an artificially 
intelligent way of working with information (using LiveCode).

 

We have a beta/demo version which we thought could be interesting to share with 
you. What we’ve done is connected it up to the various sources of LiveCode 
information we have, including the mailing list, forums, documentation etc so 
you can find answers to a LiveCode related question as you are scripting or 
building an app. Everything is cloud based so it stays up to date as new posts 
occur or documentation becomes available.

 

You can see how it works in this tour here:

https://youtu.be/Iu5KpZVhwrM

 

If you’re interested in trying it and have a little time to give us some 
feedback, the beta/demo program is free. We don’t allow you to import your own 
files in this version, just use the LiveCode data set that we have set up. Drop 
a line to supp...@livecode.com and we will get you signed up to try it out. At 
the end of the beta program this may potentially become a paid resource or 
integrated in some way if there is sufficient interest. And of course we are 
very interested in hearing about ways you might be able to use something like 
this in your own business or with clients, accessing other knowledge bases or 
bringing together specific sources of information. Kognition has the potential 
to be used in a wide variety of settings, anywhere where there is a information 
sitting in one or more system that you need to find answers from regularly.

 

Many thanks,

 

Kevin

 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/

LiveCode: Develop Yourself

 

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Re: Licensing model change

2021-08-31 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
I don't know your specific license plan and Heather has left for the evening, 
however generally if we promised something in the past we do honour it. 
Licensing emails are going out, if you don't have yours by tomorrow feel free 
to drop us a line in support.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 31/08/2021, 18:00, "use-livecode on behalf of Sean Cole (Pi) via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

What has happened to price lock-ins though? Will they get honoured? I'm
still paying for a web deployment that still doesn't work properly yet.
What is happening to that?

On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 at 17:48, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I did not mean that we could get it to another firm for commercial use, I
> meant that we could potentially limp through, ourselves, with the 
exception
> of the pieces that were not OSS'd.
> Most of the time when we ask for source escrow, the fees are insane, if 
the
> developer will even discuss it.
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 12:39 PM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > So I am disappointed that the code will not be out in the open 
in
> > the event of a business failure
> >
> > The GPL open source license we used never provided this sort of
> protection
> > due to the terms of the GPL. For that reason, we continued to sell 
source
> > code escrow licenses to some commercial users, even as an open source
> > company.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Can't reach license server...

2021-08-31 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Nothing will change until the end of your current term. Emails are gradually 
going out to licensed customers at the moment so if you hang fire a few more 
minutes that information will be with you.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 31/08/2021, 17:30, "use-livecode on behalf of Andre Garzia via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Dear Heather,

Can you clarify what will happen to our current licenses? For example, I 
have an Indy license that goes into March 2022, how does that translate to the 
new offering? What features do I get?

It would be great if the Pricing FAQ could include some text on that topic.

Best
A

> On 31 Aug 2021, at 16:51, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
 wrote:
> 
> There was a temporary license problem which should now be fixed. If you 
are still seeing it please let me know in support.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 31 Aug 2021, at 16:49, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
 wrote:
>> 
>> That’s why I use the manual license method.
>> 
>> Hopefully they are aware of the problem and are working on it.
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> When trying to launch LiveCode, I keep getting errors contacting the 
license server and I see that Livecode.com is currently down for maintenance, 
so hopefully, this is a very temporary issue.
>>> 
>>> However, is anyone else having problems running LC due to not getting a 
license validated?
>>> 
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Re: Licensing model change

2021-08-31 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
So I am disappointed that the code will not be out in the open in the 
event of a business failure

The GPL open source license we used never provided this sort of protection due 
to the terms of the GPL. For that reason, we continued to sell source code 
escrow licenses to some commercial users, even as an open source company.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself




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Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

2021-08-31 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
You can only buy one plan time per person. Or if you are an organization, again 
you all need to be on the same plan. You can't buy two $9.99 platforms - 
Starter pricing is intended to be just that, to make it easy and accessible to 
get started.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 31/08/2021, 18:38, "use-livecode on behalf of Kaveh via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

OK. Price per month:

   - Starter plan Mac – £7.99
   - Starter plan Windows – £7.99
   - Starter Mac + Windows – £24.99

What am I missing?

On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 at 18:03, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Don't forget the discount for however long that's good for
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 1:00 PM Kaveh via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Now I have to work out the new maze of pricing!
> >
> > On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 at 17:07, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > here is the announcement: https://livecode.org/
> > >
> > > ___
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kaveh Bazargan PhD
> > Director
> > River Valley Technologies  ●
> Twitter
> >  ● LinkedIn
> >  ● ORCID
> > 
> > *Accelerating the Communication of Research*
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>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Director
River Valley Technologies  ● Twitter
 ● LinkedIn
 ● ORCID

*Accelerating the Communication of Research*
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Re: Licensing model change

2021-09-01 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Thanks Curry, we appreciate the feedback. Hope you feel better soon!

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 31/08/2021, 22:28, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via 
use-livecode"  wrote:


Kevin:

 > After 8 years with an open source offering we have come to
 > the conclusion this is not the way forward for LiveCode.

I agree. In 2013 I was on-the-record as an OSSLC skeptic.
I urged caution, but my input was summarily brushed aside;
"we've already decided with our VIPs" was the mindset.
There were many cheerleaders and nobody wanted analysis.

I seem to be vindicated, by time and facts.
My logic was not clouded by cliques or politiques.
Some of my worries came true, despite popular mantras.

Now as then, I offer some clear-headed thoughts in kindness.
Feel free to accept or ignore them; again time will tell.

To save us all another 8 years of issues, my advice now is:

1. Get the pricing right!

Dropping open-source is the first step, and that's right.
Pricing per platform is probably right, but needs tweaking.
Standard plan starts off right, but ends up too expensive.
The discount should increase per addon platform.

You will find that many people can't afford what they need.
Probably +1 platform per price tier would be nearer the mark.
Neither extreme is good; all freeloaders or all Cadillac.
Let's not jump from one mistake right to the other.

2. Get the code right!

A. We build software on LiveCode.
B. Foundations must be stable and solid.
C. The goal is to be easier and save dev time.
D. Therefore LiveCode must offer a solid foundation,
that is quite stable over time. (Moreso than Apple.)

LC 7 and 8 introduced tons of bugs. Buggy is bad.
Performance also dropped dramatically. Not good.

Today's roadmap looks like a step the right direction.
Some solid engine improvements.

For many years I've seen newbies unable to tell
whether a bug was LC's fault or their own.
That usually shouldn't be a tossup; firm foundation!
And LC needs to perform well to be competitive.

When an underlying API changes, our top-level code shouldn't.
Sometimes maybe, but usually not. Understand LC's paradigm.
Think how expensive client-side code changes were from 7 to 9.

3. Get the listening right!

I've warned about cliques and ever-changing inner circles.
Yep, there's a reason why group-think has a bad reputation. :)

Also about pre-biased poll designs and cherry picked focus groups.
Yep, you hear what you expect, but you don't get true feedback.

Diversity of opinion is good, and objectivity is rare.
But logic is a firm foundation, and emotion is not.
You won't recruit a new user generation by limiting the narrative.
Listen and learn. It always goes both ways. That's the beauty of it.

4. Happy coding!

I'm stick sick (fever too at the moment) so just pitching in
right now with my observations out of kind timely consideration.
So no flame wars at me please; time will verify what I've said.

Looks like we're entering a promising new chapter. Back to rest!
(More news of my own eventually, after I shake this illness)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: LiveCode community edition is gone

2021-09-01 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
We are of course incredibly grateful for the contributions we have received, 
all of which were spent on the project over many years. However I would note 
that 90%+ of all crowd funding campaign support came from license holders, the 
majority in the form of future license purchases. Commercial license revenue, 
whether crowd funded or not, was always the biggest source of funding for the 
open source project.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 01/09/2021, 16:44, "use-livecode on behalf of Dan Brown via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

"I can only assume
many of them used LC simply because it was free of charge, disliking that
doing so in future will entail them making some contribution to the cost of
progress."

That's a bit harsh, are you forgetting the amount of money that was
contributed by users to the fund raisers over the years?  > $600k

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 2:30 PM Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> FWIW over on the forums the sentiment seems to be mostly hostile to these
> changes. Many are talking of collecting and hosting past "community"
> installers to get around these changes by LC Ltd, others talking of 
jumping
> ship.  Over there the attitude is "the sky is falling".  I can only assume
> many of them used LC simply because it was free of charge, disliking that
> doing so in future will entail them making some contribution to the cost 
of
> progress.
>
> Regards, Bernard
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Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

2021-09-03 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
What I liked about your email to me Tom was that it was extremely specific. You 
had just a handful of issues you considered absolutely key and offered to Zoom 
to show that to me. I look forward to scheduling that once I finish getting 
unburried __ 

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 22:59, "use-livecode on behalf of Tom Glod via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

Lagi,

I wrote to Kevin earlier and gave the exact same advice. those exact 2
points needing to be addressed.

Give long trial, fix the most obvious IDE issues ASAP.

Without those two things how is any new developer going to join the
platform?



On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
> something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the
> way
> so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
>
>  You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
> and by the time they answer
> you get cheesed off and remove the  program.
>
> The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
> (whichever comes first).
>
> This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
> for 6 months but it times out anyway.
> Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice so
> it will last 30 days.
>
> This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
> rushing.
>
> The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
> customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
> who want to give it a good try.
>
> You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
> button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
> brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).
>
> But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on 
a
> 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
> treacle.
>
> If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in 
less
> than 30 minutes.
>
> You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"  to
> schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.
>
> It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
> some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
> student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid 
idea
> of the lot so far)
>
>
> Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
> stupid and not workable suggestions?.
>
> Lagi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give 
a
> > longer trial a shot at some point.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> >
> > On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
> > use-livecode"  > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > True, true.
> >
> > There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around
> > but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
> > programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
> > supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I
> would
> > not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.
> >
> > Ralph DiMola
> > IT Director
> > Evergreen Information Services
> > rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> > Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
> > To: How to use LiveCode
> > Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
> > Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community E

Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

2021-09-03 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
There are some good suggestions here around the Lagi, thank you. We will 
certainly be exploring ways to make that experience just right in the coming 
days.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 22:33, "use-livecode on behalf of Lagi Pittas via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the way
so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.

 You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
and by the time they answer
you get cheesed off and remove the  program.

The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
(whichever comes first).

This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
for 6 months but it times out anyway.
Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice so
it will last 30 days.

This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
rushing.

The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
who want to give it a good try.

You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).

But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a
16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
treacle.

If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in less
than 30 minutes.

You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"  to
schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.

It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid idea
of the lot so far)


Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
stupid and not workable suggestions?.

Lagi







On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give a
> longer trial a shot at some point.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> True, true.
>
> There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around
> but you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a
> programming IDE and explain how to run the stack along with any other
> supporting files, SW or plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I would
> not dismiss this out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
    >
>     -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
> Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free
> non-app building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just
> download that.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen
> via use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there
>
> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>
> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>
> Michael
>
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Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

2021-09-02 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to contact 
support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone.

It's true that open source has made things difficult for the company, but 
they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. Please do 
write to Heather.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode 
 wrote:

>> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>
>> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that were 
>> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as the 
Startert 
>> Plan subscription expires.
>
> Not even Apple is that rapacious.
>
> I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling stuff 
(although 
> the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I have been 
> “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only LC uses 
> being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating software I 
> wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and occasionally 
> contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC to move 
to 
> a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made sense for 
> our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford US$1000 every 
> year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even the 
Server 
> is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that means 
the 
> app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since Hypercard 
> day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has come to an 
end. 
> A great pity, but I guess times move on.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and generous 
> community for many years.
>
> Neville Smythe
>
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Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

2021-09-02 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Thanks Devin, I do appreciate the words of support. Change is always hard, and 
this particular one was something we were not looking forward to. But it had to 
be done and we will find our way through it.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 10:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Bernard Devlin via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi Kevin

I've read your various interactions with people here and on the forum and I
think you're handling this superbly  In the last 5 years my house insurance
has doubled in price (the house has remained the same size and the
insurance offers no more features). At no point has my insurance company
said "contact us if you can't afford this and we'll work something out".

Regards,

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to
> contact
> support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone.
>
> It's true that open source has made things difficult for the company,
> but
> they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. Please
> do
> write to Heather.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> >> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com
> wrote:
> >>
> >> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that
> were
> >> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as the
> Startert
> >> Plan subscription expires.
> >
> > Not even Apple is that rapacious.
> >
> > I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling stuff
> (although
> > the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I have
> been
> > “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only LC
> uses
> > being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating software
> I
> > wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and occasionally
> > contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC to
> move to
> > a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made sense
> for
> > our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford US$1000
> every
> > year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even the
> Server
> > is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that
> means the
> > app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since
> Hypercard
> > day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has come to
> an end.
> > A great pity, but I guess times move on.
> >
> > I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and
> generous
> > community for many years.
> >
> > Neville Smythe
> >
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
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>
>
>
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Re: Bye, and thanks for the fish

2021-09-02 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
I meant Bernard of course, apologies.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 11:22, "use-livecode on behalf of Kevin Miller via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Thanks Devin, I do appreciate the words of support. Change is always hard, 
and this particular one was something we were not looking forward to. But it 
had to be done and we will find our way through it.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 10:50, "use-livecode on behalf of Bernard Devlin via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi Kevin

I've read your various interactions with people here and on the forum 
and I
think you're handling this superbly  In the last 5 years my house 
insurance
has doubled in price (the house has remained the same size and the
insurance offers no more features). At no point has my insurance company
said "contact us if you can't afford this and we'll work something out".

Regards,

On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> What she said. Get in touch and I'm sure we can work something out.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Develop Yourself
>
> On 02/09/2021, 04:36, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> This situation is the kind of thing that Kevin encourages you to
> contact
> support about. He's said he doesn't want to lose anyone.
>
> It's true that open source has made things difficult for the 
company,
> but
> they also value the folks who have stood by them all this time. 
Please
> do
> write to Heather.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On September 1, 2021 7:54:16 PM Neville Smythe via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> >> On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:36 pm, 
use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com
> wrote:
> >>
> >> i am not sure, if everyone is aware of it, but standalones that
> were
> >> created with the Starter Plan license will expire as soon as 
the
> Startert
> >> Plan subscription expires.
> >
> > Not even Apple is that rapacious.
> >
> > I used to have a commercial licence back when I was selling 
stuff
> (although
> > the economics of software never made sense). Since retiring I 
have
> been
> > “freeloading" with the Community edition as a hobbyist, my only 
LC
> uses
> > being for personal use, and maintaining admin and operating 
software
> I
> > wrote for a not-for-profit sporting organisation, and 
occasionally
> > contributing bug reports. I can well understand the need for LC 
to
> move to
> > a profitable basis, and I would be happy buy a plan if it made 
sense
> for
> > our use, but there is no way my NFP association can afford 
US$1000
> every
> > year - or even one year (we would use 3 platforms, and not even 
the
> Server
> > is thrown in with the desktop platforms). And a Starter Kit that
> means the
> > app would stop working when I pass on (I have been around since
> Hypercard
> > day 1) is an insult. Seems to me the hobbyist use of LC has 
come to
> an end.
> > A great pity, but I guess times move on.
> >
> > I have greatly enjoyed being part of this (mostly) friendly and
> generous
> > community for many years.
> >
> > Neville Smythe
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
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Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

2021-09-02 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free non-app 
building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just download that.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi there

I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.

Michael

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Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

2021-09-02 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
We *are* considering the length of the trial actively, we may well give a 
longer trial a shot at some point.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 15:51, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

True, true.

There could be a small group of programmers that pass a stack around but 
you would not be able to convince/teach a civilian to install a programming IDE 
and explain how to run the stack along with any other supporting files, SW or 
plug-ins... Mobile would be a non-starter. I would not dismiss this 
out-of-hand. A 90 day free IDE could also be an option.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
Of Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 10:31 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Kevin Miller; Michael Kristensen
Subject: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

Thanks for the constructive suggestion. Unfortunately with a free non-app 
building version, everyone who needs to run an app can just download that.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 02/09/2021, 14:49, "use-livecode on behalf of Michael Kristensen via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

Hi there

I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.

Michael

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Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

2021-09-06 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
The direction is broadly the one we are following, however we are always open 
to tweaking things.

With regard to the conversation on free starter kit/ non-standalone building 
etc, I'll copy what I said on the forums:

We have dabbled with a number of low cost /entry level offerings in the past. 
There used to be a starter kit that allowed only a certain number of lines of 
code per object. We had non-standalone building products e.g. 
DreamCard/revMedia. None of these models have worked well for a long list of 
reasons - indeed they caused huge issues for us. This problem is much harder to 
solve than you might think. Will we continue to refine our entry level 
offering? Yes definitely. Specific suggestions in this area are welcome, 
particularly directly to me rather than on here.

A number of you quite successfully outlined a number of the problem we had with 
these various models in the past. I'm not going to go into it further, but 
thanks to those that contributed.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 04/09/2021, 17:48, "use-livecode on behalf of Tom Glod via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

David, thats an interesting model to bring up.
I wonder how much of this new direction is considered to be etched in
stone, and how much is up for tweaking still.  Very happy to see signs that
the team is listening to all the feedback.






On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 10:37 AM David Bovill via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The clearest example of a free-forever development licence which you pay
> for when you wish to release your app is obviously Unity 3D. I remember
> when this project was a small developer community supported by a company
> and community of keen early adopters. I asked then why Livecode Ltd didn’t
> adopt a model close to that - sure there are differences between the game
> market and Livecode’s market but still?
>
> So the question here is why not do the same here - keep a free-to-develop
> “trial version” without the compilation framework and tools. I’m curious 
to
> the reasoning. The cynic in me would say that the assumption is that there
> are too few developers in this (non-game) market who would need the
> compilation / stand-alone-builder functions - so while game developers and
> companies might pay for commercial Unity 3D licenses - that is not true 
for
> Livecode developers? I don’t / like / buy that argument - so I would love
> to here good reasons or not adopting a Unity 3D style licensing model?
>
>     Schedule a call with me
> On 3 Sep 2021, 15:07 +0100, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > What I liked about your email to me Tom was that it was extremely
> specific. You had just a handful of issues you considered absolutely key
> and offered to Zoom to show that to me. I look forward to scheduling that
> once I finish getting unburried __
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Develop Yourself
> >
> > On 02/09/2021, 22:59, "use-livecode on behalf of Tom Glod via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Lagi,
> >
> > I wrote to Kevin earlier and gave the exact same advice. those exact 2
> > points needing to be addressed.
> >
> > Give long trial, fix the most obvious IDE issues ASAP.
> >
> > Without those two things how is any new developer going to join the
> > platform?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 5:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
> > > something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in
> the
> > > way
> > > so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
> > >
> > > You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an 
extension,
> > > and by the time they answer
> > > you get cheesed off and remove the program.
> > >
> > > The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6
> months
> > > (whichever comes first).
> > >
> > > This stops the clever SOD who decides to keep it running without
> exiting
> > > for 6 months but it times out anyway.
> > > Even better if 

Re: Sample stacks / revOnline [was: Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition]

2021-09-06 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Upgrading this could be a very useful project. There is a lot of content in 
there but it has the issues you list.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 06/09/2021, 14:11, "use-livecode on behalf of Alex Tweedly via 
use-livecode"  wrote:

In the main thread, I mentioned that I found revOnline (aka "Sample 
Stacks"), but didn't say how or why. Here the answer to that ...

It has:

- no differentiation between 'libraries' and 'examples'

- it has no support for script-only stacks, which is surely the way most 
libraries will be done nowadays.

- a left hand scrolling box with ~90 'categories', in no particular 
order, no grouping

- grid vs list view - list shows you a list, which is basically the same 
as a 1-wide grid rather than 2-wide, plus a larger view of some random 
other item (OK, it's not random - it simply doesn't update when it should)

- updates when you click on the picture - but gives no cursor hint that 
you can do that

- a drop-down list for sort order - which isn't sized adequately when 
you first open revonline

- a 'search' box which must search something, but I don't know what. 
There is a sample stack called "Compare stack scripts", and which is 
tagged as "compare" - but isn't found if you search for "compare".

- and I usually find things via "browser + google" (or similar) and the 
stuff in samples stacks isn't visible that way.

H - maybe I've just found my next project :-)

Alex.


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Re: Sharing a desktop app, or with beta testers

2022-01-26 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
While this may not be applicable in all cases, the Web deployment options in 10 
should resolve this for a great many sorts of LC apps. 

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On 26 Jan 2022, 20:40, at 20:40, Keith Martin via use-livecode 
 wrote:
>If only it was easier to do. 
>I've actually stopped using LC much because the process of making apps
>that people can run without fuss has become ridiculous. I'm still
>hoping for a solution that isn't so aggressively hostile! The current
>situation feels like a direct threat to LiveCode the company, as it
>must be putting off more than a few people from becoming or staying
>customers.
>
>k
>
>Keith Martin
>360 media specialist http://PanoramaPhotographer.com
>Contact and info http://thatkeith.com
>+44 (0)7909541365
>
>
>
>> On 26 Jan 2022, at 20:24, matthias rebbe via use-livecode
> wrote:
>> 
>> If you have an Apple Developer Account membership you could code
>sign and notarize your app. 
>> This should prevent the security issue.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>>> Am 26.01.2022 um 20:29 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode
>:
>>> 
>>> Folks:
>>> Sorry for this question which probably has been answered many times,
>but …. I’m trying not to waste my day searching around.
>>> 
>>> What’s the best way to send a desktop app on Apple OS 12.1 to a
>friend or beta tester? I sent an app and a security issue came up.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bill P
>>> 
>>> William A. Prothero, Ph.D.
>>> University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences
>(Emeritus)
>>> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
>>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
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>> 
>> 
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Re: A few issues with web apps

2022-08-20 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Don't worry the goal is for zero workarounds by the time we're ready to ship 
GM. These things are just there to keep you going in the mean time.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Develop Yourself

On 19/08/2022, 18:16, "use-livecode on behalf of Tweedly via use-livecode" 
 wrote:


> On 19 Aug 2022, at 16:01, panagiotis m via use-livecode 
 wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> BTW, I just wrote a lesson on how to scroll a LC text field on Web using
> :
>> 
Thank you. 
But at the risk of sounding ungrateful - please don’t.
Please just make basic functionality like resizing, scrolling, etc. Work 
properly and nicely out of the box.
Alex.

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Re: Training the AI to write better LiveCode

2023-01-13 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Its far more than a search engine. It can edit copy, write articles and analyse 
multiple inputs for similarities and differences and a lot more. Like all such 
new technologies this is going to be here to stay. So its not a case of trying 
not to train it in order to preserve programmer jobs. There will be plenty left 
for a human to do in building an app, we are just going to get more productive 
as this gets better. What is important is ensuring that LiveCode, which is 
supported already, is not left behind and that you can generate LiveCode code 
at the same standard as other languages. At present its coding abilities in any 
language are interesting but a bit ropy, lets ensure that as it gets better as 
it inevitably will, its LiveCode skills improve too.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 



On 12/01/2023, 17:45, "use-livecode on behalf of harrison--- via use-livecode" 
mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:


ChatGPT has been called a search engine without the search engine.
I would tend to agree with that. It seems to find bits and pieces of code
or articles that others have written before and tries to put them together.
It uses a text typing output mode to give it the appearance of an
intelligence/person typing at the keyboard, but that is part of the illusion.


ChatGPT claims that it isn’t connected to the internet, but it is, or it 
wouldn’t
be able to respond to your questions over the internet. The database
that it accesses for answers is however compartmentalized, as far as
we have been told.


If by some miracle we were able to train it to be super intelligent at
writing computer code, do we as programmers really want to shoot
ourselves in the foot by giving it the tools to replace our talent?
That’s food for thought. Just because something may be technologically
possible, doesn’t mean we should necessarily do that thing.


Just my two cents.


Enjoy your day!


Rick


> On Jan 12, 2023, at 9:02 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> yesterday was not a good session for me. all responses were irrelevant, and
> sometimes seemed random.
> we'll see what we find, the next time.


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Re: Sad news about Brahmanathaswami

2022-12-27 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
I'm sorry to hear this very sad news. Swami was a warm, helpful and 
enthusiastic member of our community for about as long as I can remember. He 
will be missed by our community and by many in the LiveCode team. Rest in peace.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 


On 25/12/2022, 17:00, "use-livecode on behalf of Andre Garzia via 
use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:

Dear LiveCoders,

Many of you here remember Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami (some of you met him as 
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami many years ago). Swami has always been a champion for 
LiveCode and together with other other monks in Kaua’i Hindu Monastery built 
what is probably the largest LiveCode-backed website available on the net. He’s 
been a constant fixture here on the list for many years and many here been at 
some time or another worked with him on various projects. I’m sad to say that 
Brahmanathaswami passed away this week on Hawaii. His life has been full of joy 
among his beloved monks in a paradise Island full of love and sunshine. 

I’ve worked with him there on and off for the best part of maybe 18 years 
(we’re not exactly sure when I started), he’s been a great friend and together 
we built many wondrous things with LiveCode. I’ll forever cherish those years, 
and I hope you all remember him fondly today as well.

Kind regards
Andre
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Re: Training the AI to write better LiveCode

2023-01-23 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Ethics are very important to me as you know. I'm a passionate believer in 
working to increase fairness as we grow and evolve as a species. We're making 
great progress at that at the moment. For example, the number of people living 
in extreme poverty globally has more than halved in the last 20 years. Over 
half of the world's population has a smartphone, giving them access to what 
would once have been a supercomputer, and an online world that just 25 years 
ago the majority could not access.

I think it takes time after something new emerges before we sort out the 
societal implications fully. Such implications are rarely well understood at 
the start. I don't think the questions these lawsuits raise have easy answers. 
It certainly does not seem clear cut to me on reading them what is even right 
or in the ultimate best interests of artists, creators or our species. I would 
need to dig into this for a lot longer to truly form an opinion.

I don't underestimate the potential for technology to continue at breath-taking 
rate and solve the problem of writing in assembler. I get the exponential 
growth of technology and the improvements of algorithms that lead to further 
growths - in fact I'm quite excited about it. I'm just not sure that this is a 
problem that really needs solved next. We already have a technology that takes 
human readable code and creates machine instructions, i.e. compliers. Until 
technology completely eliminates humans in the making of software (which may of 
course happen one day) I don't think we need to worry (too much!) about the 
exit of scripting languages. It's a useful medium for a human to understand and 
edit in until such time as we are truly defunct. If and when that happens I 
doubt there will be any sort of jobs in any industry.

We also have to be careful we don't try to cut off our nose to spite our face. 
Leaving a language like ours behind in the dust rather than finding ways to 
work with new opportunities like this one is a high price to pay, particularly 
as such a protest would have little or no impact on the course of the evolution 
of such technology. Obviously we need to stand up for our rights as we go 
forward, I am not advocating sticking our collective heads in the sand. This 
could go in a negative direction, particularly depending on who owns it and has 
access to it and we can re-evaluate things if necessary in the future.

As to the first industrial revolution, I think it's easy to forget what it was 
actually like to live a couple of hundred years ago compared to now. I'm with 
Geoff, overall it came out extremely well. That gives one a little cautious 
optimism that the second one might also do so, though as ever the future is not 
guaranteed.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 



On 21/01/2023, 22:40, "use-livecode on behalf of Geoff Canyon via 
use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:


Those only interested in LiveCode, click "next" now.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 10:40 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:

>
> After all, the Codex had been trained on billions of
> publicly available source code lines – including code
> in public repositories on GitHub. That included, among
> other things, all of the Apache Foundation's many
> projects' code.
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/11/githubs_copilot_opinion/ 
> 
>
>
> Stability Diffusion, Midjourney, and DreamUp were
> trained on copyrighted materials without credit,
> compensation, or consent, according to a new lawsuit.
>
> https://www.pcmag.com/news/artists-sue-ai-art-generators-for-copyright-infringement
>  
> 

My not-a-lawyer understanding is that this lawsuit is almost guaranteed to
fail. Just from a conceptual perspective, human artists have access to the
same copyrighted material (albeit not the ability to ingest *all* of it)
and even the ability to mimic it for their own edification. It's the act of
publishing similar work that is problematic. And it's going to be fun for
the lawyers to sort out who's at fault if I use Stable Diffusion to create
a corporate christmas card that happens to resemble the Coca-Cola polar
bears.

> We're a very long way from attempting to write all apps in assembler
> > using this sort of AI.
>
> Are we? As late as my teens I was still reading science mags saying
> "Well, AI is going to be a big deal, but no machine will ever beat a
> human at something as complex as chess."
>
> Big Blue beat world chess champion Garry Kasparov less than two decades
> later.
>
> So the goalpost moved, with explanations like "Well, chess is ultimately
> a 

Re: Training the AI to write better LiveCode

2023-01-21 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
An interesting point of view. We're a very long way from attempting to write 
all apps in assembler using this sort of AI. And humans are going to want to go 
on reading, editing and understanding code to create whole programs, whether 
produced by machine or a human, for a long time yet. When AI really is advanced 
enough to be creating an entire complex program in perfect assembler I think 
the world will change in so many ways that we'll have far bigger societal 
implications to consider than just its impact on scripting languages.

At the moment I see this as potentially heading towards a position where it 
could be quite an aid to scripting languages, both in terms of learning and 
helping write code. It might also take the shine out of some no-code 
environments as its probably easier to describe what you want your code to do 
and get back some nice clear English-like instructions (LiveCode script) than 
click on 100 boxes with menus and connectors to set up actions. Used in the 
hands of a skilled programmer it may become a particularly productive 
combination.

At the end of the day, this sort of AI is clearly going to happen and get 
better -  whether it comes from OpenAI or someone else. We will have about as 
much luck stopping that as stopping a change in the weather. When the wind 
changes, it's time to adjust your sails.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 



On 20/01/2023, 19:22, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin via 
use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:


If ChatGPT can write script, it can write machine code.

If it can write machine code, scripting is unnecessary.

If scripting goes, so goes scripting tools.

So before we donate much time to providing index fodder for the owners 
of ChatGPT, we might ask whether this is an investment we want to make, 
or perhaps at least ask for compensation for having provided the data 
that makes ChatGPT valuable for its owners.


-- 
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


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Re: We lost an Angle

2024-01-11 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
So very sorry to hear that Ralph. My thoughts are with you.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 11/01/2024, 01:54, "use-livecode on behalf of Ralph DiMola via 
use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:


Many of you knew Margaret from the conferences. We lost her today. She spent
her life as a nurse in the oncology department. She gave her love and
empathy to all her patients. She was so full of life and gave it a gallant
try, but was not to be. We just celebrated our 40th anniversary in December.


You all were so kind and welcoming to her. I thank you for that.






Ralph DiMola


IT Director


Evergreen Information Services


rdim...@evergreeninfo.net 


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Re: activation and login broken?

2024-02-02 Thread Kevin Miller via use-livecode
Something is wrong... We are looking into it now.

Kind regards, 

Kevin 

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ 
LiveCode: Build Amazing Things 




On 02/02/2024, 19:56, "use-livecode on behalf of David Wood via use-livecode" 
mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of 
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:


Same here


In my case just on Mac but also as you say trying to log into the Livecode 
website.


> On 3/02/2024, at 8:24 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> hmmm. i just tried to fire up LC on both mac and pc. i ran into an
> activation dialog, so i tried to log in, and got an error. so, i tried to
> log into the livecode website, and hit the same thing.
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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