Re: S3 Compatible?

2021-02-28 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
I think that a consequence of the popularity of S3 REST API was overlooked
by the LC HQ when they designed the AWS library. Many of the AWS APIs were
copied by other competing products so that they'd become a turn-key
replacement for AWS. It is much easier to push your company's backuping
solution if it is compatible to S3 for example. Many FOSS self-hosted
projects created endpoints compatible with AWS for the same reasons.

It should be trivial to add a command to register a custom endpoint. I
think that the whole password protection of that stack is to make sure it
is only available to Indy licensees. I don't mind it being Indy and up
only, but I'd love for those libraries to have their source open so that
people can contribute such small changes. This would free resources from
the mothership and keep those libraries fresh.

Best
A

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 at 20:13, Kee Nethery via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thank you for the clarification.
>
> Kee Nethery
>
> > On Feb 25, 2021, at 10:06 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Kee Nethery wrote:
> >
> > > From this conversation am I to assume that if I am planning
> > > on building a project that relies on AWS S3, I’m gonna have
> > > to roll my own connector to it?
> >
> > It seems the opposite: if you need S3 storage, AWS is the only one
> supported by the LC lib included in proprietary editions.
> >
> > You would only need to roll your own if you want S3 from another
> provider, which is the circumstance Tom has which prompted this thread.
> >
> > Monte described the history of the library a couple posts back:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/263537.html
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> > Fourth World Systems
> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> > 
> > ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> >
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Re: Wasm and the LC Roadmap

2021-02-17 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Let me begin by saying that WASM is not a silver bullet. I know this doesn’t 
happen on our community, and that David is not mentioning WASM as a magical 
solution for HTML5 deployment.

A bit of context is needed to understand why WASM is important and cool. In the 
past, many C/C++ to Web solutions were based on emscripten which is a toolset 
based on LLVM that can output C/C++ code in something called “ASM.js” which is 
a very compact JavaScript source code that kinda does what the C/C++ was doing. 
This is how people ported the “Unreal Engine” to the web for example. Be aware 
that ASM.js doesn’t deal with graphics and stuff, that still web technologies. 
It is just very good at number crunching and makes it possible to reuse C/C++ 
code.

The main drawbacks from ASM.js (which can be felt on the HTML5 deployment) is 
that the file sizes are huge. Just imagine a compiler that instead of 
generating native binary code is generating actual equivalent JavaScript code. 
This presents two problems for the user, first is the lengthy file transfer 
needed to download all that content to the users browser, second is the time it 
takes for the JS engine to actually parse those large files.

These problems are mitigated by WASM. WebAssembly grew out of the working 
groups that were developing ASM.js. It is a bytecode format, so it is smaller 
than the equivalent JS file. It is also a standardized VM, which means it 
executes the same in all browsers that support it. Another cute trick it can do 
is that is can start loading the bytecode in the VM while it is transferring 
(aka loading while streaming) which means that by the time the transfer 
completes, a huge portion of that code is already loaded.

Not only this speeds up the user experience, but having a well-defined VM makes 
it easier for language developers to target it instead of the ASM.js hacks.

The same toolset that produces ASM.js can produce WASM. It should be natural 
evolution for the HTML5 deployment to switch from ASM.js based to WASM based. 
This doesn’t make it magical though, this switch alone will not make LC work on 
the browser beyond what they’re currently doing. It needs more work, but it 
should yield smaller files which makes it a better experience.

> On 17 Feb 2021, at 15:30, Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well done Klaus, I was still Googling it! I am in fact looking at articles 
> (e.g. https://blog.bitsrc.io/whats-wrong-with-web-assembly-3b9abb671ec2 
> )  that 
> suggest that despite some very significant users (Google Earth is one), wasm 
> hasn’t exactly conquered the universe in the three years since it was 
> launched.
> 
> Would LC users benefit and/or would it be a massive diversion of scarce 
> development effort? Anyone have any idea?
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 17 Feb 2021, at 15:19, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> To all who are also not familiar witht the gazillion abbreviations,
>> David is talking about -> WebaSseMbly :-)
>> 
>>> Am 17.02.2021 um 16:13 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Anyone know the wasm plans?
>>> 
>>> I’m Woking on a project in collaboration with a number of other platforms 
>>> and partners that are using wasm. Would like to play in the same place with 
>>> LiveCode.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>> ***
>>> 
>>>  
>>> \\   //  
>>>  \\\//  ***
>>>\\\
>>> |||//   ,
>>> |__/
>>> ,,,//\,,o==o
>>> ;
>>> 
>>> Schedule a meeting using this link.
>>> Writing and media work on Media Garden.
>>> 
>>> LinkedIn: David Bovill
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> kl...@major-k.de
>> 
>> 
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Re: LC Roadmap

2021-02-17 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode


> On 16 Feb 2021, at 15:26, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> A sample 'skeleton' app - i.e. complete but not fleshed-out. Initially it 
> would be for a desktop app (the first sequel will cover mobile). It would 
> implement "good practices" for many of the common features, with enough code 
> being there to do something - but the focus should be on the architecture 
> rather than on doing anything useful.

I released:

https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html 


To cover as much of this topic as I felt comfortable doing. The main issue is 
that different experienced developers have different opinions about what is the 
best way to organise an app. LiveCode is very versatile and you can do a really 
great app organisation that is completely different than another great app. We 
don’t have a mothership preferred way of doing that, and I didn’t want to force 
my own bias into people.

I know that some people are deriving great value from Levure, others prefer 
using something else. It is a tricky topic to cover because once you release 
such book, you’re kinda telling all newcomers that the way described in the 
book is the best way to do it. For example, if I went ahead and added a way of 
doing all that without Levure, then some people would think that Levure is 
useless because the only book we have tells you do use something different; if 
I used Levure, then people would think that if you’re not using it, you’re 
doing it wrong.

That is way I stayed into safe topics in that book, I covered stuff that should 
be applicable to many ways of organising your code. Still, I really think 
you’ve surfaced an important vacuum in our community, we lack good and 
documented skeleton apps. The main challenge here is the wording on the e-book, 
it should be clear that there are other equality valid ways of doing things, 
and that is OK to tweak the presented approach or even come up with your own.

Since a lot of this work would involve manipulating stacks and their 
properties, I suspect that this would work better as a multimedia product with 
videos and articles.
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Re: LC Roadmap

2021-02-15 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Folks, 


> On 15 Feb 2021, at 01:46, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andre Garza’s post about his planning to write a book on some aspect of 
> Livecode programming got me thinking about this. First, I think writing books 
> is useful, but the way many busy folks access information on the internet is 
> in more as smaller more targeted bites. I play jazz keyboard. A couple of 
> years ago, I subscribed to a site that gave me access to jazz song sheet 
> music included in video lessons lasting 30-60 minutes each. At the same time, 
> from a couple other  authors, I got regular (about once a week) emails with 
> short free improv techniques that took me 5-10 minutes to read, but with 
> offers (at a cost) that include more in-depth lessons. I find that I use the 
> short lessons a lot and the longer lessons, that I have already paid for with 
> my one year subscription, very little if at all. Perhaps I’m unusual with a 
> very short attention span, but I suspect I'm more typical. I’m suggesting 
> that there are unused marketing and support strategies that could be 
> beneficial to the Livecode enterprise. Check out the macmost site to see what 
> I’m talking about.

I had a great conversation with Richard about this couple weeks ago. We 
definitely feel that there is a need for more content in our community. In my 
own personal and subjective opinion, a real problem with have in LiveCode 
community is that the UX of the website is really bad. The site is quite 
pretty, but things that are useful for LC developers are hard to find. Let me 
illustrate that with an example:

Suppose you want to check some API related thing. You go to the website, click 
“Docs” on the top menu and you’re dropped in a firehose of introductory 
information. That is all great, but where is the online dictionary? How you can 
go from there to finding out about a specific command or function? It is not 
there. The easiest way to get to the dictionary is to go back to the main home 
page, scroll all the way to the bottom and get the dictionary link in the 
footer.

The content is there, but the navigation around that content is bad. The new 
HTML-based dictionary in the IDE is dead slow and has other UX issues such as 
what happens when you press the ENTER/RETURN key in the search field (go ahead, 
try it).

LC is a small company regardless of how much we love them. They can’t provide 
solution to all our needs. It is not because they don’t want to, they have 
limited resources. We can’t treat LC as we treat Apple or Microsoft. I won’t 
dive into the sheer scale of the difference between those entities. We can’t 
compare it with some hugely popular FOSS programming language project such as 
Python. We tend to think that because it is FOSS that it is all done for free 
by a small group of people, it is very easy to fall into the fallacy of saying: 
“look at what those people can achieve for free!”. It is not free and their 
institutional and enterprise backers provide funding and full-time employees 
that are beyond what LC can sum up.

Does that mean that LC has no place? Of course not, even with all those large 
entities competing in a similar space, LiveCode still a fantastic tool and in 
my own opinion, provides unrivalled productivity. 

What I’m saying is that we spend too much time focused into comparing LC with 
other stuff, or complaining about the lack of something. I understand that as 
paying customers we do have expectations and rights. What I want people here to 
understand is that there is no successful programming language community in 
which all resources are provided by a single entity. You need an ecosystem of 
multiple vendors of stuff to make a community. In the case of LiveCode, we need 
people creating and distributing (for a profit or not) libraries, extensions, 
tools, and content.

There is a void to be filled in our community to make it more vibrant and 
useful for ourselves. I know most people here are busy developing their 
products for their clients, but if we don’t at least surface what we’re 
building to one another, then everything becomes too opaque. The practices of 
being a LiveCode developer become a guarded secret, something that you only 
grasp if you stay here long enough and talk to the correct people.

It is with this in mind, that I decided to create content for our community. 
Books are an easy value proposition. Most of our community is beyond their 
thirties and have a fondness (and experience) for the written word and 
documentation. It is easy to sell books here, way easier than in other 
communities which are younger and prefer videos. That doesn’t mean that I can’t 
provide videos as well, damn I’ve graduated with a BA in filmmaking, I’m geared 
to start filming too. Books were the first step. I see myself more as a 
storyteller than a developer, that is why I want to focus on content for my own 
career moving forward. But that is only my own personal journey, 

Re: Anyone able to connect to a PostgreSQL database with lc server?

2021-02-12 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Whatever it was, it is apparently happening on 9.0.4 but fixed in
9.6.2-rc-2, go figure...

I don't have time to dive deep into this, I'm just happy to have it working.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 at 12:42, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> Before I escalate this to HQ, did anyone here was able to connect to a
> postgresql database server using LiveCode Server?
>
> I'm getting a hard crash here. The server is exiting with Signal 11
> (segmentation fault?) on the call to revOpenDatabase. The arguments passed
> to the server are correct. The same app (using RevIgniter) is able to
> connect to MySQL without any problem.
>
> We have a PostgreSQL database to benefit from "jsonb" fields. We can't
> convert it to MySQL.
>
> Best
> Andre
>
> --
> https://www.andregarzia.com 
> Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
>


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Anyone able to connect to a PostgreSQL database with lc server?

2021-02-12 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Folks,

Before I escalate this to HQ, did anyone here was able to connect to a
postgresql database server using LiveCode Server?

I'm getting a hard crash here. The server is exiting with Signal 11
(segmentation fault?) on the call to revOpenDatabase. The arguments passed
to the server are correct. The same app (using RevIgniter) is able to
connect to MySQL without any problem.

We have a PostgreSQL database to benefit from "jsonb" fields. We can't
convert it to MySQL.

Best
Andre

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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-20 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Bill,

:-) that topic is too large for a book to be honest.

What I recommend is actually building a desktop standalone. Forget the web
for that app, push for an app.

Best
A

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 16:20, ELS Prothero <
proth...@earthlearningsolutions.org> wrote:

> Thank you, Andre, for you wisdom. What I take from your comments is if I
> want to develop dynamic interactive web based apps with Livecode, I should
> get up to speed on JavaScript and will need to either use Livecode to
> generate html5, compiled with webAssembly, or find another platform to
> develop the software.
>
> Perhaps this topic is an idea for a short book (hint, hint).
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
>
> > On Jan 20, 2021, at 8:03 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > WebAssembly (aka WASM) is not a silver bullet. It is not something like
> > "you compile to WebAssembly and then PROFIT".
> >
> > WebAssembly and ASM.js (which is what the current HTML5 LC Runtime uses)
> > are very similar. The advantages of WASM is that it is a lot smaller –
> > since it is bytecode and not strings in source code – than ASM.js, also,
> it
> > can be streamed so you can start loading it in the VM before it finishes
> > transferring. Given the same source code in WASM and ASM.js, the WASM one
> > will transfer and load faster, but that is it. One of the main objectives
> > of WASM was to reduce latency between the beginning of the load action
> and
> > having something running.
> >
> > WASM backends have been integrated in many languages – mostly notable
> LLVM
> > – which means that is somewhat doable to compile C/C++ code to WASM. That
> > doesn't mean that all libraries work. WASM has no graphics part. It deals
> > with memory and integers (floats?). It doesn't even have a string type.
> It
> > is basically a small assembly language to be targeted by compilers.
> >
> > Apps made with WASM do not work with just 100% WASM. You always need JS.
> > JavaScript is the glue that links DOM, events, and WASM. What you usually
> > do is have a bunch of JS and then speed up some parts of that code with
> > WASM. WASM can't touch the DOM, WASM can't handle input events. JS and
> WASM
> > are built to complement each other.
> >
> > Most languages targeting WebAssembly deployments have their own "JS
> > Standard library toolkit" so that when you compile, you end up with a
> > combination of WASM and JS files (maybe even HTML).
> >
> > The benefit for LC would be a smaller runtime and faster loading, both
> are
> > great.
> >
> > Just don't believe it is something magical like we were promised in the
> 90s
> > with Java Applets that you'd compile your Java App and it would magically
> > load on the Web. That is not how this works.
> >
> > If you want to learn more about WebAssembly go to the learning area of
> MDN
> > WebDocs:
> >
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly/Concepts#what_is_webassembly
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 15:53, Andre Garzia 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> So,
> >>
> >> Displaying bundled content only (or mostly) allows Apple's static
> analysis
> >> tools to take a look at your app. They can also identify outgoing
> >> connections, so they know if you are opening remote pages. If all you
> do is
> >> display local content, and there is no outgoing connections, then
> security
> >> analysis of your app is easier (also, it works offline from the start
> which
> >> is good). This is not an infalible system, but it works for the average
> >> case.
> >>
> >> As for having an app, that displays external webpages which allow you to
> >> buy stuff might be a violation of Apple TOS. That is why you don't buy
> >> Kindle books on the Kindle app on iOS. Amazon doesn't want to give
> Apple a
> >> cut. An app that advertises itself as a browser has more leeway with
> this
> >> than others. For example it is OK for Mozilla to ship "Firefox" (not
> really
> >> Firefox, more like mozSafari) in iOS even though you can open web pages
> and
> >> buy stuff with it. It is not OK for you to create an app that opens your
> >> webstore and sells stuff.
> >>
> >> I'll write another message about WebAssembly...
> >>
> >> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 12:22, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>

Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-20 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
WebAssembly (aka WASM) is not a silver bullet. It is not something like
"you compile to WebAssembly and then PROFIT".

WebAssembly and ASM.js (which is what the current HTML5 LC Runtime uses)
are very similar. The advantages of WASM is that it is a lot smaller –
since it is bytecode and not strings in source code – than ASM.js, also, it
can be streamed so you can start loading it in the VM before it finishes
transferring. Given the same source code in WASM and ASM.js, the WASM one
will transfer and load faster, but that is it. One of the main objectives
of WASM was to reduce latency between the beginning of the load action and
having something running.

WASM backends have been integrated in many languages – mostly notable LLVM
– which means that is somewhat doable to compile C/C++ code to WASM. That
doesn't mean that all libraries work. WASM has no graphics part. It deals
with memory and integers (floats?). It doesn't even have a string type. It
is basically a small assembly language to be targeted by compilers.

Apps made with WASM do not work with just 100% WASM. You always need JS.
JavaScript is the glue that links DOM, events, and WASM. What you usually
do is have a bunch of JS and then speed up some parts of that code with
WASM. WASM can't touch the DOM, WASM can't handle input events. JS and WASM
are built to complement each other.

Most languages targeting WebAssembly deployments have their own "JS
Standard library toolkit" so that when you compile, you end up with a
combination of WASM and JS files (maybe even HTML).

The benefit for LC would be a smaller runtime and faster loading, both are
great.

Just don't believe it is something magical like we were promised in the 90s
with Java Applets that you'd compile your Java App and it would magically
load on the Web. That is not how this works.

If you want to learn more about WebAssembly go to the learning area of MDN
WebDocs:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly/Concepts#what_is_webassembly



On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 15:53, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> So,
>
> Displaying bundled content only (or mostly) allows Apple's static analysis
> tools to take a look at your app. They can also identify outgoing
> connections, so they know if you are opening remote pages. If all you do is
> display local content, and there is no outgoing connections, then security
> analysis of your app is easier (also, it works offline from the start which
> is good). This is not an infalible system, but it works for the average
> case.
>
> As for having an app, that displays external webpages which allow you to
> buy stuff might be a violation of Apple TOS. That is why you don't buy
> Kindle books on the Kindle app on iOS. Amazon doesn't want to give Apple a
> cut. An app that advertises itself as a browser has more leeway with this
> than others. For example it is OK for Mozilla to ship "Firefox" (not really
> Firefox, more like mozSafari) in iOS even though you can open web pages and
> buy stuff with it. It is not OK for you to create an app that opens your
> webstore and sells stuff.
>
> I'll write another message about WebAssembly...
>
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 12:22, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
>>
>> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable
>> would be a stretch, no? For example, if I had an app that linked to course
>> selections on University websites, are they going to suggest that these
>> could be portals to pedophile shopping sites by entering a secret pass
>> phrase? By the sounds of it, please correct me if I am wrong, no iStore app
>> can link to a website for content regardless of the status of the
>> organization that stands behind the site? H, I still have a lot to
>> learn in this space.
>>
>> Are there any links available to guidelines that describe these
>> limitations?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mark
>>
>> > On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:25 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app that
>> pulls from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile shopping
>> app by entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the data on the web
>> site. (as an extreme example)
>>
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>> subscription preferences:
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>
>
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-20 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
So,

Displaying bundled content only (or mostly) allows Apple's static analysis
tools to take a look at your app. They can also identify outgoing
connections, so they know if you are opening remote pages. If all you do is
display local content, and there is no outgoing connections, then security
analysis of your app is easier (also, it works offline from the start which
is good). This is not an infalible system, but it works for the average
case.

As for having an app, that displays external webpages which allow you to
buy stuff might be a violation of Apple TOS. That is why you don't buy
Kindle books on the Kindle app on iOS. Amazon doesn't want to give Apple a
cut. An app that advertises itself as a browser has more leeway with this
than others. For example it is OK for Mozilla to ship "Firefox" (not really
Firefox, more like mozSafari) in iOS even though you can open web pages and
buy stuff with it. It is not OK for you to create an app that opens your
webstore and sells stuff.

I'll write another message about WebAssembly...

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 12:22, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
>
> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable
> would be a stretch, no? For example, if I had an app that linked to course
> selections on University websites, are they going to suggest that these
> could be portals to pedophile shopping sites by entering a secret pass
> phrase? By the sounds of it, please correct me if I am wrong, no iStore app
> can link to a website for content regardless of the status of the
> organization that stands behind the site? H, I still have a lot to
> learn in this space.
>
> Are there any links available to guidelines that describe these
> limitations?
>
> Thanks
> Mark
>
> > On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:25 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app that
> pulls from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile shopping
> app by entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the data on the web
> site. (as an extreme example)
>
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Bill,

Let me second what Richard said, you'd be better served by building desktop
stack apps than by building web apps. There is no silver bullet for doing
web work, there is no magical technology that makes it as easy as LC. The
Web is a design by committee with various multi-billion companies doing
power plays around it. To be effective on the web, you need to learn HTML,
CSS, and JS. You don't need to be an expert, but you need to learn up to
some intermediate level to do the kind of interactions you are talking
about. The web has quirks and some anachronisms in it but that is because
it can't afford to break compatibility with itself. A website from 1995
needs to be just as valid to the browser as one from 2021. What this means
is that there are still people programming the web as if it still is 1995,
so the quality of material you find online varies a lot. I'm happy that I
know it well but when I need some app on my day to day work, I will more
often turn to LC than building a web solution.

You can build richer experiences more easily by using LC and shipping a
loader standalone than by using LC server without knowing JS.

Kind regards
a

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 13:49, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> But apps that are browsers to bundled content are OK. That is how you get
> Apache Cordova and Phonegap to work.
>
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 02:06, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/18/21 2:20 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>>
>> > Building a single web-based app that avoids the world of all the mobile
>> apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive.
>>
>> I thought mobile stores (Apple, etc) explicitly disallowed apps that
>> were essentially just web browsers to external content.
>>
>> Am I wrong about this?
>>
>> --
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>>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>>
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
But apps that are browsers to bundled content are OK. That is how you get
Apache Cordova and Phonegap to work.

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 02:06, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 1/18/21 2:20 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>
> > Building a single web-based app that avoids the world of all the mobile
> apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive.
>
> I thought mobile stores (Apple, etc) explicitly disallowed apps that
> were essentially just web browsers to external content.
>
> Am I wrong about this?
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.2 RC-2

2021-01-12 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Panos,

Is there a potential ETA for M1 support?

Best
Andre

On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 at 09:13, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.2 RC-2.
>
>
> Getting the Release
> ===
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
> the automatic updater.
>
>
> Release Contents
> 
> LiveCode 9.6.2 RC-2 comes with 5 regression fixes, including:
>
> - Opening Color Picker from modal window no longer causes LC to freeze
> - MacOS Big Sur: fixed display error when switching between card or showing
> a group
> - Fix long pause after closing modal dialog on macOS
>
> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the
> release notes:
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_2/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_2_rc_2.pdf
>
>
> Known issues
> 
> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with
> Cinnamon window manager.
> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS
> yet.
>
>
> Required Software
> =
> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of
> Xcode as follows:
>
>   - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 12.1
> SDK
>   - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 13.2 SDK
>   - macOS 10.15.4+: Xcode 12.1.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 14.1 SDK
>
> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>
> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly
> recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
> version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
> installing it separately.
>
> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple is only accepting apps built
> using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit apps to the
> AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in order to be
> able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>
>
> Feedback
> 
> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
> http://quality.livecode.com/
>
> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>
>
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

2021-01-08 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Panos,

Just updated https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955 with a
screenshot from 9.6.2-rc-1 running on my M1 machine.

I can't reproduce the bug, I guess it is fixed.

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 10:35, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Just a clarification - the bug about dashes in menus in standalones on Big
> Sur is:
>
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23009
>
> and not https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23013
>
> BTW, could someone that has a M1 Mac confirm that in the LC 9.6.2 RC-1 IDE
> there are no dashes in front of the menus - in other words that this bug is
> fixed:
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955
>
> Thank you!
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
>
> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 01:07, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Paul:
> >
> >  > we have several customer who have said
> >  > they are upgrading to M1 laptops
> >
> > Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be
> > popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.
> >
> > (Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on
> > hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too,
> > so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet
> > with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)
> >
> > I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding
> > edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly
> > good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been pushed
> > into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new OS to
> > support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue to
> > serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.
> >
> >  > a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?
> >
> > Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working
> > on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing firm
> > dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since Apple's biz
> > model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense would be good.
> > Especially since third-party addons and widgets also have to keep up
> > with our ecosystem.
> >
> > (Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; I've
> > seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, because
> > glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps often -
> > introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a stable to
> > be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific features in an app,
> > there are times when the RC is more reliable. Nevertheless I really hate
> > to publish anything with an RC; only when forced to do so.)
> >
> > BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in
> > case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Curry Kenworthy
> >
> > Custom Software Development
> > "Better Methods, Better Results"
> > LiveCode Training and Consulting
> > http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> >
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
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Re: LiveCode Advanced Application Architecture eBook price reduced

2021-01-03 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Kee, Lagi, Chip, and Bob,

Thanks again for the kind words. I hope you all enjoy the book. :-)

Let me clarify some things because I can see how people are confused about
me messaging about the book now. So, the book hasn't changed, this is not
an update on the content. This was a price reduction I made because I want
to prepare myself to start selling books on Amazon. You may not be aware
but if I price the book between 1.99 and 9.99 on Amazon, I get 70%
royalties. But, if I price it above 9.99, I get only 35%. This means that I
get more money from pricing it 9.99 than if I price it higher, unless I
price it much higher. Basically, 9.99 gives the the same amount of
royalties as if I priced it 20. That is of course only for Amazon. All the
other players in the market give you 70% regardless of how you price it.
Amazon makes this rule to force the prices down. And before you think this
is good, be aware that this makes it a lot harder to make a living out of
books. Which makes it detrimental to the quality of books being shipped
since an author can't justify working longer or producing a larger book
since they won't be able to charge a fair price. But that is publishing
politics and I won't go too deep into it here, I just thought you folks
should know.

So that little campaign was made to:

* Teach me how to use book brush which is an online tool to create
specialized artwork for book authors/publishers. I used to make the nice
art you might have seen on the FB group or the forum.
* Let me see if people will actually buy a 9.99 book. My leanpub royalties
page (which has some automatic statistical recommendation in it) was
telling me to price the book higher than 20.
* Check if people are OK buying directly from my site, which makes me much
more confident of the process and in control.

I'm working towards switching from being a developer to being a writer.
This is a long process and this was a step forward. The next step is
producing a new LC book from scratch without relying on Leanpub and making
it available in multiple stores. It will probably be a short book, very
focused on some specific topic that I haven't yet decided on.

I believe that we need more books in our community :-)

Kind regards
Andre

On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 23:54, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Sorry maybe it's October 8th  as I think you use American format dates.
>
> Lagi
>
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 00:28, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Friends,
> >
> > I've reduced the price of my LiveCode eBook to £9.99. This book will
> teach
> > you advanced techniques, and contains a ton tips and tricks from a
> seasoned
> > LC developer.
> >
> > Get it from:
> >
> >
> https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Andre
> >
> > --
> > https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
> > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> KIndest Regards Lagi
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LiveCode Advanced Application Architecture eBook price reduced

2020-12-29 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey Friends,

I've reduced the price of my LiveCode eBook to £9.99. This book will teach
you advanced techniques, and contains a ton tips and tricks from a seasoned
LC developer.

Get it from:
https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html

Kind regards
Andre

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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-29 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey Friends,

I'm enjoying this thread a lot. I'll not be the person to tell someone not
to port LC to some new ISA or OS, I think it would be great if LC would run
in BSD. Personally, I don't have the time or even the skillset to help
this, but I'd love to benefit from it. Incidentally this is the exact
mindset that prevents good things from happening because many people want
to benefit from something without actually working towards it but I really
can't work on this. The work that LC HQ has done throughout the years
modernizing the codebase and keeping it all working in multiple systems is
amazing and a feat worth of awards but, don't let the convenience of having
that funky download page with all the versions fool you, building LC is not
that easy especially if you're targeting a new ISA/OS combination.

The ideal way in my humble but educated opinion is for LC GPL to be added
to the ports collection of FreeBSD, this is described in the FreeBSD
porters handbook:

https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/index.html

This is probably not a weekend project and not for the faint of heart. It
will require a lot of work to do this properly, but it can be done.

Before dismissing someone volunteering their own time to work on a FreeBSD
port based on that system's market share remember that Macs used to be a
very small percentage of the market. Under the same rules, LC shouldn't
have focused at all on having it working on Macs, clearly Windows was 90%
of the global marketshare. FreeBSD has a ton of stuff going for it and the
wave of people migrating from Linux towards a BSD experience has been
growing steadily since the encroaching of systemd and other "decisions"
have moved Linux away from a more traditional UNIX experience. Lots of the
shiny things people are doing with Linux have been a part of day to day
life of FreeBSD users much earlier and is usually provided in a more
cohesive experience, such as Jails vs Docker.

I advise people who haven't seen modern FreeBSD workflows to check their
foundation youtube channel, there is a lot of nice in-depth videos there
that might help people see it through new eyes. That being said, I don't
think that LC HQ should dedicate their time to do it, they need to focus on
what produces money regardless of how I or other users here feel about
different operating systems.




On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 at 03:57, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Pi Digital wrote:
>
>  > Here’s my take (for what it’s worth). Although Unix is used in 71.6%
>  > (source: w3techs.com) of all known websites as of today and Linux only
>  > 29.0%, at least we have ‘a’ distro that works on some server.
>
> That struck me as odd, so I took a moment to see how they derived that
> impressive Unix number (thanks for including the source).
>
> It turns out they're lumping Unix and Linux together under "Unix" - when
> you click "Unix" you get this breakdown:
>
> Subcategories of Unix
>
> This diagram shows the percentages of websites using various
> subcategories of Unix.
>
> How to read the diagram:
> Linux is used by 40.5% of all the websites who use Unix
>
> Websites who use Unix
> Linux   40.5%
> BSD 0.5%
> Darwin less than 0.1%
> HP-UX  less than 0.1%
> Solarisless than 0.1%
> Minix  less than 0.1%
> Unknown59.0%
>
> I'd wager most of the 59% using "Unknown" are also Linux.
>
> That would line up well enough with what we see at the Wikipedia page
> for server OS market share:
>
>Linux   FreeBSDUnknown  Windows
> W3Cook July 201596.4% 1.7%   0%  1.9%
> W3TechsFeb  201535.9%   0.95%   30.9%   32.3%
> Security Space  Feb 2014   <79.3% N/A   >20.7%
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Public_servers_on_the_Internet
>
> While Windows has a strong showing in the enterprise for internal
> servers, public-facing servers are by far a Linux story.
>
> This is not only true for most shared and VPS hosting, but public clouds
> as well, with Google, Amazon, and Apple all using Linux to drive their
> infrastructure, and even though Azure is a Win/Linux mix there's a
> surprising amount of Linux going on there (with Ubuntu being the leading
> choice inside containers).
>
> I bring this up not just because I'm a Linux fanboy (though I am and
> make no apologies; I was even worse when I used to be a Mac fanboy ),
> but just as a long-winded way to help support your main thesis:
>
> Aside from new architectures like Linux ARM (Raspberry Pi), the most
> commonly-used platforms where LiveCode Serer would be used are well
> supported.
>
> So, as you wrote:
>
>  > Seriously, if anyone was considering doing this, please..., please,
>  > reconsider and put your efforts and talent into fixing what we already
>  > have. It would be far more 

Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-28 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 21:31, Paul McClernan via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> >
> > OS X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several variations
> > of Unix (I think is just means Linux)".
> >
> > I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server,
> > but I didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to compile
> it.
> > Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)?
> >
>
> As others mentioned, this is dated information. However, last I checked
> macOS (or rather the "Darwin" layer of macOS) is POSIX compliant and built
> from BSD UNIX 4.4 & bits of FreeBSD. So, I would not be all that surprised
> if a LiveCode for macOS GUI-less/CLI executable could run on some other
> BSD.
>
>
That is not really how this works.

macOS is built on top of old NEXTSTEP and it is POSIX compliant but
that doesn't mean that LC from mac can work on BSD. MacOS uses the XNU
kernel, its executable file format and shared library file format are
unique and not related at all to anything that a BSD can run.

FreeBSD can run Linux binaries though as can be seen in the FreeBSD
Handbook:

https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/linuxemu.html

This is done through emulation and I can't vouch for the performance or
correctness of it but, in theory you can install the necessary components
and libraries and then be able to run the Linux version of LC in FreeBSD.

Another option is trying to build from source. To be effective, this would
require knowledge of the FreeBSD ports and packages system besides knowing
enough of LC source and C++ to patch anything needed. I bet they'd love
such a contribution if you have the chops to do it.


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Re: Anyone archived the information from http://andregarzia.com/async.irev

2020-10-12 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Friends,

I looked in my archives here but I can't find that post. I probably did
that just to solve the size limitation for the forum and failed to archive
it anywhere. I think that content was lost :-(

If this is a topic that you folks feel is under-explored, I could come up
with a new post or video.

Best
a

On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 at 00:23, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 10/11/20 9:46 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
> > Matthias:
> > Try:
> https://use-livecode.runrev.narkive.com/faoKGyaT/revserver-tips-spreading-the-load-or-why-wise-developers-use-asynchronous-workflows
> <
> https://use-livecode.runrev.narkive.com/faoKGyaT/revserver-tips-spreading-the-load-or-why-wise-developers-use-asynchronous-workflows
> >
>
> Bill-
>
> That's an interesting archive. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, I'd
> completely forgotten that discussion.
>
> Any idea why narkive stopped collecting posts two years ago?
>
> --
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>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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Re: Getting URL to Work in specialFolderDocuments

2020-10-05 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Aloha,

The last "put" command is wrong. This one:

>   put URL (tHttpsServerRoot & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle &
".livecode") into tLocalDocumentsStories & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle
& ".livecode"

It should have been:

   put URL (tHttpsServerRoot & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle &
".livecode") into ("binfile:" & tLocalDocumentsStories & sStoryTitle & "/"
& sStoryTitle & ".livecode")

Also, there is a strange comment before the word "into" when you're setting
tHttpsServerRoot.

Best
A

On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 19:01, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> on dataServerStack
>local tHttpsServerRoot,tLocalDocumentsStories
>put "https://dev.himalayanacademy.com/media/stories/; --into
> tHttpsServerRoot
>put specialFolderPath("Documents") & "/SivaSivaApp/media/stories/" into
> tLocalDocumentsStories
>put URL (tHttpsServerRoot & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle &
> ".livecode") into tLocalDocumentsStories & sStoryTitle & "/" & sStoryTitle
> & ".livecode"
> end dataServerStack 
>
> it goes badly to documents folder,
>
> ?
>
> BR
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: ICS Generation

2020-10-02 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
There is https://github.com/soapdog/livecode-vobjectlib it is fairly easy
to use but it is best if you use it while reading the specs because it is a
bit low-level.

On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 01:30, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> On 02/10/2020 00:11, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> > Thanks Alex. I already downloaded the git zip file. I’ll have a look.
> >
> Oh yeah, it's on github - I'd forgotten that :-)
>
> But I haven't used it since (I think) LC 5.5 - so if you bump into any
> issues, please drop me anote.
>
> Thanks
>
> Alex.
>
>
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Re: sudo apt-get install livecode

2020-09-14 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
The problem with the installers is that the LC binaries are linked with
specific versions of the shared libraries in the system. If you have a
different version, or the library has a different name in that system, then
there is a chance that LC will not run correctly (and by not run I mean not
run at all). For example, here in our server, LC is linked against:

$ ldd livecode-community-server
linux-vdso.so.1 (0x7ffcee51b000)
libdl.so.2 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdl.so.2 (0x7f617d849000)
libpthread.so.0 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0
(0x7f617d62a000)
libfreetype.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libfreetype.so.6
(0x7f617d376000)
libfontconfig.so.1 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libfontconfig.so.1
(0x7f617d131000)
librt.so.1 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/librt.so.1 (0x7f617cf29000)
libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6
(0x7f617cba)
libm.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6 (0x7f617c802000)
libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x7f617c5ea000)
libc.so.6 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x7f617c1f9000)
/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x7f617da4d000)
libpng16.so.16 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpng16.so.16
(0x7f617bfc7000)
libz.so.1 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so.1 (0x7f617bdaa000)
libexpat.so.1 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libexpat.so.1 (0x7f617bb78000)

Of course the engine for the IDE and desktop apps (alongside the externals)
links with more libraries than what is shown here. What having real .deb
and .rpm would allow on Linux is to get the correct library versions
installed at the same time as the LC installation is running because the
package manager would know which dependencies were needed for LC to work.
Right now, if something fails on Linux, you need to be savvy enough to
check libraries and then install the correct ones. Another solution for
that would be to generate AppImages which are quite similar to Application
Bundles from macOS in the sense that they are a package of files disguised
as a single file and contains everything an app needs to run. In the case
of Linux appimages they'll even contain the shared libraries inside them
which makes them quite large but easier to run.

On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 at 20:07, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> That is a good point.
> The same could be said for the Apple store, the Windows store and the
> Ubuntu thing.
>
> On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 9:54 pm Mark Wieder via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > On 9/14/20 10:47 AM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
> >
> > > Also: why is the installer app "silly"? It is no worse or no better
> > > than  the installer apps for Macintosh and Windows,
> > > and I, for one, have no real problem with any of them.
> >
> > Having "real" installers (.deb, .rpm) would enable LiveCode to get into
> > the various repositories and thus get more exposure.
> >
> > --
> >   Mark Wieder
> >   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> >
> > ___
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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Also folks, EPIC didn't do that because "they thought they could get away
with it". These are all strategic attacks at Apple at the same time that
the EU is looking to maybe mount an antitrust case against them. So you
have multiple companies taking action that will either prompt a reaction
from Apple and make Apple look as bad as it actually is, or set a precedent
that can be explored later. Facebook note about App Stores, Protonmail,
EPIC, all that has a reason to be happening now. I believe soon other
companies will pull similar stunts and Apple will yield their banhammer.
Then these companies can use their cases as bullet points for the antitrust
case that is brewing.

This was not a "spur of the moment" thing for EPIC. Remember the size of
EPIC and how fast it came out with the "nineteen eighty fortnite" ad that
mimics Apple's 1984 ad against IBM. That Ad took a long time to be
produced, there is no reason to make it if you're not sure that Apple will
remove your app. This is a strategic attack to mount antitrust case, two
massive companies spitting at each other.

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 at 18:02, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> People are missing something here.
>
> Apple allows programs from Argos, Sams, Amazon (not books) , Free software
> access for the yearly fee of $99.
>
> They take 30% the FIRST years and subsequently 15% - that second figure to
> me is the important one.
>
> You have access to that market and IF you have a successful product you
> reap the ongoing benefits.
>
> If You sell 100 Apps in the first year and you are charging $5 I
> don't think it matters whether you get 70% or 100% your product has failed.
>
> If you sell a $10,000  worth in the second year you get $8500 without
> having to spend as much on advertising.
>
> The elephant in the room is Google - they charge 30% by just  copying
> Apple's charges and because Google hasn't budged in 12 years Apple has no
> reason to either.
>
> A bit of maths 100% of Zilch is still Zilch. (expletive deleted for the
> snowflakes/woke/offended crowd ;-) )
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceS_jkKjIgo
>
> As Sean said :-
>
> "If EPIC follow the rules they lose 30% income but gain millions of
> potential users. If they choose not to, they get kicked off and gain
> nothing! They're just being dumb while thinking they are winning some moral
> high-ground (which does not exist)"
>
> If I were a betting man i'd say EPIC will blink first.
>
> Lagi
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 at 15:45, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > It's all a pointless debate. Apple can do what it likes with THEIR
> > *platform*! if YOU _choose_ not to agree with their policies for use on
> > THEIR platform, YOU can _choose_ to go elsewhere.
> >
> > The same or similar issues come up with ALL brands! Google, Samsung,
> Nike,
> > AT, Ford, Cadbury, so on and so on and so on.
> >
> > If EPIC follow the rules they lose 30% income but gain millions of
> > potential users. If they choose not to, they get kicked off and gain
> > nothing! They're just being dumb while thinking they are winning some
> moral
> > high-ground (which does not exist).
> >
> > Andre, What on earth are you talking about regards browsers? There is a
> > crapload of other browsers to choose from on ALL platforms, including
> iOS.
> > They all play happily by the rules. Which ones are you talking about that
> > can't get onto Apple because they choose not to follow the rules of that
> > one low market share platform? 'Brave' is a new one that offers in-app
> > purchase following the rules. All of the other 'top players' are there.
> I'm
> > sure any you are talking about are run by juveniles that have a pile of
> > rattles laying around their prams. ;)
> >
> > Myself, I'd be glad to see the back of ALL of them. But in this 'world
> > order' that won't happen. Someone else will just rise up in their place.
> > Better the 'devils' you know for now!
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 at 15:04, Kee Nethery via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Bypassing Apple in app purchasing is technically trivial, plenty of
> apps
> > > have done it for years and they have followed the App Store rules when
> > > doing so. Physical services (eg Plumbers) and physical products (eg
> > Amazon)
> > > they cannot use Apple IAP. Digital goods and services (eg Epic) are
> > > required to use IAP. Those are the terms of service. Of course Epic got
> > > booted. Nothing surprising about it other than that they thought they
> > would
> > > get away with it.
> > >
> > > Kee Nethery
> > >
> > > > On Aug 14, 2020, at 2:32 AM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Waaah, now even EPIC with Fortnite has been kicked off the appstore,
> > > > because they found a way to sell things past the appstore. And then
> > Apple
> > > > don't get 

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Sean,

> Andre, What on earth are you talking about regards browsers? There is a
> crapload of other browsers to choose from on ALL platforms, including iOS.
> They all play happily by the rules. Which ones are you talking about that
> can't get onto Apple because they choose not to follow the rules of that
> one low market share platform? 'Brave' is a new one that offers in-app
> purchase following the rules. All of the other 'top players' are there.
I'm
> sure any you are talking about are run by juveniles that have a pile of
> rattles laying around their prams. ;)


I am talking specifically about iOS and about the fact that every single
browser on iOS is running the same engine as Safari, even Firefox. Believe
me, I know browsers more than most people on this list. I know Brave
founders; we had beers together last year. I actually met and in some cases
even collaborated with engineers from every single major browser. Heck, a
feature I made for Firefox became so popular that Google adopted the same
feature and came to tell me that in person during the DWeb Summit 2018.

Apple doesn't allow any other engine on iOS, every single browser is
WebKit. Chrome, Brave, Firefox, they are all WebKit on iOS. You can add
features on top of it, but you can't replace the engine with your engine.
So Google can't ship Blink and Mozilla can't ship Gecko on iOS. We used to
joke that Firefox for iOS should be called MozSafari. The reason those
companies are shipping browsers on iOS even though they are prohibited from
shipping their own engines is because they want to:

1 - They have a presence in the platform. This is a marketing/strategic
reason to keep your brand awareness strong with that platform users.
2 - So they can add their own services on top such as bookmark
synchronizing. This is beneficial for the users and the vendor. The fear
vendors have that the users might migrate to full Safari on mobile and then
on Desktop as well is reason enough to compell them to work even with these
limitations.

It used to be worse. Not long ago Apple had an engine that you were allowed
to use for your apps and used a more modern one for Safari on iOS. That
caused every single other browser to perform worse than Safari on iOS. That
is no longer the case but it was true up to not a couple years ago. As for
engines, Apple took KHTML from the KDE project and created WebKit and
Safari. Google picked WebKit and had a divergence with Apple, so they
created Blink. With the exception of Firefox which uses Gecko, and Safari
that uses WebKit, most of the other browsers are all Blink based, that
means that Chrome, Microsoft Edge, Opera, Vivaldi, Samsung Internet, are
all running the same engine. I wrote about it in 2018:

  https://andregarzia.com/2018/12/while-we-blink-we-lose-the-web.html

This is a problem and it plays a role in the whole antitrust and fair play
conversation regarding iOS. Reading things like "It is their platform, you
can either agree or go somewhere else" is naive. The lives of millions are
passing through these devices, we need better legal tools to make companies
accountable. If Microsoft tried to pull such a stunt of not allowing any
other browser engine on Windows, the EU commission would wrath would be
upon them as fast as lightning, iOS shouldn't be different.

Best
Andre





On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 at 15:46, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> It's all a pointless debate. Apple can do what it likes with THEIR
> *platform*! if YOU _choose_ not to agree with their policies for use on
> THEIR platform, YOU can _choose_ to go elsewhere.
>
> The same or similar issues come up with ALL brands! Google, Samsung, Nike,
> AT, Ford, Cadbury, so on and so on and so on.
>
> If EPIC follow the rules they lose 30% income but gain millions of
> potential users. If they choose not to, they get kicked off and gain
> nothing! They're just being dumb while thinking they are winning some moral
> high-ground (which does not exist).
>
> Andre, What on earth are you talking about regards browsers? There is a
> crapload of other browsers to choose from on ALL platforms, including iOS.
> They all play happily by the rules. Which ones are you talking about that
> can't get onto Apple because they choose not to follow the rules of that
> one low market share platform? 'Brave' is a new one that offers in-app
> purchase following the rules. All of the other 'top players' are there. I'm
> sure any you are talking about are run by juveniles that have a pile of
> rattles laying around their prams. ;)
>
> Myself, I'd be glad to see the back of ALL of them. But in this 'world
> order' that won't happen. Someone else will just rise up in their place.
> Better the 'devils' you know for now!
>
> Sean
>
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 at 15:04, Kee Nethery via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Bypassing Apple in app purchasing is technically trivial, plenty of apps
> > have done it for 

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-09 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
> Do Apple's actions and policies monopolistically harm consumers?

Yes it does. There is a ton of innovation that is user friendly that is
prevented from being present in iOS due to Apples practices. A simple
example is new browser engines, you can't have them. Which means you can't
have more private engines than what Safari uses. This also makes it harder
to bring lots of API innovation to iOS which would benefit users because it
would allow for better and more powerful web apps.

Since you can't sideload apps, you as a user need to have Apple permission
before installing software on the device you purchased and should own. You
as a developer are allowed to sell software outside of Apple's blessing,
even if you have customers interested in the software you make. Apple is a
gatekeeper and a very picky one.

Gatekeepers are harmful to consumers and sellers. Since you as a developer
can't simply compile software and sell it own your own page without Apple
double blessing, you're not really in control of your platform and Apple
may exercise the right to cut you out of the platform at any time. This is
harmful.

> Consumer behavior itself argues against that. Quite the contrary,
consumers are willing to pay a premium for Apple products and services

That is totally not true because you can't measure it. You can't measure
"iOS with a more open ecosystem" vs "iOS with its current draconian
ecosystem" because that you don't have the more open version to match it
against the current one. The choice here is not between Apple and Android.
Apple could still offer the same software, services, and hardware, and be
more open. People would still choose them. No one chooses the option with
less options and gatekeepers if they have an alternative. The tight
integration between iOS and macOS devices is wonderful and people are happy
to pay a premium for such quality. If you ask any Apple user why they buy
Apple, no one will answer: "Because I like the way they don't allow
developers to compete with Apple itself" which is why the EU and other
companies are crying wolf in the direction of one infinite loop. People
will say they choose Apple because of the attention to detail, the quality
of service, hardware, and software, none of which would be gone if Apple
was more open.

The key to understand this is that all that you like about Apple can still
be there, including the App store. If you want to stay in an environment
like what we have today, it should be possible to do so. But you should
also have options for when you want to step outside. There should be
alternative stores or alternative ways to distribute software.

I'm not saying "burn iOS and Apple". I'm saying the current practices
benefit no one but Apple and are harmful to a healthy ecosystem. They could
still be Apple and not be a bully. For example, the need of notarizing apps
is going to make distributing FOSS on macOS a bit harder. Once Apple moves
to its own ARM CPUs, it will be harder for every third-party vendor to
compete with Apple solutions as they'll be able to cram custom silicon like
T2 and lock down the machine in a way that has not been done in ages.

If I was LC I'd be throwing some more people into making sure LC runs
really well under Linux and Windows, both of which are second class
citizens when compared to macOS. Heck the IDE under windows is horribly
slow, I have no idea how it performs under Linux. When dealing with Apple
you always need a plan b.

On Sat, 8 Aug 2020 at 22:16, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> BrianM wrote:
> > One thing that seems to be missing in this discussion is the point of
> view of the ?client?, the one who downloads the app and pays for it
>
> True.
> In the U.S. the laws against monopoly (the Sherman Act of 1890, the
> Clayton Act of 1914 and the Federal Trade Commission Act of 1914) are there
> to promote competition amongst companies for the benefit of consumers.   Or
> our end users.
>
> Do Apple's actions and policies monopolistically harm consumers? Consumer
> behavior itself argues against that. Quite the contrary, consumers are
> willing to pay a premium for Apple products and services.
>
> Andre notes that Apple exercises a monopoly WITHIN the iOS system. But
> that is a misnomer. Apple has a proprietary system not a monopolistic one.
> And they strictly control it. It's simply not true that "there is nothing
> iOS users can do about that." Yes, there is. Consumers who don't want to
> buy into Apple’s closed system are free to buy elsewhere. Consumers can
> choose Android or any other alternative products. No one is forcing
> consumers to buy and use Apple products, which is what would happen if
> Apple had an actual monopoly. In fact, some consumers prefer Apple's strict
> proprietary control and are willing to pay mucho dinero for it.
>
> Now look at it from the developers' point of view. Apple makes us jump
> through many more hoops than Android developers do. Apple 

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-09 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
People saying that there are Apple competitors in the App Store are missing
some crucial details. First, since Apple takes 30% cut of all ecommerce
that passes through it, it basically means that competitors can't really
compete with Apple owns offers that don't need to go through that fee.
Imagine if you sold a product and all your direct competitors also gave you
30% of their earnings. They can't really compete.

Another problem is that Apple will change/tweak iOS APIs to benefit their
own services, that is expected but it is not fair. If you control the
device, the operating system, the programming languages, and the
marketplace, and a lot of services, you can make them move together and
competition be damned. This was the case with browsers, Apple allowed its
own Safari browser to use a more modern and powerful webengine and forced
every single other browser to use an outdated webview. This is no longer
the case but this was the case for years.

You can't compete when Apple can pull the rug from under your feet for
their benefit. They can cite whatever reason they want since there is no
oversight and they are not really accountable to any agency or standard
body. This affects LiveCode and every single other third party app creation
toolkit. Apple can simply create a boatload of new API changes in tandem
with their services and only tell third-party vendors when it is to late to
ship a competitor in time. While you're busy patching your software to
please the App Store Gods, Apple is there poaching your users to their
service. The only time they failed to do that was with the dumpster fire
that was Apple Maps.

As Richard said, our current wording and practices regarding monopolies,
and other unhealthful industry practices, is outdated and was not meant to
serve the 21st Century. They were created when factories and physical goods
and in-person services were the most advanced stuff out there. They were
never meant to cope with the advances of the information age. Even with the
little bells splitting and other similar cases, current day monopolies and
unhealthful companies don't exactly match what we have been told a monopoly
should look like while still benefiting from monopoly-like advantages.

There is no such thing as a good company. Companies exist for their own
benefit and the benefit of those who own shares in it. Apple PR machine
makes it sound like a fantastic thing, it is not, it is just a company. For
example the whole privacy angle that Apple is exploring now is just an
attack on Google because no way that Google can counter any of that since
it is an ad revenue company, it can't play the privacy card. You might like
the products, you might make a living out of them, that is OK, but don't
believe that Apple is nothing but another ruthless and aggressive SV
company that will bring its "attention" to you if you try to make it
relinquish even an ounce of control over its monopoly.

A lot of your life passes through these devices. Developers and users need
more agency over them.

On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 at 06:53, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> This:
> "PC and Mac users have assumed for decades that they could choose whatever
> they wanted to see, hear, and play on their own computers. But with iOS,
> Apple tried to avoid surrendering that level of openness, at least for
> content viewed through native apps."
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On August 8, 2020 9:20:32 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> > "Apple’s antitrust woes stem from its obsessions with control and money"
> >
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/08/07/apples-antitrust-woes-stem-from-its-obsessions-with-control-and-money/
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Brian,

It is not about Apple allowing clones. It is about Apple opening iOS for
other stores. Every other platform has multiple app stores, for example, on
my Samsung Galaxy Note 8 I have Play Store, Galaxy Store, F-Droid, and some
apps that were sideloaded after being purchased/downloaded from the web.

Apple with its monopoly of what can run on iOS has been preventing not only
any app that would compete with their own apps (such as alternative web
engines) but also using double standards to enforce their ruling, favouring
rich clients and hurting small ISVs, such as the case of protonmail and
others. If Apple decides iOS is not a place for your software, you're dead.
If Google decides you can't be on Play Store, you can still place your app
on other stores and ship them from your website yourself.

On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 19:28, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Not sure the question is relevant.  You chose to buy the iHouse over the
> droidHouse for some reason.  Maybe you wanted to live in the neighborhood
> with the lowest crime rate.
>
> Also, until Apple is forced to allow other companies to make compatible
> phones, I don’t see how the logic works.  Google doesn’t make the only
> Android phone.
>
> When I read Apple’s guidelines I don’t see anything about price parity.
> You can’t point out that it is cheaper elsewhere, but are you required to
> charge the same?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> >> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
> > monopoly.
> >> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> > policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
> >
> > There is another way to approach this. Apple has the monopoly of the iOS
> > market, they can dictate and abuse their authority in that market and
> there
> > is nothing iOS users can do about that. There is no other app store to
> buy
> > apps from. Now contrast that with Android. Google doesn't have the
> monopoly
> > on Android. You have other app stores besides Google Play, other device
> > makers, and as a developer you can ship apps on your own and on all or
> any
> > of the stores.
> >
> > If you allow me an analogy, imagine that you bought an iHouse, it is a
> > pleasant house, very elegant. Still, all the furniture, all the food,
> > everything you might ever want to put inside your iHouse needs to come
> from
> > Apple Store. Is that still your house? Does Apple have a monopoly?
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 18:20, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> "A monopoly refers to when a company and its product offerings dominate
> a
> >> sector or industry. Monopolies can be considered an extreme result of
> >> free-market capitalism <
> >> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp> in that absent any
> >> restriction or restraints, a single company or group becomes large
> enough
> >> to own all or nearly all of the market (goods, supplies, commodities,
> >> infrastructure, and assets) for a particular type of product or service.
> >> The term monopoly is often used to describe an entity that has total or
> >> near-total control of a market.”
> >> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp
> >>
> >> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
> >> monopoly.
> >> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> >> policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
> >>
> >> Jim Lambert
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
> > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Stephen,

Web Apps don't level the playing field because Apple controls the web
engine on iOS. They don't allow any other web engine on the platform, so if
they don't implement an API that would hurt their monopoly for whatever
reason their PR machine uses as justification, we end up with a weaker web
platform.

Apple has done some superb stuff recently with their browser. Their
adoption of the webextensions API alone is a major victory for me. Still
hold all the keys and without competition it becomes hard to advance
something.




On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 19:50, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I thought "web apps" were going to level the playing field, and they could
> be made to look just like iPhone apps on an iPhone, one just rigs the css
> and graphics.  How did that work out?   I do love Livecode
> serverbrilliant.
>
> (full disclosure,  I hate using phones for stuff I can do on a desktop, a
> big reason why I gave up development except for desktop apps I make to
> support my other activities )
>
> ( I make video too, and will not do 'portrait' mode under any circumstances
> )
>
> (I'm watching Lewis Black as I type this, pardon my tone)
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 11:27 AM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Not sure the question is relevant.  You chose to buy the iHouse over the
> > droidHouse for some reason.  Maybe you wanted to live in the neighborhood
> > with the lowest crime rate.
> >
> > Also, until Apple is forced to allow other companies to make compatible
> > phones, I don’t see how the logic works.  Google doesn’t make the only
> > Android phone.
> >
> > When I read Apple’s guidelines I don’t see anything about price parity.
> > You can’t point out that it is cheaper elsewhere, but are you required to
> > charge the same?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jim,
> > >
> > >> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually
> have a
> > > monopoly.
> > >> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> > > policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
> > >
> > > There is another way to approach this. Apple has the monopoly of the
> iOS
> > > market, they can dictate and abuse their authority in that market and
> > there
> > > is nothing iOS users can do about that. There is no other app store to
> > buy
> > > apps from. Now contrast that with Android. Google doesn't have the
> > monopoly
> > > on Android. You have other app stores besides Google Play, other device
> > > makers, and as a developer you can ship apps on your own and on all or
> > any
> > > of the stores.
> > >
> > > If you allow me an analogy, imagine that you bought an iHouse, it is a
> > > pleasant house, very elegant. Still, all the furniture, all the food,
> > > everything you might ever want to put inside your iHouse needs to come
> > from
> > > Apple Store. Is that still your house? Does Apple have a monopoly?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 18:20, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> "A monopoly refers to when a company and its product offerings
> dominate
> > a
> > >> sector or industry. Monopolies can be considered an extreme result of
> > >> free-market capitalism <
> > >> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp> in that absent
> any
> > >> restriction or restraints, a single company or group becomes large
> > enough
> > >> to own all or nearly all of the market (goods, supplies, commodities,
> > >> infrastructure, and assets) for a particular type of product or
> service.
> > >> The term monopoly is often used to describe an entity that has total
> or
> > >> near-total control of a market.”
> > >> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp
> > >>
> > >> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually
> have a
> > >> monopoly.
> > >> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> > >> policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
> > >>
> > >> Jim Lambert
> 

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Jim,

> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
monopoly.
> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.

There is another way to approach this. Apple has the monopoly of the iOS
market, they can dictate and abuse their authority in that market and there
is nothing iOS users can do about that. There is no other app store to buy
apps from. Now contrast that with Android. Google doesn't have the monopoly
on Android. You have other app stores besides Google Play, other device
makers, and as a developer you can ship apps on your own and on all or any
of the stores.

If you allow me an analogy, imagine that you bought an iHouse, it is a
pleasant house, very elegant. Still, all the furniture, all the food,
everything you might ever want to put inside your iHouse needs to come from
Apple Store. Is that still your house? Does Apple have a monopoly?



On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 18:20, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> "A monopoly refers to when a company and its product offerings dominate a
> sector or industry. Monopolies can be considered an extreme result of
> free-market capitalism <
> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp> in that absent any
> restriction or restraints, a single company or group becomes large enough
> to own all or nearly all of the market (goods, supplies, commodities,
> infrastructure, and assets) for a particular type of product or service.
> The term monopoly is often used to describe an entity that has total or
> near-total control of a market.”
> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp
>
> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
> monopoly.
> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
>
> Jim Lambert
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Antti,

Android has 85% of the world market, it all depends on which country you're
selling and which metrics you're using. In the U.S. iOS has 58% of the
smartphone market and 63% of the tablet market. Another important factor is
that iOS users spend more money on apps than their Android peers. So for
those selling mobile apps whose primary market is the U.S. it makes sense
to ship to iOS.

On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 08:50, Antti Ilola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> If Apple is so horrible, why do you do software to them and I think that
> Apple has no monopoly, since Android shares 85% of the phone market.
>
> Antti
>
> to 6. elok. 2020 klo 22.23 JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode (
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com) kirjoitti:
>
> > Wow, that's heavy Jacque.
> > I'm not at all against Apple products, although it may seem like it
> > sometimes. I'm against how they work, making it more and more difficult.
> > I'm for a safe store too. But this is grabbing money from wherever they
> > can.
> >
> > Op do 6 aug. 2020 om 20:53 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > > I've been working on mobile apps for a non-profit publishing house.
> Their
> > > customers are large
> > > organizations that buy products in bulk and then resell to their own
> > > customers. Thus, the app
> > > does not sell to users at all, nor does our client.
> > >
> > > I made a minor mistake in one of my progress spinners; the
> > > briefly-displayed prompt (less than
> > > 1 second) said "Checking your purchases..." and Apple glommed onto that
> > > and wouldn't let go. My
> > > client and I spent 3 weeks and innumerable emails to Apple to convince
> > > them that users were not
> > > purchasing any products from the company who sponsored the software,
> nor
> > > could they buy
> > > products from any web site related to the company. We had to answer two
> > > different
> > > purchasing-related questionaires in great detail. They finally relented
> > > when we convinced them;
> > > I changed the prompt to "Checking your library..." and it didn't hurt
> > that
> > > we got a different
> > > reviewer.
> > >
> > > Google, who has some similar but less-stringent rules in the Play
> Store,
> > > accepted the app the
> > > first time without any objections.
> > >
> > > Word to the wise: if your app doesn't deal with sales, even indirectly,
> > > don't use money-related
> > > words anywhere. I hope the EU nails them; I consider App Store policies
> > > equivalent to
> > > extortion. Apple holds the majority of mobile users in the U.S. and the
> > > App Store is the only
> > > available outlet for apps. That sounds like a monopoly to me.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/6/20 11:46 AM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode wrote:
> > > > Hmpff i just read in the news that even Microsoft can't bring out an
> > > xcloud
> > > > application due to the apple store rules. What a mess. Only Android
> > users
> > > > will be able to stream games as mentioned on dutch tweakers.net
> > > website. I
> > > > think it's going to cost MS to much money to pay Apple ifvthey would
> > > bring
> > > > out the app on Apple's store.
> > > >
> > > > Op wo 5 aug. 2020 02:10 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> > > >
> > > >> JeeJeeStudio wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>   > 1 positive thing then on a thing we don't have in LC and now
> also
> > is
> > > >>   > removed...the possibility to put ads in your LC created mobile
> > > app...
> > > >>
> > > >> "Possible" is a big word. It covers nearly everything.
> > > >>
> > > >> It's possible to use LC Build to support ad network APIs.
> > > >>
> > > >> It's also possible to find saner ad networks that offer REST APIs in
> > > >> addition to binary, so devs don't need to commit as much development
> > > >> time for one vendor.
> > > >>
> > > >> It's possible but less likely that an app not worth monetizing
> through
> > > >> freemiums, direct payment, or other model will earn enough to bring
> a
> > > >> positive ROI for the effort of implementing ads.
> > > >>
> > > >> It's less likely that you'll be able to shoe-horn someone else's ads
> > > >> into your app design without impairing the user experience.
> > > >>
> > > >> Lots of things are possible.  Fewer things are likely.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >>Richard Gaskin
> > > >>Fourth World Systems
> > > >>Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the
> > Web
> > > >>
> > 
> > > >>ambassa...@fourthworld.com
> > http://www.FourthWorld.com
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > >> subscription preferences:
> > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > > >>
> > > > 

Re: Object naming

2020-07-27 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Alex,

I think that Mark solution is the correct one but I couldn't resist telling
you some other idea, one that is only applicable if performance is not a
problem.

You can add custom properties to controls you want to find later and then
look for them by looping everyone in the card. A reusable short function
can be created with whatever letter you want, like "q", and code similar to
this:

function q selector, value
  repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls in this card
if the selector of control x of this card is value then
  return the long id of control x of this card
end if
  end repeat
end function

And then you can go:

put q("blue-rect", "true") into tLongID

You can even have something like "qq" that returns a list of long ids for
all the controls that match that query. Caching these results is the best
architecture, on preOpenCard you can find all the controls you'll need and
place them in script local arrays, then all the functions that need them
can peek into those arrays.

It is a bit convoluted but allows for some clever programming. Remembering
that "clever" is one of the trickster spirits of the software development
world.

Best
A

On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 at 01:33, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I think my head is melting :-)
>
> I have a group called 'A'.
>
> Inside A, there is a rect called "R" and also a group called "B"
>
> inside B there is a rect called "R"
>
> How do I refer unambiguously to the first rectangle (i.e. A - R, not A -
> B - R) ?
>
> If I say
> grc "R" of grp "B" of grp A
> then I unambiguously get A-B-R; but if I say simply
> grc "R" of grp "A"
> then I *also* get A-B-R.
>
> There must be a way to do this (and maybe if it wasn't nearly 2 in the
> morning I would be able to figure it out).
>
> Help! Please !
>
> Alex.
>
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: ANN: FieldGroup - a simple rich text editor field.

2020-07-23 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Dear Alex,

This is great! Thanks for sharing! :D

On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 at 01:10, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I'd like to announce the Beta (i.e. v0.1) release of my simple rich text
> field. Currently it's not on Github or anywhere sensible - it's just on
> my own download site (see URL at end of this email).
>
> I'd be happy if anyone finds it useful, and / or has feedback that might
> make it useful.
>
>
> FieldGroup - a rich text editor field for Livecode.
>
> Actually, as the old joke goes, it's not really "rich" text, just
> comfortably off. :-)
>
> That is, it supports only some fairly basic features compared to a
> fully-featured rich text editor.
>
> Supported features include :
>   - multi-level undo/redo
>   - 'undo' can be reset (e.g. after 'save', or 'open')
>   - set text style of a chunk by tool button or (sample) menu
>   - undo includes text style setting
>   - simple (enclosed) tool bars with text or icon buttons - optional of
> course.
>   - each kind of button comes in two sizes
>   - button tool bars in any one of four placements (top,right,bottom,left)
>   - view scaling
>   - call-backs to let the app know when undo/redo are available (e.g. to
> adjust menus)
>   - no front scripts used.
>
> FieldGroup is a standalone group which can be simply copy/paste'd into
> your own stacks, and provides a (moderately) rich set of text field
> features. You can have as many of these fieldgroups as you want - each
> is entirely self-contained.
>
> Easy to use - handlers/functions are well documented and (I hope)
> straightforward to understand and use. The downloadable stack includes
> the group, ready to be copy/pasted, as part of a simple sample app which
> shows common uses.
>
> The handler definitions are included below - this is also available in
> the sample app. The "fill" button ill give you text to play with, but
> shift-Fill will restore this document.
>
> You can download the sample app - which includes the group you ned to
> copy/paste - from
>
> https://www.tweedly.org/downloads/FieldGroupsample.livecode
>
> This popped out from a simple app I'm writing (actually, just starting
> to write) so I'm sure I will realize I need more features, and they will
> be added. However, I do not intend it to grow to an all-singing,
> all-dancing word processor-like field editor - I have no need for one of
> those. But it might be a staring point for someone else who wants that.
>
> -- Alex.
>
> /Handlers/
>
> In general, these handlers are invoked by 'dispatch'ing the message to
> the group. The sample app shows an example of how to structure the menu
> items (edit and Format menus). It also contains examples of manipulating
> the text (the *Exchange* button), showing different configurations of
> the buttons (the *Snap* button, and capturing the return messages for
> undo/redo being available.
>
> /Handlers/
>
> */fg.init/* pAConfig
>
> Initialize the field, with an optional set of configuration parameters
> (see fg.configChange for details of these).
>
> /dispatch "fg.init" to grp "fldgrp" with "textbuttonsize=large",
> "svgbutton=large"/
>
> */fg.configChange/* pAConfig
>
> Configure the settings for buttons usage, placement, size, etc.
>
> This can be either an array, with the key/value pairs, or any number of
> parameters each being in the form “key=value”.
>
> Examples:
>
> /put "top" into tA["textbuttons"]//
> put "small" into tA["textbuttonsize"]
> dispatch "fg.configChange" to grp "fldgrp" with tA/
>
> or
>
> /dispatch "fg.configChange" to grp "fldgrp" with "textbuttons=top",
> "textbuttonsize=large"/
>
> Parameters that can be set are:
> - textbuttons : top | bottom
> - svgbuttons : top | bottom | right | left
> - textbuttonsize : small | large
> - svgbuttonsize : small | large
> - resizing : true | false (defaults true - if FALSE then the group will
> not adjust for any resizing)
>
> */fg.version/*
>
> Returns the version of the fieldgroup.
>
> /dispatch function "fg.version" to grp "fldgrp"//
> put "Version" && the result  into msg
> /
>
> /
> /
>
> */fg.getText/* pType
>
> Retrieve the contents of the field.
>
> /dispatch function "fg.getText" to grp "fldgrp" with "styledtext"/
>
> pType is one of
> - styledtext (the default) : return the complete styledtext /array
> - text : plain text of the field/
> - htmlText : htmltext of the field
> - rtftext : rtfText of the field
>
> */fg.resetUndoSystem/*
>
> Resets all undo info, for example if the app does a save, and if it
> determins that the user should ne bot able to'undo' beyond that point,
> then it would call this handler.
>
> /dispatch function "fg.version" to grp "fldgrp"//
> put the result into URL ("binfile:savedfile.txt")
> dispatch "fg.resetUndoSystem" to grp "fldgrp"/
>
> /
> /
>
> */fg.set.initialText/* pText
>
> Set the initial text for the field (i.e. set the text, an reset the undo
> system).
>
> /put URL ("binfile:" & sFilename) into tText//
> put arraydecode(tText) into tA
> 

Re: Web help needed

2020-07-13 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Folks,

I think that either you're all misreading the original intent, or I have
read it wrong.

>From what I have read, Mike has a webapp that converts from one file format
to another and wants to do bulk conversion. Rsync and FTP will not help
there, what he needs to to be able to call that form multiple times or
refactor the form to support multiple files.

Mike, get yourself familiar with "file type inputs" from HTML and how they
can support multiple file selection. In the two links below you'll have a
reference to the APIs and DOM elements related to that:

* https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/input/file
*
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/File/Using_files_from_web_applications

Using that you could rework your form to accept multiple files, even with
drag and dropping, which I believe will solve your problem.

Still, I don't think that doing the entire archive in a single go is a good
idea as Apache will hangup the CGI process after a predefined timeout, but
you could do a subset of it, for example each month in a single pass.

Best
A



On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 at 19:32, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Bill Prothero wrote:
>  > Sorry if this is off, but what about just transferring them with ftp?
>
> FTP is good enough for a small number of files.  But for automating
> large numbers of file transfers rsync is hard to beat, a much smarter
> tool making things much more efficient.
>
> By default, rsync will only transfer files that have changed, and even
> then only transfers the portions of a file that's changed.
>
> It can be used to sync folders locally or remotely - I run all my
> backups with it, in addition to using it post files to servers from my
> local master copy.
>
> rsync is preinstalled with macOS, can be added to Windows, and is a
> standard part of most popular Linux distros used on servers.
>
> It's secure using SSH, so if you add your SSH public key to your server
> (useful for a good many things) you not only get good security but it
> makes it easy to automate with LiveCode's shell function.
>
>
> @Michael Doub: I believe HostM uses Ubuntu, so rsync is preinstalled
> there.  And since you use macOS, your copy is preinstalled on your Mac.
>
> IMNSHO, you'll want to request SSH for any hosting service that doesn't
> offer it by default.  With SSH, not only do you get to use standard
> Unix/Linux utilities like rsync, scp, and others, but sooner or later
> you're likely to need or want to do something on that server outside of
> the limited scope of what FTP is designed for.  With shell access you
> can do anything you need, just as good as having the server sitting on
> your desk, even if it's thousands of miles away.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   
>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: [off-topic-ish] do you prefer LC-related content as books or video courses?

2020-07-10 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Mark,

Thanks a lot for your support my friend, I really appreciate it. :-)



On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 11:39, Mark Smith  wrote:

> Thanks for the update Andre, I have the book and am looking forward to
> some good reads 
>
> Mark
>
> > On Jul 10, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > Thanks a lot for your detailed responses. Since you have all been quite
> > awesome in giving me all these great replies and feedback, let me tell
> you,
> > in probably more details than you'd ever want, where I am coming from and
> > what I plan to do going forward.
> >
> > Many here know that I have graduated from a film school. Doing videos
> feel
> > like going home for me and I believe in the potential of multimedia to be
> > an effective learning tool. Still, I have always been in love with books
> > and like many here I favour books over video any time. I was considering
> > doing more video related content because other people I know are having a
> > better return on video courses than on books. Of course this depends on
> the
> > community and here books appear to rule, which is good for me because I
> > enjoy writing books and that is the direction I want to shift my career
> to
> > anyway.
> >
> > I have just completed a major JavaScript book for a famous publishing
> house
> > in the U.S. and am ready to go back to self-publishing and work on my own
> > titles on my own time. The book I made about LiveCode best practices and
> > code organisation was well received and even though I have issued some
> > updates, I haven't updated as often as I wanted to. The reason behind not
> > updating often is because of some of the worst aspects of capitalism:
> > updating the book didn't really add to the sales figures and I live in a
> > very expensive city (I live in London now). Every time I updated the book
> > there would be some extra sales, but not as many as to justify working on
> > it. The alternative would be to raise the prices so that each sale would
> be
> > more valuable to me but I'm against it because I think the price should
> > reflect the value of the object being sold. That book has been done
> without
> > an editor and in a hurry, I can't charge as much for it as I'd charge
> for a
> > book that involved more professionals and more care. I think the price
> for
> > that specific book is right.
> >
> > So, going forward I think I am going to write more books but also shorter
> > books. There is a problem with trying to create comprehensive references
> or
> > bible-like books. They are harder to do and you sell them only once. Our
> > community is small, there is a limited amount of sales to be done inside
> > it. What I will do is create shorter books focused on a single topic and
> > sell them individually for a low price so that people can acquire them
> all
> > without actually having to worry. This way I can produce books faster
> > (which lowers the cost of producing them for me) and you get to have
> fresh
> > content, which is something that we all know a healthy ecosystem needs. I
> > might make some short videos, but mostly for engagement and highlighting
> > cool stuff. Video takes longer to produce and unfortunately my current
> > daily driver machine doesn't support any decent video editor.
> >
> > As for using stacks as interactive learning material, that reminds me of
> > Director. I think it is a great idea. The problem is that I am writing
> > about other technologies as well and I can't build a pipeline and tools
> to
> > deliver stacks (even as standalones) to the other communities at the
> > moment. I might explore that in the future but for now doing ebooks is
> the
> > best way forward. It is easy, I know how to do it, and I can focus on
> doing
> > content instead of building new tools.
> >
> > For those that haven't been exposed to my best practices book, you can
> find
> > it at:
> >
> >
> http://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html
> >
> > I have also created a Ko-fi. This is a website like Patreon that helps
> > connect audiences with creators by allowing people to donate money as a
> one
> > time donation or as a recurring donation depending on how much they want
> to
> > support the creator. My plan is to engage with those supporting me on
> > ko-fi, and let them see advanced copies of the books, help decide what
> the
> > next topics to tackle and so on. Another thing I like about ko-fi is 

Re: [off-topic-ish] do you prefer LC-related content as books or video courses?

2020-07-10 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Folks,

Thanks a lot for your detailed responses. Since you have all been quite
awesome in giving me all these great replies and feedback, let me tell you,
in probably more details than you'd ever want, where I am coming from and
what I plan to do going forward.

Many here know that I have graduated from a film school. Doing videos feel
like going home for me and I believe in the potential of multimedia to be
an effective learning tool. Still, I have always been in love with books
and like many here I favour books over video any time. I was considering
doing more video related content because other people I know are having a
better return on video courses than on books. Of course this depends on the
community and here books appear to rule, which is good for me because I
enjoy writing books and that is the direction I want to shift my career to
anyway.

I have just completed a major JavaScript book for a famous publishing house
in the U.S. and am ready to go back to self-publishing and work on my own
titles on my own time. The book I made about LiveCode best practices and
code organisation was well received and even though I have issued some
updates, I haven't updated as often as I wanted to. The reason behind not
updating often is because of some of the worst aspects of capitalism:
updating the book didn't really add to the sales figures and I live in a
very expensive city (I live in London now). Every time I updated the book
there would be some extra sales, but not as many as to justify working on
it. The alternative would be to raise the prices so that each sale would be
more valuable to me but I'm against it because I think the price should
reflect the value of the object being sold. That book has been done without
an editor and in a hurry, I can't charge as much for it as I'd charge for a
book that involved more professionals and more care. I think the price for
that specific book is right.

So, going forward I think I am going to write more books but also shorter
books. There is a problem with trying to create comprehensive references or
bible-like books. They are harder to do and you sell them only once. Our
community is small, there is a limited amount of sales to be done inside
it. What I will do is create shorter books focused on a single topic and
sell them individually for a low price so that people can acquire them all
without actually having to worry. This way I can produce books faster
(which lowers the cost of producing them for me) and you get to have fresh
content, which is something that we all know a healthy ecosystem needs. I
might make some short videos, but mostly for engagement and highlighting
cool stuff. Video takes longer to produce and unfortunately my current
daily driver machine doesn't support any decent video editor.

As for using stacks as interactive learning material, that reminds me of
Director. I think it is a great idea. The problem is that I am writing
about other technologies as well and I can't build a pipeline and tools to
deliver stacks (even as standalones) to the other communities at the
moment. I might explore that in the future but for now doing ebooks is the
best way forward. It is easy, I know how to do it, and I can focus on doing
content instead of building new tools.

For those that haven't been exposed to my best practices book, you can find
it at:

http://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html

I have also created a Ko-fi. This is a website like Patreon that helps
connect audiences with creators by allowing people to donate money as a one
time donation or as a recurring donation depending on how much they want to
support the creator. My plan is to engage with those supporting me on
ko-fi, and let them see advanced copies of the books, help decide what the
next topics to tackle and so on. Another thing I like about ko-fi is that
they style the whole process as "buy me a coffee", so you're basically
sending creator small donations so they can afford caffeine. Something I
really need to write books. I will price the books low, so if you think
about sending more money or making this more sustainable, my Ko-fi is at:

https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia

From what I have been reading on the list, I think there is a need for a
small book on "launchers" or as we used to call them "splash stacks". They
are a fantastic way to deploy tools to the enterprise and clients, they
unite the easy deployability of the web with the powerful feature set of
Desktop apps. More seasoned LC developers, especially those that worked as
ISV before the App Store, are probably familiar with them but this is
probably a new subject to many of the people who came to LC more recently.
I think this is will be the first new small book. I'm thinking about 45
pages. I hope you'll like it.

Best
A


On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 at 20:20, William Prothero via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> FYI, I’ve found some of the MovAvi 

[off-topic-ish] do you prefer LC-related content as books or video courses?

2020-07-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey Folks,

I have been working on some new LC content to sell. I want to transition my
career into content production and I think there is an unserved demand for
quality content for our beloved language.

I'm just not exactly sure if you prefer to consume content in book format
or video format. My reason to ask is because I love books but apparently
people enjoy video courses more. Some friends of mine report more revenues
from video courses than books, but doing video is harder and takes longer,
so before deciding on what medium to go for I decided to ask you all about
it.

My outline is done and the research into the topics I want to cover is
almost complete. I'll soon reach the point in my production pipeline where
I need to decide which way should the content go. What do you prefer?

Best
Andre

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Re: WebSites made using Livecode.

2020-07-06 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Heriberto,

I've read this thread and want to share a bit of experience of using LC as
a server engine. I'm part of the team that builds
http://www.himalayanacademy.com which is probably the largest site built
with LC Server around. I'll try to frame this email in the topics I've seen
you worried about, feel free to ask questions here on the thread and I will
try my best to answer them.

ON THE POPULARITY OF A LANGUAGE
Many managers and clients don't have the necessary context to judge
whatever tools are presented to them and will often go to generic metrics
such as popularity to try to gauge what is going on. Even though popularity
might correlate to quality it doesn't mean that something less popular is
bad. You can't really compare the engines powering behemoths of the
industry with all their gravitas to small niche languages in terms of
popularity because the small languages will always look bad. If you go
through those metrics, even extremely powerful languages like Haskell and
Elm will show as small blips when compared to PHP or Ruby.

It is important to notice that there is a very important case to be made
for choosing popular languages: the high availability of software
developers working with those tools and vendors/webhosts/ecosystems
supporting those languages. It is easier to find PHP developers, hosts, and
consulting firms, than it is to find the LC equivalents, so for a company
choosing to bet their development into some stack, the PHP solution might
seem more attractive.

To counterbalance that you can say that most people doing professional
development will be using Virtual Private Servers instead of shared host
accounts, and those type of servers give you full control over the
(virtual) machine, which means you can host LC on them. Linode, AWS, Azure,
Digital Ocean, all those popular services can host LC based solutions when
set up correctly. Besides that, LiveCode has an open source GPL version, so
they don't need to be that scared of a using it as even if the LC HQ
decides to do something else, they can still build and use the code.
Talking about LC HQ, it might be good to tell potential clients that the
company that builds the language has a consulting arm and if anything
happens then can be hired to fix or help fix the difficult unique
challenges they may face. Having this direct line to the LC HQ is a
valuable thing.

ON RESPONSIVENESS AND MODERN WEBSITES
All that happens client-side and is not related to the server engine at
all. You could be hosting a web server with an Oberon based webserver and
as long as you were shipping HTML/CSS/JS built following the current best
practices all would be well.

This means that using LC is no excuse not to learn how to do proper
webapps. Anyone working on the web these days need to have command of
"HTML5" to be able to deploy solutions that are up to the standards we
want. The good news is that HTML5 is easier than HTML < 5, if you don't
care much about compatibility with old browsers, doing a web app these days
is pretty easy.

WHERE LIVECODE SHINE (A PERSONAL TAKE)
I have been around LiveCode for a while and have developed an opinion on
which situations I think it shines. It can be used for other cases, don't
get me wrong, but it does shine in some specific patterns that make it a
lot easier to sell solutions based on it.

In my own personal and subjective experience, LiveCode shines when you are
building desktop applications, or combining desktop applications with
server-side solutions. With LiveCode you can have a webapp doing
server-side LC server and an HTML5 front-end, while still having a full
desktop application for handling all the administration stuff. Instead of
spending a ton of time to craft a webadmin panel, or a clunky CMS, you can
offer your client the full power of an offline-first desktop application to
manage the webapp you're building. That is a powerful proposition and one
that I wish would surface more in LC marketing and in the stories on this
list.

With LC you can ship a whole suite of desktop and mobile apps that act as
companions to the business your client is doing while still delivering a
webapp as the user facing part of your contract.



On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 20:41, Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear LiveCode experts:
>
> I am trying to convince a customer to create their next website with
> LiveCode Server instead PHP.  The client asks me what other popular
> sites are created with LiveCode server.
>
> I have seen this in the Livecode forums , but it seems to be very old:
>
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=15689
>
> Do you know modern websites created with LiveCode?
>
> I have seen that the current LiveCode site runs Wordpress + PHP.
> Do you know why?
> --
>
> Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement
>
> Heriberto Torrado
> ​Chief Technology Officer (CTO)
> ​Director de informática
> Directeur informatique
>
> *NetDreams S.C.*
> 

Re: vCard save file format binfile or file?

2020-06-02 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
to be honest, I'd use binfile:// when writing...

On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 15:17, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> A decade ago I wrote a vCard library for LiveCode:
>
> https://git.sr.ht/~soapdog/vObjectLib
>
> It uses CRLF and file://, I never had trouble opening the generated vCards
> but I haven't tested this in years.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 at 01:10, kee nethery via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> > On May 31, 2020, at 4:56 PM, Bill Vlahos via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > If I just use URL file to save vCard files I will get different results
>> on Windows vs Macintosh regarding CRLF. VCard files are text files.
>>
>> UTF-8 files.   https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-3.1
>>
>> > The vCard standard requires CRLF as the line format regardless of which
>> platform the data is being written in.
>>
>> Truehttps://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-3.2
>>
>> > LiveCode using the URL file command will write the file differently on
>> Windows compared to Mac or Linux.
>>
>> Sure do wish Livecode would let us declare what a “text” file return
>> character or characters was for writing a file. Same as we do with
>> itemdelimiters. Something like:
>>
>> set linedelimiter to U+000D & U+000A
>>
>> > I can build the variable for the vCard and use CRLF instead of RETURN
>> for line endings.
>> >
>> > If I write the file using URL binfile format will it still be a text
>> file that other programs can read?
>>
>> if you give it a .vcf suffix it should work.
>>
>> Kee
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> http://www.andregarzia.com
>
>

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Re: vCard save file format binfile or file?

2020-06-02 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
A decade ago I wrote a vCard library for LiveCode:

https://git.sr.ht/~soapdog/vObjectLib

It uses CRLF and file://, I never had trouble opening the generated vCards
but I haven't tested this in years.



On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 at 01:10, kee nethery via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> > On May 31, 2020, at 4:56 PM, Bill Vlahos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > If I just use URL file to save vCard files I will get different results
> on Windows vs Macintosh regarding CRLF. VCard files are text files.
>
> UTF-8 files.   https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-3.1
>
> > The vCard standard requires CRLF as the line format regardless of which
> platform the data is being written in.
>
> Truehttps://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-3.2
>
> > LiveCode using the URL file command will write the file differently on
> Windows compared to Mac or Linux.
>
> Sure do wish Livecode would let us declare what a “text” file return
> character or characters was for writing a file. Same as we do with
> itemdelimiters. Something like:
>
> set linedelimiter to U+000D & U+000A
>
> > I can build the variable for the vCard and use CRLF instead of RETURN
> for line endings.
> >
> > If I write the file using URL binfile format will it still be a text
> file that other programs can read?
>
> if you give it a .vcf suffix it should work.
>
> Kee
>
>
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Re: ANN: glx2 script editor 4.1

2020-05-26 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Thanks a lot for the hard work! :D

On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 04:32, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have moved the repository from bitbucket to github because reasons.
>
> This is the latest build. It's now at glx2ScriptEditor version 4.1.
> Release notes and a documentation wiki are on the github site.
> It's had a pretty rigorous shakedown cruise lately on osx, windows, and
> linux and is now the editor I use on a daily basis.
>
> https://github.com/mwieder/glx2ScriptEditor
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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Re: Enabling "About MyApp"

2020-05-22 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
This should be in the user guide...

On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 00:42, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> GEORGE WOOD wrote:
>
>  > How can I activate the "About MyApp" under the Apple menu?
>
> On other OSes the "About" item is usually the last item in the Help
> menu.  If you put your About item there, you'll find that when LC
> automatically translates its menu objects for the Mac menu bar it'll
> move your About item to the application menu.
>
> In fact, a similar thing happens with "Preferences". On most platforms
> it's the last item in the Edit menu, and when you put a "Preferences"
> item there the automatic menu bar change that LC does will put it in the
> application menu as well, below About.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   
>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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Re: Which git service suits a LiveCoder best?

2020-04-24 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
I came here to recommend "script tracker" as a powerful tool for those
storing stacks in vcs. In the end it all depends on how your workflow is
going to happen. Are you going to do merges? If that is the case then you
need to plan ahead and carefully since you can't merge binary stacks.
Another potential solution is any of the old school vcs in which you
"checked out a file" and locked other people from changing it. This way, it
becomes easier to work with binary files as there is never a merge (or
there shouldn't be). There used to be a really nice tool supporting this
use case by Chipp Walters called Magic Carpet. I used to make very good use
of it for working. I wonder if Chipp still here and if he'd consider
releasing that as FOSS.

On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 at 05:11, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 4/23/20 9:04 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> > New dedicated repo is located at:
> > https://github.com/bwmilby/scriptTracker
>
> Oh, cool. I'll change my git remote.
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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[blog post] creating a blogging client with LiveCode

2020-04-13 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey Folks,

I just wrote a lengthy blog post about recreating an old app of mine to
post to blogs using LiveCode:

https://andregarzia.com/2020/04/cross-platform-development-with-livecode.html

I don't talk about any stuff that you're not aware in it. It is mostly for
the benefit of people who doesn't know LC but I thought some people here
might appreciate it.

Send me feedback or questions if you want to know more about anything there.

Best
Andre

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Re: LC Android deployment working on Windows 10 under ARM64

2020-04-08 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Bob,

I can still run apps for Windows 3.11 if I want. Windows ME is even easier.
I can even still run DOS 16bit stuff.

> 32 bit only apps are apps that are not maintained, and have likely not
been maintained for quite some time. Win XP 64 bit was released in April
2005. 15 YEARS ago. The die was cast way back then. Anyone who refused or
were unable  to update their apps to 64 > bit are likely not in the
business of software development and support, or else are not very serious
about.

This is completely false. There are many hardware peripherals that require
32bits drivers for example. It is very common to have industrial stuff
running with 32bits. Also, all windows machines can run 32bits apps, so
many windows apps are still 32bits as it doesn't make sense to update them
to 64bits and risk it not running on some machines as in the case of
windows, things change very little between 32bits and 64bits. Stuff such as
video editors and multimedia apps benefit a lot from being 64bits and those
are the ones that I most see with only 64bits available.

A good example of the trainwreck that Apple did with the 32bits fiasco is
that many gamers collected a huge gaming library over the years on things
like Steam. Many of those games are 32bits games because that is what gets
you most compatibility with hardware out there, now all of those games,
which run fine up to one update ago, are not running anymore. My best
friend has this problem for example, from the 219 games in his Steam
library, only 69 run on Catalina.

Many offices can no longer print as the driver is 32bits...

None of this is happening because the people who developed all those
products are not serious. With LC it is easy to compile to many different
architectures but with a lot of code it is not that simple. Specially low
level C code might change a lot between 32bits and 64bits.


On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 16:42, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Again, why would one want to? :-)
>
> 32 bit only apps are apps that are not maintained, and have likely not
> been maintained for quite some time. Win XP 64 bit was released in April
> 2005. 15 YEARS ago. The die was cast way back then. Anyone who refused or
> were unable  to update their apps to 64 bit are likely not in the business
> of software development and support, or else are not very serious about.
>
> Try running apps for Windows ME or OS 9. It’s only a matter of degrees.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Apr 8, 2020, at 8:20 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Why should i want to? My Mac OS can run 64bit apps. ;)
> >
> > Now try running a 32bits one...
>
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Re: LC Android deployment working on Windows 10 under ARM64

2020-04-08 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
> Why should i want to? My Mac OS can run 64bit apps. ;)

Now try running a 32bits one...

rsrsrs what I mean is that Windows machines have a lot of
retrocompatibility and interoperability among themselves, something that is
no longer true for the mac. The fact that I'm running all these 32bits apps
that were compiled for a completely different ISA on my computer without
even noticing they are not native is quite an achievement. They say 64bits
emulation will come at the end of the year. All I want to be honest is
native arm64 binaries but companies are slow to port.



On Wed, 8 Apr 2020 at 16:16, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> > ARM7 Android, all working fine.
> >
> > PS: You can't do this kind of crazy stunts on a mac
>
> Why should i want to? My Mac OS can run 64bit apps. ;)
>
>
>
>
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>
>
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LC Android deployment working on Windows 10 under ARM64

2020-04-08 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
So, my main machine these days is a Surface Pro X which is a Microsoft
computer that runs Windows 10 with an ARM64 CPU (aka Windows on ARM, aka
WoA).

Machines running Windows 10 on ARM64 can run Windows 10 applications
compiled to ARM64 and also run Windows 10 applications compiled for x86
32bits through a built in emulation system. It can't run x86 64bits
applications unfortunately. Thankfully LC for Windows is still compiled for
32 bits, so I can run it on this machine even though I'd rather have a
native arm64 version someday.

I got tired of always switching to a Mac, or my older Surface Go, when I
need to do something with LC and Android and decided to try setting it up
today. I begun by following the instructions at:

http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/985962-livecode-and-android-studio

Which led me to download Android Studio for Windows 10 32bits. I've
installed it and downloaded SDKs for Android 10, 9 and 8. Also downloaded
the obsolete SDK tools as described. Downloaded a 32bits JDK from Oracle.
Installed everything and setup LC correctly.

While I was trying to deploy an Android app, it would start compile things
and then fail with:

"Could not encode class bundle"

Which is a useless message and doesn't tell me anything. I went searching
and found this thread:

http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/could-not-encode-class-bundle-td4711848.html

Which led me to a very helpful message by Panos that contains this
wonderful nugget of wisdom:

> On Jan 22, 2017, at 8:42 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <[hidden
email]
>
wrote:
>
> My guess is that this error is related to the Android SDK. Which version
of
> Android SDK Build Tools have you installed?
>
> To find the exact error, you can do the following:
>
> 1. Type in the msg box "edit the script of stack
revsaveasandroidstandalone"
> 2. In the script editor window that just opened, search for "Could not
> encode class bundle" (should be around line 638)
> 3. Add "answer the result" just before the "Could not encode class
bundle"
> line.
> 4. Click apply to (temporarily) save this change
> 5. Build an android standalone.

Now, why the hell doesn't the default error message contains "the result"?
That would have saved me a lot of time! I changed that to output to the
message box, and this is what it was saying:

-
This version of
C:\Users\andre\AppData\Local\Android\Sdk\tools\lib\find_java64.exe is not
compatible with the version of Windows you're running. Check your
computer's system information and then contact the software publisher.

ERROR: No suitable Java found. In order to properly use the Android
Developer
Tools, you need a suitable version of Java JDK installed on your system.
We recommend that you install the JDK version of JavaSE, available here:
  http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads

If you already have Java installed, you can define the JAVA_HOME environment
variable in Control Panel / System / Avanced System Settings to point to the
JDK folder.

You can find the complete Android SDK requirements here:
  http://developer.android.com/sdk/requirements.html
-

Which makes total sense because my computer can't actually run 64bits
binaries. I don't know which function in LC calls that command, it is not
in the revsaveandroidstandalone, but I noticed that in that folder there
was also a "find_java32.exe", I simply made a copy of it, renamed it
"find_java64.exe" and from then onwards, everything worked and I could
deploy and test things on Android.

So yes, LiveCode compiled for Windows 10 running under 32bits emulation on
an ARM64 computer, compiling for an ARM7 Android, all working fine.

PS: You can't do this kind of crazy stunts on a mac

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Devolution bug

2020-04-06 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Folks,

I just reinstalled LC and Devolution here but every time I try opening any
of the panes, it does an audible chime. Trying to click any of the tabs in
the first pane (the one with about, check for updates, etc) just sounds the
chime and doesn't change anything. It feels like there is a modal somewhere
offscreen and I can't click it.

Best
Andre

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Re: ANN: glx2 script editor 4.0

2020-04-06 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
I'm also experiencing some oddities with GLX2 4.0.1 here.

I've uploaded a screenshot to:

http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/glx2/glx2-strange.png

* The GLX2 bar is misplaced and even though it moves when I move the main
LC menu, it moves to the wrong location.
* The menubar in the GLX2 script editor has wrong colors and can't be read.
* The handler columns is too small.

Those are the main issues I noted so far.

Best
Andre

On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 at 21:39, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Mark,
> where do you want feedback? I place it here for now.
>
>
> Tested now with LC 9.5.1, 9.6.0DP3 on Mac OS 10.14.6 with two displays.
>
> 1. the GLX2 bar is not under the LC menubar. It´s placed on the right of
> the screen
> see https://livecode.dermattes.de/screenshots/glx2_bar.png
>
>
> And it  seems that GLX does not write back the preferences or maybe some
> of them back to the prefs file.
>
> 2. tried to set to chalkboard, but that was not saved. I had to change the
> GLX2 Code Prefs.txt file in an editor while LC is not running to get
> Chalkboard working
>
> 3. setting the font size does also not work
>   even after changing the size manually in the editor (while LC is not
> running) does not work. I need also to open the GLX preferences once in LC
> and then  the font size changes in GLX
>
> 4. when GLX2 is first opened then a menu is visible in GLX
> see https://livecode.dermattes.de/screenshots/glx2_menu_visible.png
>
> when i click onto any of the menu items then the menu disappears
> see https://livecode.dermattes.de/screenshots/glx2_menu_hidden.png
>
>
> Matthias
>
>
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>
> >
>
>
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Our first Community Zoom Session

2020-04-06 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Folks,

I missed the meeting, is there a recording available?

Best
A.

On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 11:31, Heather Laine via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear list folks,
>
> I have now scheduled our first zoom meeting, open to anyone who wishes to
> discuss LiveCode, share hints and tips and see a friendly face during this
> period of isolation for many. I will be there in a moderation capacity, to
> facilitate discussion. Panos will be joining me to help out. The actual
> debate, discussion, conversation and topics is down to you guys and gals!
> Come along and bring a topic you'd like to share/learn information on. Just
> to reiterate, the usual list rules apply: we're talking LiveCode, we're not
> talking religion or politics, and cheese should be kept to a minimum :)
>
> To give us an idea of numbers and how to best manage the meeting, I have
> turned on registration for this meeting, so you can click on the link below
> to register. It would be helpful if you can do this in advance. The meeting
> will be tomorrow, Friday 3rd April, at 4pm UK time, (we've just switched to
> Summer Time here). To see what time that is for you, please go here:
>
> https://www.timeanddate.com/ 
>
> or just click the registration link and you will be able to specify a
> timezone to see what time it will be for you.
>
> The invitation:
>
> You are invited to a Zoom meeting.
>
> When: Apr 3, 2020 04:00 PM London
>
> Register in advance for this meeting:
>
> https://zoom.us/meeting/register/v50kdeGuqjstQaRWOduQAUs31lqtQJOVdA
>
> After registering, you will receive a confirmation email containing
> information about joining the meeting.
>
> Warm Regards, and see you tomorrow!
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
>
>
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: Possible new dev hardware?

2020-04-01 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
It looks like just a PC from the listed hardware specs. Probably running
some specialized Linux (my guess).

On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 at 11:36, Quentin Long via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Atari is apparently producing a gizmo they call the "Atari VCS",
> which they're positioning primarily as a video game console. However!
> According to an email I just got from them, this beast has what they're
> calling "Atari sandbox mode (install any OS)", and they claim "If you want
> to develop just for fun or for other platforms, use Sandbox Mode to install
> any development environment you want." The relevance to LiveCode is left as
> an exercise for the reader.
> The URL to the propaganda website:
>
> https://atarivcs.com
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Notarization

2020-04-01 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Folks,

This just appeared on my feed and I thought that some people here who are
trying to ship macOS software might benefit from it.

https://github.com/akeru-inc/xcnotary/blob/master/README.md

This is an ease to use command-line tool for notarizing your app. The
linked readme explains more about it.

Best
Andre

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Re: Making my book free until the end of May

2020-03-18 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
The last update was last year when I added a chapter about libraries. I
have more content planned to it but I haven't devoted more time to it
because I felt like people were not interested...

On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 at 15:03, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Mathias
>
>
> the version says
>
> Disclaimer
> This is an early release. Send feedback to feedb...@andregarzia.com¹.
> The content of this book will be expanded in the next months, I see this
> book as a living thing,
> much like LiveCode IDE.
> This is the “minimum amount of book” I consider useful enough to make a
> release. I hope you all
> enjoy and benefit from it.
> Version
> The version you’re reading is the: 2019.11.1
>
> And it's 57 pages
>
>   To be honest I never looked at it after the first day and only just
> downloaded it.
> I'm going to read it again and send feedback
>
> Lagi
>
> On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 at 14:50, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Lagi,
> >
> > could you give a feedback here, if there is newer content. The last
> > version i have here was published 2019-11-18.
> >
> > Matthias
> >
> >
> > -
> > Matthias Rebbe
> > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> >
> > > Am 18.03.2020 um 15:21 schrieb Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> > >
> > > I too already bought it but I'll download to see if there were any
> > additions
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Lagi
> > >
> > > On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 at 12:06, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Andre,
> > >>
> > >> wow that´s a generous offer. I own your book already and i really can
> > >> recommend it.
> > >>
> > >> Btw. your e-mail signature still contains a link to fon.nu.  ;)
> > >>
> > >> -
> > >> Matthias Rebbe
> > >> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> > >>
> > >>> Am 18.03.2020 um 12:51 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Folks,
> > >>>
> > >>> Many of you are probably working from home right now and some might
> be
> > >>> self-isolating or under lockdown. I understand that this poses many
> > >>> challenges to many of you, most of which I can't help with at all,
> but
> > I
> > >>> can however make it easier for you to get more LC content. The
> current
> > >> time
> > >>> is stressing the ability of many of us to make a living, especially
> > >> people
> > >>> here who might be forced into unpaid leave. Because of that I decided
> > to
> > >>> make my book free until the end of May. You can get it at:
> > >>>
> > >>> https://leanpub.com/livecodeapparchitecture
> > >>>
> > >>> The way Leanpub works is that there is a price slider that lets you
> > >> adjust
> > >>> the price from the minimum value set by the author all the way to as
> > much
> > >>> as you want. I've adjusted the minimum price and the recommended
> price
> > >> to 0
> > >>> USD. You can still adjust that if you want. The book is usually 20
> USD
> > >> but
> > >>> with that cut, you can use that cash for something else and improve
> > your
> > >> LC
> > >>> skills.
> > >>>
> > >>> Best
> > >>> Andre
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
> > >>> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
> > >>> ___
> > >>> use-livecode mailing list
> > >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > >> subscription preferences:
> > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > >> subscription preferences:
> > >&g

Making my book free until the end of May

2020-03-18 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Folks,

Many of you are probably working from home right now and some might be
self-isolating or under lockdown. I understand that this poses many
challenges to many of you, most of which I can't help with at all, but I
can however make it easier for you to get more LC content. The current time
is stressing the ability of many of us to make a living, especially people
here who might be forced into unpaid leave. Because of that I decided to
make my book free until the end of May. You can get it at:

https://leanpub.com/livecodeapparchitecture

The way Leanpub works is that there is a price slider that lets you adjust
the price from the minimum value set by the author all the way to as much
as you want. I've adjusted the minimum price and the recommended price to 0
USD. You can still adjust that if you want. The book is usually 20 USD but
with that cut, you can use that cash for something else and improve your LC
skills.

Best
Andre

-- 
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How to hide LC menubar without losing the icon on the windows taskbar?

2019-05-27 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
I enjoy using Devolution and since my machine has 10'' I'd like to hide 
the menubar to free up some real estate but if I use the feature from 
Devolution to hide the LC menubar I end up losing the application icon 
on Windows 10 task bar which makes it really hard to switch between apps 
on the machine.


So my question to you all is: "how to we enable a plugin to take over 
the IDE and keep the application icon there?"



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[Feedback request] New docs for dbLib

2019-04-29 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode

Hey Friends,

I've been working on a new release for dbLib for a while and part of it 
is producing better documentation. Even though it is not yet complete, I 
think that the new documentation is good and it might already be 
valuable for people here as it applies to the current release.


I'd be keen to learn get feedback on it from people using the library or 
that are curious about the library (you can fetch the GPL version and 
use the same docs). So far, I've basically added an API reference. Other 
more complete parts such as a tutorial will come later.


https://soapdog.github.io/livecode-dblib/#/

Best

andre


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Re: Upcoming MacOS 14.5 with software “notarization” requirements

2019-04-11 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
People forget that speed and latency are not related. Solving latency on 
networked apps is tricky.


There will always be a place for Desktop apps (local apps on your 
computer I mean)


On 10/04/2019 22:53, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Paul Dupuis wrote:

> Of course this may all be a mute point if you believe the "industry
> analysts" that say that 5G networks will kill the market for local
> applications whether for iOS, Android, or desktop OSes and finally web
> app will be fast enough :-)

All networks can get faster, but I'm with Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols in 
not holding my breath for 5G to be anything close to the magic pony 
marketers are playing it up to be:


"5G or faux G?: Forget all those stories of 20 Gbps speeds and 1 
millisecond latency. 5G will never deliver performance like that — and 
anyway its time is still years away for most of us most of the time."

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3336119/5g-or-faux-g.html


EFF has a similar view:

"Enough of the 5G Hype"
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/02/enough-5g-hype

...and an alternative infrastructure proposal that will benefit 
existing devices as well as the someday-soon-no-really 5G access points:


"The U.S. Desperately Needs a 'Fiber for All' Plan"
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/03/us-desperately-needs-fiber-all-plan



With or without infrastructure improvements, I expect mobile to remain 
a steady growth segment.  But by "steady" I mean only slightly more 
than half of Internet traffic, with laptops being most of the remainder.


If Job's metaphor of the "post-PC" era means phones are cars and 
laptops are trucks, observe that the most popular auto form factor in 
the US is the SUV - effectively, a truck. :)


We're now a decade into the "post-PC" era, and Apple stills sells 
Macs. Lots of them.  More than iPads, which have leveled off to 
negative growth.


It's not just developers who need full computers.  It's everyone who 
isn't just a grazer: every artist, every writer, everyone making 
presentations. Nearly everyone.  You can do those things on a phone, 
just not as well.  With your thumbs.


For all the articles about the so-called "post-PC" era, I doubt any 
were typed with thumbs on a phone.


If only those writers could observe themselves as they work



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Re: Container for Multi-Media Narravites; SMIL Revisited

2019-04-10 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode

Swami,

I think this was probably a message that was made for me and not for the 
list :-)


I will get back to you on this soon.

om om

andre

On 09/04/2019 16:47, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:

Brainstorm:

It a shame that SMIL was abandoned.  Well maybe not... but working from ground 
zero is a challenge.

We want

Goal: Implementation:

Input: Voluteers or staff can "build a narrative" by
   - write a script that  fills the "text" nodes (below)
   - source (search for) for images, audio and video resources and times be 
referenced.

Output: is it XML, Is it JSON? Is it YAML. Or something else? It has to be 
flexible but parseable.

Does the below provide enough detail that the production or director or the 
developer can built it? Using whatever format or tools that he-she like?


Rough spec:

-- A high level container for a multi-media narrative.
-- It should have a structure; so, HTML would will not do (unstructured)
-- It is "presentation" agnostic
 - you could give it to a film producer and it could serve as a  
"script"
  -  you could built a KeyNote which would export to a video
- Using to the build a "story" as HTML,  as seen on "Medium"
 -  use it to build small HTML5 scenes ala Tumult's "Hype 3"
  - you could bring in Livecode and a log scrolling group or "click for next 
scene" on a card.

We take the model of a play, which has scenes.
Each scene describes what happens before "the curtain drops"  then next one
Each scene has scenario, which happens while the curtain is up, but is distinct

The container which we will call a "Narrative Script" has one or more scenes

  must have (at minimum)

Narrative Script

Scene ID
 Scenerio ID
 -- Node for text with attributes:
  - layer
 - title: Literal text: "Oh What a Day!"
 - Pull Quote
 - literal text entry: "We took a deep 
drive dive:
 - URI form some "locations" or 
function from which text can be retrieved (url 
http://someDomain/SomeBook/chap##/?name=###)
 - Quote
 - literal text entry: "We want for a long drive in"
- URI form some "locations" or function from which text 
can be retrieved (url http://someDomain/SomeBook/chap##/?name=###)
  
		-  Variable length Text

- long text entry: "Once open a time"
- URI form some "locations" or function from which text 
can be retrieved (url http://someDomain/SomeBook/chap##/?name=###)

-- Node for image
   -- still
   -- motion/Gif
 -- optional Ken burn effect:
- begin loc, ending loc, speed, ratio change

-- node for video URI
   Attributes: beginning and ending point

- node for audio URI
   Attributes: beginning and ending point

---
Anything missing?




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Re: Notarizing applications for macOS

2019-04-10 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode



On 09/04/2019 16:47, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

On 4/9/19 4:04 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:

Hey friends,

This info just passed through my inbox: 
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution?language=objc 



https://nicolas.perriault.net/code/2016/from-osx-to-ubuntu/

...just sayin...



Just came back to macOS after some years with Windows. To be honest, 
macOS is worse than I remember. Heck, what Apple is doing?!


Unfortunately can't migrate to Linux at the moment. If I was in the 
position to choose, I wish I could migrate to a BSD but that would 
involve me porting LC to BSD and I don't have infinite time or the 
required skills.



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Notarizing applications for macOS

2019-04-09 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode

Hey friends,

This info just passed through my inbox: 
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution?language=objc


Do we have a solution for this already? Can we notarize LC standalones?

Cheers

andre


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Re: ANN: Script Editor Refactoring Support

2019-03-21 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
this is just TOO AWESOME One of the things I always complained is
the lack of refactoring support. Thanks a ton my friend.

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 2:48 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 3/20/19 2:53 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
>
> > Here's a scenario that will probably break:
> > (save your work first)
>
> Heh. In trying to fix that, I broke it more, so I just uploaded version
> 2. Fun stuff, eh?
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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Re: Address and phone to the office

2019-03-15 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Thanks friends! :-)

On Mon, Mar 11, 2019, 16:48 Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> According to their web site, it’s
>
> LiveCode Ltd.
> 66 Albion Road
> Edinburgh
> Scotland, UK
> EH7 5QZ
>
> +44 (0) 845 219 8923
>
> This is probably right - it’s certainly different from the address they
> had last year, and I know they’ve moved.
>
> HTH
>
> Graham
>
>
> > On 11 Mar 2019, at 15:19, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hey,
> >
> > Anyone here know the current address of LiveCode office and their
> > phone number?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Andre
> > ___
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Address and phone to the office

2019-03-11 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey,

Anyone here know the current address of LiveCode office and their
phone number?

Cheers
Andre
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[ANN] vCard & iCalendar library

2019-02-18 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode

Hi Friends,

I am in the process of updating my LiveCode book 
(http://andregarzia.com/livecode/#livecode-advanced-application-architecture). 
The demo application for the book is an Address Book stack and while I 
was writing the "libraries" chapter, I remembered that long ago, I wrote 
an vCard/iCalendar library. I went to my old machines, found it, and it 
still works. I've updated it to be a plain-text stack and placed it 
online. Feel free to use it in any way you want. It can generate and 
parse both vCard 3 and iCalendar files while also providing enough 
low-level routines for you to generate your own "vObject"-based file 
formats.


  https://github.com/soapdog/livecode-vobjectlib

I've also added some minimal documentation at 
https://soapdog.github.io/livecode-vobjectlib/#/, this is very 
incomplete. It is just a port of the old stack based documentation to 
text files. If there is enough interest, I can write more detailed 
documentation later.


One very cool anecdote is that this library was made in 2005, thats 14 
years ago. There are LiveCode users who are younger than that. It is old 
code which is not using any of the modern LC stuff and it still works 
well and fast. I am really happy with it. I hope you folks will benefit 
from it too.


Cheers

andre


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Re: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x

2019-01-02 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Bob,

Yes but it is not as ergonomic. Let me tell an example from a different
platform. I was working in WebStorm IDE in a JavaScript project. I was
refactoring a ton of it.

One of the functions worked better with a different parameter order than
what I originally used. I could select the function declaration, use the
refactor contextual menu, use "change signature" and alter the param order.
The IDE then made sure that all code that called that function was changed
to support the new order automatically.

There was a piece of code inside a function that was useful elsewhere.
Click refactor, select "extract to new function", fill the new function
name. It creates a new function and place a call to that function in the
original place where it was.

These are just two examples. Those refactor tools go much deeper than that.
It makes it easy and even fun to rework your code.

It would be hard to have the same power in LC because LC is more dynamic
than JS in terms of scope and what is available. JS modern IDEs maintain an
AST in memory for your software so that when you refactor, they can locate
and fix the side effects of your changes. It is more powerful and flexible
than text replacements because the IDEs actually understand the code
through having their own parser and stuff.

Buut some of it could be done in LC with simple text replacement based
tools.

Is there a way to "safely" add to LC contextual menu in the script editor?

On Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 17:33 Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Find/Replace works great. I've done it a few times, so long as the thing
> you are finding has a unique name that cannot be a part of any other bit of
> code, you should be fine. Backup your stack of course before doing
> something so drastic.
>
> A while ago, the LC dev team optimized the search engine so that it is
> orders of magnitude faster.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Dec 30, 2018, at 11:57 , Andre Alves Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Malte,
> >
> > So happy that you're back here my friend. I too spent some time away.
> >
> > So, refactoring and constantly trying to erase mistakes of my past
> coding self are a constant here. I wish we had better refactoring tools so
> that we could rename a handler and all code that called that handler was
> fixed, or stuff such as rename variable...
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > andre
>
>
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Re: Refactoring is your friend / moving from 6.x to 9.x

2019-01-02 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
That loop is briliant. I am tempted to place it into a command called
"unlockScreenForReal"

On Mon, Dec 31, 2018, 16:38 dunbarxx via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Not sure if this is still relevant in LC, but in HC, lock screen commands
> were queued. So the fix, so that one did not have to count the number of
> locks through perhaps several handlers, was:
>
> repeat until the lockScreen is false
>   unlock screen
> end repeat
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html
>
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Re: SSL with HTTPD Library?

2018-11-08 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Stephen,

If this is to be accessed from a server as in, you have a server running
some LC code that will reply to whatever needs to make that request the you
can use a "reverse proxy" in front of the LC server process such as caddy
or even just point a cloudflare instance to it and point your domain to
cloudflare.

I dont know what the use case is here but be aware that LC behind caddy,
apache or nginx will run circles around a LC desktop app serving stuff
using any of the available HTTPd libraries (including my own).

Om om
Andre

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018, 16:04 Stephen MacLean via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I’m looking to use the HTTPD library with an SSL Cert if possible.
>
> Is it possible?
>
> TIA,
>
> Steve MacLean
>
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Re: [off] Do me a solid

2018-10-04 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Friends,

I have been silent for a while but I am now getting more active here again.
I've recently moved to London so if people want to go to a Pub or organize
an LC meetup, I am game.

Now back to business, I am an active member of the decentralized web
movement and more visible through my efforts on the Secure Scuttlebutt[1]
community and the Mozilla experiment called Libdweb[2].

I was at the Decentralized Web Summit this year where Tim Berners-Lee was
present promoting Solid. You can see all recorded sessions from the
event[3] or jump straight to his video about solid[4].

BELOW YOU WILL READ SOME STRONG PERSONAL OPINIONS:

In my humble opinion the dweb and dapp movement can be categorized into two
large camps and most solutions/communities tend to fall under one or
another, even though some span both camps. One camp is the "solution with
economic incentives" and in this category we place all the cryptocurrency
backed stuff, all those little blockchains with tokens, ICOs, DAGs,
cryptolattice structure marvels that no-one uses but everyone hopes to get
rich with. This is where the money is and most of the stuff is vaporware
made to promote ICOs, foster speculation and make someone (who is usually
not you) rich. Still, there is good stuff in here, bitcoin is pretty nice
as a "currency", dogecoin is fun to play with but no one will get rich,
ethereum has a nice momentum.

The other much less visible camp, which is the one I am mostly interested
in, is the "solution without economic incentive" where people are building
stuff that not necessarily relies on blockchains or tokens or any form of
currency. It is usually peer-to-peer stuff that, by design, prevents
censorship, tracking and in some cases makes really hard to monetize
anything. In this camp you'll find Secure Scuttlebutt, IPFS, Dat, Beaker
Browser (which is DAT).

Some solutions span both camps such as the offerings by protocol labs,
where IPFS, libp2p, etc fall into the second camp but their filecoin fall
into the first one, and that is OK. Or holochain which provides a platform
for you to build your on decentralized stuff even with coins and tokens.

During one of the online conferences we had for LiveCode Global this year,
I presented a TOY version of a Scuttlebutt-like protocol that allowed
people to build decentralized desktop apps with LiveCode. If the HQ accept,
they could share this video with all the community, it gives a nice little
toy intro to the concepts.

Anyway, there is a ton of stuff happening in this space, solid is not the
only game in town.

Best
Andre

[1]: https://scuttlebutt.nz
[2]: https://github.com/mozilla/libdweb
[3]: https://decentralizedweb.net/videos/
[4]:
https://decentralizedweb.net/videos/talk-solid-empowering-people-through-choice/

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:24 AM Kay C Lan via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 10:11 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode
>  wrote:
> > 
> >
> > Is this the same Tim Berners-Lee who, in his capacity as Director of the
> > World Wide Web Consortium, a year ago overruled all objections and added
> > standardized DRM to the open web standards? Sided with trillions of
> > dollars worth of corporate muscle against accessibility groups, security
> > experts, browser startups, public interest groups, human rights groups,
> > archivists, research institutions, etc?
> >
> > Pass.
> Unfortunately I think the Free Software Foundation backed the wrong
> horse.  Whilst it's mission to promote computer user freedom is
> commendable, doing it via OSS in a world where the Internet is driven
> by trillions of dollars, web search engines are driven by billions of
> dollars and both of these are influenced by media giants and
> governments with political agendas almost make the fact that you have
> OSS on your device irrelevant.   I think individual freedom, let alone
> computer user freedom, would better be served if, like linux, there
> were a couple of versions of the WWW, some of which were truly Open
> Source.  Although I use DuckDuckGo in deference to Google, I think
> we'd all be better off with a few viable OS Web Search Engines - the
> current ones are too small.
>
> I think in the future we'll look back and realise that having a purely
> open Search Engine and purely open Internet will be far more important
> to us than whether the code of the app we are using, to take advantage
> of what is available across the internet, is open or closed.
>
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Re: OT our shipping software is finally finished

2018-10-04 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Matthias,

Congratulations on shipping a shipping software! I think that LiveCode is
the best thing under the sun to build Desktop apps. I wish people were not
so enthralled with mobile these days because Desktop stuff rocks.

Best
andre

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:30 AM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The complete project started in February this year.
> I´ve started with our DHL module in February and finished that at the end
> of March. The DHL part was easier, as the app does not have to create the
> label. The app fetches the shipping data the same way as the Trans-o-Flex
> module does, but then writes the shipping information as XML file into a
> folder which is monitored by a DHL polling software. This polling software
> is provided by DHL. The DHL polling software then transmits the data to DHL
> and if the shipment data is correct, then the software receives the
> shipping label from DHL as PDF and prints that out. At the end of the day
> the DHL polling software fetches the shipping data for all parcels and
> pallets from DHL and stores that information in our database. (We need that
> data for tracking and to export it to our webserver.
>
> I started with the Trans-o-Flex module early April. It began with studying
> the tech papers of Trans-o-Flex, fetching needed information and evaluating
> the needs of my colleagues. For Trans-o-Flex we used a separate program
> and  I wanted to make the change from the old to the new app as easy as
> possible for them . Programming started late  April. I worked on that app
> about 5 hours a day, sometimes more somtimes less. First shipments were
> done with the new app from the 18th of September. The complete switch from
> the old Trans-o-Flex app to the new app was around the 25th of September.
> Since the 18th we shipped about 739 Trans-o-Flex parcels/pallets with our
> new app.
>
> So all in all the complete app took about 8 month in research and
> development.
> Currently i am reviewing my comments in the scripts to make them more
> “understandable” for others in case this is needed in the future.
>
>
> > Am 04.10.2018 um 02:11 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > All the best and tons of sales.
> >
> Unfortunately it´s an in-house tool and there are no plans to sell it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Matthias
>
>
> > Cheers
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 8:07 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/03/2018 03:33 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> >>
> >>> This is by far the most extensive app i´ve created with Livecode so far
> >> and i am really happy that it was finally approved by Trans-o-Flex.
> >>
> >> Congratulations. I know this has been a long rocky road.
> >>
> >> --
> >>  Mark Wieder
> >>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> >>
> >> ___
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Re: Script Editor Unusable on Windows

2018-10-04 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Clarence,

I wish I could but I am afraid of adding plugins and this becoming slow as
molasses. :-(

I just lost a little button on a card because I clicked another control,
pressed delete, but there is a lag in the IDE so it missed me switching
controls and deleted the wrong one. If I program really slowly (and I am a
slow coder already) then it mostly works...

best
andre

On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 5:19 PM Clarence Martin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> You may want to look at The LCStackBrowser Plugin. It has the ability to
> save stacks automatically. I have used this for years now. There were some
> problems recently when the LiveCode version went from 7 to 8 but the author
> has fixed that.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Clarence Martin
> Email: chi...@themartinz.com
> Cell: 626 696-5561
>
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of
> Bob
> Sneidar via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:50 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Cc: Bob Sneidar 
> Subject: Re: Script Editor Unusable on Windows
>
> Early on when LC was experiencing a CTD issue (this was around v6) I wrote
> code into my stacks that saved every time I closed a stack. I also save
> code
> incredibly frequently, sometimes every few line edits. I maintain local and
> offsite backups of what I do so I can revert, and I have a versioning local
> backup running automatically so I can recover a version earlier in the day,
> in case I completely bork my code, then save it.
>
> Still, this is a pain and needs to be sussed out, but as you say, producing
> a reliable recipe is nearly impossible, because by the time you notice it,
> it's about to go nuclear.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Oct 3, 2018, at 05:19 , Andre Garzia via use-livecode
>  wrote:
> >
> > Dragging controls from the palettes, launching the inspectors.
> > Everything hangs all the time. Just today, I lost an hour of work
> > because LC crashed while I was accepting an script. Poof, the IDE went
> > unresponsive and then I had to close it. This happens all the time.
>
>
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Re: Script Editor Unusable on Windows

2018-10-03 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Folks,

I've been complaining about LC on Windows for ages to Brahmanathaswami and
occasionally on this list as well. I have a feeling that most people on HQ
must be using Macs because there is no way this is going unnoticed.

I have disabled all I could in terms of auto suggestion and other live
stuff from options menu and it is still slow. It is not only the editor
though, it is all of LC IDE. Typing stuff inside the message box is so
laggy that is unusable. Here, it takes seconds to catch up and I am a slow
types that uses basically only two fingers to type.

Dragging controls from the palettes, launching the inspectors. Everything
hangs all the time. Just today, I lost an hour of work because LC crashed
while I was accepting an script. Poof, the IDE went unresponsive and then I
had to close it. This happens all the time.

I don't have any plugins anymore. I've disabled everything. I don't have a
recipe either because it affects the whole IDE here.

My machine is pretty standard, it is a Surface Pro 4 with 8gb of RAM, 512
GB of HD and Windows 10 latest stuff. I almost miss my apple.

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 12:15 AM Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Thanks everyone! With all this info and so many people affected, we
> should have a recipe pinned down soon. :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry K.
>
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Re: [ANN] v2.2 of DB Lib

2018-06-19 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Skip, there is no upgrade charge and all previous customers should have
received an email from my shop with the link to the new version by now. I
don't like to charge for upgrades for minor revisions.

Mike, basically it behaves better regarding unicode characters coming into
LC and out of LC into the databases. I still need to iron out some cases
but I think it is better.

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> what is the difference?
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 8:09 AM Skip Kimpel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there an upgrade charge?
> >
> > SKIP KIMPEL
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:12 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Friends,
> > >
> > > After ages without updating my tools, I've resumed working on them.
> > Today I
> > > am releasing a tentative version of DB Lib v2.2 which has better
> Unicode
> > > handling. Basically I've replaced old uniencode/unidecode based code
> with
> > > the new textencode/textdecode stuff.
> > >
> > > I've tried with some Cyrillic and Tamil text and it worked well.
> > >
> > > You can grab a GPL version from:
> > >
> > >   https://github.com/soapdog/livecode-dblib/releases/tag/v2.2
> > >
> > > And you can buy a commercial version from:
> > >
> > >   https://sowl.co/YpT7k
> > >
> > >  I will redo my own home page soon and list the LC stuff it is just not
> > > ready and I know some people needs these patches. I will work now on
> the
> > > new 3.0 release in which I will rewrite the remote database library PHP
> > > code to be better.
> > >
> > > om om
> > > andre
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
> > > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
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> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
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[ANN] v2.2 of DB Lib

2018-06-18 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Friends,

After ages without updating my tools, I've resumed working on them. Today I
am releasing a tentative version of DB Lib v2.2 which has better Unicode
handling. Basically I've replaced old uniencode/unidecode based code with
the new textencode/textdecode stuff.

I've tried with some Cyrillic and Tamil text and it worked well.

You can grab a GPL version from:

  https://github.com/soapdog/livecode-dblib/releases/tag/v2.2

And you can buy a commercial version from:

  https://sowl.co/YpT7k

 I will redo my own home page soon and list the LC stuff it is just not
ready and I know some people needs these patches. I will work now on the
new 3.0 release in which I will rewrite the remote database library PHP
code to be better.

om om
andre



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Re: [BUG] Browser widget implemented without access to localStorage API

2018-05-16 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Panos,

Found a race condition that causes the behavior I mentioned originally. It
is quite easy to reproduce, just try to execute any "liveCode.*" as soon as
the page loads. Apparently it takes some time (ticks? millisecs?) for the
liveCode.* namespace to be available for scripts running on the webview, if
you try to run them too soon, you get an undefined function error.

I had to wrap my initialization code into a "setTimeout()" so that it runs
500 milliseconds after the page load.

If you pick that stack you attached to the other bug and instead of binding
the "iMouse1" and "iMouse2" functions to event handlers, you instead simply
try running:

  liveCode.iMouse2()

In the beginning of the script, you will see the error pop in "adb logcat |
grep -i console" like:

05-16 18:48:03.872 12462 12462 I chromium: [INFO:CONSOLE(43)] "Uncaught
TypeError: liveCode.getWordDefinition is not a function", source:
file:///android_asset/modules/lexicon/web/index.js (43)

Thanks for all the help.
PS: update the bug with a comment like this one.


On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 1:50 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Agreed but I have had registry problems in the past doing that so I avoid
> it. Livecode may not be a problem in that regard.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Trevor DeVore via use-livecode
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 12:26 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Trevor DeVore
> Subject: Re: [BUG] Browser widget implemented without access to
> localStorage
> API
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 11:02 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > It's not that easy on Windows.
> >
>
> Why not? I just duplicated the LiveCode Business.exe on Windows 10 and was
> able to launch two separate instances of LiveCode.
>
> --
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com
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Re: [BUG] Browser widget implemented without access to localStorage API

2018-05-15 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Panos,

Thanks a lot for reaching out so fast. I will test this shortly and get
back to you and the bug report. In the meanwhile, are you aware of any
"javascriptHandlers" bug in Android?

om om
andre

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 6:35 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Andre,
>
> Have you tested with LC 8.1.10 rc1 (or rc2)? We added support for local
> storage on Android browser in this PR:
>
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/6362
>
> Best,
> Panos
> --
>
> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Reported as https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21281
> >
> > On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 4:47 PM, Andre Garzia <an...@andregarzia.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > LocalStorage is a web api which is standard everywhere, you can read
> more
> > > about it at:
> > >
> > > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/localStorage
> > >
> > > It is part of the W3C Web Storage Spec and implemented in every single
> > > browser and webview everywhere but on Android default WebView it is
> > > disabled unless you enable it in the code that creates the webview as
> can
> > > be seen in:
> > >
> > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33079762/android-
> > > webview-uncaught-typeerror-cannot-read-property-getitem-of-null
> > >
> > > So, any code using the browser widget on Android can't save or retrieve
> > > data from localStorage. And it is even worse since localStorage is set
> to
> > > null in those cases, the whole app will stop and freeze.
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
> > > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
> > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
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Re: Bug with javascriptHandlers in mobile?

2018-05-15 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
reported as https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21284

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:52 PM, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> Hi Friends,
>
> Just asking for confirmation, has anyone used the "javascriptHandlers" of
> the browser widget on mobile? I am setting them and they work fine on
> Desktop but on mobile I see errors in the console such as:
>
>  chromium: [INFO:CONSOLE(35)] "Uncaught TypeError: liveCode.getWordList is
> not a function", source: file:///android_asset/modules/lexicon/web/index.js
> (35)
>
> Before going crazy, I decided to shout here on the list because it appears
> that this doesn't work on mobile but the dictionary doesn't say it.
>
> cheers
> andre
> --
> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
>



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Re: [BUG] Browser widget implemented without access to localStorage API

2018-05-15 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Reported as https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21281

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 4:47 PM, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> LocalStorage is a web api which is standard everywhere, you can read more
> about it at:
>
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/localStorage
>
> It is part of the W3C Web Storage Spec and implemented in every single
> browser and webview everywhere but on Android default WebView it is
> disabled unless you enable it in the code that creates the webview as can
> be seen in:
>
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33079762/android-
> webview-uncaught-typeerror-cannot-read-property-getitem-of-null
>
> So, any code using the browser widget on Android can't save or retrieve
> data from localStorage. And it is even worse since localStorage is set to
> null in those cases, the whole app will stop and freeze.
>
> --
> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
>



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[BUG] Browser widget implemented without access to localStorage API

2018-05-15 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
LocalStorage is a web api which is standard everywhere, you can read more
about it at:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/localStorage

It is part of the W3C Web Storage Spec and implemented in every single
browser and webview everywhere but on Android default WebView it is
disabled unless you enable it in the code that creates the webview as can
be seen in:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33079762/android-webview-uncaught-typeerror-cannot-read-property-getitem-of-null

So, any code using the browser widget on Android can't save or retrieve
data from localStorage. And it is even worse since localStorage is set to
null in those cases, the whole app will stop and freeze.

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Bug with javascriptHandlers in mobile?

2018-05-15 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Friends,

Just asking for confirmation, has anyone used the "javascriptHandlers" of
the browser widget on mobile? I am setting them and they work fine on
Desktop but on mobile I see errors in the console such as:

 chromium: [INFO:CONSOLE(35)] "Uncaught TypeError: liveCode.getWordList is
not a function", source: file:///android_asset/modules/lexicon/web/index.js
(35)

Before going crazy, I decided to shout here on the list because it appears
that this doesn't work on mobile but the dictionary doesn't say it.

cheers
andre
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Re: HTTPD Server Post Requests work ........about half the time

2018-05-08 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Monte and Tom,

Yes, that is true. The client will wait for a while. It can still drop
though if for any reason the socket disconnects while waiting for an answer
(IIRC).

A good practice, is to cache and pre-process aggressively so that you need
to minimal work when the request actually arrives. If you know you will
need to do some database queries for each request and the data doesn't
change much often, such as:

"You are building a blog cms. Each post can have any number of comments.
Your user is interested in seeing a list of their recent posts and their
comments since his last visit. One normal way to do it, would be to use a
boolean field in each comment such as "seen" and flip it to true when shown
to the user. To assemble such page, you'd need to query for the posts and
then query for the comments, in a join operation which can be costly. Why
not pre-compute this when someone comment on an article. At that time, you
know the comment is "not seen yet" and you know which post it is related
to. You can add it to a special "inbox queue" so that when the user
arrives, this "inbox queue" requires no join or complex query minimizing
your I/O blocking"

That kind of stuff. Also, remember, the time after you answer the request
but before other request arrives (idle time) is perfect for maintenance
pre-computing.

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 10:45 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Andre I think that should only be an issue if your number of requests *
> time per request > client timeout.
>
> Tom probably the best place to start is some logs of the requests and
> responses on both client and server.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>
> > On 8 May 2018, at 11:28 am, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Remember that LC is using a single thread and that script execution is
> > blocking, so, if your server is busy doing work to respond to a request,
> > then it will probably not acknowledge an incoming request at the same
> time.
> > Or at least that was true for my RevHTTPd version...
> >
> > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi folks, so spent the last 2 days working on getting my client to talk
> to
> >> a simple service I created taking advantage of the httpd library in v9.
> >>
> >> Everything works fine. half the time. literally the request is
> >> identical each time but the result differs.
> >>
> >> the content type is set to text/plain. so the (base64 encoded)
> content
> >> is in the "content" variable.
> >>
> >> but thats only true half the time the other time it comes in empty.
> >>
> >> I also checked my post request with an online "post request"
> >> mechanism...and 100 % of the requests come in correctly. so the problem
> >> must be on my httpd service end.
> >>
> >> Anyone have any clue what could be creating this inconsistency?
> >> ___
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> >
> >
> >
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Re: HTTPD Server Post Requests work ........about half the time

2018-05-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Remember that LC is using a single thread and that script execution is
blocking, so, if your server is busy doing work to respond to a request,
then it will probably not acknowledge an incoming request at the same time.
Or at least that was true for my RevHTTPd version...

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 12:13 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi folks, so spent the last 2 days working on getting my client to talk to
> a simple service I created taking advantage of the httpd library in v9.
>
> Everything works fine. half the time. literally the request is
> identical each time but the result differs.
>
> the content type is set to text/plain. so the (base64 encoded) content
> is in the "content" variable.
>
> but thats only true half the time the other time it comes in empty.
>
> I also checked my post request with an online "post request"
> mechanism...and 100 % of the requests come in correctly. so the problem
> must be on my httpd service end.
>
> Anyone have any clue what could be creating this inconsistency?
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Re: URGENT: MergGoogle no longer works on iOS: CLIENTS VERY UNHAPPY

2018-05-02 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Sean,

Do you have a support package? They don't monitor this list close, it might
be better to call them over the phone while sending a direct email to
Heather. At least this is somewhat fixable on their side. I remember when I
lost a ton of money when Apple decided that only Obj-C/Cocoa apps would be
allowed on the store at the same time I was supposed to deliver a project.

This kind of setback happens to everyone in the long run when we're using
APIs outside our control. My advise would be to ping RunRev directly while
calling the client, explaining that google deprecated a technology used in
the project and thus it requires an extension.

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It's all too late now. I'm walking with egg on my face. No response from LC
> still. despite being marked as urgent. To use the browser widget I would
> have had to write the whole wrapper from scratch rather than use merg
> dependance. If it had been written properly in the first place it would not
> have been an issue. Had it had a warning on it (and not suppressed) I would
> have been aware. Now my life is over. Worst Day Ever! Miserable. Rained on
> and soaked through. Insurance doesn't cover for events like this and not
> one person at LC or on here will be able to help me out of this hole. I
> guess this is goodbye.
>
> Sean Cole
> *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
> www.pidigital.co.uk
> +44(1634)402193
> +44(7702)116447
> 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
> box!'
> 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
> but it is yourself!'
>
> eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
> Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
>
> On 2 May 2018 at 15:00, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if using the browser widget would be a temporary workaround so
> > that you get the flow the way google is asking for it.
> >
> > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 9:38 AM Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > If he had then it would also be in 8.1.10 or 8.2 (but it is not). v9 is
> > > basically still a beta (a GM beta!) as is incredibly buggy and
> virtually
> > > unusable for client projects. I wouldn't dare touch it yet till it is
> > > actually fully operational.
> > >
> > > Sean Cole
> > > *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
> > > www.pidigital.co.uk
> > > +44(1634)402193
> > > +44(7702)116447
> > > 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is
> no
> > > box!'
> > > 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside
> > of,
> > > but it is yourself!'
> > >
> > > eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
> > > Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
> > >
> > > On 2 May 2018 at 14:28, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Sean,
> > > >
> > > > I feel your pain really!
> > > >
> > > > Just a question wouldn't the Oauth2 that is built in to LC9 work -
> > maybe
> > > > that's the reason it wasn't updated but i'm sure Monty wouldn't be
> > > > dismissive - he was once at the coal face (no pun intended).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards Lagi
> > > >
> > > > On 2 May 2018 at 14:00, Pi Digital via use-livecode <
> > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > They would not be able to sort it in the next 1hr by which time our
> > > slot
> > > > > is over. They’ve had two years to sort this. Fortunately, in London
> > > there
> > > > > are plenty of trains and cars to run in front of as I can’t face
> > > another
> > > > > day of this. I’ve lost a huge client, a tonne of work and any
> chance
> > of
> > > > > being paid. And LC won’t care a jot! Last time I had something
> > similar
> > > I
> > > > > was told I’d have to pay their extortionate support fee (for their
> > > > bug!!).
> > > > > So screw it and screw everyone. There’s no way of pulling this
> back.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sean Cole
> > > > > Pi Digital
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 2 May 2018, at 13:52, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Perhaps rather than you and I chasing each other on multiple
> lists
> > we
> > > > > could
> > > > > > keep the conversation to one list.  Have you tried contacting LC?
> > > I'm
> > > > > > pretty sure when Monte was writing mergGoogle for me, he was up a
> > few
> > > > > > nights.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 8:49 AM Pi Digital via use-livecode <
> > > > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> It works fine on OSX but not on ios. Google have been
> documenting,
> > > > > >> apparently, for the last two years that they would be dropping
> > > support
> > > > > from
> > > > > >> using non-browser oAuth on iOS and Android devices. 

Re: LC Web integration is not good enough

2018-05-01 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Monte,

The problem is that no web api expects an object with numeric keys, it
expects an honest, real, array. The fact that LC arrays are actually
hashmaps is awesome, I love them as well, but it still makes it impossible
to export arrays from LC which are really common on Web APIs. JSONExport
library should check if the keys of a given array level are all numeric and
cast it to a list type.

Thats is what I say when RunRev web integration is not good enough. They
provide a json import and export function but it doesn't work well enough
for you to call any API that expects an array... We always go like 70% or
80% of the way in a feature and then there is a new LC Infinite Ultra
Campaign to get some new stuff in when the current stuff is not yet ready.

Same thing with executing JS inside a WebView Widget, we need to use the
"do in widget" statement but this doesn't have a way to bind values, so you
end up assembling a JS string by hand in hopes that you got all the correct
quotes right because you need to inline all params as literal objects...

:-(

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:42 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
>
> > On 1 May 2018, at 11:29 am, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 04/30/2018 03:15 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
> >> Andre,
> >> I'm using JSONToArray and ArrayToJSON for round trip with no problems.
> I'm
> >> storing an LC config array in a JSON text file, then later read the file
> >> back into an LC array. The only criticism I have is the formatting of
> the
> >> JSON in the text file could be better for manual changes with a text
> editor.
> >> Other than that it faithfully saves/recreates the LC array.
> >
> > ... as long as you don't have to deal with JSON lists.
> >
> > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19698
>
> ArrayToJSON deals with JSON list differently to JSONExport. ArrayToJSON
> uses mergJSON which checks if the array keys are a numeric sequence and
> assumes it’s a list. There is a way to force it to be an object if
> required.
>
> JSONExport on the other hand is done in LCB and LCB has a proper list
> type. The issue is when passing a LCS array to LCB there is no way for the
> engine to know for sure if your array is a list or map so it keeps it as a
> map with string keys. In the long run if we ever get proper lists in LCS
> then JSONExport will likely do as you are expecting.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
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Re: LC on Windows - slow for others or just me?

2018-05-01 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
I use LC 9 on a Surface Pro 4 Machine, it is almost unusable. Everything is
as slow as molasses. Typing a script sometimes takes many seconds to
respond and it even goes as far as missing keystrokes. Trying to drag and
drop stuff onto the stack is also horrible. I don't have any plugins
anymore, this is a fresh install.

I've been using this machine as my main machine for more than a year. LC is
so slow for me (on a fast machine) that I go for my old mac sometimes to
work. I have the impression that I am the only windows user here.

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Ralph DiMola wrote:
>
> > I have not reported it. I wasn't sure that my setup (VMs/bloated Adobe
> > Products...) was causing it. It's time to open a QCC report on this.
> > Do you want to report it or should I?
>
> I had put off reporting it since I run Win only in VMs right now, and had
> been thinking it was just me.
>
> If you have a native install it may carry more weight.  Even better if you
> have anything more actionably specific than my current whingeing
> abstraction, "it's slow".
>
> I'm trying to get some time for comparative unit tests, but this week I'm
> up against some hairy deadlines so not sure when I can get those together.
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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LC Web integration is not good enough

2018-04-30 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hi Friends,

This is a bit of a rant because I can't believe no one stopped by these
kind of problems before.

First of all, the JS Handlers for a browser widget are one way only. There
is no way to call a LiveCode function from JS and actually see a response.
You need to code two JS functions, one for calling LC and another for
receiving the LC response in an analog (even worse) to the old callback
hell of JS from early 2000. I find this quite unacceptable, it makes
impossible to make multiple calls to LC to retrieve values without
devolving into a spiral of callbacks.

Besides the only way to execute JS code from LC is to use the do statement,
which works with strings making it hard to assemble values compatible with
JS. You need to go like building SQL statements in 1990s by concatenating a
JS to be executed which is not only error prone, it is error certain. It
will fail if you are building something really complext because

Because LC jsonExport routines are broken, for they will export an array as
an object, which makes no sense at all. For example, if you have an array
like:

t[1]["name"] = "andre"
t[2]["name"] = "cleo"

jsonExport will output:

{"1": {"name": "andre"},"2": {"name": "cleo"}}
instead of the correct:

[{"name": "andre"}, {"name": "cleo"}]

If you pick an array, pass through that jsonExport routine, assemble a
correct JS string, send it to the web widget and the JS on the other side
is expecting an array, it will fail because that is an object.

So, in summary:

* We have subpar integration that relies on callback hell
* The json routines don't work
* The integration to execute JS from LC relies on error-prone hand
assembled strings

The worst thing for me is the JSON library exporting objects. How did this
didn't affected people on this list on the past is a bit beyond me.

I am doing a simple round-trip execution of LC + JS here and it is taking
me hours because I need to fight the current buggy feature implementations
instead of focusing on my own business logic.

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Re: OT: Why I Probably Will Never, Ever Learn HTML%

2018-01-11 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Swami,

You choose a topic that is really really advanced. React is not an easy or
lightweight framework, specially when you use it like most advanced web
developers do by using the flow architecture. Once you go through that
path, integration with other frameworks becomes really hard. For example,
React uses a virtual DOM, jQuery does direct DOM manipulation, integrating
them both is quite tricky. React + Flow uses a variation of the SAM pattern
for holding data which is radically different than what we LC are used to,
and also integration with backbone becomes trickier as backbone wants to
manage data.

The Web is basically its own operating system these days, there are easy
frameworks and hard frameworks. The JS community enjoys using a TON of
small libraries piled up like a castle of cards. Knowing how to build these
castles requires some work but it is not hard, it is more tedious than hard.

The good thing is that in JS land there are always alternatives. There are
multiple ways of solving anything, to the point that choosing to adopt a
solution is part of the problem. Personally, I don't enjoy React even
though Mozilla uses it a lot inside the new Firefox. I prefer Mithril JS or
Vue JS, both of which are very advanced but IMHO easier to work with.

One thing that is unique to the Web is that you can go from simple HTML +
CSS without any JS and have something useful that provides value to you and
your audience all the way to something that requires a PhD to understand.
There is space for everyone and the web grows with you.

Thats why LC web deployment (specially with new WASM stuff) will prove
quite a good thing, it will allow many of us to leap into the largest
deployment target ever.

om om
andre

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 8:02 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I wouldn't know wht that looked like. ;-)
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Jan 10, 2018, at 12:22 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Well, that page is like most computer manual pages: written in pompous,
> > over-jargonised language.
>
>
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Re: LC Global schedule is online

2018-01-11 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey Friends,

Just to let you know that I am speaking this year and I would love to have
more people board the "decentralization" train with me :-P

"choo-choo, where we're going, there are no tracks!"

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 9:26 AM, hh via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Great.
> Although the speaker "TBA" with always the same subject "Apply to speak"
> will be a bit boring ...
>
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Re: Why is node.js faster than LC server?

2017-12-05 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Jonathan,

It is not that simple. There is no silver bullet that can be added to a
language to make it scale by couple orders of magnitude like this. LiveCode
engine while is executing your business logic is not doing anything else
(it might be tidying up the house bit, I haven't looked at it but it is
definitely not executing other parts of your business code). Other
languages with support of fibers/coroutines can basically switch what they
are doing like an OS with multithreading without actually the threading
part. Some other languages support full threads and some even allow you to
fork(). But as far as I am aware LC datatypes and workflow is not thread
safe (someone familiar with the internals might correct me here) which
makes it a time bomb if you go spawning threads. Also thread programming is
quite complex and data races are a real problem, Mozilla creation of Rust
was in-parts to prevent data races with a safer language, thats how big
this problem is, people go and create new languages to solve it.

LC bottleneck is not database queries, the queries spend more time inside
the database than they do in transit between the revdb external and the
rdbms. There is not something that we can bolt on top of the current LC
engine to make it behave like nodejs (non-blocking with async language and
jit) and that is not even desirable. NodeJS programming requires a ton of
tooling and knowledge that is not at all related to whatever business
you're trying to solve, LC is much more a pick and go language than NodeJS
ever will be. Doing a simple setup of a modern NodeJS sample based on
server-side rendering and react will probably download hundreds of
megabytes in developer dependencies, just to get the sample to compile.
Imagine if one of your stacks required THOUSANDS of little stacks that
amounted to HUNDREDS of megabytes on disk, just to load. That is the land
of NodeJS, it has its own problems.

Other potential solutions for deploying LC based server software have been
attempted in the past, I will summarize two of them below as
food-for-thoughts.

## THE FASTCGI APPROACH ##
Long long time ago, in a Runtime Revolution far far away, I coded a fastcgi
stack. Fastcgi is a protocol specification that allows using a single
connection (or a pool) to multiplex requests from a server. So using
something like  a persistent TCP connection to Apache, you could answer
multiple requests. The problem with fastcgi and LC is the same as outlined
above, while the cgi part was trying to solve something, it would not
respond to requests, thats the bottleneck: the blocking code part. Imagine
that your cgi needs to fetch a large data set from a file and process it
before answering and that this process took 5 seconds. During those
seconds, the server would be unresponsive.

## THE ENGINE POOL ##
I believe it was Richard who did this, can't recall, it was definitely not
me. Keep a pool of engines running, lets say 20, use a node balancer to
round robin them. This allows you to answer at least 20 concurrent
requests. Then engine pool is only desirable over our normal CGI method in
one very specific case: The current LC server is CGI based, so it spawns a
new engine for each request, if you're on a memory constrained machine that
can't afford this escalation of memory and cpu usage, you keep a pool of
engines in a safe threshold and use the pool. I can only see this working
well on a raspberry pi, all other cases CGI should work better.

## Curiosity nuggets of semi-related trivia ##
Oh, and sometimes even NodeJS is slow, check out this article I wrote
couple weeks ago:
http://andregarzia.com/en/blog/creating-rust-based-nodejs-modules in which
I show a dramatic speedup in a NodeJS codebase by converting the most
critical part of the code into a Rust based module. The code used to
execute in 3 seconds and went to execute in 150 miliseconds.


On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> To make this happen, it seems like we would need an external that
> multithreads database queries and sends the query results back to LC as a
> new message. It would have to bring in a new ID for each request and return
> that ID with the result.
>
> Can the ODBC external do that?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 4, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > jonathandlynch wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Richard and Andre - thanks for your replies. I was the one who
> > > mentioned millions of users at the same time, not out of drunkenness
> > > but because I wanted to understand the upper limits of these systems.
> >
> > Scaling is a fascinating problem.  I found the C10k problem a good
> starting point (in recent years supplanted with C10m):
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> > > I also found a thread discussing this idea from a few years ago that
> > > Richard was part of. It was very informative.
> >
> > I 

Re: Why is node.js faster than LC server?

2017-12-04 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
IMHO opinions it is not fair to compar NodeJS and LC Server on merits of
performance because they are really different beasts, I will try to digress
a little about why I think this below.

NodeJS is the union of two things, one of which is the lightning fast JS
Engine from Google called V8 and the other is libuv for handling events.
This works well because JS has always been an asynchronous language on the
front-end. This leads to a programming style that is not as straight
forward as the one we're used. We had the "callback hell" in JS for a long
time where the request for doing something was decoupled from the response
of that call, it worked well but it was hard to follow. That was made
easier with the introduction of "Promises" which you may know as "Future"
from other languages which made the asynchronous flow more explicit and
easy to follow and now finally there are async/await calls like the ones
from C#. All this changes both inside the language itself and on top of it
in form of syntatic sugar serves one purpose only, give the developer good
ergonomics while keeping the code asynchronous/non-blocking.

LiveCode is not an asynchronous language. It has some APIs that work
asynchronously when we want them to, but it is not a non-blocking engine.
All our "PUT URLs" calls are blocking, which is one of the reasons that
early attempts (or toys like the ones I built) to ship an LC based Web
Server suffer from an easily DDOS architecture. Languages don't need to be
non-blocking or asynchronous to be good. LC is good. NodeJS is also good.
They are not necessarily good for the same stuff though.

Also remember that NodeJS uses V8 which along with Mozillas own
SpiderMonkey engine has strong JIT features and can basically compile your
source at runtime into x86 instructions (at least the hot parts of the
code). There are millions invested in JS engine, both in terms of money and
in terms of developer-hours. It is not something easily replicable unless
of course you're a robot from the future like Mike Pall is and build LuaJIT
alone (an engine that for a long time outperformed every other JIT engine).

Your original email about scaling anything to millions of users doesn't
outline some needs of working at that scale. Most of us don't work on that
scale. That kind of scale, is the kind where people start looking at how a
database places stuff in RAM so that fetches are easier by just multiplying
funky pointers, the kind of scale where a node balancer and a devops team
on call is necessary just for your development server to be alive and
useful.

LC Sever works pretty well if you have thousands of users, you just need to
be able to shift some gears and use the client-side of the web better. A
PWA that talks with an LC Server will require much less power on the
server-side than a server rendered one like what we usually build here. If
you have millions of users, then you can scale horizontally by adding more
servers...

On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> jonathandlynch wrote:
>
> > Thinking about this further...
> >
> > Could we set up LiveCode to run on a VPS, so it is always live and
> > listening to a port. When a request comes in, it would use TSnet to
> > send an asynchronous request to a local database. When TSnet gets the
> > callback, it passes the data back to LC, which processes it and passes
> > the information to the user through the port.
> >
> > This would always be asynchronous and thus never get hung up waiting
> > for a long request. It seems like it could be quite fast. Would that
> > work?
>
> I don't even think we'd need tsNet for that.  Sockets should suffice for
> communicating between backend services, and using the "with messages"
> option makes them async; indeed that single-threaded message-driven
> approach is a big part of what makes Node.js so performant, offloading as
> much as practical from the process thread to the OS.
>
> A while back Pierre Sahores posted some benchmarks here related to these
> sorts of explorations, generally quite flattering to LC.  Of course the LC
> engine is made by a small team in Edinburgh while JS has millions opf $
> invested from some of the largest companies in the world, so we may want to
> temper expectations of comparative performance accordingly.  But for a wide
> range of workloads, LC-based daemons can work well with backend services,
> at least much more efficiently than relying on the CGI model.
>
> The bigger question re. LC on the backend is perhaps why we're having this
> discussion at all:  if performance is critical enough for us to work out LC
> daemons from scratch, why not just use an existing toolkit for that work
> and enjoy the advantages of a large ecosystem of prefab solutions?
>
> And that's the chickens-and-eggs of this:  until we have such a large
> community of prefabs the cost-effectiveness will continue to favor current
> leaders, but without someone 

Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.8

2017-12-04 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
huahuaahuahuahu you're all just too awesome!

Panos, thanks a lot for the link :D

On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Panos,
>
> > Am 04.12.2017 um 17:06 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hi Andre,
> >
> > Sorry, I should have included a direct link to the Release Notes (I
> usually
> > do :) )
> >
> > http://livecodestatic.com/downloads/livecode/8_1_8/
> LiveCodeNotes-8_1_8.pdf
>
> you exspected a laborious second mouseclick from our little "spanish"
> friend?
> How dare you? :-D
>
> > Best,
> > Panos
> > --
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I like these emails a lot but I would like them even more if they
> contained
> >> a direct link to the release notes :D
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> http://www.major-k.de
> kl...@major-k.de
>
>
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Re: [ANN] Release 8.1.8

2017-12-04 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
I like these emails a lot but I would like them even more if they contained
a direct link to the release notes :D

On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 1:24 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear List Members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.8 Stable. By
> "Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been introduced in
> 8.1.8, compared to the previous Stable release.
>
> LiveCode 8.1.8 contains 36 bug fixes and new features, compared to LiveCode
> 8.1.7.
>
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
> the automatic updater.
>
> Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at
> http://quality.livecode.com/
>
> Warmest regards,
> The LiveCode Team
> --
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Re: Livecode Content Management System

2017-12-04 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Taking a tangential line of thought in this thread, I think there is value
in exploring "more focused" or "less flexible" solutions than complete CMSs
to gauge the feasibility of a CMS project. Specially if it is something
like David said that leverages the Desktop value of LC while spewing out
static files. A simple landing page creation tool could fit the bill. There
is a lot of need for landing pages, they all look the same in terms of
features (and visuals unfortunately), and should be doable with less work
than a full CMS.

Building such small tools would enable our community to understand the web
better and how to bridge our both worlds of LC and Web. So far, most of our
web efforts have been "PHP-inspired", as in our server engine behaves like
PHP and our frameworks look and feel like PHP frameworks. RevIgniter and my
old RevSpark, are basically PHP frameworks in a different language but PHP
is not on the bleeding edge of web development anymore. There are many
other ways of doing web work that are closed to us and who knows what will
be possible five years from now.

Any tool built today, in any language, with aspirations to be webby should
be generating a PWA. Generating a simple barebones progressive web app
(this is not your old progressive enhancement) boilerplate is quite easy.
The new features such as WASM (which is implemented in all major browsers
already), Service/Shared/Web Workers, and all the other APIs from the web
platform are all awesome but working with them require a a not so quick
learning curve. LC could help create flexible tools that generate code, and
I am talking beyond the current HTML5 deployment (which I don't own a
license and can't play with), I am talking about using the power of our
long living IDE and language to invent our own tools. I believe that LC is
great for writing tools and time is best spent writing tools than products
(unless the tool is the product).



On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 8:42 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I don't see much value in building a CMS or CMS front end. There is value
> in a CMS, but not I'd saying in making another CMS. Build on revIgniter as
> Dave says?
>
> On 3 December 2017 at 12:57, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Alex
> >
> > My instinct would be to build on revIgniter rather than start another
> > (possibly competing) project - I would be much more likely to contribute
> to
> > an enriched revIgniter than to two disjointed projects
> >
>
> Rather than replicating a tradition CMS, I would see taking an
> "opinionated" approach to the software design.  Build on the strengths and
> uniqueness of Livecode, and modern concepts such as continuous deployment.
> revIgniter as it stands can be part of an authoring platform, but the
> published output should be a modern static site, using the curated best of
> componentised and responsive HTML5 design. revIgniter in that context
> becomes part of the authoring environment, but not the deployment
> environment. Would love to work with people on this.
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Re: Livecode Content Management System

2017-12-02 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Alejandro,

You could but there lies a question of why should you do it? The idea of
storing flat files is that they are easy to edit by a human. Most flat file
CMSs use Markdown plus a frontmatter in YAML these days and that is really
a good system. Check out GravCMS, Jekyll, Metalsmith, Hexo, for some
examples.

cheers

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 1:17 AM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Andre Garzia wrote:
> > If you choose to store your data on flat files and use git
> > on that folder, you get branching, rollback and backups
> > for free for your CMS.
>
> Those data flat files could be stored as base64 encoded
> text files, Right?
>
> Al
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Re: [OT] The Internet is Living on Borrowed Time

2017-12-01 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey,

A friend of mine gave a talk at BrazilJS entitled "the end of the web", be
aware that BrazilJS is the largest Javascript conference in the world, so
this is quite a spotlight (I gave a talk there this year too). He later
posted an article with same content in English at
https://staltz.com/the-web-began-dying-in-2014-heres-how.html

This might interest you. Many developers, me included, are looking at
decentralized solutions like SecureScuttlebutt and DAT.

Cheers

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> > Well it must be true. It was on the internet.
>
> Funny enough, we are on the Internet, too. :-D
> Staying outside the looping groundhog day!
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107048/
>
> Jokes aside, I have to pause for a while to catch up
> with pending projects and new ideas.
> Too much to do and too little time.
>
> Al
>
> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 7:34 PM, Alejandro Tejada
>  wrote:
> >
> > This is Bryan Lunduke's today advice about the Internet:
> >
> > "Use the Internet for what it's good for.
> > Enjoy it. Plan for it not existing"
> >
> > http://lunduke.com/2017/11/28/the-internet-is-living-on-borrowed-time/
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VD_pJOFnZ0
> >
> > Recently, I asked a similar question in slashdot:
> > https://ask.slashdot.org/story/17/11/13/2319243/ask-slashdot-which-
> softwaredevices-are-unusable-without-connecting-to-the-internet/
> >
> > Surprisingly, most slashdot answers suggests that too many developers
> > actually are resigned to live in this brave new world of software and
> devices
> > that stubbornly and needlessly requires 24/7 internet access to keep
> working. :-(
> >
> > Al
>
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Re: Livecode Content Management System

2017-12-01 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey Alex,

Long time, no see! Hope all is well over there. Its that time again when I
pop up out of nowhere and write a long email, sorry for the longform text
but I am kind of a sucker for CMSs.

as pointed before by Ralf, CMSs are tricky business and quite hard to get
it right. It is easy to get something working but making it right for your
users and also safe is quite hard indeed and thats why I want to share some
opinions from someone who has done a lot in this space before with
different degrees of success, just please bear in mind that this is my
opinion and your experience may vary.

Using a more widespread language such as PHP or Python will make it easier
to find content about CMS but this convenience might be less useful when
compared to your expertise in LC. Using the language you know well tend to
lead to a saner workflow than "lets learn or get better with $LANGUAGE so
that we can build $PRODUCT", if you want to build a product that you will
ship and reuse, better go with something you have pleasure working with
even if there is few literature about how to apply LC to the task at hand.

There will be a lot of challenges, specially related to interfacing with
third-party stuff or dealing with common modern tasks as we lack a lot in
terms of libraries when compared to PHP and NodeJS (and basically all the
other languages out there used in web). LC is quite powerful but to do
proper web work you will probably require reinventing the non-existing
wheel every once and again. RevIgniter will get you quite far thought and
Ralf is just an amazing guy that deserves tons of kudos and cumplimentary
drinks (or sodas, or juice, no idea what he likes) from us at the next
conference.

The main problem I see when using LC for web is that we tend to use LC as
if it was PHP and forget all the features that makes it powerful. Many who
have recent contact with me knows that I am absolute believer in LC power
on the Desktop, and that I tend to use other technologies when developing
web or mobile even though LC can do both, it is just a matter of
preference. What I think would be a unique selling point for a CMS built
with LC is embracing the Desktop. Other CMSs such as the PHP built ones
require a complex web interface to administrate it full of thousands of
moving parts. Usually it is on these admin interfaces that all the
problems, bugs and invasions happen. Instead of treating LC Server as a
readable PHP engine and working just like PHP developers do, you can do
something that they can't, you can ship real, proper, Desktop tool that
works well and offline and syncs with the main server when needed.

If I was building a CMS today with LC Server, I would build an API server,
something that receives and responds JSON or GraphQL (if we ever write a
GraphQL library). I would build a Desktop admin tool with a UX better than
a web interface in half the time it would take to build a web interface.
The presentation part with the templates and so on, I would delegate to
RevIgniter.

If I may give you some tidbits to check out that might be interesting for
your project:

* Check GravCMS model of data storage. It is a quite good CMS built with
PHP that doesn't use a RDBMS. All the posts are flat-files on disk, it is a
very powerful approach and then you don't need to worry about SQL injection.
* If you build a Desktop app, then, you can use something like a "bundled
revserver" to run the whole system locally thus enabling the user to fiddle
with the site even when not connected to the internet (sync later)
* If your Desktop admin app is based on a feature complete library for your
own CMS, then you can create custom stacks for specific clients or needs
thus providing value and care that they usually can't find elsewhere.
* By not having an web admin interface, you reduce the "attack surface" of
your system.
* If you choose to store your data on flat files and use git on that
folder, you get branching, rollback and backups for free for your CMS.
* If you do what I mentioned above, you also can collaborate with others
running the Desktop admin and its local web server, thus enabling
distributed development of the site and deployment to production later.

I can go on for ours regarding CMS and ideas, specially because I am not
the one implementing it, I am just venting out information..

Om om
andre

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Simon Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I have played with this a bit, and got pretty far for a proof of concept
> for an ecommerce project I was working on. I stopped working on it when I
> left the company I was working for.
>
> I did not use rev igniter since I wanted it to function as it's own
> framework and I think it just makes the coding simpler in the end. I was
> not coding it in the IDE but rather my text editor (sublime), it just works
> so nicely for web projects =) and I have not really had any problems with
> debugging in the browser.
>
> I 

Re: Anyone can confirm laggy IDE on Windows 10?

2017-11-24 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
auhahuauh loved the "my condolences" part... let me tell you something more
shocking, I am actually enjoying the surface more than my macs... it is a
strange feeling of happiness and shame.

I installed LC for all users and I have no idea what Process Lasso is...

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 8:58 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 11/23/2017 02:08 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Hey Friends,
>>
>> Recently I switched to a Surface 4 Pro running Windows 10.
>>
>
> My condolences.
>
> Did you install LC for all users or just for yourself?
> Do you have Process Lasso installed?
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
>
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Anyone can confirm laggy IDE on Windows 10?

2017-11-23 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey Friends,

Recently I switched to a Surface 4 Pro running Windows 10. It is a quite
decent machine with an i5 and 8gb of RAM but I barelly can use LiveCode in
it because the IDE is extremelly laggy/slow. Just so that you know, it was
a cold night here and I preferred to close my machine, walk all the way to
my office couple blocks away to fetch my mac and go back home then keep
using it on Windows. Thats how slow it is for me. No other application is
performing badly and yes, I tried running only it without no other program
competing for resources. The symptoms I have are:

* Failure to register keystrokes in the script editor.
* Failure for UI elements to react to clicks.
* Failure for shortcuts to activate desired behavior such as opening
messagebox and other similar things.

Basically unless I take half a second between pressing keyboard keys to
type the script, it will miss half the text.

This is happening on all LC versions I have here which are 9.x and 8.x

(PS: Checked the pending messages and apparently there is nothing there, I
suspected a recurring message hogging up CPU time but thats not the case)

(PS 2: The LC IDE is extremelly slow but all the rest of the machine and
apps behave fine, the CPU is not going to high usage, things appear fine,
they just don't work)

Can someone help?

Andre


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Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

2017-08-11 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
It used to be the case that Apple would only allow JS to be downloaded, all
other languages could not run. Of course the static analysis system is not
perfect and probably it can't detect that that is what is happening with
our LC apps, but the terms were clear that you could not download code from
outside. That caused rejections in many other communities.

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> jonathandlynch wrote:
> > LC scripts are not executable code?
>
> They are to the LiveCode engine, but not to the OS.
>
> LiveCode Script has no access to the OS, and can't touch anything outside
> of the LiveCode engine.
>
> So from the OS perspective, scripts are just data, like glorified
> spreadsheet formulas.  All sandboxing and other API evaluation is relevant
> to the LC Engine.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>
>
>
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Re: revHTTP

2017-08-01 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Thats how I feel too :-)

Em 1 de ago de 2017 20:04, "J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> escreveu:

> On 8/1/17 5:48 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Right now we have documentation spread all over the place. There are
>> things
>> in release notes, things in emails, stuff in the dictionary, stuff only on
>> the website, and finding things is quite hard.
>>
>
> I read the release notes with every new version, but what happens to me
> often is that I'll find something new I'm interested in but later I can't
> remember what it's called. By the time I need to use it, I've forgotten
> what I need to look up in the dictionary. It's hard to locate a feature if
> you can't remember even a part of the name.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
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Re: revHTTP

2017-08-01 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Friends,

I just looked at the source code for the new httpd library, it is quite
similar in "what it is doing" to mchttpd and my own revhttpd. Basically
both of them use LC to accept and process requests. I had the impression
that the new library was using some C/C++ based implementation.

The implementation Monte made is very minimalist and elegant. It is easy to
follow and can even serve as a base for more ambitious projects. It suffers
from the same problems as mchttpd and revhttpd though which is, it can't
handle any form of concurrency. If your callback handler blocks, there is a
great chance that any other requests will be discarded (unless LC is
actually buffering and queueing them which would be awesome and also solve
the same issue on the other implementations).

om om
andre

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 31/07/2017 21:18, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote:
>
> Hi Alex
>>
>> You could use the new httpd library that is already included in LiveCode
>> 9 for this. Indeed this is what it was created for. We build a standalone
>> with all our tests and serve it with the library.
>>
> Yep - found it, and now playing with it. As I said in the other email, I
> couldn't find the docs, but simply ticking "Show IDE Stacks in Lists" and
> then using the project browser got me there. I love Livecode - there's
> always another way :-)
>
>>   What would be ideal is to create a deploy library similar to the the
>> iOS and Android ones. That way the Test button would build and launch the
>> standalone in your browser.
>>
>> That would be useful - but it's not what I have in mind.
>
> I'll describe what I'm trying to do in a separate rant 
>
> Thanks - and thanks for all the help, Monte, Richard, Matthias.
> -- Alex.
>
>
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Re: revHTTP

2017-08-01 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey Monte,

Yes, I can give more details, I am not talking about library documentation
as it is generated by lcdoc but the overall state of the documentation. The
main issue for me is a UX one. The built-in LC dictionary UI is not good.
For example, on my Surface 4 Pro, I can't change the little dropdown to
select the httpd API as the popup list is larger than my screen and does
not scroll with the trackpad. That is just an example, a simple list of
opportunities for enhancement would be:

* Provide sample stacks for all LC dictionary entries (multiple entries can
share the same sample but no entry can be without at least one sample). The
sample stacks need to be something that the person can click and run.
* A better wiki or comment system.
* Libraries need to be more discoverable.

Right now we have documentation spread all over the place. There are things
in release notes, things in emails, stuff in the dictionary, stuff only on
the website, and finding things is quite hard. The navigation is
challenging, for example, searching httpd on the website yields nothing. I
had to go to github and look for the source.

om om
andre

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> > On 2 Aug 2017, at 4:02 am, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I wish there was a more comprehensive documentation effort going on.
>
> Hi Andre
>
> Can you give a little more detail on your complaint here. All our new
> libraries are documented with lcdoc block comments which are extracted
> during the build and appear in the documentation. At the moment you need to
> choose the extension you are interested in as they don’t appear in the
> LiveCode Script api but in the future we will change this so all things
> available from LiveCode script are in the LiveCode Script API section.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
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Re: httpd library and missed opportunity.

2017-08-01 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Alex,

Python is kinda tricky to bundle. If you're looking into writing an
extension, then these might be useful:

* Libmicrohttpd - from GNU project, embedable httpd in C:
https://www.gnu.org/software/libmicrohttpd/

Implementing httpd is not hard, it could be done quite easily.

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> [ started a new thread, so I can't rant without tainting the other thread ]
>
> I started out on the 'find a rev/livecode solution for a simple HTTP
> server" for one small reason :
>
>the LC 9.0 Dictionary Guide, under "HTML5 Deployment" says
>
> Testing your HTML5 app with a local web server
>> Some browsers, such as Google Chrome, do not permit pages to download
>> resources from file:// URLs. You won't be able to test your application in
>> these browsers unless you run a local HTTP server.
>>
>> A quick and easy way to run a simple local HTTP server is to use Python.
>> Open a terminal window, change directory to your standalone's directory,
>> and run:
>>
>> python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8080
>> This will let you access your standalone by opening your web browser and
>> visiting http://localhost:8080.
>>
>> What ?  IMO, this is just plain "wrong".
>
> This is like going into the BMW dealership and being told "Yeah, you'll
> love the way the new Z4 drives. Just get into this Mercedes sports car here
> and we'll take you over to the racetrack to watch someone else drive one."
>
> Why are we suggesting that users use another (OK, a "competing") scripting
> language to test HTML5 deployment ?
>
> Livecode is perfectly able to run a simple HTTP server. It is perfectly
> possible and not too hard to write a basic one. In fact, we now even have
> an included library that makes it trivial to write that very basic server.
>
> Why didn't we (i.e. Livecode - a careful use of the word  "we") just
> package up that simple server, and then include that, with suitable
> instructions.
>
> That would have avoided any implication that LC is any less capable than
> other scripting languages, and avoided reminding anyone that LC doesn't
> (yet) come packaged with all the libraries and therefore utilities that you
> could hope for.
>
>
> So - I'm hoping to write a basic version (including my "get around the
> same-domain limitation") and get it, or something like it, included in the
> LC distribution, so that the documentation has no need to recommend another
> language.
>
> 
>
> Alex.
>
>
>
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