Re: Recreating a binary stack from xml text
In FileMaker, because it's inherent to the way they do it, I've never heard of it breaking. It's kind of a chickens vs. pigs situation -- where for breakfast the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed. If something goes wrong with safe rename, they just issue a note saying we're looking into it, don't use it for now. If something went wrong with FileMaker's renaming code, no one would be able to do anything until it was fixed -- not edit a script, maybe not even edit a layout. Not that it ever has been broken in Eclipse, just that the standard is different. It also goes to the mindset of the developer: in FileMaker it's just understood that you might rename something to make it clearer. For example if you and I work on a database together and you use plural column names and I use singular, when we inevitably fight to the death ;-) the victor would blithely change all the offending column names, without thinking about the (non-existent) consequences. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.netwrote: Geoff- Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 1:33:15 AM, you wrote: That sounds brittle -- or in practice does it Just Work? Well, it would probably be foolish to say it *always* works, but it's done the job for me when I've used it. I've been cautious, though, and done a dry run first to see what was going to change. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to use an array to solve the following...
Depends on how big the list is. Unless there's a faster method than the one I used (or you're using slower hardware than I am), you should be okay up to about 100,000 rows using something like: repeat for each line L in the keys of yourArray if L 20 and L 60 then put L cr after R end repeat -- 20 and 60 are your filter values, -- R is your result set On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 2:29 AM, Glen Bojsza gboj...@gmail.com wrote: If the final list is kept in sequential order based on the xs column I thought that either an sqlite database or arrays could be used for a basic query. I prefer arrays since it is probably easier to use for the desired result. The query would be based on the user selecting a starting xs value and and ending xs value with the resulting rows between (and including the starting and ending value rows). ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to use an array to solve the following...
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: repeat for each line L in the keys of yourArray if L 20 then put L cr after R if L 60 then exit repeat end if end if end repeat Don't waste cyling through lines you don't have to. Agreed, if the keys are sorted. I was assuming that they were coming straight from the keys of the array (as shown in my example) so you'd have to test the whole thing. I'd be curious which is faster: get the keys sort the keys do your script or get the keys do my script My first instinct is to say your solution, for the obvious reasons, but I've been fooled by the near-infinite speed of repeat for each too many times to count. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to use an array to solve the following...
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Glen Bojsza gboj...@gmail.com wrote: The good news is that the lists may grow as high as 1,000,000 lines and are as little as 30,000. 1,000,000 lines is pretty big. If you're guaranteed to be working on a recent machine, then perhaps it would be okay. But that's certainly pushing the limits of what makes sense in a repeat for each. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to use an array to solve the following...
As Richard said, the engine is smart enough to avoid this pitfall. So no, it's perfectly fine to say repeat for each line x in the keys of array y even if the list of keys is large. On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com wrote: Repeat for each line x in the keys of array y would seem at a glance to have to reevaluate the keys of array each time through the loop, wouldn't it? You must mean you get the keys first in a variable and then use that. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Recreating a binary stack from xml text
Yeah, I'm not by any means saying FileMaker is perfect. It has limitations I can't stand as well. Every environment I know does. I wish LC also had J's unlimited ability to handle arrays, and reversible functions, and several other features. I also wish -- desperately -- that LC had LISP's macros. It would be so awesome to be able to define new syntax. First class functions are a good idea as well. On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com wrote: One of the things that frustrated me with Filemaker is that references to tables were constants. You could not by script save the name of a table in a variable, and then reference the table by name. At the time it was essential to me to be able to do that, so I could set some environment variables at the outset depending on the company being edited, and have my code access the set of tables via their variable names. Also, while a graphical code editor may seem like a good idea at first, in practice it turns out to be quite a slow way of doing things. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Recreating a binary stack from xml text
Fair point. One thing I find interesting is how each environment I use brings something to the table that no other environment does (as well). For LiveCode, it's the built-in GUI builder and the interactive development. For FileMaker, it's the easy database, but equally important, it's the fact that all items -- scripts, layouts, columns, tables, etc. -- are abstracted from their names. In FileMaker, if you change the name of a table, then everywhere in any script that refers to that table, the script changes automatically to match. Change a layout name, same thing. That's something I wish every environment I use could have. Given that FileMaker has had this since at least 1994 or so, it's frustrating that no one else has picked it up. It's one of those things that seems obvious once you've experienced it /rant So I agree, reconciling the source when someone changes the name of an object would be a pain. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com wrote: I only mention card locking because the elements of a card typically interact with each other quite a bit. Imagine someone renaming a button that a card script accessed by name, or a field that was critical to saving data to a database. Also the process of checking out and in every object in a card could induce insanity. Bob On Feb 20, 2012, at 10:41 AM, gcanyon+rev wrote: Agreed that a full implementation would be better; I'm just saying that, compared to the present setup, where there is no source control whatsoever, a system that at least allowed merging code in a controlled fashion would be a huge improvement. I would hope we can do better than card-level locking, but better that than nothing at all. Sent from my iPad ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to use an array to solve the following...
Certainly correct, but there is not the tremendous performance advantage to using for each element in... For items, lines, and words, using item/line/word of myContainer gets worse the larger the container is. For character and with arrays, it doesn't. In my quick testing here, there's just about no performance advantage to doing repeat for each element. There's about a 4x benefit for using repeat for each char over repeat with i = 1 to length(myString) But note that it seems to be 4x regardless of the string length. That isn't the case with items, lines, and words -- there, the longer your container, the more you'll suffer. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com wrote: Also each element in array Bob On Feb 20, 2012, at 10:34 AM, gcanyon+rev wrote: any time you find yourself writing: repeat with i = 1 to the number of lines|words|items of someContainer stop. Rewrite it as: repeat for each line|word|item in someContainer ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Recreating a binary stack from xml text
I'm looking at the docs for Eclipse and I see safe rename. Is that what you're talking about? Out of curiosity does it mean that when you rename something, it goes through all your source files looking for references to that thing, and changes them? I understand that this is nitpicking, but I think FileMaker does something more robust. At least I think it does, I could be wrong. When FileMaker stores your script, it stores within it any references to tables, columns, scripts, etc., by some underlying id, not by name. Then, when it is time to display the script to you in the editor, it re-constitutes the names at that point. In any case, there is only the one tool for renaming things, and it always does the right thing. As I said, I could be wrong about how FileMaker does it. But by comparison, I'm fairly confident that in Eclipse what's going on is that, if you use the appropriate tool, you can not break things by renaming them because the tool will run around to all the source files and rename things for you. So while it is possible to not break names in other tools, in FileMaker it is literally impossible (other than if there is a bug, obviously) to break names. That said, I'd love to have in LC what Eclipse and Visual Studio have. gc On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net wrote: Both Visual Studio and Eclipse support that for refactoring. And yes, I miss it here. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Recreating a binary stack from xml text
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Alejandro Tejada capellan2...@gmail.comwrote: This is exactly the reason that drive me to ask if it is possible to rebuilt a binary stack from xml source: Does every control keeps its original ID? Not with the tool I created. It sounds like it's possible now. Because if that were the case, then it's only a matter of use only IDs to reference controls in the scripts and never, never use their names. This sounds like cutting off your scalp to cure your dandruff. I want to use names. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to use an array to solve the following...
You can get away with straight text for small data sets, but I would never suggest using a single variable and line references for random access on anything more than a few tens of thousands of lines -- although I will point out that in your test, even working with a million lines meant a worst case scenario of 1/10th of a second. But that isn't what repeat for each is about. It's for doing something with all the data, either sequentially or in aggregate. If you need random access to a large data set, then an array or a database is clearly the way to go. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.comwrote: Excellent rules of thumb, though there is a caveat to all this. Unfortunately I haven't seen a further response from Glen, as I was going to wait to ask one more question, before offering further suggestions; but I'll now offer it anyway. Glen doesn't mention what the final use/access of the data will be. If you are only every going to deal with the data as a whole, then repeat for each line will generally be the fastest. On the other hand, if after preparing all your lists and merging them, the final purpose is to pick small bits and pieces out of it from here, there and anywhere, arrays (or a db) might be better. So the caveat is, always test and compare. It might be faster to create and merge the data using repeat for each, but slower to access it that way. It might be slower to merge the data using arrays, but faster to access it final format. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Math problem
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.comwrote: I've tweaked your solution only slightly as you solution only worked for quarter hour increment, whilst both mine and Paul's would work for any required increment . I simply replace your fixed 4 with the 3600/increment that both Paul and I were using. Bother -- I saw the optimization for my own routine but forgot to apply it to the other two. With this correction it seems Paul slips into the lead: For 100 cycles K's solution = 2378ms Paul's solution = 2021ms Geoff's solution = 2283ms I'm surprised that a div isn't faster than a /, but since (on checking) a div seems to work perfectly well with non-integers -- 4.5 div 1.5 = 3, for example -- I have to think that within the engine it's really just a / with the results trunc'd. To include a variable increment I've used an array rather than the simple list you used in your script, which seems to have slowed things down, as I got similar times to your original output, but still I'm surprised it's twice as slow. repeat for each line is incredibly fast, so I'm not surprised that it beats an array. Interestingly, I was able to speed up all three solutions by doing this: get aTime[i][Increment] and then using it in the math makes things faster. Arrays aren't just slow, they're slow every time. Here's my latest optimization. All three options are similar. Here are a couple runs: For 100 cycles K's solution = 1643ms Paul's solution = 1496ms Geoff's solution = 1533ms For 100 cycles K's solution = 1618ms Paul's solution = 1544ms Geoff's solution = 1577ms For 100 cycles K's solution = 1667ms Paul's solution = 1584ms Geoff's solution = 1530ms I tried longer tests, but they're still really close. on mouseUp put 100 into tRepeats put 1329494400 into tStartTime --create an array of variable end times and increments repeat with i = 1 to tRepeats put (1329494400 + random(36000)) into aTime[i][End] put 300 * random(6) into aTime[i][Increment] end repeat --K solution put the millisec into tStartClock repeat for each key i in aTime get aTime[i][Increment] put round(((aTime[i][End] + (it/2) - 1 - \ tStartTime)/it),0) * it /3600 cr after tStore2 end repeat put the millisec - tStartClock into tTotalTime1 --Paul's maxless solution put the millisec into tStartClock repeat for each key i in aTime get aTime[i][Increment] put round(((aTime[i][End] -tStartTime)/it)+\ 0.4999,0) * it /3600 cr after tStore3 end repeat put the millisec - tStartClock into tTotalTime2 if (tStore2 tStore3) then put Paul's solution doesn't = K's cr after tErrors end if --Geoff's revised any increment solution put the millisec into tStartClock repeat for each key i in aTime get aTime[i][Increment] put (aTime[i][End] - tStartTime + it - 1) \ div it * it / 3600 cr after tStore4 end repeat put the millisec - tStartClock into tTotalTime3 if (tStore2 tStore4) then put Geoff's solution doesn't = K's cr after tErrors end if if (tStore3 tStore4) then put Geoff's solution doesn't = Paul's cr after tErrors end if put For tRepeats cycles cr into R put K's solution = tTotalTime1 ms cr after R put Paul's solution = tTotalTime2 ms cr after R put Geoff's solution = tTotalTime3 ms cr after R put R tErrors end mouseUp ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 6 Is A Mystery Number
Fair point -- no clue here. On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 1:02 AM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.comwrote: I was wondering if the engine counts it regardless of its visibility. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: New Math
Not exactly one line, but this works for all the combinations I could think of: function incTo x,i -- increments x to the next i if i = 0 then return x else if x mod i 0 and x * i 0 then return x div i * i else return x div i * i + i end if end incTo Here's my test results. First column is x, second is i, third is expected result, fourth is actual result, fifth is whether test passed: 30 20 40 40 true 20 20 40 40 true 30 -20 20 20 true 40 -20 20 20 true -30 20 -20 -20 true -20 20 0 0 true -30 -20 -40 -40 true -20 -20 -40 -40 true 0 20 20 20 true 0 -20 -20 -20 true -30 0 -30 -30 true ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Math problem
? That is the definition (and not a call). On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins pepe...@cox.net wrote: Certainly better than nothing; but, if you put it in the function definition instead of the calls, you only have to do it one time. Joe Wilkins On Feb 18, 2012, at 12:04 PM, gcanyon+rev wrote: I'm curious what you think of this, which is what I try to do regularly when I create one-liners (which I favor). function roundUp x,i -- rounds x up to the next i On Feb 18, 2012, at 11:23 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins pepe...@cox.net wrote: If you're going to use one liners like this, you'd better add some commentary. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Math problem
This is the entire function definition, with the comment in place: function roundUp x,i -- rounds x up to the next i return x div i * i + item itemoffset((x mod i 0),true,false) of (i,0) end roundUp I only included the first line in my original question because it's the only line with a comment. gc On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins pepe...@cox.net wrote: Kind of true Geoff, but the call would have arguments in place of parameters, whereas function roundUp x,i isn't the function's definition either. Not intending to nit-pick. Joe Wilkins Architect On Feb 18, 2012, at 7:01 PM, Geoff Canyon Rev wrote: ? That is the definition (and not a call). On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins pepe...@cox.net wrote: Certainly better than nothing; but, if you put it in the function definition instead of the calls, you only have to do it one time. Joe Wilkins On Feb 18, 2012, at 12:04 PM, gcanyon+rev wrote: I'm curious what you think of this, which is what I try to do regularly when I create one-liners (which I favor). function roundUp x,i -- rounds x up to the next i On Feb 18, 2012, at 11:23 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins pepe...@cox.net wrote: If you're going to use one liners like this, you'd better add some commentary. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Math problem
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Kay C Lan lan.kc.macm...@gmail.com wrote: Guys I thought I'd speed test these. Given that we're dealing in seconds (and therefore integers), the very clever itemoffset idea Peter came up with is unnecessary. Here's a comparison of the three options, with mine tweaked to be similar to my original idea (and to return hours, so it matches the output of the other two). I took the liberty of removing the max function from Paul's code, since all it does is restrict the rounding interval to a one minute interval, which was not part of the original spec, and also since this test uses a constant 15 minute interval, completely unused here. I got this on my MacBook: For 100 cycles K's solution = 1342ms Paul's solution = 1226ms Geoff's solution = 1095ms Which is to say that, at about 1 million calculations per second, any of these solutions would be fine in practice. gc on mouseUp put 100 into tRepeats --to create a list of times to use. --900 is used as fixed 1/4 hour interval put 1329494400 into tStartTime put 900 into tIncrement repeat with i = 1 to tRepeats put (1329494400 + random(36000)) cr after tStore end repeat --K solution put the millisec into tStartClock repeat for each line tEndTime in tStore put round(((tEndTime + (tIncrement/2) - 1 - \ tStartTime)/tIncrement),0)/(3600/tIncrement) cr after tStore2 end repeat put the millisec - tStartClock into tTotalTime1 --Paul's max solution put the millisec into tStartClock repeat for each line tEndTime in tStore put round(((tEndTime-tStartTime)/tIncrement)+\ 0.4999,0)/(3600/tIncrement) cr after tStore3 end repeat put the millisec - tStartClock into tTotalTime2 if (tStore2 tStore3) then put Paul's solution doesn't = K's cr after tErrors end if --Geoff's revised mod solution put the millisec into tStartClock repeat for each line tEndTime in tStore put (tEndTime - tStartTime + tIncrement - 1) \ div tIncrement / 4 cr after tStore4 end repeat put the millisec - tStartClock into tTotalTime3 if (tStore2 tStore4) then put Geoff's solution doesn't = K's cr after tErrors end if if (tStore3 tStore4) then put Geoff's solution doesn't = Paul's cr after tErrors end if put For tRepeats cycles cr into R put K's solution = tTotalTime1 ms cr after R put Paul's solution = tTotalTime2 ms cr after R put Geoff's solution = tTotalTime3 ms cr after R put R tErrors end mouseUp ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Math problem
On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 9:57 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com wrote: function whichOne var,fld1,fld2 -- from a handler by Tony Root -- Handles a case where you need to return one value if your key is empty, another if not. return (item offset(char 1 of (var = empty),tf) of quote fld1 , fld2 quote) end whichOne This seems unduly specialized. I use this function: function iff b,t,f --inline if statement if b is true then return t else return f end iff For your particular use case you would call it like this: return iff(var = empty,fld 1,fld 2) One drawback of this function is that all arguments must evaluate without error, so you can't replace something like this: if y = 0 then return x else return x/y with return iff(y = 0,x,x/y) because x/y will fail. Way back when in my crazy days I wrote a macro parser for the script editor, and one of the macros I wrote would take something like the above iff statement and expand it into the other statement so you could use the iff with impunity, but as I said, that was about ten years ago, and it was buggy. gc ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 6 Is A Mystery Number
I just tested with Rev 4.0 -- exact same issue. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] HyperCard and the Interactive Web
http://www.diybookscanner.org/ 1000 pages per hour, and as gentle as you can turn the pages. On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com wrote: Someone needs to make a machine something like a cat scanner but that can take a 3D image of an entire book so that the pages can be singled out and OCR applied to them without damaging the book. Then we could get on much better! :-) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Recreating a binary stack from xml text
I didn't store the ID because when I wrote it (and for long after that) the ID was immutable, so there was no need to store it because it couldn't be set. That said, I'm guessing that a monolithic XML file is not the way to go here. Someone who knows git better than I will correct me, but it would be more useful to store each item as a separate file within a directory (hierarchy). I'm tempted to say that there are some things that wouldn't be worth/necessary to put into version control. Heck, you could start with just the scripts. So if I'm working on a project with you, we could agree ahead of time that I'm not in charge of design, but just code. You could send me a copy of the stack at some point, and an IDE tool would be able to use basic git commands to refresh/update the scripts of all the objects. But because we agreed, I know that if I move an object, or create a new one, or delete one, that won't be captured. Maybe that's not ideal -- if I find that something is a pixel off, that's a pain not to be able to fix it right there. But it would be somewhat simpler to implement. On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 8:43 PM, Alejandro Tejada capellan2...@gmail.comwrote: Interesting enough, it does not include the ID among the properties saved as XML: http://www.inspiredlogic.com/mc/ripperoutput.html But adding this, and others new properties, should be a piece of cake for professionals developers in this platform. ( Not me! :-D ) ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 6 Is A Mystery Number
I turned it off -- no change. Same with the actual border. On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 11:25 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.comwrote: Not a clue. Could it be due to the focusborder? We can toggle the visibility, but the engine may still be counting it whether it is showing or not. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Math problem
Obviously you could do this inline, but then it wouldn't be reusable. I'd go with a function: function roundUp x,i -- rounds x up to the next i return ((x - .1) div i + 1) * i end roundUp function test T1,T2 -- returns the difference between two times in seconds -- rounded up to the next 15 minutes convert T1 to seconds convert T2 to seconds put roundUp(T2 - T1,900) into D return D end test The roundUp function will take any two numbers and return the first rounded up to the nearest increment of the second. Obviously the .001 aspect is a limitation -- if I were being particular I suppose I'd use an if statement there, but you wanted math and this seems good enough. So: put roundUp(60,10) -- puts 60 put roundUp(61,10) -- puts 70 Having this function makes it easy to do the time math you were talking about, as shown in the test function. gc ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Math problem
My original function took the number to be rounded and the increment to round up to, so I think your version would become: function roundUp x,i -- rounds x up to the next i return x div i * i + item itemoffset((x mod i 0),true,false) of (i,0) end roundUp On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Peter M. Brigham, MD pmb...@gmail.comwrote: function roundUp x return trunc(x) + char itemoffset((x mod 1 0),true,false) of 10 end roundUp ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: A shorter way to express this?
As David suggested, you should definitely use for each line... As your data grows it will operate in linear time, while using line x of... will be something like quadratic time I think. If fully numerical indexes for your array are acceptable, this would work put 1 into i repeat for each line L in fld 2 split L using tab put L into x[i] add 1 to i end repeat ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Android stats
It's just my assumption, but I would think that the *vast* majority of Android users leave in place whatever is on their device. It takes some geek-ish effort to root, and most people want nothing to do with that. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:14 PM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.comwrote: Very true, and I don't see much hope for improvement. On the other hand, it's pretty much expected you'll jailbreak an Android tablet so people update that way. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Android stats
Have you read the latest on how ATT is treating those of us hanging onto our unlimited plans? (I do the same thing) I've seen demonstrations of how they throttle your connection once you exceed about 2GB per month. You pay as much as someone with a 3GB plan, but beyond 2.1GB or so, you get roughly 1/10th the bandwidth :-/ gc On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com wrote: I rooted my iPhone ONLY because I could tether it without having to pay YET AGAIN for the unlimited data I was grandfathered into. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Problem with Latin 1 (I think)
I'm retrieving a url and parsing the HTML. If I view the URL in Safari (all of this on a mac) there are places where safari shows isn’t but livecode shows isn‚Äôt I'm using 5.0.2, and isotomac doesn't seem to fix this. Any suggestions? thx -- gc ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Menu Builder
One thing that I've often thought would make a lot of sense is to have an array of starter projects, from Single window with menubar to splash screen with multiple document windows etc. It seems like a small handful of these would save a lot of beginners (and the rest of us!) a lot of time. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT}] Hypercard and an uneasy read.
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com wrote: Let me propose that a solution cannot be simpler than the problem it is meant to solve. Assuming that this is true, it is nevertheless possible for a solution to be far, far more complex than the problem it is intended to solve. One quote representing this concept is: Some people, when confronted with a problem, think “I know, I'll use regular expressions.” Now they have two problems. I'll go further than my original statement and say that *every* solution is far more complex than the problem it is intended to solve. HyperCard was no exception. If the problem to be solved is build a rolodex (and you're not allowed to simply use the built-in one) consider how much work went into the built-in rolodex. By comparison, my problem statement is nearly complete; add a few semi-obvious statements about searching, printing, etc., and you have a working product spec, but to implement that in HyperCard would take significant effort. Anyone know how many lines of code there are in the built-in rolodex stack? Every language I've used has some feature that I wish every other language I use has. As one example, in FileMaker, all references are abstracted, so if you rename a table, or a column, or a layout, etc., all references to that object in your code will automatically adjust. *That* is a feature I would pay serious money for, but I don't know any other language/environment that has it. Not to be a grump (warning, I'm about to be grumpy) but there are several aspects of LiveCode as it stands that are significantly more complex than they should be. The one that has been tormenting me over the last few weeks is the datagrid, and its lack of native syntax. put row 3 to 8 of column firstname,column lastname or something like it should just work. Stepping away from the soap box now... ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Indirect reference
You can't use put something into myVariable but as Andrew says you can make it work with a do statement. As long as the variable contains a valid object reference, you can set properties on the variable, so this will work also: *put* field quote test quote into x *set* the text of x to hello -- the field now contains hello. On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Howard Bornstein bornst...@designeq.comwrote: I want to put something into field Time via this variable. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Am I misunderstanding data grids?
Do I really need to edit the script of each column's template object to insert an exit mouseDoubleUp if I want that column not to be editable? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: List of handlers
Interesting -- I'd forgotten about the token keyword. It still doesn't handle block comments though: on mouseUp /*this is a on aCommentedCommand comment*/ put token 1 to -1 of the script of me into tText put empty into tMenuText repeat for each line L in tText if word 1 of L is among the items of on,function,getprop,setprop,command,private then put L cr after tMenuText end repeat put tMenuText end mouseUp That puts on mouseUp on aCommentedCommand gc On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Mark Schonewille m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com wrote: Geoff, Try this: put token 1 to -1 of the script of tID into tText put empty into tMenuText repeat for each line L in tText if word 1 of L is among the items of on,function,getprop,setprop,command,private then put L cr after tMenuText end repeat -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Send me a friend request on Facebook if you like https://www.facebook.com/marksch On 11 sep 2011, at 23:07, Geoff Canyon Rev wrote: This doesn't work with block comments, but this is what I used in revNavigator: put the script of tID into tText put empty into tMenuText repeat for each line L in tText if word 1 of L is among the items of on,function,getprop,setprop then put L cr after tMenuText end repeat ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: List of handlers
This doesn't work with block comments, but this is what I used in revNavigator: put the script of tID into tText put empty into tMenuText repeat for each line L in tText if word 1 of L is among the items of on,function,getprop,setprop then put L cr after tMenuText end repeat ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] More Apple Foolishness
I used to do this. Then I realized that it was quicker (if more complex and less intuitive) to: 1. Drag something off the shelf at the bottom of the screen if necessary to make room 2. Drag the item I want to move onto the shelf 3. Go to the home screen, either by swiping (easier than dragging) or by dropping out of rearrange mode, clicking the home button, and going back into rearrange mode 4. Drag the item I want to move onto screen 1 5. If step 1 was necessary, go back to the original screen and put the item I dragged off the shelf back onto the shelf. I agree, this aspect of the UI is not optimal. On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Chipp Walters ch...@chipp.com wrote: Try dragging an icon across 7 pages of OTHER icons to deposit in a folder on page 1. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: How to add something to a group
There are several; Navigator (mine) is one, but it is ancient, unmaintained and somewhat buggy at this point. I believe I already said this, but anyone who still wants to use it can do so for free at this point. An even more ancient version of navigator comes with your standard installation; you can get an updated (but still ancient) version here: http://inspiredlogic.com/navigator/Navigator.html gc On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Pete Haworth lists.p...@haworths.orgwrote: Another way is: - Place the button where you want it. - Select the group - Click Ungroup - Shift click the new button so it's selected along with all the original members of the group - Click Group LC remembers all the properties of the group and reinstates them (as long as you don't close the card before grouping). I believe there's a plugin available somewhere that provides ways of adding controls to a group by re-layering but I can't remember what it's called. Pete On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com wrote: Graphically: 1. Click group to be edited 2. Click Edit Group on your button bar, or select it in the Object menu 3. Add your button (or paste it if you cut it previously) 4. (very important) Click the Edit Group button (or menu) again or everything else you do from here on out will be done to the group! (ask me how I know) Bob On Jul 26, 2011, at 3:23 AM, Matthias Rebbe wrote: Hi, maybe a dumb question, but how do i add for example a button to an already existing group? Matthias ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: what RGB is blue?
I guess I'm playing devil's advocate, but if you were testing for blue-ness, wouldn't you convert to HSV and compare the H, regardless of S or V? gc On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:52 AM, Mark Schonewille m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com wrote: Tiemo, The distance between any colour (1) and a colour chosen by you (2; e.g. r=0, g=0, b=255) can be calculated as sqrt((r1-r2)^2+(g1-g2)^2+(b1-b2)^2) = T where T is a threshold between 0 and 442 set by you. Change the colour of the background pixel whenever the distance between the colour of that pixel and your selected colour is less than the threshold. I use this technique in Color Converter http://www.color-converter.com -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 New: Download the Installer Maker Plugin 1.6 for LiveCode here http://qery.us/ce On 1 jul 2011, at 11:39, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote: Hello, I am taking the mousecolor at different points from an image by script (not by clicking). I would like to analyse if the color I've taken is a kind of blue, or another color. I want to change the backgroundcolor of an image. The background is always blue, but different blues and changing over the background. So what I want to do is to verify, what is background and what is foreground of my image. 100% pure blue would be 0,0,255. But for a human being 25,75,130 (greyblue) is also still blue, but 240,20,180 is pink, though the third RGB value is higher as in my greyblue. So I can't just check only the third RGB value, neither the sum or cross total. Has anybody ever heard, if you can define at all by math what is blue? Any color specialist around here? Tiemo ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Has anyone experimented with memo functions in LC?
This would work for a particular function. I was looking for a general solution that would allow memo-ing any function without further consideration. In J, for example, you just and M. to the function definition, and you're done. If I were to do something like this in LC I'd want to implement something similarly robust and simple to use. As to why I want to: no particular reason, other than memo seems vaguely possible in LC, and a useful thing to have. I like pushing the language forward. gc On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Dick Kriesel dick.krie...@mail.com wrote: Hi, Geoff. Here's a way to memoize without parsing the functions' arguments, so commas won't be a pain. local sMemo function memoize pFunctionName, pParam1, pParam2 local tDigest put md5( the params ) into tDigest if tDigest is among the keys of sMemo then get sMemo[ tDigest ] else get value( pFunctionName ( item 2 to -1 of the params ) put it into sMemo[ tDigest ] end if return it end memoize Calling MD5 makes the array's keys shorter. IIRC, that's good, although when I tried to find evidence about it in the current docs, I couldn't find it. Does this help? -- Dick On Jun 11, 2011, at 2:23 PM, Geoff Canyon Rev wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoization I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with creating an automatic memoization function within LC? Given that we can access argument lists, and have do, it seems possible, but I'm betting commas in the arguments would be a pain. Something like this: function m functionName local callHistory,callHistoryValue -- parse out addition arguments to m -- concatenate functionName arguments into functionCallString if callHistory[functionCallString] is not empty then return callHistoryValue[functionCallString] end if -- get the function result put it into callHistoryValue[functionCallString] put 1 into callHistory[functionCallString] return it end m ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: 5000 lines of code
Richmond, you could rewrite that to be much more efficient, both in code, and I'm guessing in performance. Instead of this: case (numToChar(2339) numToChar(2325)) set the unicodeText of fld fPROC to numToChar(61953) put 2 into DDROP break case (numToChar(2339) numToChar(2326)) set the unicodeText of fld fPROC to numToChar(61954) put 2 into DDROP break case (numToChar(2339) numToChar(2327)) set the unicodeText of fld fPROC to numToChar(61955) break etc. Do this: First, set up a custom property (or preference file, if you like). It should contain this: numToChar(2339) numToChar(2325) tab numToChar(61953) numToChar(2339) numToChar(2326) tab numToChar(61954) numToChar(2339) numToChar(2327) tab numToChar(61955) etc. Then during startup, do this: global fPROCTable put the fPROCCustomProc of this stack into fPROCTable split fPROCTable by cr and tab Then, in place of that amazing switch statement, use this one line of code: set the unicodeText of fld fPROC to subTable[the unicodeText of fld fBUILT] If you also want to set DDROP then you could tweak that first array or just create a second array, which is probably better. The line of code for that would be something like: if DDROPTable[the unicodeText of fld fBUILT] is not empty then put DDROPTable[the unicodeText of fld fBUILT] into DDROP regards, Geoff On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Richmond Mathewson richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote: If anybody really cares here is a PDF of the code in ONE object in my Devawriter Pro: read it and weep . . . :) http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/**richmond/PRO/KODE/5000.pdfhttp://andregarzia.on-rev.com/richmond/PRO/KODE/5000.pdf you never know; you might learn something, get a headache, or both! __**_ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecodehttp://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Has anyone experimented with memo functions in LC?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoization I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with creating an automatic memoization function within LC? Given that we can access argument lists, and have do, it seems possible, but I'm betting commas in the arguments would be a pain. Something like this: function m functionName local callHistory,callHistoryValue -- parse out addition arguments to m -- concatenate functionName arguments into functionCallString if callHistory[functionCallString] is not empty then return callHistoryValue[functionCallString] end if -- get the function result put it into callHistoryValue[functionCallString] put 1 into callHistory[functionCallString] return it end m ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: I need advise on slow start standalone
curious how you're going from an 80mb stack to an 8mb standalone. In any case, likely you should change it so you only load content when you need it. If you have any openstack, preopenstack, opencard, preopencard handlers, throw some diagnostics in them to keep track of time as they execute, to figure out where the time is going, something like: put ticks() step one cr after displayThisWhenStartupIsComplete gc ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Getting a list of groups on a card
This should work: *function* allGroupNames X *-- returns all groups for id X* *repeat* with i = 1 to the number of groups of X *put* the short name of of *group* i of X cr after R *end* *repeat* *return* R *end* allGroupNames ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Performance issue with groups
Not sure what's specifically going on in your case, but any time you work with fields the engine works to render all the text whenever something changes. It can really add up. gc On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:43 AM, JosepM jmye...@mac.com wrote: Yes, with lock screen the performance is the normal. But why this big difference to group the fields into 4 groups? Salut, Josep -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Performance-issue-with-groups-tp3311867p3312216.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Performance issue with groups
My guess would be screen updates -- lock screen before you show/hide and see if the delay goes away. On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 5:50 PM, JosepM jmye...@mac.com wrote: Hi, I experimented a slow (very) slow performance when I grouped the fields of one card into 4 groups showing one of each as required. But the problem seems that isn't show and hide the groups, the problem is located when click the datagrid and then the fields of the visible group are showed. if I ungroup the 4 groups and show all the fields at same time the performance is the normal. Any idea why? Salut, Josep -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Performance-issue-with-groups-tp3311867p3311867.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: An idea on multithreading implementation
How would you handle race conditions and deadlock in a livecode-like way? If the engine could make it as easy as with new thread that would be awesome, but I think we'd also need ways to prevent/handle the issues that come with concurrency. gc On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com wrote: When I started this whole thread, what I had in mind was a simple method for allowing commands and even whole stacks to run concurrently with other stacks, while still being able to communicate with each other through the engine. All the stuff about enabling and disabling communications between things is to me irrelevant. Just compile 2 apps and they will not be able to talk natively to each other. Done deal. Some tell me that multithreading is not that simple. Well nothing under the hood of any app is simple, and triply so for a development environment. My idea was for the engine to handle communications between all of it's objects the way it does now, but have concurrent processes IF YOU WANTED. By default, I envision LiveCode working just the way it does now, with the OPTION to say something like: open stack Accounts Receivable with new thread or do ReportGen with new thread I could then check in on the state of a global from time to time in my Progress Bar modal stack or switch back to my Order Entry stack and continue entering my customer's order while the report generator was running. See? I personally do not have any interest whatsoever managing all the threading myself. I use LiveCode so I do not HAVE to know or understand that sort of thing. I am only one person. One of the things that LiveCode allows us to do, which is not talked about much, is to produce really nice and functional applications with incredibly minimal resources (like only one developer!) Bob On Jan 31, 2011, at 9:35 AM, form wrote: Even discounting games, I'd love to be able to designate a substack to being threaded, disabling its access to objects in other stacks, and limiting communication to event/message passing. It would be very much like using the open process command with a Windows command line program. (WHY doesn't it work with Mac command line programs?!?!) I use open process is a stack to start a makefile and monitor its output while keeping the interface perfectly responsive. I do the same on a mac using a shell command outputting to a text file that I sample the tail from in another shell command. Hackier, but it gets the basic job done. But if I have LiveCode that I want to start and monitor, I'm out of luck. (Without getting REALLY hacky, that is.) ~ Chris Innanen ~ Nonsanity On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Bob Sneidar b...@twft.com wrote: Well now that there is Livecode for iApps, a lot of people may want it, but I for one am never going to develop a game, even a simple one. Bob On Jan 29, 2011, at 5:06 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: Hi All, It's nice to read discussions about features that enhance this platform, but now I have one doubt: How many developers (who use Livecode) want to see this platform converted in a game engine? Notice that the only DLL in my wish list for this platform is a SWF player, that allows to run movies inside a stack, just like the Quicktime externals. I do not want to see a Timeline in this platform... At least in my mind, you could not build (easily) the kind of applications created with Livecode if it were a game engine. Am I wrong? Or There are no boundaries anymore among Software Development tools? Al ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: An idea on multithreading implementation
I think we're talking apples and oranges. As I said, the difference between yield() and wait 0 ticks is that one supports two (or more) pieces of code running in parallel (not simultaneously) with state, and the other doesn't. This would be a big benefit when programming things like: Currently it is very difficult simply to program any sort of background task whatsoever: processing a log file, making aliens attack, etc. wait 0 ticks simply isn't a good answer for those sorts of issues. Ask Malte what he could do for animationEngine (and how much more simply) with coroutines. Agreed that wait 0 ticks isn't a good solution to these sorts of issues, and I wasn't trying to imply that it was (if my original email came across that way). So I think we're agreed that coroutines would make this easier than wait 0 ticks. Coroutines are not pre-emptive. I didn't say they were. I also didn't say they'd improve performance. Coroutines would make several types of programming problems much easier to code. I'm not saying they'd make them run faster, except that there are things that are prohibitively hard to do with wait that would be easy with yield. Those things would run much faster, since they can't run at all now. As long as someone took the time to make an OpenGL plugin for LC, rendering could be made fast enough for most simple 2D games Yes, of course if you bolt an engine on your bicycle it will go faster. I'm not saying LiveCode _can't_ be made faster, just that threads + the current architecture is still way too slow. Threading current LiveCode graphics across 2, 4, or even 8 cores is going to give you a sucky game that eats batteries and still can't compete with Flash on graphics, let alone native code. The problem with yielding (or waiting in LC terms) is that it basically puts me back into the Atari 2600 days of cycle counting, without the precision of being able to actually count cycles ;-). I have no idea how often I should yield in order to make things nice and smooth. It would be SOOO much more convenient if I could just make LC pre-emptive and wait for me like so: send renderFrame to me every 30 milliseconds Agreed that pre-emptive threads (or messages if you like) would make this easier to manage. Summary: * What people seem to want here is pre-emption (however that happens). Well, _I_ would be happy with coroutines, and I think I I understand what I'm asking for ;-) * Coroutines are cooperative threads, which means they are not pre-emptive. Yep, totally agreed. I still want them. * If you have to yield, it doesn't matter how many HW threads you use. Perhaps agreed. If the underlying engine breaks up tasks and can run them across multiple cores your whole app will be faster, but that's independent of what we're doing above the engine. And based on your OpenGL comment, I think we're both agreed that for game-style graphics performance, neither coroutines nor threads will fix the problem -- what's needed (if indeed people want this) is a new graphics library, either as a plugin or directly in the engine. regards, Geoff ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: An idea on multithreading implementation
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Jeffrey Massung mass...@gmail.com wrote: Geoff (btw, Jeff here ;-)), Okay, I think I completely understand where the disconnect lies - and it's with my understanding of the LC internals. I put together a very simple stack that's nothing more than a field Test and a button. The button script looks like this: ... Now, if LC essentially already had coroutines, when done, the output in the field should be something like 1a2b3c... (with newlines of course). However, that's not what's in the field. Instead the output is 123456...abcdef... This is likely what you were alluding to and I wasn't getting, and this puts an entirely different face on the conversation. Yep, that's what I was talking about. Sorry I wasn't clearer. The issue isn't coroutines vs. whatever so much as LC doesn't actually allow (from what I can tell) for multiple execution contexts. Coroutines - obviously - is one method of achieving this goal, and I would agree that it is a preferred solution. I hope the test above puts this discussion to rest and is a hint to the Rev team on a direction they can take. I'd vote for that. Now, not to be pedantic, but your last paragraph didn't really make much sense [to me]. Coroutines - since they must yield and don't run in parallel - are are still single-threaded. This means that you could run 100 contexts on 100 HW threads, and your program will run at exactly the same speed as if they were on 1 HW thread (this assumes that the OS isn't hyperthreading your application with others). In what way do you think threads would speed up performance? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: An idea on multithreading implementation
To those proposing a SWF player, why would that be better than an improvement in native LC graphics performance? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: An idea on multithreading implementation
On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:16 AM, Jeffrey Massung mass...@gmail.com wrote: Coroutines have absolutely no advantage over what's already provided by LC. There's zero difference between saying yield() and wait 0 ticks with messages. I realized that, apart from the fact that this isn't true, it's also kind of my point: from a developer standpoint, coroutines work fairly similarly to what many already do when they want to have two or three things going at once. Hence they would be a significant improvement (because they maintain state automatically) with very little effort required on the part of livecode developers. The purpose of mutli-threading is to take advantage of one or more of the following: a completely separate hardware thread (program/code runs 100% in parallel with another program/set of code - the only bottlenecks being memory and I/O) or preemptive threading, typically by way of hyper-threading on a single hardware thread (basically letting the hardware or OS decide when to context switch for you). This is true, but it's not a fair description of the current limitations of livecode. Currently it is very difficult simply to program any sort of background task whatsoever: processing a log file, making aliens attack, etc. wait 0 ticks simply isn't a good answer for those sorts of issues. Ask Malte what he could do for animationEngine (and how much more simply) with coroutines. Yes, threads are filled with awesome powah, but they're also a lot of work to get right, and filled with pitfalls. Coroutines, by comparison, are easy, and would make a lot of things easy to do that are currently hard or impossible. One other thing, just in case -- anyone who thinks threads will make livecode a powerhouse for developing videogames is mistaken. That would require an overhaul of the graphics engine. You can devote 100% of livecode's attention to moving stuff around on the screen and come up short on performance by a couple orders of magnitude. I don't say that to criticize livecode, it's just that graphics performance isn't their focus, never has been, and doesn't seem as though it will be any time soon. Flight Control is well within livecode's capabilities now. Angry Birds might be a stretch. Fruit Ninja would be a real achievement, and forget about Real Racing. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Ooo -- I just had an idea for a flight-control-like game. Guess I need to get that iOS license after all... gc ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Layers, revNavigator, DataGrids
I'm looking at it now... On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Peter Brigham MD pmb...@gmail.com wrote: On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:25 AM, Chipp Walters wrote: AltLayerTools http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altLayerTools.rev It keeps you from moving objects in and out of groups. It only move groups around. just put in msg box: go URL http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altLayerTools.rev; then save to plugins. I use with my toolbar palette. here's another which is most helpful: AltGroupMgr http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altGroupMgr.txt It does a great job of placing and removing groups on different cards. Both use ZERO frontscripts in favor of a 'refresh button,' mostly for robustness and lack of conflict with some of my other frontscripts. I really need to create a single frontscript library which manages everything. C'est la vie. But no replacement for the really great ability that revNavigator used to have, of moving a control (or a group) in or out of a group? That's what I miss! Geoff Canyon, can you convince that developer of yours to do something about this...? :-) -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmb...@gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Layers, revNavigator, DataGrids
Hi Paul -- I, too, have been limping along with a revNavigator that I can't stop using but which has fallen behind the dev environment in a few areas. I should really talk to the developer and convince him to update that thing... I'll try to find some time this weekend to have a look at the layering code to see what's going wonky. The whole thing needs a re-write in the worst way. I hadn't done much development in Rev for several years, but in the past year I've built three tools critical to my place of employment. If I gave as much attention as I gave to those tools to revNavigator it would be shining your shoes right now. gc On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Paul Looney supp...@ahsomme.com wrote: Fellow Programmers, For many years I've used the revNavigator plugin to layer objects - to move objects to any layer, into and out of groups, from one group to another, etc. Somewhere around Rev 3.5 the revNavigator broke. Dragging objects in the list would only put bookmarks at the top of the list - leaving the selected object in its original layer. Using the Option key to move objects in groups (per the instructions) did not help. I am referring to revNavigator 3.0 RC 1. I can open the stack in an older version of Rev, with the older version of the Navigator and relayering works properly. BUT... Having adjusted the object layers in an older version of Rev, the DataGrids will not work on the stack when it is reopened in LC 4.0 or 4.5.1. All of the grid objects are there but they have no intelligence: 1. setting the dgText of the grid group does nothing - does not produce an error, using a try/catch shows nothing 2. the columns are the same size but have no column widths in the Columns tab on the object inspector 3. the behavior of group 'DataGrid' returns empty, not button id 1005 of stack revDataGridLibrary The original grids in the stack are broken. I can add new grids and they work properly. BUT... If I replace the old grids with new ones, I have no way to put them in the proper layers - short of completely rebuilding a very complex stack. So, two questions: 1. Can you recommend something for layering objects in LC 4.5.1 and later? 2. Is there a way to fix the broken datagrid described above? FYI, LC 4.0 tested on OS X 10.4.11 on a G4 PowerBook and LC 4.5.1 tested on OS X 10.6.6 on an Intel Mac Mini. I really appreciate your help. Paul Looney ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What with all it's features and platforms I sometimes forget
On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.comwrote: Well; good, effective programming is rarely either EASY or FUN; and more often than not involves a lot of prolonged effort, thought, and hard work. Programming is like playing tennis. I'm sure there are professional tennis players who don't enjoy playing the game. They've either grown tired of it, or they simply discovered they had the knack, or fell into it somehow and now they're stuck. But in general, good players like the game, or even love it. It's just so much easier to be good at something you enjoy doing, and it is absolutely possible to find programming fun, even when it's hard. To tell would-be end-users that they can create wonderful things without a fairly serious investment of time and effort is simply disingenuous. I disagree. Granted I have more than a few years invested, but most of the things I've created over the years have been quick and simple. LC's advantage over other languages/environments starts near infinity, and drops to zero or even negative as the size of the project grows. At the one extreme is the fact that I can create a workable program and compile it for several platforms in five minutes or less. In the middle, I have many times prototyped something in less than an hour or two that dropped jaws. At the other extreme there are the times I would kill or die for real handler-level integrated source control. Or macros -- what I'd give for macros. gc ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Livecode iOS app live in the app store
Not arguing what will look good -- in that I would always defer to Scott -- in real life shadows from the sun do not change size in any appreciable way no matter how high something is, because compared to 93 million miles, 1 foot above the ground is much the same as 1000 feet above the ground. Congratulations, John, the game looks good! gc ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
