Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

2021-09-02 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Sounds like a very cool idea to me, but I’m sure it’s complicated! I trust LC 
to do what’s best for its future.

Roger


> On Sep 2, 2021, at 7:34 AM, Keith Martin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think this is (potentially) an excellent idea. Running stacks is more 
> important in education use than building standalones, and the knowledge that 
> a standalone CAN be made by simply ’trading up’ to a paid-for version of LC 
> might be an interesting sell. But I would be surprised if this sort of thing 
> hasn’t already been considered.
> 
> k
> 
> 
>> On 2 Sep 2021, at 15:20, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> This is a good idea. I sometimes use the IDE to do a quickie text
>> manipulation task. A couple of buttons and some text file/db processing and
>> BOOM! It's done in the fraction of the time of other languages. I have now
>> done some text chunk coding that highlights many of LCs features. I can now
>> buy a platform or two If I want to expand the IDE to building distributable
>> apps.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
>> Of Michael Kristensen via use-livecode
>> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2021 9:50 AM
>> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Cc: Michael Kristensen
>> Subject: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>> 
>> Hi there
>> 
>> I suggest that there could be a Non-Appbuilding Community Edition
>> 
>> That would be for personal use, and to learn coding.
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
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Re: Annoying double parens, brackets and quotes

2021-08-03 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I can well imagine. Thank you, Mark!

Roger

> On Aug 3, 2021, at 3:19 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> That feature is a real pain-in-the-bum when teaching.
> 
> On 3.08.21 г. 4:13, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Could someone please tell me how to turn off the double parens, brackets and 
>> quotes in the script editor? IOW when I type ( , I don’t want ( ).
>> 
>> Thanks very much!!
>> 
>> Roger
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Annoying double parens, brackets and quotes

2021-08-02 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Could someone please tell me how to turn off the double parens, brackets and 
quotes in the script editor? IOW when I type ( , I don’t want ( ).

Thanks very much!!

Roger
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Re: 3-way slider control

2021-05-25 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Nice! I like the idea of this because it gets the readout away from the cursor 
so that you can read it.

Roger

> On May 25, 2021, at 11:18 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry: went a bit bonkers:
> 
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7=35903
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 25.05.21 20:23, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Ah yes, I knew that but had forgotten it. Thank you, Klaus!
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On May 25, 2021, at 10:11 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi freinds,
>>> 
>>> this - ≥
>>> is a MAC-only character and will throw an error on Windows!
>>> Use/replace with:
>>> <=
>>>> =
>>> <>
>>> for full platform comatibilty!
>>> 
>>>> Am 25.05.2021 um 19:06 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>> :
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Paul, I’m not able to duplicate the error here. Can you tell what 
>>>> control you were adjusting?
>>>> 
>>>> You should be able to achieve what you want by changing the ‘backBar” grc 
>>>> style from roundrect to oval. You might have to play with the code a bit, 
>>>> but it should work.
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>>>> Thank you. ScrollbarOmatic looks like I could adjust setting to get 
>>>>> something closer to a "circle inside an oval" 3-position switch. FYI as I 
>>>>> was adjusting the controls to get the style I am seeking the following 
>>>>> error popped up:
>>>>> 
>>>>> *compiling at 11:34:54 AM*
>>>>> 
>>>>> Type Expression: bad factor
>>>>> 
>>>>> Object backBar
>>>>> 
>>>>> Line if tx ≥ tIndEndPos then
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hint ≥
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did not seem to actually impact continue to refine the appearance.
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Klaus
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Klaus Major
>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>>> kl...@major-k.de
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: 3-way slider control

2021-05-25 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Ah yes, I knew that but had forgotten it. Thank you, Klaus!

Roger

> On May 25, 2021, at 10:11 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi freinds,
> 
> this - ≥
> is a MAC-only character and will throw an error on Windows!
> Use/replace with:
> <=
>> =
> <>
> for full platform comatibilty!
> 
>> Am 25.05.2021 um 19:06 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi Paul, I’m not able to duplicate the error here. Can you tell what control 
>> you were adjusting?
>> 
>> You should be able to achieve what you want by changing the ‘backBar” grc 
>> style from roundrect to oval. You might have to play with the code a bit, 
>> but it should work.
>> 
>> Roger
>>> 
>>> Thank you. ScrollbarOmatic looks like I could adjust setting to get 
>>> something closer to a "circle inside an oval" 3-position switch. FYI as I 
>>> was adjusting the controls to get the style I am seeking the following 
>>> error popped up:
>>> 
>>> *compiling at 11:34:54 AM*
>>> 
>>> Type Expression: bad factor
>>> 
>>> Object backBar
>>> 
>>> Line if tx ≥ tIndEndPos then
>>> 
>>> Hint ≥
>>> 
>>> I did not seem to actually impact continue to refine the appearance.
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
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Re: 3-way slider control

2021-05-25 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Hi Paul, I’m not able to duplicate the error here. Can you tell what control 
you were adjusting?

You should be able to achieve what you want by changing the ‘backBar” grc style 
from roundrect to oval. You might have to play with the code a bit, but it 
should work.

Roger
> 
> Thank you. ScrollbarOmatic looks like I could adjust setting to get something 
> closer to a "circle inside an oval" 3-position switch. FYI as I was adjusting 
> the controls to get the style I am seeking the following error popped up:
> 
> *compiling at 11:34:54 AM*
> 
> Type Expression: bad factor
> 
> Object backBar
> 
> Line if tx ≥ tIndEndPos then
> 
> Hint ≥
> 
> I did not seem to actually impact continue to refine the appearance.
> 
> ___

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Re: 3-way slider control

2021-05-24 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
And if you need color and stuff, you can download my ScrollbarOmatic under 
Roger Guay from Sample Stacks.

Roger

> On May 24, 2021, at 3:28 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 5/24/21 3:18 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I am looking to see if anyone has a 3-positions slider control they might be 
>> willing to share. I need a control that has a "left, middle, and Right" 
>> positions (whatever they are called). Prefer horizontal orientation and 
>> resizable so I can adjust the size to the screen area where it needs to go, 
>> but I can resize graphics if needed.
> 
> You can do this with LC's built-in horizontal scrollbar. Drag a Slider 
> control to the card. Set the start value to 1 and the end value to 3. By 
> default there will be numbers displayed but you can turn those off and use 
> labels underneath instead.
> 
> Put this script into the slider. It should make the slider snap to one of the 
> three positions:
> 
> 
> on scrollBarDrag
>  set the thumbPos of me to the thumbpos of me mod(4)
> end scrollBarDrag
> 
> If you want to change the color, use an effects overlay. None of the built-in 
> color properties apply.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

2021-05-06 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Good catch, Gabe. my menubar is set to the bottom MBP display, and didn’t think 
to mess with the menubar in the top display.

Thanks,
Roger

> On May 6, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Gabe J via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Oh, I think I see what the difference is: The screenRects will be in a
> different order depending on which screen the menubar is set to. So, when
> the menubar is set to the top screen, your script sends stack "revMenubar"
> to the bottom screen. I was running with the menubar set to be on the top
> screen. The solution would be to cycle through the working screenRects
> looking for the highest top.
> 
> Gabe
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 2:01 PM Gabe J  wrote:
> 
>> Yeah, "Displays have separate Spaces" is unchecked. Yes, your script is
>> moving stack "revMenubar" to near the top of the bottom screen when the top
>> and bottom screen are left-aligned, but since it is on the bottom screen
>> (below stacks on the top screen) the stacks above it on the top screen do
>> not work properly when manually moved. (LC 9.6.1 and macOS Catalina). The
>> solution is to just always move stack "revMenubar" to near the top of the
>> top screen.
>> 
>> Gabe
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 1:52 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Huh . . . this is hard to understand since the script toggles revMenubar
>>> precisely to the top of one monitor or the other based on returned
>>> screenRects.
>>> 
>>> And, you unchecked the “Displays have separate Spaces” in the Mission
>>> Control System Prefs?
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>>> On May 6, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Gabe J via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> However, I just tried your script and it looks like it isn't working. I
>>>> have an external screen positioned above my laptop and it ran into the
>>> same
>>>> problem: Since stack "revMenubar" is positioned lower than some of the
>>>> stacks (when those stacks are on the top screen), the stacks will
>>> report as
>>>> being below their visual position (when manually moved), or they just
>>> jump
>>>> down to the bottom screen to be under stack "revMenubar" when I try to
>>>> position them on the top screen. I'm using LC 9.6.1.
>>> 
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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

2021-05-06 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Huh . . . this is hard to understand since the script toggles revMenubar 
precisely to the top of one monitor or the other based on returned screenRects.

And, you unchecked the “Displays have separate Spaces” in the Mission Control 
System Prefs?

Roger

> On May 6, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Gabe J via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> However, I just tried your script and it looks like it isn't working. I
> have an external screen positioned above my laptop and it ran into the same
> problem: Since stack "revMenubar" is positioned lower than some of the
> stacks (when those stacks are on the top screen), the stacks will report as
> being below their visual position (when manually moved), or they just jump
> down to the bottom screen to be under stack "revMenubar" when I try to
> position them on the top screen. I'm using LC 9.6.1.

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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

2021-05-06 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Gabe, before delving deeply into your message, are you saying that my script 
does not work for you?

Roger

> On May 6, 2021, at 9:56 AM, Gabe J via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Also, the point of my previous email is that stack "revMenubar" seems to
> move around sometimes when you change multi-monitor configurations on Mac,
> which sets up the conditions for this issue.
> 
> Gabe
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 11:52 AM Gabe J  wrote:
> 
>> I've discovered that LiveCode (at least LC 9.6.1) seems to force the
>> reported top of a manually-moved stack to be the bottom of stack
>> "revMenubar" + 20, if the stack is overlapping revMenubar (even if
>> revMenubar is not visible), even if the visual top of the stack is higher
>> than that. All mouse clicks will be vertically off by whatever offset there
>> is between the bottom of stack "revMenubar" + 20 and the visual top of the
>> overlapping, manually-moved stack.
>> 
>> For example, if you were to run this:
>> 
>>set the bottom of stack "revMenubar" to 200
>> 
>> And then move a stack so that it overlaps revMenubar (manually moving the
>> stack seems to possibly be a necessary step), if you run "put the top of
>> ..." for that overlapping stack, it will be 220, even if it is visually
>> above 220, and mouse clicks in the stack will also be vertically off.
>> 
>> If I set the position of stack "revMenubar" so that its bottom is above
>> the highest working screenRect's top + 20 (or whatever the height of the
>> window's title bars are?), this issue can be avoided. I have made a handler
>> which does this when the screenRects change.
>> 
>> I ran into another potential bug where the bottom of a stack couldn't be
>> positioned in a certain area without it also reporting the top/mouseclicks
>> incorrectly on a second screen above my laptop's screen, but I haven't
>> figured out why that is, yet.
>> 
>> Gabe
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 9:58 AM Roger Guay via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Fred et al,
>>> 
>>> I use the following script to switch the monitor I wish to use for the
>>> revmenubar and revTools and then position pallets like my own rTools and
>>> tmAlign3. It is working quite nicely for me with my external monitor
>>> positioned above my MBP and “Displays have separate spaces” unchecked.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp
>>> 
>>> put the screenrects into tsr
>>> 
>>>if the number of lines of tsr = 2 then
>>> 
>>>if the left of stack revmenubar = item 1 of tsr then
>>> 
>>>set the left of stack revmenubar to item 1 of
>>> line 2 of tsr
>>> 
>>>set the top of stack revmenubar to item 2 of line
>>> 2 of tsr + 25
>>> 
>>>else
>>> 
>>>set the left of stack revmenubar to item 1 of tsr
>>> 
>>>set the top of stack revmenubar to item 2 of tsr
>>> + 25
>>> 
>>>end if
>>> 
>>>end if
>>> 
>>>positionPalletes
>>> 
>>>pass mouseUp
>>> 
>>> end mouseUp
>>> 
>>> 
>>> on positionPalletes
>>> 
>>>set the top of stack revtools to the bottom of stack revMenuBar +
>>> 20
>>> 
>>>set the left of stack revTools to the left of stack revmenubar
>>> 
>>>set the top of stack rtools to the bottom of stack revMenuBar + 20
>>> 
>>>set the left of stack rTools to the right of stack revtools
>>> 
>>>set the left of stack tmAlign3 to the right of stack revMenubar
>>> 
>>>set the top of stack tmAlign3 to the top of stack revMenubar
>>> 
>>> end positionPalletes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> HTH,
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On May 6, 2021, at 1:41 AM, Fred Moyer via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 4, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Fred Moyer  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyone having problems with multiple monitors and LC? I’m running
>>> 9.6.1 - Mac. I have a feeling LC is confused because I like to connect and
>>> disconne

Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

2021-05-06 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Hi Fred et al,

I use the following script to switch the monitor I wish to use for the 
revmenubar and revTools and then position pallets like my own rTools and 
tmAlign3. It is working quite nicely for me with my external monitor positioned 
above my MBP and “Displays have separate spaces” unchecked.


on mouseUp

put the screenrects into tsr

if the number of lines of tsr = 2 then

if the left of stack revmenubar = item 1 of tsr then

set the left of stack revmenubar to item 1 of line 2 of 
tsr

set the top of stack revmenubar to item 2 of line 2 of 
tsr + 25

else

set the left of stack revmenubar to item 1 of tsr

set the top of stack revmenubar to item 2 of tsr + 25

end if

end if

positionPalletes

pass mouseUp

end mouseUp


on positionPalletes

set the top of stack revtools to the bottom of stack revMenuBar + 20

set the left of stack revTools to the left of stack revmenubar

set the top of stack rtools to the bottom of stack revMenuBar + 20

set the left of stack rTools to the right of stack revtools

set the left of stack tmAlign3 to the right of stack revMenubar

set the top of stack tmAlign3 to the top of stack revMenubar

end positionPalletes



HTH,
Roger



> On May 6, 2021, at 1:41 AM, Fred Moyer via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 4, 2021, at 5:32 PM, Fred Moyer  wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone having problems with multiple monitors and LC? I’m running 9.6.1 - 
>> Mac. I have a feeling LC is confused because I like to connect and 
>> disconnect monitors from my MacBook Pro. (Even the MacOS sometimes gets 
>> confused.) But now LC is doing crazy things — even when no external monitors 
>> are connected. I’ll move the mouse to the top of a stack window, and ask for 
>> the Mouseloc and it will return something like "100,-60”. If I click a 
>> button in the middle of the stack, the click will register in an object the 
>> 60 pixels above that. It’s not always 60 — the wrongness changed as I move 
>> the stack around. Other times it works fine. I can’t find a pattern to set 
>> it off.
>> 
>> Any suggestions?
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Fred
>> 
>> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for the interesting replies. I learned a lot 
> (“desktopChanged", "the working screenrects,” difference between "the 
> screenrect" and "the screenrects," etc.) I have a hunch, though, my problem 
> may relate to stack RevMenubar and some accommodation the IDE makes for “the 
> mouseV” depending on whether RevMenubar is showing or whether you have your 
> own menubar or whether that screen has a menubar in it  —  I dunno. I’ve 
> never understood how this works. I notice sometimes, though, when I turn on 
> Toolbar Text, it shows up about 100 or 200 pixels down.
> 
> Fred
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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

2021-05-05 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I hear ya, but with this list we Illegitimi non carborundum!

Roger

> On May 5, 2021, at 4:36 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I will have to deal with reprogramming the wetware and the muscle memory 
> which at my age may be a much more difficult process. The ole wetware ain’t 
> as moist and flexible as it once was ;-)

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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

2021-05-04 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Use the plural of Screenrect … Screenrects. This returns a Screenrect for each 
monitor connected. 

Roger


> On May 4, 2021, at 5:20 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Paul Dupuis wrote:
> 
> > With multiple monitor, zero vertical is the top of the top most
> > monitor  - regardless of whether it is the primary monitor or not.
> 
> If the screenRect is no longer based on the main monitor, what is the 
> screenloc?
> 
> In a multi-monitor setup, with metrics like that how can one be expected to 
> center a window?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Problems with Multiple Monitors

2021-05-04 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Hi Martin,

I have the same setup . . . second monitor on top of my MBP. I solved the 
problem by unchecking “Displays have separate Spaces” in the Mission Control 
System Preferences.


Roger

> On May 4, 2021, at 3:17 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I have found that when I arrange monitors on my MacBook Pro I can’t position 
> the second monitor above the main monitor(the one with the menu bar).  If I 
> do odd things happen.  Just so happens I that is the space that I have for a 
> second monitor  is on a stand above the screen of my MacBook Pro.  So I had 
> to position my second monitor to the left of my main monitor.  I am then able 
> to work on LiveCode in either monitor.  The only thing I had to do was 
> re-train my brain that moving my mouse left was actually moving it up to my 
> second monitor. Now it is second nature.
> 
> It is a really odd workaround and if the bug ever got fixed and I did in fact 
> go back to to having the monitor arrangement with the second monitor above 
> the main monitor I would probably develop carpal tunnel syndrome or maybe 
> tennis elbow or some other musculoskeletal disorder  from my mouse hand  
> skidding off the mouse pad and hitting the laptop every time I want to go to 
> the second monitor sitting above my laptop.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
>> On May 4, 2021, at 5:46 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 5/4/2021 5:32 PM, Fred Moyer via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Anyone having problems with multiple monitors and LC? I’m running 9.6.1 - 
>>> Mac. I have a feeling LC is confused because I like to connect and 
>>> disconnect monitors from my MacBook Pro. (Even the MacOS sometimes gets 
>>> confused.) But now LC is doing crazy things — even when no external 
>>> monitors are connected. I’ll move the mouse to the top of a stack window, 
>>> and ask for the Mouseloc and it will return something like "100,-60”. If I 
>>> click a button in the middle of the stack, the click will register in an 
>>> object the 60 pixels above that. It’s not always 60 — the wrongness changed 
>>> as I move the stack around. Other times it works fine. I can’t find a 
>>> pattern to set it off.
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions?
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Fred
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> With multiple monitor, zero vertical is the top of the top most monitor - 
>> regardless of whether it is the primary monitor or not. The on 
>> desktopChanged message may also be helpful as it is sent when the 
>> displays/monitors change
>> 
>> 
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Re: Lock/Unlock Screen of another stack

2021-04-04 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Hi Klaus,

> On Apr 4, 2021, at 4:50 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
>> Am 05.04.2021 um 00:56 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I have a button on one stack that hides and shows controls of another stack. 
>> Is it possible to add Lock screen for effect and Unlock screen with effect 
>> in that button? Can’t seem to make it work….
> 
> a shot in the dark, but does setting the defaultstack first help?
> But maybe you already tried that.

I did try that but to no avail. However, I solved my problem by putting the 
guts of the script inside a handler in the stack I want to control. I then just 
call that handler from the stack that is controlling. Works great . . . 
probably a better way to go anyway.

Thanks for your help

Roger
> 
>> Thx,
>> 
>> Roger 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
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Lock/Unlock Screen of another stack

2021-04-04 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Hi all,

I have a button on one stack that hides and shows controls of another stack. Is 
it possible to add Lock screen for effect and Unlock screen with effect in that 
button? Can’t seem to make it work….

Thx,

Roger 
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Re: autohilite FUBAR?

2021-04-02 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Not so for me on Mac OS Big Sur and LC 9.6

Roger

> On Apr 2, 2021, at 2:52 PM, chipsm themartinz.com via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I tested this and it is true. As you move the Mouse across the button (in the 
> mouse-Down) it does flash.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Clarence Martin
> Email: chi...@themartinz.com
> Phone: 626 6965561
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of 
> Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2021 2:26 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Cc: Richard Gaskin 
> Subject: autohilite FUBAR?
> 
> I recently noticed that if you hold the mouse down on a button and move it, 
> the button doesn't stay highlighted, but instead the highlight  flashes.
> 
> Anyone else seeing this?  Anyone have a clue as to when it first went south?
> 
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-31 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
My apologies to everyone! The LC Lesson that Heather referred us to does indeed 
work in Big Sur as well. My mistake was thinking that the “Open Anyway” in the 
System Prefs never appears in Big Sur. But it certainly does . . . after 
clicking “OK” on the first dialog box. 

Thanks to Bob Earp for pointing that out to me.

Roger



> On Mar 31, 2021, at 8:49 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Many thanks Heather and Scott for these lessons. Unfortunately they don’t 
> apply to OS Big Sur. In fact, it was because I initially thought that apple 
> closed this door to opening standalones (SA) in Big Sur that I raised the 
> alarm here.

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-31 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Here is the Forums entry:
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=19=35653 
> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=19=35653>
Thanks,

Roger

> On Mar 31, 2021, at 8:49 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Many thanks Heather and Scott for these lessons. Unfortunately they don’t 
> apply to OS Big Sur. In fact, it was because I initially thought that apple 
> closed this door to opening standalones (SA) in Big Sur that I raised the 
> alarm here.
> 
> Turns out the process in Big Sur is even easier, involving just a few 
> “opening” clicks to actually open a SA which I discovered with the help of 
> Scott and others here. The easiest way to describe it is to Right or Control 
> click on the unzipped SA twice. The second time will add an “Open” button to 
> the dialog box that will indeed open it.
> 
> There may be some variations of this that might work as well, but the second 
> mouseClick on the SA must be a Right or Control click that brings up the 
> context menu.
> 
> I will try to get a short lesson with screen captures to the Forum soon.
> 
> 
> HTH and thanks to everyone who participated in this thread.
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
>> On Mar 31, 2021, at 3:59 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I thought at this point, I could make a useful contribution to this thread:
>> 
>> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac
>>  
>> <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac>
>> 
>> My thanks to Scott for the handy test app, I hope you do not mind me using 
>> it to create this lesson...
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 30 Mar 2021, at 00:53, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an 
>>> unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in 
>>> response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this 
>>> iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be 
>>> important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the “No Entry” sign on this 
>>>>> machine.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roger
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this 
>>>> sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app 
>>>> that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look 
>>>> at it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows.
>>>> 
>>>> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a 
>>>> Zoom call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) 
>>>> while you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm 
>>>> unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK 
>>>> time), or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice).
>>>> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time.
>>>> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help.
>>>> 
>>>> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what 
>>>> they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to 
>>>> a later MacOS. :-)
>>>> 
>>>> Alex.
>>>> 
>>>> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-31 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Many thanks Heather and Scott for these lessons. Unfortunately they don’t apply 
to OS Big Sur. In fact, it was because I initially thought that apple closed 
this door to opening standalones (SA) in Big Sur that I raised the alarm here.

Turns out the process in Big Sur is even easier, involving just a few “opening” 
clicks to actually open a SA which I discovered with the help of Scott and 
others here. The easiest way to describe it is to Right or Control click on the 
unzipped SA twice. The second time will add an “Open” button to the dialog box 
that will indeed open it.

There may be some variations of this that might work as well, but the second 
mouseClick on the SA must be a Right or Control click that brings up the 
context menu.

I will try to get a short lesson with screen captures to the Forum soon.


HTH and thanks to everyone who participated in this thread.

Roger


> On Mar 31, 2021, at 3:59 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I thought at this point, I could make a useful contribution to this thread:
> 
> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac
>  
> <https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac>
> 
> My thanks to Scott for the handy test app, I hope you do not mind me using it 
> to create this lesson...
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 30 Mar 2021, at 00:53, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an 
>> unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in 
>> response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this 
>> iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be 
>> important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the “No Entry” sign on this 
>>>> machine.
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this 
>>> sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app 
>>> that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at 
>>> it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows.
>>> 
>>> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom 
>>> call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while 
>>> you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm 
>>> unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), 
>>> or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice).
>>> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time.
>>> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help.
>>> 
>>> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what 
>>> they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a 
>>> later MacOS. :-)
>>> 
>>> Alex.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Hi James,

I downloaded MKVtoolsNix and it opens on the second right-click.

As for my wife’s admin privileges, I will have to check later

Thanks very much

Roger


> On Mar 29, 2021, at 4:43 PM, james--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
> Below is a link to the download page for MkvToolnix, an app for 
> packaging/modifying mkv files. It is not notarised and requires the steps we 
> have been suggesting to open (after copying it to your local machine from the 
> distribution disk image.)
> 
> https://www.fosshub.com/MKVToolNix.html
> 
> Also, the message you say you get on your wife’s machine is unfamiliar to me 
> and so I was wondering if her account is an admin privileged account. I 
> assume most of us on the list run admin accounts (if on a Mac) as we assume 
> we are savvy enough not to get caught out by malicious apps. If that is the 
> case, does trying to open your stack when logged in via an admin privileged 
> account bring up a different error dlog?
> 
> James
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Well, the thought plickins. I just also tried to open another standalone from 
Bob Earp and it failed to open. I am back to my usual state of befuddlement!

Roger


> On Mar 29, 2021, at 6:02 PM, Dev via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> No Roger, the folder has nothing to do with it. The two right click process 
> will work wherever you unzip the new arrival. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an 
>> unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in 
>> response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this 
>> iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be 
>> important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the “No Entry” sign on this 
>>>> machine.
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this 
>>> sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app 
>>> that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at 
>>> it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows.
>>> 
>>> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom 
>>> call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while 
>>> you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm 
>>> unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), 
>>> or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice).
>>> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time.
>>> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help.
>>> 
>>> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what 
>>> they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a 
>>> later MacOS. :-)
>>> 
>>> Alex.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an 
unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in 
response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this 
iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be important 
to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho

Roger

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the “No Entry” sign on this 
>> machine.
>> 
>> Roger
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this 
> sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app that 
> hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at it in 
> more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows.
> 
> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom 
> call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while you 
> try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm unavailable for 
> the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), or tomorrow 
> almost any time, given some notice).
> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time.
> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help.
> 
> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what 
> they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a 
> later MacOS. :-)
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Great Scott! (How often do you hear that?)

This works on second attempt but not the first. I verified this by trashing the 
first unzipped app and unzipping a second as you suggest. Here are the details:

On first right-click - Open, I got “"Testeroni” can’t be opened because Apple 
cannot check it for malicious software”. “This software needs to be updated. 
Contact the developer for more information.” Safari downloaded this file today 
at 3:54 PM from”& (you.com ) with 2 buttons: "Show in Finder" 
and “OK"

On second attempt, I got the same message with 3 buttons: “Open", "Show in 
Finder" and “Cancel” And “Open” works

Alleluia and Go figure!!

Thanks, Scott!

Roger

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:33 PM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Roger,
> 
> I made a standalone from an empty stack (and one button that does nothing.)  
> It is 64 bit Mac. It is zipped. It isn’t in a DMG or any sort of installer. 
> It is NOT code signed. I have been using this app to test how opening 
> non-signed Mac Apps work. After (finally) opening the app I can throw it away 
> and double click the zipped original to get another app that hasn’t been 
> approved  if I want to try the process again.
> 
> You can find this app here:
> 
> http://traditionaltaekwondo.org/test/Testeroni.app.zip
> 
> 
> --
> Scott Morrow
> 
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
> booth1-360-734-4701
> mobile   360-920-0715
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the “No Entry” sign on this 
machine.

Roger

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 29/03/2021 21:23, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have to admit I haven’t had a lot of time to experiment yet on my wife’s 
>> computer as I've been busy here trying to communicate my problem. Also, my 
>> wife’s computer is busy helping her work from home, not to mention, her 
>> style is to have numerous windows open all the time. Drives me nuts!
>> 
>> I wish I could think of an unapproved Mac app I could download to my own 
>> machine to play with.
> 
> https://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/downloads/StackRunner.htm 
> <https://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/downloads/StackRunner.htm> and 
> download something suitable.
> 
> This  is the old (and I think no longer functioning) stackRunner - but 
> although it doesn't appear to work properly (it is *very* old) it did come up 
> and ask me to approve it.

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I have to admit I haven’t had a lot of time to experiment yet on my wife’s 
computer as I've been busy here trying to communicate my problem. Also, my 
wife’s computer is busy helping her work from home, not to mention, her style 
is to have numerous windows open all the time. Drives me nuts!

I wish I could think of an unapproved Mac app I could download to my own 
machine to play with.

:-)

Roger



> On Mar 29, 2021, at 1:00 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Roger,
> 
> this is frustrating, isn't it !!
> 
> If I were you, I'd send an email to the list saying (something along the 
> lines of )
> 
>> I want to get to the bottom of this. I'm going to host a Zoom call on my 
>> wife's Mac at  where I will share my screen so 
>> you can all see what I'm doing, and I'll then accept suggestions of what to 
>> do/try.  Here's the key/invite ...
>> All welcome !!
>> 
> I'll do my best to attend - but since I don't own a Mac that can run anything 
> later than 10.13 I suspect I'll be a spectator, not a contributor.
> 
> Alex.

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I’m sure you’re right about this. And, If this be the case, I would ask for the 
work-around approach . . . a LiveCodeLight App downloadable from RunRev (or 
other approved source) that runs stacks but hides or strips the IDE.


Roger

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 12:54 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think your assumption that you will be able - even via some horribly 
> convoluted series of steps - to run unsigned and unnotarized apps on FUTURE 
> versions of macOS is probably in error. From Apple's actions and statements, 
> they very much are moving to a similar sandboxed, highly vetted, approved by 
> Apple model for macOS as exists for iOS apps.

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Craig.

You and I are very much in the same boat as far as how we use LiveCode.

The problem is not constructing the standalones. LiveCode is superb in this 
regard. The problem is distributing Apple unapproved standalones. It seems I 
can no longer do that anymore as I used to. The problem is that opening an 
unapproved standalone on an other computer other than one’s own is difficult if 
not impossible for OS 11.2. Other’s in this thread have offered that it still 
can be done albeit with a more convoluted process, and I am still trying to 
figure this out. e.g if I send a standalone to my wife (called StackOmatic) to 
share, we inevitably end up with the  "You do not have permission to open the 
application “StackOmatic”. “Contact your computer or network administrator for 
assistance” with a simple “OK” button. I can’t seem to replicate the process 
that others have suggested to get to the “Open Anyway” button.

Roger

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> For about eight users in my business I distribute standalones for desktop 
> only, both Mac and Windows versions. These are developed on a Mac. Simple to 
> update and make, simple to give away, simple to use.
> 
> That is the aspect of this thread that I do not understand, perhaps 
> misreading that it is somehow problematic to do what I do without issue. I am 
> certain I simply have this wrong.
> 
> I do all this in the Community version. I do not sell apps at all, though I 
> own an Indy license just as a way to help LC a little. So I wonder if I am a 
> scofflaw. If everyone was on a Mac, I might have simply distributed updated 
> stacks, and have LC resident on all the other machines. But of course, the 
> fact that most use Windows makes that impossible, and I will not use a 
> Windows machine unless I have to. Anyway, leaving the IDE open is risky.

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Beautifully said, Rick! Especially your point about it being a PITA.

Thanks!


> On Mar 29, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Perhaps improving standalone building should be put at
> the top of the priority of things to improve for LiveCode.
> 
> I think people are very frustrated that they are having
> great difficulties in building a standalone. A process that
> used to be relatively simple is now way too complex.
> 
> Many LC users want to be able to create their application,
> and deploy it quickly to their own computers, or to give
> away to their family members.  They are not interested
> in inserting Apple or other corporations into their personal
> programming loop, and a lot of us feel the same way.
> 
> No one wants to deal with having to create bundle ids
> or other corporate nonsense.  (Option for a unique random
> bundle id generator here?)
> 
> I believe users want LC to step up it’s game in dealing
> with these issues so the deployment experience is an
> enjoyable one, and not a PITA.
> 
> Successfully addressing this problem helps everyone!
> 
> Just my 2 cents for the day.  ;-)
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
>> 
>> In terms of the general thrust behind this thread - I completely agree that 
>> standalone building has become tortuous over the last few years as all 
>> platforms add more and more hoops you have to jump through. However, this is 
>> probably best done by improving the standalone building process (i.e. making 
>> it as easy as possible) rather than anything else.
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> 
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Re: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones)

2021-03-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
YES . . . What he said!

> On Mar 29, 2021, at 8:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> TL/DR:
> 
> We don't need a generic player.
> 
> What we need is an updated Standalone Builder, to provide more complete 
> tooling and better guidance for building a modern standalone.
> 
> 
> 
> - more complete version 
> 
> 
> Background
> --
> 
> This thread, and many others like it, didn't start with a desire for a 
> player.  That was merely a response to the challenges of building standalones.
> 
> Building standalones is the point of LiveCode, the culmination of everything 
> in LC's user experience.
> 
> And it's become a pain point for most, early-prohibitive for some.
> 
> OS changes are of course not LC's fault.  But they are LC's opportunity, if 
> the company wants to maintain its place as the easiest solution for making 
> apps.
> 
> 
> 
> The Last Great Deployment Change
> 
> 
> Back in the early days, the IDE's Standalone Builder didn't provide any 
> support for document associations, creator codes, or other essentials we now 
> take for granted.  It was expected we'd open some dev tool from Apple 
> (ResEdit) to set those up.
> 
> LC Ltd recognized those steps were cumbersome, and often error-prone where 
> they were being done at all.
> 
> So they took the time to completely redesign the Standalone Builder to 
> include support for nearly every detail apps need for solid deployment.
> 
> 
> 
> The Next Great Deployment Change
> 
> 
> Many if not most deployment tooling required by OSes are command-line apps, 
> lending themselves well to being called from another program, such as LC's 
> Standalone Builder.
> 
> Automate everything possible.
> 
> And where a step can't be automated, guidance and be provided, such as a 
> direct link right in the SB's UI to the necessary steps for completing the 
> process, laid out with sufficient clarity and detail to allow the user to 
> complete the build with confidence.
> 
> If a standalone building step is essential, it needs to be handled in the 
> Standalone Builder.
> 
> Use direct automation where possible, or a direct link in the UI to 
> step-by-step instructions needed to complete the task.
> 
> 
> 
> The Business Case
> -
> As we've seen here and many other threads like it from time to time, as long 
> as building a standalone in LC is characterized by confusion and dread, 
> people will seek alternatives.
> 
> Any alternative either compromises LC's revenue model (based as it is around 
> standalone licensing), or eliminates it (if LC is just as hard to use as 
> anything else, why not use anything else?).
> 
> No option provides as much return on investment as focusing on updating the 
> Standalone Builder to be as simple and graceful as it can possibly be.
> 
> LC has a strong advantage with its language, made a nearly unbeatable with 
> its integrated GUI object model.
> 
> Bring deployment up to par with the rest of the experience, and LC has a 
> chance for a good life ahead, slowing attrition rates while accelerating 
> growth.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Craig,

I apologize for the confusion. I tended to shift focus throughout this thread.

I too have, in the past, made and distributed standalones with great ease. But 
recently Apple and perhaps others have made it very difficult to do this as 
they are now requiring(?) that one be an Apple developer with an increasingly 
complex process for certifying apps for distribution.

In this thread, others have claimed that one can still do this (build 
distributable standalones w/o being an Apple developer etc.) with a slightly 
more convoluted process which I have not yet been able to replicate on Mac OS 
11.2. I’m still working on it. In any case it is not as easy as it use to be 
and IMO, this door may be closing.

All I want is a simple reliable, repeatable easy to use method/process for 
sharing stacks or Standalones with friends, family and colleagues without 
having to become an Apple developer. 

So Craig, I would appreciate knowing more about your process.


HTH,

Roger

> I make and update standalones regularly on my Mac, and distribute them to 
> many Windows and Mac desktop users in my company. All for “personal’ use.
> 

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-28 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
John et al,

To recap: 

My ultimate goal is to get support for RunRev to provide a LiveCodeLight 
download that opens stacks but hides or strips the IDE. I can’t believe this 
would be difficult in any way.

In the meantime, I am trying to recreate the old Standalone app method (See 
Jacquelines’ post in this thread) that opens stacks. 2 or more OSs ago this was 
extremely easy to do, but because of the increasing complexity of Apple 
requirements (and Windows?) it is now quite difficult and I have yet to succeed 
at it. Even if it is still possible, I shudder to think what they will do next 
to further complicate our efforts to simple collaborate and share with family 
and friends.

Thanks to all who are taking an interest.

Roger



> On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:14 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was thinking one of the reasons people were saying not to provide a
> scaled down version of the development system to do it was because
> they were afraid it would interfere with the license. But since you can
> do it according to some of you is proof you are allowed to automate
> the process and that should not interfere with the user license.
> 
> JB
> 
>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:04 PM, Dev via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If it works, the upside is that anyone can do it themselves and coach their 
>> family into doing the two step process once on the first time install.
>> 
>> If it doesn’t work, we need to get a real developer to make a real app that 
>> jumps through Apple’s hoops. And then the developer has to keep it updated 
>> every time Apple makes a change. 
>> 
>> I agree this whole thing is a bother, but as other posts have pointed out, 
>> “This is not the good old days and security is not going away” so this whole 
>> discussion is trying to find the narrowest point to cross. If the amateurs 
>> can do it themselves with a two step magic incantation, then this puts the 
>> ball back in their court and allows them into the game with out going 
>> through the Apple doorway.
>> 
>> Kelly
>> 
>>> On 28 Mar, 2021, at 9:54 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I may have got lost on this subject but if his goal was to make it
>>> easy for people to open his app by doing something like using a
>>> scaled down version of the development system then this one
>>> step of doing it twice is a valid reason for using what he wanted
>>> because people do not want to be bothered with things like that.
>>> 
>>> JB
>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 8:41 PM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I may have described it incorrectly. After re-testing here on OS 11.2.3  I 
>>>> found that it required two tries. Trying to open it the first time meets 
>>>> with failure. But Right clicking and choosing “Open” the second time gives 
>>>> a second dialog that will allow it to open.
>>>> 
>>>> —
>>>> Scott
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I’m trying to share with my wife on 
>>>>> her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look 
>>>>> Attachment - Save Attachment…. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy 
>>>>> - Speech
>>>>> 
>>>>> Then, clicking on the “Open Attachment” menu item results in the same 
>>>>> response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do 
>>>>> not have permission to open the application “StackOmatic”. “Contact your 
>>>>> computer or network administrator for assistance” with a simple “OK” 
>>>>> button. Dead end as before!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security 
>>>>> and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time 
>>>>> opening, I found nothing of the sort. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> So at this point, I think Kelly’s idea of someone with Apple credentials 
>>>>> building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term 
>>>>> solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a 
>>>>> reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to 
>>>>> share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops 
>>>>> that Apple 

Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-28 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
James, Kelly and Brian,

Thanks for sticking with me on this. 

Perhaps, to smooth out this process, I should look for an uncertified app to 
download to my own machine, instead of working off of her machine. Have you any 
suggestions for that?

Answers to some of your question:
I emailed a standalone app  to my wife called StackOmatic that opens stacks 
(works on my machine)
I tried double and right clicking from the email then... 
I saved it to her Desktop and also to her Downloads where I tired both double 
clicking and right clicking again 
In every case, I end up with the dreaded "You do not have permission to open 
the application “StackOmatic”. “Contact your computer or network administrator 
for assistance” with a simple “OK” button.

HTH,

Roger 

> On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:20 PM, james--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her 
>> iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment 
>> - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech
> 
> This list of menu options looks like those that appear if you are 
> right-clicking on an attachment in Mail.
> 
> The right-click menu being referred to here is only available when you are in 
> the Finder.
> So the app you sent to your wife’s machine (apparently by Mail) needs to be 
> downloaded first. Then, in the Finder, locate the downloaded file and 
> right-click on it.
> 
> The menu that appears will have as the first two options “Open” and “Show 
> Package Contents”. 
> If the second option offered is not “Show Package Options” but “Open With” 
> then you have not transferred an app but a document (perhaps the LC stack?)
> 
> Try this with other apps and documents on your wife’s mac to confirm the two 
> types of option menus that come up.
> 
> Choosing “Open” for an application Finder context menu will, for unnotorized 
> apps, will then bring up the dlog asking if you really do want to open this 
> app. This only needs to be done the first time the app is opened.
> 
> James
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-28 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I feel bad that you guys are sticking with me to no avail. Saving it first to 
Downloads or Desktop does not work.

Sorry to be such a bother,

Roger

> On Mar 28, 2021, at 4:26 PM, Dev via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Agreed. Save to the desktop and then try the right click Open command. 
> 
> Kelly
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I think the “attachment” is part of the issue.  Save to downloads first?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I’m trying to share with my wife on 
>>> her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look 
>>> Attachment - Save Attachment…. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - 
>>> Speech
>>> 
>>> Then, clicking on the “Open Attachment” menu item results in the same 
>>> response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not 
>>> have permission to open the application “StackOmatic”. “Contact your 
>>> computer or network administrator for assistance” with a simple “OK” 
>>> button. Dead end as before!
>>> 
>>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security 
>>> and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time 
>>> opening, I found nothing of the sort.
>>> 
>>> So at this point, I think Kelly’s idea of someone with Apple credentials 
>>> building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term 
>>> solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a 
>>> reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share 
>>> stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that 
>>> Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH….
>>> 
>>> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks 
>>> without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, 
>>> family and colleagues.
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or 
>>>> right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the 
>>>> app.
>>>> —
>>>> Scott 
>>> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-28 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I’m trying to share with my wife on her 
iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - 
Save Attachment…. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech

Then, clicking on the “Open Attachment” menu item results in the same response 
I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have 
permission to open the application “StackOmatic”. “Contact your computer or 
network administrator for assistance” with a simple “OK” button. Dead end as 
before!

Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and 
Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, 
I found nothing of the sort. 

So at this point, I think Kelly’s idea of someone with Apple credentials 
building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term 
solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a 
reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share 
stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple 
(and Windows?) place before us. OTH….

Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without 
the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and 
colleagues.

Roger



> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or 
> right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app.
> —
> Scott 

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-27 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode

Here is a report on the back door approach to opening a standalone on MAC OS 
11.2:

I built a stack precisely as Jacqueline specified and made a Mac standalone of 
it. I checked to make sure it worked on my own computer. I then sent the 
standalone to my wife’s computer – another Mac running the same OS 11.2. 
Double-clicking the standalone on her computer, resulted is a simple screen 
with this message: You do not have permission to open the application 
“StackOmatic”. “Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance” 
with a single “OK” button.

 I then checked System Preferences - Security & Privacy - General Tab. There 
was no “Open Anyway” button.

Dead in the water! 

I humbly submit that we need a LiveCodeLight app from a certified developer 
that runs stacks without the IDE

Roge



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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-27 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thanks, Scott. I will be testing all this in the next day or so and will report.

Roger


> On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:56 PM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Roger,
> Yes, I believe it is on an individual app basis that occurs at the time the 
> app is being first opened.
> —
> Scott
> 
>> On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:15 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Jacque,
>> 
>> You always come thru with such great clarity and thoroughness. I remember 
>> going thru this process a few years ago, but I thought this back door 
>> approach was closed by Apple within the last couple of OS releases. Indeed, 
>> looking at my Security tab of System Preferences in OS 11.2, I do 
>> not see the “Open Anyway” button as illustrated in your link for Mac OS. Is 
>> it possible this button only appears if the OS senses that user is trying to 
>> open an unauthorized app?
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:22 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Roger Guay wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac,
>>>> Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly.
>>> 
>>> On desktop you still can, sort of, if you don't mind instructing your users 
>>> how to get around the security blocks that both Windows and Mac OS have 
>>> adopted. If your users are just family and friends, this is viable. Someone 
>>> more familiar with Linux can say whether this method works there.
>>> 
>>> Here is a skeletal outline off the top of my head (so I may have missed 
>>> something,) but it should give you the idea. A "runner" app is easy to 
>>> make, basically a stack with one card and a single button. The button 
>>> script:
>>> 
>>> on mouseup
>>> answer file "Choose a stack to open:"
>>> if it is empty then exit to top
>>> go stack it
>>> end mouseup
>>> 
>>> Add an openStack handler on the card so that resources can be shared:
>>> 
>>> on openStack
>>> start using this stack
>>> end openStack
>>> 
>>> 
>>> That's the whole stack. Now set up standalone settings for the desired 
>>> build platform. Include all extensions, libraries, widgets, etc. that your 
>>> stacks need, or you think they might need in the future. Your app will be 
>>> limited to the inclusions your license permits.
>>> 
>>> Build the app. Send it to friends along with your stacks.
>>> 
>>> Now the part where you do some explaining. Since the app isn't notarized by 
>>> Apple or authorized by Microsoft, explain to them how to bypass the 
>>> blockage and get the app to open. They only need to do this once on first 
>>> launch. There are lots of hits if you search for "how to open unnotarized 
>>> app on big sur" or "open unauthorized app on windows."
>>> 
>>> Here's one for Mac OS: 
>>> <https://eclecticlight.co/2020/11/19/getting-unnotarized-apps-out-of-quarantine/>
>>> 
>>> And one for Windows: 
>>> <https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/unverified-app-change-your-app-recommendation/1b4dd654-c5a0-4833-866c-a354d8c24b69>
>>> 
>>> This won't work for mobile apps, though with some adjustments you can build 
>>> a runner app for Android if you're willing to distribute from the internet.
>>> 
>>> Also note: The stacks you distribute cannot violate the LC license 
>>> agreement. They can't reproduce IDE features or allow users to do things 
>>> that only a licensed user can do. Please don't violate the license 
>>> agreement; we all want LC to prosper.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-27 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thank you, Richard for these responses . . . some of which I will have to 
consider for a while to better understand. But I still think this idea has 
merit, is very easy to do and maintain and makes Livecode even more attractive 
to prospective customers, especially those who require easy collaboration with 
colleagues

And BTW, I don’t care who builds it, but it seems a natural for RunRev.

Roger

> On Mar 27, 2021, at 11:29 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Roger Guay wrote:
> 
> > On Mar 26, 2021, at 5:35 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >
> >> What are you looking for?  When were these "good ol days"
> >> in which one could run stack files without an engine, and
> >> how did that work?
> >
> > In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac,
> > Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to
> > jump thru intolerable hoops (at least for the Mac) to give
> > someone my standalone. if someone (hint. . .hint) could build
> > a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even free w advertising
> > that would run LC standalones, everything would be right in the
> > world again!
> >
> > I think my martini is showing...
> 
> After I read that I poured myself two fingers of whiskey and sat back 
> enjoying the memories you conjured. Good thoughts. Thanks.
> 
> In those days we made software for single users to run on a single computer 
> running one brand of OS.
> 
> The web had barely been invented, the Internet not yet privatized for general 
> use, and "cloud" was still called "mainframe".
> 
> It was a much simpler time. I miss those days myself.
> 
> 
> The hoops we now jump through to deliver apps are OS vendors responding to an 
> evolving need to establish trust in hostile connected environments.
> 
> As software opportunities have expanded, they've for everyone, good and bad 
> actors alike.
> 
> My response to Alex was apparently too long to be read, but I touched on this 
> in third block, re "security", re implications for a player as well:
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-March/263948.html
> 
> 
> 
> > This conversation has given me some focus and clarification of the
> > basic idea. Here is what I would love to see: A LiveCodeLight
> > downloadable from the mother ship.
> 
> Why specifically from the mother ship?
> 
> Or to put it in business terms, which features/bug fixes would you be willing 
> to see dropped so the company could commit to making and maintaining yet 
> another project?
> 
> In addition to the opportunity cost to the company, there's also the segment 
> who would use it as an alternative to maintaining a current license, 
> resulting in at least some degree of revenue cannibalization.
> 
> And while the upside is non-zero, it's limited to a slender subset of 
> promotional value opportunities which could more easily be attained with 
> nearly any marketing strategy at lower cost, and in ways that more directly 
> feed their funnel.
> 
> Moreover, a player produces no direct revenue, but maintenance and support 
> obligations create immediate (if modest) direct payroll impact.
> 
> Free software isn't free to make and maintain.
> 
> 
> > LiveCodeLight would be a stripped down version of the community
> > edition that would not open the IDE, but would open and run stacks.
> >
> > Thanks, Brian for the idea.
> >
> > Is that a cool idea or what?
> 
> Also addressed in my earlier post (some day I'll learn to write less here).
> 
> The close of that post suggested this might make a good community project, 
> and described how simple it could be if anyone here really wanted something 
> that rudimentary.
> 
> But (for the reasons also described in that post) it would have to be with 
> Community, which raises two questions not yet answered in any subsequent 
> reply:
> 
> How many who would use a generic player would be willing to relicense their 
> works under GPL, as would be required if distributed via the GPL-governed 
> Community Edition.
> 
> And with Community's role in LC's business as a sort of freemium offer, how 
> many projects might one want to distribute with a player which use absolutely 
> none of any features found only in the proprietary editions, Indy and 
> Business?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-27 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Jacque,

You always come thru with such great clarity and thoroughness. I remember going 
thru this process a few years ago, but I thought this back door approach was 
closed by Apple within the last couple of OS releases. Indeed, looking at my 
Security tab of System Preferences in OS 11.2, I do not see the “Open 
Anyway” button as illustrated in your link for Mac OS. Is it possible this 
button only appears if the OS senses that user is trying to open an 
unauthorized app?

Roger



> On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:22 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Roger Guay wrote:
>> 
>> In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac,
>> Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly.
> 
> On desktop you still can, sort of, if you don't mind instructing your users 
> how to get around the security blocks that both Windows and Mac OS have 
> adopted. If your users are just family and friends, this is viable. Someone 
> more familiar with Linux can say whether this method works there.
> 
> Here is a skeletal outline off the top of my head (so I may have missed 
> something,) but it should give you the idea. A "runner" app is easy to make, 
> basically a stack with one card and a single button. The button script:
> 
> on mouseup
>  answer file "Choose a stack to open:"
>  if it is empty then exit to top
>  go stack it
> end mouseup
> 
> Add an openStack handler on the card so that resources can be shared:
> 
> on openStack
>  start using this stack
> end openStack
> 
> 
> That's the whole stack. Now set up standalone settings for the desired build 
> platform. Include all extensions, libraries, widgets, etc. that your stacks 
> need, or you think they might need in the future. Your app will be limited to 
> the inclusions your license permits.
> 
> Build the app. Send it to friends along with your stacks.
> 
> Now the part where you do some explaining. Since the app isn't notarized by 
> Apple or authorized by Microsoft, explain to them how to bypass the blockage 
> and get the app to open. They only need to do this once on first launch. 
> There are lots of hits if you search for "how to open unnotarized app on big 
> sur" or "open unauthorized app on windows."
> 
> Here's one for Mac OS: 
> 
> 
> And one for Windows: 
> 
> 
> This won't work for mobile apps, though with some adjustments you can build a 
> runner app for Android if you're willing to distribute from the internet.
> 
> Also note: The stacks you distribute cannot violate the LC license agreement. 
> They can't reproduce IDE features or allow users to do things that only a 
> licensed user can do. Please don't violate the license agreement; we all want 
> LC to prosper.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-27 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
A couple of things. The developer is not even required to build a standalone, 
and presumably it would be easier to strip out or hide the IDE of 
LiveCodeLight. Otherwise, either way is good.

Roger

> On Mar 27, 2021, at 10:36 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something, but what would be the advantage of using stack 
> runner
> over a standalone?
> 
> Richmond.

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-27 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Could be, but that requires you to be an Apple Developer. Too much hassle! A 
LiveCodeLight from RunRev that runs stacks without the IDE would be easier.

Roger


> On Mar 27, 2021, at 10:18 AM, ELS Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I thought that if you set up beta testers, with the id of the device an app 
> would be run on, others could run your app as a beta tester. But, perhaps,you 
> need an apple license to do even that?
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:10 PM, David Squance via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for the confirmation.
>> Dave
>> 
>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:05 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You’re right, David. I was specifically addressing standalones for Mac, 
>>> Windows and Linux. They are easily created without licenses etc. for use on 
>>> your own computer, but cannot be distributed w/o licenses etc
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 9:39 PM, David Squance via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> It was my understanding that iOS apps can’t even be created without a 
>>>> license from Apple. Mostly what I would want to share would be games I 
>>>> made for my grandson and he only uses iOS devices.
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve never tried making a standalone for iOS, even for testing, because I 
>>>> didn’t think I could. Is that not the case?
>>>> 
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roger Guay wrote:
>>>>>> Has anyone thought of building a “legal” and “blessed" app for
>>>>>> Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each
>>>>>> of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and
>>>>>> expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily
>>>>>> distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to
>>>>>> open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open
>>>>>> .livecode files
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-27 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
A few days ago, a very impressive post came in here from a researcher at an 
accelerator lab somewhere. I’ve lost the post and may have some details wrong. 
As I recall he was very complimentary of LiveCode as a tool for his work but 
was lamenting that he could no longer easily share his work with colleagues. 
The idea of a LiveCodeLight downloadable from RunRev that opens and runs stacks 
without the IDE, would go a long way to solving his problem. Much better than a 
web served approach, IMHO. 

But, what do I know?

Roger

> On Mar 27, 2021, at 9:34 AM, Robert J. Earp via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> But going back to you suggestion, as you know I think LC has totally lost 
> focus on what its heritage was, except maybe LC Server, if that still exists. 
>  If it does, you should be able to develop on whatever, deliver on a web 
> server with LC Server loaded, and anybody could run the project anywhere 
> there is a browser.  Or along with willy and nilly have I totally lost it, 
> which has been known on occasion !!

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-27 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
This conversation has given me some focus and clarification of the basic idea. 
Here is what I would love to see: A LiveCodeLight downloadable from the mother 
ship. LiveCodeLight would be a stripped down version of the community edition 
that would not open the IDE, but would open and run stacks. 

Thanks, Brian for the idea.

Is that a cool idea or what?


Roger 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-26 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
You’re right, David. I was specifically addressing standalones for Mac, Windows 
and Linux. They are easily created without licenses etc. for use on your own 
computer, but cannot be distributed w/o licenses etc

Roger

> On Mar 26, 2021, at 9:39 PM, David Squance via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> It was my understanding that iOS apps can’t even be created without a license 
> from Apple. Mostly what I would want to share would be games I made for my 
> grandson and he only uses iOS devices.
> 
> I’ve never tried making a standalone for iOS, even for testing, because I 
> didn’t think I could. Is that not the case?
> 
> Dave
> 
>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Roger Guay wrote:
>>> Has anyone thought of building a “legal” and “blessed" app for
>>> Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each
>>> of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and
>>> expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily
>>> distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to
>>> open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open
>>> .livecode files
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-26 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Yes, that’s probably the best answer so far. I just think it’s a little bit 
harder to convince someone to download Livecode community than to pick up a 
cute little app from the app store specifically designed to run standalones. 
Just a stupid idea I guess. 

Roger

> On Mar 26, 2021, at 9:28 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Couldn’t your stack hide the IDE stuff on launch and just have them install 
> the community IDE?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:46 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, Windows and 
>> Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to jump thru intolerable 
>> hoops (at least for the Mac) to give someone my standalone. if someone 
>> (hint. . .hint) could build a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even 
>> free w advertising that would run LC standalones, everything would be right 
>> in the world again! 
>> 
>> I think my martini is showing...
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 5:35 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> What are you looking for?  When were these "good ol days" in which one 
>>> could run stack files without an engine, and how did that work?
>> 
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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-26 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, Windows and Linux 
and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to jump thru intolerable hoops (at 
least for the Mac) to give someone my standalone. if someone (hint. . .hint) 
could build a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even free w advertising 
that would run LC standalones, everything would be right in the world again! 

I think my martini is showing...

Roger

> On Mar 26, 2021, at 5:35 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> What are you looking for?  When were these "good ol days" in which one could 
> run stack files without an engine, and how did that work?

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Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-26 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I guess I’m just thick headed, Richard, but I don’t know how anything you said 
solves my problem. Say I want to share a standalone with my wife or a friend. 
How can I do that easily like the good ol days?

Roger


> On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Roger Guay wrote:
> > Has anyone thought of building a “legal” and “blessed" app for
> > Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each
> > of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and
> > expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily
> > distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to
> > open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open
> > .livecode files
> 
> 
> Applications can have documents, and with many apps the documents are 
> interactive media.  The LC engine has been supporting the ability to do that 
> since the beginning.
> 
> A stack can open another stack file equally well whether you run that stack 
> in the IDE or as a standalone.
> 
> You make just one standalone set up with the libraries and UI you want to 
> present to your audience, and allow it to open anything you want folks to run 
> with it.
> 
> The Standalone Builder even provides a place to assign a document type for 
> your app's files.
> 
> 
> There are many reasons it would be problematic to make one generic "player" 
> for everyone's stack files, mostly user experience but also app store 
> restrictions, and additional technical requirements for any devs using it to 
> keep stacks playing nicely together.
> 
> 
> But you can make just one standalone and run anything else you make with it.
> 
> Most of the work I've done over the years does exactly that. We deliver new 
> stuff all the time, but we don't bother updating the installed app but maybe 
> once every could years as OS/engine needs change - we do it all with stack 
> files as documents to the app.
> 
> In fact, for the last decade or so I've gone one further: users don't even 
> need to deal with documents, at least not directly.  The standalone pulls 
> them down over the web.
> 
> Modern, cloud-driven, just like Adobe, Microsoft and others are heavily 
> invested in.  Only it's easier in LC, as easy as "go stack ".
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> 
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New(?) Idea for Standalones

2021-03-26 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Has anyone thought of building a “legal” and “blessed" app for Mac, WIndows and 
Linux that would open standalones for for each of those platforms? Why put each 
of us through the agony (and expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be 
able to easily distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to 
open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open .livecode files

Roger
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Re: Multiple Displays and Screenrect

2021-03-19 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Got it. Thanks, Richmond.



> On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:31 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> put the screenrects
> 
> with an 's'
> 
> Best, Richmond.
> 
> On 18.03.21 23:28, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Can someone please tell me how to get the screenRect of multiple monitor 
>> setup?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
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Multiple Displays and Screenrect

2021-03-18 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Can someone please tell me how to get the screenRect of multiple monitor setup?

Thanks,
Roger
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Re: Little tool for popUp palette graphics

2021-03-12 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Very cool and useful! Thank you Michael

Roger

> On Mar 12, 2021, at 10:48 AM, Michael Kristensen via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi there
> 
> I have placed at little tool for you here:
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=13399=203217#p203217 
> 
> 
> Hope it is useful.
> Michael
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Re: Which Monitor to Open LC In

2021-02-23 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thank you Paul! Especially for all the detail. You are absolutely right on 
target, and everything is good now.

Cheers,
Roger

> On Feb 23, 2021, at 10:24 AM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I should have explained more, but I answered just before shutting my 
> Mac down for the night. I’m still on Catalina (10.15.7), but this type of 
> control doesn’t usually change too much if it’s still there.
> 
> To check Spaces, go to System Preferences, open Mission Control and check 
> which shortcut is assigned to "Show Deskto"p, it’s usually F3 by default. I 
> prefer “Group windows by application” to be off, but that’s just my choice.
> 
> Now press the F3 key to open the Spaces view (depending on your keyboard 
> settings, you may need to press both the fn key and F3 to access Spaces). If 
> you haven’t set any extra desktops before you will see “Desktop 1” for the 
> main monitor and “Desktop 2” for the secondary monitor at the tops of the 
> screens. Now move the mouse pointer to the grey bar at the top and you should 
> see a “+” appear at the right hand side, click on the “+” to add a third 
> Desktop, you don’t have to use this, but it will allow you to assign apps to 
> specific desktop views. Close the view by clicking on any of the open windows 
> or press F3 again.
> 
> Now you can right click on the Dock Icon for LC and choose the option to 
> assign it to "Desktop on Display 1”, or whichever you prefer.
> 
> If you wish to remove any extra Desktops, press F3 then place the mouse 
> pointer over a Desktop thumbnail in the top bar and a circle with an X will 
> appear, click on that to remove the Desktop. Once you have removed any excess 
> Desktops and you are down to Desktop 1 and 2, you will lose the option to 
> assign applications to a particular display, I’m not sure what the logic of 
> this is, but that’s how it goes.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Paul
> 
>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 9:52 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hmmm, I don’t have that option!?? I’m using LC 9.6.1 in OS 11.2 What is your 
>> config?
>> 
>> Thanks Paul!
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose “Options” 
>>> then select “Assign to Desktop on Display 1”, should do it.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC 
>>>> to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched 
>>>> on me and I can’t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external 
>>>> monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Roger
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>>> 
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Re: Which Monitor to Open LC In

2021-02-23 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Very strange! I don’t have those options….

Roger


> On Feb 23, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Works for me on OS11.2.1 (Big Sur) on my MacBook out of the box. The actual 
> text shown is “Assign to desktop on” and then “Display 1” or “Display 2”.
> 
>> On 23 Feb 2021, at 16:36, Devin Asay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Roger,
>> 
>> Perhaps you need to set up Spaces first?
>> 
>> - Devin
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 10:52 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hmmm, I don’t have that option!?? I’m using LC 9.6.1 in OS 11.2 What is 
>>> your config?
>>> 
>>> Thanks Paul!
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose “Options” 
>>>> then select “Assign to Desktop on Display 1”, should do it.
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC 
>>>>> to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly 
>>>>> switched on me and I can’t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the 
>>>>> external monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Roger
>> 
>> Devin Asay
>> Director
>> Office of Digital Humanities
>> Brigham Young University
>> 
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Re: Which Monitor to Open LC In

2021-02-23 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I don’t normally use Spaces as I don’t leave a lot apps open, but, when I enter 
Spaces, I see that my MBP monitor is Desktop 1 and my external monitor is 
Desktop 2.


Roger

> On Feb 23, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Devin Asay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Roger,
> 
> Perhaps you need to set up Spaces first?
> 
> - Devin
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 10:52 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hmmm, I don’t have that option!?? I’m using LC 9.6.1 in OS 11.2 What is your 
>> config?
>> 
>> Thanks Paul!
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose “Options” 
>>> then select “Assign to Desktop on Display 1”, should do it.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC 
>>>> to open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched 
>>>> on me and I can’t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external 
>>>> monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Roger
> 
> Devin Asay
> Director
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
> 
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Re: Which Monitor to Open LC In

2021-02-22 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Hmmm, I don’t have that option!?? I’m using LC 9.6.1 in OS 11.2 What is your 
config?

Thanks Paul!

Roger

> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:48 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Right-click (ctrl-click) on the LC icon in the dock and choose “Options” then 
> select “Assign to Desktop on Display 1”, should do it.
> 
> Paul
> 
>> On 22Feb, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC to 
>> open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched on 
>> me and I can’t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external 
>> monitor is arranged to be above the MBP display.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
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Which Monitor to Open LC In

2021-02-22 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
 I have a MBP with an external monitor. Does anybody know how to force LC to 
open on the internal display and not the external? It suddenly switched on me 
and I can’t figure out why or how to control it. BTW, the external monitor is 
arranged to be above the MBP display.

Thanks,
Roger
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Re: "within graphic" question

2021-02-22 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
 I’ve had this problem before and solved it with a work-around/hack using the 
intersect of 2 graphics with small alpha values. 

Roger

> On Feb 22, 2021, at 2:02 PM, jbv via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Le 2021-02-22 15:26, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode a écrit :
>> Since the properties of the arc is available even if it is invisible,
>> this will work though:
>> on mouseDown
>> put isWithin("myGraphic",the clickLoc)
>> end mouseDown
>> function isWithin pGraphic pClickLoc
>> if pClickLoc is within the rect of grc pGraphic then
>> return true
>> else
>> return false
>> end if
>> end isWithin
> 
> Thank you, but this won't work for I need to test the
> exact shape of the graphics, not its bounding box...
> 
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Re: LC Roadmap

2021-02-15 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I definitely owe an apology to Matthias Rebbe for not recognizing his 
outstanding lesson “Codesigning and notarizing your LC standalone for 
distribution outside the Mac Appstore- “, including the fact of the recent 
update of Feb 9th. The amount of work involved in creating this lesson is 
mind-boggling to me.

Thank you, Matthias!!

Roger

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I just noticed that the "Codesigning and Notarizing your LC Standalone etc” 
> lesson was updated on Feb 9, 2021. Perhaps I misrepresented the real 
> situation in my previous post.
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, permit me to chime in here with full knowledge that I may be out of 
>> date with what’s already available. 
>> 
>> Arguably the most important feature of LC is its muliplatformness. 
>> Recognizing that it is a moving target, We/I need and want up to date easy 
>> to use lessons on how to build standalones for all the platforms. Since it 
>> is moving target these lessons should have revision cycles with clear up 
>> front indication of what OS and LC versions are being  used in each lesson. 
>> One of the problems I encounter is the bewildering platform jargon in 
>> existing lessons. I wish more simple language could be used to perhaps 
>> explain the jargon.
>> 
>> I am an Apple user (not a bigot) and it annoys the hell of me that I can no 
>> longer build distributable standalones for the Mac. It’s not reasonable to 
>> expect to change Apple, so we need to make it easier for us LC users. I 
>> briefly looked at the current lesson for this some time ago and at first 
>> glance it seemed unnecessarily complicated. I admit I might be me at fault 
>> here but here we are…
>> 
>> Just trying to help,
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 1:52 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> What do you want to learn?
>>> 
>>> Let's identify topic areas, and then it will become much simpler to sort 
>>> out how they get addressed.
>>> 
>> 
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Re: LC Roadmap

2021-02-14 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I just noticed that the "Codesigning and Notarizing your LC Standalone etc” 
lesson was updated on Feb 9, 2021. Perhaps I misrepresented the real situation 
in my previous post.

Roger


> On Feb 14, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well, permit me to chime in here with full knowledge that I may be out of 
> date with what’s already available. 
> 
> Arguably the most important feature of LC is its muliplatformness. 
> Recognizing that it is a moving target, We/I need and want up to date easy to 
> use lessons on how to build standalones for all the platforms. Since it is 
> moving target these lessons should have revision cycles with clear up front 
> indication of what OS and LC versions are being  used in each lesson. One of 
> the problems I encounter is the bewildering platform jargon in existing 
> lessons. I wish more simple language could be used to perhaps explain the 
> jargon.
> 
> I am an Apple user (not a bigot) and it annoys the hell of me that I can no 
> longer build distributable standalones for the Mac. It’s not reasonable to 
> expect to change Apple, so we need to make it easier for us LC users. I 
> briefly looked at the current lesson for this some time ago and at first 
> glance it seemed unnecessarily complicated. I admit I might be me at fault 
> here but here we are…
> 
> Just trying to help,
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2021, at 1:52 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> What do you want to learn?
>> 
>> Let's identify topic areas, and then it will become much simpler to sort out 
>> how they get addressed.
>> 
> 
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Re: LC Roadmap

2021-02-14 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Well, permit me to chime in here with full knowledge that I may be out of date 
with what’s already available. 

Arguably the most important feature of LC is its muliplatformness. Recognizing 
that it is a moving target, We/I need and want up to date easy to use lessons 
on how to build standalones for all the platforms. Since it is moving target 
these lessons should have revision cycles with clear up front indication of 
what OS and LC versions are being  used in each lesson. One of the problems I 
encounter is the bewildering platform jargon in existing lessons. I wish more 
simple language could be used to perhaps explain the jargon.

I am an Apple user (not a bigot) and it annoys the hell of me that I can no 
longer build distributable standalones for the Mac. It’s not reasonable to 
expect to change Apple, so we need to make it easier for us LC users. I briefly 
looked at the current lesson for this some time ago and at first glance it 
seemed unnecessarily complicated. I admit I might be me at fault here but here 
we are…

Just trying to help,

Roger

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 1:52 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> What do you want to learn?
> 
> Let's identify topic areas, and then it will become much simpler to sort out 
> how they get addressed.
> 

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Re: Livecode IDE question

2021-02-12 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I’m having a similar problem on my new MBP, and haven’t figured out  the cause 
yet. Just type this in the message box for an temporary fix:

set the top of stack revMenubar to 25 - - - or so


Roger


> On Feb 12, 2021, at 10:58 AM, David Squance via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’m a hobbyist, and infrequent dabbler, and I hope my question isn’t 
> inappropriate to post here. I find the forum too cumbersome and daunting. 
> With recent upgrades, the toolbar at the top of the screen in the IDE is 
> fixed about an inch below the top. Is there anyway to move it up? I use a 
> MacBook Air and the screen is small enough.
> 
> Thanks.
> Dave
> 
> LC9.6.2 RC2
> OS 11.2.1
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

2020-12-30 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I think so, but others may be more informed.

Roger

> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:29 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Should any LC standalone work with the Mac M1 Chip
> if it was working on Mojave and above?
> 
> JB
> 
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you 
>> wish??
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? 
>>> I have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Marty
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

2020-12-30 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Yes, I just tried it and it works fine! I’m happy to try yours out if you wish??

Roger


> On Dec 30, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Has anyone tried an LC standalone on one of the new Macs with the M1 chip? I 
> have customers asking and I don’t want to go buy one just to find out!
> 
> Thanks,
> Marty
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Cmi5 eLearning Standard in LiveCode

2020-12-30 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Just curious . . . is anyone using cmi5 in building LC eLearning modules? 

Roger
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Re: Backdrop Preference for None

2020-12-16 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
You’re right Mathias! I was using the message box to set it to none which 
didn’t stick. Every time I launched LC, the backdrop reappeared. Using the 
menu, it sticks.

Thank you,
Roger


> On Dec 16, 2020, at 3:05 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Can't you switch it off using the menu View->Backdrop?
> 
> Regards
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 16.12.2020 um 23:53 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> I can’t figure out how to set backdrop to none as a preference. I had it 
>> before I trashed my preferences but now none is not an oprtion.
>> 
>> Thanks for your help.
>> 
>> Roger
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Backdrop Preference for None

2020-12-16 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I can’t figure out how to set backdrop to none as a preference. I had it before 
I trashed my preferences but now none is not an oprtion.

Thanks for your help.

Roger
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Re: Spoke Too Soon - Solved

2020-12-16 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Trashing the prefs seems to have solved my problem(s)

Roger

> On Dec 16, 2020, at 12:35 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well, after thinking everything was fine with LC 9.6 running in Mac OS Big 
> Sur on the new MBP with the M1 chip, I now find major problems:
> 
> 1. Tools menu. Menubar and other plugins open in very strange areas
> 2. MouseEvents are not recognized
> 3 Overall, Dead in the water!!
> 
> 
> Any suggestions would be geratly appreciated.
> 
> Roger
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Spoke Too Soon

2020-12-16 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Well, after thinking everything was fine with LC 9.6 running in Mac OS Big Sur 
on the new MBP with the M1 chip, I now find major problems:

1. Tools menu. Menubar and other plugins open in very strange areas
2. MouseEvents are not recognized
3 Overall, Dead in the water!!


Any suggestions would be geratly appreciated.

Roger
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Re: New MacBook Pro Results

2020-12-14 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I don’t know, but I’m sure others on this list do.

Roger


> On Dec 13, 2020, at 8:45 PM, Linda Miller via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> “I sure do miss Scott!”
> 
> I have been watching videos from different conferences and enjoyed his 
> lectures. So, what happened to Scott?
> 
> Linda
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New MacBook Pro Results

2020-12-12 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thought some of you might like to know, LC 6.0 works fine in MacOS Big Sur on 
the new MacBook Pro. The only problem I’ve encountered so far is a minor glitch 
with Scott Rossi’s tmEffects and tmAlign, my favorite plugins. They both now 
display a slightly larger white backdrop. Annoying, but they work just fine. I 
sure do miss Scott!

Roger
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Re: Some sad news

2020-12-04 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I’ve received a lot of valuable help over the years from hh. Farewell, Herman.

Roger


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Re: Translate Code?

2020-12-03 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thank you, Alex. This gives me something to play with.

Roger

> On Dec 3, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'll have a try - though it's in R, not Python - and I've never used R -)
> 
> constant alpha = 2
> constant n = 1000
> -- x, y are arrays - initialised to 0 already for LC, so no need for "rep"
> 
> repeat with i = 2 to n
>   -- runif(1) returns a random between 0 and 1, so do something similar
>   put (random(1) / 1) * 2 * pi into theta
>   put (random(1) / 1) ^ (-1/alpha) into f
>   put x[i-1] + f*cos(theta) into x[i]
>   put y[i-1] + f * sin(theta) into y[i]
> end repeat
> 
> Any mistakes are mine - any correct bits are courtesy of Google -)
> 
> -- Alex.
> 
> On 03/12/2020 19:48, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Can someone please translate the code below into LC ? I believe it to be 
>> Python?
>> alpha=2
>> n=1000
>> x=rep(0,n)
>> y=rep(0,n)
>> 
>> for (i in 2:n){
>>theta=runif(1)*2*pi
>>f=runif(1)^(-1/alpha)
>>x[i]=x[i-1]+f*cos(theta)
>>y[i]=y[i-1]+f*sin(theta)
>> }
>> 
>> Thanks very much,
>> 
>> Roger
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Translate Code?

2020-12-03 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Can someone please translate the code below into LC ? I believe it to be Python?
alpha=2
n=1000
x=rep(0,n)
y=rep(0,n)

for (i in 2:n){
   theta=runif(1)*2*pi
   f=runif(1)^(-1/alpha)
   x[i]=x[i-1]+f*cos(theta)
   y[i]=y[i-1]+f*sin(theta)
}

Thanks very much,

Roger
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Re: Getting a real number from scientific notation

2020-11-23 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Unfortunately, there are not enough examples in the dictionary for an amateur 
like myself to understand it!

Roger

> On Nov 23, 2020, at 4:09 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> All this is why I prefer format() over numberFormat. The function is more 
> versatile and you get exactly what you specify with less guess work.
> 
> On 11/23/2020 6:52 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Yaknow, this whole thing is confusing. Turns out you don’t even need to set 
>> the numberFormat.
>> put 4.21911e+11 + 0 results in 42191000.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Craig newman via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Nope.
>>> 
>>> The "numberFormat" property is perfectly happy with quotes around its 
>>> formatExpression. It is also perfectly happy without it. But I always use 
>>> quotes for things like this.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
>>> Of Roger Guay via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 5:25 PM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode 
>>> Cc: Roger Guay 
>>> Subject: Re: Getting a real number from scientific notation
>>> 
>>> That works. Thanks, Klaus!
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 1:55 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Roger,
>>>> 
>>>> you forgot + 0 :-)
>>>> 
>>>> on MouseUp
>>>> set the numberformat to 0 # NO quotes around this 0 or LC gives an
>>>> error  put 4.21911e+11 + 0 End mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> -> 42191100
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 23.11.2020 um 22:50 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>>> :
>>>>>   on MouseUp
>>>>>   set the numberformat to  “0"
>>>>>   put 4.21911e+11
>>>>>   End mouseUp
>>>>> puts 4.21911e+11 into msg box
>>>>> What am I missing?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Roger
>>>> Best
>>>> 
>>>> Klaus
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Klaus Major
>>>> https://www.major-k.de
>>>> kl...@major-k.de
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ___
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
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>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> ___
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Re: Getting a real number from scientific notation

2020-11-23 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Yaknow, this whole thing is confusing. Turns out you don’t even need to set the 
numberFormat.
put 4.21911e+11 + 0 results in 42191000.

Roger

> On Nov 23, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Craig newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Nope.
> 
> The "numberFormat" property is perfectly happy with quotes around its 
> formatExpression. It is also perfectly happy without it. But I always use 
> quotes for things like this.
> 
> Craig
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
> Of Roger Guay via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 5:25 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Cc: Roger Guay 
> Subject: Re: Getting a real number from scientific notation
> 
> That works. Thanks, Klaus!
> 
> Roger
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 1:55 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Roger,
>> 
>> you forgot + 0 :-)
>> 
>> on MouseUp
>> set the numberformat to 0 # NO quotes around this 0 or LC gives an 
>> error  put 4.21911e+11 + 0 End mouseUp
>> 
>> -> 42191100
>> 
>>> Am 23.11.2020 um 22:50 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> on MouseUp
>>> set the numberformat to  “0"
>>> put 4.21911e+11
>>> End mouseUp
>>> puts 4.21911e+11 into msg box
>>> What am I missing?
>>> 
>>> Roger
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus
>> 
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> kl...@major-k.de
>> 
>> 
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Re: Getting a real number from scientific notation

2020-11-23 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
That works. Thanks, Klaus!

Roger



> On Nov 23, 2020, at 1:55 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Roger,
> 
> you forgot + 0 :-)
> 
> on MouseUp
>  set the numberformat to 0 # NO quotes around this 0 or LC gives an error
>  put 4.21911e+11 + 0
> End mouseUp
> 
> -> 42191100
> 
>> Am 23.11.2020 um 22:50 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>>  on MouseUp
>>  set the numberformat to  “0"
>>  put 4.21911e+11
>>  End mouseUp
>> puts 4.21911e+11 into msg box
>> What am I missing?
>> 
>> Roger
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
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Re: Getting a real number from scientific notation

2020-11-23 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Oops, doesn’t work here. I have this script:
on MouseUp

set the numberformat to  “0"

put 4.21911e+11

End mouseUp

puts 4.21911e+11 into msg box

What am I missing?

Roger


> On Nov 23, 2020, at 6:57 AM, Craig newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Klaus.
> 
> Old fashioned way:
> 
> Set the numberFormat to "0"
> Answer "4.21911E+11" + 0
> 
> Craig
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode
> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2020 3:48 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Cc: Klaus major-k 
> Subject: Re: Getting a real number from scientific notation
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
>> Am 22.11.2020 um 21:44 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
> :
>> 
>> So, if you want to concert form scientific notation to a real number, you
> can use the "format" function (see dictionary). Example:
>> putformat("%1.0f",4.21911E+11) -- outputs 42191100 Is that shat yo 
>> are looking for?
> 
> YES, thanks a BUNCH, that is exactly what I need!
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
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Re: Delete Menu Item from Option Menu Button

2020-11-14 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thanks, Mark. That’s the approach I was trying but had forgotten about 
lineOffset. Instead, i was trying the Find command etc and making no headway.

Roger

> On Nov 14, 2020, at 4:31 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 11/14/20 4:03 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Can someone tell me how to delete a menuItem from an Option Menu button 
>> programmatically?
>> Standing by ready to apply dope slap.
> 
> No dope slap necessary - it's not really obvious.
> The menuItems are stored as the text of the button, so you can get and set it 
> easily.
> 
> put button  into tText
> -- edit tText here
> -- you can do a lineOffset and delete line x of tText
> put tText into button 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Delete Menu Item from Option Menu Button

2020-11-14 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Can someone tell me how to delete a menuItem from an Option Menu button 
programmatically?

Standing by ready to apply dope slap.

Roger
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Re: The Most Stupid Question Ever?

2020-11-10 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Weirder of Weider???

R

> On Nov 10, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>  Wierder than you think.

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Re: The Most Stupid Question Ever?

2020-11-08 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thank you, Mark. You’re very kind! And very helpful. I do remember now how one 
needs to wait with messages.

Roger

> On Nov 8, 2020, at 9:05 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 11/8/20 8:02 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 11/8/20 6:57 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Please tell me why this doesn’t work:
> 
> ...and that is, btw, hardly a stupid question.
> You want stupid you'll have to get in line after me.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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The Most Stupid Question Ever?

2020-11-08 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Please tell me why this doesn’t work:

on mouseUp

put "start"

wait for 5 seconds

put "stop"

end mouseUp

“start” never appears in the message box and after 5 seconds, “stop” appears
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Re: Plotting Equations that Bifurcate

2020-11-04 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
PlotPurri and Plotpular 

R

> On Nov 4, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> The plot sickens…
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Nov 4, 2020, at 3:58 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> On 11/4/20 3:37 PM, Jerry Jensen via use-livecode wrote:
> Neil DeGraph Tyson?
> On Nov 4, 2020, at 3:09 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> Oooh, I like it! How about VanDeGraph?
> 
> The Graph is Always Greener.
> 
> --
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com<mailto:ahsoftw...@gmail.com>
> 
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Re: Plotting Equations that Bifurcate

2020-11-04 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I was thinking of taking a tangent approach. How about PlotDuJour?

> On Nov 4, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Jerry Jensen via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Neil DeGraph Tyson?
> 
>> On Nov 4, 2020, at 3:09 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Oooh, I like it! How about VanDeGraph?
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Nov 4, 2020, at 3:03 PM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I assume the expanded version will be called SedanDeGraph.
>>> —
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 4, 2020, at 10:09 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for your continued interest in my little project. I have succeeded 
>>>> in implementing a multiple polygon approach, but it ain’t elegant as they 
>>>> say!
>>>> 
>>>> I seem to recall that I learned a lot from your GraphMaker some time ago, 
>>>> but as I try to review your latest on your website, I run into repeated 
>>>> errors about “can’t find handler gmSetCustomMarker”. I can’t seem to make 
>>>> any headway to resolve this. Am I supposed to do something with the 
>>>> “Library”? I could not find instructions anywhere. 
>>>> 
>>>> Meanwhile, I should explain further that I am trying to expand on a stack 
>>>> that I built 2 or 3 years ago called CoupDeGraph which you can find in the 
>>>> Example Stacks of LiveCode. Put simply, I am currently trying to expand on 
>>>> CoupDeGraph to be able to handle double-valued equations.
>>>> 
>>>> Again, thanks for your help
>>>> 
>>>> Roger
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 3, 2020, at 4:48 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 31/10/2020 02:28, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Lots of clever ideas here, Alex, but I think you’re missing the point of 
>>>>>> what I ultimately want to do. I'm building a plotting program for which 
>>>>>> I want to plot any equation including those that have multiple values of 
>>>>>> y for a given x. An equation might branch at any point and might even 
>>>>>> have multiple branches both of which are unknown before plotting.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Of course, there’s always the possibility that I’m not fully 
>>>>>> comprehending your suggestions??? What does NB stand for? Are you 
>>>>>> suggesting creating a new polygon every time a branch is detected? That 
>>>>>> just might work?!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Roger. You're right - I missed the point; I jumped to the assumption 
>>>>> that you were asking about a fairly small, specific issue - so leapt too 
>>>>> quickly to a code sample. But before I address the general question(s), 
>>>>> let me get the little points out of the way :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> NB - sorry, kind of common usage in British English. Actually, it's from 
>>>>> a Latin phrase - "Nota Bene" - meaning "note well". So basically just 
>>>>> 'take note of'.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "a new polygon every branch" - yes, perfectly possible. Also possible is 
>>>>> what I did in the first case of the code sample -  a new 'sequence of 
>>>>> points' for each branch, and then stitch those together (with blank lines 
>>>>> between) into a single polygon; but that's, for now, a detail.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The essence of the problem is that your app will (somehow) develop a 
>>>>> number of 'sequences of *data* points' - and then those need to be 
>>>>> translated into equivalent sets of *display* points (by either a plotting 
>>>>> library, or by your own code) to allow it to be displayed appropriately.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There are at least two possible plotting libraries that might do what you 
>>>>> want (or do something close enough that they could be useful). By 
>>>>> coincidence, they were both discussed at the San Jose LC conference in 
>>>>> 2019.If you have access to the video / papers from that you might already 
>>>>> have some of the info you need; I don't know if the conference papers are 
>>>>> ever put out for more general usage later.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Option A. Monte 

Re: Plotting Equations that Bifurcate

2020-11-04 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Oooh, I like it! How about VanDeGraph?

Roger

> On Nov 4, 2020, at 3:03 PM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I assume the expanded version will be called SedanDeGraph.
> —
> Scott
> 
>> On Nov 4, 2020, at 10:09 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Alex,
>> 
>> Thanks for your continued interest in my little project. I have succeeded in 
>> implementing a multiple polygon approach, but it ain’t elegant as they say!
>> 
>> I seem to recall that I learned a lot from your GraphMaker some time ago, 
>> but as I try to review your latest on your website, I run into repeated 
>> errors about “can’t find handler gmSetCustomMarker”. I can’t seem to make 
>> any headway to resolve this. Am I supposed to do something with the 
>> “Library”? I could not find instructions anywhere. 
>> 
>> Meanwhile, I should explain further that I am trying to expand on a stack 
>> that I built 2 or 3 years ago called CoupDeGraph which you can find in the 
>> Example Stacks of LiveCode. Put simply, I am currently trying to expand on 
>> CoupDeGraph to be able to handle double-valued equations.
>> 
>> Again, thanks for your help
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Nov 3, 2020, at 4:48 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 31/10/2020 02:28, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Lots of clever ideas here, Alex, but I think you’re missing the point of 
>>>> what I ultimately want to do. I'm building a plotting program for which I 
>>>> want to plot any equation including those that have multiple values of y 
>>>> for a given x. An equation might branch at any point and might even have 
>>>> multiple branches both of which are unknown before plotting.
>>>> 
>>>> Of course, there’s always the possibility that I’m not fully comprehending 
>>>> your suggestions??? What does NB stand for? Are you suggesting creating a 
>>>> new polygon every time a branch is detected? That just might work?!
>>> 
>>> Hi Roger. You're right - I missed the point; I jumped to the assumption 
>>> that you were asking about a fairly small, specific issue - so leapt too 
>>> quickly to a code sample. But before I address the general question(s), let 
>>> me get the little points out of the way :-)
>>> 
>>> NB - sorry, kind of common usage in British English. Actually, it's from a 
>>> Latin phrase - "Nota Bene" - meaning "note well". So basically just 'take 
>>> note of'.
>>> 
>>> "a new polygon every branch" - yes, perfectly possible. Also possible is 
>>> what I did in the first case of the code sample -  a new 'sequence of 
>>> points' for each branch, and then stitch those together (with blank lines 
>>> between) into a single polygon; but that's, for now, a detail.
>>> 
>>> The essence of the problem is that your app will (somehow) develop a number 
>>> of 'sequences of *data* points' - and then those need to be translated into 
>>> equivalent sets of *display* points (by either a plotting library, or by 
>>> your own code) to allow it to be displayed appropriately.
>>> 
>>> There are at least two possible plotting libraries that might do what you 
>>> want (or do something close enough that they could be useful). By 
>>> coincidence, they were both discussed at the San Jose LC conference in 
>>> 2019.If you have access to the video / papers from that you might already 
>>> have some of the info you need; I don't know if the conference papers are 
>>> ever put out for more general usage later.
>>> 
>>> Option A. Monte described a wrapper for the JSPlot library. It's a very 
>>> powerful library capable of many kinds of graphs / plots, and very quick 
>>> and capable. The most obvious downside is that it needs to be used within a 
>>> browser widget - but well worth looking at it if you can.
>>> 
>>> Option B. I did a library called "GraphMaker" - a pure-Livecode plotting 
>>> library. It is (I think) fairly easy to use - but that may not be the case 
>>> for someone else coming to it new. I know it can handle this case of 
>>> bifurcating plots (using multiple sequences of data points). The conference 
>>> slides were a decent, if very brief, introduction; the lengthier 
>>> documentation was, maybe, not quite complete. However, it does come with a 
>>> demo app that uses the library to draw a variety of graph types. Main 
>&

Re: Plotting Equations that Bifurcate

2020-11-04 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Hi Alex,

Thanks for your continued interest in my little project. I have succeeded in 
implementing a multiple polygon approach, but it ain’t elegant as they say!

I seem to recall that I learned a lot from your GraphMaker some time ago, but 
as I try to review your latest on your website, I run into repeated errors 
about “can’t find handler gmSetCustomMarker”. I can’t seem to make any headway 
to resolve this. Am I supposed to do something with the “Library”? I could not 
find instructions anywhere. 

Meanwhile, I should explain further that I am trying to expand on a stack that 
I built 2 or 3 years ago called CoupDeGraph which you can find in the Example 
Stacks of LiveCode. Put simply, I am currently trying to expand on CoupDeGraph 
to be able to handle double-valued equations.

Again, thanks for your help

Roger

> On Nov 3, 2020, at 4:48 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 31/10/2020 02:28, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> Lots of clever ideas here, Alex, but I think you’re missing the point of 
>> what I ultimately want to do. I'm building a plotting program for which I 
>> want to plot any equation including those that have multiple values of y for 
>> a given x. An equation might branch at any point and might even have 
>> multiple branches both of which are unknown before plotting.
>> 
>> Of course, there’s always the possibility that I’m not fully comprehending 
>> your suggestions??? What does NB stand for? Are you suggesting creating a 
>> new polygon every time a branch is detected? That just might work?!
> 
> Hi Roger. You're right - I missed the point; I jumped to the assumption that 
> you were asking about a fairly small, specific issue - so leapt too quickly 
> to a code sample. But before I address the general question(s), let me get 
> the little points out of the way :-)
> 
> NB - sorry, kind of common usage in British English. Actually, it's from a 
> Latin phrase - "Nota Bene" - meaning "note well". So basically just 'take 
> note of'.
> 
> "a new polygon every branch" - yes, perfectly possible. Also possible is what 
> I did in the first case of the code sample -  a new 'sequence of points' for 
> each branch, and then stitch those together (with blank lines between) into a 
> single polygon; but that's, for now, a detail.
> 
> The essence of the problem is that your app will (somehow) develop a number 
> of 'sequences of *data* points' - and then those need to be translated into 
> equivalent sets of *display* points (by either a plotting library, or by your 
> own code) to allow it to be displayed appropriately.
> 
> There are at least two possible plotting libraries that might do what you 
> want (or do something close enough that they could be useful). By 
> coincidence, they were both discussed at the San Jose LC conference in 
> 2019.If you have access to the video / papers from that you might already 
> have some of the info you need; I don't know if the conference papers are 
> ever put out for more general usage later.
> 
> Option A. Monte described a wrapper for the JSPlot library. It's a very 
> powerful library capable of many kinds of graphs / plots, and very quick and 
> capable. The most obvious downside is that it needs to be used within a 
> browser widget - but well worth looking at it if you can.
> 
> Option B. I did a library called "GraphMaker" - a pure-Livecode plotting 
> library. It is (I think) fairly easy to use - but that may not be the case 
> for someone else coming to it new. I know it can handle this case of 
> bifurcating plots (using multiple sequences of data points). The conference 
> slides were a decent, if very brief, introduction; the lengthier 
> documentation was, maybe, not quite complete. However, it does come with a 
> demo app that uses the library to draw a variety of graph types. Main 
> advantage is it's pure LC, and hopefully easy to use - both in understanding 
> and in ease of integration into an app (you just create a suitable group to 
> contain the graph, set its rect properly and pass in all the point data along 
> with various parameters.  It has nowhere near the coverage of different graph 
> types that JSPlot does - it's basically line, bar and scatter plots, with 
> primary X-axis, and can have shading, etc.
> 
> Option C. Roll your own.
> 
> I'd certainly suggest investigating the use of an existing library first. 
> There's quite a lot of effort needs to go into determining how to scale the 
> data to the space available, how to label the axes, how to add tick marks, 
> grid lines and (perhaps) multiple Y-axes. That stuff probably accounted for 
> 90% of the effort of creating the library.
> 
> If you'd like to try out my li

Re: Plotting Equations that Bifurcate

2020-10-30 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Lots of clever ideas here, Alex, but I think you’re missing the point of what I 
ultimately want to do. I'm building a plotting program for which I want to plot 
any equation including those that have multiple values of y for a given x. An 
equation might branch at any point and might even have multiple branches both 
of which are unknown before plotting. 

Of course, there’s always the possibility that I’m not fully comprehending your 
suggestions??? What does NB stand for? Are you suggesting creating a new 
polygon every time a branch is detected? That just might work?!

Roger


> On Oct 30, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 30/10/2020 22:40, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Let’s try this again after spellchecking:
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, yours is a good example of a bifurcated line. But now imagine producing 
>> this line programmatically with an equation that:
>> 
>> Produces a constant y value of 149 as x progresses from 35 to 235 (no 
>> problem)
>> Then produces 2 different but simultaneous values of y as x progresses from 
>> 235 to 335. This is the problem as you don’t want the end point of the 
>> separated lines to connect. If you place an empty line in the points after 
>> each iteration beyond x = 235 then you end up with the bifurcated lines 
>> being points rather than a solid line.
>> 
>> How do plotting programs handle this situation
> 
> 
> Here are two different ways you could do it.
> 
> 1. simple - assume there would (could) be two Y values for any x, and just 
> calculate two series, and combine them for output.
> 
> 2. harder - for each x value, keep track of the previous y value for each 
> series, and if necessary, put in a 'skip' plus new value plus skip ...
> 
> NB makes for a more complex polygon; each new x value after bifurcation 
> results in 5 lines added to the points.
> 
> on mouseup
>local tSeries1, tSeries2, thepoints
>if the shiftkey is down then
> 
>   -- the easy way - just allow for the possibility of two series of 
> points all along
>   repeat with i = 35 to 335
>  -- calculate series 1
>  if i < 235 then
> put i,249  after tSeries1
>  else
> put i, 249+(i-235)  after tSeries1
>  end if
>  -- calculate series 2
>  if i < 235 then
> -- do nothing - it's the same as series 1
>  else
> put i, 249+2*(i-235)  after tSeries2
>  end if
>   end repeat
> 
>   put tSeries1  & tSeries2 into thePoints
>   set the points of grc "X" to thePoints
>   set the foregroundColor of grc "X" to "blue"
>else
>   -- the harder way - multiple series ...
>   -- does each step for each series ... much more complex polygon, but ...
>   local t1, t2, tLast1, tLast2
>   repeat with i = 35 to 335
>  -- calculate values
>  if i < 235 then
> put 249 into t1
> put 249 into t2
>  else
> put 249+(i-235) into t1
> put 249+2*(i-235) into t2
>  end if
>  -- put in series 1
>  if tLast1 is not empty then
> put i-1, tLast1  & i, t1  after thePoints
>  end if
>  -- possibly put in series 2
>  if tLast1 <> tLast2 OR t1 <> t2 then
> put CR after thePoints -- blank skip over to series 2 value
> put i-1, tLast2  & i, t2  after thePoints
> put CR after thePoints -- blank skip back to series 1
>  end if
>  put t1 into tLast1
>  put t2 into tLast2
>   end repeat
>   set the points of grc "X" to thePoints
>   set the foregroundColor of grc "X" to "red"
>end if
> 
> end mouseup
> 
> 
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Re: Plotting Equations that Bifurcate

2020-10-30 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Let’s try this again after spellchecking:


Yes, yours is a good example of a bifurcated line. But now imagine producing 
this line programmatically with an equation that:

Produces a constant y value of 149 as x progresses from 35 to 235 (no problem)
Then produces 2 different but simultaneous values of y as x progresses from 235 
to 335. This is the problem as you don’t want the end point of the separated 
lines to connect. If you place an empty line in the points after each iteration 
beyond x = 235 then you end up with the bifurcated lines being points rather 
than a solid line.

How do plotting programs handle this situation

Sorry for my inattention!

Roger

> On Oct 30, 2020, at 3:33 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes, yours is a good example of a bifurcated line. But now imagine producing 
> this line programmatically with an equation that:
> 
> Produces a constant y value of 149 as x progresses from 35 to 235 (no problem)
> Then produces 2 different but simultaneous values of y as x progresses from 
> 235 to 335. This is the problem as you don’t want the end point of the 
> separated lines to connect. If you place an empty line in the points after 
> each iteration beyond x 235 then you end up with the bifurcated lines being 
> points rather than a solid line.
> 
> How to plotting programs handle this situation
> 
> Roger
> 
>> On Oct 30, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Craig newman via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi.
>> 
>> Aren't the points of your two bifurcated lines comprised of the endpoint of 
>> the "main" line, a comma, and then a line containing two new items? In other 
>> words, if your main line has the points:
>> 34,149
>> 235,149
>> 
>> then one of the bifurcated lines might have points, say:
>> 235,149
>> 335,249
>> 
>> and the other, say,
>> 235,149
>> 335,49
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode
>> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 3:58 PM
>> To: How to use LiveCode 
>> Cc: Dr. Hawkins 
>> Subject: Re: Plotting Equations that Bifurcate
>> 
>> bob bumbled,
>>> 
>>> Last time I plotted an equation while bifurcating, I was pretty drunk, and 
>>> don't remember much. 
>> 
>> 
>> I once wrote a program that compiled without error and executed on the very 
>> first try.
>> 
>> And, umm, the university would not have approved of what I consumed before I 
>> went to the computer lab . . .
>> 
>> It used random numbers to see how many landed in the circle, allowing it to 
>> compute pi as 3.2 . . .
>> 
>> [ulp]
>> 
>> — 
>> Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
>> The Hawkins Law Firm
>> 3430 E. Flamingo Rd.
>> Suite 232
>> Las Vegas, NV  89121
>> (702) 508-8462
>> 
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Re: Plotting Equations that Bifurcate

2020-10-30 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Yes, yours is a good example of a bifurcated line. But now imagine producing 
this line programmatically with an equation that:

Produces a constant y value of 149 as x progresses from 35 to 235 (no problem)
Then produces 2 different but simultaneous values of y as x progresses from 235 
to 335. This is the problem as you don’t want the end point of the separated 
lines to connect. If you place an empty line in the points after each iteration 
beyond x 235 then you end up with the bifurcated lines being points rather than 
a solid line.

How to plotting programs handle this situation

Roger

> On Oct 30, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Craig newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> Aren't the points of your two bifurcated lines comprised of the endpoint of 
> the "main" line, a comma, and then a line containing two new items? In other 
> words, if your main line has the points:
> 34,149
> 235,149
> 
> then one of the bifurcated lines might have points, say:
> 235,149
> 335,249
> 
> and the other, say,
> 235,149
> 335,49
> 
> Craig
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
> Of Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 3:58 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode 
> Cc: Dr. Hawkins 
> Subject: Re: Plotting Equations that Bifurcate
> 
> bob bumbled,
>> 
>> Last time I plotted an equation while bifurcating, I was pretty drunk, and 
>> don't remember much. 
> 
> 
> I once wrote a program that compiled without error and executed on the very 
> first try.
> 
> And, umm, the university would not have approved of what I consumed before I 
> went to the computer lab . . .
> 
> It used random numbers to see how many landed in the circle, allowing it to 
> compute pi as 3.2 . . .
> 
> [ulp]
> 
> — 
> Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> The Hawkins Law Firm
> 3430 E. Flamingo Rd.
> Suite 232
> Las Vegas, NV  89121
> (702) 508-8462
> 
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Re: Plotting Equations that Bifurcate

2020-10-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thank you, Alex. I am aware of the blank line causing a break, but I can’t seem 
to programmatically get it (or them) in the right place. I have a smooth solid 
line that splits in two, and I want to maintain solid lines after the split. I 
must have something screwy in code.

Roger

> On Oct 29, 2020, at 4:06 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> remember that a blank line in the 'points' (aka the vertexlist) is not drawn 
> - therefore you can put each of the branches as a subset of points, with a 
> blank in between
> 
> Alex.
> 
> e.g. two Y values for each X, in a single graphic ...
> 
> repeat with i = 1 to N
> put N,2*n  after t1
> put N,3*n  after t2
> end repeat
> set the points of grc "L1" to t1  & t2
> 
> 
> On 29/10/2020 22:03, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I am trying to plot an equation that bifurcates by setting the points of a 
>> polygon as I iterate the equation. But I can’t figure how to handle the 
>> bifurcation. Any help will be greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> Roger
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Plotting Equations that Bifurcate

2020-10-29 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I am trying to plot an equation that bifurcates by setting the points of a 
polygon as I iterate the equation. But I can’t figure how to handle the 
bifurcation. Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Roger
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Re: Persistant Insertion Point

2020-09-11 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thank you, Alex. That’s just what I need!

Roger

> On Sep 11, 2020, at 4:58 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> You can save the insertion point (i.e. the selectedchunk) when you leave the 
> second field, and then provide a handler to insert text at that saved point; 
> and of course call that handler when needed
> 
> e.g.   in your "second field, have
> 
>> local sChunk
>> on exitfield
>>put the selectedchunk into sChunk
>>put schunk  after msg
>> end exitfield
>> 
>> on closefield
>>put the selectedchunk into sChunk
>>put schunk  after msg
>> end closefield
>> 
>> on acceptText pText
>>do "put" && pText && "into" && sChunk
>>put "accepted" && schunk & Cr after msg
>> end acceptText
> and in the other field have something like
> 
>> ON selectionchanged
>>local tmp
>>put "here"  after msg
>>put the mousetext into tmp
>>dispatch "accepttext" to fld 2 with tmp
>>put "disp" && it && the result  after msg
>> end selectionchanged
> Alex.
> 
> On 12/09/2020 00:16, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have 2 fields, the first from which I take the mouseText, the second  into 
>> which I place that text. Trouble is, I want the placed text to be at the 
>> insertion point I had before clicking outside that field.
>> Can someone suggest a way to preserve the insertion point in a field as one 
>> clicks into another field?
>> 
>> I appreciate any help
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Persistant Insertion Point

2020-09-11 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I have 2 fields, the first from which I take the mouseText, the second  into 
which I place that text. Trouble is, I want the placed text to be at the 
insertion point I had before clicking outside that field. 
Can someone suggest a way to preserve the insertion point in a field as one 
clicks into another field?

I appreciate any help
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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

2020-09-07 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
That’s why I said most!

> On Sep 7, 2020, at 12:05 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Except Black
> 
> ... and white. 
> 
> 
>> On 7 Sep 2020, at 18:16, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> … and reminding me yet again that most things are never black or white!
> 
> 
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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

2020-09-07 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
… and reminding me yet again that most things are never black or white!

> On Sep 7, 2020, at 2:04 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sure. Draw a circle on a 10x10, 20x20, 100x100, etc grid. Only Whole pixels 
> get counted (Pass or 1 in digital binary). Depending on the methodology, 
> either 1) only those within the circle line (complete) or 2) those on the 
> line itself  and within it (incomplete). 
> 
> In your example, a 200x200 circle has a resolution where it’s practically 
> negligible from regular mathematics. However, the resolution at 100x100 and 
> lower starts to flat wildly away from it. If you are measuring using 
> collision and it’s accounting for antialiased pixels it can become even more 
> diverse from standard math as it does not ‘see’ it in percentages of visible, 
> only on or off. 
> 
> So, the difference between measuring only inside of a 200x200 and outside of 
> the 100x100 will throw off considerably any ordinary calculations you might 
> expect. Even a 400x400 PixelWise ‘circle’. 
> 
> Look up Gauss’ Circle Problem. The same chap we get the name for Gaussian 
> blur from. 
> 
>> On 7 Sep 2020, at 05:26, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m sorry, I don’t understand your terminology. Could you please elaborate? 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Sep 6, 2020, at 10:54 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Pixel math:
>>> 
>>> Counting incomplete pixels within a circle outline (%Pass)(%Fail):
>>> 10x10 = 88 (88%)(12%)
>>> 20x20 = 344 (86%)(14%)
>>> 100x100 = 8012 (80%)(20%)
>>> 
>>> Counting complete pixels:
>>> 10x10 = 48 (48%)(52%)
>>> 20x20 = 276 (69%)(31%)
>>> 100x100 = 7444 (74.4%)(26%)
>>> 
>>> Your conclusion here: _
>>> 
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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

2020-09-07 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Thank you! This is excellent information for me to keep in mind. And a special 
thanks for pointing me to the Gauss Circle Problem.

Roger



> On Sep 7, 2020, at 2:04 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sure. Draw a circle on a 10x10, 20x20, 100x100, etc grid. Only Whole pixels 
> get counted (Pass or 1 in digital binary). Depending on the methodology, 
> either 1) only those within the circle line (complete) or 2) those on the 
> line itself  and within it (incomplete). 
> 
> In your example, a 200x200 circle has a resolution where it’s practically 
> negligible from regular mathematics. However, the resolution at 100x100 and 
> lower starts to flat wildly away from it. If you are measuring using 
> collision and it’s accounting for antialiased pixels it can become even more 
> diverse from standard math as it does not ‘see’ it in percentages of visible, 
> only on or off. 
> 
> So, the difference between measuring only inside of a 200x200 and outside of 
> the 100x100 will throw off considerably any ordinary calculations you might 
> expect. Even a 400x400 PixelWise ‘circle’. 
> 
> Look up Gauss’ Circle Problem. The same chap we get the name for Gaussian 
> blur from. 
> 
>> On 7 Sep 2020, at 05:26, Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m sorry, I don’t understand your terminology. Could you please elaborate? 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On Sep 6, 2020, at 10:54 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Pixel math:
>>> 
>>> Counting incomplete pixels within a circle outline (%Pass)(%Fail):
>>> 10x10 = 88 (88%)(12%)
>>> 20x20 = 344 (86%)(14%)
>>> 100x100 = 8012 (80%)(20%)
>>> 
>>> Counting complete pixels:
>>> 10x10 = 48 (48%)(52%)
>>> 20x20 = 276 (69%)(31%)
>>> 100x100 = 7444 (74.4%)(26%)
>>> 
>>> Your conclusion here: _
>>> 
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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

2020-09-06 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I’m sorry, I don’t understand your terminology. Could you please elaborate? 

Thanks,
Roger

> On Sep 6, 2020, at 10:54 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Pixel math:
> 
> Counting incomplete pixels within a circle outline (%Pass)(%Fail):
> 10x10 = 88 (88%)(12%)
> 20x20 = 344 (86%)(14%)
> 100x100 = 8012 (80%)(20%)
> 
> Counting complete pixels:
> 10x10 = 48 (48%)(52%)
> 20x20 = 276 (69%)(31%)
> 100x100 = 7444 (74.4%)(26%)
> 
> Your conclusion here: _
> 
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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

2020-09-05 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
I’m having trouble understanding this last message or how you got these 
results, but I guess you’re right about this topic being somewhat straying from 
LC. 
So, I want to say I really appreciate your help and ideas. I will continue to 
attempt to push back the frontiers of my ignorance.

Thanks and cheers,
Roger 

> On Sep 5, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> f you divide the circle in four equal parts using two diagonal lines, you 
> find that 25 percent of all points have a x-value of more than 70 percent of 
> the radius. Using 200 as radius, 25% of all points x > 141,42 (= 
> cos(45°)*200). But using your method only 60/400 = 15% of points have value x 
> greater than 141,42. So there ecertainly is a bias towards points in the 
> upper and lower quarter.
> 
> I have no idea why this bias isn't influencing your results. Maybe because 
> the second point is also influenced by this bias. But how?
> 
> I wonder whether it's okay to keep this discussion on the list. We are 
> straying far from matters LiveCode.

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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

2020-09-05 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
Aha, in prepping my code to send to you, I found an error! Now the Cartesian 
Coord code is consistent with the Polar Coord code producing a ratio of about 
⅓. Here is the code:

on mouseDown

getStuff

end mouseDown


local tR, tX0, tY0, txl, tX1, tY1, tconstL, tTotCount, tL, tLongCount, tLocA, 
tLocB


on getStuff

put item 1 of the loc of grc OuterCircle into tX0

put item 2 of the loc of grc OuterCircle into tY0

put the width of grc OuterCircle/2 into tR

put the left of grc outerCircle into tXl

put 2*tR*cos(Pi/6) into tconstL

put "" into tTotCount

put "" into tLongCount

emptyFlds

end getStuff


on mouseUp

lock screen

repeat 1

add 1 to tTotCount

PickApointA

PickApointB

set the points of grc theChord to tLocA, tLocB

GetLength tLocA, tLocB

end repeat

put tTotCount into fld "totcountFld"

put tLongCount/tTotCount into fld "RatioFld"

unlock screen

end mouseUp


on PickApointA

set the numberFormat to "#."

put tXl + random(400) into X

put sqrt(tR^2 - (X-tX0)^2) - tY0 into y

get random(2)

if it is 1 then put x, + y+2*tY0 into tLocA

else put x, - y into tLocA

end PickApointA


on PickApointB

set the numberFormat to "#."

put tXl + random(400) into X

put sqrt(tR^2 - (X-tX0)^2) - tY0 into y

get random(2)

if it is 1 then put x, + y+2*tY0 into tLocB

else put x, - y into tLocB

end PickApointB


on GetLength pLocA, pLocB

put item 1 of pLocA into PX1

put item 2 of pLocA into Py1

put item 1 of pLocB into PX2

put item 2 of pLocB into Py2

set the numberFormat to "#.0"

put (pX2- pX1)^2 + (pY2- pY1)^2 into Lsquared

put Sqrt(Lsquared) into tL

if tL > tconstL then add 1 to tLongCount ---

put tLongCount into fld "LongCountFld"

end GetLength


Thanks,
Roger


> On Sep 5, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> „I am known for making many more mistakes than not!“
> Aren‘t we all?
> I guess using Cartesian coordinates for choosing points on a circle could 
> produce some bias, though I have no clear idea how.
> So, what is your code?
> 
> Thomas
> 
>> Am 05.09.2020 um 19:15 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> I am known for making many more mistakes than not!
> 
> 
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Re: Contesting for Idiot du Jour

2020-09-05 Thread Roger Guay via use-livecode
You’re absolutely right. I should have been more careful in describing what I 
did:

In addition to your method, using polar coordinates, which results in a ratio 
of ⅓, I also did a random selection of 2 points on the circle in cartesian 
coordinates which produces the ½. Very curious! I am now wondering if I did the 
math right? I am known for making many more mistakes than not!

Roger



> On Sep 5, 2020, at 9:34 AM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> That is strange. Choosing two points „at random“ should give a ratio of 1/3. 
> 
> At least if you choose them by generating two random numbers between 0 and 
> 360 and use this numbers as angles between a fixed line connecting  the 
> centre (e.g. the x-axis) and the line between the centre and the chosen 
> point. 
> Something like (without access to any LiveCode)
> put Random(360) *pi / 180 into angle1. 
> put sin (angle1) * radius into p1y
> put cos (angle1) * radius into p1x
> That’s the method I would choose. 
> How do you choose the two points?
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 05.09.2020 um 17:11 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> My intent was not to suggest that math is “really’ broken in the Bertrand 
>> Paradox, but it did make me wonder what is going on. 
>> Enter LC. I built a simulation of your description where each of two points 
>> on a circle are randomly chosen. This kind of chord generation is 
>> consistently producing a ratio of about ½ which, of course, disagrees with 2 
>> of the methods in the BP, but is close to one of them. 
>> I don’t mean to promote controversy here . . . I am just having fun playing 
>> with this and wondering what is indeed going on???
>> Thanks for playing, Thomas.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>>>> On Sep 5, 2020, at 12:24 AM, Thomas von Fintel via use-livecode 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>> Having had no contact with Bertrand Paradox except reading the Wikipedia 
>>> entries in English and German, my impression is that this is not a case of 
>>> broken math but a case of an ill-defined problem.
>>> Saying that a chord of a circle is chosen at random seems to imply that all 
>>> possible chords are chosen with the same probability. My interpretation 
>>> would be that all points on the circle have the same probability and also 
>>> every combination of two points have the same probability of being chosen. 
>>> Not all methods proposed by Bertrand fulfil this requirement.
>>> My interpretation may be wrong. But the fact that you need an 
>>> interpretation shows that a problem like this needs more clarification.
>>> Thomas
>>>>> Am 05.09.2020 um 04:40 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode 
>>>>> :
>>>> Bertrand Paradox
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