Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Only in hushed whispers. 

Bob S


> On Feb 27, 2017, at 01:40 , Simon Knight via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the decode - I did wonder why the forerunner of the CIA was being 
> talked about ;-)
> 
> OSS - Office of Strategic Services
> 
> Simon
> 
> Simon Knight


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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Well in this context, Sardines is definitely out. 

Bob S


> On Feb 26, 2017, at 05:24 , Simon Knight via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I try and follow these threads but please take care with the use of 
> abbreviations / acronyms.  Some I’ve worked out others I’ve no idea : OSS 
> open source S?

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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Atom is nice, true, but I had a license for ST2 from 2014 and it worked!  plus 
"multiple cursors" and related multi-line handling  is awesome, I not seeing 
that in 
Atom (maybe there is a package for that…)  but, keep us posted on a syntax 
package updates.


On 2/28/17, 4:18 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Kerner via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

ST3 is "annoy ware" - it will bug you to register and pay, but you don't
have to.
I've been working on the indent rules, and have discovered that Atom is
almost like a prettier version of ST3.  After I have this working in ST3,
I'm going to go back to Atom and fix them over there.  Even the python
script that Trevor wrote to connect ST3-saves to LC seems to be portable.
I haven't had a look at Notepad++ or BBE, yet, to see what can/has to be
done to make all of this work in those environments.



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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

ST3 is "annoy ware" - it will bug you to register and pay, but you don't
have to.
I've been working on the indent rules, and have discovered that Atom is
almost like a prettier version of ST3.  After I have this working in ST3,
I'm going to go back to Atom and fix them over there.  Even the python
script that Trevor wrote to connect ST3-saves to LC seems to be portable.
I haven't had a look at Notepad++ or BBE, yet, to see what can/has to be
done to make all of this work in those environments.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
use-livecode  wrote:

> Thanks for the thorough reply Trevor.
>
> I left Sublime Text when it was "2" years ago…thinking it was an EOL'd
> tool but here you say "Sublime Text 3"
>
> Oh… sweet, my Sublime Text 2 license works!
>
> OK I'll try it..since Atom and Visual Studio still don't quite gel for my
> work flow…
>
>
> On 2/23/17, 4:33 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Trevor DeVore via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> Overall I feel like Sublime Text reduces friction while I’m working. I
> feel
> like I can work much faster.
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Thanks for the thorough reply Trevor. 

I left Sublime Text when it was "2" years ago…thinking it was an EOL'd tool but 
here you say "Sublime Text 3"

Oh… sweet, my Sublime Text 2 license works!

OK I'll try it..since Atom and Visual Studio still don't quite gel for my work 
flow… 


On 2/23/17, 4:33 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Trevor DeVore via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

Overall I feel like Sublime Text reduces friction while I’m working. I feel
like I can work much faster.

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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Simon Knight via use-livecode]

Hi, it was the comment by Dr. Hawkins : "as well
as the inability to actually put a pdf or eps on a card (just a bitmap of
it won't do); livecode just doesn't seem to me doing towards such a
direction.

Sorry for causing confusion.




> On 27 Feb 2017, at 16:10, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't understand the last question, on PDF's
> 
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 4:47 AM, Simon Knight via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I’m curious how do the likes of Swift, C# store details of their GUI ?
>> 
>> As to display of PDF what is it you want to do that can’t be achieved
>> using the browser ?
>> 
>> best wishes
>> Simon
>> 
>> Simon Knight
>> s...@anvic.net
>> Telephone : 01427 325911
>> Mobile : 07963 077071
>> Skype : jtidsskids
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 26 Feb 2017, at 21:06, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dr. Hawkins wrote:
>>> 
 More commonly, until and unless livecode can save such that such
 standard tools or comparable can be applied, multi-person development
 will remain a fantasy and/or novelty.
>>> 
>>> And yet here we are, using an IDE written in LiveCode by a team
>> comprised of dozens of company and community developers working together on
>> a single code base.
>>> 
>>> 
 I've come to accept that the next major rewrite of my software is
 going to have to be in something else (Swift?) so that I can add
 developers, as well as the inability to actually put a pdf or eps
 on a card (just a bitmap of it won't do); livecode just doesn't
 seem to me doing towards such a direction.
>>> 
>>> The Business Edition has already gone that direction:
>>> https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pdf-viewer/
>>> 
>>> Probably at least an order of magnitude cheaper to upgrade to Business
>> than to rewrite the whole thing in Swift from scratch.  And with LC you get
>> a cross-platform solution, while even if you did find a GUI framework for
>> Swift for Windows you'd likely be writing a lot of forked code for each
>> platform.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>> 
>>> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> ___
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>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I don't understand the last question, on PDF's

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 4:47 AM, Simon Knight via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I’m curious how do the likes of Swift, C# store details of their GUI ?
>
> As to display of PDF what is it you want to do that can’t be achieved
> using the browser ?
>
> best wishes
> Simon
>
> Simon Knight
> s...@anvic.net
> Telephone : 01427 325911
> Mobile : 07963 077071
> Skype : jtidsskids
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 26 Feb 2017, at 21:06, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dr. Hawkins wrote:
> >
> > > More commonly, until and unless livecode can save such that such
> > > standard tools or comparable can be applied, multi-person development
> > > will remain a fantasy and/or novelty.
> >
> > And yet here we are, using an IDE written in LiveCode by a team
> comprised of dozens of company and community developers working together on
> a single code base.
> >
> >
> > > I've come to accept that the next major rewrite of my software is
> > > going to have to be in something else (Swift?) so that I can add
> > > developers, as well as the inability to actually put a pdf or eps
> > > on a card (just a bitmap of it won't do); livecode just doesn't
> > > seem to me doing towards such a direction.
> >
> > The Business Edition has already gone that direction:
> > https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pdf-viewer/
> >
> > Probably at least an order of magnitude cheaper to upgrade to Business
> than to rewrite the whole thing in Swift from scratch.  And with LC you get
> a cross-platform solution, while even if you did find a GUI framework for
> Swift for Windows you'd likely be writing a lot of forked code for each
> platform.
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> > Fourth World Systems
> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> > 
> > ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Simon Knight via use-livecode]

I’m curious how do the likes of Swift, C# store details of their GUI ?

As to display of PDF what is it you want to do that can’t be achieved using the 
browser ?

best wishes
Simon

Simon Knight
s...@anvic.net
Telephone : 01427 325911
Mobile : 07963 077071
Skype : jtidsskids





> On 26 Feb 2017, at 21:06, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dr. Hawkins wrote:
> 
> > More commonly, until and unless livecode can save such that such
> > standard tools or comparable can be applied, multi-person development
> > will remain a fantasy and/or novelty.
> 
> And yet here we are, using an IDE written in LiveCode by a team comprised of 
> dozens of company and community developers working together on a single code 
> base.
> 
> 
> > I've come to accept that the next major rewrite of my software is
> > going to have to be in something else (Swift?) so that I can add
> > developers, as well as the inability to actually put a pdf or eps
> > on a card (just a bitmap of it won't do); livecode just doesn't
> > seem to me doing towards such a direction.
> 
> The Business Edition has already gone that direction:
> https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pdf-viewer/
> 
> Probably at least an order of magnitude cheaper to upgrade to Business than 
> to rewrite the whole thing in Swift from scratch.  And with LC you get a 
> cross-platform solution, while even if you did find a GUI framework for Swift 
> for Windows you'd likely be writing a lot of forked code for each platform.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> ___
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> preferences:
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Simon Knight via use-livecode]

Thanks for the decode - I did wonder why the forerunner of the CIA was being 
talked about ;-)

OSS - Office of Strategic Services

Simon

Simon Knight
s...@anvic.net
Telephone : 01427 325911
Mobile : 07963 077071
Skype : jtidsskids





> On 26 Feb 2017, at 13:40, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Abbreviations that come up in this thread:
> LC - livecode
> SE - script editor
> IDE - Integrated Development Environment
> OSS - open source software
> SOS - script-only stack
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Simon Knight via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi, as someone who came to Livecode attracted by the hook that it could be
>> used by Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) I try and follow these threads but
>> please take care with the use of abbreviations / acronyms.  Some I’ve
>> worked out others I’ve no idea : OSS open source S?, SOS ??? or
>> generally  morse code dot dot dot dash dash dash dot dot dot “Save Our
>> Souls”  however it doesn’t read well below ;-)
>> 
>> My concern with external editors is based on my use of the tRev editor in
>> the past, which while having some nice features often lost the edits I
>> made.  I have no idea how it communicated with the IDE.
>> 
>> I agree with your comments re GIT.  As a one man band it seems like over
>> kill in my situation.  So I am creating an AutoSave plugin that makes a
>> backup every few minutes if the scripts have been modified (it has no
>> knowledge of changes to the UI).  It also produces a simple log file that
>> describes the delta between backups.  I am happy to share if it is of any
>> interest.
>> 
>> best wishes
>> 
>> Skids
>> 
>> Simon Knight
>> s...@anvic.net
>> Telephone : 01427 325911
>> Mobile : 07963 077071
>> Skype : jtidsskids
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 26 Feb 2017, at 01:05, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't think SOS is the main future.  I think it gives us another
>> option.
>>> Long before someone learns that technique, they should have the
>> traditional
>>> method down, cold, and understand why they would use one or the other.
>> SOS
>>> definitely make working on the IDE easier, and they make complicated
>>> projects easier, but I wouldn't even think of teaching someone who isn't
>>> already a LC expert about doing it this way.
>>> 
>>> The one thing to remember about the SOS technique is that Git isn't the
>>> only option.  Git is hard core, and it is hard.  I still don't like it,
>> but
>>> I am trying to tolerate it.  If you're using any cloud syncing tool that
>>> can keep track of versions (Office365, Gsuite, and Dropbox come to mind),
>>> you have simple version control/rollbacks/archiving/etc.
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> ___
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>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Dr. Hawkins wrote:

> More commonly, until and unless livecode can save such that such
> standard tools or comparable can be applied, multi-person development
> will remain a fantasy and/or novelty.

And yet here we are, using an IDE written in LiveCode by a team 
comprised of dozens of company and community developers working together 
on a single code base.



> I've come to accept that the next major rewrite of my software is
> going to have to be in something else (Swift?) so that I can add
> developers, as well as the inability to actually put a pdf or eps
> on a card (just a bitmap of it won't do); livecode just doesn't
> seem to me doing towards such a direction.

The Business Edition has already gone that direction:
https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pdf-viewer/

Probably at least an order of magnitude cheaper to upgrade to Business 
than to rewrite the whole thing in Swift from scratch.  And with LC you 
get a cross-platform solution, while even if you did find a GUI 
framework for Swift for Windows you'd likely be writing a lot of forked 
code for each platform.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode]

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I don't think SOS is the main future.  I think it gives us another option.


I don't think it will *ever* be a full-fledged option until stacks
themselves can be saved as text files for use with standard revision
control and patching.  The most it can due is take a chink out of the
corner.

And on the value of those . . .

As I was nearing the end of my dissertation, and had a visiting spot for
the following year lined up, with a $10k difference between waiting for
paperwork (assistant prof) and ABD (instructor), my wife had to go to
California to help her sister's family during her first cancer.  I had to
drive out to pick them up, and lost my transmission in Omaha (really,  It
*does* happen outside of country songs).   I had a laptop  with an older
version of my dissertation with me, and hard-copy of the current version
with advisor comments (between two majors in my Ph.D. and working outside
the departments, I had three advisors).  Because (and only because) LyX and
LaTeX are text format, I was able to simply edit the obsolete copy and use
diff to make a comparison, and apply patch to the most recent copy, and
actually get two days work out of the two days I spent stranded.

More commonly, until and unless livecode can save such that such standard
tools or comparable can be applied, multi-person development will remain a
fantasy and/or novelty.

I've come to accept that the next major rewrite of my software is going to
have to be in something else (Swift?) so that I can add developers, as well
as the inability to actually put a pdf or eps on a card (just a bitmap of
it won't do); livecode just doesn't seem to me doing towards such a
direction.

Yes, I understand the desire to stay true to the hypercard model, but
as-is, I don't see livecode as a viable solution to a project larger than
the indy limits.


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Abbreviations that come up in this thread:
LC - livecode
SE - script editor
IDE - Integrated Development Environment
OSS - open source software
SOS - script-only stack


On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Simon Knight via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi, as someone who came to Livecode attracted by the hook that it could be
> used by Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) I try and follow these threads but
> please take care with the use of abbreviations / acronyms.  Some I’ve
> worked out others I’ve no idea : OSS open source S?, SOS ??? or
> generally  morse code dot dot dot dash dash dash dot dot dot “Save Our
> Souls”  however it doesn’t read well below ;-)
>
> My concern with external editors is based on my use of the tRev editor in
> the past, which while having some nice features often lost the edits I
> made.  I have no idea how it communicated with the IDE.
>
> I agree with your comments re GIT.  As a one man band it seems like over
> kill in my situation.  So I am creating an AutoSave plugin that makes a
> backup every few minutes if the scripts have been modified (it has no
> knowledge of changes to the UI).  It also produces a simple log file that
> describes the delta between backups.  I am happy to share if it is of any
> interest.
>
> best wishes
>
> Skids
>
> Simon Knight
> s...@anvic.net
> Telephone : 01427 325911
> Mobile : 07963 077071
> Skype : jtidsskids
>
>
>
> > On 26 Feb 2017, at 01:05, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think SOS is the main future.  I think it gives us another
> option.
> > Long before someone learns that technique, they should have the
> traditional
> > method down, cold, and understand why they would use one or the other.
> SOS
> > definitely make working on the IDE easier, and they make complicated
> > projects easier, but I wouldn't even think of teaching someone who isn't
> > already a LC expert about doing it this way.
> >
> > The one thing to remember about the SOS technique is that Git isn't the
> > only option.  Git is hard core, and it is hard.  I still don't like it,
> but
> > I am trying to tolerate it.  If you're using any cloud syncing tool that
> > can keep track of versions (Office365, Gsuite, and Dropbox come to mind),
> > you have simple version control/rollbacks/archiving/etc.
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Simon Knight via use-livecode]

Hi, as someone who came to Livecode attracted by the hook that it could be used 
by Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) I try and follow these threads but please take 
care with the use of abbreviations / acronyms.  Some I’ve worked out others 
I’ve no idea : OSS open source S?, SOS ??? or generally  morse code dot dot 
dot dash dash dash dot dot dot “Save Our Souls”  however it doesn’t read well 
below ;-) 

My concern with external editors is based on my use of the tRev editor in the 
past, which while having some nice features often lost the edits I made.  I 
have no idea how it communicated with the IDE.

I agree with your comments re GIT.  As a one man band it seems like over kill 
in my situation.  So I am creating an AutoSave plugin that makes a backup every 
few minutes if the scripts have been modified (it has no knowledge of changes 
to the UI).  It also produces a simple log file that describes the delta 
between backups.  I am happy to share if it is of any interest.

best wishes

Skids

Simon Knight
s...@anvic.net
Telephone : 01427 325911
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> On 26 Feb 2017, at 01:05, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't think SOS is the main future.  I think it gives us another option.
> Long before someone learns that technique, they should have the traditional
> method down, cold, and understand why they would use one or the other.  SOS
> definitely make working on the IDE easier, and they make complicated
> projects easier, but I wouldn't even think of teaching someone who isn't
> already a LC expert about doing it this way.
> 
> The one thing to remember about the SOS technique is that Git isn't the
> only option.  Git is hard core, and it is hard.  I still don't like it, but
> I am trying to tolerate it.  If you're using any cloud syncing tool that
> can keep track of versions (Office365, Gsuite, and Dropbox come to mind),
> you have simple version control/rollbacks/archiving/etc.
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I don't think SOS is the main future.  I think it gives us another option.
Long before someone learns that technique, they should have the traditional
method down, cold, and understand why they would use one or the other.  SOS
definitely make working on the IDE easier, and they make complicated
projects easier, but I wouldn't even think of teaching someone who isn't
already a LC expert about doing it this way.

The one thing to remember about the SOS technique is that Git isn't the
only option.  Git is hard core, and it is hard.  I still don't like it, but
I am trying to tolerate it.  If you're using any cloud syncing tool that
can keep track of versions (Office365, Gsuite, and Dropbox come to mind),
you have simple version control/rollbacks/archiving/etc.
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

There seems to be more stack-based collaboration over in the forums, since
you can attach files.  GIT seems overkill for many of the smaller tasks,
and way more complicated too.  At least if you've never participated in
team-based coding.  Balls are rolling, but rolling in different
directions.  I believe one just rolled under the couch.  lol


On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 6:32 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> No, what I meant was that we as a group have been really slow to get the
> ball and start running.  We're just start to get moving, but I'm hoping
> that with a few of these little projects started we're picking it up...
>
> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Roger Eller via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Roger Eller <
> roger.e.el...@sealedair.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 2017 9:21 AM, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > All I did was plant the thought, and Bernd went nuts with it.
> Welcome
> > to
> > > > management.  Where's my big paycheck and pin stripes?
> > > > Anyway, we have been raly slow as a
> > > > community picking up the ball and running with it since LC went OSS.
> > > Every
> > > > time we start going after ANYTHING in LC it's a plus, so I'm glad the
> > > > dictionary is getting attention.
> > >
> > > I supported LC OSS when it was in kickstarter with my personal $$$.
> And
> > > it was the largest sum that I personally have ever given toward any
> > cause.
> > > It was very difficult for me because I don't sell any apps.  My
> > investment
> > > was 1) because I believe in the potential of LC to empower
> > non-programmers
> > > to create, 2) to open the doors for OSS programmers to improve the
> > product
> > > for everyone,  3) to reap the reward of lifetime LC upgrades so I can
> > > continue to enjoy creating without having to learn C or java, or
> whatever
> > > else.  I have always loved the idea that our interface was created in
> its
> > > own language. I see the advantages for the "team" to remove some
> burdens,
> > > but at the same time it makes me feel like something special is being
> > > abandoned.  But I'm not selling apps, so disregard me.
> > >
> > > ~Roger
> > >
> > Just to clarify, I am thrilled that there are people in the community
> that
> > have both the time and the skills to contribute.  Others like myself have
> > also contributed in varying degrees monetarily, but may or may not do
> more
> > beyond that. That might be considered "reealy sloow at picking up
> > the ball", but both types of contributions make OSS work at the end of
> the
> > day.
> >
> > I love Bernd's dictionary stack, by the way.  Everything he touches is
> > outstanding!
> >
> > ~Roger
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

No, what I meant was that we as a group have been really slow to get the
ball and start running.  We're just start to get moving, but I'm hoping
that with a few of these little projects started we're picking it up...

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Roger Eller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Roger Eller  >
> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 25, 2017 9:21 AM, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > All I did was plant the thought, and Bernd went nuts with it.  Welcome
> to
> > > management.  Where's my big paycheck and pin stripes?
> > > Anyway, we have been raly slow as a
> > > community picking up the ball and running with it since LC went OSS.
> > Every
> > > time we start going after ANYTHING in LC it's a plus, so I'm glad the
> > > dictionary is getting attention.
> >
> > I supported LC OSS when it was in kickstarter with my personal $$$.  And
> > it was the largest sum that I personally have ever given toward any
> cause.
> > It was very difficult for me because I don't sell any apps.  My
> investment
> > was 1) because I believe in the potential of LC to empower
> non-programmers
> > to create, 2) to open the doors for OSS programmers to improve the
> product
> > for everyone,  3) to reap the reward of lifetime LC upgrades so I can
> > continue to enjoy creating without having to learn C or java, or whatever
> > else.  I have always loved the idea that our interface was created in its
> > own language. I see the advantages for the "team" to remove some burdens,
> > but at the same time it makes me feel like something special is being
> > abandoned.  But I'm not selling apps, so disregard me.
> >
> > ~Roger
> >
> Just to clarify, I am thrilled that there are people in the community that
> have both the time and the skills to contribute.  Others like myself have
> also contributed in varying degrees monetarily, but may or may not do more
> beyond that. That might be considered "reealy sloow at picking up
> the ball", but both types of contributions make OSS work at the end of the
> day.
>
> I love Bernd's dictionary stack, by the way.  Everything he touches is
> outstanding!
>
> ~Roger
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Roger Eller 
wrote:

> On Feb 25, 2017 9:21 AM, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > All I did was plant the thought, and Bernd went nuts with it.  Welcome to
> > management.  Where's my big paycheck and pin stripes?
> > Anyway, we have been raly slow as a
> > community picking up the ball and running with it since LC went OSS.
> Every
> > time we start going after ANYTHING in LC it's a plus, so I'm glad the
> > dictionary is getting attention.
>
> I supported LC OSS when it was in kickstarter with my personal $$$.  And
> it was the largest sum that I personally have ever given toward any cause.
> It was very difficult for me because I don't sell any apps.  My investment
> was 1) because I believe in the potential of LC to empower non-programmers
> to create, 2) to open the doors for OSS programmers to improve the product
> for everyone,  3) to reap the reward of lifetime LC upgrades so I can
> continue to enjoy creating without having to learn C or java, or whatever
> else.  I have always loved the idea that our interface was created in its
> own language. I see the advantages for the "team" to remove some burdens,
> but at the same time it makes me feel like something special is being
> abandoned.  But I'm not selling apps, so disregard me.
>
> ~Roger
>
Just to clarify, I am thrilled that there are people in the community that
have both the time and the skills to contribute.  Others like myself have
also contributed in varying degrees monetarily, but may or may not do more
beyond that. That might be considered "reealy sloow at picking up
the ball", but both types of contributions make OSS work at the end of the
day.

I love Bernd's dictionary stack, by the way.  Everything he touches is
outstanding!

~Roger
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

What do you mean, Roger?

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On Feb 25, 2017 9:21 AM, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > All I did was plant the thought, and Bernd went nuts with it.  Welcome to
> > management.  Where's my big paycheck and pin stripes?
> > Anyway, we have been raly slow as a
> > community picking up the ball and running with it since LC went OSS.
> Every
> > time we start going after ANYTHING in LC it's a plus, so I'm glad the
> > dictionary is getting attention.
>
> I supported LC OSS when it was in kickstarter with my personal $$$.  And it
> was the largest sum that I personally have ever given toward any cause.  It
> was very difficult for me because I don't sell any apps.  My investment was
> 1) because I believe in the potential of LC to empower non-programmers to
> create, 2) to open the doors for OSS programmers to improve the product for
> everyone,  3) to reap the reward of lifetime LC upgrades so I can continue
> to enjoy creating without having to learn C or java, or whatever else.  I
> have always loved the idea that our interface was created in its own
> language. I see the advantages for the "team" to remove some burdens, but
> at the same time it makes me feel like something special is being
> abandoned.  But I'm not selling apps, so disregard me.
>
> ~Roger
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

On Feb 25, 2017 9:21 AM, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> All I did was plant the thought, and Bernd went nuts with it.  Welcome to
> management.  Where's my big paycheck and pin stripes?
> Anyway, we have been raly slow as a
> community picking up the ball and running with it since LC went OSS.
Every
> time we start going after ANYTHING in LC it's a plus, so I'm glad the
> dictionary is getting attention.

I supported LC OSS when it was in kickstarter with my personal $$$.  And it
was the largest sum that I personally have ever given toward any cause.  It
was very difficult for me because I don't sell any apps.  My investment was
1) because I believe in the potential of LC to empower non-programmers to
create, 2) to open the doors for OSS programmers to improve the product for
everyone,  3) to reap the reward of lifetime LC upgrades so I can continue
to enjoy creating without having to learn C or java, or whatever else.  I
have always loved the idea that our interface was created in its own
language. I see the advantages for the "team" to remove some burdens, but
at the same time it makes me feel like something special is being
abandoned.  But I'm not selling apps, so disregard me.

~Roger
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

All I did was plant the thought, and Bernd went nuts with it.  Welcome to
management.  Where's my big paycheck and pin stripes?
Anyway, we have been raly slow as a
community picking up the ball and running with it since LC went OSS.  Every
time we start going after ANYTHING in LC it's a plus, so I'm glad the
dictionary is getting attention.  I have a list of other LC components that
I want to have fixed, but we will wait just a little longer, before getting
someone to do the next one.

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 1:00 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Mike Kerner wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >
> >> Mike Kerner wrote:
> >>
> >> > 4) Why is having an integrated editor important, if your edits made
> >> > via an external editor take effect immediately?  If we didn't need
> >> > the L server hack to get live edits, we could use any editor.
> >>
> >> What is "the L server hack", and what is the threshold of acceptable
> >> immediacy?
> >
> > Trevor, in his (L)evure framework (which is what brought the original
> > topic up that inspired this thread) developed a way to get the LC IDE
> > to act as a server/listener and ST to broadcast every time a
> > .livecodescript file is edited.  LC then unloads and reloads the .lcs
> > file (whether it is a front or backscript, library, behavior, etc.),
> > causing it to be updated live, as if it had been edited in the LC SE.
>
> Thanks. I has misread "hack" as "workaround".
>
> Sockets are of course are a very common method for processes to
> communicate, and are generally pretty fast, esp. on the local machine.
>
> If you've seen delays I'll bet they can be addressed.
>
> The MC IDE used to have built-in support for external editors since the
> olden days, and a more flexible socket-based method is even better.
>
> So far this thought experiment seems favorable to all who've responded.
> For those who prefer a LiveCode-based editor, I can envision are project
> very much like the one you started with the Dictionary, leaving scripted
> components in the hands of capable scripters in the community so the engine
> team could theoretically be freed up to do the things only they can do.
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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> subscription preferences:
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mike Kerner wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Mike Kerner wrote:
>>
>> > 4) Why is having an integrated editor important, if your edits made
>> > via an external editor take effect immediately?  If we didn't need
>> > the L server hack to get live edits, we could use any editor.
>>
>> What is "the L server hack", and what is the threshold of acceptable
>> immediacy?
>
> Trevor, in his (L)evure framework (which is what brought the original
> topic up that inspired this thread) developed a way to get the LC IDE
> to act as a server/listener and ST to broadcast every time a
> .livecodescript file is edited.  LC then unloads and reloads the .lcs
> file (whether it is a front or backscript, library, behavior, etc.),
> causing it to be updated live, as if it had been edited in the LC SE.

Thanks. I has misread "hack" as "workaround".

Sockets are of course are a very common method for processes to 
communicate, and are generally pretty fast, esp. on the local machine.


If you've seen delays I'll bet they can be addressed.

The MC IDE used to have built-in support for external editors since the 
olden days, and a more flexible socket-based method is even better.


So far this thought experiment seems favorable to all who've responded. 
For those who prefer a LiveCode-based editor, I can envision are project 
very much like the one you started with the Dictionary, leaving scripted 
components in the hands of capable scripters in the community so the 
engine team could theoretically be freed up to do the things only they 
can do.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Trevor, in his (L)evure framework (which is what brought the original topic
up that inspired this thread) developed a way to get the LC IDE to act as a
server/listener and ST to broadcast every time a .livecodescript file is
edited.  LC then unloads and reloads the .lcs file (whether it is a front
or backscript, library, behavior, etc.), causing it to be updated live, as
if it had been edited in the LC SE.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Mike Kerner wrote:
>
> > 4) Why is having an integrated editor important, if your edits made
> > via an external editor take effect immediately?  If we didn't need
> > the L server hack to get live edits, we could use any editor.
>
> What is "the L server hack", and what is the threshold of acceptable
> immediacy?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mike Kerner wrote:

> 4) Why is having an integrated editor important, if your edits made
> via an external editor take effect immediately?  If we didn't need
> the L server hack to get live edits, we could use any editor.

What is "the L server hack", and what is the threshold of acceptable 
immediacy?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Obviously I can't speak for LC, but since the source is already there and
available, I can't imagine that it would go away, but it is definitely
behind most of the run-of-the-mill text editors.
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

And if for #5, if I just want to keep using the LC built-in editor because
I am comfortable using it, then I would hope it still exists.  I guess like
metacard, it would branch into it's own open-source thing, maintained by
those who want it.


On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Other reasons to think about an external editor:
> 1) Code folding
> 2) Visual markers for structures (vertical lines that connect the beginning
> and end of a control structure, making it easy to see)
> 3) Larger community, therefore more people to work on it, make suggestions,
> etc.
> 3a) Maybe, eventually, the development team doesn't have to worry about the
> SE, any more, at all.
> 4) Why is having an integrated editor important, if your edits made via an
> external editor take effect immediately?  If we didn't need the L server
> hack to get live edits, we could use any editor.
> 5) Choose the editor you want, for whatever reason you want it.
> 6) And if you're using Git or some other code repo tool,
> ...a) Less need to carefully mark changes in your code so you can track
> them because the tool does that for you.  You can see all the changes that
> have happened in a particular handler, and you can see all the changes that
> go with a particular version across handlers.
> ...b) Undo, and undo from several months ago
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

Other reasons to think about an external editor:
1) Code folding
2) Visual markers for structures (vertical lines that connect the beginning
and end of a control structure, making it easy to see)
3) Larger community, therefore more people to work on it, make suggestions,
etc.
3a) Maybe, eventually, the development team doesn't have to worry about the
SE, any more, at all.
4) Why is having an integrated editor important, if your edits made via an
external editor take effect immediately?  If we didn't need the L server
hack to get live edits, we could use any editor.
5) Choose the editor you want, for whatever reason you want it.
6) And if you're using Git or some other code repo tool,
...a) Less need to carefully mark changes in your code so you can track
them because the tool does that for you.  You can see all the changes that
have happened in a particular handler, and you can see all the changes that
go with a particular version across handlers.
...b) Undo, and undo from several months ago
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 8:01 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
use-livecode  wrote:

> going a bit OT here… I've dabbled withj Atom, Visual Studio and also long
> time ago Sublime… any reason you prefer Sublime?
>
> I still keep dropping out back to BBEdit.. but if I could find a nother
> editor that had comparable tools I would use it. So far, atom and Visual
> Studio keep falling short…
>

BBEdit was my editor of choice for a long time. I tried out Sublime Text 3
while working on some projects based on Rails and Ember at the end of last
year. I’ve fallen in love with it. Here is what I like in no particular
order:

- Projects
 - You can configure folders/files within your project folder (e.g.
build folders) to ignore in searches
 - Define project properties (this helps with the communication between
LiveCode and Sublime Text).
- Multi-column, multi-row pane layouts with tabs in each pane.
- Multiple views into the same file. I like being able to work on two parts
of the same file in two different panes.
- Highly configurable
- Language modules for just about everything under the sun.
- Language modules can include python scripts which is how Sublime Text
sends messages to the stack in LiveCode that is listening on a local port).
- Plugins for things like git and linters. I can commit using keyboard
shortcuts from within Sublime Text. I can also visually see changes to
files that I’ve made since the last commit. The LiveCode linter allows me
to see mistakes in my code.
- Search
 - Searching a project shows results in a tab. I prefer this to a
search window in a separate window.
- Navigation
 - See and filter list of all handlers in current view without leaving
keyboard.
 - See and filter list of all handlers in entire project without
leaving keyboard.
 - Quickly open any file in a project without leaving the keyboard.
 - View and install language modules and plugins without everything
leaving the keyboard.
 - Right-click on any handler that is defined in a project and navigate
to it. This works even if the handler appears within quotes (e.g. send
“MyHandler” to …)

Overall I feel like Sublime Text reduces friction while I’m working. I feel
like I can work much faster.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Outcome & ScreenSteps
www.outcomeapp.io - www.screensteps.com
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[axwald via use-livecode]

Hi,

William Prothero wrote
> [...] A mothership sanctioned powerful external editor [...]

Which one? This is the problem here.
The "target audience" already has its favorite text editor, each another one
;-)

So I think it would only make sense to have "the basics" collected at some
place:
- Lists of keywords, commands, functions, properties, ...
- Regex that work to determine control structures, comments, ...
- already existing solutions (for whatever text editors)

This would be a great help to roll ones own "syntax schemata", IMHO.
And the only one I can imagine that would really be a benefit for all.

Have fun!

axwald @ the forum



-
• Livecode programming until the cat hits the fan •
--
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http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Configuring-a-Sublime-Text-project-to-notify-LiveCode-IDE-about-updates-to-script-only-stacks-tp4712463p4712521.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

going a bit OT here… I've dabbled withj Atom, Visual Studio and also long time 
ago Sublime… any reason you prefer Sublime?

I still keep dropping out back to BBEdit.. but if I could find a nother editor 
that had comparable tools I would use it. So far, atom and Visual Studio keep 
falling short…


 

On 2/22/17, 5:57 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Trevor DeVore via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

They don’t have enough resources to create an editor that
matches a product like Sublime Text. Sublime Text is an app dedicated
entirely to editing. There are thousands of people contributing tools to
Sublime Text.

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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 3:09 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> From what little I know, the levoure framework is designed to allow
> multiple devs on a single project. This is almost undoable from within the
> IDE. If however it's just text files getting worked on, then they can be
> checked out and in to whatever system you are working with, like Github for
> example. That is my understanding anyway.


I believe if you are editing a script only stack script in the IDE then
saving the script will update the script only stack file on disk. So the
file will remain a text file. Integrating with github is more about using
script only stacks than which editor you choose.

That means scripts in a Levure app can be edited with the IDE editor. I
just find it takes me less time to add features and fix bugs in a large
project when working in Sublime Text which is why I use it.

-- 
Trevor DeVore

>
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

>From what little I know, the levoure framework is designed to allow multiple 
>devs on a single project. This is almost undoable from within the IDE. If 
>however it's just text files getting worked on, then they can be checked out 
>and in to whatever system you are working with, like Github for example. That 
>is my understanding anyway. 

Bob S


> On Feb 21, 2017, at 18:27 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> It's always exciting to see new ground explored with inter-app 
> communications, but with script editors I find myself wondering:
> 
> Why not use LC's?
> 
> If it's not on par with alternatives and for some reason can't be made to be 
> on par, why don't we just ship LC with an appropriately-licensed editor, 
> allow hooks like the ones discussed here for any other editor folks might 
> want, and spend the development time we used to spend on LC's editor on other 
> things?
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems


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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[prothero--- via use-livecode]

Richard,
That makes good sense. A mothership sanctioned powerful external editor, with 
detailed install instructions, would be very nice and would better support 
those with higher professional aspirations for livecode.
Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> prothero wrote:
> 
> > I agree with Roger,
> > There needs to be a useful script editor bundled with livecode.
> 
> Absolutely.  No development environment could claim to be integrated without 
> including such an essential components.
> 
> I'm not suggesting we make people hunt for their own components.  I'm 
> wondering if it makes sense to officially embrace external editors, for both 
> utility and cost savings.
> 
> 
> > I'm suspecting that a lot of the impetus for sublime text and other
> > external editors has to do with professional developers' need to use
> > github with script only stacks. For entry level users, the built in
> > editor would be their first exposure and perhaps sufficient.
> >
> > I also suspect that folks new to programming, or non-professionals
> > might be a target too good to "not" keep on our good side.
> 
> Apologies that I didn't wrote more clearly.
> 
> In all my communications on this I've tried to stress that a good editor be 
> bundled with the LC install.
> 
> But if that editor were external, then the IDE needs only one interface for 
> managing not only the included editor, but any other editor anyone might want 
> to use.
> 
> Out of the box there's an experience at least as good as what we have now, 
> and with the click of a Prefs button users could also choose any other editor 
> they prefer.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

prothero wrote:

> I agree with Roger,
> There needs to be a useful script editor bundled with livecode.

Absolutely.  No development environment could claim to be integrated 
without including such an essential components.


I'm not suggesting we make people hunt for their own components.  I'm 
wondering if it makes sense to officially embrace external editors, for 
both utility and cost savings.



> I'm suspecting that a lot of the impetus for sublime text and other
> external editors has to do with professional developers' need to use
> github with script only stacks. For entry level users, the built in
> editor would be their first exposure and perhaps sufficient.
>
> I also suspect that folks new to programming, or non-professionals
> might be a target too good to "not" keep on our good side.

Apologies that I didn't wrote more clearly.

In all my communications on this I've tried to stress that a good editor 
be bundled with the LC install.


But if that editor were external, then the IDE needs only one interface 
for managing not only the included editor, but any other editor anyone 
might want to use.


Out of the box there's an experience at least as good as what we have 
now, and with the click of a Prefs button users could also choose any 
other editor they prefer.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[prothero--- via use-livecode]

I agree with Roger,
There needs to be a useful script editor bundled with livecode. I'm suspecting 
that a lot of the impetus for sublime text and other external editors has to do 
with professional developers' need to use github with script only stacks. For 
entry level users, the built in editor would be their first exposure and 
perhaps sufficient. 

I also suspect that folks new to programming, or non-professionals might be a 
target too good to "not" keep on our good side.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 8:28 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm fine with a different editor, as long as it is "in the box".  I don't
> want to be forced into adding components from other sites unless I choose
> to, like plugins, etc.  The IDE should install as a complete thing (editor
> included).
> 
> 2 cents.
> ~Roger
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Roger Eller wrote:
>> 
 On Feb 21, 2017 9:28 PM, "Richard Gaskin via use-livecode" wrote:
 
 It's always exciting to see new ground explored with inter-app
 communications, but with script editors I find myself wondering:
 
 Why not use LC's?
 
 If it's not on par with alternatives and for some reason can't be
 made to be on par, why don't we just ship LC with an appropriately-
 licensed editor, allow hooks like the ones discussed here for any
 other editor folks might want, and spend the development time we
 used to spend on LC's editor on other things?
>>> 
>>> I'm not what you would call a power user, nor do I need an editor that
>>> handles multiple languages and syntax coloring variations.  I like the
>>> truly integrated LC editor just fine.  It is great to see users
>>> providing options for those who need more than that.
>> 
>> Options are good.  I'm wondering if perhaps we could embrace that more
>> fully.
>> 
>> The SE is a very expensive component to maintain.  If we could replace it
>> with a third-party editor, and put a fraction of the time we used to spend
>> maintaining and enhancing the SE into providing a mechanism to use any
>> editor the user prefers, we'd have a better editor in the box and vast
>> options for using other editors, and save development expense along the way.
>> 
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> 
>> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

I'm fine with a different editor, as long as it is "in the box".  I don't
want to be forced into adding components from other sites unless I choose
to, like plugins, etc.  The IDE should install as a complete thing (editor
included).

2 cents.
~Roger


On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Roger Eller wrote:
>
> > On Feb 21, 2017 9:28 PM, "Richard Gaskin via use-livecode" wrote:
> >
> >> It's always exciting to see new ground explored with inter-app
> >> communications, but with script editors I find myself wondering:
> >>
> >> Why not use LC's?
> >>
> >> If it's not on par with alternatives and for some reason can't be
> >> made to be on par, why don't we just ship LC with an appropriately-
> >> licensed editor, allow hooks like the ones discussed here for any
> >> other editor folks might want, and spend the development time we
> >> used to spend on LC's editor on other things?
> >
> > I'm not what you would call a power user, nor do I need an editor that
> > handles multiple languages and syntax coloring variations.  I like the
> > truly integrated LC editor just fine.  It is great to see users
> > providing options for those who need more than that.
>
> Options are good.  I'm wondering if perhaps we could embrace that more
> fully.
>
> The SE is a very expensive component to maintain.  If we could replace it
> with a third-party editor, and put a fraction of the time we used to spend
> maintaining and enhancing the SE into providing a mechanism to use any
> editor the user prefers, we'd have a better editor in the box and vast
> options for using other editors, and save development expense along the way.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  
>  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Roger Eller wrote:

> On Feb 21, 2017 9:28 PM, "Richard Gaskin via use-livecode" wrote:
>
>> It's always exciting to see new ground explored with inter-app
>> communications, but with script editors I find myself wondering:
>>
>> Why not use LC's?
>>
>> If it's not on par with alternatives and for some reason can't be
>> made to be on par, why don't we just ship LC with an appropriately-
>> licensed editor, allow hooks like the ones discussed here for any
>> other editor folks might want, and spend the development time we
>> used to spend on LC's editor on other things?
>
> I'm not what you would call a power user, nor do I need an editor that
> handles multiple languages and syntax coloring variations.  I like the
> truly integrated LC editor just fine.  It is great to see users
> providing options for those who need more than that.

Options are good.  I'm wondering if perhaps we could embrace that more 
fully.


The SE is a very expensive component to maintain.  If we could replace 
it with a third-party editor, and put a fraction of the time we used to 
spend maintaining and enhancing the SE into providing a mechanism to use 
any editor the user prefers, we'd have a better editor in the box and 
vast options for using other editors, and save development expense along 
the way.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Trevor DeVore via use-livecode]

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It's always exciting to see new ground explored with inter-app
> communications, but with script editors I find myself wondering:
>
> Why not use LC's?
>
> If it's not on par with alternatives and for some reason can't be made to
> be on par, why don't we just ship LC with an appropriately-licensed editor,
> allow hooks like the ones discussed here for any other editor folks might
> want, and spend the development time we used to spend on LC's editor on
> other things?
>

Richard,

Like Roger I think both solutions are useful depending on user preference.
I would guess that a large number of LiveCode users are happy with the
current editor. Iterating on the one that ships with LC is probably in the
best interest for those users. Keeping everything within LC is definitely a
smoother new user experience.

Personally I don’t expect the LC team to create a script editor that meets
all of my needs. They don’t have enough resources to create an editor that
matches a product like Sublime Text. Sublime Text is an app dedicated
entirely to editing. There are thousands of people contributing tools to
Sublime Text. In addition to the general feature, there is the added bonus
that I can work on my company apps that are created using Ruby on Rails,
Ember, Salesforce, etc. For me using the same editor for all projects is a
big productivity boost.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Outcome & ScreenSteps
www.outcomeapp.io - www.screensteps.com
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Re: Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

I'm not what you would call a power user, nor do I need an editor that
handles multiple languages and syntax coloring variations.  I like the
truly integrated LC editor just fine.  It is great to see users providing
options for those who need more than that.

~Roger

On Feb 21, 2017 9:28 PM, "Richard Gaskin via use-livecode" <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It's always exciting to see new ground explored with inter-app
> communications, but with script editors I find myself wondering:
>
> Why not use LC's?
>
> If it's not on par with alternatives and for some reason can't be made to
> be on par, why don't we just ship LC with an appropriately-licensed editor,
> allow hooks like the ones discussed here for any other editor folks might
> want, and spend the development time we used to spend on LC's editor on
> other things?
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>
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Script Editor fixable? (was: Configuring a Sublime Text project to notify LiveCode IDE about updates to script only stacks)

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

It's always exciting to see new ground explored with inter-app 
communications, but with script editors I find myself wondering:


Why not use LC's?

If it's not on par with alternatives and for some reason can't be made 
to be on par, why don't we just ship LC with an appropriately-licensed 
editor, allow hooks like the ones discussed here for any other editor 
folks might want, and spend the development time we used to spend on 
LC's editor on other things?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems

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