Re: notifications system using "the files"? bad idea?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Thanks for that idea Mike!

On Aug 23, 2017 10:07 PM, "Mike Bonner via use-livecode" <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> If things don't work as well as you like, and you decide to go with
> sockets, (and you are ok with running a small server process)  chatrev is
> cool, is already built, and should be easy to modify to do what you want.
> (Its already set to distribute messages from clients to the server then out
> to the rest of the clients who are attached)  You'd just need to adjust
> what you want it to do with the messages...
>
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > i understand.  Thats exactly what I am I am going with ease of
> > implementation.
> >
> > the list of files would be obtained using "the files" function of
> livecode
> > . from a mapped drive on a LAN.
> >
> > Thats what I am thinking.  it should all be ok .. i hope the
> OS
> > caches to memory the folder lists that are most often read.
> >
> > I'm gonna give it a shot using this file system method rather than
> another
> > database.
> >
> > my problem is being able to stress and scale test my system . i just
> > don't know how to simulate network conditions ... it all works perfect
> with
> > 10 people on 2 machinesbut after that .who knows.. i'm
> > gonna find out thats for sure.
> >
> > Thanks for everyone's input.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 9:38 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > So you would be using sockets to send a list of 1 or more file names
> > > (notifications) across the network to other computers?
> > >
> > > If so, I am not sure there is any significant performance difference
> > > than having the notifications in a database.
> > >
> > > The only practical difference may be the ease of implementation
> > > depending of your expertise with SQL databases or not.
> > >
> > > Since I assume it is your application that will received file lists
> from
> > > other computers and write them to a user notification folder as well as
> > > fetch 'the files' from that folder to check for messages, I don't think
> > > you could ever run into any issues where the directory is being written
> > > to at the same time it is being read. Even if, the OS essentially
> > > handles that for you.
> > >
> > >
> > >
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Re: notifications system using "the files"? bad idea?

[Mike Bonner via use-livecode]

If things don't work as well as you like, and you decide to go with
sockets, (and you are ok with running a small server process)  chatrev is
cool, is already built, and should be easy to modify to do what you want.
(Its already set to distribute messages from clients to the server then out
to the rest of the clients who are attached)  You'd just need to adjust
what you want it to do with the messages...

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> i understand.  Thats exactly what I am I am going with ease of
> implementation.
>
> the list of files would be obtained using "the files" function of livecode
> . from a mapped drive on a LAN.
>
> Thats what I am thinking.  it should all be ok .. i hope the OS
> caches to memory the folder lists that are most often read.
>
> I'm gonna give it a shot using this file system method rather than another
> database.
>
> my problem is being able to stress and scale test my system . i just
> don't know how to simulate network conditions ... it all works perfect with
> 10 people on 2 machinesbut after that .who knows.. i'm
> gonna find out thats for sure.
>
> Thanks for everyone's input.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 9:38 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > So you would be using sockets to send a list of 1 or more file names
> > (notifications) across the network to other computers?
> >
> > If so, I am not sure there is any significant performance difference
> > than having the notifications in a database.
> >
> > The only practical difference may be the ease of implementation
> > depending of your expertise with SQL databases or not.
> >
> > Since I assume it is your application that will received file lists from
> > other computers and write them to a user notification folder as well as
> > fetch 'the files' from that folder to check for messages, I don't think
> > you could ever run into any issues where the directory is being written
> > to at the same time it is being read. Even if, the OS essentially
> > handles that for you.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://post.spmailt.com/f/a/hI4G8NOrME9mw6gmqg5QqA~~/
> AAGp3AA~/RgRbf2ZPP0EIACzK-jOm_mFXA3NwY1gEAFkGc2hhcmVkYQd
> oZWxsb18xYAw1Mi4zOS4yNi4xNDRCCgAAzzKeWXglR4hSHXVzZS1saXZlY29
> kZUBsaXN0cy5ydW5yZXYuY29tCVEEAEQ1aHR0cDovL2xpc3RzLnJ1bnJ
> ldi5jb20vbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby91c2UtbGl2ZWNvZGVHAnt9
> >
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Re: notifications system using "the files"? bad idea?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

i understand.  Thats exactly what I am I am going with ease of
implementation.

the list of files would be obtained using "the files" function of livecode
. from a mapped drive on a LAN.

Thats what I am thinking.  it should all be ok .. i hope the OS
caches to memory the folder lists that are most often read.

I'm gonna give it a shot using this file system method rather than another
database.

my problem is being able to stress and scale test my system . i just
don't know how to simulate network conditions ... it all works perfect with
10 people on 2 machinesbut after that .who knows.. i'm
gonna find out thats for sure.

Thanks for everyone's input.





On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 9:38 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> So you would be using sockets to send a list of 1 or more file names
> (notifications) across the network to other computers?
>
> If so, I am not sure there is any significant performance difference
> than having the notifications in a database.
>
> The only practical difference may be the ease of implementation
> depending of your expertise with SQL databases or not.
>
> Since I assume it is your application that will received file lists from
> other computers and write them to a user notification folder as well as
> fetch 'the files' from that folder to check for messages, I don't think
> you could ever run into any issues where the directory is being written
> to at the same time it is being read. Even if, the OS essentially
> handles that for you.
>
>
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
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Re: notifications system using "the files"? bad idea?

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

So you would be using sockets to send a list of 1 or more file names
(notifications) across the network to other computers?

If so, I am not sure there is any significant performance difference
than having the notifications in a database.

The only practical difference may be the ease of implementation
depending of your expertise with SQL databases or not.

Since I assume it is your application that will received file lists from
other computers and write them to a user notification folder as well as
fetch 'the files' from that folder to check for messages, I don't think
you could ever run into any issues where the directory is being written
to at the same time it is being read. Even if, the OS essentially
handles that for you.



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Re: notifications system using "the files"? bad idea?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

like for example

inv-fileidhash.not would mean "invitation to file with that ID"  but
having been placed in a particular user's notification folder, it would
know the notification is for that user and no other.

make sense?

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:55 PM, Tom Glod  wrote:

> by notification I don't mean anything fancy or OS or network based...just
> a notification system that shows to the user "so and so has invited you to
> a file"... defined entirely by me.
>
> the code in the filename is pre-defined, they would all be lower case and
> under x amount of characters.
>
> my question is whether there is some kind of bottle neck that I am not
> aware of that could prevent a LAN to send "the files" list to multiple
> clients quickly...or more quickly than a DB query for records that match a
> certain query.
>
> Thanks guys
>
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/23/2017 4:25 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:
>> > Hi folks, I'm building a notification systemand I don't want to add
>> > another DB query to the systemso my idea is to save notifications
>> as a
>> > file in a folder, and the just read and process "the files" 
>> >
>> > so the name of the file would contain the notification data i
>> wouldn't
>> > have to read each file, just the list of files in the folder.
>> >
>> > hoping to save some network traffic that way.
>> >
>> > am I gonna regret this?...hit some kind of OS bottleneck?. anybody
>> have
>> > any ideas why this would be a bad idea?
>> >
>> > we build for all 3 desktop platforms.
>> >
>> > Thanks for any thoughts.
>> >
>>
>> Are the notifications (i.e the file names) preset? Or user entered. If
>> user entered, realize that there are issues with converting file names
>> across platforms. Linux, OSX, and Window have different reserved
>> characters and file name standards, as well as different support for
>> Unicode or high-ASCII characters. If all you messages are basic ASCII
>> characters and under about 250 characters in length, you should be fine.
>>
>>
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>> subscription preferences:
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>>
>
>
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Re: notifications system using "the files"? bad idea?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

by notification I don't mean anything fancy or OS or network based...just a
notification system that shows to the user "so and so has invited you to a
file"... defined entirely by me.

the code in the filename is pre-defined, they would all be lower case and
under x amount of characters.

my question is whether there is some kind of bottle neck that I am not
aware of that could prevent a LAN to send "the files" list to multiple
clients quickly...or more quickly than a DB query for records that match a
certain query.

Thanks guys

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 8/23/2017 4:25 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:
> > Hi folks, I'm building a notification systemand I don't want to add
> > another DB query to the systemso my idea is to save notifications as
> a
> > file in a folder, and the just read and process "the files" 
> >
> > so the name of the file would contain the notification data i
> wouldn't
> > have to read each file, just the list of files in the folder.
> >
> > hoping to save some network traffic that way.
> >
> > am I gonna regret this?...hit some kind of OS bottleneck?. anybody
> have
> > any ideas why this would be a bad idea?
> >
> > we build for all 3 desktop platforms.
> >
> > Thanks for any thoughts.
> >
>
> Are the notifications (i.e the file names) preset? Or user entered. If
> user entered, realize that there are issues with converting file names
> across platforms. Linux, OSX, and Window have different reserved
> characters and file name standards, as well as different support for
> Unicode or high-ASCII characters. If all you messages are basic ASCII
> characters and under about 250 characters in length, you should be fine.
>
>
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>
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Re: notifications system using "the files"? bad idea?

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

On 8/23/2017 4:25 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks, I'm building a notification systemand I don't want to add
> another DB query to the systemso my idea is to save notifications as a
> file in a folder, and the just read and process "the files" 
>
> so the name of the file would contain the notification data i wouldn't
> have to read each file, just the list of files in the folder.
>
> hoping to save some network traffic that way.
>
> am I gonna regret this?...hit some kind of OS bottleneck?. anybody have
> any ideas why this would be a bad idea?
>
> we build for all 3 desktop platforms.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts.
>

Are the notifications (i.e the file names) preset? Or user entered. If
user entered, realize that there are issues with converting file names
across platforms. Linux, OSX, and Window have different reserved
characters and file name standards, as well as different support for
Unicode or high-ASCII characters. If all you messages are basic ASCII
characters and under about 250 characters in length, you should be fine.


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Re: notifications system using "the files"? bad idea?

[Monte Goulding via use-livecode]

Hmm… by notifications do you mean IPC? Is this over the network or multiple 
processes on a single machine. For both cases sockets is probably easiest. On 
the single machine then you can just accept on localhost to avoid getting 
firewall dialogs:

local sPort

set the defaultNetworkInterface to “127.0.0.1”
accept connections on port 0 with message “NewConnection”
put it into sPort
set the defaultNetworkInterface to empty

PS ^ Depends on using LC 9

Cheers

Monte
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notifications system using "the files"? bad idea?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Hi folks, I'm building a notification systemand I don't want to add
another DB query to the systemso my idea is to save notifications as a
file in a folder, and the just read and process "the files" 

so the name of the file would contain the notification data i wouldn't
have to read each file, just the list of files in the folder.

hoping to save some network traffic that way.

am I gonna regret this?...hit some kind of OS bottleneck?. anybody have
any ideas why this would be a bad idea?

we build for all 3 desktop platforms.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Tom
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