Re: Ideas for my book.
Patrick, someone wrote this on the FB Livecode Group.. just thought I'd drop it in here. "I am struggling to get from the basic stuff to a higher level. It seems that every book I find either talks about the very basics or its content goes clear over my head. Any advices?" On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 2:39 PM Graham Samuel via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Wise words from Jacque as always! Yes, who is the book intended for? If > people who have programmed already, then we have to ask, have they used > scripting languages? Are they old enough to remember Hypercard, etc? If > not, it’s all a bit of a tabula rasa, isn’t it? > > To answer on my own account (just my two battered Eurocents): > > I have always been attracted to the concept of “natural-language-like” > which to me of course means “English-like”. I started with Hypercard, then > SuperCard, then LiveCode in all its manifestations. In each case what > attracted me was in part the “stack” model, which at least is easy to > understand, and in the particular case of LC I was (and am) exceedingly > keen on the multi-platform ideas at the heart of LC - but perhaps even > more, I was and am attracted by the simplicity of the “look” of the > language, which leads to both compactness and readability. When it came to > actual coding, for several years I used to guess what the code would be and > then find from the dictionary that my guess was slightly, but not > drastically, wrong! That’s because natural languages are very rich and > provide a huge variety of ways to say the same thing. I found these > necessary corrections easy and very rapid to do, so I was content. Any book > would have to decide where to start from, and then lead the reader to this > type of insight, I think, so the reader would not be afraid to use the very > large scope of the LC language. Such a book would also have to include an > honest appraisal of what LC isn’t so good for, as perhaps others have > hinted. > > I have produced viable software products with LC, but what has happened to > me subsequently has been rather dispiriting, in two ways: > > 1. LC has decided to make itself more powerful by adding only > semi-compatible features, particularly LCB and the whole Widget idea. It is > a struggle to get to understand and actually use all this, and a book which > would help with that, using lots of examples and step-by-step instructions, > would be enormously helpful. > > 2. Everybody and her brother are being continually bogged down by > deployment issues - code signing, notarization, installer logic, submission > to stores, using payment services, working with frameworks which don’t > really recognise LC, you name it - it’s a freaking nightmare. Just getting > the program to do its thing is now perhaps less than 50 percent of the > effort to provide an actual deliverable. Any book that helps with that > (step-by-step etc) would be miraculously useful, but sadly it would need to > be updated several times per year. > > Obviously the above is just scratching the surface, but I hope it helps a > little. > > Graham > > > On 18 Sep 2019, at 00:29, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I think the first question should be: what assumptions will the book > make? Will you assume familiarity with LC syntax and structure and plan to > expand on various subcategories (server, pi, multi-media, etc?) Or is it > aimed at beginners who have never programmed? Or maybe it's for experienced > developers who know other languages but want to learn what's different in > LC? > > > > That would narrow down the choices for the material you plan to present. > Who's the audience? > > > > On 9/17/19 2:40 PM, Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: > >> First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow > with > >> this. > >> I see an interest in: > >> Raspberry PI > >> LiveCode server > >> Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? > >> So here is are some questions for the group. > >> 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and > why? > >> 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other > >> programming languages? > >> 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? > >> I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop a > >> great book. > >> Thanks Patrick > >> ___ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and
Re: Ideas for my book
Hi All, Just for reference, Professor Manuel Agustí i Melchor from Universidad Politécnica de Valencia published a book on MetaCard and Revolution: http://www.disca.upv.es/magustim/mmmultiplataforma/book1.html By the way, Google Translate works fine on these pages. Al ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Ideas for my book.
Wise words from Jacque as always! Yes, who is the book intended for? If people who have programmed already, then we have to ask, have they used scripting languages? Are they old enough to remember Hypercard, etc? If not, it’s all a bit of a tabula rasa, isn’t it? To answer on my own account (just my two battered Eurocents): I have always been attracted to the concept of “natural-language-like” which to me of course means “English-like”. I started with Hypercard, then SuperCard, then LiveCode in all its manifestations. In each case what attracted me was in part the “stack” model, which at least is easy to understand, and in the particular case of LC I was (and am) exceedingly keen on the multi-platform ideas at the heart of LC - but perhaps even more, I was and am attracted by the simplicity of the “look” of the language, which leads to both compactness and readability. When it came to actual coding, for several years I used to guess what the code would be and then find from the dictionary that my guess was slightly, but not drastically, wrong! That’s because natural languages are very rich and provide a huge variety of ways to say the same thing. I found these necessary corrections easy and very rapid to do, so I was content. Any book would have to decide where to start from, and then lead the reader to this type of insight, I think, so the reader would not be afraid to use the very large scope of the LC language. Such a book would also have to include an honest appraisal of what LC isn’t so good for, as perhaps others have hinted. I have produced viable software products with LC, but what has happened to me subsequently has been rather dispiriting, in two ways: 1. LC has decided to make itself more powerful by adding only semi-compatible features, particularly LCB and the whole Widget idea. It is a struggle to get to understand and actually use all this, and a book which would help with that, using lots of examples and step-by-step instructions, would be enormously helpful. 2. Everybody and her brother are being continually bogged down by deployment issues - code signing, notarization, installer logic, submission to stores, using payment services, working with frameworks which don’t really recognise LC, you name it - it’s a freaking nightmare. Just getting the program to do its thing is now perhaps less than 50 percent of the effort to provide an actual deliverable. Any book that helps with that (step-by-step etc) would be miraculously useful, but sadly it would need to be updated several times per year. Obviously the above is just scratching the surface, but I hope it helps a little. Graham > On 18 Sep 2019, at 00:29, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > wrote: > > I think the first question should be: what assumptions will the book make? > Will you assume familiarity with LC syntax and structure and plan to expand > on various subcategories (server, pi, multi-media, etc?) Or is it aimed at > beginners who have never programmed? Or maybe it's for experienced developers > who know other languages but want to learn what's different in LC? > > That would narrow down the choices for the material you plan to present. > Who's the audience? > > On 9/17/19 2:40 PM, Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: >> First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow with >> this. >> I see an interest in: >> Raspberry PI >> LiveCode server >> Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? >> So here is are some questions for the group. >> 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? >> 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other >> programming languages? >> 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? >> I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop a >> great book. >> Thanks Patrick >> ___ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: Ideas for my book.
I have referenced many books about programming over the years. I would thin that this needs to be a multi-book set. It's hard to cover a language in a single book. I also think that large print is needed for an actual book - similar to the dummies Series. The nice thing about an e-Book format is the illustrations can be interactive with copy-paste code samples. This format is easily updated via the net and can be read with a reader of some sort or computer. The subject matter is very extensive and needs to be handled in digestible amounts. As far as subject matter: Wide and varied as LiveCode can do so many things. I believe that have given you more that you can imagine. I also think that a master index searching section is needed. Even for sections that will be covered in the future. Just a thought, this could be written with LiveCode! This is definitely a humungous task. Sincerely, Clarence Martin Email: chi...@themartinz.com Phone: 636 6965561 -Original Message- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 3:30 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Re: Ideas for my book. I think the first question should be: what assumptions will the book make? Will you assume familiarity with LC syntax and structure and plan to expand on various subcategories (server, pi, multi-media, etc?) Or is it aimed at beginners who have never programmed? Or maybe it's for experienced developers who know other languages but want to learn what's different in LC? That would narrow down the choices for the material you plan to present. Who's the audience? On 9/17/19 2:40 PM, Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: > First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow > with this. > > I see an interest in: > > Raspberry PI > LiveCode server > > Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? > > So here is are some questions for the group. > > 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? > > > 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other > programming languages? > > > 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? > > I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop > a great book. > > Thanks Patrick > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Ideas for my book.
I think the first question should be: what assumptions will the book make? Will you assume familiarity with LC syntax and structure and plan to expand on various subcategories (server, pi, multi-media, etc?) Or is it aimed at beginners who have never programmed? Or maybe it's for experienced developers who know other languages but want to learn what's different in LC? That would narrow down the choices for the material you plan to present. Who's the audience? On 9/17/19 2:40 PM, Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow with this. I see an interest in: Raspberry PI LiveCode server Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? So here is are some questions for the group. 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other programming languages? 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop a great book. Thanks Patrick ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Ideas for my book.
On 9/17/19 12:40 PM, Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow with this. I see an interest in: Raspberry PI LiveCode server Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? So here is are some questions for the group. 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? For LC scripting proper, it's been too long now, so I'm mostly going to stay out of that one. With regard to LCB, the documentation is sparse, hard to find (as in spread out in too many places), and incomplete. The lack of parity with LCS scripting features (e.g. why is there no switch statement?), the rudimentary debugging ability, the ffi awkwardness, are all impediments. 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other programming languages? See below. Also I'm four or five times more productive coding in LC than in other languages/platforms. By the time I've thought something through to a prototyping stage I pretty much have a working application. 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? I don't. I think each has its place. If I'm going to be mostly working with text manipulation then LC has an edge over *everything* else. Even if I have to plug in some regex. Python, on the other hand, has an awesome set of scientfic and math libraries and is quite fast. In a previous position we moved some code from a MathLab backend to Python for speed, ease of maintenance, and better fit into our Agile workflow. I do quite a bit of Ruby coding. I do things in Ruby that are impossible in LiveCode. I also do things in Ruby that would be difficult in LiveCode because of the vast array of gems available to extend the capabilities of the basic system. And I also do things in LiveCode that would be a real pain in Ruby. My general approach is "can I do this in LiveCode? If not, look at alternatives". -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: Ideas for my book.
Op 17-9-2019 om 21:40 schreef Patrick Roza via use-livecode: First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow with this. I see an interest in: Raspberry PI LiveCode server Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? So here is are some questions for the group. 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? /Not difficult per se, depends on what you do or want. It has an easy entry and learns you a bit to read other languages. Then the DAtagrid a bit more, but i can use it now for the needs i have. Strungling a bit now with LC server in combination with HTML, i doubting if i should go PHP or LCserver and and use revigniter or not As Revigniter looks promising, but has also a learning path. Did the LCB lessons but still don't know how to start on any library to use from other languages. How to use a dll, how to start. LCB is for most people i think not easy./ 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other programming languages? /It's good to read, quick to understand. Even for non native english folks/ /For audio it's not suitable (audio creating/vst virtual instruments), maybe when it could be combined with JUCE, but that is C++ based./ /For Audio i iked Synthmaker/Flowstone but that is as good as dead since a while, killed by love and taking the wrong path(robotics) / 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? /I don't know, but i have had doubts on starting to learn Kotlin/Java as it is also multiple platform. and probably more possibilities to implement when it comes to Android. But whole lot more difficult to write. Livecode is far more easy to remember./ I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop a great book. Thanks Patrick ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Ideas for my book.
First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow with this. I see an interest in: Raspberry PI LiveCode server Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? So here is are some questions for the group. 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other programming languages? 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop a great book. Thanks Patrick ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
