Re: LC Bugmageddon or Bugportunity?
Hi Curry... This was helpful on a day where LC threw a curveball at me. Hard coded AWS endpoints. I agree with a lot of the sentiments. Overall there is a lot to love and most bugs have workaroundsbut some things are dragging on. Have a great day Tom On Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:36 PM Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode, < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Good luck, Curry. That’s all I’m gonna say this time :P > > On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 16:58, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Me, recently: > > > > > I don't have any big headaches, thank God! > > > > That's true; it's rare that I get stuck. I'm workaround-musclebound. :) > > But I do understand why people get headaches and get stuck. > > Hope I didn't sound aloof from the problems; just busy working around. > > > > It's not just features; it's LiveCode's level of quality/bugs! > > Only in the last few days, I've run across: > > > > - two, maybe three clipboard copy/paste bugs or deficiencies > > - a PDF bug or limitation > > - a field glitch, and a couple of other suspicious behaviors > > - oh yeah, and a hard crash (almost forget) > > > > So I'll recipe and search/report those right after meeting my deadline. > > Meanwhile, I see many old friends/old bugs still in the latest LC! > > Rule of thumb: if you try ANY new route in LC, usually there's a bug. > > When you use an old route, often still the same bug, or a new twist. > > > > I can handle that. It's where the "workaround muscles" really help! > > Rarely bothers me, unless there's a showstopper on a tight deadline. > > I even enjoy a good workaround session; it's what I do for a living. > > > > But when beginners and intermediate users run into LC bugs, it's tough. > > Confuses them to sort their own bugs from LC's, much less solving them. > > Who do bugs hurt most? Newbies, people on deadlines, and LC itself. > > > > I've helped many newbies and oldbies get past LC bugs and get unstuck. > > With various competition, being buggy won't help make the world LC. > > I've warned about quality for many years. New code should be good code! > > > > (Yes, my own addons still need updating: the proverbial speck & log. > > Although here the log usually derives from the speck! It's coming. > > I know this would sound better if my own stuff was finished first. > > But I must and will stay involved, and speak up, while doing that.) > > > > We all build on top of the LC layer: the proverbial sandy/solid ground. > > Your software. My addons. Your clients. My clients. The IDE. > > The ground we build upon is more crucial than any single thing we build. > > > > THE GOOD NEWS: > > > > There are tactics you can use to roll past bugs and soldier on! > > I'll be sharing some of those as soon as I write them up. > > Choice of dev tactics can really make or break a project. > > The key is how to leverage LC's strong points and avoid its weak points. > > That's the bright side, or "Bugportunity" of the situation. > > > > This can help coders survive and thrive in LC-land without headaches. > > To some extent, it can negate the effects of bugs and limitations. > > I had to adjust my own tactics for MORE LC bugs & LESS CK energy/health! > > I'm still not Speedy Gonzales yet, but it's getting better > > > > So that's why I decided to write again. To the frustrated, there's hope! > > I know we always hear the same mantras and see the same approaches. > > This is NOT stuff you've heard; I'm the anti-mantra: mostly original. > > Just need to finish writing them up, and I'll share. > > My increased involvement on this list is the first step toward releases. > > > > As I also mentioned recently, credit where due: LC fixes MANY bugs! > > If we look at # of bugs fixed, it's impressive. > > > > Problem is that there are many MORE bugs. One gets fixed, another added. > > So far I haven't noticed a big reduction in the # of bugs ADDED. > > We're mere mortals, so I suggest turning the tide by reducing NET bugs. > > Either way, whether LC stays buggy or improves, users can succeed! > > > > THE GLASS-HALF-BUGGY NEWS: > > > > But tactics are like an uber-bandaid; easy to forget about the injury. > > Later that can lead to further injury, infection, gangrene, etc. :) > > From there, the Apocalypse. That's the "Bugmageddon" half of my message. > > > > I saw a funny YouTube animal video comment: "Damn nature, you scary!" > > Likewise, sometimes "Wow LC, you pretty buggy!" It's part luck & habit. > > If you have experience and stick to what works, smooth sailing. > > And of course, often sailing on top of previous workarounds. > > But when you need something different - boom! Likely to hit an LC bug. > > > > Tactics help there, too. Leverage LC's strong points & good code to win. > > But LC still needs fewer bugs. Fixing one bug without adding another. > > We all help, but ultimately it's LC's job/decision to reduce LC's bugs. > > > > I do my part: I'll start reporting this
Re: LC Bugmageddon or Bugportunity?
Good luck, Curry. That’s all I’m gonna say this time :P On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 16:58, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Me, recently: > > > I don't have any big headaches, thank God! > > That's true; it's rare that I get stuck. I'm workaround-musclebound. :) > But I do understand why people get headaches and get stuck. > Hope I didn't sound aloof from the problems; just busy working around. > > It's not just features; it's LiveCode's level of quality/bugs! > Only in the last few days, I've run across: > > - two, maybe three clipboard copy/paste bugs or deficiencies > - a PDF bug or limitation > - a field glitch, and a couple of other suspicious behaviors > - oh yeah, and a hard crash (almost forget) > > So I'll recipe and search/report those right after meeting my deadline. > Meanwhile, I see many old friends/old bugs still in the latest LC! > Rule of thumb: if you try ANY new route in LC, usually there's a bug. > When you use an old route, often still the same bug, or a new twist. > > I can handle that. It's where the "workaround muscles" really help! > Rarely bothers me, unless there's a showstopper on a tight deadline. > I even enjoy a good workaround session; it's what I do for a living. > > But when beginners and intermediate users run into LC bugs, it's tough. > Confuses them to sort their own bugs from LC's, much less solving them. > Who do bugs hurt most? Newbies, people on deadlines, and LC itself. > > I've helped many newbies and oldbies get past LC bugs and get unstuck. > With various competition, being buggy won't help make the world LC. > I've warned about quality for many years. New code should be good code! > > (Yes, my own addons still need updating: the proverbial speck & log. > Although here the log usually derives from the speck! It's coming. > I know this would sound better if my own stuff was finished first. > But I must and will stay involved, and speak up, while doing that.) > > We all build on top of the LC layer: the proverbial sandy/solid ground. > Your software. My addons. Your clients. My clients. The IDE. > The ground we build upon is more crucial than any single thing we build. > > THE GOOD NEWS: > > There are tactics you can use to roll past bugs and soldier on! > I'll be sharing some of those as soon as I write them up. > Choice of dev tactics can really make or break a project. > The key is how to leverage LC's strong points and avoid its weak points. > That's the bright side, or "Bugportunity" of the situation. > > This can help coders survive and thrive in LC-land without headaches. > To some extent, it can negate the effects of bugs and limitations. > I had to adjust my own tactics for MORE LC bugs & LESS CK energy/health! > I'm still not Speedy Gonzales yet, but it's getting better > > So that's why I decided to write again. To the frustrated, there's hope! > I know we always hear the same mantras and see the same approaches. > This is NOT stuff you've heard; I'm the anti-mantra: mostly original. > Just need to finish writing them up, and I'll share. > My increased involvement on this list is the first step toward releases. > > As I also mentioned recently, credit where due: LC fixes MANY bugs! > If we look at # of bugs fixed, it's impressive. > > Problem is that there are many MORE bugs. One gets fixed, another added. > So far I haven't noticed a big reduction in the # of bugs ADDED. > We're mere mortals, so I suggest turning the tide by reducing NET bugs. > Either way, whether LC stays buggy or improves, users can succeed! > > THE GLASS-HALF-BUGGY NEWS: > > But tactics are like an uber-bandaid; easy to forget about the injury. > Later that can lead to further injury, infection, gangrene, etc. :) > From there, the Apocalypse. That's the "Bugmageddon" half of my message. > > I saw a funny YouTube animal video comment: "Damn nature, you scary!" > Likewise, sometimes "Wow LC, you pretty buggy!" It's part luck & habit. > If you have experience and stick to what works, smooth sailing. > And of course, often sailing on top of previous workarounds. > But when you need something different - boom! Likely to hit an LC bug. > > Tactics help there, too. Leverage LC's strong points & good code to win. > But LC still needs fewer bugs. Fixing one bug without adding another. > We all help, but ultimately it's LC's job/decision to reduce LC's bugs. > > I do my part: I'll start reporting this latest bug batch ASAP. > Not only that, I'll post resources on tactics & LC paradigm when I can. > Along with addon updates and some next-gen tools! Good things coming. > > Other people, and LC Ltd themselves, have great stuff coming soon too. > So it's an exciting time! But I hope LC Bugs are decimated soon. > Having a solid product would help LC reach a wider audience. > > This has always been a consistent problem in LC, from v111 to v962. > Luckily we can usually work around bugs, but a solid LC would rock! > Time to reach a new LC generation.
LC Bugmageddon or Bugportunity?
Me, recently: > I don't have any big headaches, thank God! That's true; it's rare that I get stuck. I'm workaround-musclebound. :) But I do understand why people get headaches and get stuck. Hope I didn't sound aloof from the problems; just busy working around. It's not just features; it's LiveCode's level of quality/bugs! Only in the last few days, I've run across: - two, maybe three clipboard copy/paste bugs or deficiencies - a PDF bug or limitation - a field glitch, and a couple of other suspicious behaviors - oh yeah, and a hard crash (almost forget) So I'll recipe and search/report those right after meeting my deadline. Meanwhile, I see many old friends/old bugs still in the latest LC! Rule of thumb: if you try ANY new route in LC, usually there's a bug. When you use an old route, often still the same bug, or a new twist. I can handle that. It's where the "workaround muscles" really help! Rarely bothers me, unless there's a showstopper on a tight deadline. I even enjoy a good workaround session; it's what I do for a living. But when beginners and intermediate users run into LC bugs, it's tough. Confuses them to sort their own bugs from LC's, much less solving them. Who do bugs hurt most? Newbies, people on deadlines, and LC itself. I've helped many newbies and oldbies get past LC bugs and get unstuck. With various competition, being buggy won't help make the world LC. I've warned about quality for many years. New code should be good code! (Yes, my own addons still need updating: the proverbial speck & log. Although here the log usually derives from the speck! It's coming. I know this would sound better if my own stuff was finished first. But I must and will stay involved, and speak up, while doing that.) We all build on top of the LC layer: the proverbial sandy/solid ground. Your software. My addons. Your clients. My clients. The IDE. The ground we build upon is more crucial than any single thing we build. THE GOOD NEWS: There are tactics you can use to roll past bugs and soldier on! I'll be sharing some of those as soon as I write them up. Choice of dev tactics can really make or break a project. The key is how to leverage LC's strong points and avoid its weak points. That's the bright side, or "Bugportunity" of the situation. This can help coders survive and thrive in LC-land without headaches. To some extent, it can negate the effects of bugs and limitations. I had to adjust my own tactics for MORE LC bugs & LESS CK energy/health! I'm still not Speedy Gonzales yet, but it's getting better So that's why I decided to write again. To the frustrated, there's hope! I know we always hear the same mantras and see the same approaches. This is NOT stuff you've heard; I'm the anti-mantra: mostly original. Just need to finish writing them up, and I'll share. My increased involvement on this list is the first step toward releases. As I also mentioned recently, credit where due: LC fixes MANY bugs! If we look at # of bugs fixed, it's impressive. Problem is that there are many MORE bugs. One gets fixed, another added. So far I haven't noticed a big reduction in the # of bugs ADDED. We're mere mortals, so I suggest turning the tide by reducing NET bugs. Either way, whether LC stays buggy or improves, users can succeed! THE GLASS-HALF-BUGGY NEWS: But tactics are like an uber-bandaid; easy to forget about the injury. Later that can lead to further injury, infection, gangrene, etc. :) From there, the Apocalypse. That's the "Bugmageddon" half of my message. I saw a funny YouTube animal video comment: "Damn nature, you scary!" Likewise, sometimes "Wow LC, you pretty buggy!" It's part luck & habit. If you have experience and stick to what works, smooth sailing. And of course, often sailing on top of previous workarounds. But when you need something different - boom! Likely to hit an LC bug. Tactics help there, too. Leverage LC's strong points & good code to win. But LC still needs fewer bugs. Fixing one bug without adding another. We all help, but ultimately it's LC's job/decision to reduce LC's bugs. I do my part: I'll start reporting this latest bug batch ASAP. Not only that, I'll post resources on tactics & LC paradigm when I can. Along with addon updates and some next-gen tools! Good things coming. Other people, and LC Ltd themselves, have great stuff coming soon too. So it's an exciting time! But I hope LC Bugs are decimated soon. Having a solid product would help LC reach a wider audience. This has always been a consistent problem in LC, from v111 to v962. Luckily we can usually work around bugs, but a solid LC would rock! Time to reach a new LC generation. Tools & tactics help, bugs don't. BTW LC, thanks for fixing the PDF bug blacking out fields with columns. That, and several other recent fixes, have really made a difference!! But oh man, there are still a bunch. Back to the workarounds/reports Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Custom Software Development "Better Methods,
